Heavy Rain Discussion Thread
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anathema728
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Don't know why people interested in Heavy Rain didn't play this near release date, and finish within 2-3 days to avoid spoilers. Heck there were even spoiler before the game came out.
I easily bought the game for $45 after discover promo, played it, beat it in 2 days, and sold it on the same day I beat it on craigslist for $45.
Heck, I could have sold it for $50, but I'm nice.
@friskytanuki: he repeated it because others asked, he used spoiler tags didn't he? shouldn't be reading spoilers if you haven't finished the game.
I easily bought the game for $45 after discover promo, played it, beat it in 2 days, and sold it on the same day I beat it on craigslist for $45.
Heck, I could have sold it for $50, but I'm nice.
@friskytanuki: he repeated it because others asked, he used spoiler tags didn't he? shouldn't be reading spoilers if you haven't finished the game.
panzerfaust
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[quote name='PrinnyOtaku']The way the story was told is only possible in a game, and it's not a good way to tell a story by any means. The GAME was fun, entertaining. Of course you ~can~ make sense of everything in the game and fit it into the story somehow, but that doesn't mean it was a good story, or told well for that matter.
I'm not going to put up spoiler tags and have page-long debates about what worked and what didn't. Bottom line is, for ME, I didn't buy the story. It wasn't especially clever, it was made for a game. Simple. You can convince yourself that it was good, a masterpiece, I don't really care. But the general consensus is that the plot isn't the most amazing thing ever. It does do its job though.[/QUOTE]
Not that I disagree but stop with the "it was made for a game" nonsense. It's like you're implying they all inherently have inferior narratives.
I'm not going to put up spoiler tags and have page-long debates about what worked and what didn't. Bottom line is, for ME, I didn't buy the story. It wasn't especially clever, it was made for a game. Simple. You can convince yourself that it was good, a masterpiece, I don't really care. But the general consensus is that the plot isn't the most amazing thing ever. It does do its job though.[/QUOTE]
Not that I disagree but stop with the "it was made for a game" nonsense. It's like you're implying they all inherently have inferior narratives.
n8rockerasu
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[quote name='PrinnyOtaku']The way the story was told is only possible in a game, and it's not a good way to tell a story by any means. The GAME was fun, entertaining. Of course you ~can~ make sense of everything in the game and fit it into the story somehow, but that doesn't mean it was a good story, or told well for that matter.
I'm not going to put up spoiler tags and have page-long debates about what worked and what didn't. Bottom line is, for ME, I didn't buy the story. It wasn't especially clever, it was made for a game. Simple. You can convince yourself that it was good, a masterpiece, I don't really care. But the general consensus is that the plot isn't the most amazing thing ever. It does do its job though.[/QUOTE]
Yes, so your OPINION is that the story wasn't very good. I don't see how that has anything to do with it being poorly written though. If it doesn't have any huge holes and by your own admission "you can make sense of everything in the game and fit it into the story somehow", I don't see how there's anything wrong with it...outside of personal preference. I don't even think it's the most creative or original plotline ever. But it's no worse than any other movie plot that Hollywood spits out. What were you people expecting? Citizen Kane?
I'm not going to put up spoiler tags and have page-long debates about what worked and what didn't. Bottom line is, for ME, I didn't buy the story. It wasn't especially clever, it was made for a game. Simple. You can convince yourself that it was good, a masterpiece, I don't really care. But the general consensus is that the plot isn't the most amazing thing ever. It does do its job though.[/QUOTE]
Yes, so your OPINION is that the story wasn't very good. I don't see how that has anything to do with it being poorly written though. If it doesn't have any huge holes and by your own admission "you can make sense of everything in the game and fit it into the story somehow", I don't see how there's anything wrong with it...outside of personal preference. I don't even think it's the most creative or original plotline ever. But it's no worse than any other movie plot that Hollywood spits out. What were you people expecting? Citizen Kane?
Soodmeg
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Another thing you can add to the useless plot devices of heavy rain pile is....
Why does scott have asthma?They set it up like it was going to play some type of role in the game and it was completely forgotten 2 seconds after it was mentioned.
He states that he asthma acts up when it rains.......it rains non stop in the city. They even go so far as to have scott suffer what looks to be a pretty harsh attack but then never mention it again. (no, showing random inhalers around doesnt cut it after 2nd grade lit.)
And for a fat guy with asthma, he can run, jump, fight, swim, crawl and drag with the best of them.
He states that he asthma acts up when it rains.......it rains non stop in the city. They even go so far as to have scott suffer what looks to be a pretty harsh attack but then never mention it again. (no, showing random inhalers around doesnt cut it after 2nd grade lit.)
And for a fat guy with asthma, he can run, jump, fight, swim, crawl and drag with the best of them.
[quote name='Soodmeg']Another thing you can add to the useless plot devices of heavy rain pile is....
[/QUOTE]
My question to you about that is...
Why does scott have asthma?They set it up like it was going to play some type of role in the game and it was completely forgotten 2 seconds after it was mentioned.
He states that he asthma acts up when it rains.......it rains non stop in the city. They even go so far as to have scott suffer what looks to be a pretty harsh attack but then never mention it again. (no, showing random inhalers around doesnt cut it after 2nd grade lit.)
And for a fat guy with asthma, he can run, jump, fight, swim, crawl and drag with the best of them.
He states that he asthma acts up when it rains.......it rains non stop in the city. They even go so far as to have scott suffer what looks to be a pretty harsh attack but then never mention it again. (no, showing random inhalers around doesnt cut it after 2nd grade lit.)
And for a fat guy with asthma, he can run, jump, fight, swim, crawl and drag with the best of them.
My question to you about that is...
Was it really caused by the rain, or by stress? He just waded into the home of one of his victims' mothers and then right after he has an attack.
FriskyTanuki
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Every character has a flaw (Norman's drug problem, Madison's insomnia, Ethan's blackouts, and Scott's asthma) and some come into play more often than others.
They weren't saying he never had another asthma attack, but that you don't see it any more during his scenes. I think the last you see of it was when he stole the asthma inhaler he got during the robbery scene.
anathema728
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[quote name='PrinnyOtaku']Eh, to me Heavy Rain was a very impressive technical achievement[/QUOTE]
In what sense? In the sense that it's the first game of it's genre on this generation of consoles? A technical achievement to me is half life 2 incorporating a pretty heft physics engine, or wipeout HD maintaining 60fps by dropping screen resolution from 1080p to as low as 1280x1024. Or ratchet and clank crack in time maintaining frame rate (somewhat) in huge fights while auto saving.
What barriers did Heavy Rain overcome?
edit: haha @friskytanuki:haha thanks for pointing that out maybe they were too distraught by the scene
In what sense? In the sense that it's the first game of it's genre on this generation of consoles? A technical achievement to me is half life 2 incorporating a pretty heft physics engine, or wipeout HD maintaining 60fps by dropping screen resolution from 1080p to as low as 1280x1024. Or ratchet and clank crack in time maintaining frame rate (somewhat) in huge fights while auto saving.
What barriers did Heavy Rain overcome?
edit: haha @friskytanuki:haha thanks for pointing that out maybe they were too distraught by the scene
Soodmeg
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[quote name='NamPaehc']My question to you about that is...
[/QUOTE]
Was it really caused by the rain, or by stress? He just waded into the home of one of his victims' mothers and then right after he has an attack.
How are you making that assumption? His internal dialogue says that his asthma attack are triggered by rain numerous times. So why are you taking the liberty to simply change what is written so that it makes more sense?
You see, I am trying my hardest to take what the game has presented to me and form a logical progression of a story. Some of you seem to be taking that same data and coming up with completely off the way theories that they game never presented.
Dont get me wrong, I understand what you mean....but I am not the one that wrote that he suffers from asthma and then made a point to focus on it.
You see, I am trying my hardest to take what the game has presented to me and form a logical progression of a story. Some of you seem to be taking that same data and coming up with completely off the way theories that they game never presented.
Dont get me wrong, I understand what you mean....but I am not the one that wrote that he suffers from asthma and then made a point to focus on it.
[quote name='Soodmeg']
[/QUOTE]
How are you making that assumption? His internal dialogue says that his asthma attack are triggered by rain numerous times. So why are you taking the liberty to simply change what is written so that it makes more sense?
You see, I am trying my hardest to take what the game has presented to me and form a logical progression of a story. Some of you seem to be taking that same data and coming up with completely off the way theories that they game never presented.
Dont get me wrong, I understand what you mean....but I am not the one that wrote that he suffers from asthma and then made a point to focus on it.
You see, I am trying my hardest to take what the game has presented to me and form a logical progression of a story. Some of you seem to be taking that same data and coming up with completely off the way theories that they game never presented.
Dont get me wrong, I understand what you mean....but I am not the one that wrote that he suffers from asthma and then made a point to focus on it.
I was asking because I don't remember that. I remember him saying something to that effect to the store owner though. At the end of the game I thought "oh, that is why he was having a panic attack, because of what he did to that woman."
Soodmeg
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Thats a good point Frisky but in the grand scheme of the story what does any of that mean?
That people have flaws? We all know that already.
When does Madison's insomnia ever really play a role in the game...other than being a excuse for
The game doesnt show her any more sleep deprived than any of the other players.
This is a perfect example of how horrid writing and pointless scenes could have been turned into something great.
That people have flaws? We all know that already.
When does Madison's insomnia ever really play a role in the game...other than being a excuse for
being at the hotel to meet ethan.
This is a perfect example of how horrid writing and pointless scenes could have been turned into something great.
Since, she suffers from insomnia, after lets say the 2 or 3rd trail (2 or 3 days I think) she should have started suffering from hallucinations or something. That would have linked her flaw with the story.
Another thing that irks me about the game was the fact that each player seems to instantly forget what just happens to them in a previous scene. A 20 something journalist murders a guy in self defense after being drugged and tied down and her only response is...."I am still shook up from the doctor," as she goes to shake her ass in front of a night club owner.
Like one review I read said, in a game that is publicized as such a awe inspiring story we deserve more than just a re-skinning of the players in different scenes. Ethan does a good job in changing through out the story but everyone else just floats through like nothing ever happens.
Another thing that irks me about the game was the fact that each player seems to instantly forget what just happens to them in a previous scene. A 20 something journalist murders a guy in self defense after being drugged and tied down and her only response is...."I am still shook up from the doctor," as she goes to shake her ass in front of a night club owner.
Like one review I read said, in a game that is publicized as such a awe inspiring story we deserve more than just a re-skinning of the players in different scenes. Ethan does a good job in changing through out the story but everyone else just floats through like nothing ever happens.
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Soodmeg
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[quote name='NamPaehc']
[/QUOTE]
I was asking because I don't remember that. I remember him saying something to that effect to the store owner though. At the end of the game I thought "oh, that is why he was having a panic attack, because of what he did to that woman."
That actually sounds good and would make sense if only the game made any hint that it was the case. Does the game hint at him having panic attacks when he is around women?
I guess I have a problem with advertising a something as the best story/plot but then the user ends up having to make up 40% of the content themselves.
I guess I have a problem with advertising a something as the best story/plot but then the user ends up having to make up 40% of the content themselves.
FriskyTanuki
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[quote name='Soodmeg']Thats a good point Frisky but in the grand scheme of the story what does any of that mean?
That people have flaws? We all know that already.
When does Madison's insomnia ever really play a role in the game...other than being a excuse for
The game doesnt show her any more sleep deprived than any of the other players.
This is a perfect example of how horrid writing and pointless scenes could have been turned into something great.
Since, she suffers from insomnia, after lets say the 2 or 3rd trail (2 or 3 days I think) she should have started suffering from hallucinations or something. That would have linked her flaw with the story.
[/QUOTE]
That people have flaws? We all know that already.
When does Madison's insomnia ever really play a role in the game...other than being a excuse for
being at the hotel to meet ethan.
This is a perfect example of how horrid writing and pointless scenes could have been turned into something great.
Since, she suffers from insomnia, after lets say the 2 or 3rd trail (2 or 3 days I think) she should have started suffering from hallucinations or something. That would have linked her flaw with the story.
Another thing that irks me about the game was the fact that each player seems to instantly forget what just happens to them in a previous scene. A 20 something journalist murders a guy in self defense after being drugged and tied down and her only response is...."I am still shook up from the doctor," as she goes to shake her ass in front of a night club owner.
Like one review I read said, in a game that is publicized as such a awe inspiring story we deserve more than just a re-skinning of the players in different scenes. Ethan does a good job in changing through out the story but everyone else just floats through like nothing ever happens.
Like one review I read said, in a game that is publicized as such a awe inspiring story we deserve more than just a re-skinning of the players in different scenes. Ethan does a good job in changing through out the story but everyone else just floats through like nothing ever happens.
Her presence at the motel is a huge part of the story since she helps with his recovery, a few of his escapes, and his safety at the end, so checking in because of the hallucination she has in her first scene is a major part of the story. The whole reason she goes there is because she says it helps her sleep better, so wouldn't her hallucinations continuing after staying there go against her entire reasoning for going there? Sounds like your complaint that Scott doesn't suffer from any more asthma attacks despite saying rain is a cause of his asthma attacks early on.
These aren't binary conditions, so I didn't need to be bashed in the head about them all throughout the game because it doesn't really add much of anything to their characters or the story to see them continue to suffer from them. Sure, Scott could have asthma attacks during fights or whenever he goes outside, but would that change anything for you?
Should Madison be unable to do the Paco scene if you kill the doctor? She has messed up hallucinations about being attacked by multiple robbers and then has her throat slit, so she's constantly dealing with those kinds of images. It's not like she's a weakling that lets those kinds of things make her unable to do anything from that point on.
These aren't binary conditions, so I didn't need to be bashed in the head about them all throughout the game because it doesn't really add much of anything to their characters or the story to see them continue to suffer from them. Sure, Scott could have asthma attacks during fights or whenever he goes outside, but would that change anything for you?
Should Madison be unable to do the Paco scene if you kill the doctor? She has messed up hallucinations about being attacked by multiple robbers and then has her throat slit, so she's constantly dealing with those kinds of images. It's not like she's a weakling that lets those kinds of things make her unable to do anything from that point on.
It seems like the Creator may have originally wanted to make it so that any of the characters could potentally be the Origami killer based on the actions you do in game, however boged by the shear amount of of plot branches he decided to narrow it down to only 1 possible outcome with many plot holes in between. This script was definatly edited SEVERAL TIMES idk what david cage was thinking originally. I wonder what the dlc will add, it might just confuse us even more.
sendme
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[quote name='n8rockerasu']Again, I'm surprised people get hung up on these little things.
I also don't understand the people making blanket statements that "the story is nonsense". Care to back that up with an explanation at all? What didn't you like? What didn't make sense to you?[/QUOTE]
I forgot about that scene. That clears thins up for me now. It doesn't bother me anymore.
[quote name='n4styn4t3']I thought the
[/QUOTE]
I liked it. I thought they did it better. Hell after the first one the rest have all went down hill.
Also about
Maybe future DLC will clear things up. However some of you are looking to much into things. Sure it could have been done better. Hell I thought it was better then most movies that are in theaters.
He does it during the brief cutscene when Madison is looking at the music box. You're not controlling anybody during this part, and you're only watching Madison. Yes, it's done intentionally to throw you off the scent, but it's still completely plausible.
I also don't understand the people making blanket statements that "the story is nonsense". Care to back that up with an explanation at all? What didn't you like? What didn't make sense to you?[/QUOTE]
I forgot about that scene. That clears thins up for me now. It doesn't bother me anymore.
[quote name='n4styn4t3']I thought the
blatant rip-off of Saw was pretty stupid too.
I liked it. I thought they did it better. Hell after the first one the rest have all went down hill.
Also about
Scott's asthma, he could have it all wrong. He has it when it rains however when it rains is when he kills the kids. So maybe he thinks it is due to the rain but it is really due to seeing the parents of the kids that he killed. Haven't any of you ever had a cold or somthing that you thought was something else or caused by something then went and got it checked to find out you were wrong?
Maybe future DLC will clear things up. However some of you are looking to much into things. Sure it could have been done better. Hell I thought it was better then most movies that are in theaters.
Soodmeg
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[quote name='FriskyTanuki']
[/QUOTE]
Her presence at the motel is a huge part of the story since she helps with his recovery, a few of his escapes, and his safety at the end, so checking in because of the hallucination she has in her first scene is a major part of the story. The whole reason she goes there is because she says it helps her sleep better, so wouldn't her hallucinations continuing after staying there go against her entire reasoning for going there? Sounds like your complaint that Scott doesn't suffer from any more asthma attacks despite saying rain is a cause of his asthma attacks early on.
These aren't binary conditions, so I didn't need to be bashed in the head about them all throughout the game because it doesn't really add much of anything to their characters or the story to see them continue to suffer from them. Sure, Scott could have asthma attacks during fights or whenever he goes outside, but would that change anything for you?
Should Madison be unable to do the Paco scene if you kill the doctor? She has messed up hallucinations about being attacked by multiple robbers and then has her throat slit, so she's constantly dealing with those kinds of images. It's not like she's a weakling that lets those kinds of things make her unable to do anything from that point on.
These aren't binary conditions, so I didn't need to be bashed in the head about them all throughout the game because it doesn't really add much of anything to their characters or the story to see them continue to suffer from them. Sure, Scott could have asthma attacks during fights or whenever he goes outside, but would that change anything for you?
Should Madison be unable to do the Paco scene if you kill the doctor? She has messed up hallucinations about being attacked by multiple robbers and then has her throat slit, so she's constantly dealing with those kinds of images. It's not like she's a weakling that lets those kinds of things make her unable to do anything from that point on.
Yes, yes it would. It would mean that they had a purpose for everything they did in the game. (you know like a good story) It would mean scene had contained something that linked its self to scene E, which also contains something that links itself to scene H. That is what separates good for bad. This isnt The Simpson's, where the first 10 min have nothing to do with the last 20. This is a whodunit...the story needs to progress in a logical and interesting way.
Could you imagine if they never link Lenard Shelby memory loss to anything else in Momento? If it was just there because it sounded cool but the rest of the movie ignored it.
Also, I am a little sick of every pro debate for the game to boil down to, "Well...I didnt need for the game to tell me things," or they make up a complete scenario that are not even presented in the game.
For example, Norman Jayden. This story arc is actually done pretty well as far has linking his problem through out the game. You know that he is addicted too something, you have a tangible effect on how much of the blue stuff he snorts through out the game which effects how his ending is presented.
So if they did it for him why cant they do it for everyone else? And I admit right now that I might be missing the links for the other players......but so are you and everyone else because that, "I didnt need the game to link it," strawman doesnt cut it.
Could you imagine if they never link Lenard Shelby memory loss to anything else in Momento? If it was just there because it sounded cool but the rest of the movie ignored it.
Also, I am a little sick of every pro debate for the game to boil down to, "Well...I didnt need for the game to tell me things," or they make up a complete scenario that are not even presented in the game.
For example, Norman Jayden. This story arc is actually done pretty well as far has linking his problem through out the game. You know that he is addicted too something, you have a tangible effect on how much of the blue stuff he snorts through out the game which effects how his ending is presented.
So if they did it for him why cant they do it for everyone else? And I admit right now that I might be missing the links for the other players......but so are you and everyone else because that, "I didnt need the game to link it," strawman doesnt cut it.
Soodmeg
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This isnt my comment, I just copy and pasted Hanovers comment to more explain my position.
"I love how people basically write short stories in order to fill in the gaps. Usually these stories have nothing to do with anything we were actually shown or hinted at in the game. If I wanted to just have to assume everything, I guess I should have saved $60 and made my own story up. With this reasoning every film and every game every made is now a masterpiece.
The biggest problem is we have characters who hide things from other characters AND the player. Yet we have to play all of the characters. For example, they wrote this character of a journalist, yet there is conveniently nothing in her apartment that would give us any clue. That is such a cheat and unnatural. If she's got a studio apartment, she's going to have some sort of at-home workspace, or a computer or a camera or something to tell us she's a journalist...but yet, that is a twist that doesnt come later. So they create this completely unnatural space just to hide this mystery from the player. How stupid.
Had we been able to know that Madison ws a journalist from the beginning, she could have been at the press conference...and that would fill in the gap between her and the FBI agent.
Another mistake was having Ethan wake up with an Origami figure in his hand..even if he didnt have that in his hand, it still would have made him suspicious and we wouldnt have to ask how that could have possibly happened.
The dumbest thing Cage did was make the killer a playable character! How stupid were they to make it so we get to play a killer who doesnt seem to realize he's the killer? If they were going to do that, then they should have just made Ethan the killer since at least we would have no idea what we did in the blackouts.
This feels like the story was written not knowing who the killer was, but then they inserted the killer at the end, re-writing parts of the story in a way so it would make some sort of sense. Then you add the fact that they have to do it so it remains a mystery even though we get to play the killer..it just didn't work.
Fortunately 90% of the game was fun...the last 10% was completely disappointing. Heavy Rain could have been a masterpiece, but yet again, Cage dropped the ball in the last part of the story."
- Hanover
The biggest problem is we have characters who hide things from other characters AND the player. Yet we have to play all of the characters. For example, they wrote this character of a journalist, yet there is conveniently nothing in her apartment that would give us any clue. That is such a cheat and unnatural. If she's got a studio apartment, she's going to have some sort of at-home workspace, or a computer or a camera or something to tell us she's a journalist...but yet, that is a twist that doesnt come later. So they create this completely unnatural space just to hide this mystery from the player. How stupid.
Had we been able to know that Madison ws a journalist from the beginning, she could have been at the press conference...and that would fill in the gap between her and the FBI agent.
Another mistake was having Ethan wake up with an Origami figure in his hand..even if he didnt have that in his hand, it still would have made him suspicious and we wouldnt have to ask how that could have possibly happened.
The dumbest thing Cage did was make the killer a playable character! How stupid were they to make it so we get to play a killer who doesnt seem to realize he's the killer? If they were going to do that, then they should have just made Ethan the killer since at least we would have no idea what we did in the blackouts.
This feels like the story was written not knowing who the killer was, but then they inserted the killer at the end, re-writing parts of the story in a way so it would make some sort of sense. Then you add the fact that they have to do it so it remains a mystery even though we get to play the killer..it just didn't work.
Fortunately 90% of the game was fun...the last 10% was completely disappointing. Heavy Rain could have been a masterpiece, but yet again, Cage dropped the ball in the last part of the story."
- Hanover
[quote name='Soodmeg']Another thing you can add to the useless plot devices of heavy rain pile is....
[/QUOTE]
Why does scott have asthma?They set it up like it was going to play some type of role in the game and it was completely forgotten 2 seconds after it was mentioned.
He states that he asthma acts up when it rains.......it rains non stop in the city. They even go so far as to have scott suffer what looks to be a pretty harsh attack but then never mention it again. (no, showing random inhalers around doesnt cut it after 2nd grade lit.)
And for a fat guy with asthma, he can run, jump, fight, swim, crawl and drag with the best of them.
He states that he asthma acts up when it rains.......it rains non stop in the city. They even go so far as to have scott suffer what looks to be a pretty harsh attack but then never mention it again. (no, showing random inhalers around doesnt cut it after 2nd grade lit.)
And for a fat guy with asthma, he can run, jump, fight, swim, crawl and drag with the best of them.
You are just flat out lying now.
Does the game need to tell you everything. Cant you just assume he uses his inhaler off screen during the game. One scene he goes to buy an inhaler. You press the L2? button to read his thoughts throughout the whole game and he is mentioning asthma and the rain. Plus some of the scenes are of him in a warm dry place. Get over it.
Quit being a cry baby. I am sorry the whole game didn't point out every 5 seconds of Scott having an Asthma attack
Does the game need to tell you everything. Cant you just assume he uses his inhaler off screen during the game. One scene he goes to buy an inhaler. You press the L2? button to read his thoughts throughout the whole game and he is mentioning asthma and the rain. Plus some of the scenes are of him in a warm dry place. Get over it.
Quit being a cry baby. I am sorry the whole game didn't point out every 5 seconds of Scott having an Asthma attack
[quote name='Soodmeg']This isnt my comment, I just copy and pasted Hanovers comment to more explain my position.
[/QUOTE]
And the majority of us loved the ending. I guess 90 percent of us are idiots. For a game that you "hate", you sure do spend a good amount of time dissecting it. I played the majority of the game 2 scenes at a time because I didn't want to rush through it. I would play 15-20 minutes here and there. The last 90 minutes to 2 hours of the game I played in one sitting because I loved the ending and the twist.
"I love how people basically write short stories in order to fill in the gaps. Usually these stories have nothing to do with anything we were actually shown or hinted at in the game. If I wanted to just have to assume everything, I guess I should have saved $60 and made my own story up. With this reasoning every film and every game every made is now a masterpiece.
The biggest problem is we have characters who hide things from other characters AND the player. Yet we have to play all of the characters. For example, they wrote this character of a journalist, yet there is conveniently nothing in her apartment that would give us any clue. That is such a cheat and unnatural. If she's got a studio apartment, she's going to have some sort of at-home workspace, or a computer or a camera or something to tell us she's a journalist...but yet, that is a twist that doesnt come later. So they create this completely unnatural space just to hide this mystery from the player. How stupid.
Had we been able to know that Madison ws a journalist from the beginning, she could have been at the press conference...and that would fill in the gap between her and the FBI agent.
Another mistake was having Ethan wake up with an Origami figure in his hand..even if he didnt have that in his hand, it still would have made him suspicious and we wouldnt have to ask how that could have possibly happened.
The dumbest thing Cage did was make the killer a playable character! How stupid were they to make it so we get to play a killer who doesnt seem to realize he's the killer? If they were going to do that, then they should have just made Ethan the killer since at least we would have no idea what we did in the blackouts.
This feels like the story was written not knowing who the killer was, but then they inserted the killer at the end, re-writing parts of the story in a way so it would make some sort of sense. Then you add the fact that they have to do it so it remains a mystery even though we get to play the killer..it just didn't work.
Fortunately 90% of the game was fun...the last 10% was completely disappointing. Heavy Rain could have been a masterpiece, but yet again, Cage dropped the ball in the last part of the story."
- Hanover
The biggest problem is we have characters who hide things from other characters AND the player. Yet we have to play all of the characters. For example, they wrote this character of a journalist, yet there is conveniently nothing in her apartment that would give us any clue. That is such a cheat and unnatural. If she's got a studio apartment, she's going to have some sort of at-home workspace, or a computer or a camera or something to tell us she's a journalist...but yet, that is a twist that doesnt come later. So they create this completely unnatural space just to hide this mystery from the player. How stupid.
Had we been able to know that Madison ws a journalist from the beginning, she could have been at the press conference...and that would fill in the gap between her and the FBI agent.
Another mistake was having Ethan wake up with an Origami figure in his hand..even if he didnt have that in his hand, it still would have made him suspicious and we wouldnt have to ask how that could have possibly happened.
The dumbest thing Cage did was make the killer a playable character! How stupid were they to make it so we get to play a killer who doesnt seem to realize he's the killer? If they were going to do that, then they should have just made Ethan the killer since at least we would have no idea what we did in the blackouts.
This feels like the story was written not knowing who the killer was, but then they inserted the killer at the end, re-writing parts of the story in a way so it would make some sort of sense. Then you add the fact that they have to do it so it remains a mystery even though we get to play the killer..it just didn't work.
Fortunately 90% of the game was fun...the last 10% was completely disappointing. Heavy Rain could have been a masterpiece, but yet again, Cage dropped the ball in the last part of the story."
- Hanover
And the majority of us loved the ending. I guess 90 percent of us are idiots. For a game that you "hate", you sure do spend a good amount of time dissecting it. I played the majority of the game 2 scenes at a time because I didn't want to rush through it. I would play 15-20 minutes here and there. The last 90 minutes to 2 hours of the game I played in one sitting because I loved the ending and the twist.
Soodmeg
CAGiversary!
aaahhh, come of it. Jesus.
Why is it they no one can just debate a topic without attacking each other. (and that guy wondered why I constantly say I am not trying to start a flame war)
No, I dont think everyone is an idiot and yes for a game I hate I do enjoying debating it against people who love it. I have nothing against people who like the game and have said that a million and a half times.
I am struggling like hell to understand the logic in which you guys use to defend it though. What I am debating is not whether or not you like the game, if someone were to say, "I dont know why I like it, I just do." That would be completely fine and I wouldnt say another word to that person.
But that is not what most of you are doing...most of you are telling me that I missing something that you have and that is why I dislike the game. They very second you say, "well this...this...this..this..and this happened that is why" I can then in turn say....."Noo..the hell it didnt."
If you enjoyed the game and have no qualms then there is no debate...you have the right to like whatever the hell you want.
Why is it they no one can just debate a topic without attacking each other. (and that guy wondered why I constantly say I am not trying to start a flame war)
No, I dont think everyone is an idiot and yes for a game I hate I do enjoying debating it against people who love it. I have nothing against people who like the game and have said that a million and a half times.
I am struggling like hell to understand the logic in which you guys use to defend it though. What I am debating is not whether or not you like the game, if someone were to say, "I dont know why I like it, I just do." That would be completely fine and I wouldnt say another word to that person.
But that is not what most of you are doing...most of you are telling me that I missing something that you have and that is why I dislike the game. They very second you say, "well this...this...this..this..and this happened that is why" I can then in turn say....."Noo..the hell it didnt."
If you enjoyed the game and have no qualms then there is no debate...you have the right to like whatever the hell you want.
PrinnyOtaku
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I never said games have terrible stories, but most do. There's obviously examples of great games with stories that are told well, coherent, and better than movies.
The problem with Heavy Rain is that the setup is not believable, they throw you into a world that isn't grounded at all, the scenarios they put you in rarely make sense in a normal context, they were just there and made for you to play out. It feels like the whole thing was made: "Mmm, how can we explain this to you, oh I know, let's..."
Heavy Rain isn't exactly "innovative" perse, but it does take QTEs to another level, and its level of attention to level is impressive to me. This is what Heavenly Sword and other earlier games promised, and it shows. The game looks really really good, the settings believable. At least for some of us this was the first time you actually thought the places in the game were real, that you could've been there, no? That's an achievement in my book.
And of course anyone's personal opinion can be a reflection of whether a story is written well or not. Anyone can tell a story, but 1. it might be a terrible story or 2. they might tell it horribly which ruins the experience for you. If I believe that they didn't do a job unfolding the story for me, well that may or may not be a sign. Like I said, just because you're convinced or buy it doesn't mean I will.
A lot of you are saying you really felt connected to the characters, that they were real and you were sympathetic to them, etc... Well, aside from a few scenes with Ethan, I couldn't connect at all with the other characters. To me that's a flaw (not saying you have to relate to EVERY character but...). To other people it's gonna be different. That's fine.
EDIT: You also have to understand I had, super high expectations for this game. I really enjoyed it in the end, but it was disappointing still. It's not a BAD game though; there's no need to come to the defense of a game just to defend it.
The problem with Heavy Rain is that the setup is not believable, they throw you into a world that isn't grounded at all, the scenarios they put you in rarely make sense in a normal context, they were just there and made for you to play out. It feels like the whole thing was made: "Mmm, how can we explain this to you, oh I know, let's..."
Heavy Rain isn't exactly "innovative" perse, but it does take QTEs to another level, and its level of attention to level is impressive to me. This is what Heavenly Sword and other earlier games promised, and it shows. The game looks really really good, the settings believable. At least for some of us this was the first time you actually thought the places in the game were real, that you could've been there, no? That's an achievement in my book.
And of course anyone's personal opinion can be a reflection of whether a story is written well or not. Anyone can tell a story, but 1. it might be a terrible story or 2. they might tell it horribly which ruins the experience for you. If I believe that they didn't do a job unfolding the story for me, well that may or may not be a sign. Like I said, just because you're convinced or buy it doesn't mean I will.
A lot of you are saying you really felt connected to the characters, that they were real and you were sympathetic to them, etc... Well, aside from a few scenes with Ethan, I couldn't connect at all with the other characters. To me that's a flaw (not saying you have to relate to EVERY character but...). To other people it's gonna be different. That's fine.
EDIT: You also have to understand I had, super high expectations for this game. I really enjoyed it in the end, but it was disappointing still. It's not a BAD game though; there's no need to come to the defense of a game just to defend it.
One thing i liked was how none of the main characters really interacted with Shelby until the end. While I was playing, I never really thought that he was the killer, but that somehow, his storyline was happening out-of-sync with the others. That somehow he was investigating it after-the-fact and that he would eventually come upon like a dead Ethan (after he had taken his life or something).
Also, the reason that the characters say stuff like 'I'm still shaken up from the Doctor' is to remind us of what happened. Just because most everyone here played this in one long 6-9 hour stretch means everyone will. Stuff like this, while it may be distracking for some, is neccessary since not everyone plays a game like this at the same pace [a reason why books and movies have different pacing from each other -- it has to do with the material being given to you in 90 minutes or you taking the material over the day-week-month it takes you to read the book].
Also, the reason that the characters say stuff like 'I'm still shaken up from the Doctor' is to remind us of what happened. Just because most everyone here played this in one long 6-9 hour stretch means everyone will. Stuff like this, while it may be distracking for some, is neccessary since not everyone plays a game like this at the same pace [a reason why books and movies have different pacing from each other -- it has to do with the material being given to you in 90 minutes or you taking the material over the day-week-month it takes you to read the book].
Soodmeg
CAGiversary!
[quote name='wildcpac']
[/QUOTE]
You are just flat out lying now.
Does the game need to tell you everything. Cant you just assume he uses his inhaler off screen during the game. One scene he goes to buy an inhaler. You press the L2? button to read his thoughts throughout the whole game and he is mentioning asthma and the rain. Plus some of the scenes are of him in a warm dry place. Get over it.
Quit being a cry baby. I am sorry the whole game didn't point out every 5 seconds of Scott having an Asthma attack
Does the game need to tell you everything. Cant you just assume he uses his inhaler off screen during the game. One scene he goes to buy an inhaler. You press the L2? button to read his thoughts throughout the whole game and he is mentioning asthma and the rain. Plus some of the scenes are of him in a warm dry place. Get over it.
Quit being a cry baby. I am sorry the whole game didn't point out every 5 seconds of Scott having an Asthma attack
I didnt see this one, Dude this is the main problem. How the hell am I suppose to know YOUR MADE UP SCENARIO that explains it.
If we are playing that game. You know how Madison knows Jayden number? Because they are long lost brother and sister who were reunited just recently when their mother was killed in a mystery that was never solved. That is why Madison became a journalist and why Jayden works for the FBI. They both have an obsession with solving murders and try to seek redemption for their inability to find their own mothers killer.
How do I know that? How do you not know that? You must of missed it, all of this was revealed during one of ethans blackouts.
You guys seem to be mistaking interpretation and blatantly making up scenarios and then passing them off as facts based on assumptions that can not be proved or disproved.
If we are playing that game. You know how Madison knows Jayden number? Because they are long lost brother and sister who were reunited just recently when their mother was killed in a mystery that was never solved. That is why Madison became a journalist and why Jayden works for the FBI. They both have an obsession with solving murders and try to seek redemption for their inability to find their own mothers killer.
How do I know that? How do you not know that? You must of missed it, all of this was revealed during one of ethans blackouts.
You guys seem to be mistaking interpretation and blatantly making up scenarios and then passing them off as facts based on assumptions that can not be proved or disproved.
Soodmeg
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Frankski']
[/QUOTE]
You are not understanding at all what I am actually saying. It doesnt even matter how long the session you played were.
[quote name='PrinnyOtaku']
EDIT: You also have to understand I had, super high expectations for this game. I really enjoyed it in the end, but it was disappointing still. It's not a BAD game though; there's no need to come to the defense of a game just to defend it.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. A couple of you are no even trying to debate...your just defending the game for the sake of proving that I am wrong. I dont want to be wrong or right, I want to understand what you understand but some of these explanation range from comical to border line offensive in the way that I am suppose to be so naive that I believe I missed something that was off scene or in a cut scene that was never shown.
One thing i liked was how none of the main characters really interacted with Shelby until the end. While I was playing, I never really thought that he was the killer, but that somehow, his storyline was happening out-of-sync with the others. That somehow he was investigating it after-the-fact and that he would eventually come upon like a dead Ethan (after he had taken his life or something).
Also, the reason that the characters say stuff like 'I'm still shaken up from the Doctor' is to remind us of what happened. Just because most everyone here played this in one long 6-9 hour stretch means everyone will. Stuff like this, while it may be distracking for some, is neccessary since not everyone plays a game like this at the same pace [a reason why books and movies have different pacing from each other -- it has to do with the material being given to you in 90 minutes or you taking the material over the day-week-month it takes you to read the book].
Also, the reason that the characters say stuff like 'I'm still shaken up from the Doctor' is to remind us of what happened. Just because most everyone here played this in one long 6-9 hour stretch means everyone will. Stuff like this, while it may be distracking for some, is neccessary since not everyone plays a game like this at the same pace [a reason why books and movies have different pacing from each other -- it has to do with the material being given to you in 90 minutes or you taking the material over the day-week-month it takes you to read the book].
You are not understanding at all what I am actually saying. It doesnt even matter how long the session you played were.
I am talking about progression of the players in relation to the things they have done. Look no further than Jayden. If you take the blue stuff in scene A down the line in scene E he is visually different. He struggles through out the game in a tangible way that the player controls. Whether you have him snort a ton of it or a little both have different results.
That is called progressing. None of the other players do that...other than saying. "I am still shook up, although it has not visually or physically impression on me what so ever."
By the way, I did like the game enough to want to play it through the end. I had a decent about of fun with it.
That is called progressing. None of the other players do that...other than saying. "I am still shook up, although it has not visually or physically impression on me what so ever."
By the way, I did like the game enough to want to play it through the end. I had a decent about of fun with it.
[quote name='PrinnyOtaku']
EDIT: You also have to understand I had, super high expectations for this game. I really enjoyed it in the end, but it was disappointing still. It's not a BAD game though; there's no need to come to the defense of a game just to defend it.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. A couple of you are no even trying to debate...your just defending the game for the sake of proving that I am wrong. I dont want to be wrong or right, I want to understand what you understand but some of these explanation range from comical to border line offensive in the way that I am suppose to be so naive that I believe I missed something that was off scene or in a cut scene that was never shown.
FoxHoundADAM
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ALright, it's clear the story has some plot holes but so does EVERY episode of NCIS and every other crime show drama when you nit pick to death like this. And that is esspecially rtue about something with multiple endings and story branches.
Also, how do you ever play ANY videogame when plot holes bother you so much, being that just about every game ever is full of them.
I bet the Metal Gear Solid series drove you nuts!
Also, how do you ever play ANY videogame when plot holes bother you so much, being that just about every game ever is full of them.
I bet the Metal Gear Solid series drove you nuts!
[quote name='Soodmeg']
[/QUOTE]
I didnt see this one, Dude this is the main problem. How the hell am I suppose to know YOUR MADE UP SCENARIO that explains it.
If we are playing that game. You know how Madison knows Jayden number? Because they are long lost brother and sister who were reunited just recently when their mother was killed in a mystery that was never solved. That is why Madison became a journalist and why Jayden works for the FBI. They both have an obsession with solving murders and try to seek redemption for their inability to find their own mothers killer.
How do I know that? How do you not know that? You must of missed it, all of this was revealed during one of ethans blackouts.
You guys seem to be mistaking interpretation and blatantly making up scenarios and then passing them off as facts based on assumptions that can not be proved or disproved.
If we are playing that game. You know how Madison knows Jayden number? Because they are long lost brother and sister who were reunited just recently when their mother was killed in a mystery that was never solved. That is why Madison became a journalist and why Jayden works for the FBI. They both have an obsession with solving murders and try to seek redemption for their inability to find their own mothers killer.
How do I know that? How do you not know that? You must of missed it, all of this was revealed during one of ethans blackouts.
You guys seem to be mistaking interpretation and blatantly making up scenarios and then passing them off as facts based on assumptions that can not be proved or disproved.
I did a google search. This is from someones playthrough
"Maybe your dialouge was different (I've only done one playtrhough) but in mine she referred to him as "Jayden, that FBI guy" and then when she calls him she says "You don't know me but..." so my take was that her friend that works with her (his name was Sam, I think) who was finding information for her (he's the one that leads you to Doctor Death's house) had also given her info on who was working on the case, and she decided that Jayden would be the best bet."
"Maybe your dialouge was different (I've only done one playtrhough) but in mine she referred to him as "Jayden, that FBI guy" and then when she calls him she says "You don't know me but..." so my take was that her friend that works with her (his name was Sam, I think) who was finding information for her (he's the one that leads you to Doctor Death's house) had also given her info on who was working on the case, and she decided that Jayden would be the best bet."
Why do I get the feeling that the DLC will just contain cut material. . .
such as Ethan's blackouts, to flesh out the plot holes? I honestly think that the reason the story is so confusing is because much of it ended up on the cutting room floor.
Somebody mentioned that Madison being a reporter was supposed to be a big twist or reveal, yet when I got to that part it just flew over my head. I didn't even blink twice because none of her character was explained well at all, so by then I didn't care.
I think the best thing the game has going for it is the fact that you get hooked on tracking down the killer and past a certain point, you're dying to find out. I think a lot of the story not making sense or character development being awful just goes by the wayside since it's no longer a point of interest to the player. The people who do notice are ones who simply aren't enjoying the game. I fell somewhere in between because once the killer was revealed, I stopped enjoying the game. Everything after that just felt extraneous because up to this point I hadn't developed any connections to the characters and the only reason I was keeping them in good health was to reveal the killer.
That's where I think Heavy Rain really failed: the game tries hard to motivate through emotion, but is simply too unconvincing in lieu of the chase. If I'm coming off as confusing, it's just because it's hard for me to explain.
Somebody mentioned that Madison being a reporter was supposed to be a big twist or reveal, yet when I got to that part it just flew over my head. I didn't even blink twice because none of her character was explained well at all, so by then I didn't care.
I think the best thing the game has going for it is the fact that you get hooked on tracking down the killer and past a certain point, you're dying to find out. I think a lot of the story not making sense or character development being awful just goes by the wayside since it's no longer a point of interest to the player. The people who do notice are ones who simply aren't enjoying the game. I fell somewhere in between because once the killer was revealed, I stopped enjoying the game. Everything after that just felt extraneous because up to this point I hadn't developed any connections to the characters and the only reason I was keeping them in good health was to reveal the killer.
That's where I think Heavy Rain really failed: the game tries hard to motivate through emotion, but is simply too unconvincing in lieu of the chase. If I'm coming off as confusing, it's just because it's hard for me to explain.
Soodmeg
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Jodou']Why do I get the feeling that the DLC will just contain cut material. . .
[/QUOTE]
I get exactly what you are saying.
To FoxHoundADAM.
Yes, this game has all of the crazy plot holes that any episode of NCIS or CSI has. But isnt that the problem?
This isnt suppose to be a run of the mill action game. I can believe everything in MW2 even though its just as equally ridiculous and they had to focus on both over the top action scenes and gameplay. No one plays COD solely for the plot.
Heavy rain is 90% "drama" as they call it and 10% game. The 10% of game is poorly done with PS1 Resident Evil Tank like controls for your player but can easily be over looked if the plot is air tight. Problem is about as tight as a women with 10 kids.
such as Ethan's blackouts, to flesh out the plot holes? I honestly think that the reason the story is so confusing is because much of it ended up on the cutting room floor.
Somebody mentioned that Madison being a reporter was supposed to be a big twist or reveal, yet when I got to that part it just flew over my head. I didn't even blink twice because none of her character was explained well at all, so by then I didn't care.
I think the best thing the game has going for it is the fact that you get hooked on tracking down the killer and past a certain point, you're dying to find out. I think a lot of the story not making sense or character development being awful just goes by the wayside since it's no longer a point of interest to the player. The people who do notice are ones who simply aren't enjoying the game. I fell somewhere in between because once the killer was revealed, I stopped enjoying the game. Everything after that just felt extraneous because up to this point I hadn't developed any connections to the characters and the only reason I was keeping them in good health was to reveal the killer.
That's where I think Heavy Rain really failed: the game tries hard to motivate through emotion, but is simply too unconvincing in lieu of the chase. If I'm coming off as confusing, it's just because it's hard for me to explain.
Somebody mentioned that Madison being a reporter was supposed to be a big twist or reveal, yet when I got to that part it just flew over my head. I didn't even blink twice because none of her character was explained well at all, so by then I didn't care.
I think the best thing the game has going for it is the fact that you get hooked on tracking down the killer and past a certain point, you're dying to find out. I think a lot of the story not making sense or character development being awful just goes by the wayside since it's no longer a point of interest to the player. The people who do notice are ones who simply aren't enjoying the game. I fell somewhere in between because once the killer was revealed, I stopped enjoying the game. Everything after that just felt extraneous because up to this point I hadn't developed any connections to the characters and the only reason I was keeping them in good health was to reveal the killer.
That's where I think Heavy Rain really failed: the game tries hard to motivate through emotion, but is simply too unconvincing in lieu of the chase. If I'm coming off as confusing, it's just because it's hard for me to explain.
I get exactly what you are saying.
Also, another thing. If in my play through, Madison never sees/hears/talks/ mentions Jayden am I suppose to take someone elses play through as reason why she had his number?
Wouldnt that mean contrarily to their claim there is a right and wrong way to play. The game should change according to the thing presented in my play through not yours.
That makes the game even more confusing because I cant even trust what little it did present to me.
Wouldnt that mean contrarily to their claim there is a right and wrong way to play. The game should change according to the thing presented in my play through not yours.
That makes the game even more confusing because I cant even trust what little it did present to me.
To FoxHoundADAM.
Yes, this game has all of the crazy plot holes that any episode of NCIS or CSI has. But isnt that the problem?
This isnt suppose to be a run of the mill action game. I can believe everything in MW2 even though its just as equally ridiculous and they had to focus on both over the top action scenes and gameplay. No one plays COD solely for the plot.
Heavy rain is 90% "drama" as they call it and 10% game. The 10% of game is poorly done with PS1 Resident Evil Tank like controls for your player but can easily be over looked if the plot is air tight. Problem is about as tight as a women with 10 kids.
DarkKenpachi
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All I can do now is laugh about the game because it is all true. there are various instances where connections are not made and yet the story still progresses like we know this stuff instantly. I loved the game but the more I read and think about it there has to be one definitive play through that does not leave any basic plotholes like how Madison calls Norman up after the 2 never meeting in the game. Now real life plotholes are something else because there is no way to explain around them.
we are all nitpicking this game a lot, which at this point is right, but honestly at the end of the day I am still thankful for the experience and I hope more games are made like this.
we are all nitpicking this game a lot, which at this point is right, but honestly at the end of the day I am still thankful for the experience and I hope more games are made like this.
PrinnyOtaku
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Pretty much what Judou said, this game pushed you along because you wanted to find out who the killer was, and when it got to that point and you found out, the rest of it not only seemed pointless, but everything up to that point also seemed that way. The 4 "heroes" did not interact with each other until the last 20% of the game, something that would never happen in a good movie.
There is way too much complaining about the game, I'll give you that. It's perfectly likely for someone to play through it and enjoy it for what it is, but please don't put the game on a pedestal like it's some perfect example of how storytelling should be. I for one do not think Cage has proved himself in any way that he should get a free ticket into the film industry. When I read an article saying basically that, I was mildly irritated. But, that's my opinion so yeah
There is way too much complaining about the game, I'll give you that. It's perfectly likely for someone to play through it and enjoy it for what it is, but please don't put the game on a pedestal like it's some perfect example of how storytelling should be. I for one do not think Cage has proved himself in any way that he should get a free ticket into the film industry. When I read an article saying basically that, I was mildly irritated. But, that's my opinion so yeah
Robobandit
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Well, Jayden knows who Madison is..
the ARI scan of her fingerprints left on Paco's ashtray at the club, and his comments about the owner of the prints indicate that he is at least aware of her.. or her data is in the police/fbi databanks for some reason.
I got the impression from some of Madison's lines, particularly when she meets Ethan that she has been the victim of a crime (possibly rape) in the past.. which could explain why she has the nightmares with masked men with knives invading her apartment and why her prints are in the FBI database.
As was mentioned above, her friend Sam or even she could have had Jayden's information for quite some time since he arrived in town.
If you go to the Press Conference with Jayden, the press that are asking questions of the police chief are already aware of Jayden's presence.. probably wouldn't have taken much digging for Sam or Madison to get a phone number.
They couldn't have every little detail accounted for in the story because certain aspects of it can be drastically different depending on your choices.
I got the impression from some of Madison's lines, particularly when she meets Ethan that she has been the victim of a crime (possibly rape) in the past.. which could explain why she has the nightmares with masked men with knives invading her apartment and why her prints are in the FBI database.
As was mentioned above, her friend Sam or even she could have had Jayden's information for quite some time since he arrived in town.
If you go to the Press Conference with Jayden, the press that are asking questions of the police chief are already aware of Jayden's presence.. probably wouldn't have taken much digging for Sam or Madison to get a phone number.
They couldn't have every little detail accounted for in the story because certain aspects of it can be drastically different depending on your choices.
I agree with a lot of this.
http://www.destructoid.com/how-heavy-rain-has-lowered-the-bar-for-game-narrative-165426.phtml
Spoilers for those who don't know the Origami Killer's identity.
http://www.destructoid.com/how-heavy-rain-has-lowered-the-bar-for-game-narrative-165426.phtml
Spoilers for those who don't know the Origami Killer's identity.
Saint Noir
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[quote name='sotc1988']I agree with a lot of this.
http://www.destructoid.com/how-heavy-rain-has-lowered-the-bar-for-game-narrative-165426.phtml
Spoilers for those who don't know the Origami Killer's identity.[/QUOTE]
Only problem is Jim Sterling is one of the biggest anti-Sony trolls on the net. So, the source has no credibility.
http://www.destructoid.com/how-heavy-rain-has-lowered-the-bar-for-game-narrative-165426.phtml
Spoilers for those who don't know the Origami Killer's identity.[/QUOTE]
Only problem is Jim Sterling is one of the biggest anti-Sony trolls on the net. So, the source has no credibility.
jab1235
CAGiversary!
ok so i was gona either get l4d2 this weekend or heavy rain, and i wanted to play the demo for l4d2 but it wouldn't let me on xbox (xbox live store = ) so i checked the ps3 for the heavy rain demo and got it all downloaded and everything.
i got into the game and was fine with it but my tv isn't huge its around 20 inches, and an inch on the top and bottom are cut off. when i was talking to some girl all the options were flying by really quick but they were extremly small on my screen so i couldn't read them, so is there anyway to fix this?
that was alot for such a simple question haha
oh btw, the bars on the top and bottom are allways there but the theatrical bars in the game make it alot worse. i can see the words if i sit like a foot away from the tv but its still hard to tell witch button to use. i wana fix it because this game seems great but if i can barly play it then i don't want to waste the money.
) so i checked the ps3 for the heavy rain demo and got it all downloaded and everything.i got into the game and was fine with it but my tv isn't huge its around 20 inches, and an inch on the top and bottom are cut off. when i was talking to some girl all the options were flying by really quick but they were extremly small on my screen so i couldn't read them, so is there anyway to fix this?
that was alot for such a simple question haha
oh btw, the bars on the top and bottom are allways there but the theatrical bars in the game make it alot worse. i can see the words if i sit like a foot away from the tv but its still hard to tell witch button to use. i wana fix it because this game seems great but if i can barly play it then i don't want to waste the money.
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Saint Noir
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[quote name='sotc1988']I don't care. It's a well written piece that makes sense to me.[/QUOTE]
Just trying to help you out. You can make a good case either way for this game and neither one is right/wrong. A few people here are obviously too crazy on one side or the other and don't articulate their points in any intelligent way.
Using a Jim Sterling piece in anything (not just this) is like trying to say something about cigarettes and using a study funded by big tobacco as your evidence. It discredits you. You'd be much better of phrasing things yourself and making your own case.
But alas... you don't care.
Just trying to help you out. You can make a good case either way for this game and neither one is right/wrong. A few people here are obviously too crazy on one side or the other and don't articulate their points in any intelligent way.
Using a Jim Sterling piece in anything (not just this) is like trying to say something about cigarettes and using a study funded by big tobacco as your evidence. It discredits you. You'd be much better of phrasing things yourself and making your own case.
But alas... you don't care.
Should I? I play video game to have fun, I watch film because I enjoy it, I read because it's stimulating. Do you want me to apologize that I didn't vet the guy before posting a link? I don't have time for that. I can't believe I stopped watching Boogie Nights to type this. Keep posting rebuttals if you want but I'm done.
Malik112099
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[quote name='sotc1988']I agree with a lot of this.
http://www.destructoid.com/how-heavy-rain-has-lowered-the-bar-for-game-narrative-165426.phtml
Spoilers for those who don't know the Origami Killer's identity.[/QUOTE]
Sony hater or not, if the main point of that article is true then I am VERY glad I didn't waste my time on this game......
The plot "twist" and holes remind me big time of the movie High Tension
http://www.destructoid.com/how-heavy-rain-has-lowered-the-bar-for-game-narrative-165426.phtml
Spoilers for those who don't know the Origami Killer's identity.[/QUOTE]
Sony hater or not, if the main point of that article is true then I am VERY glad I didn't waste my time on this game......
The plot "twist" and holes remind me big time of the movie High Tension
Malik112099
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[quote name='Saint Noir']Just trying to help you out. You can make a good case either way for this game and neither one is right/wrong. A few people here are obviously too crazy on one side or the other and don't articulate their points in any intelligent way.
Using a Jim Sterling piece in anything (not just this) is like trying to say something about cigarettes and using a study funded by big tobacco as your evidence. It discredits you. You'd be much better of phrasing things yourself and making your own case.
But alas... you don't care.[/QUOTE]
Whether or not the guy writing the article is creditable or not is NOT the issue. His points seem to be valid and based on what I have read his statements based on the content of the game are true. You refuse to criticize the obvious faults in the game he points out so you say he is not creditable based on his historical Sony bashing. You skip over the facts of the matter and try to bash the guy in an attempt to redirect people away from what he is actually talking about.
Your Fox news tactics are old and over used. If this game was also on the Xbox the SDF would be shitting all over it. Just because it is PS3 exclusive doesnt mean you have to defend it to death.
Using a Jim Sterling piece in anything (not just this) is like trying to say something about cigarettes and using a study funded by big tobacco as your evidence. It discredits you. You'd be much better of phrasing things yourself and making your own case.
But alas... you don't care.[/QUOTE]
Whether or not the guy writing the article is creditable or not is NOT the issue. His points seem to be valid and based on what I have read his statements based on the content of the game are true. You refuse to criticize the obvious faults in the game he points out so you say he is not creditable based on his historical Sony bashing. You skip over the facts of the matter and try to bash the guy in an attempt to redirect people away from what he is actually talking about.
Your Fox news tactics are old and over used. If this game was also on the Xbox the SDF would be shitting all over it. Just because it is PS3 exclusive doesnt mean you have to defend it to death.
[quote name='Saint Noir']Just trying to help you out. You can make a good case either way for this game and neither one is right/wrong. A few people here are obviously too crazy on one side or the other and don't articulate their points in any intelligent way.
Using a Jim Sterling piece in anything (not just this) is like trying to say something about cigarettes and using a study funded by big tobacco as your evidence. It discredits you. You'd be much better of phrasing things yourself and making your own case.
But alas... you don't care.[/QUOTE]
I am just curious, but have you read his article yet? I don't know anything about this Jim Sterling fellow, but he did write a well thought out article about one of the biggest problems in Heavy Rain. If you want to make complaints about his article, then you can comment on the handful of typos, however, I think that the information that he presents is quite irrefutable.
The points that he brings up in his article are basically some of the same reasons for why the game's story was spoiled for me. Also, like the author points out in his article, I don't hate Heavy Rain, and I think Heavy Rain is a good game, but it does have a multitude of problems that cannot be ignored or glossed over.
Using a Jim Sterling piece in anything (not just this) is like trying to say something about cigarettes and using a study funded by big tobacco as your evidence. It discredits you. You'd be much better of phrasing things yourself and making your own case.
But alas... you don't care.[/QUOTE]
I am just curious, but have you read his article yet? I don't know anything about this Jim Sterling fellow, but he did write a well thought out article about one of the biggest problems in Heavy Rain. If you want to make complaints about his article, then you can comment on the handful of typos, however, I think that the information that he presents is quite irrefutable.
The points that he brings up in his article are basically some of the same reasons for why the game's story was spoiled for me. Also, like the author points out in his article, I don't hate Heavy Rain, and I think Heavy Rain is a good game, but it does have a multitude of problems that cannot be ignored or glossed over.
mykevermin
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Not reading this thread until I finish the game, but I ain't heard American English accents this bad in a long time.
Really enjoying the game, but boy howdy they dropped the ball Resident Evil 1-style with the voice acting.
Really enjoying the game, but boy howdy they dropped the ball Resident Evil 1-style with the voice acting.
FriskyTanuki
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[quote name='Soodmeg']
[/QUOTE]
[quote name='Soodmeg']I get exactly what you are saying.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, yes it would. It would mean that they had a purpose for everything they did in the game. (you know like a good story) It would mean scene had contained something that linked its self to scene E, which also contains something that links itself to scene H. That is what separates good for bad. This isnt The Simpson's, where the first 10 min have nothing to do with the last 20. This is a whodunit...the story needs to progress in a logical and interesting way.
Could you imagine if they never link Lenard Shelby memory loss to anything else in Momento? If it was just there because it sounded cool but the rest of the movie ignored it.
Also, I am a little sick of every pro debate for the game to boil down to, "Well...I didnt need for the game to tell me things," or they make up a complete scenario that are not even presented in the game.
For example, Norman Jayden. This story arc is actually done pretty well as far has linking his problem through out the game. You know that he is addicted too something, you have a tangible effect on how much of the blue stuff he snorts through out the game which effects how his ending is presented.
So if they did it for him why cant they do it for everyone else? And I admit right now that I might be missing the links for the other players......but so are you and everyone else because that, "I didnt need the game to link it," strawman doesnt cut it.
Could you imagine if they never link Lenard Shelby memory loss to anything else in Momento? If it was just there because it sounded cool but the rest of the movie ignored it.
Also, I am a little sick of every pro debate for the game to boil down to, "Well...I didnt need for the game to tell me things," or they make up a complete scenario that are not even presented in the game.
For example, Norman Jayden. This story arc is actually done pretty well as far has linking his problem through out the game. You know that he is addicted too something, you have a tangible effect on how much of the blue stuff he snorts through out the game which effects how his ending is presented.
So if they did it for him why cant they do it for everyone else? And I admit right now that I might be missing the links for the other players......but so are you and everyone else because that, "I didnt need the game to link it," strawman doesnt cut it.
Why am I not allowed to have an opinion about exposition? I get that Scott has asthma and Madison has insomnia, so why do I need to be constantly reminded of that throughout the game by inserting it at points when the pace picks up greatly? It's not making the game any better to be constantly reminded of that stuff and have it interrupt the more important stuff like the trials and the investigation. Do you really need to see every instance of Scott using his inhaler and Madison sleeping or being up late at night saying "I hate insomnia because it keeps me from sleeping."
Drug addiction's a lot easier to show since there's the battle between dealing with the withdrawals or giving in to the drug to let him deal with a situation more easily. With asthma, you're just seeing Scott wheezing every once in a while and taking a few puffs off of his inhaler. And insomnia's even harder, as it's just Madison being awake all of the time or having an hallucination, if she's sleep deprived. What's the real benefit to their characters to have all of this fluff? Sounds like you just want bonus profiles of background info so everything is explained for you up front, which would be a nice way to have details of story threads as you see them.
Drug addiction's a lot easier to show since there's the battle between dealing with the withdrawals or giving in to the drug to let him deal with a situation more easily. With asthma, you're just seeing Scott wheezing every once in a while and taking a few puffs off of his inhaler. And insomnia's even harder, as it's just Madison being awake all of the time or having an hallucination, if she's sleep deprived. What's the real benefit to their characters to have all of this fluff? Sounds like you just want bonus profiles of background info so everything is explained for you up front, which would be a nice way to have details of story threads as you see them.
Also, another thing. If in my play through, Madison never sees/hears/talks/ mentions Jayden am I suppose to take someone elses play through as reason why she had his number?
Wouldnt that mean contrarily to their claim there is a right and wrong way to play. The game should change according to the thing presented in my play through not yours.
That makes the game even more confusing because I cant even trust what little it did present to me.
Wouldnt that mean contrarily to their claim there is a right and wrong way to play. The game should change according to the thing presented in my play through not yours.
That makes the game even more confusing because I cant even trust what little it did present to me.
Are you really saying that if you didn't see it in your game, it could not have happened in anybody else's game or be a fact? I can see being skeptical and wanting video evidence, but outright denying that stuff is a bit much. There are plenty of chances to skip dialog, inner monologue, or avoid situations to get more info on the things that happen in the game, so I don't know why you're pooping on extra details from those that sought it since you're not going to play through it a second time.
If there was a wrong way to play the game, you'd have seen game over screens, not the story continuing along with the choices you made.
If there was a wrong way to play the game, you'd have seen game over screens, not the story continuing along with the choices you made.
cdietschrun
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Is there anyway to skip cutscenes in this game?
Darkness Muta
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[quote name='cdietschrun']Is there anyway to skip cutscenes in this game?[/QUOTE]
I reloaded my finished game save to see if it would show me the whole ending I got before but all it showed was the last epilogue and then made me sit through all those long credits (that seem to stutter a bit) with no way to exit other then quitting the game.
I reloaded my finished game save to see if it would show me the whole ending I got before but all it showed was the last epilogue and then made me sit through all those long credits (that seem to stutter a bit) with no way to exit other then quitting the game.
[quote name='sotc1988']I agree with a lot of this.
http://www.destructoid.com/how-heavy-rain-has-lowered-the-bar-for-game-narrative-165426.phtml
Spoilers for those who don't know the Origami Killer's identity.[/QUOTE]
Dumb.
http://www.destructoid.com/how-heavy-rain-has-lowered-the-bar-for-game-narrative-165426.phtml
Spoilers for those who don't know the Origami Killer's identity.[/QUOTE]
Dumb.
jab1235
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[quote name='jab1235']ok so i was gona either get l4d2 this weekend or heavy rain, and i wanted to play the demo for l4d2 but it wouldn't let me on xbox (xbox live store = ) so i checked the ps3 for the heavy rain demo and got it all downloaded and everything.
i got into the game and was fine with it but my tv isn't huge its around 20 inches, and an inch on the top and bottom are cut off. when i was talking to some girl all the options were flying by really quick but they were extremly small on my screen so i couldn't read them, so is there anyway to fix this?
that was alot for such a simple question haha
oh btw, the bars on the top and bottom are allways there but the theatrical bars in the game make it alot worse. i can see the words if i sit like a foot away from the tv but its still hard to tell witch button to use. i wana fix it because this game seems great but if i can barly play it then i don't want to waste the money.[/QUOTE]
help
) so i checked the ps3 for the heavy rain demo and got it all downloaded and everything.i got into the game and was fine with it but my tv isn't huge its around 20 inches, and an inch on the top and bottom are cut off. when i was talking to some girl all the options were flying by really quick but they were extremly small on my screen so i couldn't read them, so is there anyway to fix this?
that was alot for such a simple question haha
oh btw, the bars on the top and bottom are allways there but the theatrical bars in the game make it alot worse. i can see the words if i sit like a foot away from the tv but its still hard to tell witch button to use. i wana fix it because this game seems great but if i can barly play it then i don't want to waste the money.[/QUOTE]
help
bread's done