Accepting Paypal friends & family/gifting payments on CAG. (Updated 6/15/2016)
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thelonepig
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A standard Amazon Payments account doesn't have fees. Win!
iNFiNiTE HORiZON
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Ridiculous rule that people are going along with. People on trading sites have always gifted payment, I gift payment to people I know through facebook too if I'm buying something. Obviously if it's a completely new user, or someone you know nothing about - you want to be cautious. But otherwise you should try to trust people. And it's just always been common practice to gift money to avoid fees, we're selling / trading video games here... we don't need to line billionaires pockets more at our own expense. They make enough money off the shit I sell on eBay as is.
so do I still have to signup if I already have "paid" via Amazon Payments by signing into my normal Amazon.com account?
thelonepig
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That's a good question. Go to payments.amazon.com and try to log in.
I just found out that gifting money does not add any fees when there is money in the paypal balance. If the payment comes from a credit card, the guy gifting pays fees. I thought there was always a fee.
This kinda change my stance on the situation. If I trust the person, or if I receive first, I could gift.
This kinda change my stance on the situation. If I trust the person, or if I receive first, I could gift.
If you want gifted payments, use a different service like amazon payments. You agreed to Paypal's ToS when you signed up. You can either follow the rules to which you have agreed to follow, or use a different service.
Eternal Session
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How about doing as you want because you're not a sheep? Let's be honest, if you really care about a company's ToS, you pretty much aren't really human anymore. ToSs do whatever they can to strip you of your rights and give the company absolute control of you. Why hold it in high regard?
thelonepig
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When you say "let's be honest," I take it you don't really mean that? Let's say PayPal was a smaller company, just starting out and - oh for kicks - let's say one of your good friends was investing time and money into it. Would you still be here suggesting that everyone skirt the ToS and abuse the company?
Let's be honest; if you don't want to abide by the ToS, find an alternative and don't use the service. We have enough people that think it's cool to snub authority or make a statement against a corporation. Stand up and have some integrity.
If I agree to a ToS / EULA et cetera I abide by it as best as I can, as I have made an agreement and my word is my vow.
It's not being a sheep, it's being a man.
Because you make an account by agreeing to their terms, and therefore are supposed to follow them? Let's be honest, if you're gonna be whining about it, just send the cash by mail, yeah?
Don't blame me if your money gets stolen.
Eternal Session
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So what you guys are saying is, I've been a baaaaahhhhhh-d boy?
Nah, just a shitty person. But keep thinking you're some sort of special snowflake that goes against the corporate machine by gifting payments. I'm sure that makes you the next revolutionary.
You're free to gift all you want, but you would have no right to complain of you got scammed or banned. If that's alright with you, go ahead and do whatever the
you feel like, man.
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Eternal Session
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Oh, relax. That was just a joke. I simply couldn't resist. Don't worry. After what happened here with VideoGameCollector, I won't be gifting anybody anything on Paypal.Nah, just a shitty person. But keep thinking you're some sort of special snowflake that goes against the corporate machine by gifting payments. I'm sure that makes you the next revolutionary.
You're free to gift all you want, but you would have no right to complain of you got scammed or banned. If that's alright with you, go ahead and do whatever the
I searched the thread and am surprised that no one has mentioned google wallet as an alternative to Paypal as google wallet also has $0 in fees if you're using a bank account for the funding source. I have no idea if the person to person transfer has any sort of built in protections or not but unless the paypal transaction goes through ebay to begin with I feel there isn't much protection either way really. Just my opinion though as I have a few friends that swear nothing bad will ever happen as long as they use paypal. I've had my paypal and ebay accounts since 2001 and have been lucky with having no issues that weren't resolved.
thelonepig
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I've not tried Google Wallet; I'll have to look into it. Amazon Payments is another excellent no-fee alternative for the occasional purchase or sale.
I actually use Google wallet for payments and transfers between all of my friends. It's instantaneous and free, and transfers show up in my bank (WF) within a day generally. I haven't ever used Amazon payments to transfer money although I already had an amazon payments account setup from my MTurk activities. I applied/submitted the info for Amazon to add my bank account tonight though as another option for buying/selling on here.
This still seems to be an issue...
"Hey, I'm going to need to either refund you or you'll need to send another $1. You didn't send it via friends and family so I was charged a fee.
If I issue you a refund, you could always resend another payment for $18 via friends and family to save you that $1."
- enorris116
"Hey, I'm going to need to either refund you or you'll need to send another $1. You didn't send it via friends and family so I was charged a fee.
If I issue you a refund, you could always resend another payment for $18 via friends and family to save you that $1."
- enorris116
jputahraptor
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Wow, try saying that title 3 times fast.
dimebagdrl
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Would it be possible to amend the topic title to read
"Personal Paypal payments (friends and family) for purchases and payers paying Paypal fees prohibited."
Noticed a couple of posts today asking for Paypal F/F like its somehow not personal payments.
"Personal Paypal payments (friends and family) for purchases and payers paying Paypal fees prohibited."
Noticed a couple of posts today asking for Paypal F/F like its somehow not personal payments.
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thelonepig
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The last several CAGs that I've tried to purchase items from have either asked me to gift (F&F) or pay the fees. I've even had one CAG refund my payment and tell me to resend it as F&F. They simply don't care about CAG rules or PayPal TOS. It's just not practical to report every infraction to a mod or PayPal, I just take it as a loss to me and walk away. They'll find someone else to buy it.
Do the moderators/admins penalize people who require F&F? That would be a good first step if they don't already
Can you send me a PM with the CAG user ids?
Yes.
- Trade post removal. Warning sent.
- Temporary Trade Ban.
- Permanent Trade Ban.
The Dark Enforcer
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@Htz:
I've also seen people say in their tradelists that they "only accept Paypal F&F or you pay fees"
Could we possibly disallow the use of this kind of wording in tradelists as well?
Just wondering.
I've also seen people say in their tradelists that they "only accept Paypal F&F or you pay fees"
Could we possibly disallow the use of this kind of wording in tradelists as well?
Just wondering.
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Kind of "weasel words" for this sort of thing are "$xx.xx amount to me."
That is, as opposed to saying "This item is $40.00" (which would mean the buyer pays $40.00, and the seller gets that amount minus fees," the buyer is expected to pay an amount which results in the seller getting $40.00 - whether by doing Gift/Friends&Family, or by paying the fee on the amount.
Granted, the seller could just say the item is $41 (or whatever), and there wouldn't be anything inherently wrong with that.
But to list it as $40, with the expectation of getting $40, is to intend to work around the fees.
That is, as opposed to saying "This item is $40.00" (which would mean the buyer pays $40.00, and the seller gets that amount minus fees," the buyer is expected to pay an amount which results in the seller getting $40.00 - whether by doing Gift/Friends&Family, or by paying the fee on the amount.
Granted, the seller could just say the item is $41 (or whatever), and there wouldn't be anything inherently wrong with that.
But to list it as $40, with the expectation of getting $40, is to intend to work around the fees.
Untamed Sorrow
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God, I'd have to report the last 20 people I've bought from on here...I'm so used to it that it doesn't even phase me anymore, I just check their feedback before I pay...
I wonder if it would even be any better if people just added the 2.39% or whatever the fee is for the total intended cost or if people would still look at that price as if "asking to pay the fees" unless it's rounded up nicely. I just imagine people would secretly scorn once they see it's obvious they added in the total.
I only see this stopping if people get very long trade bans for doing this, but I can't imagine most people report it.
Stoic Person Eater
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Bump for relevance.
The new changes listed in the OP starting today should address some of these issues going forward.
CheapLikeAFox
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I think it's silly that people get upset about paying fees. Sellers should be allowed to take into account their costs when selling their items. It'd be like saying "you can't make a buyer pay shipping, you have to set a price and stay with it." And sellers just raise their prices accordingly to account for the fees so it's the same difference.
I'm glad F&F is finally officially allowed on digital purchases as a lot of asshole buyers were abusing this and sending regular PayPal on small purchases that were entirely eaten up by fees and then complaining afterwards when the sellers were understandably upset that they got 0 from the .30 game they just sold. It never made sense anyway because PayPal doesn't provide protection for digital purchases.
I'm glad F&F is finally officially allowed on digital purchases as a lot of asshole buyers were abusing this and sending regular PayPal on small purchases that were entirely eaten up by fees and then complaining afterwards when the sellers were understandably upset that they got 0 from the .30 game they just sold. It never made sense anyway because PayPal doesn't provide protection for digital purchases.
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Yeah, there was also one asshole on here forcing people to accept regular paypal payment (after the seller requested paypal F/F) and then the seller would have to refund him and it ended up costing them in refund fees. Not only that, but he got mod approval and used that to bully the sellers into accepting the payment.
I won't give names, but it's not too hard to figure out who they are.
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Have you read the PayPal user agreement?
(You know, the one that you agreed to when creating a PayPal account...)
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#8
"4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions."
People were "assholes" for following the rules?
Following the rules is "abuse"?
And this is the reason for the change here I'm sure.
(n.b. The change is ONLY for digital sales)
Would you have preferred that the "asshole" reported the sellers instead? Since, under the old rules, it wasn't allowed.
For what it's worth, it's never been an issue with me.
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CheapLikeAFox
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I see you fall into the category I mentioned.
I guess you think someone splitting a bundle and selling .25 to .50 cent games should lose money by doing so. Makes total sense. But then they shouldn't raise their prices to cover the cost if people insist on using a heavy fee service. Off to the blocked user list you go along with the others.
Of people who follow the rules of the sites that I use?
I guess so.
Well, that was pretty silly.
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I actually felt the same way, but only because it was the "rule." Maybe the guy was an asshole regardless. The only thing I could see being that bad is to do it on purpose to reduce the value of money sent to the seller. People really should have just come to an agreement of what payment method they would use if they weren't going to follow the rules anyway. You know, so they could not deal with people who didn't agree.
Just really speaking from how it felt the 'payments' were supposed to be followed.. according to the rule about no f&f as payment (at least I swear I read it this way before). It also doesn't really seem fair to assume someone agrees with losing money on bundle splits when the site's rules were clear about how payments should have been. I personally wouldn't have done bundle splits because I think losing money is stupid, though. I always thought it should fall under personal payments because of the money owed part and just looked at it like a lunch bill.
Just really speaking from how it felt the 'payments' were supposed to be followed.. according to the rule about no f&f as payment (at least I swear I read it this way before). It also doesn't really seem fair to assume someone agrees with losing money on bundle splits when the site's rules were clear about how payments should have been. I personally wouldn't have done bundle splits because I think losing money is stupid, though. I always thought it should fall under personal payments because of the money owed part and just looked at it like a lunch bill.
Rules are clearly different now, though..
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CheapLikeAFox
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There was one guy who you would agree with a price and a payment method and then he would try to send less and then when you would refund and refuse to take less than the agreed upon amount he would then resend, but via regular paypal and make you eat the fees or complain to a mod who would side with him because obviously rules govern over logic. And we're talking cheap bundle split here where eating the fee costs the seller to lose money and where honestly it's not even worth it and we're just doing it to help the community out and not make any money.
I always consider bundle splits not really a sale for the same reason. Granted, we're not "friends" in the technical sense, but if I've splitting a $2 bundle at cost I'm not selling anything, but just splitting something with someone which I think is the spirit of F&F payment. But I guess some people would prefer we either overcharge or go to other sites where everyone overcharges and no one tries to help each other out.
Most people weren't following that rule, at least for cheap digital items, especially with steam games (many of which are from cheap bundles). If you were to report the sellers, you'd have to report most digital key traders on the forum lol. I'm betting that's one of the reasons the rule has been changed.
I think bullying people is a much more serious offense. If someone only takes PP F&F payment you can simply refuse to buy from them which is perfectly fine. Forcing them to accept non-F&F payment after they request F&F payment from you is a big no-no though. Not only will the seller incur refund fees, but it makes you a total ass and you shouldn't be trading/buying from other people.
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thelonepig
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Splitting a bundle is within PayPal TOS for Friends and Family payments, and was never banned on CAG. Same with picking up items for other CAGs and selling it at cost plus shipping (happens all the time in the Steelbook thread; fantastic community).
The issue was, and remains unchanged, those who list a price but then require the buyer to use F&F or pay the fees. I've tried many times to purchase items from many people only to find that they either increase the cost of the item or flat out refuse to sell to me. It's rampant enough that I don't actively seek to buy anything on CAG. So yeah, the jackass designation goes both ways.
The issue was, and remains unchanged, those who list a price but then require the buyer to use F&F or pay the fees. I've tried many times to purchase items from many people only to find that they either increase the cost of the item or flat out refuse to sell to me. It's rampant enough that I don't actively seek to buy anything on CAG. So yeah, the jackass designation goes both ways.
GBKeroberos
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I don't think it's unreasonable that when a seller lists a price, that is the amount they expect to receive. Why would the burden of the fee fall on the seller when there's an easily accessible fee-free method?
thelonepig
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Because it's both against PayPal's user agreement and against the rules of this website for the seller to charge an additional fee for the use of PayPal or to use Friends and Family/Gift for the sale of merchandise.
GBKeroberos
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The difference is that you have some basic level of protection and/or recourse with those services.
GBKeroberos
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For digital items, it's no longer against the rules of this website.
The point is moot now anyway, but instead of "charging an additional fee" for the use of PayPal, you could list everything at a higher price, and offer a F&F discount (which would be your true price).
Semantics, and stupid.
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thelonepig
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Same with PayPal. Bottom line, you agreed to a TOS. The fee from those transactions keeps PayPal running.
Yes, that was discussed up-thread
Not according to the PayPal TOS you can't.
You can argue semantics all you want but it won't change the fact that F&F has become somewhat of a "norm" for a few years now here. It's also absurd that a seller of a 50 cent Steam game would be willing to eat over half of his sale in fees. We're all friends here anyway (unless you live in Brazil)[because you don't have access to F&F!], so using that option shouldn't be an issue, right? 
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CheapLikeAFox
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This exactly. Why do people get so obsessed over semantics?You can argue semantics all you want but it won't change the fact that F&F has become somewhat of a "norm" for a few years now here. It's also absurd that a seller of a 50 cent Steam game would be willing to eat over half of his sale in fees. We're all friends here anyway (unless you live in Brazil)[because you don't have access to F&F!], so using that option shouldn't be an issue, right?
[H]
Game
[W]
$5 Paypal + $.50 fee if using regular paypal.
or
[H]
Game
[W]
$5.50 Paypal
I mean if people want to pay extra to make sure you're following the rules, then by all means be my guest. The thing you don't get to do is say "I want you to follow the rules which means higher costs but I don't want the price to increase." That doesn't work that way. You can either reap the benefits of people's generosity or you can pay the cost of following the rules.
If you want the fee to be hidden because it helps you rest your head at night, then fine, but it doesn't change the fact you're still paying the fee.
bread's done