Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

[RiPPn]

Dude you have been warned once for mods for your awesome ability to troll. Back off of me and take a deep breath for a second. You truly are making this more personal than the spirit of debate.

I've never been warned by the mods for anything, what are you talking about? And you're the one making it personal, every thread I post in there you are labeling me a troll, yet you go into the PS4 threads posting the same sorts of things. So quit acting like you're a victim and innocent and doing it in the spirit of debate.

 

[WV Matsui]

Dude you have been warned once for mods for your awesome ability to troll. Back off of me and take a deep breath for a second. You truly are making this more personal than the spirit of debate.


I've never been warned by the mods for anything, what are you talking about? And you're the one making it personal, every thread I post in there you are labeling me a troll, yet you go into the PS4 threads posting the same sorts of things. So quit acting like you're a victim and innocent and doing it in the spirit of debate.

All I posted in the pS4 thread were new stories relating to the story. Also posted hardware pictures. I have never gone in there and trashed the PS4 which is what you have been doing the entire time in all of the X1 threads.

Good news on Halo
http://gamerant.com/halo-reclaimer-trilogy-now-saga/

 

[Mako1215]

Dude you have been warned once for mods for your awesome ability to troll. Back off of me and take a deep breath for a second. You truly are making this more personal than the spirit of debate.


I've never been warned by the mods for anything, what are you talking about? And you're the one making it personal, every thread I post in there you are labeling me a troll, yet you go into the PS4 threads posting the same sorts of things. So quit acting like you're a victim and innocent and doing it in the spirit of debate.

io has posted a couple times telling you to cool it down.

 

[StryderOmega]

Maybe I will pick up the X1 when it is custom made and bundled with Halo... Maybe. As long as its not as ugly as the Halo 3 360.

 

[phantomfriar2002]

I love how Ashane keeps changing to completely different arguments because even he knows that there is no excuse for how badly MS botched this product reveal.

come launch in nov no one will even care about it anymore it's already old news they did a dumb mistake move on.

Timbo, I finally agree with you. For the average consumer, none of this is going to matter come November. There will always be message board arguments running in circles for years, but beyond the fanboy fringe, MS botching the DRM issue is going to be a non-issue once these consoles hit the market. If people want to debate the added $100 cost, or forced Kinect -- those are legit because they're still on the table, but the DRM element will be ancient history by the time we get to this holiday season.

Really I don't understand this "good versus evil" juvenile discussion over MS and Sony. Never for a second do I believe Sony wouldn't have implemented the exact same DRM if they believed the market would've gone with it. These are huge corporations making business decisions. Sony isn't an angelic company shunning DRM for ethical reasons...they simply made a savvier business decision based on a more accurate read of the consumer market right now. MS didn't have a handle on it, and scrambled to change course, but they did it eventually once reaction came out. Maybe they were intentionally vague the entire time on used games because they were waiting to see the reaction before coming to a final decision. Either way, nobody will argue that MS didn't handle it well -- but that part is going to be a non-factor 6 months from now when it hits the market, especially for the average consumer who is scarcely paying attention at the moment anyway.

Why the discussion on it is continuing is odd but unsurprising, as the fanboys obviously can't let it go. We ought to be talking about tech specs, game titles, etc. right now.

 

[atomicsmurf]

"You'll still need an internet connection to set up your Xbox One console, but after that you can "play any disc based game without ever connecting online again"."

Why would anyone need to connect to the internet to set up the X1?  I don't get it.  You mean I can't activate the console and play games on it until I connect the console to the internet and unlock it?  You mean the console is going to be a big brick until I check in with MS online and they let me activate the console so I can play my games?

Am I reading this wrong?  I don't have my console online, I don't play online, and I don't want to pay more money to upgrade to a better internet just to activate a console.

If somebody has a better understanding of how this one-time online setup works please explain it to me.

 

[WV Matsui]

"You'll still need an internet connection to set up your Xbox One console, but after that you can "play any disc based game without ever connecting online again"."

Why would anyone need to connect to the internet to set up the X1? I don't get it. You mean I can't activate the console and play games on it until I connect the console to the internet and unlock it? You mean the console is going to be a big brick until I check in with MS online and they let me activate the console so I can play my games?

Am I reading this wrong? I don't have my console online, I don't play online, and I don't want to pay more money to upgrade to a better internet just to activate a console.

If somebody has a better understanding of how this one-time online setup works please explain it to me.



It's to download the day one patch that will reverse the DRM etc.

 

[cgarb84]

I heard somewhere that the reason you have to download the day 1 patch to do anything with it is because that patch is what takes off all of the DRM related restrictions.  I think the X1 will technically be "locked down" until you get that patch that un-s everything they did originally.

 

[DNukem170]

I believe the Day One patch only applies to games. The TV stuff doesn't need Internet, unless said app requires it like social media stuff.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

This is just my guess, but I think MS is going to end up doing just fine with the XB1. I think the $100 additional price tag -- while nobody wants to pay it -- isn't so exorbitant that it's going to stop those who love Xbox Live from switching over to the PS4. Now that the DRM has been dropped and really the big selling point (price aside) for Sony has been negated (let's face it, for most people, until they had that "our console plays used games!" moment in E3, Sony's press conference was pretty boring especially where games were concerned), I think the XB1 is going to sell and sell well. The exclusives look a bit stronger (Knack reminds me of Kameo and not in a good way for Sony) on the MS side for the moment.

Personally I preordered both consoles and will keep the preorders until everything shakes down. That said, I prefer Xbox Live and the controller over the Playstation Network and Dualshock, so I'm likely going with the XB1 now that the DRM issue was dropped...even if I'm forced (dammit!) to use the new Kinect...which I think we'd all prefer not to have.

i think x1 will be fine with the 500 doller price point also if you look at all you get with it the price tag is not that high. Yes most people don't want kinect but it's a good value. If you think about it in the end the ps4 is close to 500 dollers at launch also if you want to play online games and don't already have ps + that adds 50 bucks to the 400 so after tax your close to 500. i still think we will see a way less price sku for x1 that will require a month sub to xbox live.

I love how Ashane keeps changing to completely different arguments because even he knows that there is no excuse for how badly MS botched this product reveal.

come launch in nov no one will even care about it anymore it's already old news they did a dumb mistake move on.

Timbo, I finally agree with you. For the average consumer, none of this is going to matter come November. There will always be message board arguments running in circles for years, but beyond the fanboy fringe, MS botching the DRM issue is going to be a non-issue once these consoles hit the market. If people want to debate the added $100 cost, or forced Kinect -- those are legit because they're still on the table, but the DRM element will be ancient history by the time we get to this holiday season.

Really I don't understand this "good versus evil" juvenile discussion over MS and Sony. Never for a second do I believe Sony wouldn't have implemented the exact same DRM if they believed the market would've gone with it. These are huge corporations making business decisions. Sony isn't an angelic company shunning DRM for ethical reasons...they simply made a savvier business decision based on a more accurate read of the consumer market right now. MS didn't have a handle on it, and scrambled to change course, but they did it eventually once reaction came out. Maybe they were intentionally vague the entire time on used games because they were waiting to see the reaction before coming to a final decision. Either way, nobody will argue that MS didn't handle it well -- but that part is going to be a non-factor 6 months from now when it hits the market, especially for the average consumer who is scarcely paying attention at the moment anyway.

Why the discussion on it is continuing is odd but unsurprising, as the fanboys obviously can't let it go. We ought to be talking about tech specs, game titles, etc. right now.

thing is most causal gamers don't even follow gaming news so good chance will never know what happend lol.

I believe the Day One patch only applies to games. The TV stuff doesn't need Internet, unless said app requires it like social media stuff.

you are required to connect to internet at launch plus i really wonder if that tv thing is free or you need gold. i know for verizon fios tv thing you need to be a xbox gold member to use it

 

[atomicsmurf]

I heard somewhere that the reason you have to download the day 1 patch to do anything with it is because that patch is what takes off all of the DRM related restrictions. I think the X1 will technically be "locked down" until you get that patch that un-s everything they did originally.

They can't patch their own system before it goes to retail? Or put the patch on the game discs?

Mehn... I'll wait for an unlocked X1 to come out a couple of years down the road.

Thanks for the answers!

 

[TimboSliceGB]

I heard somewhere that the reason you have to download the day 1 patch to do anything with it is because that patch is what takes off all of the DRM related restrictions. I think the X1 will technically be "locked down" until you get that patch that un-s everything they did originally.

well they did say the day one patch was going to happen with drm or no drm but this is ms we are talking about they love to lie about stuff.

I heard somewhere that the reason you have to download the day 1 patch to do anything with it is because that patch is what takes off all of the DRM related restrictions. I think the X1 will technically be "locked down" until you get that patch that un-s everything they did originally.

They can't patch their own system before it goes to retail? Or put the patch on the game discs?

Mehn... I'll wait for an unlocked X1 to come out a couple of years down the road.

Thanks for the answers!

im sure the systems are already in production and already packaged up

im not even looking forward to halo 5 seeing halo 4 was a big negative for me. in my mind once bungie left halo died with it.

 

[Kazuya]

There's nothing sinister about the day one patch.  Since it was originally assumed that every system would be online, the software team was given a later deadline than the hardware team.  I suppose it could be to remove the DRM but them saying it was going to happen all along is perfectly logical.  At some point, you've got to finalize the hardware and go, but the always on thing would have allowed them to have a longer development cycle on the firmware if they wanted.

 

[htz]

im sure the systems are already in production and already packaged up

I hope they give more time to ensure the hardware is reliable instead of rushing it out the door to make it out in time for the holidays. They can't fix hardware issues unlike software once it is out the door. I still have flashbacks to my launch xbox 360 which randomly frozed, had disc tray issue, and rrod.

 

[TooPoor]

I heard somewhere that the reason you have to download the day 1 patch to do anything with it is because that patch is what takes off all of the DRM related restrictions. I think the X1 will technically be "locked down" until you get that patch that un-s everything they did originally.

They can't patch their own system before it goes to retail? Or put the patch on the game discs?

Mehn... I'll wait for an unlocked X1 to come out a couple of years down the road.

Thanks for the answers!

So bypass day one patch (somehow), have ability to play w/o disc after installation, sell game immediately = profit?

In all seriousness, it's a little late for them to change the native firmware I think.

im sure the systems are already in production and already packaged up

I hope they give more time to ensure the hardware is reliable instead of rushing it out the door to make it out in time for the holidays. They can't fix hardware issues unlike software once it is out the door. I still have flashbacks to my launch xbox 360 which randomly frozed, had disc tray issue, and rrod.

Exactly, especially that yield issues were previously reported.

 

[Kazuya]

I heard somewhere that the reason you have to download the day 1 patch to do anything with it is because that patch is what takes off all of the DRM related restrictions. I think the X1 will technically be "locked down" until you get that patch that un-s everything they did originally.

They can't patch their own system before it goes to retail? Or put the patch on the game discs?

Mehn... I'll wait for an unlocked X1 to come out a couple of years down the road.

Thanks for the answers!

So bypass day one patch (somehow), have ability to play w/o disc after installation, sell game immediately = profit?

In all seriousness, it's a little late for them to change the native firmware I think.

I'm trying to figure out what kind of weirdo can't even deal with a one time internet patch. Are they still playing their 360s with the original "blades" interface? On the other hand, here I am making fun of them when they at least will be safe from Kinect streaming footage of them in their boxers straight to Obama's desk.

 

[Monsta Mack]

I heard somewhere that the reason you have to download the day 1 patch to do anything with it is because that patch is what takes off all of the DRM related restrictions. I think the X1 will technically be "locked down" until you get that patch that un-s everything they did originally.

They can't patch their own system before it goes to retail? Or put the patch on the game discs?

Mehn... I'll wait for an unlocked X1 to come out a couple of years down the road.

Thanks for the answers!

Um, if they are this far into production for launch units? No, probably not. This means MS is pretty serious about ramping up production for the holidays.

After launch? I'm sure you won't need to do an update as future systems will most likely have the update applied.

I'm sure there will be a way to update via USB as well for those that access the internet at home, IE at a friends house or something.

 

[htz]

I'm trying to figure out what kind of weirdo can't even deal with a one time internet patch. Are they still playing their 360s with the original "blades" interface? On the other hand, here I am making fun of them when they at least will be safe from Kinect streaming footage of them in their boxers straight to Obama's desk.

With the xbox 360(same for ps3), if a game required a newer firmware to run, they could install that firmware from the game disc. So you never really had to be online to get the newest firmware update. I wonder if Microsoft will have learned from the Wii U's day 1 patch by staggering the update so it doesn't overload the servers on launch day...

 

[Kazuya]

I'm trying to figure out what kind of weirdo can't even deal with a one time internet patch. Are they still playing their 360s with the original "blades" interface? On the other hand, here I am making fun of them when they at least will be safe from Kinect streaming footage of them in their boxers straight to Obama's desk.

With the xbox 360(same for ps3), if a game required a newer firmware to run, they could install that firmware from the game disc. So you never really had to be online to get the newest firmware update. I wonder if Microsoft will have learned from the Wii U's day 1 patch by staggering the update so it doesn't overload the servers on launch day...

True, that's the main negative I can think of... day one server issues.

 

[Erad30]

I'm trying to figure out what kind of weirdo can't even deal with a one time internet patch. Are they still playing their 360s with the original "blades" interface? On the other hand, here I am making fun of them when they at least will be safe from Kinect streaming footage of them in their boxers straight to Obama's desk.

With the xbox 360(same for ps3), if a game required a newer firmware to run, they could install that firmware from the game disc. So you never really had to be online to get the newest firmware update. I wonder if Microsoft will have learned from the Wii U's day 1 patch by staggering the update so it doesn't overload the servers on launch day...

True, that's the main negative I can think of... day one server issues.

Don't worry, they now have a million billion servers to go with their 5 million transistors, nothing can possibly go wrong...

 

[Monsta Mack]

I'm trying to figure out what kind of weirdo can't even deal with a one time internet patch. Are they still playing their 360s with the original "blades" interface? On the other hand, here I am making fun of them when they at least will be safe from Kinect streaming footage of them in their boxers straight to Obama's desk.

With the xbox 360(same for ps3), if a game required a newer firmware to run, they could install that firmware from the game disc. So you never really had to be online to get the newest firmware update. I wonder if Microsoft will have learned from the Wii U's day 1 patch by staggering the update so it doesn't overload the servers on launch day...

True, that's the main negative I can think of... day one server issues.

Don't worry, they now have a million billion servers to go with their 5 million transistors, nothing can possibly go wrong...

These guys already forgot the power of the cloud? GHEESH!

 

[ShockandAww]

I'm still stuck on the "Family Sharing". Still giving MS the benefit of the doubt and saying that you would have been able to play it yourself along with another member of your "family" simultaneously why in the are/were people upset with people like me (anti DRM) for the choice that Microsoft made (to remove the family plan)?

Look, the PS3 ALREADY HAS THIS with the only limitations being 1) An account can only be active on two PS3s at a time, and 2) The game has to be digital for it to work. So PS3 has had this already for 6+ years. And are there any 24 hour checks or used game policies on the PS3? Nope.

So If you guys want this feature and MS wasn't bullshitting about it, what you have to do is throw a fit, get angry at MS (not at gamers like me) and tell them you want it back.

I think if you do this they will bring it back because 1) they would see people throwing a fit and 2) it would be some fantastic PR. I'm telling you if you stop blaming the anti DRM crowd and start blaming MS they will bring it back, and not with any 60 minute limitations. Believe.

Of course there is a decent possibility Sony will ditch game sharing with the PS4 (we don't know what their plan is for the PS4 regarding this) and in that case it'll be very tough to get it back. The least you could do is properly direct your anger and try though.

 

[Lost_In_Shadows]

I'll get one eventually. I want to wait and make sure it doesn't die over and over. If that happens I'll wait until that is fixed. The only exclusives I care about on it is KI and Gears Of War. I assume there will be another Gears. Last gen I bought all 3 consoles. I'll do the same this gen, but I can't really afford them all at once.

 

[lmz00]

I heard somewhere that the reason you have to download the day 1 patch to do anything with it is because that patch is what takes off all of the DRM related restrictions. I think the X1 will technically be "locked down" until you get that patch that un-s everything they did originally.

They can't patch their own system before it goes to retail? Or put the patch on the game discs?

Mehn... I'll wait for an unlocked X1 to come out a couple of years down the road.

Thanks for the answers!

So bypass day one patch (somehow), have ability to play w/o disc after installation, sell game immediately = profit?

In all seriousness, it's a little late for them to change the native firmware I think.

I'm trying to figure out what kind of weirdo can't even deal with a one time internet patch. Are they still playing their 360s with the original "blades" interface? On the other hand, here I am making fun of them when they at least will be safe from Kinect streaming footage of them in their boxers straight to Obama's desk.

Do all the people complaining about Kinect not have computers, phones, TVs, etc. with built-in cameras?

 

[htz]

Do all the people complaining about Kinect not have computers, phones, TVs, etc. with built-in cameras?

You can jailbreak an iphone and root an android device to monitor what the software is doing. Same goes for windows and mac. I don't think you can do that with an xbox one, at least not until someone breaks the security put in place, off the xbox one's OS. Which is not going to happen unless Microsoft wants their console to be another xbox 360 again with piracy.

 

[WV Matsui]

Do all the people complaining about Kinect not have computers, phones, TVs, etc. with built-in cameras?


You can jailbreak an iphone and root an android device to monitor what the software is doing. Same goes for windows and mac. I don't think you can do that with an xbox one, at least not until someone breaks the security put in place, off the xbox one's OS. Which is not going to happen unless Microsoft wants their console to be another xbox 360 again with piracy.

Yeah because a ton of people jailbreak their devices...

Do you have Facebook? Do you Tweet? Privacy is no more.

Saying this in general not directed to you htz

 

[htz]

Do all the people complaining about Kinect not have computers, phones, TVs, etc. with built-in cameras?

You can jailbreak an iphone and root an android device to monitor what the software is doing. Same goes for windows and mac. I don't think you can do that with an xbox one, at least not until someone breaks the security put in place, off the xbox one's OS. Which is not going to happen unless Microsoft wants their console to be another xbox 360 again with piracy.

Yeah because a ton of people jailbreak their devices...

Do you have Facebook? Do you Tweet? Privacy is no more.

No, I don't do neither of those. I do have a fake facebook account to get retailer promotions. Not saying everyone is going to jailbreak their devices but it would be nice if a hacker or researcher can take a look at the Xbox One OS when the time comes that an exploit is available. I'm more interested in how the Xbox One OS works than the privacy related stuff actually. I really have nothing to hide if the government or Microsoft decides to spy on me but I still expect privacy within my own home.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

Do all the people complaining about Kinect not have computers, phones, TVs, etc. with built-in cameras?

You can jailbreak an iphone and root an android device to monitor what the software is doing. Same goes for windows and mac. I don't think you can do that with an xbox one, at least not until someone breaks the security put in place, off the xbox one's OS. Which is not going to happen unless Microsoft wants their console to be another xbox 360 again with piracy.

so that makes it ok that people don't care about cams on that stuff but freak out when its on xbox one. most people don't know how to hack and what not to turn that stuff off lol.

people better stop using cellphones and internet if they are so parnoid gov is watching everything you do

 

[Blaster man]

Do all the people complaining about Kinect not have computers, phones, TVs, etc. with built-in cameras?

You can jailbreak an iphone and root an android device to monitor what the software is doing. Same goes for windows and mac. I don't think you can do that with an xbox one, at least not until someone breaks the security put in place, off the xbox one's OS. Which is not going to happen unless Microsoft wants their console to be another xbox 360 again with piracy.

Yeah because a ton of people jailbreak their devices...

Do you have Facebook? Do you Tweet? Privacy is no more.

Saying this in general not directed to you htz

People can make privacy decisions on a case by case basis. To say that a cell phone is just like Kinect is complete hyperbole. A cell phone provides the useful service of actual phone and Internet service anywhere in exchange for a loss of privacy. A Kinect provides the ability to say "Xbox On" in exchange for the loss of privacy.

 

[esquire]

https://twitter.com/notwen/status/348092374842474497

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/347911202057379840

Surprised no one posted it. So, do we believe the anon. pastebin or two different executives?

Completely agree with the article as well, as I've said before. Clear choice was taken away, and we've hit a road with no progress, no innovation, virtually nothing new. While the X1 still has a few of its bell's and whistle's (TV Switching, Snap, etc) it also lost more then a few.

Oh well, done with the DRM discussion. Some of us are fine with it, and dont have little tinfoil hats on. Other's arent. To each their own. Neither side is going to convince the other, and it's obvious those who are against DRM won't concede any points, so the discussion should just stop in my opinion. You cant have a debate when one side wont budge... which is odd since it echo's what's going on in the US right now

Okay, then if what they say is true, why did they have to take it away from digital downloads? Something simply does not add up. Either they are lying, or they are simply being childish an taking their ball and going home.

There is a third option that no one is considering: That developers and publishers were against the family plan and made Microsoft axe it. Realistically, how can anyone sit there and argue that used game sales cause developers and publishers to lose money when you are going to allow less than 10% of your user base share a full-fledged retail release of a game with the other 90%+ of your customers?

At the end of the day, they never came out and fully explained this great and wonderful family plan that was supposed to allow 11 people to share 1 game. If this purported plan was everything you guys thought it would be, then Microsoft did a poor job of selling it. I tend to err on the side of caution.

Bottom line is we will probably never know as Microsoft has nothing to gain by telling us the real story at this point. If it was only a 1 hour demo, it would probably only put more fuel on the fire that they were trying to extinguish the other day when they axed their DRM plans.

 

[htz]

People can make privacy decisions on a case by case basis. To say that a cell phone is just like Kinect is complete hyperbole. A cell phone provides the useful service of actual phone and Internet service anywhere in exchange for a loss of privacy. A Kinect provides the ability to say "Xbox On" in exchange for the loss of privacy.

I'm not even sure if the Kinect 2.0 can be compared to a camera on a mobile device or computer. The thing can do much more than a regular camera...

• it can see in the dark
• recognize your voice
• lock on to your voice even with loud background noise
• recognize your face to sign you in
• being able to tell how many people in a room
• 1080p wide angle time of flight camera to measure distance/depth
• processes 2 gigabits of data per second to read its environment
• 60% wider field of vision that can detect a user up to 3 feet from the sensor
• It can also detect a player's heart rate
• facial expression
• 25 individual joints (even thumbs) and the precise rotation of such joints
• the weight put on each limb
• the speed of your movements
• track gestures performed with a standard controller.

Yeah sounds like a camera on steroids.

There is a third option that no one is considering: That developers and publishers were against the family plan and made Microsoft axe it. Realistically, how can anyone sit there and argue that used game sales cause developers and publishers to lose money when you are going to allow less than 10% of your user base share a full-fledged retail release of a game with the other 90%+ of your customers?

Most used games aren't even bought until they drop to the $30 or below range which can take more than a month. The family share plan would had even eliminated that wait time and ate into new game sales immediately day 1.

 

[Blaster man]

The good thing is that X1 can be played offline which helps a lot with Kinect. It still doesn't make sense that you can't unplug it though.

 

[htz]

The good thing is that X1 can be played offline which helps a lot with Kinect. It still doesn't make sense that you can't unplug it though.

I wonder what happens if the kinect malfunctions(it even has a vent for heat to escape now)... It is essentially like the Wii U tablet, a required accessory to use the console. Makes you wonder how much a Kinect 2.0, cost to replace.

 

[Dr.Zoidberg]

This board is starting to clear up and look like a real message board without all the hate, I am diggin it.

 

[Ashane]

At the end of the day, they never came out and fully explained this great and wonderful family plan that was supposed to allow 11 people to share 1 game. If this purported plan was everything you guys thought it would be, then Microsoft did a poor job of selling it. I tend to err on the side of caution.

Bottom line is we will probably never know as Microsoft has nothing to gain by telling us the real story at this point. If it was only a 1 hour demo, it would probably only put more fuel on the fire that they were trying to extinguish the other day when they axed their DRM plans.

With the way MS explained the messaging for the entire console....

Does it really surprise you that they did a poor job of selling it? They did a poor job of selling *everything* about the console.

I know that seems to be the #1 argument against it, that if it was so great MS should have been shouting at the roof tops, but with the way they handled the initial pre-release (and are still handling it), it's painfully obvious they've got issues in the PR department.

They should have been shouting about it, about a push to reduce digital games initial cost, about preloading digital games so they are ready day 1, about special incentives to purchase digital games... basically pushing the shit out of why this is good for Gamers. They did absolutely none of that.

 

[thenutman69321]

I'm trying to figure out what kind of weirdo can't even deal with a one time internet patch. Are they still playing their 360s with the original "blades" interface? On the other hand, here I am making fun of them when they at least will be safe from Kinect streaming footage of them in their boxers straight to Obama's desk.

Do all the people complaining about Kinect not have computers, phones, TVs, etc. with built-in cameras?

My phone is always in my pocket or staring straight up at the ceiling so there's no privacy issue there and I've never heard of others accessing a live feed of someone's phone camera, doesn't mean it doesn't happen, I've just never heard of it. Only other thing I own with a built in camera is one of my computers and I keep a piece of tape over it and I would do the same thing if I had other devices with built in cameras and I will do the same thing with this new Kinect. I'm not normally the tin foil hat type but built in cameras get hacked all the time, there are whole forums dedicated to sharing pictures and videos of people who's camera are being accessed by others.

 

[io]

i think x1 will be fine with the 500 doller price point also if you look at all you get with it the price tag is not that high. Yes most people don't want kinect but it's a good value. If you think about it in the end the ps4 is close to 500 dollers at launch also if you want to play online games and don't already have ps + that adds 50 bucks to the 400 so after tax your close to 500. i still think we will see a way less price sku for x1 that will require a month sub to xbox live.

OK, since no one else dealt with this I'll take it. Are you serious Timbo!? The X1 is $100 more than the PS4 no matter how you look at it. It may not matter to a lot of CAGs, but to the average Joe around the holidays that will be a big issue.

So according to you the PS4 is really $500 because you have to add PS+ and with tax (WTF, is the X1 tax-free?) that makes it the same $500 as the X1. Seriously!? Um, maybe you forgot about a thing called Xbox Live Gold which will be required for more features on the X1 (Netflix, etc, as well as possibly some of the TV stuff, who knows) than those for which PS+ is required on the PS4.

Applying your same logic evenly and fairly to both systems, the PS4 is $400 + $50 + (let's assume 8% sales tax) = $486. But the X1 is $500 + $60 + tax = $605. When you factor in $10 more for Gold and the sales tax, the difference is actually more than $100. Lest you forget, when you pay more for something (like the X1), you pay more tax as well

I mean, seriously...

Now I do think the subscription service model with a cheaper base price might help them offset that because people don't seem to mind paying way more over the long run with monthly fees than they would up front.

There is a third option that no one is considering: That developers and publishers were against the family plan and made Microsoft axe it. Realistically, how can anyone sit there and argue that used game sales cause developers and publishers to lose money when you are going to allow less than 10% of your user base share a full-fledged retail release of a game with the other 90%+ of your customers?

Most used games aren't even bought until they drop to the $30 or below range which can take more than a month. The family share plan would had even eliminated that wait time and ate into new game sales immediately day 1.

Bingo - and it would also cannibalize "platinum hits" types of games (ie, cheaper new titles that a new X1 owner might pick up down the line) because of the rampant gamesharing sites that would crop up to "lend" or "lease" large, diverse libraries (where the one-at-a-time player would not be nearly as much of an issue as with a day one release title).

 

[htz]

i think x1 will be fine with the 500 doller price point also if you look at all you get with it the price tag is not that high. Yes most people don't want kinect but it's a good value. If you think about it in the end the ps4 is close to 500 dollers at launch also if you want to play online games and don't already have ps + that adds 50 bucks to the 400 so after tax your close to 500. i still think we will see a way less price sku for x1 that will require a month sub to xbox live.

OK, since no one else dealt with this I'll take it.

I can't believe you went through all of that to explain to us timbo logic is flawed. It was ignored for a reason. :lol:

 

[Ashane]

I took his post to mean that since if you were wanting MP, you had to be sub'ed to XLive, and not PS+..... that the majority already had a XLive sub, so the PS+ would be a added cost.

However, he failed to bring in that most had a PS+ sub for the games anyway, so the cost benefit probably woudnt be there honestly....

I think it's a wash in that regard.

 

[io]

I took his post to mean that since if you were wanting MP, you had to be sub'ed to XLive, and not PS+..... that the majority already had a XLive sub, so the PS+ would be a added cost.

However, he failed to bring in that most had a PS+ sub for the games anyway, so the cost benefit probably woudnt be there honestly....

I think it's a wash in that regard.

Well, if he meant that it is even worse. I assume most CAGs have both and the argument he was making was for average Joe or soccer mom who is comparing the two in the store and deciding which to get for their family. In that case they are probably going to be upsold by the retailer on either Gold or PS+ (plus an extra controller, a few games, and a service plan) so it is a wash there as well.

And no scenario I can think of excuses him from applying tax to the PS4 purchase but not the X1 purchase. Or maybe he meant people would drive over to where I live (where there is no sales tax) to buy X1's, but they wouldn't be willing to do that for the PS4.

The only legit argument on the pricing comparisons is to say the PS4 is $460 with the new Eye camera, which then makes it equivalent in capability to the X1. But again, to the masses that is not an issue because they probably won't even know that exists and all they will see is $500 for one and $400 for the other. This is all assuming both are readily available before Christmas. That remains to be seen though both seem to have massive amounts of preorders available (both launch day systems are still available at Amazon though the PS4 is only via game bundles). They are taking way many more preorders than they did for the PS3 and Wii - those things were only available to preorder for mere hours. We're going on weeks now with the PS4 and X1. To me, that points to less of a shortage after launch as well. I think both Sony and MS are producing far more of these than for any previous console launch.

 

[thamaster24]

Do all the people complaining about Kinect not have computers, phones, TVs, etc. with built-in cameras?

This doesn't directly relate to what you are saying but the Kinect should be optional. Now that they're getting rid of the DRM and online checks, that extra $100, like what io said above, is really going to hurt them. I know they're trying to get developers to use it in more games but I have the Kinect for the 360 and the only thing I use it for is workout games (which I hardly use anyway). And people can have different preferences/opinions, but I just don't like the idea of shouting commands when I'm in a room by myself to a TV. I'm sure with kids it's a different experience.

Its certainly an impressive device that they have put a ton of time and effort into, but if there are no games that make you want to use it constantly, IMO it's just not worth the extra dough.

 

[ShockandAww]

Do all the people complaining about Kinect not have computers, phones, TVs, etc. with built-in cameras?

Yep I have all that and others basically already covered it. My phone isn't nearly the issue a kinect in the living room is, I tape my laptop and so on. One thing I'll add is that there is simply no good reason for them to require it. I don't want this, they're trying to force it regardless which makes me question the motives, and so I'll say no thanks. Change it to optional use and I'll buy it. They can still include it for $500 (which is a bad move) if they want but don't make me connect it if I don't want to.

Edit: And just to be clear, this is my only issue with the Kinect. I don't care if it's an extra $100 because I'd be buying one separately anyway just like I did for the Xbox. Also I'm interested in the tech itself and what can be done with it game-wise. So I do want one, but I do not want it until I feel like I can actually enjoy it and not worry about privacy.

 

[htz]

I wonder if Microsoft/Sony will consider implementing voice command into games with a gaming/bluetooth headset. Would be a nice way to do voice command featured games without something like a Kinect to increase the cost and no need to yell across the room.

 

[billymayshere]

The new kinect is supposed to be able to sift through the noise of the game and pick up your voice so that you dont have to yell at it. 

But thats a feature I am going to have to see to believe. 

 

[esquire]

Do all the people complaining about Kinect not have computers, phones, TVs, etc. with built-in cameras?

This doesn't directly relate to what you are saying but the Kinect should be optional. Now that they're getting rid of the DRM and online checks, that extra $100, like what io said above, is really going to hurt them. I know they're trying to get developers to use it in more games but I have the Kinect for the 360 and the only thing I use it for is workout games (which I hardly use anyway). And people can have different preferences/opinions, but I just don't like the idea of shouting commands when I'm in a room by myself to a TV. I'm sure with kids it's a different experience.

Its certainly an impressive device that they have put a ton of time and effort into, but if there are no games that make you want to use it constantly, IMO it's just not worth the extra dough.

It definitely should be optional, and they should not force developers to incorporate it into games. I can see certain games using it like the fitness games, dance games, kids games, etc. I just don't want to be forced to use it. Remember Sony and Factor 5's debacle of the mandatory Sixaxis control scheme in Lair?

 

[WV Matsui]

I'm really intrigued by the new kinect. Not necessarily the motion tracking but more for the voice etc. I love bouncing around my Xbox with my voice. Pausing Netflix and all of the other great things you can do. Especially all of the new things they talked about including switching in and out of games and TV. Hell I even like the feature of just saying Xbox on.

Hopefully we will learn more about kinect as it gets closer.

Curious at what games folks are thinking about picking up at launch?

 

[blueweltall]

i think x1 will be fine with the 500 doller price point also if you look at all you get with it the price tag is not that high. Yes most people don't want kinect but it's a good value. If you think about it in the end the ps4 is close to 500 dollers at launch also if you want to play online games and don't already have ps + that adds 50 bucks to the 400 so after tax your close to 500. i still think we will see a way less price sku for x1 that will require a month sub to xbox live.

OK, since no one else dealt with this I'll take it.

I can't believe you went through all of that to explain to us timbo logic is flawed. It was ignored for a reason. :lol:

I saw that too. I was going to comment on it but I stopped myself at the last minute. It's a trap!

 

[TimboSliceGB]

The good thing is that X1 can be played offline which helps a lot with Kinect. It still doesn't make sense that you can't unplug it though.

I wonder what happens if the kinect malfunctions(it even has a vent for heat to escape now)... It is essentially like the Wii U tablet, a required accessory to use the console. Makes you wonder how much a Kinect 2.0, cost to replace.

i learned my lession from 360 im buying the longest protection plan they have lol

At the end of the day, they never came out and fully explained this great and wonderful family plan that was supposed to allow 11 people to share 1 game. If this purported plan was everything you guys thought it would be, then Microsoft did a poor job of selling it. I tend to err on the side of caution.

Bottom line is we will probably never know as Microsoft has nothing to gain by telling us the real story at this point. If it was only a 1 hour demo, it would probably only put more fuel on the fire that they were trying to extinguish the other day when they axed their DRM plans.

With the way MS explained the messaging for the entire console....

Does it really surprise you that they did a poor job of selling it? They did a poor job of selling *everything* about the console.

I know that seems to be the #1 argument against it, that if it was so great MS should have been shouting at the roof tops, but with the way they handled the initial pre-release (and are still handling it), it's painfully obvious they've got issues in the PR department.

They should have been shouting about it, about a push to reduce digital games initial cost, about preloading digital games so they are ready day 1, about special incentives to purchase digital games... basically pushing the shit out of why this is good for Gamers. They did absolutely none of that.

ms has never been a company that sells a product well.

reason why i talked about ps plus because if you look at wording on amazon and other pre order websites they are making it sound like the day one edition comes with a year of live. Plus just not talking about people on this website but alot of people i know don't have ps plus and not happy about the pay to play online.

 

[aptanor]

It never says anywhere that the XBone day one edition comes with a free year of live. You can get a year of live that comes in a stupid "day one" steelbook if you get it day one.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

It never says anywhere that the XBone comes with a free year of live. You can get a year of live that comes in a stupid steelbook if you get it day one.

the thing that is confusing is that they show the image of that box on some site in system info. im set for live for like 3 years so don't affect me

i think x1 will be fine with the 500 doller price point also if you look at all you get with it the price tag is not that high. Yes most people don't want kinect but it's a good value. If you think about it in the end the ps4 is close to 500 dollers at launch also if you want to play online games and don't already have ps + that adds 50 bucks to the 400 so after tax your close to 500. i still think we will see a way less price sku for x1 that will require a month sub to xbox live.

OK, since no one else dealt with this I'll take it. Are you serious Timbo!? The X1 is $100 more than the PS4 no matter how you look at it. It may not matter to a lot of CAGs, but to the average Joe around the holidays that will be a big issue.

So according to you the PS4 is really $500 because you have to add PS+ and with tax (WTF, is the X1 tax-free?) that makes it the same $500 as the X1. Seriously!? Um, maybe you forgot about a thing called Xbox Live Gold which will be required for more features on the X1 (Netflix, etc, as well as possibly some of the TV stuff, who knows) than those for which PS+ is required on the PS4.

Applying your same logic evenly and fairly to both systems, the PS4 is $400 + $50 + (let's assume 8% sales tax) = $486. But the X1 is $500 + $60 + tax = $605. When you factor in $10 more for Gold and the sales tax, the difference is actually more than $100. Lest you forget, when you pay more for something (like the X1), you pay more tax as well

I mean, seriously...

Now I do think the subscription service model with a cheaper base price might help them offset that because people don't seem to mind paying way more over the long run with monthly fees than they would up front.

lets do a example for a tablet. People buy their kids a 500-600 doller ipod for xmas when you can get a non apple product that does the same thing for like 300-400 dollers cheaper. The people that buy systems at launch are mostly hard core gamers or hard core fanboys. i think with this drm thing gone both these system will be neck and neck thsi holliday season.


might i add alot of states you don't pay tax on amazon till you report it on your taxes in spring

this day and age people buy product by name brand mostly and price for avg people is not a factor