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MinDRIoT

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Having recently acquired a couple of tremendous Arcade1Up machines on sale at a local Walmart. Very tremendous. I thought we needed a dedicated Arcade1Up deals thread to keep track of deals. I know deals people, believe me.
 
These deals are very YMMV but it seems many, many Walmarts are clearing these out right now. Clearing them out. Brickseek links provided where available, check your local stores for price and availability. Brickseek is not 100% accurate though, as I said ... YMMV.

Search your local area, or any ZIP, for in store deals with deals.consolekits.com (Site no longer exists)
 
Asteroids, Major Havoc, Lunar Lander and Tempest - as low as $75 in store, very hard to find or $164.99 online
 
Centipede, Millipede, Missile Command, Crystal Castles - as low as $75 in store, very hard to find or $174.99 online
 
Final Fight, 1944, Ghosts'N Goblins, Strider - as low as $125 in store $150 at Walmart online
 
Galaga, Galaxian - as low as $75 in store $150 at Walmart online

Mortal Kombat I,II & III - as low as $150 in store $199 at Walmart online
 
Pacman, Pacman PLUS - as low as $150 in store
 
Rampage, Gauntlet, Joust, Defender - as low as $75 in store $199 at Walmart online
 
Space Invaders - as low as $75 in store $150 at Walmart online
 
Street Fighter ll - as low as $75 in store $199 at Walmart online
 
Golden Tee - $299 at Walmart

Marvel Superheroes - $299 at Walmart

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Arcade Machine w/ Riser - $349 at Walmart

Star Wars w/riser - $399 at Walmart

Pac-Man Head to Head Arcade Table with Two Pac-Man Gaming Stools (No Galaga or DigDug)- $450 at Sam's

Street Fighter Head to Head Arcade Table - $430 at Walmart

Legends Ultimate Home Arcade Special Edition - $500 at Sam's

 
Arcade1up Riser - $44.88 online or order for instore pickup
 
 
I myself picked up the Final Fight and Rampage machines for $125 each for the Oval Office in the White CatCondo.

 
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Is here anyone collecting air hockey tables or who knows about them more than average person. Here is the list, see the Lumen model with digital scoreboard?  I'm just wondering how often in these systems scoreboards get broken? We just need to order a couple of these tables and I don't want get f*ucked up later, because something is wrong with them, but these look fine to compare with other models from there

 
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GodOfRandom said:
Is here anyone collecting air hockey tables or who knows about them more than average person. Here is the list, see the Lumen model with digital scoreboard? I'm just wondering how often in these systems scoreboards get broken? We just need to order a couple of these tables and I don't want get f*ucked up later, because something is wrong with them, but these look fine to compare with other models from there
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Not collecting, but I have a Sportcraft hockey table I picked up years ago on clearance from Sears for $125. I had to track down a fan for it on Ebay as it was missing from the box. It's been pretty solid so far.

 
doctorwolf said:
I'd recommend staying far away from that SF2 one. That was the first one I ever bought and it was so horrible it almost made me never want to buy another one of these again.
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There a revision that's a slight improvement, but yeah it's pretty bad. They actually released an arcade game where the controllers made it virtually impossible to do some moves on said game. It's also got audio issues on top of that. And I think only ones ordered from Amazon came with a deck protector.

If people didn't gut them anyway, there would have been a lot more complaints.

 
I pre-ordered the Atgames Legends cab from Walmart.com yesterday. To make some space I may purge a few 1ups; if anyone near the Oregon coast is in need just toss me a PM.

 
I wouldn’t expect deep discounts before the new machines. These guys know that new items bring new customers who will seek the older machines. Probably wait for that late new buyer phenomenon to exhaust.
 
numb1ninerfan said:
As a guy who just wanted to get into the 1up craze what would be a good deal for the order models? Thanks in advance
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The lowest reported price I've seen is a $38 one from TJ Maxx, but that was like marked down three or four times. Realistically, the best you can hope for is the ones around $75 that seem to be the bottom of Walmart clearance. They kind of come in waves though, so while for me it wasn't terribly hard to find Rampage/Street Fighter/Galaga/Space Invader at that price, and previously I got Centipede/Asteroids at that price, we haven't really seen signs that the more recent ones are having widespread clearance at that price (yet).

There is some dispersal now though, it's not just Walmart, salvage stores, Facebook marketplace. You can find some in the $100 range, I've seen a couple Pacman's, and some of the dried up clearance ones around that price. So honestly, I'd say if it's something you want, but still want a good deal I'd be looking at something in decent shape for around $100. Remember for the older ones you pretty much have to buy a deck protector and that's about $25 extra.

 
$150 was my "pull the trigger" price. I'm certain you can find them for less but it seemed to be huge pain in the ass in my neck of the woods.

 
numb1ninerfan said:
As a guy who just wanted to get into the 1up craze what would be a good deal for the order models? Thanks in advance
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Almost anything for $75 is insta-buy. Final Fight is worth paying up to $150 (one of the slicker looking older cabs and game selection is great - also comes with a deck protector).

SF2 I would recommend avoiding at any price. It's truly terrible.
 
doctorwolf said:
SF2 I would recommend avoiding at any price. It's truly terrible.
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The major caveat being it is one of the best to mod. If you're not keeping the controllers and the crappy board, you're rid of most of the issues. I noticed that the deck protector goes in and out of stock on the Arcade1Up site though, so I would keep an eye on that if anyone does pull the trigger. Ebay prices were around $40 (shipped) when I checked...

I'd agree that for the later generation ones, $150 is a solid deal if not outright steal on some of them (it's the price I'm looking for on a Marvel cab). To that end, the Marvel cab is just so much better than the SF2 one in my opinion, and I'm not even talking about looks or game selection, just general quality.

 
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Seems like an option for those modding the SF2 cab is instead of an out of stock or over priced deck protector just buy some clear contact paper (usually sold where the shelf/drawer liners are for $5-$6).   Others have gone that route without issue.

 
Dr. Venkman said:
I pre-ordered the Atgames Legends cab from Walmart.com yesterday. To make some space I may purge a few 1ups; if anyone near the Oregon coast is in need just toss me a PM.
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How did you get one? So done posted it was on the site the other day and I ordered one but the bbn order was immediately canceled. I haven't seen it pop back up on the site since.
 
Dr. Venkman said:
I pre-ordered the Atgames Legends cab from Walmart.com yesterday. To make some space I may purge a few 1ups; if anyone near the Oregon coast is in need just toss me a PM.
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How did you get one? Someone posted it was on the site about a week ago and I ordered one but the bbn order was immediately canceled. I haven't seen it pop back up on the site since.
 
Side note, I read that the Atgames Legends cabinets are manufactured in China... which explains the long shipping delay and excellent price. I also expect new inventory may become more scarce due to factory closures from the corona virus.
 
Dr. Venkman said:
I pre-ordered the Atgames Legends cab from Walmart.com yesterday. To make some space I may purge a few 1ups; if anyone near the Oregon coast is in need just toss me a PM.
Click to expand...
How did you get one? Someone posted it was on the site about a week ago and I ordered one but the order was immediately canceled. I haven't seen it pop back up on the site since.
 
Dr. Venkman said:
I pre-ordered the Atgames Legends cab from Walmart.com yesterday. To make some space I may purge a few 1ups; if anyone near the Oregon coast is in need just toss me a PM.
Click to expand...
How did you get one? Someone posted it was on the site about a week ago and I ordered one but the order was immediately canceled. I haven't seen it pop back up on the site since.
 
Sorry about all the multi-posts. I kept getting an error saying the post didn't work.

Anyway, I went back on the site and just searched 'legends ultimate' instead of 'legends Ultimate arcade' and it popped right up. Makes no sense. Either way, I used three different credit cards and every time the order goes through and then immediately canceled. I have no idea what the problem is?
 
RiceQuakes Classic said:
What's wrong with SF2?
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Assuming you are able to get one where the sides or other pieces don't have cosmetic damage (which A1U might as well advertise as a standard feature at this point), the button quality is extremely bad, the monitor is even worse, and the graphics will quickly rub off the control panel with usage (unless you immediately apply a protective cover, which doesn't come with it - newer waves do).

Also, SF2 has been redone well (and recently) on so many systems at this point, playing such an inferior version on A1U just makes it feel like that much more of a step backwards. This is a game that deserves a presentation at least as polished as the MSH unit. Hopefully the anticipated re-release does it justice.

I do understanding how obtaining for modding purposes can be attractive. But after you replace everything that needs it, what are you really buying it for, a couple 1/2" MDF side panels and supports? At that point you may as well just completely build something from scratch with better wood.
 
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doctorwolf said:
Assuming you are able to get one where the sides or other pieces don't have cosmetic damage (which A1U might as well advertise as a standard feature at this point), the button quality is extremely bad, the monitor is even worse, and the graphics will quickly rub off the control panel with usage (unless you immediately apply a protective cover, which doesn't come with it - newer waves do).

Also, SF2 has been redone well (and recently) on so many systems at this point, playing such an inferior version on A1U just makes it feel like that much more of a step backwards. This is a game that deserves a presentation at least as polished as the MSH unit. Hopefully the anticipated re-release does it justice.

I do understanding how obtaining for modding purposes can be attractive. But after you replace everything that needs it, what are you really buying it for, a couple 1/2 MDF side panels and supports? At that point you may as well just completely build something from scratch with better wood.
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And stick quality is so important on a fighting game where you have to do all kinds of motions on demand for special moves. Those sticks might have been fine in other kinds of games, but you can't do cheap sticks in a good fighting game. Leaf switch sticks should NEVER be used for a fighting game.

 
doctorwolf said:
I do understanding how obtaining for modding purposes can be attractive. But after you replace everything that needs it, what are you really buying it for, a couple 1/2" MDF side panels and supports? At that point you may as well just completely build something from scratch with better wood.
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Yeah, this has been my take from the start, as once you do what needs to be done, you probably could have built something of much higher quality and something more specific to your own needs. I see tons of potential buyers here trying to make what they want, to fit with one of these janky cabinets, instead of the other way around, but to each his own I suppose.

defpally said:
And stick quality is so important on a fighting game where you have to do all kinds of motions on demand for special moves. Those sticks might have been fine in other kinds of games, but you can't do cheap sticks in a good fighting game. Leaf switch sticks should NEVER be used for a fighting game.
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While fighting games for sure need higher quality parts than most games, I would also state that those aren't the only ones where quality is a must as well. Poor quality trackballs can be a problem, and that included spinner for Tempest was a joke at best. Even games like Pac-Man benefits greatly from a 4-way joystick VS. and 8-way one, because if these games don't control properly, what's the point?

For the quality offered in those first cabs, a sub $100 buy-in is probably best, and probably nothing more than $200 for the next wave that saw improvements. Not sure what these latest premium units may command, but I would think nothing over $300 for those, and quality is going to have to really justify that, and no telling if it will.

 
The only home arcade project I've done is to build a replica of "Darts 7" from Shenmue.  Despite how many tools I have to do the work, it of course came out kind of janky and home built looking.  I could probably do better now, but it would still look home built.  I've seen what others here have built at home... it's not pretty at all.

Getting an A1up SF2 on the cheap and modding it makes a lot of sense.  Yes you can go buy some MDF, contract someone for art or do contact paper sides or just paint it a generic color or whatever.  You can buy the t-molding and the bit to cut it and the tool to cut the groove.  You can buy the drill bits used to bore holes... the good ones that cost good money or the cheaper spanner style that work but you run the risk of an imperfect hole which could show.  You can download control layouts and print them and figure out your dimensions.  It's a lot more work than just buying $20 worth of MDF and using a jigsaw and drill and being done if you want anything that looks decent.

Then there's the monitor.  PC montors can be great but tracking down 4:3 monitors of decent size is an issue.  Not just getting the monitor either but then getting the hdmi adpter as 4:3 montiors don't have them, a monitor with buttons that are out of the way or that the monitor will properly go to sleep when it has a signal loss.   You can go wide screen and that is fine but then most games are playing in a box and you either need to just deal with all that wasted space or go with a setup that can allow you to do custom borders like the Legends Ultimate.

It can be VERY rewarding to build from scratch, but there's a reason people buy regular arcade machines and gut them.  It's a heck of a lot easier and if the cab looks good it'll at least look decent in someones home.  My Shenmue dart machine ... it stayed in the garage it's whole life.  It was a fun project.  I even added hidden storage for darts.  But, it wasn't nice enough for inside the house.  A tiny SF2 cab?  That would be a nice decoration and be super functional after modded.

 
ravens52bears54 said:
How did you get one? So done posted it was on the site the other day and I ordered one but the bbn order was immediately canceled. I haven't seen it pop back up on the site since.
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I went through walmart.com, completed the pre-order and had it shipped to store. Just checked my order status a few mins ago and it's still good. Says it will be available for pick-up by March 20th.

 
Dr. Venkman said:
I went through walmart.com, completed the pre-order and had it shipped to store. Just checked my order status a few mins ago and it's still good. Says it will be available for pick-up by March 20th.
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I wish I knew what was going on with me? I've tried countless times with three different credit cards. I contacted Walmart chat and they said they sent up my account to 'validation'and to try the order again in 30 mins. I tried hours later and still won't go through. I even had my wife set up an account and try to order and still the same issues. I have no idea what's going on?
 
ravens52bears54 said:
I wish I knew what was going on with me? I've tried countless times with three different credit cards. I contacted Walmart chat and they said they sent up my account to 'validation'and to try the order again in 30 mins. I tried hours later and still won't go through. I even had my wife set up an account and try to order and still the same issues. I have no idea what's going on?
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Walmart customer service is garbage, have you tried a different browser?
 
nightc1 said:
The only home arcade project I've done is to build a replica of "Darts 7" from Shenmue. Despite how many tools I have to do the work, it of course came out kind of janky and home built looking. I could probably do better now, but it would still look home built. I've seen what others here have built at home... it's not pretty at all.

Getting an A1up SF2 on the cheap and modding it makes a lot of sense. Yes you can go buy some MDF, contract someone for art or do contact paper sides or just paint it a generic color or whatever. You can buy the t-molding and the bit to cut it and the tool to cut the groove. You can buy the drill bits used to bore holes... the good ones that cost good money or the cheaper spanner style that work but you run the risk of an imperfect hole which could show. You can download control layouts and print them and figure out your dimensions. It's a lot more work than just buying $20 worth of MDF and using a jigsaw and drill and being done if you want anything that looks decent.

Then there's the monitor. PC montors can be great but tracking down 4:3 monitors of decent size is an issue. Not just getting the monitor either but then getting the hdmi adpter as 4:3 montiors don't have them, a monitor with buttons that are out of the way or that the monitor will properly go to sleep when it has a signal loss. You can go wide screen and that is fine but then most games are playing in a box and you either need to just deal with all that wasted space or go with a setup that can allow you to do custom borders like the Legends Ultimate.

It can be VERY rewarding to build from scratch, but there's a reason people buy regular arcade machines and gut them. It's a heck of a lot easier and if the cab looks good it'll at least look decent in someones home. My Shenmue dart machine ... it stayed in the garage it's whole life. It was a fun project. I even added hidden storage for darts. But, it wasn't nice enough for inside the house. A tiny SF2 cab? That would be a nice decoration and be super functional after modded.
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My dad and I built my own barcade, it's nice but he had most of the tools already to do the work. All in cost was probably around $400 or so, about a year later these Arcade1Up cabs came out. It was a cool project but I would have much rather had something like Arcade1up cab in the end, even if I modded and came out about the same.

 
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nightc1 said:
Seems like an option for those modding the SF2 cab is instead of an out of stock or over priced deck protector just buy some clear contact paper (usually sold where the shelf/drawer liners are for $5-$6). Others have gone that route without issue.
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Well, the description of how to make it not look crappy that I read involved using a lighter. That and the fact that if it doesn't come out right, I won't be able to easily remove it (I imagine some art might come with it) was enough to keep me away from it. It is certainly cheaper though.

RiceQuakes Classic said:
What's wrong with SF2?
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Some of this was actually covered, but basically most SF cabs went out with all the warts of the first generation machines. The issues didn't end there though, the controllers were bad to the point that you couldn't really do the moves. And, it had sound issues. So you're playing a game on a cheap cab, with sound cutting out, and moves you can't do. Not good since it was just SF2 and that didn't work right.

They did a second revision which did address the sound issues I believe, and even some late ones going out had deck protectors (from Amazon). But you can't tell which is which from the packaging. So, no matter what you're getting a gen 1 quality machine, but it might verge on unplayable depending on your luck.

 
KrAzY3 said:
Well, the description of how to make it not look crappy that I read involved using a lighter. That and the fact that if it doesn't come out right, I won't be able to easily remove it (I imagine some art might come with it) was enough to keep me away from it. It is certainly cheaper though.

Some of this was actually covered, but basically most SF cabs went out with all the warts of the first generation machines. The issues didn't end there though, the controllers were bad to the point that you couldn't really do the moves. And, it had sound issues. So you're playing a game on a cheap cab, with sound cutting out, and moves you can't do. Not good since it was just SF2 and that didn't work right.

They did a second revision which did address the sound issues I believe, and even some late ones going out had deck protectors (from Amazon). But you can't tell which is which from the packaging. So, no matter what you're getting a gen 1 quality machine, but it might verge on unplayable depending on your luck.
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The Street Fighter 2 cabs have joystick gates that you cannot change; they are square which doesn't help you pull of moves smoothly. They didn't have deck protectors but I contacted customer service and they sent me one free of charge, which was nice of them. The sound is okay, didn't see a problem there. I think cosmetically the cab looks nice.

 
Having cheaper components for the control panel is a big misstep.

For the custom cabinet that I built, I actually used solid lumber for the control panel, as well as a full set of Happ arcade controls with micro switches. This was quite some time ago, so part of this was driven more by necessity. But the end result was an extremely robust control configuration.

If it's possible, I strongly recommend either lumber or steel for your control panel. Particle board is the "traditional" building material for arcade construction, but it was largely chosen for cost, not durability. And there's no portion of a cabinet that gets more wear-and-tear than the controls. If there's one portion of your cabinet to throw in a little premium value for the building materials, it should be the control panel. Build the rest of your cabinet out of particle board if you want, but spend a little extra and get a decent piece of lumber for the top surface of your control panel. A plexi-glass cover is also a good choice on top of your control panel, but that's become increasingly common, so most people already take that precaution.

 
Dr. Venkman said:
The Street Fighter 2 cabs have joystick gates that you cannot change; they are square which doesn't help you pull of moves smoothly. They didn't have deck protectors but I contacted customer service and they sent me one free of charge, which was nice of them. The sound is okay, didn't see a problem there. I think cosmetically the cab looks nice.
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I don't know all the differences without some searching, I think there might have been changes to the gates, but I'm positive that there's a V2 change to the audio. So, if you're on V2 audio might be fine, if you're on V1 you might notice the issues.

As far as the deck protector, not sure when you called but I got rebuffed on that, even with slight cosmetic issues. It seemed like they got worse about giving them out over time, even though they should have come with them to begin with.

As far as general durability, I'm swimming with video game stuff so ironically as long as the damn thing doesn't look like crap after light use (which these would do originally) I'm not as concerned with overall sturdiness as some would be. I can't imagine these things holding up well to heavy use though, the ones I see in Walmart usually end up looking pretty rough.

 
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KrAzY3 said:
I don't know all the differences without some searching, I think there might have been changes to the gates, but I'm positive that there's a V2 change to the audio. So, if you're on V2 audio might be fine, if you're on V1 you might notice the issues.

As far as the deck protector, not sure when you called but I got rebuffed on that, even with slight cosmetic issues. It seemed like they got worse about giving them out over time, even though they should have come with them to begin with.

As far as general durability, I'm swimming with video game stuff so ironically as long as the damn thing doesn't look like crap after light use (which these would do originally) I'm not as concerned with overall sturdiness as some would be. I can't imagine these things holding up well to heavy use though, the ones I see in Walmart usually end up looking pretty rough.
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I'm not gonna lie, I simply told them that I own 6 of their machines and I thought it was really sad that not all machines have a protector. I was THAT asshole and guilted them into it. I have no shame.

 
KrAzY3 said:
As far as the deck protector, not sure when you called but I got rebuffed on that, even with slight cosmetic issues. It seemed like they got worse about giving them out over time, even though they should have come with them to begin with.
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I got rejected for my Galaga machine that had some scratches on the control deck...so I said I would just return it to Walmart and get another one. An hour or two later, I got an email saying one was being shipped out. They don't want you returning these things.

 
the deck protector not coming with from the get-go seems like such pennywise mistake. these things at initial release (not sure nowadays) were on display and my first impression was not good. it was a sf2 a1up at walmart and all of the control panel art was worn away from use.

these are very much “toys” imo and at their msrp price point (expensive for toys) need to withstand young kid hands (sweaty, greasy, gnarly)

i’ll echo the sentiment that control panel durability should be prioritized. soccer mom isn’t buying multiple of these and the plug n play crowd isn’t going to mod them.

personally, i don’t understand why anyone would buy one of these to mod versus buying a flat pack bartop kit from haruman, grs, or somewhere else. (and you can get artwork so that isn’t even really a deciding factor for those that plan to tinker)
 
as an aside, I know this is A1up thread but thought I would mention a tidbit about the difference between Sams and Walmart Legends Ultimate that I read on reddit.

Besides the dimension difference, apparently the walmart version has a molded plastic control panel instead of the wooden panel (plexi protected) on the sams version.

This would matter most to modders imo
 
Dr. Venkman said:
I'm not gonna lie, I simply told them that I own 6 of their machines and I thought it was really sad that not all machines have a protector. I was THAT asshole and guilted them into it. I have no shame.
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I owned 4 of them at the time I tried and couldn't get them to budge. I ended up ordering two of them, one arrived warped and cracked when I was screwing it down, then they sent me another. When I requested the protectors, no damage had occurred to the control panels, though. It may have been a different story if I had said the art had already worn off within the warranty period.

 
BrandonJF said:
I owned 4 of them at the time I tried and couldn't get them to budge. I ended up ordering two of them, one arrived warped and cracked when I was screwing it down, then they sent me another. When I requested the protectors, no damage had occurred to the control panels, though. It may have been a different story if I had said the art had already worn off within the warranty period.
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Just a note for anyone unaware: I would advise against using any power tools to assemble these things. I had a friend get a little over zealous and split boards in a few places due to excessive force.

 
pbfluff said:
as an aside, I know this is A1up thread but thought I would mention a tidbit about the difference between Sams and Walmart Legends Ultimate that I read on reddit.

Besides the dimension difference, apparently the walmart version has a molded plastic control panel instead of the wooden panel (plexi protected) on the sams version.

This would matter most to modders imo
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As soon as I pick mine up I'll post pictures. Honestly molded plastic doesn't seem like an awful alternative. I would have gotten the Sam's Club version but the nearest one is a state away from me.

 
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Dr. Venkman said:
As soon as I pick mine up I'll post pictures. Honestly molded plastic doesn't seem like an awful alternative. I would have gotten the Sam's Club version but the nearest one is a state away from me.
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if you are being realistic with your expectations (which based on other posts of yours I assume so), I think you'll be pleased.

Creating UCE's with proper boxart and bezels (bezel project) can be addicting, but you can also grab a lot of them from google drive.

Someone has been working on custom mame cores that allow for samples..I'm excited to see if these work for DK and Zaxxon.

There are "Diet" UCE's made via a linux script that use the built in cores on the machine to save space on the USB drive.

By default, mame2003plus is the goto core (and mame2010 to a smaller extent)

My 5 year old son and I have a blast playing together with ample room, comfort, and screen size.

The only mod I have considered thus far is the GRS Tron Joystick.

 
Dr. Venkman said:
As soon as I pick mine up I'll post pictures. Honestly molded plastic doesn't seem like an awful alternative. I would have gotten the Sam's Club version but the nearest one is a state away from me.
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I for one will be very interested in your feedback. IF the control panel is plastic then that's not the end of the world for me as I have no reason to mod it anyway, but I'd like to see it. The point in me buying this is to have something already made that looks decent and is functional without having to do any real modding.

 
pbfluff said:
if you are being realistic with your expectations (which based on other posts of yours I assume so), I think you'll be pleased.

Creating UCE's with proper boxart and bezels (bezel project) can be addicting, but you can also grab a lot of them from google drive.

Someone has been working on custom mame cores that allow for samples..I'm excited to see if these work for DK and Zaxxon.

There are "Diet" UCE's made via a linux script that use the built in cores on the machine to save space on the USB drive.

By default, mame2003plus is the goto core (and mame2010 to a smaller extent)

My 5 year old son and I have a blast playing together with ample room, comfort, and screen size.

The only mod I have considered thus far is the GRS Tron Joystick.
Click to expand...
Can you also add scanlines? Bezels plus scanlines without performance issues would be great.
 
Dr. Venkman said:
Just a note for anyone unaware: I would advise against using any power tools to assemble these things. I had a friend get a little over zealous and split boards in a few places due to excessive force.
Click to expand...
It's fine, just ensure you use one that you can manually set the torque on. Set mine on the lowest torque setting and it worked fine. I agree with your statement if using one without a torque setting.

 
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