Limited Run Games Thread - Nothing is Limited, We Make Everything Now!

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Please move all off-topic and non-game related discussion (such as reselling, or he who shall not be named) to the other thread below,

LRG Off-Topic Discussion Thread

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Props to Cheapy for keeping the OP updated. :3
 
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NolbertoS said:
So on GAF there saying its gonna be a loss for them most likely and the preorder method, won't wver be used most likely. If they switch to first come first serve, I'm all good. Nobody can ever bitch that pre-prders are the better option to sell limited print games.
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The whole premise of the business is "limited", so why anyone is shocked that a not limited game doesn't sell as well as a limited one, shows just how clueless the loud mob actually was.

Does anyone honestly think the NES/SNES Mini are selling because it's some great and wondrous device? No, it's because there isn't enough to go around.

 
NolbertoS said:
So on GAF there saying its gonna be a loss for them most likely and the preorder method, won't wver be used most likely. If they switch to first come first serve, I'm all good. Nobody can ever bitch that pre-prders are the better option to sell limited print games.
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People will still bitch; they only care about themselves. At least some members here appreciate things from the company's perspective.

More than anything it should be a lesson that social networking is never a good feedback system.

 
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I didn't know there was a discussion thread either as I only ever visit the deals section.

Back to discussion at hand, At least they gave it a try and tomorrow we'll hopefully get word from Josh or Doug about how things went. If they didn't try, people would never let it go and the complaints were becoming tiresome. I realize those comments will not stop entirely, but it would at the very least deter them for awhile.

chrislaustin said:
Does anyone honestly think the NES/SNES Mini are selling because it's some great and wondrous device?
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But they are great and wondrous devices.
 
itzd4n said:
Back to discussion at hand, At least they gave it a try and tomorrow we'll hopefully get word from Josh or Doug about how things went. If they didn't try, people would never let it go and the complaints were becoming tiresome. I realize those comments will not stop entirely, but it would at the very least deter them for awhile.
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Well, we're already seeing that same crowd explaining what went wrong, so as I've stated before, it was a lose/lose no matter what. Now this idea was shown to be bad, but the same group will continue to state how it was done wrong, everyone was broke, the game isn't popular, etc.

Honestly, this should be a wake up call to Josh and Doug, to stop listening to "noise", as this will be the outcome each and every time. Now that doesn't mean to stop listening to constructive criticism in regards to matters that need to be addressed, but as far as offering a limited game, keep them limited, and try to get as close as you can to meeting actual demand. If you guys miss the mark sometimes, so what?

 
The folks in the neogaf thread that have been tracking sales through the webpage source are saying Ys Origin has sold some 13,000 copies total. So already it's the highest selling game with Skullgirls coming in second. Still it's like going to be declared a failure since supposedly they upped the expectations to 15,000 total. Still the clock isn't up so we'll see tomorrow how good/bad Ys did. I won't be shocked this being their highest sellling game ever and somehow it'll be labeled a failure when the numbers the expected from preorders were so much higher than their original plan. Just wait.

One thing I can say without a doubt is this release is the first one I've seen for a somewhat popular release where there are loads of positive posts. The resellers are pissed but the feedback on twitter, neogaf, and here has been overly positive about today's shopping experience. It would be stupid to take all this positivity and turn away from doing this again. Hopefully they think hard with how they respond to the sales. Positivity can go a lot further than another bummer declaration of failure. Especially when their top selling games are both preorders.
 
Sounds like "folks tracking sales" are way off one way or another. I think I've seen about 5 figures at least 3000 units different.
 
nightc1 said:
The folks in the neogaf thread that have been tracking sales through the webpage source are saying Ys Origin has sold some 13,000 copies total. So already it's the highest selling game with Skullgirls coming in second. Still it's like going to be declared a failure since supposedly they upped the expectations to 15,000 total. Still the clock isn't up so we'll see tomorrow how good/bad Ys did. I won't be shocked this being their highest sellling game ever and somehow it'll be labeled a failure when the numbers the expected from preorders were so much higher than their original plan. Just wait.

One thing I can say without a doubt is this release is the first one I've seen for a somewhat popular release where there are loads of positive posts. The resellers are pissed but the feedback on twitter, neogaf, and here has been overly positive about today's shopping experience. It would be stupid to take all this positivity and turn away from doing this again. Hopefully they think hard with how they respond to the sales. Positivity can go a lot further than another bummer declaration of failure. Especially when their top selling games are both preorders.
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Assuming that info is accurate, 13000 out of 15000 sounds decent. Could probably sell through the remainder fairly quickly if orders were left open longer.

Also agree with your last point, this is definitely the most amount of positivity I've seen for a release.

 
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nightc1 said:
The folks in the neogaf thread that have been tracking sales through the webpage source are saying Ys Origin has sold some 13,000 copies total. So already it's the highest selling game with Skullgirls coming in second. Still it's like going to be declared a failure since supposedly they upped the expectations to 15,000 total. Still the clock isn't up so we'll see tomorrow how good/bad Ys did. I won't be shocked this being their highest sellling game ever and somehow it'll be labeled a failure when the numbers the expected from preorders were so much higher than their original plan. Just wait.

One thing I can say without a doubt is this release is the first one I've seen for a somewhat popular release where there are loads of positive posts. The resellers are pissed but the feedback on twitter, neogaf, and here has been overly positive about today's shopping experience. It would be stupid to take all this positivity and turn away from doing this again. Hopefully they think hard with how they respond to the sales. Positivity can go a lot further than another bummer declaration of failure. Especially when their top selling games are both preorders.
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The initial quantities by LRG for Ys was 7500 for the PS4 and 6500 for the Vita. That's 14,000 they had anticipated to sell. Of course they would want to sell more for this to be a success. If they're going to sell the same, or fewer, copies than they had originally anticipated then there's no reason to do the preorder. Print the games and have them ready to be shipped the next week as "usual".
 
nightc1 said:
The folks in the neogaf thread that have been tracking sales through the webpage source are saying Ys Origin has sold some 13,000 copies total. So already it's the highest selling game with Skullgirls coming in second. Still it's like going to be declared a failure since supposedly they upped the expectations to 15,000 total. Still the clock isn't up so we'll see tomorrow how good/bad Ys did. I won't be shocked this being their highest sellling game ever and somehow it'll be labeled a failure when the numbers the expected from preorders were so much higher than their original plan. Just wait.

One thing I can say without a doubt is this release is the first one I've seen for a somewhat popular release where there are loads of positive posts. The resellers are pissed but the feedback on twitter, neogaf, and here has been overly positive about today's shopping experience. It would be stupid to take all this positivity and turn away from doing this again. Hopefully they think hard with how they respond to the sales. Positivity can go a lot further than another bummer declaration of failure. Especially when their top selling games are both preorders.
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Y's was previously stated to be 5000 SE and 3000 SE just like NT and WB if I remember right. 15k is nearly breaking even with the fixed print size they had planned and is the same as the number of people estimated to have tried to check out with Night Trap.

Success should be considered selling at least the same as the original fixed quantity, not jacking up expectations. Taking care that sometimes even what you think should have sold often misses the target anyway. If you can sell that same amount of copies as you would have fixed, except resellers are driven away despite the game still being just as limited as it was going to be (same quantity sold), how is that a failure? Keep in mind NT and WB were not on vita and only sold 8000 copies so 15000 copies seems pretty successful. If anything it may be slightly overprinted due to being two platforms. The were originally debating not even doing 8000 each due to Play Asia's release?

The bar shouldn't be raised by some arbitrary factor to try to make preordering look bad. If the original quantity sells out in a weekend when unlimited ordering for 24 hours, its the same amount of copies moved either way. And preorders or not, LRG is always going to have a certain quantity in mind and it is often going to go under or over that mark with or without preorders.

Don't let this turn into "Call of Duty syndrome" where a game that used be considered successful at 100k units is suddenly a failure because it doesn't sell 10m units "like Call of Duty".

 
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csbaker-az said:
Y's was previously stated to be 5000 SE and 3000 SE just like NT and WB if I remember right. 15k is nearly breaking even with the fixed print size they had planned and is the same as the number of people estimated to have tried to check out with Night Trap.

Success should be considered selling the same as the original fixed quantity, not jacking up expectations. If you can sell that same amount of copies as you would have fixed, except resellers are driven away despite the game still being just as limited as it was going to be (same quantity sold), how is that a failure? Keep in mind NT and WB were not on vita and only sold 8000 copies so 15000 copies seems pretty successful. If anything it may be slightly overprinted due to being two platforms. The were originally debating not even doing 8000 each due to Play Asia's release?

The bar shouldn't be raised by some arbitrary factor to try to make preordering look bad. If the original quantity sells out in a weekend when unlimited ordering for 24 hours, its the same amount of copies moved either way. And preorders or not, LRG is always going to have a certain quantity in mind and it is often going to go under or over that mark with or without preorders.
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The idea was that there weren't enough copies to meet the demand, which is why the preorder model was adopted. At this point, that isn't looking like the case. Why take the risk of preorders if they gain nothing from it? The previous model is more than proven and has actually brought a lot of attention to LRG.
 
KingofGames said:
The idea was that there weren't enough copies to meet the demand, which is why the preorder model was adopted. At this point, that isn't looking like the case. Why take the risk of preorders if they gain nothing from it? The previous model is more than proven and has actually brought a lot of attention to LRG.
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That was assumed based on the fervor for NT and WB which was always going to have half as many copies printed than Y's in the first place just because Y's was on two platforms.

This instance seems to just be a wash due to numerous circumstance but that doesn't make it a failure since it appears all originally decided quantities will be sold regardless.

 
Oh goodie LRG agrees:

Ys is trending to end just around where we had initially planned so this wasn't necessarily an unsuccessful attempt.

Same units but those units ended up in the directly in the hands of people who want it rather than resellers.  That's a win.

 
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I, for one, loved the preorder model and would buy a lot more games from LRG if they kept doing it. I put my money where my mouth is and not only bought a copy, but I also picked up a collector's edition knowing I could go for one and not lose out on a standard copy.

So, thanks to the preorder option, LRG got an extra $55 from me today.
 
KingofGames said:
The idea was that there weren't enough copies to meet the demand, which is why the preorder model was adopted. At this point, that isn't looking like the case. Why take the risk of preorders if they gain nothing from it? The previous model is more than proven and has actually brought a lot of attention to LRG.
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Exactly.

Can't imagine a huge avalanche of pre-orders coming in during the night, so it's going to end up around the original estimate. Pretty disappointing for everyone who talked about how much better pre-orders would be for selling more copies.

 
A big impact will be based on what happens to the secondary market. Same number of sales probably less scalpers which will probably mean less perceived value. That's very important to drive these releases - and a big risk when scalper numbers drop off more with future similar window sales.

The "buzz" is really beneficial.
 
i bought a ps4 ys standard copy effortlessly and with more sleep involved.
i might of missed out like i did with wonderboy & sleep if this wasn't preorder style.
 
I don't want to derail the discussion, but did anyone know Oceanhorn for the Vita is going for crazy dollars on Ebay? A few over a hundred, a couple more around $90, and then a few in the above $70. All in the last week, Holy Shit! Mybe it's due to not a lot in the wild yet, and huys are paying now so they don't miss out.

Mine just showed up today, and I was getting ready to crack it open and play some tonight, so I said....What the hell, let me see what the value is on this before I open it. Now, I'm not sure if I should. Damn, I hate when games go up in value like this. Now my need to earn a dollar and keep the games value, is outweighing my need to play OceanHorn.

 
csbaker-az said:
Oh goodie LRG agrees:

Ys is trending to end just around where we had initially planned so this wasn't necessarily an unsuccessful attempt.

Same units but those units ended up in the directly in the hands of people who want it rather than resellers. That's a win.
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Good news. Can definitely see this model working out the same for releases of similar caliber. Smaller indie games should stick with the standard release model for obvious reason.

 
Thank you Josh and LRG, this was my first purchase and hopefully not last. I understand that this way might not be ideal for your company but it helps people like me who has responsibilities and that can't be a computer trying to fight bots and scalpers. Had this preorder idea been done from the get go, I'd have had plenty of your other published games in my collection. 

 
I ordered one of each Ys standard edition and one PS4 CE. Would like to see the preorder model work for some releases, at least the really popular ones. I did order both versions of Skullgirls as well. With or without the preorder model, these games will all have much lower production runs than the vast majority of regular physical releases, so in the long run they're bound to hold their value (or increase, with a few exceptions).
 
Speaking as a first-time user of LRG, the Ys CE preorders really turned me off and I don't know that I'd bother trying for another LRG title again. 10-minute sellout windows are a real bummer, especially since it turns out the system doesn't reserve you a copy while you're checking out.

I understand the concept of limited games and that you can only make so many, but I'm definitely a firm believer in the more traditional "pay upfront and secure a copy before production numbers are finalized" limited preorder model over this sort of bloodbath.

 
KiraV said:
Speaking as a first-time user of LRG, the Ys CE preorders really turned me off and I don't know that I'd bother trying for another LRG title again. 10-minute sellout windows are a real bummer, especially since it turns out the system doesn't reserve you a copy while you're checking out.

I understand the concept of limited games and that you can only make so many, but I'm definitely a firm believer in the more traditional "pay upfront and secure a copy before production numbers are finalized" limited preorder model over this sort of bloodbath.
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/s ?

CEs where up FOREVER comparatively. They usually sell out in less than 60 seconds.

 
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kevinmlssu said:
Thank you Josh and LRG, this was my first purchase and hopefully not last. I understand that this way might not be ideal for your company but it helps people like me who has responsibilities and that can't be a computer trying to fight bots and scalpers.
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Agreed.

Everybody who was able to get a copy before that who wasn't a scalper or a bot clearly have no responsibilities neither.

I can just picture them in their lawn chairs on a beach, sipping through a straw from their tiny coconut cups with a tiny umbrella in it with a laptop in their lap waiting to buy a copy.

Damn them all to hell.

 
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Well, if it makes anyone feel better, people with in hand copies of Night Trap have started putting them on eBay, and prices are starting to drop. Lots of listings as low as $80 for the standard still available. I would bet by early next week when eBay is flooded with standard and collectors editions, prices will settle at $60 or less for the standard and maybe $100-$120 for the collectors
 
I got a Y's Origin ps4 CE because shit I just like the series.   I started in the early/mid 90's renting Y's 3 on snes.  I've got the three psp LE, the DS Books 1 & 2, ps2 and preordered the Y's 8 LE on ps4 soon as they offered it.  I think I have the anime dvd's of I know a Y's anime somewhere around here too.  I just like having / collecting games I enjoy.  And having a disk copy incase digital is taken away someday.  Or a HDD failure later on or whatever.  I know I've got what 3 of the steam versions as well too.

 
KiraV said:
Speaking as a first-time user of LRG, the Ys CE preorders really turned me off and I don't know that I'd bother trying for another LRG title again. 10-minute sellout windows are a real bummer, especially since it turns out the system doesn't reserve you a copy while you're checking out.

I understand the concept of limited games and that you can only make so many, but I'm definitely a firm believer in the more traditional "pay upfront and secure a copy before production numbers are finalized" limited preorder model over this sort of bloodbath.
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Lol, if you think a ten minute order window is bad you should just leave this thread and never look back at lrg
 
Jurai said:
Lol, if you think a ten minute order window is bad you should just leave this thread and never look back at lrg
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So true, as 10 minutes would satisfy just about anyone, for any item, at any time. Hell, if I had 10 minutes on any LRG, I would probably not even pre-sign in to their site and Paypal, as I would have more than enough time to place an order.

10 minutes, some people don't know how good they have it. LOL

 
Man, in 10 minutes, I can make a cup of coffee, make toast, fry some eggs and bacon, sit down when ready and log on to LRG and order my games. Man, wish Inhad that eternity to order.
 
Jurai said:
Lol, if you think a ten minute order window is bad you should just leave this thread and never look back at lrg
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Oh, I know that by some standards 10 minutes is an eternity. I've done some F5 mashing sessions over the years, but I've always found it pretty miserable. Doesn't it strike you that the perspective that this is how it *has* to or *should* be is somewhat twisted? There are more pleasant ways to do limited runs, though my experience with those has mostly been with DVDs and I'll admit game carts could be trickier.
 
KiraV said:
Oh, I know that by some standards 10 minutes is an eternity. I've done some F5 mashing sessions over the years, but I've always found it pretty miserable. Doesn't it strike you that the perspective that this is how it *has* to or *should* be is somewhat twisted? There are more pleasant ways to do limited runs, though my experience with those has mostly been with DVDs and I'll admit game carts could be trickier.
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There's a reason their company name has the word limited in it, and Ys is showing that the limited copies hype is driving their business model more than anything
 
Jurai said:
There's a reason their company name has the word limited in it, and Ys is showing that the limited copies hype is driving their business model more than anything
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I totally get the idea of small print runs and the hype that limits can generate. I guess I just would have liked the CE to run on the same time-limited, manufacture-on-demand preorder model as the standard.

24 hours is a pretty reasonable amount of time to make something available, and would still (at least in my mind) be plenty limited. Being thrilled with 10-minute shots that fall when a lot of people are at work or on their way home seems a little like Stockholm syndrome. Yes, it could be a lot worse, but it could be better too.
 
KiraV said:
Oh, I know that by some standards 10 minutes is an eternity. I've done some F5 mashing sessions over the years, but I've always found it pretty miserable. Doesn't it strike you that the perspective that this is how it *has* to or *should* be is somewhat twisted? There are more pleasant ways to do limited runs, though my experience with those has mostly been with DVDs and I'll admit game carts could be trickier.
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It could cost them thousands of dollars if it doesn't sell out within a reasonable amount of time (around 2ish weeks since it funds the next run) and could even end their company.

CEs are meant to be limited.

 
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Olengie said:
It could cost them thousands of dollars if it doesn't sell out within a reasonable amount of time (around 2ish weeks since it funds the next run) and could even end their company.
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If they're still only surviving week-by-week at this point, then what they're doing isn't working anyway.

 
chrislaustin said:
I don't want to derail the discussion, but did anyone know Oceanhorn for the Vita is going for crazy dollars on Ebay? A few over a hundred, a couple more around $90, and then a few in the above $70. All in the last week, Holy Shit! Mybe it's due to not a lot in the wild yet, and huys are paying now so they don't miss out.

Mine just showed up today, and I was getting ready to crack it open and play some tonight, so I said....What the hell, let me see what the value is on this before I open it. Now, I'm not sure if I should. Damn, I hate when games go up in value like this. Now my need to earn a dollar and keep the games value, is outweighing my need to play OceanHorn.
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Dude, just do it. Open it. Unless you really need the money or something, open it, savior the physical copy in your hand, and play it.

My copy is still in the mail but when I get it I'm tearing that sucker open.

 
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Modus Pwnens said:
If they're still only surviving week-by-week at this point, then what they're doing isn't working anyway.
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I don't think they are riding quite as close to sink or swim as they originally were, but they probably still can't risk sitting on thousands of units if something flops

 
Lol "let's take the highest print run game we've made so far, which has already been available in another country, and judge every other preorder on that".
 
LRG dudes really seem on point with their expected demand numbers for most releases. I guess the intangibles of how they want to move those items are what they have to figure out.
 
KiraV said:
I totally get the idea of small print runs and the hype that limits can generate. I guess I just would have liked the CE to run on the same time-limited, manufacture-on-demand preorder model as the standard.

24 hours is a pretty reasonable amount of time to make something available, and would still (at least in my mind) be plenty limited. Being thrilled with 10-minute shots that fall when a lot of people are at work or on their way home seems a little like Stockholm syndrome. Yes, it could be a lot worse, but it could be better too.
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You could have easily ordered the Ys CE from your cellphone (I did), it wasn't a hard to get CE at all. Don't blame LRG because you forgot about it, that's on you.
 
Just a heads up, but Asdivine is down to 11% for the PS4, and the Vita is at 5%.

This actually sold very well, as I didn't really know what to expect from this title, as mobile RPG's aren't really something most have interest in. This seemed like one of the more well received Kemco titles in regards to reviews, so I was happy to get a copy.

 
Alright, so that was YsO... 

So what's next? Anyone know what September is gonna bring us? I'm hoping for a break... unless it's S&S. 

 
Vinny said:
Alright, so that was YsO...

So what's next? Anyone know what September is gonna bring us? I'm hoping for a break... unless it's S&S.
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S&S is tentatively scheduled for October. For September they only have two PS4 games that are TBD and the Shadow Warrior 2 variant and probably the Ys PAX variant. So, there will be quite a slowdown.

 
315Retro said:
Lol "let's take the highest print run game we've made so far, which has already been available in another country, and judge every other preorder on that".
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Lol, let's change the goal posts for what we claimed was going to be a massively successful business model change just because it doesn't appear to have gone the way we hoped. Seriously, you armchair CEOs need to give it a rest as this is just another confirming data point that is consistent with not just past LRG preorders, but with what other companies have experienced doing preorders on these niche titles. Maybe LRG will decide that the sales loss is worth it in exchange for generally happier potential customers, but there is no way anyone should draw the conclusion that preorders resulted in higher sales than the previous model.

 
chimpmeister said:
You could have easily ordered the Ys CE from your cellphone (I did), it wasn't a hard to get CE at all. Don't blame LRG because you forgot about it, that's on you.
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You're right, it's on me. There was an opportunity (however brief,) I missed it, and it sucks. My dedication was obviously lacking.

I still think that the level of availability measured in minutes rather than hours is crazy and would qualify as hard to get, but I guess I'm just not cut out for the LRG market. If they adopt the preorder model for CEs I'll give it another go, but until then I'm out.

Just wanted to speak up for people like myself who like nice limited editions and will pay up in advance but may not be willing or able to work with this system and precise timing required. I'm not saying they should keep preorders open forever like a regular run or even as long as, say, Gaijinworks does, but I would have liked a more accessible window than we got with 10 and 6. The same 24 hours as the SE would have been great and given plenty of time for word to get around and even busy people to get an order in.
 
He was just saying that the intangibles involved in this release kind of make it an outlier in general. It's not a good model for what to expect with other "window" sales.

I think he's right. It's a title that's been around for over a decade in many forms etc etc.
 
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