Xbox Deals and Discussion

adonfraz said:

To make money, and MS is unfortunately closing studios to save money.

It's all about money at the end of the day.

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Wasn’t the reasoning for the money to go to those studios to fund projects?

Out of all the news to come out of Xbox in the last year, this is the worst of all of it. Talented studios. Sad.

I hope they are doing what they can to keep the top talent from these teams and shift them over to Bethesda. A couple of random statistics, that might highlight some of the issues here. TA player count might give you a rough idea of how popular a game is for people to at least install and play, while the ratio can be an indication of how many people are putting serious time into it (a lower ratio would indicate more playtime). These obviously aren't perfect stats, but could give an indication of what's going on. MS's business model is changing away from purchasing games to renting them via Game Pass. If the average player is just checking out a game briefly but doesn't invest any serious time into it, it is likely deemed a flop as it is not driving subscriptions. Historically, you just needed the hype of a good/great title to drive a one time purchase and possibly DLC down the road. If I was at Xbox I would read stats like this and think that Western RPG's, shooters, Forza, and EA Play (mainly sports content) are where the bread is buttered for Xbox. Disappointing that they are closing studios, but I think closing Tango Gameworks is a big mistake. If for nothing else, having highly reviewed titles like Hi-Fi Rush and Pentiment in your development lineup is critical to offset the bad taste of a Redfall when it happens.

• Starfield - 411k TA players - 2.5 TA ratio. Pretty strong performance on this one
• Grounded - 238k TA players - 3.5 TA ratio (can complete all achievements in seconds, so this ratio should be higher). Likely that a subset of players dumped a lot of time into it, achievement chasers (myself included) dumped 20 minutes into it, and a lot of people checked it out and didn't stick around too long.
• Hi-Fi Rush - 158k TA players - 7.8 TA ratio. Reviewers loved it but not a great indication that players stuck with this one
• Redfall - 144k TA players - 3.7 TA ratio. I would have guessed the ratio would have been higher for this based on how hated it seemed to be. Still, far from successful as even the DLC is cancelled. This is the Too Human (Silicon Knights) of this generation - a fantastic team brought down by one bad game. Hopefully Rocksteady can avoid a similar fate
• Pentiment - 29k TA players - 1.9 TA ratio. Looks like a niche audience loved it and completed it

awp said:

Out of all the news to come out of Xbox in the last year, this is the worst of all of it. Talented studios. Sad.

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Obviously it’s a closure so not exactly the same, but this reminds me of Microsoft screwing things up with Insomniac after Sunset Overdrive.

Once Mikami announced he was leaving I kind of expected Tango was in danger. Bethesda was apparently hard to work under, and it lead to the original director of Tokyo Ghostwire leaving the studio too. They basically only had the lead from Hi-Fi Rush left, and Evil Within was dead. This is a real shame since it was their only Japanese team.

I guess Arkane Austin is kind of a surprise. Redfall was a hard flop, but I guess Prey only sold OK as well despite being good.

Bloomy said:

I've had The Division 2 Warlords of NY upgrades for a few weeks as well as AC Valhalla Complete and Ragnarok Editions under Special Offers. Seems they need to work on things a bit, because I own the Valhalla Complete, which the store acknowledges, and the Ragnarok Edition is already covered by Complete.

I don't own the New Tales from the Borderlands yet, stubbornly holds at 50% off when it constantly goes on sale. When viewing the "In this bundle" section for the Pandora's Box, it doesn't show that I own the first Tales episodes. Once I own New Tales, Pandora's Box should disappear, too.

I think the at risk Adult Swim games are Headlander, Mega Coin Squad, Rise & Shine, Samurai Jack: Battle Through Time and Westerado: Double Barreled. Those are the ones TA lists as published by Adult Swim Games. If there are any others, let me know. I check the dates on them a couple times a week, right now they're all set with the Dec 30, 9998, date things get when there's nothing on the horizon. I also check on Activision titles for potential GP additions.

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I bought the Pandora's Box when it was first introduced and it hasn't left my "For You" section since.

Microsoft wonders why they can't make any headway into the Japanese market...

Donken said:

Microsoft wonders why they can't make any headway into the Japanese market...

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Well maybe if Master Chief had a sweet armor transformation sequence or could make an omelette rice with a heart on it, then maybe they'd win over that country and me as well.

SIX min WHISTLE said:

Once Mikami announced he was leaving I kind of expected Tango was in danger. Bethesda was apparently hard to work under, and it lead to the original director of Tokyo Ghostwire leaving the studio too. They basically only had the lead from Hi-Fi Rush left, and Evil Within was dead. This is a real shame since it was their only Japanese team.

I guess Arkane Austin is kind of a surprise. Redfall was a hard flop, but I guess Prey only sold OK as well despite being good.

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Have you heard the good news? Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is coming to XBSX and PS5.

Donken said:

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If you think a game studio that was originally founded by a man who wanted to get away from survival horror games only to be pushed into making survival horror games by the publisher (and whom later quit that studio so he wouldn't have to make any more damn survival horror games) was going to make any difference in Japan then you are waaaaaay too optimistic.

bardockkun said:

If you think a game studio that was originally founded by a man who wanted to get away from survival horror games only to be pushed into making survival horror games by the publisher (and whom later quit that studio so he wouldn't have to make any more damn survival horror games) was going to make any difference in Japan then you are waaaaaay too optimistic.

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It's more of the fact that Tango was the only Japanese studio they had so far, and Phil has hinted that they wanted to buy one if it was possible, but killing off the only one they currently had is probably not a great look if they were serious about buying another Japanese studio.

SIX min WHISTLE said:

Once Mikami announced he was leaving I kind of expected Tango was in danger. Bethesda was apparently hard to work under, and it lead to the original director of Tokyo Ghostwire leaving the studio too. They basically only had the lead from Hi-Fi Rush left, and Evil Within was dead. This is a real shame since it was their only Japanese team.

I guess Arkane Austin is kind of a surprise. Redfall was a hard flop, but I guess Prey only sold OK as well despite being good.

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IIRC from Jason Schreier (spelling?), 70% of Arkane actually left during Redfall's development and they didn't want to make that kind of game (always-online looter-shooter of sorts with some imm-sim stuff) as they wanted to make straight-up imm-sims.

Links:
- https://www.gamespot.com/articles/r...ose-70-of-preys-dev-team-report/1100-6514721/
- https://www.escapistmagazine.com/redfall-development-lost-70-percent-staff-arkane-austin-prey/

Donken said:

It's more of the fact that Tango was the only Japanese studio they had so far, and Phil has hinted that they wanted to buy one if it was possible, but killing off the only one they currently had is probably not a great look if they were serious about buying another Japanese studio.

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Fair. I Still feel more bummed that Microsoft made their more most notable and original game in years and one that got on many "best of 2023" lists and felt "get that studio out of here." Though I also feel bad for Arkane Texas since that studio was just forced by Bethesda to make a game that the studio itself didn't feel comfortable with and no one wanted to do, but just pushed it on them regardless. Man, Todd Howard. You ing suck.

SIX min WHISTLE said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1787860907588030860

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Classy microsoft...Classy

Should not come as a surprise that MS is closing studios. That seems to always happen when there are corporate mergers. Still super sad for those devs, but definitely not shocking

Hi-Fi Rush is part of this months Humble Choice bundle lmao…

FamedGuardian said:

Hi-Fi Rush is part of this months Humble Choice bundle lmao…

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It's also on sale for a new lowest price. Never finished it so I might pick it up rn so I don't lose it being without a gp sub

Bungie is continuing to pull out all stops to get people in or back from Final Shape. The last 3 expansions aside from the current one are F2P for the next month, Lightfall is part of PS+, and they just dropped their first ever multiplayer map pack.

SIX min WHISTLE said:

Bungie is continuing to pull out all stops to get people in or back from Final Shape. The last 3 expansions aside from the current one are F2P for the next month, Lightfall is part of PS+, and they just dropped their first ever multiplayer map pack.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1787890222211985618

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I don’t like the timed freebies, I never do the free to play weekends.

SIX min WHISTLE said:

Bungie is continuing to pull out all stops to get people in or back from Final Shape. The last 3 expansions aside from the current one are F2P for the next month, Lightfall is part of PS+, and they just dropped their first ever multiplayer map pack.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1787890222211985618

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Well it's been a complete failure. In The Pantheon, they are giving more loot to the raiders and groups whom can already acquire said raid loot. It doesn't help. The same way that you can't use your Deepsight Harmonizers on acquiring patterns if you don't already raid for Spoils of Conquest. They aren't throwing anyone a bone. It does not get people back into playing the game again.

Yes, they are pulling all sorts of cheap tactics in order to get streamers and influencers showing their game again. Bungie just wants to be on TV and in the clickbait news cycle. But pre-orders are down -80% because players feel ripped off from Lightfall. It is up to them to earn everyone's trust again with The Final Shape. But we know who they are at this point. I'm not buying that game until they show me something. I felt this way during Lightfall, had a huge hunch, bought into it in order to have access to the new stuff and support the game, and then I was taken advantage of.

Pretty much had it with these service games companies. It's always the same result. always chasing profits, to pay their bloated staffing and line execuctive pockets. Bungie is also working on Destiny 3 and Marathon right now. While still trying to extract funds from everyone, at every corner. It's a bad taste. It's not that I can't afford the $100; it's that you feel like you're being taken for a ride. Just like Actilvision-Blizzard games. Every seasonal event in Destiny is just "log in and buy our cosmetic shit".

Then they do things like giving Lightfall away for free this month, as they attempt to rebuild their user base. That creates buyers' remorse; I knew better.

Bungie has lost most of the brand name and credibility they've built. I wouldn't recommend any new player spend money on their games.

does tango closing mean no Evil within 3?

Legendbatista said:

does tango closing mean no Evil within 3?

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That’s what I’m curious of. I’m sure it’s scrapped because they were the ones working on it.

Shinji was gone anyway, Evil Within 3 was probably going to be disappointing at best.

I think the Destiny stuff is a valiant effort lately. The free update is great. A fun new mode with some of the best current loot, free multiplayer maps, free exotic missions with easy to earn craftable Exotics. I bailed a long ago due to repetitive seasonal model and highly yearly upkeep. I'm back in now due to this free stuff and the large backlog of content since I quit. Even the recent season had fun stuff. I can definitely see being burnt out. And I don't know if I'll stick around once Final Shape is wrapped, but at bare minimum I think the game is getting a good send off currently, if a lot of people do quit after the expansion.

Lightfall being "free" after over a year post launch, I don't see the issue. Most of it is not good and people going forward are only going to buy it for the Strand subclass.

As for Pantheon. Yes, it's definitely aimed at people that already raid, I don't know what else people expected, and this was not the thing aimed at drawing in new or even most lapsed players. It's literally 4 to 8 underleveled boss fights with complex mechanics back to back, that's only going to be around for a month. At best, it's a bragging right mode for the hardcore, and a pity unlock for people who haven't gotten the related Exotics it has. If someone really wants the rewards, it is totally feasible to learn the mechanics now and use LFG to get through it, at least for the first week's challenge.

Where the stink are the new and improved Xbox controllers? Maybe they will be announced in their June special?

Donken said:

Microsoft wonders why they can't make any headway into the Japanese market...

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The Japanese market has spoken: they're not console gamers. There's a reason why any random week 14 out of the top 15 game sales are all switch, because they love mobile and PC. If they're not on their phones, they're on switch or Steam to play games. Sony is more popular in the EU than their home country, which is why they're (begrudgingly) porting their titles to PC just to keep sales growth. The US is actually the last bastion for consoles at this point and I think it's only a matter of time before Sony is the last console maker even trying.

I do think we'll see an Xbox equivalent Steam Deck, but Valve may have already won that space. I would love to see Xbox evolve into a PC in a box that can do it all: console and PC gaming. I'm 90% sure that's their plan, but the timing is everything.

MysterD said:

IIRC from Jason Schreier (spelling?), 70% of Arkane actually left during Redfall's development and they didn't want to make that kind of game (always-online looter-shooter of sorts with some imm-sim stuff) as they wanted to make straight-up imm-sims.

Links:
- https://www.gamespot.com/articles/r...ose-70-of-preys-dev-team-report/1100-6514721/
- https://www.escapistmagazine.com/redfall-development-lost-70-percent-staff-arkane-austin-prey/

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Yep, and because this is old info it's getting lost in the shuffle. It explains the decision to close the studio at a macro-level considering they were likely running a skeleton crew just to get Redfall shipped. Worse still when it was panned and any desire to revive something DOA was likely quickly scrapped. The closure was really to cement what had occurred years ago.

It's kinda impressive how Microsoft disappointed not just XBox fans, but gamers in general with the Tango closure.

Jodou said:

The Japanese market has spoken: they're not console gamers. There's a reason why any random week 14 out of the top 15 game sales are all switch, because they love mobile and PC. If they're not on their phones, they're on switch or Steam to play games. Sony is more popular in the EU than their home country, which is why they're (begrudgingly) porting their titles to PC just to keep sales growth. The US is actually the last bastion for consoles at this point and I think it's only a matter of time before Sony is the last console maker even trying.

I do think we'll see an Xbox equivalent Steam Deck, but Valve may have already won that space. I would love to see Xbox evolve into a PC in a box that can do it all: console and PC gaming. I'm 90% sure that's their plan, but the timing is everything.

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I think there is room for Microsoft to step into the handheld pc space. Valve doesn't seem intent on updating the steam deck and that hardware is not getting any younger. MS can put something out with comparable (or better) power to an ROG Ally but at more of a Steam Deck price by using it as another means to increase game sales and game pass subs. Sell the hardware cheap and make revenue off software sales.

Handheld PC seems to be a mess outside of SteamDeck. Most of the options are too expensive and have shit battery life. I don't know if another branch of hardware is happening from the Xbox team either, not as hard as they're pushing streaming to phones. Maybe something like the PS streaming thing.

Know not everyone is a fan of Phil Spencer but I wouldn’t be surprised if the next shoe to drop is him leaving. I honestly don’t think this is what he envisioned for Xbox but don’t think he’s pulling the strings anymore.

Bloomy said:

I've had The Division 2 Warlords of NY upgrades for a few weeks as well as AC Valhalla Complete and Ragnarok Editions under Special Offers. Seems they need to work on things a bit, because I own the Valhalla Complete, which the store acknowledges, and the Ragnarok Edition is already covered by Complete.

I don't own the New Tales from the Borderlands yet, stubbornly holds at 50% off when it constantly goes on sale. When viewing the "In this bundle" section for the Pandora's Box, it doesn't show that I own the first Tales episodes. Once I own New Tales, Pandora's Box should disappear, too.

I think the at risk Adult Swim games are Headlander, Mega Coin Squad, Rise & Shine, Samurai Jack: Battle Through Time and Westerado: Double Barreled. Those are the ones TA lists as published by Adult Swim Games. If there are any others, let me know. I check the dates on them a couple times a week, right now they're all set with the Dec 30, 9998, date things get when there's nothing on the horizon. I also check on Activision titles for potential GP additions.

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Theory is that owning the bigger editions still registers as owning the base game since it's technically a separate item in the packages. I'm sure it's complicated to filter them out, especially if you have them through Ubisoft+.
Glad to see you're on top of the Adult Swim Games. There aren't any others I can think of.

FamedGuardian said:

So what was the reason for Hi-Fi Rush moving to PS?

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Probably a hail mary to keep the studio going/make easy money. Clearly the PS5 version didn't sell well enough to even justify making a Switch port and at this point, they're just firesaling it based on the recent massive Steam discount/bundling.

SIX min WHISTLE said:

Once Mikami announced he was leaving I kind of expected Tango was in danger. Bethesda was apparently hard to work under, and it lead to the original director of Tokyo Ghostwire leaving the studio too. They basically only had the lead from Hi-Fi Rush left, and Evil Within was dead. This is a real shame since it was their only Japanese team.

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This. Honestly, I'm surprised Tango's demise wasn't sooner. I know Evil Within 2 didn't sell particularly well and I can't imagine Ghostwire Tokyo did either. HiFi Rush seems like it would have saved the studio except it was a console exclusive and day 1 Game Pass that didn't have a particularly high price tag which means it didn't necessarily bring in a ton of revenue from purchases. When I heard about Mikami's departure from the studio almost exactly 30 days after release, seemed like the writing was on the wall.

The two smaller studios getting axed isn't unexpected, though what is surprising is that one of them (Roundhouse) were the remnants of Human Head (creators of the original Prey and infamously screwed by Bethesda during development of Prey 2 which funnily enough got passed over to Arkane Austin, another casualty of today). They nearly went defunct because Bethesda was playing hardball with their payments in order to pressure them into a buyout while making Prey 2 but Human Head told them to off. However, ironically, after their last game release in 2019 (5 years or so after parting ways with Bethesda), they immediately closed the studio and the team was hired by Bethesda's parent company, Zenimax. The House always wins.
Anyway, given they seemingly made no games since being acquired 5 years ago (and you know, made The Quiet Man only a year before that), I have to imagine all their projects were stuck in development hell, so not exactly shocking to see the studio dissolved.

I would say Arkane Austin's closure is the most surprising (I have to believe Prey sold better than Evil Within 2 and Ghostwire Tokyo) but reading that 70% of the studio dipped because of Redfall makes it make more sense. I have to imagine having a studio in Austin is getting closer and closer to California expenses too on top of the black eye of Redfall. Arkane also lost its founder (who was heavily involved in the Austin branch) around two months after Prey's release and the long-time head of the Lyon branch in 2021, so the studio was probably overdue for a shake-up. On the bright side, the original Arkane studio in Lyon is still around and they'll probably be fine since they're working on a Marvel IP that will print them money unless they majorly it up.

While these decisions make sense, I have to wonder if they would have been entirely necessary if Starfield had set the world on fire like it was supposed to. With how often Bethesda drops the ball, it seems like a 343-esque leadership purge is inevitable. Probably not anytime soon, especially with the goodwill from the recent Fallout show, but maybe someday.

awp said:

Know not everyone is a fan of Phil Spencer but I wouldn’t be surprised if the next shoe to drop is him leaving. I honestly don’t think this is what he envisioned for Xbox but don’t think he’s pulling the strings anymore.

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Could definitely see it happen unless he really really likes his paycheck more than he minds being the damage control guy all the time.

awp said:

Know not everyone is a fan of Phil Spencer but I wouldn’t be surprised if the next shoe to drop is him leaving. I honestly don’t think this is what he envisioned for Xbox but don’t think he’s pulling the strings anymore.

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Yeah honestly believe it was Satya that made the call and Xbox had to follow through. Still don't think it was remotely the right move.

This is some news to be greeted by today. As if Xbox needed any more bad PR. Wonder how long until Ninja Theory is shutdown when Hellblade 2 doesn't sell well.

Strider Turbulence EX said:

You shouldn't. I believe if you have the funds added to your account, you can either change the region on your xbox and buy the game or just go the turkish xbox page.

I did this a few years ago when buying some Hong Kong region games, to this day, it still shows I like 1HKD or something on my account.

With that said.....this might be more of a hassle than what it's worth, particually if the seller doesn't give you enough to cover taxes.

On a related note, I'm compiling a list of xbox 360 games I want and then having a seller buy the games for me on an alt account I made. It's funny because I have 2 accounts I made as secondary for region diff purchases but after awhile, they start feeling like primary accounts and I get more and more anxious trusting a seller with log in info to buy things on them.

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I tried to claim the Turkish currency gift card that he provided while connecting using PrivadoVPN, which has worked for me many times for claiming game codes, and I get the following error:
"Contact us at Microsoft support
We’re having trouble processing your payment and we’d like to get it sorted out."
So I guess that route doesn't work. In the future I won't buy from that seller. Lesson learned, at least I'm only out about $8.

awp said:

Know not everyone is a fan of Phil Spencer but I wouldn’t be surprised if the next shoe to drop is him leaving. I honestly don’t think this is what he envisioned for Xbox but don’t think he’s pulling the strings anymore.

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I've lost faith in Phil. 10 years since he took over and while some of the policy changes were good, the actual handling of games and studios has ranged from neutral to disaster, very few I would call unqualified successes. He doesn't seem to be able to push back against major ups unless there is extreme community backlash, assuming they weren't his call to begin with (Gold doubling in price).

Since he moved up a rung, I feel like we've heard nothing of substance from his replacement Sarah Bond.

Why didn’t MS kill Rare … they haven’t made a good game in forever.

etcrane said:

Why didn’t MS kill Rare … they haven’t made a good game in forever.

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While it’s not for me, Sea of Thieves is pretty big and is lighting up the charts on PS5 too.

awp said:

While it’s not for me, Sea of Thieves is pretty big and is lighting up the charts on PS5 too.

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As someone who was so excited by the possibilities of Sea of Thieves before release … that game is one of the biggest disappointments from its potential to what we got. I know it’s gotten better … but it’s still far too empty and janky. I expected Ark with pirate ships and some Skyrim … instead it was a multiplayer required slog fest with empty islands and a few skeletons. So many of the recent Xbox releases just make me sad.

Cannot imagine morale internally at MS Gaming getting any lower.

Between the 1,900 layoffs earlier this year and now this.

Not sure how is anyone going to be excited about the Xbox showcase this year?

SIX min WHISTLE said:

I've lost faith in Phil. 10 years since he took over and while some of the policy changes were good, the actual handling of games and studios has ranged from neutral to disaster, very few I would call unqualified successes. He doesn't seem to be able to push back against major ups unless there is extreme community backlash, assuming they weren't his call to begin with (Gold doubling in price).

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My impression is that based on their -ups historically, Spencer was big on being hands-off, especially with acquisitions. Unfortunately, this has led to a lot of mismanagement by the studios themselves. Need a more middle of the road approach.

etcrane said:

Why didn’t MS kill Rare … they haven’t made a good game in forever.

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"Why couldn't this other company have been laid off?" Is a ing dog shit take to anything.

It seems Bungie also gave everyone the last FOUR seasons of content for free in Destiny. Unclear if it was intentional.

Just an update and a question with the 360 store closing down. I am still really enjoying fall Out 4. I have really got comfortable with the interface now. I wish I knew now what I’ve learned about the perk system. It’s a bit different from what I’ve tried previously. I guess I will be ready for the other games now. Someone mentioned the Dishwasher games from Ska Studios. I recall buying them when they came out, was that 2009-2010 or maybe later? I just confirmed that all of those games from that studio are not back compat. I want to confirm my rewards points to a GC so I can buy the other game from that studio. Can anyone go over the steps to buy from the xbox 360 using the MS/credits. I will also mention the Ska Studies games are extremely difficult. I can’t recall if his future game had a difficulty selector?

bardockkun said:

"Why couldn't this other company have been laid off?" Is a ing dog shit take to anything.

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Dog eat dog world dude

Yep seems like these studios are given too long of a leash, allow for scope creep to no end, with a bottomless budget. Everyone is so afraid of “crunch culture” they’re allowed to develop a game for 10 years when the demand peaked 5 years before release.

BobbyTastic said:

Theory is that owning the bigger editions still registers as owning the base game since it's technically a separate item in the packages. I'm sure it's complicated to filter them out, especially if you have them through Ubisoft+.
Glad to see you're on top of the Adult Swim Games. There aren't any others I can think of.

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If the store knows I own the individual pieces, it can "AND" those checks to see if I own all the pieces of a bundle and exclude the deal. Unless the deal also applies to buying as a gift.

wormycoolness said:

I want to confirm my rewards points to a GC so I can buy the other game from that studio. Can anyone go over the steps to buy from the xbox 360 using the MS/credits.

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You have to buy the games on an actual Xbox 360 to use any Xbox/Microsoft store credit. Buying through the 360 Marketplace web site won't let you use them, just credit card or PayPal.

Volitar Prime said:

You have to buy the games on an actual Xbox 360 to use any Xbox/Microsoft store credit. Buying through the 360 Marketplace web site won't let you use them, just credit card or PayPal.

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Thank you! This means I will have to search for my Xbox 360.