NBA Discussion Thread

ygoloib said:
Another start to another season so, what is everyone's take away so far
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1) Gonna be a long year for Mavs fans...but we've seen worse I suppose. We still have Dirk to appreciate.

2) The Clippers may actually be over the hill and prepared to take the next step. They looked great beating San Antonio on the road, but this has got to be the final year they roll with that core.

3) Joel Embiid is getting better every game and looks to be the front runner for Rookie of the Year.

 
We're about a third of the way through the season now...what are some of y'alls biggest takeaways?

If you would've told me before the season that after 27 games the Mavs would be tied for the worst record in the league with Philly, I would've laughed so hard at your knowledge of the game.  After all, we improved from Chandler Parson to Harrison Barnes, and upgraded to Andrew Bogut at the center position to form one of the better starting fives in the association.  Also, they added some youth and athleticism to the bench this season. No way the Mavericks are missing the playoffs! But I was wrong.  Without Dirk, the offense is really poor.  At least Philly can put up points...

That's my biggest takeaway.  The Mavericks are last...not only in the West but the entire NBA. Sucks, but hey there's a good draft pick coming up.  Hope is doesn't get traded at the deadline.

 
Made a post in another thread concerning Giannis and a really surprising/awesome historical comp. His numbers are a bit better now, as he had a monster game last night, but the post is still valid:

Per 100 possessions, 3 MVP Larry Bird seasons vs current season Giannis Antetokounmpo:

PTS

Bird: 32.3

Giannis: 32.7

REB

Bird: 12.5

Giannis: 13.0

AST

Bird: 8.2

Giannis: 8.3

STL, BLK

Bird: 2.2, 1.1

Giannis: 3.0, 2.8

Turnovers

Bird: 3.8

Giannis: 4.5

ORtg (points produced per 100 possessions), DRtg (points allowed per 100 possessions)

Bird: 117, 101

Giannis: 116, 99

To make this post even longer, here's some rate and advanced numbers:

PER

Bird: 25.5

Giannis: 27.3

TS% (factors in FG, 3PT, and FT rates and percentages)

Bird: 57.3

Giannis: 60.2

Win Shares per 48 minutes

Bird: .232

Giannis: .237

Bird's 83-84 season, his first MVP season, wasn't as impressive as his 86-87 and 87-88 seasons, but he didn't win MVP in those seasons, and I'm hyping Giannis here.

Giannis just turned 22 years old, and four years ago was a sub in a second-tier Greek league. He's already one of the best players in the game.

 
As far as the Mavericks, I expected them to miss the playoffs from the beginning, definitely not worst in the NBA.  Parsons to Barnes is really a lateral move, but I don't know how Parsons has fell off that far.  Bogut wasn't a good move to begin with either considering his injury history.

Harden has hopefully solidified his spot as a top 5 NBA player though.

 
RBK said:
Means nothing lol.
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The last two seasons, he's been as efficient as Bulls-era Michael Jordan. Last season, he used as many possessions as Charles Barkley. This season, he's using as many possessions as Shaq.

To use two contemporary players, he's been nearly as efficient as Steph Curry this season, while using as many possessions as LeBron. He's not efficient because he's standing in the corner, either. For another LeBron comp, LeBron has been assisted on 34.9% of his 2 point attempts. Kawhi has been assisted on 36.3% of his.

 
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It's advanced stats.  I'm sure Kawhi is better than Iverson if we just looked at those, but I'm more than positive not too many people would take Kawhi over Iverson.

He's good, but skill wise, he's not top 5. 

 
How cheap can you find NBA tickets - specifically, Cavs, on sites like SeatGeek, FlashSeats, StubHub, etc on game day? Will be in the area the week of a few games and would like to catch one. I've always heard the best times to get cheap tickets to these games is on game day on those sort of sites. Won't be until February though, not sure what demand and attendance is like during the winter there.

 
Navex said:
How cheap can you find NBA tickets - specifically, Cavs, on sites like SeatGeek, FlashSeats, StubHub, etc on game day? Will be in the area the week of a few games and would like to catch one. I've always heard the best times to get cheap tickets to these games is on game day on those sort of sites. Won't be until February though, not sure what demand and attendance is like during the winter there.
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The city's Craigslist site can be a great source too. Often times you get season ticket holders who either found out last minute they can't go or couldn't sell off the tickets so they drop the price for a quick sale. I'd say check the night before and morning of for some of those deals. I like StubHub because u guarantee your seat but you almost always pay more with the fees, tax and all that jazz. This is offsets the riskiness of finding a Craigslist deal though so it's kind of pick your poison.

 
kube00 said:
Too bad about the Mavs this year. Looks like Spurs are playing well.
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The Spurs look good at the moment, but they aren't living up to Spurs potential in my opinion, and I think its centered on the Gasol/Aldridge duo. Those are two of the weaker defensive frontcourt players in the league. They've always had a defensive presence in Duncan so it's a new look for the Spurs, but you get what you pay for bringing in Pau this offseason. I mean they'll be there in the top 3 obviously, so don't take this as me saying they're 1st round playoff exit material, but if I'm a Golden State or Cleveland fan this year, I'm not worried about San Antonio too much. That home dominance is from a year ago is gone. From almost going undefeated at home to having 5 home losses (some to teams like Orlando and Milwaukee) in the first half of the season is a big decline in home performance.

I would love to see them play Houston in the 2nd round though. The first few games have been fun to watch with an average margin of victory of 3 points.

 
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If the Pelicans sneak in as the 8th seed I still think the Warriors beat them but that frontcourt of Davis/Cousins could be a tough out in the playoffs. This could either be a new way to counter small ball teams or it may end up being a disaster for them, should be interesting to watch.

 
kdiddy1989 said:
The Spurs look good at the moment, but they aren't living up to Spurs potential in my opinion, and I think its centered on the Gasol/Aldridge duo. Those are two of the weaker defensive frontcourt players in the league. They've always had a defensive presence in Duncan so it's a new look for the Spurs, but you get what you pay for bringing in Pau this offseason. I mean they'll be there in the top 3 obviously, so don't take this as me saying they're 1st round playoff exit material, but if I'm a Golden State or Cleveland fan this year, I'm not worried about San Antonio too much. That home dominance is from a year ago is gone. From almost going undefeated at home to having 5 home losses (some to teams like Orlando and Milwaukee) in the first half of the season is a big decline in home performance.

I would love to see them play Houston in the 2nd round though. The first few games have been fun to watch with an average margin of victory of 3 points.
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Gasol has an undeserved bad reputation on defense. For his whole career, he's been at least solidly average and generally a bit above it defensively.

Aldridge is legitimately bad, and not having Duncan around to cover his mistakes/lack of defensive ability, plus Parker continuing to age, isn't helping LMA any.

 
ygoloib said:
So who will be the mvp? Mr. Triple double, the one man crew from Houston or the all around guy from San Antonio
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1. Harden

He's been as efficient as LeBron, even factoring in his stratospheric turnover rate. He's still bad defensively, but he's put up a token effort at times, and he's played the second most minutes in the NBA.

2. Kawhi

He's the best defensive player on the best defensive team in the NBA, and he's the most efficient and also the highest usage player on the 5th best offense in the NBA. He's the best player in the NBA for the regular season as of right now, but his volume is dwarfed by Harden. They will finish the season with a gap of near 600 minutes between them. Kawhi would need to turn in a peak LeBron or MJ season to overcome that amount of volume.

3. Russ

His triple double is inflated; he's averaging over a rebound per game on free throw misses, and the next nearest PG has fewer than 10 such rebounds. He also leads the NBA in uncontested rebounds. Additionally, his shooting numbers are horrendous (sans FT%).

However, he shows up on D. Oscar Robertson, in his triple double season, was on the court for about 115 possessions a game. Here are Westbrook's per 100 possession triple double stats:

44.4 PTS

14.8 REB

14.6 AST

The amount of volume evident in his season is hilarious, and deserves recognition. He's just not MVP.

4. LeBron

Take Kawhi's main flaw, and add high turnover rate (highest of career), poor FT shooting, and remove any semblance of defense. The most defense he plays is barking at his teammates for not covering his missed rotations. He did swallow Kawhi alive on a couple possessions late in one game, but that's a far cry from the D he played in previous MVP campaigns. If he were averaging 3 turnovers a game and 80% shooting from the free throw line, he'd win MVP in a landslide, even with the non-existent D. But he's not.

I love LeBron, he's the 3rd greatest player of all time right now, has a 7 year peak that is nearly indistinguishable from MJ's, and has a real chance to have a crazy peak and Kareem-like longevity. In essence, he might go down as the GOAT. But he's not MVP this season.

5. Pick one from Gobert, Giannis, or Butler

 
For me it's Russ, then Harden, Then Kawhi, Then Isaiah Thomas, Them LeBron. I'm fine with any order, but the Cav's being so bad after the All Star break have LeBron in 5th for me. Plus, I hate LeBron so I'll use any excuse to take him down a peg. 

As far as Russ goes,  I just love the way he plays. He's an assassin like Kobe and MJ were. I love players who just want to murder the basket, the other team, and everything else in the way of winning. I know his team isn't a top seed, but they would be the WORST team in the NBA without Russ. Right along side Brooklyn. For real, look at that squad. 

 
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I knew Larry bird should have suited up for the pacers lol. Also can Rus really be the MVP if his team gets swept
 
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I don't care for Lebron James. I think he flops too much, which I view as a form of cheating, and I feel that most of his uniqueness is the fact that he's a very large man, with excellent quickness, playing in a league where minimal contact can result in flagrant fouls and suspensions, making him much less guard-able than past eras would allow. 

I do not care for him. 

 
Jump shooters in the West play much better defense.

Before the series, my heart said Cavs in 6, but my brain said Warriors in 5. Game 1 didn't change that, aside from increasing the possibility that the Cavs will get swept.

 
Feeding the Abscess said:
Jump shooters in the West play much better defense.

Before the series, my heart said Cavs in 6, but my brain said Warriors in 5. Game 1 didn't change that, aside from increasing the possibility that the Cavs will get swept.
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Well, you were almost right, though they avoided the sweep last night. Officiating was the name of the game but honestly anyone that has watched NBA knows it's the most commonly "fixed" sport. Contrary to what people are saying though I doubt the league wants the Cavs to win, they just want the series to get prolonged so everyone makes more money. "Best for business" approach, no-brainer.

 
pitfallharry219 said:
I think the Cavs did about as well as they could have. It's certainly more than the Pacers got for George.
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More than the Bulls got for Butler, too.

I'm not a fan of IT3, but I like the Cleveland side. Crowder is a solid defender and has turned into an above average shooter, plus his contract might be the best in the NBA. IT3 is awful defensively, but Kyrie wasn't much better, and IT3 is more efficient and less prone to iso ball. Zizic is a wild card, and the Brooklyn pick gives Cleveland either a future asset or a trade chip (HOT TAKE: Love/Shumpert/Brooklyn 1st for AD?).

One huge caveat is that Brad Stevens is a far better coach than Ty Lue, and Stevens constructed an offense that utilized IT3 to his max ability.

 
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poor hayward, it's possible he could be back for the playoffs. It all depends now if kyrie can truly lead a team by himself. definitely want to see how the thunder matchup with the warriors.
 
hearing rumblings that LeBron could join the warriors next season. Damn well know the NBA better stop that if it's a possiblity. Everyone wants it too easy in life
 
The bigger story should be that, over the second 3rd of the season, LeBron has been terrible. His ORtg is equal to Lonzo Ball's over the same period of time.

The chief reason the Cavs have been so awful is that LeBron has legitimately sucked and played bad basketball for close to two months.

Part of me wants to say it's effort/focus related, he has watches guards walk in for uncontested layup after layup with his hands on his hips, but his shooting has taken a nosedive, too. He's 33 and has a ton of mileage on his body, the end of peak/near peak LeBron may have come upon us without anybody recognizing it.

 
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So when LeBron loses to the warriors what team will he join? My bet is the sixers then the rockets. he will only stay in Ohio if they bring another star which I think is near impossible
 
ygoloib said:
So when LeBron loses to the warriors what team will he join? My bet is the sixers then the rockets. he will only stay in Ohio if they bring another star which I think is near impossible
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I don't think he wants any part of the western conference. He should stay in the east for the cakewalk to the Finals. Philly makes the most sense, but do you want to risk retarding the growth of Embiid and Simmons for a chance to lose to Houston or Golden State in the Finals? He played GM in Cleveland and sunk the franchise in bad deals. He's not going to have GM power with other teams unless they're REALLY bad (Knicks). I think it's got to be Philly, if Philly wants him.

The Lakers talk is insanity. An LA team with LBJ, Paul George, Kuzma, and Brandon Ingram aren't winning anything, and they'd likely have to lose Ball and Randle to have a chance to make it happen.

He can get PAID or he can perennially compete for Finals, but it's going to be hard to do both with the current state of the league.

 
well LeBron is a free agent officially. since my last post LA seems to have become the leading contender if they can make San Antonio deal Leonard. I didn’t think of Leonard as a sensitive star but damn if he leaves San Antonio, they need to stay drafting international gems only
 
ygoloib said:
http://www.nba.com/article/2018/07/01/lebron-james-agrees-four-year-deal-los-angeles-lakers
they need more or this will be Cleveland west.
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I think Rondo makes them better than last year, Lebron makes them 10-15 games better than last year, and another year with Ball, Ingram, and Kuz make them 5 games better too. Last year they were 35 and 47. I think overnight they became a 50 win team. They're better than any of the teams that finished after them, and better than 6 teams that finished ahead of them last year.

I think the 2019 West Standings go like this:

1) Rockets

2) Warriors

3) Jazz

4) Lakers

5) Thunder

6) Blazers

7) Pelicans

8) Spurs

I wouldn't be surprised to see the T Wolves at 7 and the Pelicans out though. The Spurs...that's a legacy 8th seed. They could miss the playoffs if they don't deal Kawhai and that wouldn't surprise me either. But I think the Lakers are in the top half of the West right now, if they don't sign another player. Remember, you can pencil in 12 wins against the East alone, they should sweep the Clippers, Suns, Kings, Grizzlies and probably the Mavs.

 
ygoloib said:
Well I almost forgot it’s a new season so, who do we have finishing as runner ups to Golden State
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I think Houston gets them this year. I'm not happy about that either, because I really don't like Houston. This year and last, I haven't shared in the opinion that everyone else is playing for second.

 
berzirk said:
I think Rondo makes them better than last year, Lebron makes them 10-15 games better than last year, and another year with Ball, Ingram, and Kuz make them 5 games better too. Last year they were 35 and 47. I think overnight they became a 50 win team. They're better than any of the teams that finished after them, and better than 6 teams that finished ahead of them last year.

I think the 2019 West Standings go like this:

1) Rockets

2) Warriors

3) Jazz

4) Lakers

5) Thunder

6) Blazers

7) Pelicans

8) Spurs

I wouldn't be surprised to see the T Wolves at 7 and the Pelicans out though. The Spurs...that's a legacy 8th seed. They could miss the playoffs if they don't deal Kawhai and that wouldn't surprise me either. But I think the Lakers are in the top half of the West right now, if they don't sign another player. Remember, you can pencil in 12 wins against the East alone, they should sweep the Clippers, Suns, Kings, Grizzlies and probably the Mavs.
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The Lakers are probably a player away from making the playoffs and contending. If they get one more all star then maybe. THey need a Durant or a Kawhi Leonard before we can talk about them making the playoffs and contending.

 
LeBron all about that Hollywood lifestyle now, basketball is second to him now. The one thing that fascinates me is who will win the east? It could easily be the sixers, bucks, Celtics and the raptors.
 
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