Let's talk Skyrim! (Gameplay footage inside.)

[quote name='The Crotch']Another point to Fallout: less absurd level scaling. A bandit using a $200 knife to try and mug me for $50? Everyone in the world gets glass and daedric armour around a certain level?


Actually, I found a mod that gave animals more realistic AI. Herbivores no longer cooperated with carnivores to murder my ass, and wolves were split between territorial (growl at you at a distance, attack if you get close) and hunting (full-on murder your ass). Dunno if it changed bears any, though. So yes, horribly unrealistic depictions of real things - meant to be taken as realistic - do piss me off a bit.

They've already mentioned that some creatures in Skyrim consider you beneath their notice, so they've raised my hopes for more nuanced creature AI.

EDIT: Alright, in case this still seems really small and petty, here's a bigger explanation for all this.

If any of you actually read the "best game ever" thread that's somewhere on the front-ish page of this subforum, you may remember that I said, "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.". This was true when Antoine de Saint-Exupery said it first, it was true when Leonard Nimoy said it in Civilization 4, and it's fucking well true now.

"So the wolves don't emulate actual wolf behavior," you oh hypothetical reader that I call upon every once-in-a-while when explaining shit like this say, "So what?"

Then why wolves at all? Why would you bother accurately recreating the appearance of a creature if you're going to have it behave exactly like a goblin or a troll or a bandit or a Daedra? Why are the wolves and boars and bears not clannfears and scamps and daedroth?

This relates to another point I'll give Fallout over Oblivion: I felt like the Enclave was actually a god damn threat. My first ever encounter with an Enclave trooper came at level fucking bullshit, only a couple sidequests in. I was just coming back from the mall for Moira - the big prize of that expedition and been a barely-functioning combat shotgun - and suddenly I'm hiding behind a giant rock with that almost broken gun, a lone Enclave scout with a laser pistol coming at me.

Compare this to the Daedra of Oblivion, who apparently come from the Underpants Gnome school of demonic invasion - open gates to Oblivion, ??????, profit! The one hundred percent scripted events of Kvatch and the end battle aside, the invading Daedra don't do... anything. They hang around outside their gates. Or they hang around in that one cave with the scamp staff thing. Even when they're supposedly threatening all the cities, they do nothing more than circle-jerk outside their little Sauron eyes.

So why not, instead of things that look like wolves and are called wolves but act nothing like wolves, and things that look like bears and are called bears but act nothing like bears, why not just scatter Daedra throughout the forests and mountains? You would be reducing the unnecessary (bringing you closer to Antoine de Saint-Exupery/Leonard Nimoy's "perfection"), reducing the amount of work Bethesda had to do (don't have to make models and textures for those creatures), and giving a sense of urgency to a plot that is sorely lacking it.

And, as a final aside, overly-aggressive depictions of carnivores and omnivores is a pet peeve of mine in games, film, and TV. It's one thing if that's the entire premise of the film/game/show - "Them!" or "Jaws" or whatever - but I'm really tired of "things with pointy teeth are douchebags" being used as a means of creating conflict out of nothing.
[/QUOTE]

Haha it was just a dumb joke but that is a [James Lipton Voice] masterful response

Even good games get this wrong. Like Red Dead Redemption - most of the animals were done pretty well, but they imbued the cougar with the soul of a ronin on steroids.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Yes, I tried to do as much long-range magery and stealth as possible, too.

Even so...

Well, let's see.

Completely different stat systems, completely different levelling systems (Oblivion's was a fucking nightmare), less emphasis on melee (not that I dislike melee, but it's rare to see it done well from the first-person perspective), better NPCs, a much better world map, companions, far less useless "stuff" (buffs that last for mere seconds, racial and birthsign differences that are nullified within a few levels, etc.)...

Clunky as hell inventory? Yes. Too little control over companions? Yes. Melee still sucked? Hell yes.

But still a lot better.

EDIT: Also, minus fifty points to any game that depicts all wild animals as relentless, person-hating killing machines. I give Fallout a pass because of the whole Radioactive Mutant Apocalypse thing, but Oblivion? One time I took a nice little horse ride cross-country between cities. When I got off, I had a two bandits, a wolf, and a wild boar chasing me. They all focused down my horse, then they all started focusing on me.

What the fuck is that shit?[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you enjoy nitpicking on tiny things that make so little difference that they can barely even be regarded as a real "flaw". At their core, Fallout and Oblivion were essentially the same game with nearly the same leveling/XP system, virtually the same melee combat system (excluding VATS, which just made everything more awesome), and virtually the same type of NPCs throughout the world with multiple dialogue options.

In any case, I'll let this argument die since you obviously will never run out of things that were so horrible in Oblivion but great in Fallout (such as the all important Animal AI).
 
Fallout and Oblivion had very different leveling systems. One was under complete player control, and the other was quasi-skill based. Plus, the enemy scaling system was more realistic, as it were, with Fallout.
 
I'm... not entirely sure I played the same games as rabbit...

EDIT: But, Skyrim, and one of those unimportant, nitpicky things that fills me with hope and some cement. Melee attacks will now be slightly "weighted" towards enemies and away from allies.

fuck yeah Dead King Harold!
 
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I know what you mean. I'm always amazed at how much time I'm willing to put into character detail for these types of games.

When I was in college, I had a good friend of mine who used to give me all kinds of grief about how much time I spent playing video games.

Then I introduced him to Oblivion, the character builder was actually what got him hooked. He started making a character flippantly, in an attempt to make fun of me. I left the room for a few minutes to grab something and when I came back he was completely zombiefied out in front of the computer screen...where he remained for about 3 weeks...we'll be both be playing a ton of Skyrim.

[quote name='Thekrakrabbit']Nice, and I'm sure the fine-tuning of facial features will be back and better then ever as well. I swear everytime I make a character on an Elder Scrolls game it takes me 20 minutes. :rofl:[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='Lyricsborn']Was pumpmed to play it but saw a screen of some big ass spider. Curse my arachnophobia.[/QUOTE]

Just do what I plan on doing: Run like a bitch in circles praying it gets bored and attacks something else, exploit the environment by gaining the high ground or luring it into a glitchy rock as you pelt spells and arrows into it, or take the Fallout approach and bring a companion with overpowered weaponry to kill it for you. ;)

If none of that works then I'm coming back at a higher level and sliding the difficulty to easy spamming melee attacks while I avoid eye contact with the screen. :cry:
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Fallout and Oblivion had very different leveling systems. One was under complete player control, and the other was quasi-skill based. Plus, the enemy scaling system was more realistic, as it were, with Fallout.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying it was exactly the same, but there were certainly similar in many ways. The things you got XP for, improving some abilities as you leveled up, etc. I do think that the Fallout leveling system (and combat for that matter) was better but I really have a tough time seeing somebody love Fallout but not like Oblivion. Seems odd IMO.

[quote name='The Crotch']I'm... not entirely sure I played the same games as rabbit...[/QUOTE]
 
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/09/26/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-perks-and-racial-skills-revealed-be-a-dark-elf-set-yourself-on-fire/

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim perks and racial skills revealed. Be a Dark Elf, set yourself on fire
Tom Senior at 11:59am September 26 2011

Elder Scrolls fans had a chance to get some hands on time with The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim recently at the Eurogamer Expo, and have collated a big old list of information on most of Skyrim's Perks over on The Elder Scrolls Skyrim fan site. These extra abilities can boost your major skills. One will cause your lightning bolt spell to outright evaporate your enemy if their health is low enough. Another will make items cheaper when you buy from the opposite sex you charming rogue, you.

There will be more pronounced racial differences in Skyrim, too. A scaly Argonian will have different baseline stats to a sturdy Orc. They're more adept at picking locks, but can't take a punch quite as well. As with Oblivion, each race will start with a racial ability of which the most impressive is surely the Dark Elf's Ancestor's Wrath, which surround him in wreaths of flame. In Oblivion, these abilities could often only be used once every 24 hours. A bit of Ancestor's Wrath after breakfast would be a great way to start the day, don't you think? Read on for the full list of perks discovered so far.

Perk Trees

Speech

Buying and selling price 10% better (5 ranks)
10% price buying from opposite sex
Invest in shops and increase available gold permanently in invested stores
Master Trader - every merchant in world gains 1000 gold for bartering
Buy and sell from any merchant regardless of what they normally buy and sell
Intimidation attempts twice as successful
Persuasion attempts more likely successful


Alchemy

Potions 20% stronger (5 ranks)
Potions for restore health, magicka or stamina are 25% more powerful (maybe ranked)
Poisons 25% more effective (maybe ranked)
Poisons last for twice as many hits
Two ingredients are gathered from plants
50% resistance to all poisons
All negative effects removed from potions and all positive removed from poisons
2 effects of an ingredient are revealed when testing it for the first time (instead of just one)


Illusion

Dual casting overcharges effect for more powerful spell
Cast Novice spells for 50% less magicka
Cast Apprentice spells for 50% less magicka
Cast Adept, Expert, Master etc spells for 50% less magicka (more levels this time around)
Spells work on higher level animals
Spells work on higher level people
All spellcasting (from ANY school) is done silently
Spells work on undead, daedra and automatons
Fear spells work on higher level enemies


Conjuration

Novice for 50% magicka etc (up to Master)
Dual casting overcharges -> greater spell effect
Bound weapons do more damage
Bound weapons cast Soul Trap on target
Bound weapons banish certain creatures (and I think summon creature in their place, not 100% on that though, dodgy recording)
Reanimate undead with 100 more health
Summon 2 Atronachs or reanimated zombies
Summon Atronachs at twice the distance
Summoned Atronachs twice as strong


Destruction

More damage for each school (fire, frost and shock) - ranked
Novice for 50% magicka etc.
Shock damage chance to disintegrate targets if their health is under 10%
Frost damage chance to paralyse targets if health low
Fire damage chance to make low health enemies flee
Place runes 5x farther away


Restoration

Healing spells also restore stamina
Novice for 50% less magicka etc
Healing spells do 50% more healing
Recharging healing spells
More is recharged with each hit with healing spells (unclear)
Spells more effective against undead
Once a day chance to autocast 250HP restoration when health drops low
Magicka regenerates 25% faster


Alteration

Novice for 50% less etc
Alteration spells have greater duration (ranked)
Absorb 30% magicka that hits you


Enchanting

Enchants are 20% stronger (ranked)
Enchanted armour 25% stronger
"Soul gems provide extra magicka for recharging" - again, dodgy recording but that's what I heard, even if it doesn't make much sense
Death blows to creatures but not people trap souls for weapon recharge
Health, magicka and stamina enchants stronger
Extra effect on already-enchanted weapon can be applied
Shock, Frost and Fire enchants 25% stronger (individual perks for each element)


Heavy Armour

Increase armour rating 20% (5 ranks)
Unarmed attacks with heavy armour gauntlets - damage increased by gauntlets' armour rating
Half fall damage if all in heavy armour
Heavy armour weighs nothing and doesn't slow you at all
Additional 25% armour if in matching set
25% armour bonus if all in heavy armour (not necessarily matching)
50% less stagger if all in heavy armour
10% damage reflected back to enemy if all in heavy armour


2-handed weapons

2h weapons do 20% more damage (5 ranks)
Attacks with warhammers ignore 25% armour (ranked)
Attacks with battleaxes do extra bleeding damage (ranked)
Attacks with greatswords do extra critical damage (ranked)
Power attacks cost 25% less stamina
Standing power attacks do 25% bonus damage, chance to decapitate
Sprinting power attacks do double (critical) damage
Sideways power attacks hit all targets
Backwards power attacks have 25% chance of paralysis

Archery

Bows do 25% more damage
Zoom in
Zooming slows time
10% crit chance
Move faster with drawn bow
Recover twice as many arrows from dead bodies
50% chance of paralysing for few seconds (might be 15%, can't really hear...)
Draw bow 30% faster


Sneak

20% harder to detect (ranked)
Sneak attacks do 6x damage with 1h weapons
Sneak attacks with bows do 3x damage
Sneak attacks with daggers do 15x damage (end perk on skill tree)
Noise from armour reduced 50%
No longer activate pressure plates
Sprinting while sneaking performs silent forward roll
Running does not affect detection chance
Crouching can make hostile enemies lose sight of you and search for a target


Racial Abilities

ORCS: Beserker
REDGUARDS: Adrenaline Rush
WOOD ELF: Resist poison, resisit disease, command animals
NORD: Battlecry
KHAJIIT: Night-eye, claw attacks
IMPERIAL: Voice of the Emperor, find more coins when looting
HIGH ELF: Regenerate Magicka more quickly
DARK ELF: Ancestor's Wrath (surround self in fire), resist fire
BRETON: Dragonskin (absorb spells), resist shock
ARGONIANS: Histskin (regenerate health quickly), resist disease, breathe underwater
 
Figured some people might find this useful, at least to look at before the game comes out in a week. It's a little more detailed than the list above, since it has levels attributed to each. Kind of torn between going my normal thief build or if I want to try 2H berserker approach this time.
 
I'm kind of torn between my light-armour character that mostly uses a melee weapon but carries a bow because sometimes it comes in handy and has a few spells (a healing spell, an offense spell, and a soul trap spell) and is alright at sneaking because it'll sometimes get you an extra critical hit or my heavy-armour character that is otherwise fucking identical.

Prove me wrong, Skyrim.

EDIT: Oh, and there's usually a summoning spell in there, too.
 
My first run character is always a light armored Bosmer archer-mage because shit needs to die from a distance without me ever being seen. :twisted:

Then I dip into Battlemages, Shadowscales, and Bardbarians. My problem is always avoiding not playing them all at once and thus experiencing severe loot/progress confusion.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']How do you play a bardbarian? There's no music system in any Elder Scrolls game...[/QUOTE]

Speechcraft and a giant 2h weapon while wearing a loincloth and humming. You can figure out the parts I do in-game versus the parts I do in real-life. ;)
 
I always go for the human characters, namely the Redguards. I just don't like playing as the more mythical races because they're kinda... weird and ugly. Does that make me fictionally racist?
 
I always go for a sneaky bow-wielding thief with a touch of magic thrown in.

Who's going to a midnight launch? I have to work Friday so I'm just going to pick it up then.
 
I found the most effective set-up to be a sword/shield/destruction/restoration user, but little else. My most recent Oblivion character has turned into a sneaker/assassin for some reason, but he still rocks at being a typical knight with healing/killing magical powers.

Skyrim will be completely different though, so I could end up having a guy who beats people with rolled up carpets, who knows.
 
[quote name='iamsmart']I always go for the human characters, namely the Redguards. I just don't like playing as the more mythical races because they're kinda... weird and ugly. Does that make me fictionally racist?[/QUOTE]

Yes.
 
So...
Werewolfs.
Who is excited for that? I know I personally am. This game just keeps getting better and better.
 
I can not wait for this game I already have 2 characters i want to make:
1) A Dark Elf Assassin - since the new skills seem awesome for this character
2) A Khajit(SP?) that looks like Liono from Thundercats and is a warrior class
 
[quote name='clonesniper666']I can not wait for this game I already have 2 characters i want to make:
1) A Dark Elf Assassin - since the new skills seem awesome for this character
2) A Khajit(SP?) that looks like Liono from Thundercats and is a warrior class[/QUOTE]

Haha you and I think alot alike. Nothing like playing an Epic Lion O. Thats what Ill be doing.
 
So for Druid I am thinking - Wood Elf - light armor / restoration / archery / destruction / maybe alchemy
 
[quote name='leeloo1977']So for Druid I am thinking - Wood Elf - light armor / restoration / archery / destruction / maybe alchemy[/QUOTE]

You and I think alike. Throw in a high sneaking skill and that's my character.
 
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-09-skyrim-promises-players-infinite-quests

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim promises players a near infinite amount of quests, according to the game's director.

Depending on your progress, the game's Radiant Quest System will randomly generate new tasks for you to complete. For example, an innkeeper might ask you to track down 10 bandits in a part of the map that you haven't explored yet.

On top of that, once you've completed the scripted storyline for each of the game's factions, you'll be able to pick up randomly generated quests at each group's respective hub, such as gem thieving missions or assassination requests.

Bethesda's Todd Howard told Wired that, "The vibe of the game is that it's something that you can play forever."

"The world is probably the one thing that sets [Skyrim] apart from other games," he added. "It feels really real for what it is… It's just fun to explore."
 
Hate stuff like that. I like knowing that each quest I complete has closure. Hopefully they're easy to spot because I don't like wasting my time on repeatable quests.
 
...

That was... kind of a bad review. All he said was, "A bunch of stuff from previous Bethesda games is in this one." And a nonsensical numbered score thing. There was nothing in there that couldn't be either inferred from the title or wasn't already known from previews.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']...

That was... kind of a bad review. All he said was, "A bunch of stuff from previous Bethesda games is in this one." And a nonsensical numbered score thing. There was nothing in there that couldn't be either inferred from the title or wasn't already known from previews.[/QUOTE]

Haters gonna hate. By the way, there was an update to the review that addresses the Online (lack of) scoring change.
 
Eh, it's a pretty vague review and doesn't mention anything I couldn't make up on my own. I'm sure he'll get a lot of web traffic from people looking for legitimate reviews.
 
[quote name='Stoic Person Eater']Eh, it's a pretty vague review and doesn't mention anything I couldn't make up on my own. I'm sure he'll get a lot of web traffic from people looking for legitimate reviews.[/QUOTE]

It's updated with even more info now but I am curious, what makes a review "legitimate"? Don’t tell me you actually fall for the major gaming companies "reviews" as being legit. :roll: If that is the case you have a lot to learn about how the industry is run. :booty:
 
kind of a bad review. All he said was...
Click to expand...
.... I'm sure he'll get a lot of web traffic
Click to expand...
The site is called krakrabbit, the CAG user posting the review it is called krakrabbit... I think it's safe to assume we can address krakrabbit directly instead of referring to a third party.

but I am curious, what makes a review "legitimate"?
Click to expand...
A good start is when it shows up on metacritic. I also tend to be wary of small sites that get their reviews out before everyone else; it's usually something of an indicator that they either didn't play it completely, or maybe didn't play it at all, whatever the case it seems like they are trolling for hits. You have gameplay videos so from what I can tell you HAVE played it, but I gotta agree that I'm not learning alot from the review, there's alot more overviewing than there is critiquing. I also don't think it's a good idea to give the game a 10 for online when it is completely offline either... if you're concerned about it affecting the overall score then you should probably change the way your scores are calculated. IGN scores different categories but their overall reviews are not averaged. BTW how did you get a review copy?

Don’t tell me you actually fall for the major gaming companies "reviews" as being legit. If that is the case you have a lot to learn about how the industry is run.
Click to expand...
How is it run?
 
[quote name='iamsmart']The site is called krakrabbit, the CAG user posting the review it is called krakrabbit... I think it's safe to assume we can address krakrabbit directly instead of referring to a third party.How is it run?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I don't really remember people very well.

EDIT: Okay, I'll throw one little bit into the "what makes you legitimate" stew. If you have to go back and add to your review and change the scoring and all that shit because you were in such a rush to get up it up faster than morning wood?

Bad sign.
 
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[quote name='iamsmart']The site is called krakrabbit, the CAG user posting the review it is called krakrabbit... I think it's safe to assume we can address krakrabbit directly instead of referring to a third party.


A good start is when it shows up on metacritic. I also tend to be wary of small sites that get their reviews out before everyone else; it's usually something of an indicator that they either didn't play it completely, or maybe didn't play it at all, whatever the case it seems like they are trolling for hits. You have gameplay videos so from what I can tell you HAVE played it, but I gotta agree that I'm not learning alot from the review, there's alot more overviewing than there is critiquing. I also don't think it's a good idea to give the game a 10 for online when it is completely offline either... if you're concerned about it affecting the overall score then you should probably change the way your scores are calculated. IGN scores different categories but their overall reviews are not averaged. BTW how did you get a review copy?


How is it run?[/QUOTE]


As we already pointed out in the review. It is rare for games to not have MP but we did not feel Skyrim should be dinged for not having it. We felt the overall score of the game deserved to be a 10 out of 10. This is a rare occurrence and does not warrant an entire change in our scoring model.
 
[quote name='iamsmart']

A good start is when it shows up on metacritic. I also tend to be wary of small sites that get their reviews out before everyone else; it's usually something of an indicator that they either didn't play it completely, or maybe didn't play it at all, whatever the case it seems like they are trolling for hits.

[/QUOTE]

If you enjoy the reviews from sites that are on Meta so be it. Not everyone is in love with the giant gaming review sites and I am just offering people out there another source for reviews. It’s not like I am asking you to send me a check or click on ads or anything like that. I mean really, what harm is going to come to you from checking out Independent gaming review sites?
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Yeah, I don't really remember people very well.

EDIT: Okay, I'll throw one little bit into the "what makes you legitimate" stew. If you have to go back and add to your review and change the scoring and all that shit because you were in such a rush to get up it up faster than morning wood?

Bad sign.[/QUOTE]

If you bothered to read how we do the reviews you will even see that we do go back and offer up a final overview of the game. We do go back and adjust shit if it needs to be. This provides the people that are interested in the game the best information in the quickest amount of time.

We are not trying to pull the wool over anyone’s eyes. We put everything out there in the review and clearly note any changes we have made. Maybe if you took the time to read the introduction to the review you would already understand how we run the show.

Geez, some of you guys act like you are being forced to do things you detest. I didn’t put a gun to your head and make you read the review or watch the videos. If you don't like the review, that's cool. If you don't like the game, that's cool too. Don’t agree with the scoring, that’s fine. You can even leave your own review on the site when you play it and give it your own personal score.
 
You never answered my question, das
103109_kraken_2.jpg
160px-Rabbitpooh.jpg
 
I hate to be "that guy" but that review was not well written.
Sorry bud.
This game isn't still under embargo? I know many of the major sites have had copies of the game for weeks, but haven't been allowed to post their reviews...
 
[quote name='linkpwns']I hate to be "that guy" but that review was not well written.
Sorry bud.
[/QUOTE]

No worries. Like the review or not it really makes no difference. In the end I am offering something for nothing and people still find the time to whine and bitch about it. It is not just here on CAG, or the Internet it is an entire generation…an "entitlement generation" if you will. :whistle2:#
 
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