PSNOT 2.0 - I kind of want to subscribe to IndieBox.

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GatorBeerGeek said:
No worries. A lot of the mass produced ones are pretty awful. That Wild Blue one is pretty nasty. I thought it was craft at first but it is one of the faux craft labels Bud makes I think.

You have probably seen me mention New Glarus when talking to the Wisc contingent. They make 3 fruit based beers that are phenomenal, IMO.

The biggest local craft company, Sweetwater, makes one just called Blue. I hate it, but it sells really well. They made a Belgian one that was much stronger called Big Ole Belgian Blue Balls once and since it had more body and flavor, I liked it.
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I really like Wild Blue. Easy to drink, tastes like blueberry and 8%.

Big Ole Belgian Blue Balls sounds like my kind of drink!

 
tylerh1701 said:
I love how how Rocket League is somehow exempt from the dreaded classification "indie" in everyone's arguments between Plus and GwG.

For example, "All Sony has got the last few months are Rocket League and then a bunch of stupid indies"

I must have missed the part where Psyonix transformed into a massive developer and not an indie studio.
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Rocket League seems to have more mass appeal then most other indie titles. I have played some of these indie titles that are free on PSN but don't love most of them like you and others do. For the average gamer indie titles just aren't as wanted.

I would have to look over my list of games but Rocket League is certainly among my favorites as far as indie games go. If I was any good at Shovel Knight it would be on my list of great indie games.

 
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tylerh1701 said:
I love how how Rocket League is somehow exempt from the dreaded classification "indie" in everyone's arguments between Plus and GwG.

For example, "All Sony has got the last few months are Rocket League ( rare good indie game) and then a bunch of stupid (default) indies."
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jkam said:
I feel like I've been at Level 13 on PSN forever now and I'm only at 38%. I guess I need more Plats.
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Buy Magus

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tylerh1701 said:
I love how how Rocket League is somehow exempt from the dreaded classification "indie" in everyone's arguments between Plus and GwG.

For example, "All Sony has got the last few months are Rocket League and then a bunch of stupid indies"

I must have missed the part where Psyonix transformed into a massive developer and not an indie studio.
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Don't forget Ground Zeroes and Lara Croft and Osiris made by those well known indie companies, Konami and Square Enix. Add in Styx and Focus Home Interactive also.
 
kanamit said:
tylerh1701 said:
I love how how Rocket League is somehow exempt from the dreaded classification "indie" in everyone's arguments between Plus and GwG.

For example, "All Sony has got the last few months are Rocket League ( rare good indie game) and then a bunch of stupid (default) indies."
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Thanks for pointing this out. That sentence in no way says that RL isn't an indie game. It just says it isn't a stupid one.
 
The PSN price for Dishonored: Definitive Edition jumped back up to $39.99, despite the email some people got that said the $19.99 price for those who downloaded the PS3 version was good through 9/1.

 
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Vigilante said:
The PSN price for Dishonored: Definitive Edition jumped back up to $39.99, despite the email some people got that said the $19.99 price for those who downloaded the PS3 version was good through 9/1.
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Yeah I saw a few people say that over at the games deal threads. I never got that email. I am glad I picked it up. Hopefully start it up soon.

 
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guardian_owl said:
When they say "Indie," what they probably really mean is "cheap looking and 2D," which is what a lot of indie games look like or "glorified tech demos," which is what Grow Home kinda looks like.
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I think it's more broad than that, indie basically just means "I haven't heard of it and I'm not interested in giving it a chance".

 
tylerh1701 said:
I think it's more broad than that, indie basically just means "I haven't heard of it and I'm not interested in giving it a chance".
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Maybe. For me there are far too many games to play. I am going to notice the ones that get some advertising. I used to read video game magazines years ago. I remember reading an article on Infamous (ok not an indie) while taking the train to NYC for work. I was like I have to play that game when it comes out. I don't read magazines anymore. Even though I received the last 4 or 5 Game Informer magazines I barely look through them. So other then here many of these smaller titles I haven't heard of.

Certainly not hard for me to understand why 90% of XBox and PS gamers don't get super excited for many of these titles they never heard of.

 
jimbo8574 said:
Rocket League seems to have more mass appeal then most other indie titles. I have played some of these indie titles that are free on PSN but don't love most of them like you and others do. For the average gamer indie titles just aren't as wanted.

I would have to look over my list of games but Rocket League is certainly among my favorites as far as indie games go. If I was any good at Shovel Knight it would be on my list of great indie games.
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The whole point is that "indie" is an awful description, it's not a genre or anything else.

If those people aren't interested in 2D platformers then they need to say that, and I would understand that argument. But just calling them all "indies" is dumb and unfair to indie devs who are trying different things (like Armello and Zombie Vikings)

I'll be the first to state that this month is completely overloaded with platformers (4 1/2), specifically 2D platformers (3 1/2) and retro art style (3). Arguments like that are valid to me and totally fair. Just calling all those games "indies" make people look like dumbasses who aren't giving the games a fair shake IMO.

 
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guardian_owl said:
There is also apparently one save state you can put anywhere in the level in each game so you can get to the spot in the level you have problems (such as before a boss battle) and save right before it so you don't have to replay the whole section over again. That should make failure a lot less tedious.
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are you doing binary domain tonite? are you on truetrophies?

 
jimbo8574 said:
Maybe. For me there are far too many games to play. I am going to notice the ones that get some advertising. I used to read video game magazines years ago. I remember reading an article on Infamous (ok not an indie) while taking the train to NYC for work. I was like I have to play that game when it comes out. I don't read magazines anymore. Even though I received the last 4 or 5 Game Informer magazines I barely look through them. So other then here many of these smaller titles I haven't heard of.

Certainly not hard for me to understand why 90% of XBox and PS gamers don't get super excited for many of these titles they never heard of.
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There's a difference between not being excited for a game and publicly belittling it without trying it and unfairly lumping games that have nothing in common under the title "indie" and judging them all negatively.

And I know everyone delves into expectations and price a lot, but it's true. It's $4.25 per month for PS Plus. Canceling your membership and saving those funds for a year won't even buy you MGSV.

And that is probably my other big issue with all the Plus gripers. They whine and whine but they never say what they would actually prefer instead of the games we're getting. What games would you prefer to see on Plus instead of unknown indies, Jimbo?

 
The worst is people would salavate over a bad game like Knack because it's a retail release. When there are probably about 500 or more indies games that are better. 

 
tylerh1701 said:
I'll be the first to state that this month is completely overloaded with platformers (4 1/2), specifically 2D platformers (3 1/2) and retro art style (3). Arguments like that are valid to me and totally fair. Just calling all those games "indies" make people look like dumbasses who aren't giving the games a fair shake IMO.
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I guess you see indie as a negative term. I don't. For me it is just games from much smaller developers vs AAA (which I don't fully understand the definition of). I guess it is like the term hacker, It wasn't always synonymous with criminal. It used to be someone who liked to figure out how things worked.

If some one really likes first or third persons shooters set in a large world or even a sandbox what titles would you recommend? Other then maybe some strange Japanese RPG games are there any games like Borderlands, Fall Out, COD, Mass Effect, Destiny, GTA, Assassins Creed etc? Obviously games like this are just too massive for much smaller developer with a fraction of the budget.

I will admit most of these indie titles don't really appeal to me. I have tried some but many just don't seem to be something I want to devote my time to.

I also like games like the 80s arcade games. Most of which I suck at but really like the idea of those games. I bought Txk before it was free. I also bought Shadow Knight (suck at this game too). I liked what I played of Resogun on PS4, Enjoyed some Geometry Wars 3. But after a while I stop progressing and decide it isn't something I want to be frustrated at. I spent an hour or so with Sound Shapes on my Vita and didn't get a single trophy nor was I really drawn in. I might some day give it another go.

Not sure if Shadow Warrior would be consider indie or not by you or the general gamers but I loved that game. It was published by GT so I am thinking not though.

 
I think the point Stotch is trying to get across is that we have grown complacent with a glut of mediocre at best indies, with one or two standing out of the monthly "crap" we get on Plus. I know the dopamine kicks in for a lot here just at the prospect of hoarding "free" games or cheap ones from flash sales, so I'll probably be criticized too.

Rocket League succeeded because its quality and premise was good and it looks great compared to the usual fare we get. 

 
tylerh1701 said:
And I know everyone delves into expectations and price a lot, but it's true. It's $4.25 per month for PS Plus. Canceling your membership and saving those funds for a year won't even buy you MGSV.
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It would if you bought MGS V from Best Buy with GCU.

#semantics?

 
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Vigilante said:
There needs to be a Pix the Cat sequel...so I can 100% it and get more physical swag from the developers.
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I think you should start using using italics to emphasize words and bold for game titles. Every time I read a post where you reference a game I hear what I perceive to be your voice overly emphasizing the game's name.

 
tylerh1701 said:
And that is probably my other big issue with all the Plus gripers. They whine and whine but they never say what they would actually prefer instead of the games we're getting. What games would you prefer to see on Plus instead of unknown indies, Jimbo?
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IDK, I have played or bought many of the better known games I wanted to play. In July I said AC IV was pretty sweet on GWG for XBox One. I have already played that but wouldn't mind having it for 'free' on my PS4. I didn't get the plat before trading it off. I also think Tomb Raider is pretty nice this month as well. Again I have played this several times but never got the plat or messed around with the online. But that isn't a popular opinion here. Who wants a 2 year old AAA game that was $10 several times. Oh and MS sucks too right?

I am fine with getting more indie titles though. I pay $40 a year for PS+ and would even if wasn't required for online play. I am not complaining about the line up. Some months there are two games I want to play. Other months there are no games.

 
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Lets face it.  People like to complain if they arent given exactly what they want all the time.  Even if the service were free they would bitch and moan.   fuck em.

Plus has always been a great value for me.  I play so many games I would never even try if it werent for plus and even if I paid full price I would think I made out.  I have been plus since the beginning too. 

If I didnt like what was offered I would just cancel it and move on. 

 
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jimbo8574 said:
I guess you see indie as a negative term. I don't. For me it is just games from much smaller developers vs AAA (which I don't fully understand the definition of). I guess it is like the term hacker, It wasn't always synonymous with criminal. It used to be someone who liked to figure out how things worked.

If some one really likes first or third persons shooters set in a large world or even a sandbox what titles would you recommend? Other then maybe some strange Japanese RPG games are there any games like Borderlands, Fall Out, COD, Mass Effect, Destiny, GTA, Assassins Creed etc? Obviously games like this are just too massive for much smaller developer with a fraction of the budget.

I will admit most of these indie titles don't really appeal to me. I have tried some but many just don't seem to be something I want to devote my time to.

I also like games like the 80s arcade games. Most of which I suck at but really like the idea of those games. I bought Txk before it was free. I also bought Shadow Knight (suck at this game too). I liked what I played of Resogun on PS4, Enjoyed some Geometry Wars 3. But after a while I stop progressing and decide it isn't something I want to be frustrated at. I spent an hour or so with Sound Shapes on my Vita and didn't get a single trophy nor was I really drawn in. I might some day give it another go.

Not sure if Shadow Warrior would be consider indie or not by you or the general gamers but I loved that game. It was published by GT so I am thinking not though.
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Since you don't have a lot of time to read about and research games, I'm guessing you rarely wade onto video game forums like NeoGAF, reddit, and even the PS Blog. "Indie" has absolutely been converted into a negative term.

1st and 3rd person shooters in open worlds or sandboxes are not really big on the indie scene for two reasons. The first is what you said, cost. I'd imagine the costs between a game like Adventures of Pip and a game like State of Decay are monumentally different. The second is that even the best 3rd person open world indie game can NEVER compete with something like Just Cause 3 or Metal Gear Solid 5. There's no room in that market. None. Platforming, on the other hand, has been essentially abandoned by major developers and publishers. So have beat em ups, shoot em ups, and board games. Those genres are wide open for smaller developers to come in and try something unique that will get them noticed.

Shadow Warrior is one of those rare mid-level games that we don't see very often any more. It was developed by an independent company but it did have a publisher (Devolver Digital) which is a pretty decent size. It also was bulit off a license instead of being new IP and released at retail and for $40, neither of which really fit the description "indie".

 
pharmacrest said:
Lets face it. People like to complain if they arent given exactly what they want all the time. Even if the service were free they would bitch and moan. fuck em.

Plus has always been a great value for me. I play so many games I would never even try if it werent for plus and even if I paid full price I would think I made out. I have been plus since the beginning too.

If I didnt like what was offered I would just cancel it and move on.
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Playing Therm's Advocate here, it is possible we could pay off a Plus subscription with all the money "lost" buying games that later go on Plus. Food for thought.

 
SJD said:
Playing Therm's Advocate here, it is possible we could pay off a Plus subscription with all the money "lost" buying games that later go on Plus. Food for thought.
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huh? what are you trying to say here? how does this have anything to do with what I was saying? seriously confused by this statement.

 
Ooh, retro sale this week on PSN for a few games I'd buy for the right price (Hotline Miami 2, Jamestown+, Titan Souls, Grim Fandango Remastered).

 
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SJD said:
Playing Therm's Advocate here, it is possible we could pay off a Plus subscription with all the money "lost" buying games that later go on Plus. Food for thought.
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Those would really be the village idiots if they are arguing about the inclusion of indies in plus but somehow already spent more on those games because they looked so awesome they bought them at launch. You can't have it both ways.

Not to mention a large percentage of the indie titles we have gotten lately are at launch.

 
SJD said:
I think the point Stotch is trying to get across is that we have grown complacent with a glut of mediocre at best indies, with one or two standing out of the monthly "crap" we get on Plus. I know the dopamine kicks in for a lot here just at the prospect of hoarding "free" games or cheap ones from flash sales, so I'll probably be criticized too.

Rocket League succeeded because its quality and premise was good and it looks great compared to the usual fare we get.
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This is perfect.

An absolute perfect example of a comment I despise. Unfairly lumping together a bunch of different games and labeling them as "mediocre fare" without any concrete examples or reasons why any of those games are "mediocre" and then going on to label Rocket League as the stand out because "its quality and premise was good".

 
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GatorBeerGeek said:
His point is that some people are using it as a negative term but not using the term correctly since they want to somehow pick out the popular indie games and ignore the fact that they are indie because it would kill their argument.
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Other then Shovel Knight, TxK, Rocket League and a few others the main stream gamers don't care about most of these games. I think it is great there are enough people like tyler and yourself (and probably a dozen or two more in this thread) who enjoy all sort of games from big developers to a game developed by a fellow CAG.

But to not understand millions of other gamers just don't care about most of these smaller games (or whatever term you guys are ok with) is just as amazing to me. The casual gamer wants to play AAA titles.

I am not one of the complainers. But I can certainly understand there is a much large number of gamers who enjoy bigger budget games over many of these smaller games. And yes sometimes some of these smaller games does well enough that the more casual gamer will pick it up and play it and enjoy the hell out of it.

Hard to find the diamonds in the rough. Is there a list of every game published by year? I wonder how many console games were published last year?

 
pharmacrest said:
huh? what are you trying to say here? how does this have anything to do with what I was saying? seriously confused by this statement.
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In regards to the trying out games you wouldn't usually try and Tyler's statement of how Plus pays itself. If you took the $50 for Plus (and didn't need online multiplayer) you could use that money for games you'd actually want/buy on sales/ flash sales. You'd select them, instead of being fed a selection of random games. I like Plus, but it also pays to have in mind it isn't super rosy. Is it a great, all around value? Yes. But we do get our fair share of slaps often.

 
SJD said:
In regards to the trying out games you wouldn't usually try and Tyler's statement of how Plus pays itself. If you took the $50 for Plus (and didn't need online multiplayer) you could use that money for games you'd actually want/buy on sales/ flash sales. You'd select them, instead of being fed a selection of random games. I like Plus, but it also pays to have in mind it isn't super rosy. Is it a great, all around value? Yes. But we do get our fair share of slaps often.
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Okay, fine I can see that however that $50 might get you 5 games tops in a year where plus is giving you what 72? Out of 72 I cant imagine not liking more than 5. And you get online MP and extra stuff on PS3 right? PS3 doesnt have auto downloads without plus still right?

Oh and it isnt Sony's fault a lot of gamers like to hoard games they wont even play for years. If people just bought what they were going to play next they wouldnt get bitch slapped very often.

 
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