2008 NFL Season Thread

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[quote name='pimpinc333']:applause: Ha only Steeler Fans would think that.[/quote]


I never thought that.. but he is better than Romo... also I will say this about Brady.. he is a product of the system and he has the players around him.. If he was in SF or somewhere that wasn't very good, he wouldn't be a top 3 QB in the NFL, although he'd be pretty decent still
 
[quote name='DJSteel']I never thought that.. but he is better than Romo... also I will say this about Brady.. he is a product of the system and he has the players around him.. If he was in SF or somewhere that wasn't very good, he wouldn't be a top 3 QB in the NFL, although he'd be pretty decent still[/quote]

Most QBs are only as good as the players around them. These days there are way less "stars" that can will their team to victory like Elway, Favre and Young to name a few. I totally agree that without the coaching and gameplanning Brady wouldn't be nearly as successful as he has been (he'd still be good though because he has an accurate arm and makes good decisions under pressure). Nowadays most teams just want a QB who can "manage the game" (I hate that phrase) and not make game killing mistakes. Brady started out that way when his team around him wasn't that great but he has turned into a superstar because the players around him are awesome.

Also, LOL at the Eagles and (i) McNabb not knowing an NFL game could end in a tie and (ii) Andy Reid deciding to punt in OT on 4th and 1 with no timeouts and less than 2 minutes left. :applause:
 
[quote name='dafoomie']The Jets got real conservative on offense because they were afraid of Favre throwing a pick, you're right. Not sure why they went to the prevent defense with a decent amount of time left, though the coverage on Moss was good (borderline PI), he just made a great catch.[/quote]

That catch reminds me of the many times he did that back on the Vikings with the dragging the feet on the ground. Glad to see he hasn't forgotten that. That's one of the many reasons why Moss remains in my opinion one of the elite WRs.

This season is being hailed as proof of Belichick's status as a great coach. They said he couldn't win without Brady. They're not a great team, but 6-4 with two tough, close losses against the Jets and Colts is far better than anyone thought. Once again they're getting production out of guys nobody ever heard of, and Belichick's gameplan against the Colts was great.
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Except for calling that timeout on 4th and 1. Had Bill sat back and let the play go on the way it was going then the Pats would of gotten that first down. Oh well every coach has their moments of bad judgement which includes Bill Belichick.

Sammy Morris, LaMont Jordan, Laurence Mauroney, all injured. They've become a pretty good running team with Kevin Faulk and BenJarvus Green-Ellis, an undrafted rookie free agent who until the Jets game had 4 straight games with a TD. Morris saw limited action against the Jets, but the Pats were forced to throw the ball that game anyway since they were behind.
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I'm really let down by the lack of Green-Ellis (aka Law Firm) in the Jets game. Had he of been used given how well he can run I think that could of been a big help to the running game during the first half of the game. Just my 2 cents however.

Another undrafted rookie, Gary Guyton, has been a regular at linebacker. I don't think any team can lose a Brady and really succeed, and Matt Cassel has been a very pleasant surprise. A team with even an average starting QB would still be screwed if they lost him in the first game of the year.
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Cassel has made some great improvements this season for sure. I'm seeing many things such as reading the defense for instance that earlier in the season he was doing poor at but now has greatly improved. Yeah he's no Tom Brady but Matt Cassel has won a great deal of respect from me this season. If anything I hope the Pats keep him after this season. If anything at least the team will have a backup QB who knows the system well and can in an emergency fill in for Brady.
 
[quote name='javeryh'] Brady started out that way when his team around him wasn't that great but he has turned into a superstar because the players around him are awesome.
[/QUOTE]

You and DJsteel are nuts to think that Brady had great players around him when he was winning those Super Bowls. His WR's were probably 3-4th string Wide Outs on most other teams at best. None of them were really that good. Brady made everyone around him look good.

If what your saying is true then, why isn't Cassel having a great season?
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']You and DJsteel are nuts to think that Brady had great players around him when he was winning those Super Bowls. His WR's were probably 3-4th string Wide Outs on most other teams at best. None of them were really that good. Brady made everyone around him look good.

If what your saying is true then, why isn't Cassel having a great season?[/quote]

Well, the short answer is that Cassel hasn't played enough but if you look at the stats he is definitely trending upwards (38 fantasy points this week!) because he is getting more and more comfortable in the system that Belichik runs. Also, the players around Cassel are terible (really just old) compared to the ones Brady had surrounding him from 2001 to 2007.

The Patriots had the #1 defense in the league in 2003 and 2004. It sure makes the offense look good when you only need 17 points to win every game. They also had very high-powered offenses during their SB years too - I bet even the 11-5 SB team was in the top 6 or 7 that year. It doesn't all fall on the QB - look at Favre and Elway and Marino - they are all indisputably great QBs that played for some really bad teams. Brady has never played for a bad team. Even the one year they missed the playoffs they were still 9-7 and in first place but lost tiebreakers so they didn't get in. Don't get me wrong, Brady is great - he's a first ballot Hall of Famer but I think he is also very fortunate in that he plays for the right team at the right time with some brilliant coaches
 
[quote name='javeryh']Well, the short answer is that Cassel hasn't played enough but if you look at the stats he is definitely trending upwards (38 fantasy points this week!) because he is getting more and more comfortable in the system that Belichik runs. Also, the players around Cassel are terible (really just old) compared to the ones Brady had surrounding him from 2001 to 2007.

The Patriots had the #1 defense in the league in 2003 and 2004. It sure makes the offense look good when you only need 17 points to win every game. They also had very high-powered offenses during their SB years too - I bet even the 11-5 SB team was in the top 6 or 7 that year. It doesn't all fall on the QB - look at Favre and Elway and Marino - they are all indisputably great QBs that played for some really bad teams. Brady has never played for a bad team. Even the one year they missed the playoffs they were still 9-7 and in first place but lost tiebreakers so they didn't get in. Don't get me wrong, Brady is great - he's a first ballot Hall of Famer but I think he is also very fortunate in that he plays for the right team at the right time with some brilliant coaches[/QUOTE]

I like how you point out the players around Cassel being old/terrible but yet they are the same players from last year and only aged 1 year since they went 16-0 :whistle2:s
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']I like how you point out the players around Cassel being old/terrible but yet they are the same players from last year and only aged 1 year since they went 16-0 :whistle2:s[/quote]

They aren't the same though - especially in key positions. They lost all of their RBs (Green-Ellis is their #4, I think). Harrison is out for the year. Adalius Thomas just broke his arm. Asante Samuel is on the Eagles. And of course, Brady is a huge factor. I bet if you compare rosters from last year and this year there is a 30-40% change over. Also, being 1 year older does matter - all it takes is losing a 1/2 step...

I bet Cassel could have won 11 games if he was the QB on last year's team which is what he will probably end up with this year. I'm not disputing that Brady is awesome and I don't think he is overrated - I just believe that he is fortunate to be playing in the right system at the right time.
 
[quote name='javeryh']
I bet Cassel could have won 11 games if he was the QB on last year's team which is what he will probably end up with this year. I'm not disputing that Brady is awesome and I don't think he is overrated - I just believe that he is fortunate to be playing in the right system at the right time.[/QUOTE]

Ok well lets pop Eli Manning in the Same boat. He is very fortunate to be playing with a great team. Difference though is Brady is actually a great QB and Manning not so much.
 
Looks like the Bears are on their way to a typical season. We'll finish up right around 8-8. Right in the middle of the pack so we don't make the playoffs and we don't get a very good draft pick although 8-8 this year might just win the division.
 
[quote name='Azumangaman']The fact that you say Eli Manning isn't a great QB is mind boggling.[/QUOTE]

Whats mind boggling about it? Career QB rating is a 75.4. He has had subpar seasons for the past 4 years since he cried his way into the NFL. He is having a decent season this year. I guess you could call it a great season since it's the best of his career.

Also just because he won the Super Bowl and was named MVP ( They HAD to pick someone ) doesn't mean he's a great or even good QB. I'm guessing you also consider Trent Dilfer a great QB since he won a Super Bowl as well .
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']Whats mind boggling about it? Career QB rating is a 75.4. He has had subpar seasons for the past 4 years since he cried his way into the NFL. He is having a decent season this year. I guess you could call it a great season since it's the best of his career.

Also just because he won the Super Bowl and was named MVP ( They HAD to pick someone ) doesn't mean he's a great or even good QB. I'm guessing you also consider Trent Dilfer a great QB since he won a Super Bowl as well .[/quote]

C'mon - no one is going to argue that Eli is better than Brady but the Giants won the Super Bowl because of Eli and the Ravens won in spite of Dilfer. Totally different situations.

Go ahead and compare the careers of Peyton and Eli 4 and 1/2 years into their careers. Peyton is an undisputable Hall of Fame QB and Eli has had more success in the league at this point in his career.
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']Whats mind boggling about it? Career QB rating is a 75.4. He has had subpar seasons for the past 4 years since he cried his way into the NFL. He is having a decent season this year. I guess you could call it a great season since it's the best of his career.

Also just because he won the Super Bowl and was named MVP ( They HAD to pick someone ) doesn't mean he's a great or even good QB. I'm guessing you also consider Trent Dilfer a great QB since he won a Super Bowl as well .[/quote]


Most experts and Giants fans were pretty much ready to write him off as a bust at the end of last season. He got hot at the right time and made a nice Superbowl run. If you take his career as a whole so far I'd say in the last year or so he's moved up from a mediocre QB to an above average one.
 
[quote name='javeryh']C'mon - no one is going to argue that Eli is better than Brady but the Giants won the Super Bowl because of Eli and the Ravens won in spite of Dilfer. Totally different situations.

Go ahead and compare the careers of Peyton and Eli 4 and 1/2 years into their careers. Peyton is an undisputable Hall of Fame QB and Eli has had more success in the league at this point in his career.[/QUOTE]

Crazy Talk. Peyton has had the better career in those first 5 seasons. Just check out Peyton's stats bro. Eli has nothing on Peyton.

Also the Giants did not win the Super Bowl due to Eli. More so it was the Defense and the terrific catch by Tyree.
 
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[quote name='pimpinc333']You and DJsteel are nuts to think that Brady had great players around him when he was winning those Super Bowls. His WR's were probably 3-4th string Wide Outs on most other teams at best. None of them were really that good. Brady made everyone around him look good.

If what your saying is true then, why isn't Cassel having a great season?[/quote]


what did Dilfer or Brad figgin Johnson have around them to win their SBs?? The Pats won those Super Bowls because they had a good defense and a QB that didn't make mistakes. Tom Brady might be the most efficient QB in NFL history, but until last year that is allhe was efficient and didn't make mistakes.... except 2003..

btw... who has Cassel beat? The Pats have the easiest schedule in the league..
 
Come on cowboys, these next 6 straight games look conquerable, we need to get our heads straight and keep going. I want to see those penalties eliminated, I know we can stop doing those damn little things that costs us the game. Mr. Romo, you did it again, lets keep the momentum going and get a playoff spot. Go Cowboys!!!!!
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']Crazy Talk. Peyton has had the better career in those first 5 seasons. Just check out Peyton's stats bro. Eli has nothing on Peyton.

Also the Giants did not win the Super Bowl due to Eli. More so it was the Defense and the terrific catch by Tyree.[/quote]

Eli was Brady like in his efficiency.. yeah he wasn't a world beater.. but Tyree wouldn't have made that catch if it Eli didn't break the tackle to throw that pass and he did something that 15+ teams couldn't do. Beat the Pats.
 
[quote name='javeryh']C'mon - no one is going to argue that Eli is better than Brady but the Giants won the Super Bowl because of Eli and the Ravens won in spite of Dilfer. Totally different situations.[/QUOTE]
There were 2 or 3 easy interceptions that were simply dropped, on one play Eli simply turned his back to the line and ran away from pressure. Then he gets lucky with a desperation throw which was a great catch.

The Giants front 7 won that Superbowl, in spite of Eli. Brady's sprained ankle probably played into their favor, but those guys were simply outstanding.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']There were 2 or 3 easy interceptions that were simply dropped, on one play Eli simply turned his back to the line and ran away from pressure. Then he gets lucky with a desperation throw which was a great catch.

The Giants front 7 won that Superbowl, in spite of Eli. Brady's sprained ankle probably played into their favor, but those guys were simply outstanding.[/QUOTE]

I remember 1 or 2 plays before the game winning Catch by Tyree where Eli tosses toward the sideline and A.Samuel misses an easy easy easy INT. Man did they Giants catch a big break there.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Wide right. :cool:[/quote]

:cry::cry::bomb::bomb::cold::cold:

God i spoke too soon about Buffalo. I guess i prejudged them way too early...they cant even beat the browns let alone any AFC East opponent. Geez, they suck and now i had to hear Wide Right again..atleast Edwards kept us in there even though he screwed up this first qtr. He drove us there but left it in the kicker's foot and he missed. I wish we had Steve Christie back. He's automatic on clutch kicks. Atleast i know the Bills are 1 to 2 playmakers away from being good.

anyway funny note: after Dick Jauron's 2 year extension 0-4..before 2-yr 5-1. as tim Graham said. "just saying"

As for the Eli debate,

I think Manning is a great QB. it takes some time to get good and lets face it, the Giants werent good when Eli started there. They sucked. With good management, they built an offense around him and now he finally gets to be efficeient. Right now, he has the best 2 minute drill in football. Ive never seen any QB since Elway or Peyton be able to run a 2 minute drill like he can. he just seems automatic when it hits that point. Eli's stats may not say he is good, but he is. The kid is showing all the tangibles that labels him as a Great. He is making smart decisions and nothing seems to rattle him anymore. he throws in INT, and than comes back witha 70 yd drive ending with a passing TD. Nothing phases him anymore.

Pimpininc,
Yeah that Superbowl catch by tyree was amazing but dont forget that Eli had tons of patriots hands on him and he still got out of being sacked, than chucked to Tyree who completed it. The defense sure kept the G-men in there but Eli was clutch when they needed him the most.Also he made the 42 yard throw to Boss before that to give them the chance to make that play. All i know is Eli has arrived and this is thanks to ernie accorsi who *cough* traded for John Elway as the broncos GM.
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']I remember 1 or 2 plays before the game winning Catch by Tyree where Eli tosses toward the sideline and A.Samuel misses an easy easy easy INT. Man did they Giants catch a big break there.[/quote]


splitting hairs here guys.. there were plenty of times where the Pats should have or could have lost last year...hell in the Chargers game (AFC Championship game). I think there were 1-2 dropped ints.. It's called luck
 
[quote name='integralsmatic']
Pimpininc,
Yeah that Superbowl catch by tyree was amazing but dont forget that Eli had tons of patriots hands on him and he still got out of being sacked, than chucked to Tyree who completed it. [/quote]


The funny thing about that is....just 1 year later. 1 year. And that is now considered a fucking sack.

Sacks = grabbing the QB for more than 1 second.

Congrats NFL you have now closed the gap on the NBA for the most inconsistent rules of all time.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']The funny thing about that is....just 1 year later. 1 year. And that is now considered a fucking sack.

Sacks = grabbing the QB for more than 1 second.

Congrats NFL you have now closed the gap on the NBA for the most inconsistent rules of all time.[/quote]


tuck rule... pass interference.. that is the problem with the NFL.. a lot of gray, they need to make more rules black and white.. every sport has gray rules that are open for interpretation and it makes for crappy calls. The NBA rules just interpret that superstars don't get called.
 
Yeah all sports have gray area but the real problem is the leaders of both sports.

Roger Gidell (sp dont feel like looking it up) and David Stern have been pushing for years to make both their sports good ol' family entertainment. They are trading the heart of both their sports for dollar signs as much as possiable. Both wanting these super high scoring games so they strip down the defense with their rule changes.

Its hard to have a consistent set of rules when you change 10 of them a year.

No pushing, no talking, no contact, no staring guys. Please playing your potions is less imporant to making it family friendly. As a result NFL defenders have no idea what the hell is going on and what can they can or can not do. As the same with NBA games. Guys basically have to just let people blow past them beacuse god knows playing defense will get you fouled out in a heartbeat.


I understand rule changes to make a game safer but they are completely over stepping their bounds. They change rules seemingly just for the sake of changing them. As much as I hate refs I can understand how they blow calls all the time.



EDIT: Really quick, as much as I feel for defenders and how they cant really do their job anymore. fuck guys like Roy Williams bitch ass. Those fake "hard hitting" DB's where most of their hits are actually illegal contact. Guys coming through putting their helmets on the chin of a WR who isnt even looking...those guys can go to hell.

And on that note lets watch one of the greatest "CLEAN" hitters of all time Brian Dawkins suplex a guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrLo-4DGV0Y&NR=1
 
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By the way anyone got a link to where I can see a video of the highlights for this season?

The NBA does it all the time but the NFL rarely does.

Hard to catch up on all the games with spending a lot of time doing so.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']There were 2 or 3 easy interceptions that were simply dropped, on one play Eli simply turned his back to the line and ran away from pressure. Then he gets lucky with a desperation throw which was a great catch.

The Giants front 7 won that Superbowl, in spite of Eli. Brady's sprained ankle probably played into their favor, but those guys were simply outstanding.[/quote]

The Giants defense was great - no doubt about it. If they gave MVPs to groups then they definitely deserved it. Eli played well though (19/34 255 yds; 2 TD; 1 INT) - better than the Golden Boy even. That Asante Samuel "dropped" INT wasn't an easy catch - he had to jump near the sideline (it was over his head) and worry about keeping his feet in bounds. Should he have caught it? Maybe - but I don't think it was an easy play. There are 5-7 plays in every game which, if they went the other way, affect the outcome.

I also don't understand how Eli evading the pass rush wasn't a great play on his end. Why did Tyree make a great catch? Wasn't he just lucky Harrison didn't swat the ball away? Wasn't he just lucky the nose of the ball never hit the ground?

Also, saying Brady's ankle affected his play is just making excuses. He threw a 70 yard bomb to Randy Moss on the last drive - right on the money. The guy is just sick. The Patroits got beat because the Giants played a complete game on both sides of the ball and made plays when it mattered.
 
[quote name='javeryh']The Giants defense was great - no doubt about it. If they gave MVPs to groups then they definitely deserved it. Eli played well though (19/34 255 yds; 2 TD; 1 INT) - better than the Golden Boy even. That Asante Samuel "dropped" INT wasn't an easy catch - he had to jump near the sideline (it was over his head) and worry about keeping his feet in bounds. Should he have caught it? Maybe - but I don't think it was an easy play. There are 5-7 plays in every game which, if they went the other way, affect the outcome.

I also don't understand how Eli evading the pass rush wasn't a great play on his end. Why did Tyree make a great catch? Wasn't he just lucky Harrison didn't swat the ball away? Wasn't he just lucky the nose of the ball never hit the ground?

Also, saying Brady's ankle affected his play is just making excuses. He threw a 70 yard bomb to Randy Moss on the last drive - right on the money. The guy is just sick. The Patroits got beat because the Giants played a complete game on both sides of the ball and made plays when it mattered.[/quote]


I hate Eli.....actually its well known that I hate the entire Manning family. But I have to give it to him and the Giants. It was simply a good play and one of many in that game.

As sports fans we live in the past WAY to often.

The Pats should have gotten the damn sack they had about 10 chances in that one play. So matter what its their fault that they lost.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']As sports fans we live in the past WAY to often. [/quote]

Of course we do - who the hell wants to live in a world where the Phillies are world champs?
 
[quote name='javeryh']The Giants defense was great - no doubt about it. If they gave MVPs to groups then they definitely deserved it. Eli played well though (19/34 255 yds; 2 TD; 1 INT) - better than the Golden Boy even. That Asante Samuel "dropped" INT wasn't an easy catch - he had to jump near the sideline (it was over his head) and worry about keeping his feet in bounds. Should he have caught it? Maybe - but I don't think it was an easy play. There are 5-7 plays in every game which, if they went the other way, affect the outcome.


I also don't understand how Eli evading the pass rush wasn't a great play on his end. Why did Tyree make a great catch? Wasn't he just lucky Harrison didn't swat the ball away? Wasn't he just lucky the nose of the ball never hit the ground?

Also, saying Brady's ankle affected his play is just making excuses. He threw a 70 yard bomb to Randy Moss on the last drive - right on the money. The guy is just sick. The Patroits got beat because the Giants played a complete game on both sides of the ball and made plays when it mattered.[/QUOTE]

If you say the play by Tyree was just luck then Eli escaping the sack was pure luck as well. 2 plays prior Eli got lucky when Samual missed that easy INT. You can call luck on just about everything if we go by what you are saying.

EDIT: Yes Samual should have had that INT. For one of the best DB's in the league that shit should have been money for him. Eli just got lucky and it went right through Samual's hands. ;)
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']If you say the play by Tyree was just luck then Eli escaping the sack was pure luck as well. 2 plays prior Eli got lucky when Samual missed that easy INT. You can call luck on just about everything if we go by what you are saying.

EDIT: Yes Samual should have had that INT. For one of the best DB's in the league that shit should have been money for him. Eli just got lucky and it went right through Samual's hands. ;)[/quote]


Name me a 'Patriots Superstar' that left the Pats and showed us he deserved the money. The Patriots have showed us the past 8 or 9 seasons give or take one or two, that they are good team, not a team full of good individuals, which they are transitioning into.
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']If you say the play by Tyree was just luck then Eli escaping the sack was pure luck as well. 2 plays prior Eli got lucky when Samual missed that easy INT. You can call luck on just about everything if we go by what you are saying.[/quote]

That's my point. I think it was a great play on both ends (probably the greatest in Super Bowl history given the circumstances not only in the game but also that the Pats were on the verge of 19-0) so saying Eli was lucky but Tyree wasn't doesn't make any sense to me. They both got it done.
 
I don't recognize this Braylon Edwards. He's holding on to the passes that are coming his way.

Edit: Nevermind. He's back in form as the game winds down.
 
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[quote name='javeryh']The Giants defense was great - no doubt about it. If they gave MVPs to groups then they definitely deserved it. Eli played well though (19/34 255 yds; 2 TD; 1 INT) - better than the Golden Boy even. That Asante Samuel "dropped" INT wasn't an easy catch - he had to jump near the sideline (it was over his head) and worry about keeping his feet in bounds. Should he have caught it? Maybe - but I don't think it was an easy play. There are 5-7 plays in every game which, if they went the other way, affect the outcome.

I also don't understand how Eli evading the pass rush wasn't a great play on his end. Why did Tyree make a great catch? Wasn't he just lucky Harrison didn't swat the ball away? Wasn't he just lucky the nose of the ball never hit the ground?

Also, saying Brady's ankle affected his play is just making excuses. He threw a 70 yard bomb to Randy Moss on the last drive - right on the money. The guy is just sick. The Patroits got beat because the Giants played a complete game on both sides of the ball and made plays when it mattered.[/QUOTE]
Eli evading to make the throw was luck because the Patriot in the best position to make the tackle (Seymour) was taken out by his own teammate on the play. It wasn't even a great pass, he kind of just threw it up for grabs.

The catch was a great play by Tyree because he made a great play. Harrison did his job on the play, and Tyree took a bad throw and came down with it. You can't give Eli credit for two defenders taking each other out.

And yes, Brady's ankle injury was a major factor. It wasn't his throws that were affected the most, it was his mobility, his ability to evade defenders and make the throw. His lack of mobility was a serious problem considering the pressure the Giants had on him the entire game.
 
[quote name='DT778']There is going to be an upset in Dallas today.[/quote]

Really?

TO has been murdering it today. I hope he continues to play like this the rest of the year. They finally started getting him the damn ball and the offense finally is starting to live up to its potential.
 
This has nothing to do with anything but you know what I miss about the NFL? I miss when knocking the ball away after a catch with a huge hit was a viable tactic.

Guys like the old (young) Ray Lewis,Brian Dawkins, Brian Urlacher, Sean Taylor, Bob Sanders. People who would kill guys on a fade route or running a stretch play.

Seems like there so little new hard hitters now a days. P-Willis and Shawn Merriman come to mind but not to many other young guys. I remember back in the day when every game had at least 4 huge hits.

I just want a more physically game, I miss smash mouth football. This family friendly please dont hit the QB to hard is getting out of hand.
 
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