Would Nintendo be better of as a game-maker? (A What If...? Thread)

[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Feel free to add to the list of current-gen games whose gameplay cannot be recreated with PS2 processing power. I'm willing to consider them.[/QUOTE]



This is quite a silly argument are hear all the time, and not just from those deeply connected to the Nintendo fanboy culture. I get, we could technically have 1st person shooters on ps2 hardware, so whats the point of playing a fps on a newer kind of hard ware. It kind of misses the point of a lot of things. Maybe this is because I am a pc gamer (more fuel to the fire I know) as well as a console gamer, but immersion through graphics does make a difference and allow for new play styles to flower (I'm refusing the use of the word gameplay). I don't think that games like gears of war or Killzone 2 would have been as nearly as good as they are (I happen to enjoy both) without increased power of consoles. Of course there are games like crysis, which even if it is a pc game, you cannot possible render as much space at one time to allow for the quick traversal of the character and environment manipulation.

If you think that graphics or environmental manipulation in games is not important, that effectively modern 3d games are just a polygonal skeleton with little to now neccesity for any skin or wrapping, thats fine its your opinion. But I highly suggest you take into account more than just boiling down each game to its most basic genre motif and throwing it out the window. Its that idea that discourages creativity in the industry in the first place.

But hey, its just an opinion.
 
you need to stop playing armchair quarterback and realize you know NOTHING about this industry or market if you think that the company who went from a distant 3rd to a runaway top seller due to their hardware being cheaper and more appealing needs to get out of hardware.

Nintendo get out of hardware.. It will never happen. Hardware is at Nintendo's very core. Hardware is where all of their best ideas and greatest successes start. The Wii and DS are just the most recent ones. The Game Boy, the NES, and the Analog Stick before that all were methods of enabling a great software idea.
 
[quote name='udabenshen']This is quite a silly argument are hear all the time, and not just from those deeply connected to the Nintendo fanboy culture. I get, we could technically have 1st person shooters on ps2 hardware, so whats the point of playing a fps on a newer kind of hard ware. It kind of misses the point of a lot of things. [/quote]
No your not getting his point. If you look at the jump from snes-sega era to the ps1-n64 era, or the jump from the ps1-n64 to the last gen. You will see new game types occurring. example: the snes-sega era I don't think had any 3d action/platformer type games which where extreamly popular in the ps1-n64 gen. The ps1-64 gen had very few fps games and none of the where like the fps games that came out in the box-gc-ps2 era not to metion multiplayes.
But this new gen dosn't seem to have brought us any new game types, they games are just better looking. They biggest change this gen is probably the OS's on the concels making the resemble specialized PC's.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']No your not getting his point. If you look at the jump from snes-sega era to the ps1-n64 era, or the jump from the ps1-n64 to the last gen. You will see new game types occurring. example: the snes-sega era I don't think had any 3d action/platformer type games which where extreamly popular in the ps1-n64 gen. The ps1-64 gen had very few fps games and none of the where like the fps games that came out in the box-gc-ps2 era not to metion multiplayes.
But this new gen dosn't seem to have brought us any new game types, they games are just better looking. They biggest change this gen is probably the OS's on the concels making the resemble specialized PC's.[/QUOTE]

There's not often changes that lead to new type of games. Look at the history of gaming.

We had the Atari, Intellevision etc. etc.--basically simple, single screen games for the most part.

Then we go to the NES era--big change with 2D scrolling games and lots of new genres emerging.

SNES/Genesis era--not many new genres, just better and more polished graphics and gameplay in mainly the types of games we were playing in the NES era.

PS1/N64 era--start of 3D console gaming, so lots of new styles of games, though many were just 3D takes on existing genres

PS2/GC/Xbox era- did what the SNES/Genesis era did for 2D gaming--3D games become more polished in both gameplay and graphics, more FPS etc.

And now to this gen--introduction of HD consoles so our games look better than ever, online console gaming goes fully mainstream with most games having online play and/or DLC etc.

So really, other than the move from single screen 2D games to scrolling ones, and from 2D to 3D changes in gaming have been incremental. I'm very happy with this generation. HD graphics are great, there are a ton of good FPS and WRPGs which are my favorite genres now, online play and good DLC have given games a lot of added replay value etc. etc.
 
I can't imagine Nintendo being "better off" they're already number one... what else do they need to do at this point.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']
SNES/Genesis era--not many new genres, just better and more polished graphics and gameplay in mainly the types of games we were playing in the NES era.
[/quote]
Really? do you think games like mario kart, mortal combat, or sonic could have been done on the nes?
(I'm sure you could have some kind of approximation of the game on the nes but there's no doubt gameplay would be lost)

[quote name='dmaul1114']
PS2/GC/Xbox era- did what the SNES/Genesis era did for 2D gaming--3D games become more polished in both gameplay and graphics, more FPS etc.
[/quote]
I would think the n64 ps1 would be hard pressed to do, GTA3, halo, RE4.
This was also the generation that rhythm/music games took off.(had nothing to do with power but still new.)
[quote name='dmaul1114']
And now to this gen--introduction of HD consoles so our games look better than ever, online console gaming goes fully mainstream with most games having online play and/or DLC etc.
[/quote]
Games look better than ever each generation. The consoles are acting more like PCs and most of the games are just squeals or imitations of the competitors offerings. Nothing new just upgrades
 
Sure stuff like Mario Kart etc. couldnt' have been done very well on the NES--but there was stuff like RC Pro-am that was similar types of game play. Same with GTA3 on the PS1/N64--couldn't be done as well but there were 3D games with big worlds on them.

What I was saying is we saw graphics and gameplay improved but didn't really get anything terribly new those genereations IMO.

I'd agree we may have gotten less this time--but look at the history. We had only 2 REAL 2D generations (NES then SNES/Genesis) before moving to 3D. This is the 3rd generation of 3D, so where just seeing more incremental updates--better graphics, larger worlds, more characters on screen, better online modes etc.

And I'm fine with that. FPS games and WRPGs are about all I care about anymore and this generation has been great for them. Those genre's have gotten big leaps this genereation IMO as the HD graphics are awesome and get more more immersed, worlds are larger, online play is more fleshed out, DLC keeps games like Oblivion going much longer than they would have in the past on consoles etc. etc.

But yeah, I guess this gen could kind of suck for those not into those two genres or some of the other ones like sports, racing, etc. that are still getting a lot of games.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']No your not getting his point. If you look at the jump from snes-sega era to the ps1-n64 era, or the jump from the ps1-n64 to the last gen. You will see new game types occurring. example: the snes-sega era I don't think had any 3d action/platformer type games which where extreamly popular in the ps1-n64 gen. The ps1-64 gen had very few fps games and none of the where like the fps games that came out in the box-gc-ps2 era not to metion multiplayes.
But this new gen dosn't seem to have brought us any new game types, they games are just better looking. They biggest change this gen is probably the OS's on the concels making the resemble specialized PC's.[/QUOTE]


There's at least as much new stuff now as there was going from the NES/SNES. The generation after that perhaps was unique in that you had useable 3D for the first time, but this current generation has IMO probably a bigger gap than between the Saturn -> Wii, which was already plenty big.

[quote name='itachiitachi']Really? do you think games like mario kart, mortal combat, or sonic could have been done on the nes?
(I'm sure you could have some kind of approximation of the game on the nes but there's no doubt gameplay would be lost)

[/quote]

Not remotely as well, which is the same for this generation versus the last. You could try to cram some of this gens games on the last generation, but they would amount to doing those games on the NES (or worse in a lot of cases, since a lot of current gen games would be worse on the PS2 than Sonic would be on the NES IMO).

I would think the n64 ps1 would be hard pressed to do, GTA3, halo, RE4.
This was also the generation that rhythm/music games took off.(had nothing to do with power but still new.)

Games look better than ever each generation. The consoles are acting more like PCs and most of the games are just squeals or imitations of the competitors offerings. Nothing new just upgrades
Click to expand...

I'm not understanding why you're getting that for previous generations, but not this one. It's the same type of jump, at least.

[quote name='dmaul1114']
And I'm fine with that. FPS games and WRPGs are about all I care about anymore and this generation has been great for them. Those genre's have gotten big leaps this genereation IMO as the HD graphics are awesome and get more more immersed, worlds are larger, online play is more fleshed out, DLC keeps games like Oblivion going much longer than they would have in the past on consoles etc. etc.[/quote]

Forget the DLC, the larger point is Oblivion needs current gen hardware, and that was just the tip of the iceberg.

Even something that I think could more or less be done on the previous generation-lets say Lost Odyssey, it would have ended up looking probably a lot worse than Final Fantasy 10. Nothing wrong with doing it on better hardware.
 
Is Sega a better company now that it is only a game developer? Seems like they are doing okay to me. But are they a lot better off? Maybe, maybe not. I miss Dreamcast ~_~
 
As everyone has already concluded, no, of course N would not be better off.

On a purely personal perspective, I wish they would go 3rd party. They make so few games that I want that there is no way I'd buy a wii just for them, but I'd still like to play them.
 
You guys also forget that Nintendo can delay their games to get them right. Many of their games would be rushed and unpolished if they had Sony and Microsoft breathing down their necks. Everyone was pissed that Super Mario Galaxy came out a year after the Wii came out but I can't find one person that wasn't happy with the result.
 
[quote name='depascal22']You guys also forget that Nintendo can delay their games to get them right. Many of their games would be rushed and unpolished if they had Sony and Microsoft breathing down their necks. Everyone was pissed that Super Mario Galaxy came out a year after the Wii came out but I can't find one person that wasn't happy with the result.[/quote]
Post 17. Boyeeeeeeeeeeee.

Ok, that last bit was stupid, but I did mention it earlier.
 
[quote name='camoor']Why did Punisher want to kill Spiderman, and how did he do it?

Personally I don't see it happening. Punisher doesn't have superpowers so his only chance is use his knowledge of tactics to ambush Spiderman and take him by surprise. Except that's impossible because Spiderman has both super-agility, super-speed, and (this is the clincher) spider-sense.[/quote]Punisher once killed the whole Marvel Universe . . .
 
[quote name='cochesecochese']Post 17. Boyeeeeeeeeeeee.

Ok, that last bit was stupid, but I did mention it earlier.[/quote]

I still got a laugh out of it but we're on the same wavelength with the quality issues they will have if they have to meet other companies deadlines.

Also, why is everyone bashing Nintendo for their graphics? Every press release leading up to the release indicated that Nintendo wasn't going to give a damn about HD or super-competitive online play but here we are and people are still bitching about it.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I still got a laugh out of it but we're on the same wavelength with the quality issues they will have if they have to meet other companies deadlines.

Also, why is everyone bashing Nintendo for their graphics? Every press release leading up to the release indicated that Nintendo wasn't going to give a damn about HD or super-competitive online play but here we are and people are still bitching about it.[/QUOTE]

It's not just the graphics, its the whole thing. Last gen technology, and actually in general a far worse line up than they were doing on the Gamecube.
 
Just because they announced it in advance doesn't make it suck any less for people who are a fan of their franchises but also prefer to have cutting edge HD graphics and online play.

And it was a disappointment and Nintendo's console had always been at or near the top of the consoles in the graphic's war in previous generations.

The latter bothered me when I bought it as I hated that they weren't pushing that envelop anymore, the former didn't bother me much as I didn't have an HDTV and had done really no online gaming as of the Wii launch. But after getting an HDTV in June 2007 and a 360 in October of that year and being wowed by HD graphics and sucked into some online play it became clear the Wii just wasn't for me and it was sold shortly there after.

Though a bigger part of it was that there were just literally no games after Zelda, Mario and Metroid that I really gave a crap about. And there's still been nothing released that's made me regret selling it. I see the appeal for people who like what they're doing, but I'm just no into to Wii Sports, Wii Fit type of casual games or quirky stuff like NMH, Mad World, trauma center etc. As someone who really only plays FPS and WRPGs, with a few action/adventure RPGs (like Zelda) and the occasional platformer there was just no need to own a Wii.
 
Maybe it's just me, but I think part of the mystic of Nintendo is how well they have their franchises built around a console and its launch. Not only that, but how certain themes go with the console (take the Cube, you have Super Mario Sunshine, then Sunshine levels on Mario Kart and SSBM, etc).

My hunch is, if Nintendo went 3rd party, they would be big, but they wouldn't be as big or as important. Let alone, they are making a killing in the console market doing things their way. They really have it perfectly streddled. They have a large contingent of new, non gamers buying their system, they have gamers maybe unhappy, but many still own a Wii and play a handful of games, and they are marketed as the 'safe' console pick. If you have to suggest a console for your 10 year old relative to parents who don't know much and don't really care, it's much easier to say Wii and Mario than it is to say Xbox 360, but avoid half the big games for violence reasons.
 
[quote name='lordxixor101']Maybe it's just me, but I think part of the mystic of Nintendo is how well they have their franchises built around a console and its launch. Not only that, but how certain themes go with the console (take the Cube, you have Super Mario Sunshine, then Sunshine levels on Mario Kart and SSBM, etc).
[/quote]Minor note - there was no Sunshine level in Melee. That only showed up in Brawl. And there was no Galaxy level in Brawl or MK Wii.

EDIT: Come to think of it, Melee had Ocarina/Majora levels. Brawl had the Wind Waker level. But to be fair, I think Melee predated Wind Waker.
 
I officially no longer care about Hal anymore. I liked their 8-bit stuff, but haven't liked anything since (though I never played the SNES Dreamland 3, so maybe I'd like that).
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']It's not just the graphics, its the whole thing. Last gen technology, and actually in general a far worse line up than they were doing on the Gamecube.[/quote]

All I'm saying is that everyone knew this going in. It just seems petty to be still bitching about it at this point.

Also, I don't think the Gamecube's lineup was all that hot. I liked the first party games, Rogue Squadron, Eternal Darkness, and Tales of Symphonia. Other than that, there wasn't a single exclusive that I really liked.

lordxixor's right. Nintendo caters to kids and families with kids. MS and Sony cater to the young male. There can be room for both in the console world. If Nintendo stopped making consoles, you could pretty much kiss the industry good-bye because you'll never get fresh blood other than the 13 year old asshole that loves to kill his own teammates in the latest Xbox 360/PS3 FPS.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Very true. But the difference was in the past there was enough for adults who were serious gamers to play and enjoy to justify owning the console. Not so much with the Wii IMO.

But in all honestly it's been a downhill shift for them on that front from the N64 on with each gen having less and less third party support and thus less serious/non-kiddie games overall. And that's just been amplified this generation with a lot of focus going to casual gamers on top of the kid friendly fare.

But oh well, like you say there's room for both and there's two good consoles our there serving the needs of traditional gamers.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']I officially no longer care about Hal anymore. I liked their 8-bit stuff, but haven't liked anything since (though I never played the SNES Dreamland 3, so maybe I'd like that).[/quote]Really? Earthbound? Sim City SNES?
 
Depends on your perspective.

From a hardcore gamer's view, we'd probably be better off. With the focus off of hardware, and attempting to gain new audiences, Nintendo's attention would turn back squarely on us. Given the power of the systems they'd be using, they could deliver the sort of Mario, Zelda, Metroid experiences that would blow our minds.

From a stockholder's point of view, this would be a horrible move. No matter how successful Nintendo is in software, it's most likely dwarfed by the hardware margins and licensing fees they are enjoying on the DS and Wii.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Also, I don't think the Gamecube's lineup was all that hot. I liked the first party games, Rogue Squadron, Eternal Darkness, and Tales of Symphonia. Other than that, there wasn't a single exclusive that I really liked.[/quote]

Well, personal preference of course, but I thought Nintendo's first/second party Gamecube stuff was as strong as they'd done since the NES, and the Wiis is weaker than they've ever been. I mean I've liked ONE GAME so far (with the possibility that I'll love Wario Land-it's in my backlog).

lordxixor's right. Nintendo caters to kids and families with kids. MS and Sony cater to the young male.
Click to expand...

I think Nintendo used to to a large extent. It used to be easy for me to recommend them for kids
 
Wolfpup, I still don't understand why you're saying that the Wii fans don't like video games. My buddy got a Wii and plays the hell out of Galaxy, Wii Sports, and LEGO Star Wars. He likes that you don't have cursing 13 year old kids going all crazy because you got one headshot in Call of Duty 4. I've also exposed him to some good Gamecube games like Eternal Darkness and Resident Evil 4. This is the same buddy that used to school me in Street Fighter II after school. This was the same buddy that figured out all the Fatalities on Mortal Kombat. Are you telling me that he hates video games because he just wants to have fun after work instead of going crazy trying to beat a boss in Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry? Is he not a gamer because he chooses not to get on Xbox Live and get cursed out by little bastards?

You're saying No More Heroes, MadWorld, Super Paper Mario, and Smash Bros. do absolutely nothing to advance the art form? You're saying that the hottest new shooter or racing game is way better than any of those?

Kids are getting into gaming with the Wii and will continue to seek out more mature fare as they get older just like we did. You can't expect them to just get into Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy and love it right away. I started with Pac Man, Defender, and Frogger. None of those games are extremely hardcore. They're easy to pick up and play and require little video game experience to get. From that, I got into Sonic, Madden, Street Fighter, and Desert Strike. I wouldn't have liked those games if I hadn't started with the Atari.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Wolfpup, I still don't understand why you're saying that the Wii fans don't like video games. My buddy got a Wii and plays the hell out of Galaxy, Wii Sports, and LEGO Star Wars.[/quote]

Galaxy's awesome, but there aren't enough games like it. Lego Star Wars is better on the current gen platforms (or portable on the PSP).

I've also exposed him to some good Gamecube games like Eternal Darkness and Resident Evil 4.
Click to expand...

Which are awesome, but precisely NOT the kind of games Nintendo's known for right now. That type of development moved to the 360/PS3.

Are you telling me that he hates video games because he just wants to have fun after work instead of going crazy trying to beat a boss in Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry?
Click to expand...

No, of course not, but so far you've named a bunch of stuff that's why you'd want to have a 360/PS3 (aside from Wii Sports...) I can't stand hard games, but that's got nothing to do with wanting deep stuff versus like mini-game collections.

You're saying No More Heroes, MadWorld, Super Paper Mario, and Smash Bros. do absolutely nothing to advance the art form?
Click to expand...

Those games are the exception on the Wii, not the rule, and you're not going to find many critics saying those are better than stuff released on any random month on the new systems. If you're in to stuff like that, that again is exactly why the Wii shouldn't be a first choice.

Kids are getting into gaming with the Wii and will continue to seek out more mature fare as they get older just like we did. You can't expect them to just get into Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy and love it right away. I started with Pac Man, Defender, and Frogger. None of those games are extremely hardcore. They're easy to pick up and play and require little video game experience to get. From that, I got into Sonic, Madden, Street Fighter, and Desert Strike. I wouldn't have liked those games if I hadn't started with the Atari.
Click to expand...

Plenty of people started with every given generation. Personally I had fairly little interest in gaming until I got a PC, and then a NES (and played on friends C64s). Those simple Atari style things were HARD, they just had very little depth, which is about the opposite of what I want.

And yeah, people do start on deep stuff all the time. And anyway, none of the games you mentioned (except that one) are that type of mini-game experience.
 
I've personally played LEGO Star Wars on the PS2, Gamecube, Wii, and the 360 and I don't find any groundbreaking differences that would kill the game on the Wii. Please illuminate the huge differences that make the other LEGOs better on everything but the Wii.

I name games that are out for the Wii right now that aren't mini-game collections and you say it's just a minority. Just a couple posts ago, you said there wasn't anything out there. I'm sure I could dig a couple more up and you would make another lame ass excuse for how they aren't any good. How about:

Zak and Wiki
Red Steel (not the best game but something different)
Zelda Twilight Princess
Metroid Prime 3

I can name more but I'd like to hear about how these aren't just hardcore (deep) enough or how these games just don't cater to your PERSONAL needs. Because Nintendo has to make games that only you like or else it's just a piece of shit that doesn't stack up to any other system that have ever come out.

Shouldn't we be embracing new gamers and the games they like instead of the same ole bullshit every time? It's time to adapt or become extinct. I'd much rather have video gaming become a bigger segment that allows people of all segments to come in and enjoy a game instead of having to learn complicated control schemes or play a game for 100 hours to fully enjoy it. You seem to forget that some people just want to pick up a game for fifteen minutes a day and have FUN. That doesn't happen if you have to go run five side missions to build up rep so you can advance in the story. Some people don't give two shits about a story. It's about getting a high score or just beating the other person in the room. But then, mini games could never possibly give anyone that enjoyment because it's not deep or hardcore.

Thanks for giving me another reason to stay the fuck away from this site.
 
[quote name='depascal22']I've personally played LEGO Star Wars on the PS2, Gamecube, Wii, and the 360 and I don't find any groundbreaking differences that would kill the game on the Wii. Please illuminate the huge differences that make the other LEGOs better on everything but the Wii. [/quote]

Err..I already did, and it's pretty self evident. Not that one would buy another system just for a better version of that game, but using that as "hey look what the Wii has!" isn't terribly convincing.

I name games that are out for the Wii right now that aren't mini-game collections and you say it's just a minority. Just a couple posts ago, you said there wasn't anything out there.
Click to expand...

I didn't say there wasn't anything, there isn't much. Any given month there's probably more on the current gen systems than the Wii gets in a year, for people like us.

Shouldn't we be embracing new gamers and the games they like instead of the same ole bullshit every time? It's time to adapt or become extinct.
Click to expand...

An industry rivaling the U.S. film industry was in no danger of going extinct. And sure, new gamers are great, but its never been clear the Wii is going to bring in people who will branch out into other things.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Minor note - there was no Sunshine level in Melee. That only showed up in Brawl. And there was no Galaxy level in Brawl or MK Wii.

EDIT: Come to think of it, Melee had Ocarina/Majora levels. Brawl had the Wind Waker level. But to be fair, I think Melee predated Wind Waker.[/QUOTE]


Fair point, it's been years since I played Melee, and I probably only put 30 hours into brawl (so, enjoyed the game, but I'm not a superfan). I went completely off my memory.

So, good catch.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top