2008 NFL Season Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
[quote name='billyrox']sproles w/ another huge run[/QUOTE]

Sproles was beast at K-State and he will get PAID in the off-season by the Chargers or another team. I would not be shocked to see the Chargers trade LT to keep Sproles and get draft picks in return.
 
[quote name='js1']Sproles was beast at K-State and he will get PAID in the off-season by the Chargers or another team. I would not be shocked to see the Chargers trade LT to keep Sproles and get draft picks in return.[/quote]

Just over the last month, Sproles jerseys have been popping up all over SD. Everyone is wearing one.
 
[quote name='Layziebones']I am going to bypass your little I got the last word thing and say I do not think people that are richer shouldn't be accountable for their actions. They should, but being a jerk doesn't really constitute anything but being a jerk. Regardless of whether he may be a jerk, isn't just as "douche" to constantly call someone a jerk because you have seen him play a couple games and maybe heard something from someone who heard from someone who saw something on tv from someone that saw Rivers? It goes both ways.[/quote]

I dont need the last word, you can have it. I was simply saying I dont plan on arguing with you. Thats a very sound point but he is a bitch because of his on field attitude towards the fans and other players. Things I have seen with my own eyes. Thats all man.

You got your word in, I got mine lets consider this over, or you can have another go if you would like.

Js1, it has been a pleasure man.
 
[quote name='js1']Sproles was beast at K-State and he will get PAID in the off-season by the Chargers or another team. I would not be shocked to see the Chargers trade LT to keep Sproles and get draft picks in return.[/quote]

I bet either 1 of the following wont be there next year, Sproles, Gates or V. Jackson.

The Chargers are so in love with LDT that they will not let him go and will not split time with any other back. It also seems like they dont like to pay people when its their due.

I.E Michael Turner.


I am leaning towards Sproles either not being there or hopefully them letting go one of the bigger names to keep him.


Oh god....if the Titans could get Sproles in the off season? Jizz in my pants!
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']I bet either 1 of the following wont be there next year, Sproles, Gates or V. Jackson.

The Chargers are so in love with LDT that they will not let him go and will not split time with any other back. It also seems like they dont like to pay people when its their due.

I.E Michael Turner.


I am leaning towards Sproles either not being there or hopefully them letting go one of the bigger names to keep him.


Oh god....if the Titans could get Sproles in the off season? Jizz in my pants![/QUOTE]

If anything I would think that the Turner situation + LT being hurt the last two years in the playoffs showed SD that the team might have to look either towards a two back system with Sproles getting WAY more playing time. Or watching him go Warrick Dunn/Barry Sanders style on the NFL.

What would the Titans do 2 and 1/2 RB's? White is only good near the goal line, sucks otherwise but I wouldn't be surprised to see C.J. lead the NFL in rushing next season. Depends on the Titans schedule. I don't know who I would let go out of the three, maybe V. Jackson because he tends to disappear in big games. But both Gates and LT have been slowed by injuries the past two seasons. The Chargers I believe NEED a big play WR.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']I Oh god....if the Titans could get Sproles in the off season? Jizz in my pants![/quote]

How 'bout a QB and receivers who don't suck? BTW, do you want Drew Bennett back? I'm sick of him...

The Titans already have 2 good RBs...
 
Shit, the Broncos hired Josh McDaniels. Can't blame him for taking it, its a great job.

Maybe we can still get Charlie Weis fired from Notre Dame.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Shit, the Broncos hired Josh McDaniels. Can't blame him for taking it, its a great job.

Maybe we can still get Charlie Weis fired from Notre Dame.[/QUOTE]

McDaniels is great O-coordinator, we will see what he does with the Broncos..
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Shit, the Broncos hired Josh McDaniels. Can't blame him for taking it, its a great job.

Maybe we can still get Charlie Weis fired from Notre Dame.[/quote]

I think the only reason Charlie didn't get fired this year was because the alumni refused to pay the buyout after he signed that huge new contract last year. He temporarily saved his ass by ending ND's bowl drought with an impressive win even if it was against a mediocre Hawaii team.

He's going to need at least an 8 win season next year to keep his job IMHO.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']I actually agree with you Kingbroly, go for it waste 8 more seconds make sure you dont turn it over and let the G-men go 95 yards.


WOW ELI THROWS AN INT!


Wait, Wait, Wait, So where the fuck are those people who came into this thread saying basically that Eli is a Hall of Fame QB? Eli showed exactly what he is before he rode his defense to a superbowl. He is a average QB that hope to god his defense and WR can make amazing plays to bail him out.

Now that I think about it he reminds me greatly of Dante Culpepper and how Randy Moss made him look amazing all the time. Without Plex making crazy amounts of plays Eli seems lost.


EDIT: HE ALMOST THREW ANOTHER ONE![/quote]

I'm not going to argue that Eli is a great quarterback but I will contend he is above average. I will also say that arguing that Eli rode on the coattails of plax is simply erroneous in my opinion. He connected with his receivers with great precision I would say. Granted, Eli did play like absolute garbage in today's game. However, he has done well in games without Plax and he has done so with enough consistency that I'm inclined to believe he is at least a little above average.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
White sucks as as a RB, guy is horrid.

What we really need is a big play WR and TE. Hell a franchise QB wouldnt hurt either.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']White sucks as as a RB, guy is horrid.

What we really need is a big play WR and TE. Hell a franchise QB wouldnt hurt either.[/QUOTE]

I did not follow the Titans too much early in the season what happen to Vince Young?
 
It'sMagneto;5357269]I'm not going to argue that Eli is a great quarterback but I will contend he is above average. I will also say that arguing that Eli rode on the coattails of plax is simply erroneous in my opinion. He connected with his receivers with great precision I would say. Granted said:
Objectively speaking, he is average.

The average QB rating for the past few years has been ~80 (range 78-83). Eli's career QB rating is 76.1. 2008 was his best year, with a rating of 86.4 (last year he was at 73.9).

By statistics, he is merely average...

In contrast, his brother is perhaps the best regular season QB in the history of the game... but he reverts to being very average in the postseason...
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='js1']I did not follow the Titans too much early in the season what happen to Vince Young?[/QUOTE]

Got hurt, threatened to kill himself according to cops, etc. etc.

Then never played as Collins was playing so well and the coaches probably wanted him to focus on getting his shit straight before putting him back on the field.
 
(in Sylvester Stallone's voice) EEEEEEEELLLLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

QBs can have bad games. I think he is an "elite" QB because he's a winner, but he's not the cream of the crop.

Based on previous accomplishments and this last season, if I had a QB list, then it would look like this:

1A. Brady
1B. P-Manning
3. Brees
4. Roethlisberger
5. Rivers
6. E-Manning
7. McNabb
8. Cutler
9. Warner
10. Aaron Rodgers - edited
11A. Ryan
11B. Flacco

After that, who cares ... I don't think I left anybody off my list.

I'm hoping the crappy Cards make it to the SB against the Steelers. Best defense (will be settled in the Ravens game) Vs. Best Passing Offense (debatable). I would put my money on the Steelers / Ravens destroying Arizona or squeaking out a close one against the Eagles. McNabb will falter in the big game.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='BigT']Just like you can't expect to win anything with Kerry Collins as your QB...
You can't expect to win anything with Norv Turner as your coach![/QUOTE]

Jesus, lay off Collins already. He played well, it was the other guys that fumble the ball in the red zone that costed them the game. His stats in the game are better than McNabb and he had to play through a better pass defense team.
 
[quote name='opportunity777'](in Sylvester Stallone's voice) EEEEEEEELLLLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

QBs can have bad games. I think he is an "elite" QB because he's a winner, but he's not the cream of the crop.

Based on previous accomplishments and this last season, if I had a QB list, then it would look like this:

1A. Brady
1B. P-Manning
3. Brees
4. Roethlisberger
5. Rivers
6. E-Manning
7. McNabb
8. Cutler
9. Warner
10A. Ryan
10B. Flacco

After that, who cares ... I don't think I left anybody off my list.

I'm hoping the crappy Cards make it to the SB against the Steelers. Best defense (will be settled in the Ravens game) Vs. Best Passing Offense (debatable). I would put my money on the Steelers / Ravens destroying Arizona or squeaking out a close one against the Eagles. McNabb will falter in the big game.[/quote]

I'm not really gonna worry about the order of your list, but I'd be real hesitant to put Eli that high as well as include 2 rookies in the top 10. Flacco, especially, should drop. But I don't really know exactly how you're rating each QB, so I can't really comment on how you have them ranked. I think you should consider Carson Palmer and Matt Hasselbeck, especially ahead of the rookies. Aaron Rodgers had a really good year also. We'll have to wait and see how he pans out.
 
[quote name='primetime']I'm not really gonna worry about the order of your list, but I'd be real hesitant to put Eli that high as well as include 2 rookies in the top 10. Flacco, especially, should drop. But I don't really know exactly how you're rating each QB, so I can't really comment on how you have them ranked. I think you should consider Carson Palmer and Matt Hasselbeck, especially ahead of the rookies. Aaron Rodgers had a really good year also. We'll have to wait and see how he pans out.[/QUOTE]

I mostly used heuristics to make the list on the fly. I did not go into any detail because I am lazy. I do have specific criteria, and this list was already compiled in my head before I wrote it down.

I agree with you about Aaron Rodgers. He should have been on the list. I should have checked ESPN or Fox Sports to view every QB in the league. Although, I did watch a lot of his games, and I don't feel comfortable with him in "clutch" situations.

I left off both Carson and Matt because they might be washed up. You must have not noticed that I wrote, "Based on previous accomplishments and this last season (...)." Part of my evaluation for each QB was whether I would want him to be at the helm of my team's offense. I wouldn't mind any of those QB's on the list. Also, I intentionally left off Tony Romo because he's just not as good as the other QB's on the list (unless you want to debate him vs. Ryan, Flacco or Rodgers).
 
[quote name='opportunity777']I mostly used heuristics to make the list on the fly. I did not go into any detail because I am lazy. I do have specific criteria, and this list was already compiled in my head before I wrote it down.

I agree with you about Aaron Rodgers. He should have been on the list. I should have checked ESPN or Fox Sports to view every QB in the league. Although, I did watch a lot of his games, and I don't feel comfortable with him in "clutch" situations.

I left off both Carson and Matt because they might be washed up. You must have not noticed that I wrote, "Based on previous accomplishments and this last season (...)." Part of my evaluation for each QB was whether I would want him to be at the helm of my team's offense. I wouldn't mind any of those QB's on the list.[/quote]

Yeah, that's cool. I was never too high on Carson, but he was in conversations about the top 3 QBs in the league a couple years back. I think that knee injury really set him back, however.
 
[quote name='primetime']Yeah, that's cool. I was never too high on Carson, but he was in conversations about the top 3 QBs in the league a couple years back. I think that knee injury really set him back, however.[/QUOTE]

Before the knee injury, he was terrific. Although, I believe he had decent stats last year (??? -- too lazy to look up).

He needs to go to another team. The Bengals and Lions are where great players go to perish.
 
[quote name='opportunity777']Before the knee injury, he was terrific. Although, I believe he had decent stats last year (??? -- too lazy to look up).

He needs to go to another team. The Bengals and Lions are where great players go to perish.[/QUOTE]

Palmer is still a great QB. He has a rocket of arm. The Bungels are not commited to winning. They have more arressted players than actual injured players. Locker has to change and it could or should be the coach that needs change.
 
[quote name='opportunity777'](in Sylvester Stallone's voice)
Based on previous accomplishments and this last season, if I had a QB list, then it would look like this:

1A. Brady
1B. P-Manning
3. Brees
4. Roethlisberger
5. Rivers
6. E-Manning
7. McNabb
8. Cutler
9. Warner
10. Aaron Rodgers - edited
11A. Ryan
11B. Flacco
[/quote]

Hmmm... So in your mind Cutler, McNabb, E-Manning, and Roethlisberger are better than Warner????
What has Cutler ever done? He's probably better than E-Manning, but he's otherwise unspectacular.
McNabb has had one elite season in his career and has otherwise been average to above average... his career passer rating isn't close to Warner's and he doesn't approach him in terms of accuracy.
E. Manning has been addressed before: QB rating in the mid 70s vs. QB rating in the mid 90s...
Roethlisberger: was incredible in 2007 but pretty average last year... I'd rank him tied with Warner and ahead of McNabb, E. Manning, and Cutler.
 
[quote name='opportunity777'](in Sylvester Stallone's voice) EEEEEEEELLLLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!

QBs can have bad games. I think he is an "elite" QB because he's a winner, but he's not the cream of the crop.

Based on previous accomplishments and this last season, if I had a QB list, then it would look like this:

1A. Brady
1B. P-Manning
3. Brees
4. Roethlisberger
5. Rivers
6. E-Manning
7. McNabb
8. Cutler
9. Warner
10. Aaron Rodgers - edited
11A. Ryan
11B. Flacco

After that, who cares ... I don't think I left anybody off my list.

I'm hoping the crappy Cards make it to the SB against the Steelers. Best defense (will be settled in the Ravens game) Vs. Best Passing Offense (debatable). I would put my money on the Steelers / Ravens destroying Arizona or squeaking out a close one against the Eagles. McNabb will falter in the big game.[/QUOTE]

I know this list is just your opinion but I see others chiming in about where to rank people. Warner should be a lot higher if you are taking past accomplishments. 2 Time NFL MVP and Super Bowl Champion. That automatically beats out 3/4 of the list right there.

Bree's is overrated. He really has no accomplishments other then he threw for 5000 + yards because they didn't have a running game. They threw the ball all the time.

Not sure how Culter made the list. Without a great WR in Marshall, Culter's stats would be no where as sub decent as they are now.
 
I wanna thank *smirk* my hometown team Dallas (and i know there were some other helpers) for potentially putting the Eagles in the SB. Even though ive been on opposing sides of them for many, many years, i appreciate a team that doesnt give up, just like i loved the Gmen last year. I admire their determination, and the other elements, that define a real team... Im looking forward to both the NFC and AFC championships, some very tough, determined teams!
 
I know that list was your opinion and you made it up on the fly but damn.

I guess it depends on how you came up with that list but it just seems like you picked all the people you knew of. If you are going by just stats then I can understand but still disagree but if you are going by actually accomplishments then that list is just plain bad.

Warner should be way higher. Rivers, Cutler, Rodgers, Brees, those guys shouldnt even be on the list or at the very most at the bottom. What the hell has anyone of those guys ever actually done? Rivers barely got his team into the play offs on a technicality even while having a HOF RB, Elite TE, Elite 2nd string back and 5 Elite denfesive players. Culter hasnt won anything nor will he ever and Brees was aided by the fact that all NO does is throw. Hell one one point in the last couple years Jon Kitna of the Lions had top 3 passing yards but that doesnt mean he should be on any list just means that the team running game sucks that much.

Also, how is McNabb lower than Brees and River when he is the only one out of the 3 to even get to superbowl?

One more thing, I am really sick of people rating Brady and Manning the same when its VERY CLEAR Brady is just a better QB. Brady has 3 SB rings and 2 SB MVP awards, Manning has 1 SB ring and 1 MVP award that he just got 2 years ago and Manning choked hard core in every other play off. Come on now, its like saying Kevin Garnet is the same as Michael Jordan both damn good players but one clearly has more going for him.

Again, I guess its just how you ranked them but I wouldnt agree with anything on that list because how can you rank people who havent even come close to sniffing a superbowl in front of people who have?
 
Warner is getting too much credit.. just my opinion, but he seems to only do really good with having good to great WRs and a good offensive minded coach. Whisenhunt will always built the playbook around the what the team flourishes with.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']Warner is getting too much credit.. just my opinion, but he seems to only do really good with having good to great WRs and a good offensive minded coach. Whisenhunt will always built the playbook around the what the team flourishes with.[/QUOTE]

I think you're right. It really is just the weapons and the system. That's why Leinert is the starter.
 
I think I'm going to be sick.

Also, I was 0-4 with my picks this weekend - that's harder than going 4-0! I think for the first time in my 30+ years of watching football I'm not going to watch anything else this season.
 
I dont see how you can say its system when he has a SB ring and MVP honors with another team.

He has the same awards as Peyton Manning does.....1 SB and a couple MVP honors although I think Warner has more SB mvp.

This is why I only go by SB MVP and SB rings, to me that is the barometer to things like system, WR and all that other Jazz.

I guess what it boils down to for me is that Peyton Manning must be VASTLY over rated because there has been many people who have done as much as he has in regards to post season (you know the part of the season that actually matters) yet people still claim he is a vast superior QB.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']Warner is getting too much credit.. just my opinion, but he seems to only do really good with having good to great WRs and a good offensive minded coach. Whisenhunt will always built the playbook around the what the team flourishes with.[/QUOTE]

A QB will only be good as his WR's though. Sure Warner has had the luxery of passing to some of the NFL's best WR's in his time ( Issac Bruce, Tory Holt, Az Hakim, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Steve Breaston ) but that shouldn't take anything away from how accurate of a passer he is and how great of an arm he has.

Besides Tom Brady ( he had shit for WR's when they won the super bowl years back ) most QB's need a great WR to compliment them. Just like Peyton Manning with Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.

Also when I was watching the Arizona game. I found out Boldin, Fitz, and Breaston all had 1000 yards receiving. Has this be done before?
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']I dont see how you can say its system when he has a SB ring and MVP honors with another team.

He has the same awards as Peyton Manning does.....1 SB and a couple MVP honors although I think Warner has more SB mvp.

This is why I only go by SB MVP and SB rings, to me that is the barometer to things like system, WR and all that other Jazz.

I guess what it boils down to for me is that Peyton Manning must be VASTLY over rated because there has been many people who have done as much as he has in regards to post season (you know the part of the season that actually matters) yet people still claim he is a vast superior QB.[/QUOTE]

I think Peyton has 1 Super Bowl Victory and a 3 time NFL MVP ( Not sure how he won it this year )

Warner has 1 Super Bowl Victory and 2 Time NFL MVP. He has been to the Super Bowl more times then Peyton though.
 
[quote name='gregthomas77']I think you're right. It really is just the weapons and the system. That's why Leinert is the starter.[/quote]

heh.. right.. Warner is a great QB that is why he hasn't started a full season since the Rams... Listen.. Warner is a decent QB.. being a great qb is looking beyond the stats..
 
:lol:

My little list sparked a bit of debate. I'm busy, a little too lazy to explain myself and I still wouldn't change the order of my list, but I think people have posted some interesting points.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='DJSteel']heh.. right.. Warner is a great QB that is why he hasn't started a full season since the Rams... Listen.. Warner is a decent QB.. being a great qb is looking beyond the stats..[/quote]


Well the problem you run into is that everyone wants it both ways.

Why is Warner not a great QB but someone like Eli is? Saying you have to look beyond stats is easy but at some point you are going to have to present some tangible facts that make a player good or not. The ultimate goal of football is to win a SB something Kurt has been to multiple time and have won and been an MVP for.

So if Warner is only "decent" even after winning a SB and MVP honors then leading the Rams to another what does that say about Culter, Rodgers, Rivers, Brees, Palmer, Romo and the handful of other QB that are considered good?

I just hate how people down grade winning the superbowl. Screw stats, screw awards, screw everything the 1 goal of a NFL team is not to produce the Rookie of the year or the MVP of the League but to win a Superbowl, thats it all the rest is just fan service. Thats why they say the Play offs are a "new season" because its not about the fans and putting butts in the seat, its about bringing your best players and fighting a way to the superbowl.

So whats your standard DJ? I understand looking beyond the stats at the guys who can just get it done and win games but winning just "games" means nothing if its not the Superbowl. That was the biggest knock on Peyton was that he just won game and couldnt get to the Superbowl.

I will put it this way, though it would have killed me to do so and to every actually say it if Rex Grossman would have won the Superbowl I would have to upgrade him from "horrid ass bum who should have never played a NFL game," to at least average. Because you simply cant take a superbowl ring away from someone no matter how bad they are they still found a way to get one and you have to give them some type of credit for it.


Actually come to think of it, Eli is basically just a Rex Grossman that actually won the superbowl. :whistle2:#

EDIT: I guess I would say that Kurt Warner is "sporadic," when he is on he is indeed a great QB without a doubt but when he is off he goes into being completely average. But that still doesnt take away that he went to 2 superbowls winning one and getting MVP honors. Thats something 80% of the leagues hasnt done.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Well the problem you run into is that everyone wants it both ways.

Why is Warner not a great QB but someone like Eli is? Saying you have to look beyond stats is easy but at some point you are going to have to present some tangible facts that make a player good or not. The ultimate goal of football is to win a SB something Kurt has been to multiple time and have won and been an MVP for.

So if Warner is only "decent" even after winning a SB and MVP honors then leading the Rams to another what does that say about Culter, Rodgers, Rivers, Brees, Palmer, Romo and the handful of other QB that are considered good?

I just hate how people down grade winning the superbowl. Screw stats, screw awards, screw everything the 1 goal of a NFL team is not to produce the Rookie of the year or the MVP of the League but to win a Superbowl, thats it all the rest is just fan service. Thats why they say the Play offs are a "new season" because its not about the fans and putting butts in the seat, its about bringing your best players and fighting a way to the superbowl.

So whats your standard DJ? I understand looking beyond the stats at the guys who can just get it done and win games but winning just "games" means nothing if its not the Superbowl. That was the biggest knock on Peyton was that he just won game and couldnt get to the Superbowl.

I will put it this way, though it would have killed me to do so and to every actually say it if Rex Grossman would have won the Superbowl I would have to upgrade him from "horrid ass bum who should have never played a NFL game," to at least average. Because you simply cant take a superbowl ring away from someone no matter how bad they are they still found a way to get one and you have to give them some type of credit for it.


Actually come to think of it, Eli is basically just a Rex Grossman that actually won the superbowl. :whistle2:#

EDIT: I guess I would say that Kurt Warner is "sporadic," when he is on he is indeed a great QB without a doubt but when he is off he goes into being completely average. But that still doesnt take away that he went to 2 superbowls winning one and getting MVP honors. Thats something 80% of the leagues hasnt done.[/QUOTE]

You can add Rothlisberger in there as well. He was basically another Eli Manning. Rode his Defense to the Super Bowl.

If he claims Warner is just decent then Rothlisberger will always be a step under Warner. Both have SB victories but Warner has 2 NFL MVP's. Thats something Ben will never win. Why? He chokes in big games.
 
Its a team game...so how can you not judge a QB by what he is surrounded by?

Look at Cassell and how well he performed in the Patriots system. Does this discredit him because he was placed into a team that went 18-1 the season before? On the flipside does it discredit Brady by having a QB that hadnt started since high school take the team 11-5 when they had a much weaker defense than the year he went 18-1?

You cant discredit a QB because of good team, the difference between a good QB and a great QB is that a great QB can max the potential of a great WR. Kurt Warner does this, and this is why the cardinals are so far in the playoffs regardless of record.

Look at TO during the weeks romo was injured. Look at Randy Moss while on the raiders or Calvin Johnson from the 0-16 lions. Great WR cant make a poor team good. Look at Peyton when Harrison was injured or Eli without Burress, Superbowl MVPs looking pretty average if you ask me.
 
[quote name='Illini Jeeper']FoxSports is reporting Tony Dungy will be stepping down today. A truly sad day for the NFL :([/QUOTE]

confirmed as well on Sirius NFL Radio.

Truly sad day for the NFL big time.
 
Dungy can suck it. If he doesn't want to be a head coach anymore I'll take his job.

OK, I'm just bitter right now - he was good enough to win a Super Bowl but I never felt like he was maximizing his roster. He had great players for a number of years - someone like Parcells or Belichik would have won multiple titles with that crew. Dungy seems like a nice guy though for sure.
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']You can add Rothlisberger in there as well. He was basically another Eli Manning. Rode his Defense to the Super Bowl.

If he claims Warner is just decent then Rothlisberger will always be a step under Warner. Both have SB victories but Warner has 2 NFL MVP's. Thats something Ben will never win. Why? He chokes in big games.[/quote]

As much as I hate to say it I agree with this. I love Big Ben but until he gets back to a superbowl he is stuck in that zone...better than most but still not great in over all rankings. But he is one of the better QB in regards to skill though putting him above Eli in my opinion.

[quote name='Weedy649']Its a team game...so how can you not judge a QB by what he is surrounded by?

Look at Cassell and how well he performed in the Patriots system. Does this discredit him because he was placed into a team that went 18-1 the season before? On the flipside does it discredit Brady by having a QB that hadnt started since high school take the team 11-5 when they had a much weaker defense than the year he went 18-1?

You cant discredit a QB because of good team, the difference between a good QB and a great QB is that a great QB can max the potential of a great WR. Kurt Warner does this, and this is why the cardinals are so far in the playoffs regardless of record.

Look at TO during the weeks romo was injured. Look at Randy Moss while on the raiders or Calvin Johnson from the 0-16 lions. Great WR cant make a poor team good. Look at Peyton when Harrison was injured or Eli without Burress, Superbowl MVPs looking pretty average if you ask me.[/quote]

In my opinion you are mixing up 2 different things. There is player skill...and then the overall ranking of a player. Most people try to combine the 2 under the "team game" column which doesnt really explain anything.

What you are describing is player skill. Take for example Big Ben as I mentioned earlier. He did indeed ride the coat tails of his defense into a superbowl like Eli but the difference is between their individual player skill.

Big Ben can make all QB throws and by that I mean he has the ability to throw every single route a QB needs to including the dreaded deep out route that makes or breaks you as a NFL prospect. He also can buy time with his feet and continue plays as well as being strong enough to throw while getting hit. This includes the awareness to not throw picks.

These are things Eli lacks. Eli cant throw all QB routes, his arm never seems that strong and he couldnt buy time with his feet if his life depended on it. (And before you say what about that superbowl throw....hell even Drew Bledslow scrambled a couple times for a TD and that guy moved in reverse) and Eli should keep cherries in his pocket just to justify how many picks he is going to throw.

Those are the skills that make Big Ben a better QB.


Then there is over all ranking which is what I was talking about with his list. In over all ranking you have to include things like superbowl appearances and wins which should trump everything else.

If you separate them you can included everyone you want without screwing over people who have superbowls xp.

Take a HOF player like Warren Moon, this guy never even sniffed a conference championship but you damn sure better believe he is one of the best QB that ever played. Thus he is high on the player skill ranking but low on the overall ranking.

Same with someone like Hines Ward and Randy Moss. I dont think anyone will ever say that Hines Ward is skillfully better than Randy Moss but Hines as a Ring thus he has to go above Randy in some form and that is where over all Ranking comes into play.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Warner is a damn good QB. He just struggled after the Rams due to a variety of injuries. It's a shame too. Imagine the stats he'd have if he'd stayed healthy and kept playing at that level/his current level.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Warner is a damn good QB. He just struggled after the Rams due to a variety of injuries. It's a shame too. Imagine the stats he'd have if he'd stayed healthy and kept playing at that level/his current level.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. He should never have signed with the Giants. I do think it was funny how he won 5 out of his first 7 starts for the Giants. Then he went on a 2 game lose streak and they benched him in favor of Eli whom went 1-6 the rest of the games.

I hope he plays again next year. I think the Cards are ready to sign him to a good contract. Good in terms of money not years.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
bread's done
Back
Top