The New, But Not Improved Firmware Thread: 4.00 Currently Available

I think the difference is for people who DID use Linux, or even knew of it, there is a LOT of potential. Is it a great desktop PC replacement? Ehh, not really. But if you NEED a parallel processing system, or a super fast H264 encoder, or just want a decent media center *without spending an extra penny*, it was there.

Sony gave 3 day's notice that the feature was being removed, you'd lose access to the data on the Linux partition, and if you didn't upgrade, you lose the ability to play games online, or even play some single player PSN games, future games won't work, etc, etc. If you were told late on a Sunday you had 3 days to lose your computer PERMANENTLY wouldn't you be a bit upset?

If Sony said "You can choose whether or not to lose it but for now you can stay on PSN, etc" it would've been different. (still annoying, but different)

The Wii mp3 issue WAS advertised, I knew not to upgrade and I think a lot of people did as well. If you didn't upgrade, everything continued to work just fine. It caused more of an annoyance workaround as it would still play music, you'd just have to convert it to AAC, but it didn't cause games or other parts of the system to stop working. I think if Nintendo said "If you don't kill your MP3 option, you won't be able to play games anymore" you would've seen a lot more screaming. The fact it it probably IS a very low use function of the Wii, AND a feature duplicated in a lot of other places. The Cell's unique power as a CPU is not available anywhere else (and I don't mean that as fanboy enthusiasm, seriously, how many MP3 players does the average person have access to now? It's not a unique feature)
 
Good question although since you can't get on PSN I've been assuming you can't fold anymore (although it might work with the proxy trick). Haven't tried it, though.
 
I got online with my ps3 and am still running linux, all you have to do is connect your ps3 to a pc that you make a wireless hotspot and then use a proxy. nuff said I just bought something on the psn.
 
Have to say I've been a little nervous about the proxy trick. It still seems reasonable that Sony could possibly tell which version of the PSN "client" you're running on the PS3 side and that they've never thought to query that since the firmware got queried first and took care of version issues.

I think it'd cause the firestorm to whip up into a frenzy if they started banning people but Sony proved this week they have their heads so far up their .... that stupid decisions come very natural to them. I'd like to think it would be more likely that they'd just fix up the version detection, but who knows. It'll be interesting to see this week what happens with PSN.
 
Since I know I'm never going to use Linux I went ahead and updated. I'm curious how many CAGs have gone ahead and done it vs how many are using the proxy trick or are just not bothering at all. I agree with all the principles but it just doesn't effect me, and I want to go online.

For those of you that haven't, it gives you a disclaimer that it's going to kill the OtherOS option and makes you hit "Yes" I want to install this update, likely to cover legal ground for anyone that installs it unknowingly. Still curious if this amounts to a law suit based on the removal of advertised potential selling points for the system.
 
I still feel as if most of these updates are kind of forced on ALL of us. What if an update messes up some systems but not others(like the 3.10 or so did with controller sync issues for slim owners)?

Personally, I think that Sony should make it so you can choose when/if to download the updates, but still allow you online in the meantime. If that were the case already, I would still be on whatever update shipped with my PS3, since most of these firmware updates have been total and utter crap for me.

Yay for 90 store icons, a Facebook icon(i'll never use) and other various crap they've added.

The bug fixes I don't mind, as long as they detail 100% of what is in an update, instead of saying 'you need to do this NOW or else we won't let you online'.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']I still feel as if most of these updates are kind of forced on ALL of us. What if an update messes up some systems but not others(like the 3.10 or so did with controller sync issues for slim owners)?

Personally, I think that Sony should make it so you can choose when/if to download the updates, but still allow you online in the meantime. If that were the case already, I would still be on whatever update shipped with my PS3, since most of these firmware updates have been total and utter crap for me.

Yay for 90 store icons, a Facebook icon(i'll never use) and other various crap they've added.

The bug fixes I don't mind, as long as they detail 100% of what is in an update, instead of saying 'you need to do this NOW or else we won't let you online'.[/QUOTE]

I agree that the updates are very forced upon us. You can't play online without the update, and as such it is basically needed for most PS3 users.

I don't know why people would complain about losing the OS support because 99% of people don't use that OS anyway as far as I know. I think its true that people are just upset because it removes something, even though they never have/will use it.
 
I am a sheep, I just update when they tell me to.

I gather the main purpose of this was to avoid a modded system that could play pirated games. But with CAG backing me up I can always get my games cheap enough if I am patient.
 
It makes my blood boil and my blood pressure go sky high when I see punks selling modded Xbox 360s and Wiis on a site like Kijiji. I applaud Sony for putting their foot down and telling the pirates "Not on our console!"

Some people might believe the guff from the jerks spamming the official site but I don't. They're crying like babies not because they can't run Linux or whatever but because their chance to pirate games took a big hit.

I'm sure George is planning to create a fix for this and the pirates will get their way or so they think. I think they need to do something about people like George. He needs to be made an example of. In this economy, we don't need to see more people lose their jobs because of selfish people like George and his ilk.
 
[quote name='lustyhitter']It makes my blood boil and my blood pressure go sky high when I see punks selling modded Xbox 360s and Wiis on a site like Kijiji. I applaud Sony for putting their foot down and telling the pirates "Not on our console!"

Some people might believe the guff from the jerks spamming the official site but I don't. They're crying like babies not because they can't run Linux or whatever but because their chance to pirate games took a big hit.

I'm sure George is planning to create a fix for this and the pirates will get their way or so they think. I think they need to do something about people like George. He needs to be made an example of. In this economy, we don't need to see more people lose their jobs because of selfish people like George and his ilk.[/QUOTE]

With some of the glitchy crap that's been released in the last couple of years(Mercenaries 2, prime example), I feel that some of these developers should be put out of business by losing sales due to piracy. Even after patching the hell out of games, some of them are still more broken than working and that is what pisses me off.

As for 'making an example' of the hacker who found the workaround, get off your high horse and look around at all of the crap games that have come out and then tell me you still feel the same. Some of these games aren't worth the media they're pressed on.

Personally, even though I have a slim PS3 now, if I had a fat model I would definitely be very rightly pissed at them taking an advertised function away from my console. If I still had my 40gb now, you better believe I'd be pissed that they're taking away a function that they advertised on my console. Even if I never used it(like Playstation Home), it's something I paid for in the package and I want what I paid for.

What's next? They take away the ability to play disc based games and offer only digital distribution as a method to buy games? That's what's coming if the pansies who just say 'oh alright, I trust the almighty Sony to do what's good for us' keep giving this company a fuckin' pass.

I'm not saying I really condone piracy(contrary to my statement above), but not standing up and telling the company you want all of your console's functionality AND to be able to play online if you choose not to update is going to potentially lead us down the path where the company will really have you by the balls and you'll have no choice in how to get your games.

If that happens, then Sony can kiss my fuckin' ass and I'll sell everything I own with the name Sony on it. No resell rights=no deal for me.
 
Anyone who bought a PS3 because maybe possibly someday down the line there would be piracy is an idiot, plain and simple. Not to mention, those of us with Linux-capable consoles bought when they were REALLY pricey. Piracy likely didn't even enter into the equation-- seriously, do people think "Hrm, I'll drop $600 for a console, and then maybe in a year or two someone will hack it and I'll have free games!!!! Woot!!!" I REALLY doubt very many of the people who are upset have been waiting for 3 years now for pirated games and are mad Sony ruined their fun.

I have a 60 and am feeling very stuck in a bind. If I update, I can NEVER go back and use Linux, and yes, it was something on that "list of things to try out someday". I was a CS major, this stuff really interests me, I bought the PS2 Linux kit for pete's sake (which I just checked, I pre-ordered before I even owned a PS2!). Of course now, without doing tricks, I can't go online. The fact is they have taken functionality out of my system EITHER WAY no matter what I do, and yes, it pisses me off to no end.

I bought a PS3 when they were expensive, partly because my 360 was freaking out and the PS3 did a lot more and seemed to be built much better overall. I've bought a lot of multi-platform games for the PS3 simply because it felt like the system that would be a bit more stable in the long run-- I wasn't sure what I'd do if my 360 broke whereas I felt like the PS3 was built better and if nothing else more would survive into the future if I wanted to buy a new one.

So for now, I'm not updating. I don't know what I'll do. I feel like there's more to come in this story, though. If I buy a slim and box up the 60 for now, I'm stuck with half the functionality of my current model (and yes, I do use the 4 USB ports, and the card readers, and have a collection of SACDs that I bought *solely because my PS3 played them*). [although since supposedly Sony STILL loses money on every PS3 sold and it's not like I'd be buying any more games than I would anyway, it'd be a net loss for them] I could run them together but that seems silly. If I upgrade my 60 I tell Sony "Yes, I am your bitch, do whatever you want to me". And I can NEVER change my mind if I ever wish I could try out Linux -- and no, I don't want it for a computer but some of the capabilities of the Cell are pretty amazing to have access to. If I don't, I can't play games online. Which for me isn't the end of the world although being locked out of PSN stuff sucks a lot. Unlike a lot of people who seem to think "oh, well, what can you do", my principles DO matter to me, and I feel this move by Sony goes against what I believe are consumer's rights. Once I buy a system, it's mine, NOT Sony's. If there's a security hack-- tough for Sony. Patch it or whatever, but removing functionality that was there when I paid for it IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. I guess I've seen every other console since the beginning of time get hacked so Sony is just swimming upstream on this. They've had a hell of a run, longer than pretty much any other system, but it won't last forever. Screwing EVERYONE with a Fat out of a function seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Because, AGAIN, the hackers now know they must be very close. If anything, Sony confirmed there's a BIG problem with Linux. And now it's a race to exploit it. A race that no one was even really trying to enter a week ago.

I feel like I got screwed on this no matter which move I make. When you figure a week ago I thought the PS3 was an awesome machine that could "do everything" and now I haven't even turned mine on since like Monday in utter disgust/confusion as to what to do, Sony burned an amazing amount of goodwill with me, and I'm sure a lot of other people. Sony turned this whole situation into a lose/lose, although I am very afraid if they don't feel a bit of the wrath of the gaming community over this, they (And all the other gaming companies) will start using this "scorched earth" policy whenever they feel like it.

I have read conspiracy theories about this, though. It seems like it's been barely 3-4 weeks since the reports started coming out that Sony was having trouble replacing the fully BC PS3s when sent in for repair. People have been complaining of long wait times, or being shipped back a partially BC 80gb unit. Sony knows they can't ship back Slims to people sending in Fats due to the huge functionality difference. Sony COULD be testing the water to remove ALL "Fat" functionality from the PS3 in order to say "Hey, they're functionally the same, so we're sending you a Slim instead of fixing your Fat". They test this by removing Linux for "security" issues despite the fact all the hackers know not to upgrade and can keep banging on the system for as long as they want. If they get away with it, I have a very nasty feeling suddenly an "exploit" will magically appear for SACD playback even though that makes no sense (since there's no way to burn an SACD of your own). Then PS2 compatibility, and they'll have to kill that too. If they pull that off, they wouldn't have to worry about repairing anyone's Fat anymore.

Or, conspiracy theory 2: you can't argue piracy is much more rampant (and easy to pull off), on the DS, 360, Wii, etc... yet somehow all of those systems routinely beat the PS3 in both software and hardware sales. The PS2 was pretty easily modded early in its life and went on to define a generation of gaming. Maybe, in a Sony twisted logic from hell, they think they needed to help piracy along by doing the most idiotic thing they could do. In terms of AFFECTING users, sure, not many USED Linux but you can't argue this set off a bombshell when they announced it. I would bet that we'll see pirated games on the PS3 within 6 months now. And maybe in a twisted way Sony thought that would make the system more attractive to more people-- sure, they'd pirate games, but it's likely they'd buy at least a few.. and some blurays.. and make some sales along the way.

Yes, they're conspiracy theories but you never know... ;)

(wow, this is long, sorry..)
 
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[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']What's next? They take away the ability to play disc based games and offer only digital distribution as a method to buy games? That's what's coming if the pansies who just say 'oh alright, I trust the almighty Sony to do what's good for us' keep giving this company a fuckin' pass.[/QUOTE]

The earliest that would happen would be the next console, not the PS3, solely because of Blu-Ray. That was the trojan horse that got the PS3 into homes, so they wouldn't screw over their own BR division (which they invested R&D into, and make lots of royalties from others) like that. The PS3 will always be media based because unlike the PSP, Hollywood studios actually like BR discs. If anything, the PSP Go is Sony's litmus test for the future of Digital Distribution.
 
[quote name='justin42']anyone who bought a ps3 because maybe possibly someday down the line there would be piracy is an idiot, plain and simple. Not to mention, those of us with linux-capable consoles bought when they were really pricey. Piracy likely didn't even enter into the equation-- seriously, do people think "hrm, i'll drop $600 for a console, and then maybe in a year or two someone will hack it and i'll have free games!!!! Woot!!!" i really doubt very many of the people who are upset have been waiting for 3 years now for pirated games and are mad sony ruined their fun.

I have a 60 and am feeling very stuck in a bind. If i update, i can never go back and use linux, and yes, it was something on that "list of things to try out someday". I was a cs major, this stuff really interests me, i bought the ps2 linux kit for pete's sake (which i just checked, i pre-ordered before i even owned a ps2!). Of course now, without doing tricks, i can't go online. The fact is they have taken functionality out of my system either way no matter what i do, and yes, it pisses me off to no end.

I bought a ps3 when they were expensive, partly because my 360 was freaking out and the ps3 did a lot more and seemed to be built much better overall. I've bought a lot of multi-platform games for the ps3 simply because it felt like the system that would be a bit more stable in the long run-- i wasn't sure what i'd do if my 360 broke whereas i felt like the ps3 was built better and if nothing else more would survive into the future if i wanted to buy a new one.

So for now, i'm not updating. I don't know what i'll do. I feel like there's more to come in this story, though. If i buy a slim and box up the 60 for now, i'm stuck with half the functionality of my current model (and yes, i do use the 4 usb ports, and the card readers, and have a collection of sacds that i bought *solely because my ps3 played them*). [although since supposedly sony still loses money on every ps3 sold and it's not like i'd be buying any more games than i would anyway, it'd be a net loss for them] i could run them together but that seems silly. If i upgrade my 60 i tell sony "yes, i am your bitch, do whatever you want to me". And i can never change my mind if i ever wish i could try out linux -- and no, i don't want it for a computer but some of the capabilities of the cell are pretty amazing to have access to. If i don't, i can't play games online. Which for me isn't the end of the world although being locked out of psn stuff sucks a lot. Unlike a lot of people who seem to think "oh, well, what can you do", my principles do matter to me, and i feel this move by sony goes against what i believe are consumer's rights. Once i buy a system, it's mine, not sony's. If there's a security hack-- tough for sony. Patch it or whatever, but removing functionality that was there when i paid for it is not acceptable. I guess i've seen every other console since the beginning of time get hacked so sony is just swimming upstream on this. They've had a hell of a run, longer than pretty much any other system, but it won't last forever. Screwing everyone with a fat out of a function seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Because, again, the hackers now know they must be very close. If anything, sony confirmed there's a big problem with linux. And now it's a race to exploit it. A race that no one was even really trying to enter a week ago.

I feel like i got screwed on this no matter which move i make. When you figure a week ago i thought the ps3 was an awesome machine that could "do everything" and now i haven't even turned mine on since like monday in utter disgust/confusion as to what to do, sony burned an amazing amount of goodwill with me, and i'm sure a lot of other people. Sony turned this whole situation into a lose/lose, although i am very afraid if they don't feel a bit of the wrath of the gaming community over this, they (and all the other gaming companies) will start using this "scorched earth" policy whenever they feel like it.

I have read conspiracy theories about this, though. It seems like it's been barely 3-4 weeks since the reports started coming out that sony was having trouble replacing the fully bc ps3s when sent in for repair. People have been complaining of long wait times, or being shipped back a partially bc 80gb unit. Sony knows they can't ship back slims to people sending in fats due to the huge functionality difference. Sony could be testing the water to remove all "fat" functionality from the ps3 in order to say "hey, they're functionally the same, so we're sending you a slim instead of fixing your fat". They test this by removing linux for "security" issues despite the fact all the hackers know not to upgrade and can keep banging on the system for as long as they want. If they get away with it, i have a very nasty feeling suddenly an "exploit" will magically appear for sacd playback even though that makes no sense (since there's no way to burn an sacd of your own). Then ps2 compatibility, and they'll have to kill that too. If they pull that off, they wouldn't have to worry about repairing anyone's fat anymore.

Or, conspiracy theory 2: You can't argue piracy is much more rampant (and easy to pull off), on the ds, 360, wii, etc... Yet somehow all of those systems routinely beat the ps3 in both software and hardware sales. The ps2 was pretty easily modded early in its life and went on to define a generation of gaming. Maybe, in a sony twisted logic from hell, they think they needed to help piracy along by doing the most idiotic thing they could do. In terms of affecting users, sure, not many used linux but you can't argue this set off a bombshell when they announced it. I would bet that we'll see pirated games on the ps3 within 6 months now. And maybe in a twisted way sony thought that would make the system more attractive to more people-- sure, they'd pirate games, but it's likely they'd buy at least a few.. And some blurays.. And make some sales along the way.

Yes, they're conspiracy theories but you never know... ;)

(wow, this is long, sorry..)[/quote]

+1
 
Well, judging from the responses at the official site, they don't come off as sincere to me since many of them can't spell. I still think many of the people, who support GeoHotz, had more sinister plans in store for a hacked PS3.

Oh, and Justin42, the PS3 is behind in sales in the U.S. so that's why their software doesn't sell as much. I guess that didn't cross your mind, eh?

Then again, we live in a society where people want compensation any time they are "wronged", even if it's insignificant. That's alright, everybody is like that now.
 
They should just make 2 copies of the games on 360 and charge 10,000,000 each then someone would have to pay up. Then a month after 3 copies sold continue to sell it for 50 each. Someone should try that once because who wouldn't want to try a 10,000,000 game at that price.
 
Still not backing Sony's decision to remove Other OS, but I've got to wonder if this has anything to do with the outage fat PS3s encountered recently. Perhaps Sony sees something defective with the clock that is integral to running Other OS. Maybe the clock in the slims is run off of software, and that's why they weren't affected. Now that all PS3s have software clocks, there will be no more strange outages.
 
[quote name='Cthulhu8u']The earliest that would happen would be the next console, not the PS3, solely because of Blu-Ray. That was the trojan horse that got the PS3 into homes, so they wouldn't screw over their own BR division (which they invested R&D into, and make lots of royalties from others) like that. The PS3 will always be media based because unlike the PSP, Hollywood studios actually like BR discs. If anything, the PSP Go is Sony's litmus test for the future of Digital Distribution.[/QUOTE]

And unfortunately some idiots are buying up the PSP Go like it's the best damn thing ever. Like I repeatedly say, if consoles go DD next gen, fuck them I'm done gaming on consoles then. No resell rights+constantly high prices for games=fuck you.
[quote name='lustyhitter']Well, judging from the responses at the official site, they don't come off as sincere to me since many of them can't spell. I still think many of the people, who support GeoHotz, had more sinister plans in store for a hacked PS3.

Oh, and Justin42, the PS3 is behind in sales in the U.S. so that's why their software doesn't sell as much. I guess that didn't cross your mind, eh?

Then again, we live in a society where people want compensation any time they are "wronged", even if it's insignificant. That's alright, everybody is like that now.[/QUOTE]
Let me dry my tears over all the money poor Sony is gonna lose.:cry: Who cares what people wanted to do with their consoles that they paid money for. Sony still took away a function they openly advertised as being one of the things to buy the PS3 for that differentiated it from the competition.

People will do what they want to anyway, regardless of what edict or firmware update Sony puts out to try and stop them. As has been mentioned on this thread already, there's a workaround to still get on PSN and keep the old firmware, so people will find a way to do what they want to anyway.

Sony has just put more fuel to the fire that was possessing the hackers to break their console and open it up to potential piracy with their 'you don't need that anymore' attitude.

Personally, I still hope Sony ends up losing enough on the PS3 that they end up pulling a Sega and are out of the console business after this gen. They deserve it after gouging consumers and unleashing the trojan horse of Blu-Ray, which helped to push up the console's pricetag significantly.
 
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[quote name='lustyhitter']
Oh, and Justin42, the PS3 is behind in sales in the U.S. so that's why their software doesn't sell as much. I guess that didn't cross your mind, eh?[/QUOTE]

Actually, that's exactly my point. That's why I said it's usually behind in software AND hardware sales. I'm sure people buy DSes just to pirate, because it CAN be pirated. And they buy 360s just to pirate. They don't buy PS3s because they can't. I am NOT saying piracy is right but I wonder if Sony believes they could capture more sales on the hardware side if it was there, because once you buy a PS3 you're likely to buy SOME stuff for it. (it's a conspiracy theory. I don't want to spend a ton of time explaining the twisted logic Sony would use, but Sony's proven themselves pretty braindead this entire generation) Again I AM NOT JUSTIFYING THIS OR SAYING IT IS "RIGHT". I've owned my PS3 since 2007, I have probably 50 games for it, Sony's made plenty off me. And that's why I'm pissed. Taking a feature from me AFTER purchase IS wrong.

What if they took away video streaming? Or PS1 compatibility? Just because someone isn't running OtherOS doesn't somehow make this "right".

And OtherOS is not a feature in and of itself that runs in the background waiting to be active. It's basically a switch that modifies the bootloader on the PS3. If you don't install Linux, OtherOS has NOTHING TO DO with the functioning of your system. It's not something that runs in the background that viruses could exploit, it's nothing that runs the clock, etc. It's like the Network Settings screen or the Date and Time set-- it just lets you make a change to how the PS3 boots and set up a dual boot. Nothing else. Like Boot Camp on the Mac-- if you don't set up a Windows OS, it's not like Boot Camp is always running in the background.

(and it seems to me most of the people mad about the removal on the PS Blogs are generally more coherent than the SONY OWNZ ME AND CAN DOWHATEVER THEY WANT crowd.)

The thing is, the hacks are out there now. People who are trying to hack the system ARE NOT updating and are still going. Someone posted on the Playstation blog that GameOS was dumped yesterday using a pretty wacky hardware hack. So you know what? Game over. I THINK the whole system's been dumped now and it's just a matter of time. Turning off OtherOS now ONLY hurts legitimate users at this point, as with the dumps the hackers can start work on reverse engineering the GameOS and creating custom firmware. Once they get a toehold in and understand how the OS works, OtherOS is *100%* irrelevant. And you won't need it there to install CFW. And Sony gave all the fuel needed to this fire by turning off OtherOS.

I almost hope it WAS done for conspiracy theory reasons as if they really thought this would stop anything, they need to fire EVERY SINGLE PERSON who green-lighted this decision. Those of us who pay attention knew this would be a disaster for Sony and it's shaping up to be one-- not in the legal sense, but in the "race to crack the PS3" sense.
 
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[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']
Personally, I still hope Sony ends up losing enough on the PS3 that they end up pulling a Sega and are out of the console business after this gen. They deserve it after gouging consumers and unleashing the trojan horse of Blu-Ray, which helped to push up the console's pricetag significantly.[/QUOTE]


So surely you feel the same way about Microsoft too then right? Honestly if you want Sony to be the next Sega this confirms to me that you aren't a true gamer. If it weren't for Sony we would be missing out on some of the most amazing games out there. Many that were rejected by MS and Nintendo. You must really love less options. I don't get how you can be so close-minded in life but hey that's your prob.
 
[quote name='ssjmichael']So surely you feel the same way about Microsoft too then right? Honestly if you want Sony to be the next Sega this confirms to me that you aren't a true gamer. If it weren't for Sony we would be missing out on some of the most amazing games out there. Many that were rejected by MS and Nintendo. You must really love less options. I don't get how you can be so close-minded in life but hey that's your prob.[/QUOTE]

How'd I know someone would have to chime in so soon?:roll: Yes. You could say that MS 'gouges' consumers by 'making them' pay for online service, but then again not everyone really wants to play online. So right there, that negates the next argument about 'zomg $100 for a wifi adapter'.

As for the HDD thing, I do commend Sony for allowing any old SATA laptop HDD to work in the PS3 though as compared to MS' $100+ HDD's, but if you're a true CAG you didn't pay anywhere near that for a HDD for the 360.

And yes, while the failure rate is pretty steep for the 360, so was the PS2's last gen. Before anyone says it, I know not everyone had DRE PS2's. After all, some had disc scratching PS2's and some were just plain old dead in the water.

And btw, wtf is a 'true gamer'? I play whatever games I want to play on whatever console has them. So if 90% of the games I wanted to play were on the 360, I'd have a 360. But thus far a good portion have been multiplatform and I own a PS3, so bonus for me that I don't have to buy another console, right?
 
You can make as many xcuses as you want to justify your double standard, but MS price gouges as much as Sony, if not more. Also if you can't realize the benefit of Blu-ray for gaming then I feel sorry for you. You can look at it as a trojan horse, similar to how the DVD was implemented on the PS2, but both have benefited the gaming industry as well.
 
LOL And if it were up to MS, there would be no Linux. At least Sony gave the ability initially to install Linux without having to mod your console. Unfortunately, the actions of a few instigated this current situation. Unfortunately, if you give someone an inch they want to take a mile.
 
Look at this picture of GeoHotz, if it is indeed him:

539px-George_Hotz.jpg

Does he look like somebody who cares if he hurts the industry further? I don't think so.

Too many people think that piracy doesn't hurt anybody. It's the old adage, people think that pirating one game won't do no harm but they forget that many others are doing the same. All the people whining and crying can say whatever they want, that they bought a PS3 for Linux. However, looking at the complainers doing the typing, I just see a bunch of people who don't want to pay money for legitimate software on the PS3 just like they don't for the other consoles and handhelds out there.

And where were these people two weeks ago? I've been to many websites and even I didn't know people used a PS3 to run another OS.
 
So you're saying everyone complaining about this bought a $600 console, has had it sitting around for 3 years unboxed, hasn't bought any game, and is just pissed as Sony because just as it looks like maybe someday it's possible that someone MIGHT be able to hack the PS3, Sony took a feature away.

Seriously? "Where were these people two weeks ago"? Uhm, last time I checked, I was probably playing a game on my fully functional PS3, or maybe browsing the PSN store, or maybe my system was turned off. Dunno. 2 weeks ago my system could go online, browse PSN, play games online and offline, and boot into Linux if I wanted it to. Today, it can't do all those things. I didn't know that to complain about Sony removing functionality I had to actively thank them daily for said functionality prior to its removal.

Just because YOU didn't know about a feature doesn't mean that lots of others didn't. It was WIDELY KNOWN the PS3 could run Linux. Phil Harrision (at the time President of SCE I believe) said in 2007 "One of the most powerful things about the PS3 is the "Install Other OS" option. It won't be Vista. It'll be Linux." (ref: http://kotaku.com/235049/20-questions-with-phil-harrison-at-dice).

And I think you're making a pretty massive generalization saying we're all just complainers who wanted free games. If anything, we're the ones who have the most invested in the PS3 because we felt, despite how expensive it was at the time, that it was the best value on the console market because of all the things it could do. And now Sony is starting to retroactively take functionality out.

You know, if it was a feature YOU used, you'd probably be complaining, too. Having a PS3 sitting there that's become a slight bit more of a paperweight than it was just a week ago due to Sony just yanking out a feature I knew about and hoped to play with someday. (no, I don't have OtherOS installed currently. I DID buy a PS3 for $500 because I could see Sony was removing functionality in newer models and wanted to be absolutely sure to get one with everything a PS3 was designed to do, and that includes running Linux)
 
[quote name='ssjmichael']You can make as many xcuses as you want to justify your double standard, but MS price gouges as much as Sony, if not more. Also if you can't realize the benefit of Blu-ray for gaming then I feel sorry for you. You can look at it as a trojan horse, similar to how the DVD was implemented on the PS2, but both have benefited the gaming industry as well.[/QUOTE]

I'll admit that Blu-Ray has eliminated(for now) the need for multiple discs on games which would require them if they were only pressed on DVD, but how many multi-disc games have really been required on the 360 and Wii versus on a BR on the PS3?

A slim number indeed. So while it is an improvement, 90% of games don't need a BR sized disc to play as intended.

As for being given an inch and taking a mile, from what I've read of the 'workaround' for Linux, it would require someone going into the console and doing soldering and all manners modification to their console.

The average shnook on the street isn't going to mess with their console like that, so unless people who know how to re-wire everything offered services at a reasonable price, I don't see 'zomg piracy' being a big deal on the PS3.

Now if someone took some knowledge of a software workaround and made a disc format program like was available on the PS2, THEN Sony might have room to worry.

But the number of people trying to 'hack' their PS3's is probably as small a number as the people who are using Linux on it.

As for the people coming out of the woodwork to complain about the update, I don't blame them. They are still losing a function that was in the console from launch, even if they never used it at all, they are STILL losing a function. Like I said, what's next, the removal of disc based game playback? PS2 BC in the older models being disabled?

If people don't speak out and try to fight for some semblance of rights, then they deserve to get fucked over by these corporations.
 
[quote name='Justin42']So you're saying everyone complaining about this bought a $600 console, has had it sitting around for 3 years unboxed, hasn't bought any game, and is just pissed as Sony because just as it looks like maybe someday it's possible that someone MIGHT be able to hack the PS3, Sony took a feature away.

Seriously? "Where were these people two weeks ago"? Uhm, last time I checked, I was probably playing a game on my fully functional PS3, or maybe browsing the PSN store, or maybe my system was turned off. Dunno. 2 weeks ago my system could go online, browse PSN, play games online and offline, and boot into Linux if I wanted it to. Today, it can't do all those things. I didn't know that to complain about Sony removing functionality I had to actively thank them daily for said functionality prior to its removal.

Just because YOU didn't know about a feature doesn't mean that lots of others didn't. It was WIDELY KNOWN the PS3 could run Linux. Phil Harrision (at the time President of SCE I believe) said in 2007 "One of the most powerful things about the PS3 is the "Install Other OS" option. It won't be Vista. It'll be Linux." (ref: http://kotaku.com/235049/20-questions-with-phil-harrison-at-dice).

And I think you're making a pretty massive generalization saying we're all just complainers who wanted free games. If anything, we're the ones who have the most invested in the PS3 because we felt, despite how expensive it was at the time, that it was the best value on the console market because of all the things it could do. And now Sony is starting to retroactively take functionality out.

You know, if it was a feature YOU used, you'd probably be complaining, too. Having a PS3 sitting there that's become a slight bit more of a paperweight than it was just a week ago due to Sony just yanking out a feature I knew about and hoped to play with someday. (no, I don't have OtherOS installed currently. I DID buy a PS3 for $500 because I could see Sony was removing functionality in newer models and wanted to be absolutely sure to get one with everything a PS3 was designed to do, and that includes running Linux)[/QUOTE]

+1. Sony screwed us on this one, period.
 
[quote name='lustyhitter']Look at this picture of GeoHotz, if it is indeed him:

539px-George_Hotz.jpg

Does he look like somebody who cares if he hurts the industry further? I don't think so.

Too many people think that piracy doesn't hurt anybody. It's the old adage, people think that pirating one game won't do no harm but they forget that many others are doing the same. All the people whining and crying can say whatever they want, that they bought a PS3 for Linux. However, looking at the complainers doing the typing, I just see a bunch of people who don't want to pay money for legitimate software on the PS3 just like they don't for the other consoles and handhelds out there.

And where were these people two weeks ago? I've been to many websites and even I didn't know people used a PS3 to run another OS.[/QUOTE]

Quit your bitching, you uneducated, judgmental piece of trash. You can tell he is the Anti-Christ by looking at a webcam shot of him? Moron. And all your last statement says is (like I already said) that you are simply uninformed. There are tons of people who run Linux on a PS3. And there are many reasons for doing so. I don't happen to be one, but there are many.

But as others have said, this is just the beginning. Just like with government, you let big brother get away with one thing and it's never going to end. I don't care about OtherOS. But I don't want features to be taken away at all. There are people who use OtherOS. They have the right to continue to do so. And they also have the right to have all the other features previously available as they continue to use OtherOS.

I own over 40 PS3 games. And I have no idea how many PSN games. And I've been just waiting for the past 3 years to hack my PS3, right? Just because I want all features to stay available, huh? Moron. You know, I have a hacked Wii. That must mean I'm a criminal!. Oh. Wait. I have over 50 Wii games that I OWN. Why is my Wii hacked then? Well, since I have to justify everything to you, the reason I first did it was because I heard about a Quake port to the Wii for Homebrew. And no, that isn't stealing. You have to rip the main files from your legitimate Quake PC disc to use the port/emulator. Yes I do own the original disc. And yes, Quake Wii is more than awesome! Since then I have found other fun things to do with a hacked Wii, including installing all 52 of my personally owned Wii games to an HDD and loading them off of it instead of swapping discs all the time. Oh! I'm such a criminal!!!

I also own a hacked PSP and no UMD movies or games. A-ha! I really am a criminal! Actually, the only things I have on there is FFVII (I actually bought the PSP for on-the-go-FFVII) and a SNES emulator with Square-Enix RPGs. And do you know how many copies of those games I have between the SNES, GBA, DS, WiiWare, PS1/2, etc? I'm not even going to try and count.

I also own a DSphat and a DSlite (both launch handhelds). Someone gave me a flash cart because I have over 70 games. There are only ever a few games I am interested in playing at any given period though and they are so tiny (easy to carry a bunch), it's more effort for me to have a hacked DS than it is worth. So my flash cart sits there. I have also had a few games stolen (TWEWY - ;_;) but still haven't used it just to get those games back (that I paid for!).

So you see, your sorry "arguments" that people who are in favor of not removing features from products they own and people who are into homebrew are pirates and thieves and degenerates is simply completely inaccurate. Maybe people just like, you know... a little corporate honesty and accountability, not being stolen from (hey, I paid for that feature, so it IS theft), and basically freedom. If Sony gets away with this, who knows what is next?

Like I have already said, I love my PS3 and the games I own on it. I don't want the PS3 to become the next PSP at all. But taking things away from the folks that paid for it is just wrong. And just because you aren't interested in something doesn't mean there aren't plenty of good people out there who aren't.
 
@ MorPheid

Whatever you say, bub.

Anyway, I'm sure you and your clan of whining little babies will probably get what you want and the PS3 will have its pirated and modded consoles for sale on Kijiji in 2011 just like I see with the 360, Wii and every other console. When it's all said and done, you'll get your wishes because the "vocal minority" always gets what they want in this pathetic society we live in.

Me, I don't care. You want it your way. Have it your way. Just don't act like your the good guys. GeoHotz and his supporters are the villains in my book and that will never change.
 
[quote name='lustyhitter']@ MorPheid

Whatever you say, bub.

Anyway, I'm sure you and your clan of whining little babies will probably get what you want and the PS3 will have its pirated and modded consoles for sale on Kijiji in 2011 just like I see with the 360, Wii and every other console. When it's all said and done, you'll get your wishes because the "vocal minority" always gets what they want in this pathetic society we live in.

Me, I don't care. You want it your way. Have it your way. Just don't act like your the good guys. GeoHotz and his supporters are the villains in my book and that will never change.[/QUOTE]

Oh just shut the fuck up already, will you? You completely ignored Morphiend's well written post because you're 'right' and anyone who is arguing about Sony stealing a function off of the fat PS3's is automatically a pirate, right?

Sony stole a function from the PS3 from ALL users, pirates and non pirates alike, but I guess it's ok because 'they were looking out for you', right? If I still had a fat PS3, even if I never used the Linux feature, I'd still want it because I PAID FOR IT.

Go play some of your non pirated games and get lost already, will ya?
 
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[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Oh just shut the fuck up already, will you? You completely ignored Morphiend's well written post because you're 'right' and anyone who is arguing about Sony stealing a function off of the fat PS3's is automatically a pirate, right?

Sony stole a function from the PS3 from ALL users, pirates and non pirates alike, but I guess it's ok because 'they were looking out for you', right? If I still had a fat PS3, even if I never used the Linux feature, I'd still want it because I PAID FOR IT.

Go play some of your non pirated games and get lost already, will ya?[/QUOTE]

I'm not going to get lost. You're just proving my point that your group are nothing more than a bunch of jerks. Nobody here condones piracy. Nobody cared about the other OS feature until all you Tea Party wannabes started this up.

I don't care if they stole this feature. If it means it's harder for you to get the end result you want, so be it. All it does is hurt you and your hacker nation and for that, I applaud Sony.
 
[quote name='lustyhitter']I'm not going to get lost. You're just proving my point that your group are nothing more than a bunch of jerks. Nobody here condones piracy. Nobody cared about the other OS feature until all you Tea Party wannabes started this up.

I don't care if they stole this feature. If it means it's harder for you to get the end result you want, so be it. All it does is hurt you and your hacker nation and for that, I applaud Sony.[/QUOTE]

Again, let me explain this slowly and in words you can understand.

Just because someone wanted the Other OS function kept on their PS3 does NOT make them a pirate. I am not a hacker and I buy my games(cheaply) at retail, whether it's on clearance or not. If you don't believe this and choose to ignore that and call me a liar, then I have proved my point that you will not listen to reasonable people simply saying that they want the Other OS function for non illicit purposes. But hey, you believe what you want. Welcome to my ignore list. I'm done trying to reason with someone who thinks they're right 100% of the time and won't listen to reason.

 
[quote name='lustyhitter']I'm not going to get lost. You're just proving my point that your group are nothing more than a bunch of jerks. Nobody here condones piracy. Nobody cared about the other OS feature until all you Tea Party wannabes started this up.

I don't care if they stole this feature. If it means it's harder for you to get the end result you want, so be it. All it does is hurt you and your hacker nation and for that, I applaud Sony.[/QUOTE]

LOL "My group"? I'm not a hacker(though I did take apart a couple PS2's and Xbox's last gen to clean them properly)and I have nowhere near the technical know-how to 'hack' anything. The people going back and forth with you are simply saying that they paid for a function which Sony STOLE away in the name of 'security' because of a small group of people who may be trying to exploit the system.

But again, you'll ignore that I said I'm not a technophile and ASSume that I'm part of some group that wants the PS3 to be broken for illicit purposes.

I buy my games on clearance most times at retail(whether local shop or big chain like Kmart, Target or Gamestop)and I have never stolen a game in my life and I don't intend to. The reason I'm on CAG is to get deals on games(like the 9 games I just ordered from EA's online store for $26 shipped;))so that I can continue to enjoy my hobby as cheaply as possible.

You may not believe that and you may think that I'm 'omg an evil hacker' and that is your right to believe what you will(even if it's utterly and completely ignorant to do so). But it is also my right to believe that Sony STOLE the Other OS function away from fat PS3 owners and those PS3 owners will not go away until Sony rectifies this or they may use the workaround that has been mentioned both on there and here.

Either way, they stole a function from the system and they're getting alot of rightly deserved flak for it. I hope those people who want the function back don't give up and keep hounding Sony until they cave in and give it back. They deserve to have EVERY function of their PS3 that they paid for.
 
[quote name='lustyhitter']I'm not going to get lost. You're just proving my point that your group are nothing more than a bunch of jerks. Nobody here condones piracy. Nobody cared about the other OS feature until all you Tea Party wannabes started this up.

I don't care if they stole this feature. If it means it's harder for you to get the end result you want, so be it. All it does is hurt you and your hacker nation and for that, I applaud Sony.[/QUOTE]

Ok, despite the fact you're either trolling for the hell of it, or a paid Sony employee (or have WAY too much loyalty to a company, which when you grow up you will learn that will get you nothing in life), I still can't believe you'd post something saying "All it does is hurt you and your hacker nation".

Seriously?? What about this company that was selling a PROFESSIONAL LEVEL H264 encoder that used the PS3 as a near-real-time encoding device, that now has to pull it?
http://codecsys.fixstars.com/en/news/2010/20100330.html

That's just ONE example of LEGITIMATE uses of Linux of the PS3. A use that now people are stuck without because of this firmware.

If you can't see the value in that, then congratulations, you've won your Sony Defense Force badge of honor.

And BTW, the PS3 would've been hacked one day, one way or another. You even admitted that in a way mentioning "All the other pirated consoles" -- it happens to ALL systems eventually. All this did was give hackers-- the ones with the ABILITY to hack the device, but usually not the desire to make mod chips and set up large scale piracy-- a HUGE incentive to give Sony a black eye, and the race is on to hack the system. This WAS NOT HAPPENING and people were more tinkering with it. Now they're determined. So Sony sped up the inevitable. The fact there is now a full, complete dump of the GameOS means a custom firmware is right around the corner-- and guess what? Having OtherOS won't make the tiniest bit of difference one way or another at that point. So Sony basically took a feature from me for NO REASON.
 
[quote name='MorPhiend']Quit your bitching, you uneducated, judgmental piece of trash. You can tell he is the Anti-Christ by looking at a webcam shot of him? Moron. And all your last statement says is (like I already said) that you are simply uninformed. There are tons of people who run Linux on a PS3. And there are many reasons for doing so. I don't happen to be one, but there are many.

But as others have said, this is just the beginning. Just like with government, you let big brother get away with one thing and it's never going to end. I don't care about OtherOS. But I don't want features to be taken away at all. There are people who use OtherOS. They have the right to continue to do so. And they also have the right to have all the other features previously available as they continue to use OtherOS.

I own over 40 PS3 games. And I have no idea how many PSN games. And I've been just waiting for the past 3 years to hack my PS3, right? Just because I want all features to stay available, huh? Moron. You know, I have a hacked Wii. That must mean I'm a criminal!. Oh. Wait. I have over 50 Wii games that I OWN. Why is my Wii hacked then? Well, since I have to justify everything to you, the reason I first did it was because I heard about a Quake port to the Wii for Homebrew. And no, that isn't stealing. You have to rip the main files from your legitimate Quake PC disc to use the port/emulator. Yes I do own the original disc. And yes, Quake Wii is more than awesome! Since then I have found other fun things to do with a hacked Wii, including installing all 52 of my personally owned Wii games to an HDD and loading them off of it instead of swapping discs all the time. Oh! I'm such a criminal!!!

I also own a hacked PSP and no UMD movies or games. A-ha! I really am a criminal! Actually, the only things I have on there is FFVII (I actually bought the PSP for on-the-go-FFVII) and a SNES emulator with Square-Enix RPGs. And do you know how many copies of those games I have between the SNES, GBA, DS, WiiWare, PS1/2, etc? I'm not even going to try and count.

I also own a DSphat and a DSlite (both launch handhelds). Someone gave me a flash cart because I have over 70 games. There are only ever a few games I am interested in playing at any given period though and they are so tiny (easy to carry a bunch), it's more effort for me to have a hacked DS than it is worth. So my flash cart sits there. I have also had a few games stolen (TWEWY - ;_;) but still haven't used it just to get those games back (that I paid for!).

So you see, your sorry "arguments" that people who are in favor of not removing features from products they own and people who are into homebrew are pirates and thieves and degenerates is simply completely inaccurate. Maybe people just like, you know... a little corporate honesty and accountability, not being stolen from (hey, I paid for that feature, so it IS theft), and basically freedom. If Sony gets away with this, who knows what is next?

Like I have already said, I love my PS3 and the games I own on it. I don't want the PS3 to become the next PSP at all. But taking things away from the folks that paid for it is just wrong. And just because you aren't interested in something doesn't mean there aren't plenty of good people out there who aren't.[/QUOTE]

While I agree with a good deal of what you're saying, we don't have a right for any service to be provided to us as an unchanging entity for as long as we see fit.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']While I agree with a good deal of what you're saying, we don't have a right for any service to be provided to us as an unchanging entity for as long as we see fit.[/QUOTE]

My $19.99 in perpetuity DSL from Verizon begs to differ.;) Of course it is only 768kbps DSL, but the point is I've had it for almost three years now at the same exact price.
 
If you signed a contract with Verizon, they need to provide you that service for as long as the contract provides. That's not something they need to fundamentally adhere to for everybody that doesn't have that deal, though - which is to say, it's a not a right for that service to be provided to everybody at that cost for that length of time.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']If you signed a contract with Verizon, they need to provide you that service for as long as the contract provides. That's not something they need to fundamentally adhere to for everybody that doesn't have that deal, though - which is to say, it's a not a right for that service to be provided to everybody at that cost for that length of time.[/QUOTE]

Actually, they've been advertising it as $19.99 for life for a while now, so it IS available to everyone. But Sony really did screw over the legit Linux users because they got scared of a possible threat.

Like we've been saying, what's next? Take away the PS2 BC function via patching the PS3's with the software and hardware to shut off that ability so they can whore out their PS2 downloadable titles on PSN?

They're digging their own grave this gen and it seems like they only want to dig it deeper and deeper so they can't climb back out for next gen.
 
I guess I'm late to the party then:lol: I bought my $600+ console because of backwards compatibility and the ability to use it as a Linux PC in my living room. While I think that Sony has dealt themselves a deathblow with their overreaction to hackers I feel that the solution is simple...

Stop supporting consumer unfriendly companies by buying their products, the only way companies get the message is if it affects their pocketbooks. This is my last Sony product, I have been supporting them since I bought my first walkman in the early 80s and their attitude towards the consumer has become increasingly worse as their ego has grown.

While I first started to play on consoles since I didn't want to worry about using up my HDD space or dealing with upgrades the current generation of consoles has convinced me that PC gaming is indeed far superior. I don't have to worry about my PC losing functionality if and when I choose to update, and there is no worrying about intrusive DRM since I am tech savvy enough to circumvent it if it inconveniences me.

To my fellow CAG'ers never forget the wisdom of the older generations, whenever a business forgets that "The Consumer is always right" it's time to shop elsewhere :cool:.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Actually, they've been advertising it as $19.99 for life for a while now, so it IS available to everyone. But Sony really did screw over the legit Linux users because they got scared of a possible threat.

Like we've been saying, what's next? Take away the PS2 BC function via patching the PS3's with the software and hardware to shut off that ability so they can whore out their PS2 downloadable titles on PSN?

They're digging their own grave this gen and it seems like they only want to dig it deeper and deeper so they can't climb back out for next gen.[/QUOTE]

My point was that they don't have to offer DSL for $19.99 for life for new customers if they choose to stop that promotion, not that they can't, won't or aren't offering that deal for customers. As for providing their current service, it's not a right that you must have that service because you are a paying customer; but they did sign a contract with you stating _____, so they'd best honor _____, or they're liable to be in some trouble.

Sony's case is a little different, as we didn't have a contract that said all of the features are there for life. My best analogy would be the following: when we pay for satellite/cable service, we aren't paying to have every channel that is currently carried by the company for any period of time.

Not that I'm siding with Sony; I think it sucks that OtherOS is gone, and I'm not particularly thrilled with what may come after it. I definitely think it's bad business practice to maneuver like this without explaining it much, and I'll sell my system if they remove BC functionality. I just think our concerns will be heard with greater efficacy if we don't say things like "it's our right to," ignore trolls like lustyhitter, and kept our arguments concise, logical, and monetary.
 
you know, i was wondering, what the hell are those "media servers" i see under like video...are those the places to download mpeg4 movies or something?i just dont get this interface aside from the "disc based" fucntions. i assumed it was a server to download, like sony ftp or something, butit never finds a server, so what is it for?
 
[quote name='chrislisting']you know, i was wondering, what the hell are those "media servers" i see under like video...are those the places to download mpeg4 movies or something?i just dont get this interface aside from the "disc based" fucntions. i assumed it was a server to download, like sony ftp or something, butit never finds a server, so what is it for?[/QUOTE]

The media server is your computer, you can use it to stream music, videos back and forth from your computer.
 
[quote name='lustyhitter']@ Feeding The Abscess

So me being anti-piracy makes me a troll? Explain.[/QUOTE]

It makes you a retard that doesn't try to understand why people are upset. The end.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']It makes you a retard that doesn't try to understand why people are upset. The end.[/QUOTE]

I agree (except the retard bit, which is harsh. Sock puppet? maybe...). Lustyhitter keeps assigning some sinister motive to people who are angered by the revocation of launch features. Dismissing people who are upset by that as thieves isn't accurate or fair.

In any event... I fear the slippery slope. If people just let Sony off without a PR backlash, they would be less concerned about the backlash for taking away something bigger that more people use in the name of 'security'.

A lot of anger over this 'little thing' may prevent a 'big thing' later on.
 
Guys, all your bitching and complaining isnt going to accomplish crap. Seriously.

You want to keep linux? Don't upgrade your firmware. Use hacks to get online if you like. Whatever.

The rest of us will upgrade and keep on trucking. I realize that taking away functionality is BAD, but really, all your complaining does is nothing. Might as well make a internet petition, i hear those work well.

If you are done with sony, sell all your games and keep the system as a linux machine, or just keep what you have, etc, and never buy another ps3 game again.

Complaining on CAG isnt going to change squat. So lets all move on.

I know people like cheapest gamer exist because they thrive on bitching and acting like a whining 10 year old, but i think the rest of you can realize what the situation is, and how futile it is to demand anything to change. Its over and the majority doesn't care.
 
I must of use "other os" like only for a month when I first got my launch gen ps3.

Used yellowdog for a bit...then something else.

And yea I pretty much never used it again.. It sucks to see it go though as it could have led to CFW's etc and other cool stuff.
 
When it seems like the people upset over the loss of the "other OS" feature come off sounding like jilted little kids, I going to have to wonder. I find it hard to believe that thousands of people used a PS3 to run Linux when you could buy a PC at a cheaper price and run it on that, probably better. Also, seeing that GeoHotz, a noted hacker, is the reason that they may have removed this feature, you have to wonder what he had in store.

If you don't want to upgrade, don't. All I'm saying is that most people either don't care or wonder why people are making such a hullabaloo over 3.21.
 
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