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PlayStation 4 Thread. Greatness Awaits.


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#691 kill3r7

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:40 PM

This was thoroughly discussed in the PSN thread. True, they want you to rebuy the games. However, don't forget about the architecture issue, the games won't just "transfer". You are hoping for them to give the games to you for free when they are done porting it to the PS4. Which is a reasonable but entitled request at the same time.


How is that an entitled request? If they (Sony, M$ etc) expect us to invest in digital content (PSN/XBLA games) then they should not require us to rebuy the "same" content on next gen consoles. Just to be clear I'm not talking about PS3 digital games. I'm strictly talking about PSN/XBLA titles. Also, I am fully aware of PS3's architectural shortcomings hence why I never thought that BC was possible for PS3 games. However, I figured that Sony would transfer the PSN content we purchased to the PS4.
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#692 n8rockerasu

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:44 PM

Used games are accepted, said Sony, check the PsN thread for link to source.


Oh really? I just read an article this morning that strongly speculated that they were going to use the Steam model.

http://www.techradar...features-937822

Glad it's already "old news" if true. I still think both Sony and Microsoft will have an uphill battle as it is. They would be crazy to alienate that many people.

#693 thrinn

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:51 PM

Just to be clear I'm not talking about PS3 digital games. I'm strictly talking about PSN/XBLA titles. Also, I am fully aware of PS3's architectural shortcomings hence why I never thought that BC was possible for PS3 games. However, I figured that Sony would transfer the PSN content we purchased to the PS4.


Both PS3 disc-based games and PSN games utilize the same convoluted processor architecture. Why would porting PS3 or PSN games be different?

#694 Sir_Fragalot

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:51 PM

Oh really? I just read an article this morning that strongly speculated that they were going to use the Steam model.

http://www.techradar...features-937822

Glad it's already "old news" if true. I still think both Sony and Microsoft will have an uphill battle as it is. They would be crazy to alienate that many people.

If they go that route they might as well say goodbye. It's not that people wont buy digital games, it's people wont buy digital games for $60. Steam works because you can buy games for $2.50- $5, and these are full retail games. Unless Sony can go aggressive as Steam, no one would buy them except for the die hard people.
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#695 Woocls

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:51 PM

Oh really? I just read an article this morning that strongly speculated that they were going to use the Steam model.

http://www.techradar...features-937822

Glad it's already "old news" if true. I still think both Sony and Microsoft will have an uphill battle as it is. They would be crazy to alienate that many people.

Yep, don't remember the link. At this stage I'd ignore all the speculation because it's not going to do anything but get people worked up. Sony should keep the info rolling between now and launch. So, I'd just focus on first hand info.

#696 tylerh1701

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:54 PM

I don't know anything about the internal specs of the 360 or PS3. But is it likely that backwards compatibility for 360 and XBLA games will be present on the new Xbox?

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#697 Woocls

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:56 PM

Both PS3 disc-based games and PSN games utilize the same convoluted processor architecture. Why would porting PS3 or PSN games be different?

This^ It has nothing to do with the disc. Remember, the reader is also blu-ray. It'd be like plugging a blu-ray player into your PC and expecting it to just play PS3 games. It doesn't work that way.

I don't know anything about the internal specs of the 360 or PS3. But is it likely that backwards compatibility for 360 and XBLA games will be present on the new Xbox?

I would expect so. It all depends on how similar the 2 systems are. If Microsoft makes a crazy leap like sony did this gen then no. But I don't see anyone making that mistake again.

#698 mykevermin

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

All this "what will work/what won't work" is just too bloody confusing. Sony needs to clear that noise up with a quickness, stop assuming people will automatically move over to a new system. Reducing/eliminating incentives to move over will stall adoption, which will stall software sales, which will stall further software development.

Maybe they should take a look at the Vita's trajectory if they need evidence of what I'm saying.
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#699 Monsta Mack

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:04 PM

PSN purchases will not carry over to the PS4.

Not sure if this has been posted but this just adds salt to the no BC wound.


Wow...

#700 n8rockerasu

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:05 PM

This was thoroughly discussed in the PSN thread. True, they want you to rebuy the games. However, don't forget about the architecture issue, the games won't just "transfer". You are hoping for them to give the games to you for free when they are done porting it to the PS4. Which is a reasonable but entitled request at the same time.


This^ It has nothing to do with the disc. Remember, the reader is also blu-ray. It'd be like plugging a blu-ray player into your PC and expecting it to just play PS3 games. It doesn't work that way.


Even if this is true...it still doesn't mean it's not a poor business model. Your customers aren't going to give a crap about the technological limitations. What they're going to see is that they just bought the same game (maybe even months before), and have no reason to buy it again. This is basically the reason people have been slow to move from DVD to Blu-Ray...and why the WiiU hasn't been selling as well as the Wii. People are happy with what they've got. Trying to convince them that the same products are better just because they're on a new format isn't going to drive sales.

You could make the argument that it's unreasonable to expect previous console purchases to carry forward (ie. Nintendo games weren't playable on Super Nintendo), but I'd also make the argument that people invested A LOT more money this past generation than in any generation prior. So, if those purchases aren't supported by the next system, what that IS going to cause is for people to be much slower in moving on (especially when you're talking about digital content that has no resale value). Finding a way to support these purchases would be a great way for Sony/Microsoft to guide people toward their new systems. If they can't do that, they better be happy sitting on their hands while people are slow to adopt these new consoles.

#701 KillerRamen

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:07 PM

I don't know anything about the internal specs of the 360 or PS3. But is it likely that backwards compatibility for 360 and XBLA games will be present on the new Xbox?


The Xbox used a x86 Processor, the Xbox 360 used a PowerPC Processor and the 3rd Xbox is most likely to use a x64 Processor... So probably not, but we'll just have to wait and see.
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#702 Woocls

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:10 PM

Even if this is true...it still doesn't mean it's not a poor business model. Your customers aren't going to give a crap about the technological limitations. What they're going to see is that they just bought the same game (maybe even months before), and have no reason to buy it again. This is basically the reason people have been slow to move from DVD to Blu-Ray...and why the WiiU hasn't been selling as well as the Wii. People are happy with what they've got. Trying to convince them that the same products are better just because they're on a new format isn't going to drive sales.

You could make the argument that it's unreasonable to expect previous console purchases to carry forward (ie. Nintendo games weren't playable on Super Nintendo), but I'd also make the argument that people invested A LOT more money this past generation than in any generation prior. So, if those purchases aren't supported by the next system, what that IS going to cause is for people to be much slower in moving on (especially when you're talking about digital content that has no resale value). Finding a way to support these purchases would be a great way for Sony/Microsoft to guide people toward their new systems. If they can't do that, they better be happy sitting on their hands while people are slow to adopt these new consoles.

Ok, if you want to play PS3 games why the HELL are you buying a PS4? Shouldn't you just keep playing on your PS3? It's not like having a PS4 makes your PS3 magically disappear... So you'd rather pay for another PS3 inside of your PS4 just so you can play games you can already play?!

#703 thrinn

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:10 PM

You could make the argument that it's unreasonable to expect previous console purchases to carry forward (ie. Nintendo games weren't playable on Super Nintendo), but I'd also make the argument that people invested A LOT more money this past generation than in any generation prior. So, if those purchases aren't supported by the next system, what that IS going to cause is for people to be much slower in moving on (especially when you're talking about digital content that has no resale value). Finding a way to support these purchases would be a great way for Sony/Microsoft to guide people toward their new systems. If they can't do that, they better be happy sitting on their hands while people are slow to adopt these new consoles.


The thing is that these companies don't want to be selling new platforms at cost or at a loss if people are going to buy them to play games they already own. They want to be selling you new content.

#704 Salamando3000

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:17 PM

Thinking about BC, they had three real options: 1) Attach a cell processor for no other reason than BC, and increase the cost of a PS4 by something like $100. 2) Don't give a care about hardware related BC, and try to develop a good software-related solution. 3) Keep the cell processor for the entire system, even though it's been getting in the way of developers trying to make games.

If the games coming out for PS4 are either so bad or the good ones so far between that I really want to play PS3 games, that's far worse than the no-BC problem.


#705 Sir_Fragalot

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:25 PM

The Xbox used a x86 Processor, the Xbox 360 used a PowerPC Processor and the 3rd Xbox is most likely to use a x64 Processor... So probably not, but we'll just have to wait and see.

The real problem for Microsoft is what happens in 4-5 years when you can't get a 360 anymore and your console has a RROD :lol:. Sony might have this problem too, but I think it will be less of an issue.
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#706 Woocls

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

If the games coming out for PS4 are either so bad or the good ones so far between that I really want to play PS3 games, that's far worse than the no-BC problem.

Exactly! It's like looking at the vita and saying why can't you play UMDs? If you wanted a UMD player buy a PSP... if you want new content pick up the Vita. Sure as a consumer it sucks that I can't get everything I want in one nice package but that's just the way it goes. If Sony can't give me new content that worth playing then they have bigger issues than even the used games debate..

#707 n8rockerasu

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

Ok, if you want to play PS3 games why the HELL are you buying a PS4? Shouldn't you just keep playing on your PS3? It's not like having a PS4 makes your PS3 magically disappear... So you'd rather pay for another PS3 inside of your PS4 just so you can play games you can already play?!


If you're referring to games purchased on PSN as "PS3 Games", then it's just a way for people to move forward at the pace that Sony feels is necessary without people feeling like they've just thrown a bunch of money down the drain on very recent purchases. I'm not talking about the hardcore, mom's basement, 16 hours a day gamer.

I'm talking about adults who have other things to spend their money on. Yes, they're "old games". Wowee. I'm not even saying Sony NEEDS to support them. Just don't be shocked when we're not ready to move at your pace and buy "the next greatest thing" that maybe you'll decide to stop supporting in 5 years the next go round.

The thing is that these companies don't want to be selling new platforms at cost or at a loss if people are going to buy them to play games they already own. They want to be selling you new content.


I get that. But mykevermin hit the same point I did. You're going to alienate people and it's going to stunt the growth of the new system. People are laughing at Nintendo because the WiiU has had a rough go of it. But I can almost guarantee both Microsoft and Sony will face the exact same thing. This isn't like moving from the PS2 or Xbox. There is an incredibly expansive online structure now with thousands of digital games, game add-ons, and freaking clothes for your virtual self. People aren't just going to chuck that aside and gleefully start tossing their money down the next rabbit hole.

The "game" has changed very much in the past 7-8 years. I don't think the promise of new software and pretty graphics is going to be enough to convince people to upgrade anymore. The only hope is that these new systems won't cost developers a fortune to make games for...as I think that really took a toll this last generation. Otherwise, we'll probably see more and more developers moving to the digital format....which Sony and Microsoft won't support the following generation.

#708 Woocls

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:31 PM

The real problem for Microsoft is what happens in 4-5 years when you can't get a 360 anymore and your console has a RROD :lol:. Sony might have this problem too, but I think it will be less of an issue.

RRoD isn't there concern since all of those systems are out (or should be out soon) of warranty. And the slims don't have the failure rate that the old ones did. Besides... it's no different than picking up any old system (except ps2... they kept making those for way longer than I thought they should.)

#709 Monsta Mack

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:32 PM

The real problem for Microsoft is what happens in 4-5 years when you can't get a 360 anymore and your console has a RROD :lol:. Sony might have this problem too, but I think it will be less of an issue.


That and how long content stays on the market place. When they shut off access to XBox Live for the original XBox everything was gone with no way to re-download.

Some files on the 360 are not transferable as well. I know things like Ninja Gaiden 2 saves and DLC and some other content.

Stuff like this just makes me want to be a PC gamer more and more and just buy consoles for exclusive titles.

#710 Woocls

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:36 PM

If you're referring to games purchased on PSN as "PS3 Games", then it's just a way for people to move forward at the pace that Sony feels is necessary without people feeling like they've just thrown a bunch of money down the drain on very recent purchases. I'm not talking about the hardcore, mom's basement, 16 hours a day gamer.

I'm talking about adults who have other things to spend their money on. Yes, they're "old games". Wowee. I'm not even saying Sony NEEDS to support them. Just don't be shocked when we're not ready to move at your pace and buy "the next greatest thing" that maybe you'll decide to stop supporting in 5 years the next go round.



I get that. But mykevermin hit the same point I did. You're going to alienate people and it's going to stunt the growth of the new system. People are laughing at Nintendo because the WiiU has had a rough go of it. But I can almost guarantee both Microsoft and Sony will face the exact same thing. This isn't like moving from the PS2 or Xbox. There is an incredibly expansive online structure now with thousands of digital games, game add-ons, and freaking clothes for your virtual self. People aren't just going to chuck that aside and gleefully start tossing their money down the next rabbit hole.

The "game" has changed very much in the past 7-8 years. I don't think the promise of new software and pretty graphics is going to be enough to convince people to upgrade anymore. The only hope is that these new systems won't cost developers a fortune to make games for...as I think that really took a toll this last generation. Otherwise, we'll probably see more and more developers moving to the digital format....which Sony and Microsoft won't support the following generation.

If you have other things to spend your money on I'll ask my question again... Why are you buying a PS4 and then bitching about it?! I assume you already have a PS3 since you're buying digital content for it. Just cause the next best greatest thing comes out doesn't mean you have to jump on it and expect to just toss out your old system. If you're buying a PS4 to play old games you can already play you're doing it wrong... Plus, people have been complaining about the move to digital forever now. Because you only have access to the content while it's supported. No reason to act like this wasn't a very real possibility from the start.

#711 thrinn

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:36 PM

People are laughing at Nintendo because the WiiU has had a rough go of it. But I can almost guarantee both Microsoft and Sony will face the exact same thing.

I'm very worried that Sony & MS could run into the same lukewarm reception that the Wii U is currently enduring. The fact that the Wii U offers backwards compatibility for Wii titles hasn't seemed to have helped their sales though.

#712 Woocls

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:41 PM

I'm very worried that Sony & MS could run into the same lukewarm reception that the Wii U is currently enduring. The fact that the Wii U offers backwards compatibility for Wii titles hasn't seemed to have helped their sales though.

The problem the Wii-U had (and still has) is a lack of publisher support. There's very few reasons to buy one right now. And as long as people aren't buying it there's very few reasons to put your game on it. It's a vicious cycle that could kill the future of gaming if it happens to both sony and MS. We need at least one of the big 3 to come out swinging for the fence. My bet is on MS. They LOVE throwing money at problems which could actually work this time.

#713 kill3r7

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:42 PM

Ok, if you want to play PS3 games why the HELL are you buying a PS4? Shouldn't you just keep playing on your PS3? It's not like having a PS4 makes your PS3 magically disappear... So you'd rather pay for another PS3 inside of your PS4 just so you can play games you can already play?!


As has been stated over and over again in this thread. People usually like to get rid of their old consoles. Personally I hate a cluttered entertainment center so I will only have the PS4 and NextBox. Thus, why should I have to buy a game such PvZ or Journey for the PS4 if I already own it for the PS3? The same goes for the NextBox. I don't think it's unreasonable for consumers to want/expect their digital content to transfer over. If you buy a new iPad or an Android based tablet your old digital content still works on the new device. The same principle applies to Steam games. I already paid for it once in digital format.

IMO this is not a customer friendly policy. Just my 2 cents.
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#714 n8rockerasu

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:45 PM

If you have other things to spend your money on I'll ask my question again... Why are you buying a PS4 and then bitching about it?! I assume you already have a PS3 since you're buying digital content for it. Just cause the next best greatest thing comes out doesn't mean you have to jump on it and expect to just toss out your old system. If you're buying a PS4 to play old games you can already play you're doing it wrong... Plus, people have been complaining about the move to digital forever now. Because you only have access to the content while it's supported. No reason to act like this wasn't a very real possibility from the start.


:wall: Are you dense? I just got done explaining that it's going to cause people to be slower to buy a PS4. Due to the wealth of content that was available for the PS3, my system is loaded up with games and features (some of which I haven't played all the way through/explored fully), that I don't feel compelled to buy a PS4 any time soon...ESPECIALLY if it doesn't suppport those items I'm not done with yet. So, I'm not buying one, numbnuts. You're basically making the argument that that is what Sony is after here...discouraging people from buying the PS4. Wow! What an ingenious marketing tactic.

#715 n8rockerasu

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:50 PM

The fact that the Wii U offers backwards compatibility for Wii titles hasn't seemed to have helped their sales though.


That's definitely a valid point. I would argue that the Wii's original customer base has a lot to do with that though. That thing sold like crazy to people who don't ever buy gaming systems. So, now...7 years later, those people are STILL playing Wii Bowling (I know several of them), and have no interest in the Wii U. Nintendo could have given people a free puppy with the Wii U and it still wouldn't have sold as well.

#716 Woocls

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:54 PM

:wall: Are you dense? I just got done explaining that it's going to cause people to be slower to buy a PS4. Due to the wealth of content that was available for the PS3, my system is loaded up with games and features (some of which I haven't played all the way through/explored fully), that I don't feel compelled to buy a PS4 any time soon...ESPECIALLY if it doesn't suppport those items I'm not done with yet. So, I'm not buying one, numbnuts. You're basically making the argument that that is what Sony is after here...discouraging people from buying the PS4. Wow! What an ingenious marketing tactic.

Ok, then play your PS3/PSN games and wait on the PS4. Having BC isn't going to suddenly make buying a PS4 to play old games you can already play a better idea.... It'd be stupid to buy a PS4 unless you want to play PS4 games. That's my point.

#717 kill3r7

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:56 PM

Ok, then play your PS3/PSN games and wait on the PS4. Having BC isn't going to suddenly make buying a PS4 to play old games you can already play a better idea.... It'd be stupid to buy a PS4 unless you want to play PS4 games. That's my point.


No it's not. The two are not mutually exclusive. One can enjoy PS4 games while still playing their old PSN titles on their brand spanking new PS4.
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#718 Woocls

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:59 PM

No it's not. The two are not mutually exclusive. One can enjoy PS4 games while still playing their old PSN titles on their brand spanking new PS4.

And I'm saying I don't want to pay more for a "feature" I already have access to through my PS3. I thought this was CAG not "early adopters who like to throw away money" maybe I am in the minority on this one...

#719 n8rockerasu

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 06:04 PM

And I'm saying I don't want to pay more for a "feature" I already have access to through my PS3. I thought this was CAG not "early adopters who like to throw away money" maybe I am in the minority on this one...


If it's not "early adopters who like to throw away money", then why are you even talking about the PS4? That's basically all it's going to be for the next 2 years, lol. All my point was is that if Sony or Microsoft don't think that some kind of incentive is going to be needed to convince people to move on to the next consoles by this Christmas, they are both in for a rude awakening. What good is reducing cost by not having a "feature" if nobody buys your console for 2 years...by which point, you've dropped the price anyway?

#720 kill3r7

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 06:08 PM

And I'm saying I don't want to pay more for a "feature" I already have access to through my PS3. I thought this was CAG not "early adopters who like to throw away money" maybe I am in the minority on this one...


I think the digital content issue is a very big deal. Think about what happens a couple of years down the road when your PS3 HDD fails and you need to redownload your PSN games. Better yet, how about people who own so much content that it doesn't fit on their current HDD (more of a 360 issue). How do they get access to this content going forward? It seems to me that digital games lack the proper infrastructure to make them viable from the consumer perspective. Why should we as gamers have to pony up money for the same games over and over again? What's to stop the same thing from occurring with the PS5 and so on.
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