Shopping Morality Thread

[quote name='White-Wolf']what about the ps3? Is it right to resell a system on launch day? what kind of gamer would sell thier game system before they play it? I dont mean to hijack this thread but my thread was closed and i was told to go here. so here i am. What do you think will happen when the launch price ebay bubble bursts? what kind of repercusions could this have on the game industry?[/quote]

My opinion is that people should be able to do what they want. They paid for it, now it's theirs. They can sell it, keep it, play it, destroy it, whatever. If people are stupid enough to pay $1000 over retail for a system, let them have it then. The 'ebay bubble' will burst eventually and the price will go down when the system becomes more readily available. There were no repercusions on the game industry with the 360 and there won't be with the PS3.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']
The whole purpose of the b2g1 is to purchase games for gifts ahead of time, so its quite possible that someone could come in with a return from one of these sales after christmas.[/quote]


But the receipt says only 45 days to return :)
 
[quote name='Trakan']My opinion is that people should be able to do what they want. They paid for it, now it's theirs. They can sell it, keep it, play it, destroy it, whatever. If people are stupid enough to pay $1000 over retail for a system, let them have it then. The 'ebay bubble' will burst eventually and the price will go down when the system becomes more readily available. There were no repercusions on the game industry with the 360 and there won't be with the PS3.[/quote]

technickly, target ect paid for thier systems to sell to you. why can they not charge 2000$ on launch just like eveyone else that buys from them? If sony wont give them systems if they price gauge, why should target then sell that systme to a ebay scalper?
 
[quote name='White-Wolf']technickly, target ect paid for thier systems to sell to you. why can they not charge 2000$ on launch just like eveyone else that buys from them? If sony wont give them systems if they price gauge, why should target then sell that systme to a ebay scalper?[/quote]
Technically, they can do that. $500 and $600 are just the suggested retail prices. They don't do that because they are a reputable business, not an online auction site. Some online sites do take advantage of people and charge more for the systems. It's their right to do so. You don't like it, don't buy it. Nobody is making anybody buy the marked up systems. It can't be more simple.
 
[quote name='Trakan']Technically, they can do that. $500 and $600 are just the suggested retail prices. They don't do that because they are a reputable business, not an online auction site. Some online sites do take advantage of people and charge more for the systems. It's their right to do so. You don't like it, don't buy it. Nobody is making anybody buy the marked up systems. It can't be more simple.[/QUOTE]

Actually Sony is telling them what to sell it for in this case. If Target or anyone else were to sell it for less, Sony would discontinue supplying that chain.

Other than that, I agree with Trakan. If you don't like the price somewhere, don't buy from them. They have the right to charge whatever they want generally, just as you have the right to not purchase an item from them. There is nothing unethical about it in my mind. It's not like this is a need item and people are going to die unless they own one.

As to why Target would sell the item - they have no way of knowing what someone will do with an item once it is sold to them, nor should they. It would open up a whole different can of worms if they started only selling to certain people.
 
[quote name='White-Wolf']I agree that target cant do anything to stop someone from scalping, but seeing this thread about what happend in japan, its just sad.

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/foreigners-and-fights-ps3-jpn-launchs-dark-side-214130.php

I know this link has been posted, else were on gheap ass gamer, but it just strikes a nerv. Im so glad the wii is comeing out though, if it wasent, i would have to say that the fun in gameing is dead.[/QUOTE]

I fail to see how this kills the "fun in gaming" you speak of. Don't you mean "fun in buying games and gouging prices"? How other people react ot a new console's release has no effect on how much I enjoy games.


As for selling it on eBay - there's totally nothing wrong with it. If people wish to pay a premium to avoid standing in line, and others are willing to stand in line to charge that premium, then I see no problem.
 
[quote name='White-Wolf']I agree that target cant do anything to stop someone from scalping, but seeing this thread about what happend in japan, its just sad.

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/foreigners-and-fights-ps3-jpn-launchs-dark-side-214130.php

I know this link has been posted, else were on gheap ass gamer, but it just strikes a nerv. Im so glad the wii is comeing out though, if it wasent, i would have to say that the fun in gameing is dead.[/QUOTE]

Why is it sad? If someone wants one to play, they could have gotten into line early and waited just lie those "opportunists" did. I fail to see how the Wii is better just because people aren't lining up for it in the same way. If anything, it's just a symbol of how far Nintendo has fallen as far as mass appeal goes.
 
[quote name='greendj27']Why is it sad? If someone wants one to play, they could have gotten into line early and waited just lie those "opportunists" did. I fail to see how the Wii is better just because people aren't lining up for it in the same way. If anything, it's just a symbol of how far Nintendo has fallen as far as mass appeal goes.[/quote]

or how they're meeting demand with a much larger supply of systems at launch, thus preventing fans from having to pile up nuts-to-butts just to get one.
 
[quote name='allyourblood']or how they're meeting demand with a much larger supply of systems at launch, thus preventing fans from having to pile up nuts-to-butts just to get one.[/QUOTE]

Ok, now that's just ridiculous. Sony planned on having more available but was not able to. It's in their best interest tp have more because they would be able to sell more games for the holidays with more systems being sold. Remember that Sony is actually losing money on each system but making it up on the games.
 
[quote name='greendj27']Ok, now that's just ridiculous. Sony planned on having more available but was not able to. It's in their best interest tp have more because they would be able to sell more games for the holidays with more systems being sold. Remember that Sony is actually losing money on each system but making it up on the games.[/quote]
don't misread me -- i agree 100% that Sony would like to have 5 million PS3s available at launch (or more!). they want to get it into the hands of as many people as possible. but that's not what we were talking about. from your post, you sounded like Nintendo wasn't generating those same pushing, shoving, maniacal crowds because their system isn't meeting with public demand or appeal -- and that's ridiculous. i was simply stating that perhaps you don't see these psychotic swarms of people fighting with other people because they won't have to! there will, more likely than not, be plenty of Wii systems to go around. not because there are only 80,000 people waiting to buy one, but because there will be enough systems (however the heck much) to reasonably meet initial demand.
 
[quote name='allyourblood']don't misread me -- i agree 100% that Sony would like to have 5 million PS3s available at launch (or more!). they want to get it into the hands of as many people as possible. but that's not what we were talking about. from your post, you sounded like Nintendo wasn't generating those same pushing, shoving, maniacal crowds because their system isn't meeting with public demand or appeal -- and that's ridiculous. i was simply stating that perhaps you don't see these psychotic swarms of people fighting with other people because they won't have to! there will, more likely than not, be plenty of Wii systems to go around. not because there are only 80,000 people waiting to buy one, but because there will be enough systems (however the heck much) to reasonably meet initial demand.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't implying that there wasn't demand for thw Wii. Just that the PS3 has more demand right now.
 
If target were to sell their ps3's for 1000 or 2000 as another poster pointed out they could get in a lot of trouble for not keeping the manufacturer's retail price, i know nintendo sets a manufacturer's price and if you as the retailer set the price too high or too low they will refuse to ship consoles to that particular store or corporation, the same happens if you release a game or a system before the set release date.

Sony and nintendo and every other manufacturer sets a retail price for their games and systems, usually 29.99-34.99 for a ds or gba game, and the price of the systems is set to 249.99 and 500 or 600$. A store can set a system or a game to 5-10$ above or below retail price but setting it 10$ above is usually not a good idea as no one will buy from your store if you do that, that is why game prices vary between stores by a small amount, however if you were to sell a game for 30-40$ above msrp that is not allowed.

I remember back when Ty beanie babies were hot many retailers were selling them for way above msrp which was 4.99 or 5.99 at the time (instead of this they were selling for $15-30 each), these stores lost future shipments from Ty, and Ty was also encouraging users to report cases of overpricing so it could be dealt with.

It's is also called price gouging and is illegal in many areas, and i believe its illegal where i live as well. Stores may not price gouge due to the fact that demand is up. I have seen a few cases of this here with air conditioners and food items during the october storm.

Scalping for tickets is allowed where i live as long as you are not selling the ticket for more than 30% of its face value, anything more than that is illegal. Scalping for retail products is not illegal by any means unless a law has recently been put into effect where i live lol, however it is risky, you may recieve counterfiet cash/bad check etc also risk of getting your item stolen during the transaction or by another scalper/buyer.
 
Tell me, is it wrong to sell a new PS3 or Wii if you intend to use the profit to buy another one for yourself? With my budget I simply cannot afford to shell out the money for a PS3 or Wii. However, I sold my PS3 yesterday to someone for double the cost and have half that money stashed away so in the event I come across another PS3, I will be able to to afford it.

I know there are tons of money grubbers out there, but in my case with what I did in keeping it 'for the sake of the game' is it still shady?
 
[quote name='saadman']I know there are tons of money grubbers out there, but in my case with what I did in keeping it 'for the sake of the game' is it still shady?[/QUOTE]

Yes, it's shady.
 
Sell it or keep it, your choice.

Mine is up on eBay, ends next Friday afternoon (happy Black Friday to me). This morning, about 15 minutes ago, the things were selling for less than $1500. I expect prices to be all over the place the next few days.

I don't have any expectations of what I will get. If it doesn't reach my reserve, then I'll try again later. Either way, I have no problem with selling or keeping. Its a personal choice.

The sad thing, is that people are getting hurts, robbed, etc in the process. Its just a matter of time before somone hurt tries to blame Sony.

TBW
 
[quote name='Collectordragon']Yes, it's shady.[/QUOTE]

No, it's capitalism. Businesses do it all the time-- buy low and sell high. Since when is making a profit from those who are willing to buy from you a sin?!! Supply and demand in the free world works that way.

Steve
 
These stores that we're discussing; did they ever commit immoral acts?

- like forcing workers to work overtime w/o pay? (common)
- fire workers because they tried to form a union? (wal-mart)
- dump americans; hire cheap asians (overseas)?
- lay-off workers & shut-down store w/o notice?
- refuse to give lunch breaks?
- purposefully damage items that are selling poorly, file a false 'received damaged' return on the store-damaged item, and ship those items to the manufacturer to get back $$$?
- (other immoral acts we're not aware of)
- et cetera

If these stores lack morality & commit immoral acts toward their workers, customers, or suppliers? Why should we be moral to these Immoral Stores? (Not fraud like counterfeit coupons, but taking advantage of pricing or register or return errors, .) Having worked retail & seen the rampant dishonesty of stores to their workers & customers I tend to view Stores as Immoral entities run by men who routinely commit immoral acts.
 
[quote name='fred_h_haddad']These stores that we're discussing; did they ever commit immoral acts?

- like forcing workers to work overtime w/o pay? (common)
- fire workers because they tried to form a union? (wal-mart)
- dump americans; hire cheap asians (overseas)?
- lay-off workers & shut-down store w/o notice?
- refuse to give lunch breaks?
- purposefully damage items that are selling poorly, file a false 'received damaged' return on the store-damaged item, and ship those items to the manufacturer to get back $$$?
- (other immoral acts we're not aware of)
- et cetera

If these stores lack morality & commit immoral acts toward their workers, customers, or suppliers? Why should we be moral to these Immoral Stores? (Not fraud like counterfeit coupons, but taking advantage of pricing or register or return errors, .) Having worked retail & seen the rampant dishonesty of stores to their workers & customers I tend to view Stores as Immoral entities run by men who routinely commit immoral acts.[/QUOTE]

So instead of trying to be better than them you sink to their level and thus have no right to criticize them because you are no better.
 
Yes. When dealing with immoral people sometimes you must take on immoral behaviors (firebombing of Dresden, targeting civilian housing districts in Berlin, shooting down armed criminals). If you take advtage of a Misprint in a Sears advertisement you're just recovering money that Sears scammed out of another customer's (or worker's) pocket. Stealing from a thief.

(yes Sears Protection Agreements == thievery. They rarely come to your house & fix the broken appliance; they use evasion tactics like 'call the manufacturer not us' or 'that part is not covered' to effectively invalidate the PA service plan & steal the $100 you paid for nothing. Grrr.)
 
[quote name='dank']i just printed it out a regular piece of paper, didnt even print out the back. and they were able to scan it in with their gun.[/QUOTE]

Same here.

The e-mail story works best in this situation, if they ask.

If you walk up and blurt out "I GOT IN E-MAIL", they'll be fucking suspicious. If you just answer their question straight, they aren't going to say shit unless they accuse you of lying, which is a no-no in business (As in, complain to management kind of stuff.)
 
[quote name='JasonTerminator']Same here.

The e-mail story works best in this situation, if they ask.

If you walk up and blurt out "I GOT IN E-MAIL", they'll be fucking suspicious. If you just answer their question straight, they aren't going to say shit unless they accuse you of lying, which is a no-no in business (As in, complain to management kind of stuff.)[/QUOTE]

Only if they were told be management like we were, they'd know these coupons weren't emailed to anyone.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Only if they were told be management like we were, they'd know these coupons weren't emailed to anyone.[/QUOTE]

Any manager worth his salt knows that you NEVER accuse a customer of lying, even if they are.

Most managers would override the employee and let you use the coupon, since they'd rather bend the rules a little rather than risk loosing the customer AND a complaint to their higher-ups.
 
[quote name='JasonTerminator']Any manager worth his salt knows that you NEVER accuse a customer of lying, even if they are.

Most managers would override the employee and let you use the coupon, since they'd rather bend the rules a little rather than risk loosing the customer AND a complaint to their higher-ups.[/QUOTE]

Actually employees/managers call people out on lies all the time knowing they are in the right (this being one of those cases, if they paid attetniotn). You pretty much have to if you work customer service or else you'd be constantly ripped off by people. Plus most of our managers aren't worth their salt... Still, corprate knows of people trying to use the coupon in repordcutions, they are the ones that send the directives to the managers/employees. In short complaining to the higher ups won't do anything and some employees (a select few apparently) know this becasue the higher ups are the ones that sent the directive. I know what's obviously fake and I usually take it to a manager regardless, deny it fine, approve it it's their ass not mine. This time of year we are getting constantly slammed by customers so nobody will bother to give it a second thought, but I'm just saying you can be one of the unlucky ones and using the "email story" won't necessarily save you.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Actually employees/managers call people out on lies all the time knowing they are in the right (this being one of those cases, if they paid attetniotn). You pretty much have to if you work customer service or else you'd be constantly ripped off by people. Plus most of our managers aren't worth their salt... Still, corprate knows of people trying to use the coupon in repordcutions, they are the ones that send the directives to the managers/employees. In short complaining to the higher ups won't do anything and some employees (a select few apparently) know this becasue the higher ups are the ones that sent the directive. I know what's obviously fake and I usually take it to a manager regardless, deny it fine, approve it it's their ass not mine. This time of year we are getting constantly slammed by customers so nobody will bother to give it a second thought, but I'm just saying you can be one of the unlucky ones and using the "email story" won't necessarily save you.[/QUOTE]

That's some mighty terrible customer service there, pal.
 
[quote name='JasonTerminator']That's some mighty terrible customer service there, pal.[/QUOTE]

If you say so, but my guess is you haven't worked retail very long or your one of those guys that argues everything with an employee because you think as a customer you can't possibly be in the wrong. If someone lies to me and I've been told be corprate AND management it is a lie, then why in God's name would I just do whatever they want? What about fraudulent returns? some guy says he bought something a week ago when it was really 4 months, or credit card abuse, etc. I had a kid try to purchase a Wii this morning with his dad's card which said "ask for id" on the back. I did it wasn't him, his "dad" said he could it though, but I ccouldn't sell him the wii without his "dad" there using the card. Kid never came back to claim the Wii in the hou rhe had either so my guess is he lied and some guy would've been mighty pissed I charged about $300 to his card without permission. Granted those are actually illegal, but they involve the customer telling a lie and according to you retail employees can't quesiton suspicious lies ever. Now you think I'm saying to outright call him a liar, that's not it. But if someone says "I got this in an email", I simply say... I apoligize sir but that email wasn't from Circuit City, those coupons are only distributed in a certain manner and not via email" See n body got called a liar, but I still didn't get bitched out by my manager for taking a coupon that they specifically told me not to accept (and told me how said coupon was actuall distributed). Also just so you know in the 13 months I've worked at this store I had exactly one customer complaint comeback against me and that was actually not realted to a customer lying at all, but an internet order (which at CC usually creates a bunch of issues unfortunately).
 
dude... the customer is ALWAYS right, that is the policy of all businesses, why the heck would they want someone to bad mouth them and make business bad for them???

also for the person who posted above asking me what time, i was there at Target at 6:30am and my buddy held my spot at CC around 7am...


hahaha, i love this coupon, i'm going to get a 360 HD-DVD DRIVE before the privilege gets abused!
 
Indeed, the customer is always right, even when they are "wrong", they are still right.

Good customer service would be to accept the coupon in the interest of not loosing the customer, as the customer would feel betrayed by Circuit City by them not accepting a coupon.

There is a difference between accepting a copied coupon in the interest of customer service, and facilitating the purchase of stolen merchandise.
 
[quote name='JasonTerminator']Indeed, the customer is always right, even when they are "wrong", they are still right.

Good customer service would be to accept the coupon in the interest of not loosing the customer, as the customer would feel betrayed by Circuit City by them not accepting a coupon.

There is a difference between accepting a copied coupon in the interest of customer service, and facilitating the purchase of stolen merchandise.[/QUOTE]

First you say don't question lying customers, now you say it's okay if it fits your situation. Just like all the customers who are really wrong, but think they are right. And vioating the rules is violating the rules, fraud, coupons, retruns, etc. Any of those I get an ear full of crap at the very least if I do it wrong. The way I've explained has kept my nose clean this long with no complaints, so take from that what you will I guess.

Edit: Also I'll be frank, even corprate doesn't care if they lose a couple customers like you and me. The guys looking for deals like us here on CAG, even if CC doesn't outright say it they view all of us as "devil customers" just like Best Buy blurted out awhile ago. It's not really the righ thing, not evne close really, but CC corprate chalk full of some pretty stupid asses in suits and that's generally their outlook. All they care about is numbers (trust me I get about 3 emails a day filled with numbers no one but them cares to see).

edit2: In the end, this is that last I'll speak of this, the deals forum is not for debate. Plus, hell I don't even like working there that much. I'm just waiting it out til may when I care quit and get a fulltime job finally (college degrees take way too long to finish anymore...)
 
I dont know if this post belongs in this thread but im gonna say what happend to me today. Well im getting out of work heading to the Bank to the drive through ATM machine when im about to put my card in and all of a sudden the lady before me's card pops out and im saying to myself omg wtf is this lady stupid.But since im a kind person i dont even put my card in mind you the Bank is closed the only person inside the Bank was a lady who was going out the backdoor. When I start banging on the front door of the bank showing the card the lady had left well the employee opens the door and i tell her the lady before me forgot her card so she says ok no problem & takes it. Well im heading to my car closing my door all of a sudden the lady who had forgot her card starts banging on the front door and she asks if she had left her card there the employee tells her look that young man over there was the one who returned your bank card mind you this was when im ready to fly outta there im at a stop by know when the lady starts honking her horn at me *Im thinking wtf another asshole behind me who just got there license*. Well I stop and the lady walks up to my car near my window and i ask her what the hell is her problem. She goes to me im so thankful of you returning my card i really appreciate that,I have 100$ i dont know what to do with it would you like these 100$ mind you i was all rdy a bit bent out of shape(dealing with kids and parents thats a whole diff story) and i go to her no thank you i have to get back home. Well the lady being so nice kept on showing me the 100$ that eventually i gave in and took them. I guess that card meant alot to her.
(sorry long post)
 
^I don't get it she insisted on rewarding you, what's the problem?

I returned $200 cash that I found on the ground at my local Goodwill, to the front because someone dropped it in the store. The family who lost it thanked me and I got a 25 or 50% discount that day as reward, so yeah it pays to be the good guy for a change! :)
 
[quote name='saadman']

I know there are tons of money grubbers out there, but in my case with what I did in keeping it 'for the sake of the game' is it still shady?[/quote]


How would that be shady? It is simply a sound business transaction for you. I recently purshased two xbox 360 new for $200 each, I plan on selling one to cover the one I am keeping. This allows me to have the system I would not have had otherwise.

RTB
 
How do you guys feel about price matching Best Buy's clearance price at other stores? I'm talking about taking your reciept to, say, Wal-Mart, and having
them drop the price on some of their games.
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to get a store to PM a clearance price. It's the store's decision to honor it or not (if they say no PM to clearance prices)
 
[quote name='ttriber']I dont know if this post belongs in this thread but im gonna say what happend to me today. Well im getting out of work heading to the Bank to the drive through ATM machine when im about to put my card in and all of a sudden the lady before me's card pops out and im saying to myself omg wtf is this lady stupid.But since im a kind person i dont even put my card in mind you the Bank is closed the only person inside the Bank was a lady who was going out the backdoor. When I start banging on the front door of the bank showing the card the lady had left well the employee opens the door and i tell her the lady before me forgot her card so she says ok no problem & takes it. Well im heading to my car closing my door all of a sudden the lady who had forgot her card starts banging on the front door and she asks if she had left her card there the employee tells her look that young man over there was the one who returned your bank card mind you this was when im ready to fly outta there im at a stop by know when the lady starts honking her horn at me *Im thinking wtf another asshole behind me who just got there license*. Well I stop and the lady walks up to my car near my window and i ask her what the hell is her problem. She goes to me im so thankful of you returning my card i really appreciate that,I have 100$ i dont know what to do with it would you like these 100$ mind you i was all rdy a bit bent out of shape(dealing with kids and parents thats a whole diff story) and i go to her no thank you i have to get back home. Well the lady being so nice kept on showing me the 100$ that eventually i gave in and took them. I guess that card meant alot to her.
(sorry long post)[/QUOTE]

I just...don't understand. :(
 
[quote name='evilmax17']http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134032

A whole thread in the deals forum instructing people to flip? Seems like the wrong forum at least, and should be locked at most.[/QUOTE]

Flipping is a deal, and there is nothing illegal or immoral about it.

You're gonna have to cut down on a lot of threads if you want to cut down flipping, because it comes up often.

It's not like anyone is using a loophole here, or flipping rare clearance games.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Flipping is a deal, and there is nothing illegal or immoral about it.[/quote] I disagree.

[quote name='Roufuss'] You're gonna have to cut down on a lot of threads if you want to cut down flipping, because it comes up often.[/quote] There are places in which to discuss it, and its own thread in the VGD forum is not the right place. The flipping portion of the deal should go in the Far Cry $19.99 thread (or this thread, the Morality discussion thread), and the GS part of the deal is generic. It's not trade 2 Wii games get SPM, it's trade 2 Wii games and get ANY Wii game up to $49.99.

By all accounts the deal is miscategorized, regardless of its morality.
 
So wait, how is flipping wrong? Espicially on two common Wii games?

You're paying full price for the two games at Best Buy, and using a deal Gamestop provides to get a full price game. I'm really not seeing what, exactly, is wrong with that?

Hell, for years the Gamerush thread was nothing BUT flipping games for profit and that even got stickied.

I'm assuming your disagreeing to the immoral part and not the illegal part, since it would be silly to call it illegal unless you were stealing the games.

I agree the thread could be shoved into another thread but I don't see how it's wrong in any way.
 
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