Dusty's Muffler vs Brock Lesnar's Wang Sword Wrestling Thread

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Alright, so we've got Punk/Bryan set up for Over the Limit. This seems as good a time as any to ask the biggest question I've had for the past few months...

Why did Jericho come back?

We were all conditioned to think he had some grand plan, but it's ended up being a clusterfuck of vignettes that went nowhere, baffling booking decisions, and a light-up jacket. I mean, let's be fair, those vignettes that aired were pretty good. They were intriguing, setting up a character that, frankly, never appeared. Oh, and I'm talking about a Jericho persona there, not the 'her' that also never showed up. It's like they had some cool ideas for a series of videos, but never bothered to come up with anything after that.

So, he debuts and has a light-up jacket. He doesn't talk, which really gets people going. Some love it and think it's the most brilliant thing in years, but others despise it. Still, it gets people's attention. No one knows the point of this, but then he speaks. One line. End of the world, all that.

... and then the Rumble happened. To anyone watching the match, it becomes painfully clear that Sheamus is going to win. For ten minutes, these two guys battled, but the outcome seemed obvious. Was it a Russo-eque swerve? Was it planned? What the fuck was the end of the world as we know it? I'm inclined to believe it was the first option, only because it became pretty obvious that no one had bothered to write a storyline to bring a Punk/Jericho match about for Mania. Sure, those last two weeks of promos were decent, but the weeks immediately following the Rumble were just drifting.

The biggest gripe there, of course, is that he started talking. Once that happened, he instantly just became the same Jericho that had left, just with a light-up jacket. Then, he lost every big match. Everytime there was a chance to get some heat on him, he came up short. He lost the Rumble. He lost to Punk. He lost to Punk again. What should have been a great (albeit recycled) storyline was neutered because the crowd no longer thinks Jericho is going to win. The Punk/Bryan set-up seems to indicate that Punk/Jericho, as a story, is over.

So, again, I ask... what was the point? Was the past few months worth him returning? Has he hurt his 'brand', as it were, by having a disappointing run?

Or, is it a case of him not living up to entirely fan-created expectations? Did we expect too much? I'll speak for myself, but there also seemed to be a large portion of the IWC who assumed that Jericho was coming back because he had a great idea. Something different, something new. Something that wasn't just his heel persona with a light-up jacket. In fairness, his 2007 (2008?) return was awful, but most of that has been erased in people's minds by his amazing heel turn and run. Why did we expect something special this time? Those videos didn't help ease speculation. His non-verbal trolling didn't dispel the notion. His insistence online that people should shut up and just 'wait and see' certainly didn't dilute the thought process. But... there was nothing. It was last-run heel Jericho again, now with light-up action!

Anyway, sorry for the essay, but I've been thinking about this a lot. Am I the only one who doesn't really understand why he came back? Was I expecting too much? Or, maybe a better question is... is anyone *not* disappointed in how his return has gone? I'm honestly curious.

In his last return, a shitty couple of months was then erased by arguably the best work of his career. This time, though, his entire return is already halfway (or more) over. Is that enough time to turn this around? I really don't know. A bigger question is whether this was a misfire on Jericho's part, or was this just utterly derailed by WWE?
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']I didn't see it on the WWE web shop and I'd be pretty shocked if WWE bothered to get the rights to use the Crimson Ghost on a shirt, so I'm assuming it's just something Punk wore for that one match.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='JJSP']It's a shirt that Bridge 9 put out a while back. I think they've reprinted them a couple of times - they pop up on eBay from time to time.[/QUOTE]

Bridge 9 is capitalizing on the slight promotion of their shirt and has rereleased the shirt Punk was wearing its going for $15:

http://www.b9store.com/product/2592

resizer.php
 
I think they get a Bryan/Punk/Jericho triple threat going at the June or July PPV before he leaves.

To me the trolling is the entire gimmick now between the non-verbal stuff and then all of the CM Punk/alcohol tirades. Personally I think Jericho is at the point where he will always be considered a threat to win regardless of his win/loss record - though he should have won the Rumble just because it would have been easier to get the hype rolling for the match.
 
[quote name='007']Why did we expect something special this time? Those videos didn't help ease speculation. His non-verbal trolling didn't dispel the notion. His insistence online that people should shut up and just 'wait and see' certainly didn't dilute the thought process. But... there was nothing. It was last-run heel Jericho again, now with light-up action![/QUOTE]

Ever since Christian got...Christian'd...with the Big Gold Belt, anytime I read a wrestler say "just wait and see," they're really saying "maybe we'll come up with an awesome explanation, but for right now we ain't got squat."

I don't know that Jericho's been a disappointment. His angle w/ Punk was solid, and the matches were very good, I hear (I still haven't seen either).

Jericho seemed to intimate that he would reinvent himself, and he didn't - that might be the source of disappointment. I can grant you that. The "End of the World" vignettes didn't really pan out, and that is indeed a source of frustration, sure. WWE wouldn't be much different right now if Jericho hadn't returned at all - and that can be a peculiar thing to wrap your mind around.
 
[quote name='007']
Alright, so we've got Punk/Bryan set up for Over the Limit. This seems as good a time as any to ask the biggest question I've had for the past few months...

Why did Jericho come back?

We were all conditioned to think he had some grand plan, but it's ended up being a clusterfuck of vignettes that went nowhere, baffling booking decisions, and a light-up jacket. I mean, let's be fair, those vignettes that aired were pretty good. They were intriguing, setting up a character that, frankly, never appeared. Oh, and I'm talking about a Jericho persona there, not the 'her' that also never showed up. It's like they had some cool ideas for a series of videos, but never bothered to come up with anything after that.

So, he debuts and has a light-up jacket. He doesn't talk, which really gets people going. Some love it and think it's the most brilliant thing in years, but others despise it. Still, it gets people's attention. No one knows the point of this, but then he speaks. One line. End of the world, all that.

... and then the Rumble happened. To anyone watching the match, it becomes painfully clear that Sheamus is going to win. For ten minutes, these two guys battled, but the outcome seemed obvious. Was it a Russo-eque swerve? Was it planned? What the fuck was the end of the world as we know it? I'm inclined to believe it was the first option, only because it became pretty obvious that no one had bothered to write a storyline to bring a Punk/Jericho match about for Mania. Sure, those last two weeks of promos were decent, but the weeks immediately following the Rumble were just drifting.

The biggest gripe there, of course, is that he started talking. Once that happened, he instantly just became the same Jericho that had left, just with a light-up jacket. Then, he lost every big match. Everytime there was a chance to get some heat on him, he came up short. He lost the Rumble. He lost to Punk. He lost to Punk again. What should have been a great (albeit recycled) storyline was neutered because the crowd no longer thinks Jericho is going to win. The Punk/Bryan set-up seems to indicate that Punk/Jericho, as a story, is over.

So, again, I ask... what was the point? Was the past few months worth him returning? Has he hurt his 'brand', as it were, by having a disappointing run?

Or, is it a case of him not living up to entirely fan-created expectations? Did we expect too much? I'll speak for myself, but there also seemed to be a large portion of the IWC who assumed that Jericho was coming back because he had a great idea. Something different, something new. Something that wasn't just his heel persona with a light-up jacket. In fairness, his 2007 (2008?) return was awful, but most of that has been erased in people's minds by his amazing heel turn and run. Why did we expect something special this time? Those videos didn't help ease speculation. His non-verbal trolling didn't dispel the notion. His insistence online that people should shut up and just 'wait and see' certainly didn't dilute the thought process. But... there was nothing. It was last-run heel Jericho again, now with light-up action!

Anyway, sorry for the essay, but I've been thinking about this a lot. Am I the only one who doesn't really understand why he came back? Was I expecting too much? Or, maybe a better question is... is anyone *not* disappointed in how his return has gone? I'm honestly curious.

In his last return, a shitty couple of months was then erased by arguably the best work of his career. This time, though, his entire return is already halfway (or more) over. Is that enough time to turn this around? I really don't know. A bigger question is whether this was a misfire on Jericho's part, or was this just utterly derailed by WWE?
[/QUOTE]

The simple reason he came back is because of the Wrestlemania paycheck. He stuck around because he can have good matches and the company needs someone like that on the payroll. The only other guy that could possibly deliver on that count is Dolph Ziggler and he can't talk worth a damn.

Alternatively, this run seems to a passing of torch by Chris Jericho. I know a lot of people want him to pick up where he left off during his last run, but Chris Jericho is now 41 years old. His time in the ring as a top tier competitor is almost over and he knows it. Edge went out at 38. Shawn Michaels at 45. HHH is semi-retired at 42. Undertaker is semi-retired at 47.

In the same way guys like Sgt. Slaughter and Roddy Piper put over "The Legend Killer" Randy Orton, Chris Jericho is putting over CM Punk. There are no other legitimate guys at this point for Punk to feud with and gain credibility. Take Jericho out of the equation and who else is left? Kane? Mark Henry?

Jericho will probably play the role Shawn Michaels played in his final two years in the WWE. Prior to retirement, HBK put over Jericho, Batista, Undertaker, Cody Rhodes, Ted DiBiase Jr., Miz, and The Big Show on his way out of the ring. Jericho so far has put over Sheamus and CM Punk on his road back to Fozzy. At some point between now and leaving, he'll probably put over Daniel Bryan.

The most important thing about this is that a lot of people haven't seen this for what it is, and I really kind of wish that Jericho got the credit for what he's doing. He's largely had the thankless role of consistently being the professional that goes out on his back to get guys over. We don't want to see that kind of Chris Jericho. We want to see the know-it-all whose got it all figured out. The man of 1004 holds. But Jericho knows Jericho best and I think he knows his time is almost up. With all that said, it only increases my respect for the guy.
 
In Jericho's first book (I think it was) he talked about how he lost that "Career" match against Cena in (I think) 2005 which basically retired Jericho for a long time.

People were upset with the WWE because to them, it seemed like a slight to Jericho. In his book, Jericho said that being dragged out of the building, crying, looking like a bitch was exactly the way he wanted it to go because he was the heel in the feud.

That speaks volumes to me about his character and his willingness to set ego aside for the greater good of the company and in that particular case, Cena.

I guess in the end, I'm happy because Jericho is happy. He's long since made his peace with life and pro-wrestling and anything he contributes at this point, I think he's doing simply because he genuinely wants to.
 
[quote name='Golden Idol']The simple reason he came back is because of the Wrestlemania paycheck. He stuck around because he can have good matches and the company needs someone like that on the payroll. The only other guy that could possibly deliver on that count is Dolph Ziggler and he can't talk worth a damn.
[/QUOTE]

Have you ever seen him on Zack Ryder's youtube show? Dude is charismatic as hell, quick-witted, and can cut a hell of a promo. If WWE would just let the guy be himself I think he'd be crazy over.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Ever since Christian got...Christian'd...with the Big Gold Belt, anytime I read a wrestler say "just wait and see," they're really saying "maybe we'll come up with an awesome explanation, but for right now we ain't got squat." [/QUOTE]

To address that top point... exactly. I think the bottom line is that I held Jericho to a higher standard. Most of what he does/did generally has some kind of purpose behind it, but most of the build-up just seemed like he was just jerking off to cool ideas. The videos and trolling were great ideas, but not having anything behind them was just... disappointing.

[quote name='Golden Idol']
Alternatively, this run seems to a passing of torch by Chris Jericho. I know a lot of people want him to pick up where he left off during his last run, but Chris Jericho is now 41 years old. His time in the ring as a top tier competitor is almost over and he knows it. Edge went out at 38. Shawn Michaels at 45. HHH is semi-retired at 42. Undertaker is semi-retired at 47.


The most important thing about this is that a lot of people haven't seen this for what it is, and I really kind of wish that Jericho got the credit for what he's doing. He's largely had the thankless role of consistently being the professional that goes out on his back to get guys over. We don't want to see that kind of Chris Jericho. We want to see the know-it-all whose got it all figured out. The man of 1004 holds. But Jericho knows Jericho best and I think he knows his time is almost up. With all that said, it only increases my respect for the guy.[/QUOTE]

See, I think the problem is that there *is* an acknowledgement of what Jericho does, which is why I've been disappointed with this. Like I said above, there always seemed like there was a focus or a goal to what he did. To remove that end marker just makes it feel like every other scattershot WWE idea.

Jericho is, effectively, a 'legend' at this point. The problem with that, though, is that a scrappy face legend (HBK) can do job after job after job without really losing much credibility. In this run, Jericho's inability to put nearly anyone away has killed it for me. The genesis of the Punk/Jericho feud was them bickering over being the 'best in the world', but Jericho wasn't showing any reason for people to back that. As a heel, it's ridiculously important to look like a viable threat, which is the biggest fucking problem WWE has now. Sure, Punk gets over, but Jericho desperately needed to win the Rumble or one of the two Punk matches. Even with the status afforded him, the booking needs to reflect the story, especially with a heel character. WWE, however, seems to have completely forgotten how to do that.



[quote name='Halo05']In Jericho's first book (I think it was) he talked about how he lost that "Career" match against Cena in (I think) 2005 which basically retired Jericho for a long time.

People were upset with the WWE because to them, it seemed like a slight to Jericho. In his book, Jericho said that being dragged out of the building, crying, looking like a bitch was exactly the way he wanted it to go because he was the heel in the feud.

That speaks volumes to me about his character and his willingness to set ego aside for the greater good of the company and in that particular case, Cena. [/QUOTE]

As a continuation of my last comments... yeah, I respect Jericho for understanding the 'right' way of doing things. My issue, though, is that I haven't seen that anywhere in this storyline. Getting Cena over by going out kicking and screaming is one thing, but coming back and portraying yourself as a force to be reckoned with while losing every goddamned match is another. I expect people will disagree with this, but I don't feel that this whole thing has gotten Punk over any more than he already was.

That, I guess, is the basic thrust of my argument... it's not the 'why' of him coming back, but the fact that none of it, from a storyline OR business standpoint, has made any sense. Even the best parts of this storyline are lifted from pre-WWE Punk storylines, so he can't even get credit for that. We were lead to believe that there was a plan for his return, but every twist indicates that it simply wasn't the case.

I'm not calling for everyone to suddenly classify this run as a 'failure', but I simply wanted to get some thoughts on a run that has just baffled me. I can't decide whether WWE failed Jericho, Jericho failed Jericho, or Jericho simply failed the completely made-up expectations I had in my mind.
 
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