2009-2010 NBA Thread

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[quote name='wildcpac']"Good" coaches also have teams full of talent. Jackson had Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc, Rodman, Horace Grant and a ton of other great role players in Chicago. In LA he had Kobe and Shaq and then Kobe, Gasol, Odom and Artest.

Rivers has Pierce, KG, Rondo and Allen.[/QUOTE]

I still think the Cavs had a solid team. Watching the series, though, it's clear they're missing a true #2 guy, which they thought Antawn was going to be. Mo and Antawn are, however, good #3 options. They also have three centers who play differently, which is a nice luxury, even if you can't play them for long stretches (Shaq). They have an energy/hustle guy in Varejo. They have some wing flexibility with West, Moon, and Parker.

Here's what this "garbage" team did this year:

  • Best record in the league
  • 8th in 3pt percentage
  • 9th in defensive FG%
  • 2nd in defensive 3pt%
  • 9th in rebounding
  • 6th in FG%
  • 6th in scoring
You're looking at a team that, while not excellent in any one area, was solid in all areas. The problem is, when the games got tough there was no one to push the team through. Lebron, for all his ability, didn't enforce his will on his own team this series. Mike Brown didn't have this team motivated and didn't seem to make any adjustments to what his team was doing on the court. Those are the two guys the Cavs are looking to for some spark of leadership. There was none.
 
[quote name='jlarlee']God enough about the Elbow. I freaking hate Kobe but i respect the hell out of him. His body is probably in a condition similar to most people following a serious traffic accident. Dude is taping fingers together on his shooting hand and still dropping shots. Lebron just doesn't have the heart.

Lakers Suns is going to be interesting. I'd like to see the Suns advance but i don't think they can do it[/QUOTE]
How many years has Kobe played through dislocated or broken fingers? Don't like the guy, but he never made excuses, never complained, just played.

Paul Pierce gets a bad rap but he's played through some serious shit in his career. A lot of guys do. Sure Lebron was banged up but everybody is in the postseason.
 
I like how Lebron gets a whole lot of shit, yet Pierce had horrendous stats the entire series, and he gets the pass. The self proclaimed "greatest player in Celtics history" never showed up and nobody calls him out at all? Overrated is an understatement. Dude isn't even the greatest player on his current team, let alone the entire Celtics history.

Lebron does deserve most of the shit coming towards him, he shouldn't have made such a big controversy about his free agency. I hope he stays for Cleveland's sake, but damn man, seriously -> what the fuck? It's getting ridiculous how much talk surrounds him and the Cavs. Meanwhile we have the freaking playoffs completely sidelined in the news.

I can see it now...

Headlines:

LEBRON BOLTS TO NY!! .... Oh and yeah by the way the magic win the championship, no big deal...
 
With that in mind, how about a general debate question?

I've been pondering this while watching the playoffs since we've seen point guard play really make a difference. Let's say there's a crazy position-based redraft lottery. It's PG round, you have a guaranteed top 5 pick, and the guy you pick has to be your starting PG for the next five years. What's your order for the top 5?
 
[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']With that in mind, how about a general debate question?

I've been pondering this while watching the playoffs since we've seen point guard play really make a difference. Let's say there's a crazy position-based redraft lottery. It's PG round, you have a guaranteed top 5 pick, and the guy you pick has to be your starting PG for the next five years. What's your order for the top 5?[/QUOTE]

Considering you mentioned "for the next five years":

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Rajon Rondo
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Darren Collison

Honorable mentions:
1. Steve Nash - wouldn't be a top 5 point guard in 5 years, but I think he's going to age real well. Like a John Stockton.
2. Jason Kidd - again, the age plays a factor, but we all know Kidd is a beast.
3. Stephen Curry - I don't consider him a "pure" PG since he can play the 1 and 2 spots but the dude has great court vision and has that pure shot--much like Nash, in my opinion.

More honorable mentions (as a Warriors fan):
1. Monta Ellis - more of a SG, but my man Monta is a beast.. even with all his turnovers. :lol:
 
[quote name='antlp89']I like how Lebron gets a whole lot of shit, yet Pierce had horrendous stats the entire series, and he gets the pass. The self proclaimed "greatest player in Celtics history" never showed up and nobody calls him out at all? Overrated is an understatement. Dude isn't even the greatest player on his current team, let alone the entire Celtics history.

Lebron does deserve most of the shit coming towards him, he shouldn't have made such a big controversy about his free agency. I hope he stays for Cleveland's sake, but damn man, seriously -> what the fuck? It's getting ridiculous how much talk surrounds him and the Cavs. Meanwhile we have the freaking playoffs completely sidelined in the news.

I can see it now...

Headlines:

LEBRON BOLTS TO NY!! .... Oh and yeah by the way the magic win the championship, no big deal...[/QUOTE]

at the end of the day pierce won and that's what matters most
 
[quote name='lordopus99']This.

Mike Brown on the other hand isn't a good coach at all. He didn't make any changes during the Celts series (i.e. watching Rondo go off constantly on the weak defense of Mo Williams). Also, he didn't inspire the players to actually win... hence watching them give up in Game 5 and the last couple minutes in Game 6.[/QUOTE]

I agree Brown didn't make enough changes, nobody questions that, but he did have at least 3 different players try guarding Rondo including even Lebron. Problem was no one stopped Rondo.

[quote name='antlp89']I like how Lebron gets a whole lot of shit, yet Pierce had horrendous stats the entire series, and he gets the pass. The self proclaimed "greatest player in Celtics history" never showed up and nobody calls him out at all? Overrated is an understatement. Dude isn't even the greatest player on his current team, let alone the entire Celtics history.

Lebron does deserve most of the shit coming towards him, he shouldn't have made such a big controversy about his free agency. I hope he stays for Cleveland's sake, but damn man, seriously -> what the fuck? It's getting ridiculous how much talk surrounds him and the Cavs. Meanwhile we have the freaking playoffs completely sidelined in the news.

I can see it now...

Headlines:

LEBRON BOLTS TO NY!! .... Oh and yeah by the way the magic win the championship, no big deal...[/QUOTE]

Pierce didn't get the pass. Every game they talked about him not playing well and wondering when he was going to show up. The reason Lebron got so much shit is because his team was losing and he is the only star on his team. If the Celtics were losing like the Cavs, Pierce would've gotten more shit about it... but still not as much as Lebron since the Celtics have other players to pick up the slack. Not to mention Pierce was in foul trouble and didn't play a whole lot at times. And he did okay in games 5 and 6. He also played some good defense the entire series and got some bullshit calls on him for fouls that really took him out of the games.
 
Pierces current foul shots are the reason I hate the NBA. Pierce is driving to the outside and gets cut off by Nelson. After the contact, he flails his arms and throws the ball awkwardly at the basket and they call a shooting foul (3 shots). These calls are the reason I hate the NBA.

On another note, this game is ugly. Terrible ref calls and terrible offensive shooting by my team.
 
Yea...I was really looking forward to watching some basketball at the start of my vacation since I have missed most of the play offs but this is horrid.

Way to many fouls being called and I fully agree with you lordopuss that flailing you arms and throwing the ball toward the rim shit as got to stop. A shooting foul is a foul when someone is shooting not about to shoot, not slightly after shooting. if you run into them its a foul but not a shooting one.

I love when people get fouled at the 3 point line but somehow ends up taking the actual shot past the foul line because of the two step continuation.
 
Oh my fucking god dude. I am really starting to get what Howard was saying about the fouls. I dont understand how your allowed to basically hug a guy on defense but when tries to push you off to make a little room for himself he gets called for a foul?

Howard need to get more confidence and play his game no matter what. It clear the refs have thrown him off his game.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Oh my fucking god dude. I am really starting to get what Howard was saying about the fouls. I dont understand how your allowed to basically hug a guy on defense but when tries to push you off to make a little room for himself he gets called for a foul?

Howard need to get more confidence and play his game no matter what. It clear the refs have thrown him off his game.[/QUOTE]

They hate him and call bogus calls on him all the time. Hence the call you are talking about. He was just bringing his hands up to catch the ball and Baby Davis just happen to run into him. What blows my mind is this whole game the refs have been allowing the players down low to bang. Yet they called this bogus call... its just unacceptable.
 
Magic are just getting beat up on badly. 7 game series and that layoff and 2nd round laughter is killing them right now as well. Celtics just played a bunch of great games with the Cavs and Magic got a JV team.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Magic are just getting beat up on badly. 7 game series and that layoff and 2nd round laughter is killing them right now as well. Celtics just played a bunch of great games with the Cavs and Magic got a JV team.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't go that far. We just have been shooting poorly today. It isn't anything to do with the Celts, more with us just missing baskets. The refs have been giving the Celtics alot more calls (a couple examples see my other posts). In addition, we have played poorly on defense to boost. It doesn't help that Pierce caught on fire too.
 
Damn, the Magic almost pulled it off. 1 extra minute of regulation and the Magic would have won.

Having a week off and playing the Hawks have something to do with the Magic performance. They should come out strong for the rest of the series though. Celtics were coming off of intense wins against the Cavs. They were able to carry the momentum for the first 3 quarters today until the Magic finally woke up.
 
[quote name='mis0']Considering you mentioned "for the next five years":

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Rajon Rondo
4. Russell Westbrook
5. Darren Collison

[/QUOTE]

I'd go
1. Deron Williams
2. Chris Paul
3. Rajon Rondo
4. Derrick Rose
5. Russell Westbrook

My honorable mention would go to Stephen Curry. Good court sense and can shoot the lights out.
 
[quote name='lordopus99']They hate him and call bogus calls on him all the time. Hence the call you are talking about. He was just bringing his hands up to catch the ball and Baby Davis just happen to run into him. What blows my mind is this whole game the refs have been allowing the players down low to bang. Yet they called this bogus call... its just unacceptable.[/QUOTE]
Howard had his hands up in the faces of the guys guarding him all night and wasn't called much aside from that. Big Baby got that call because he got hit in his face a few seconds earlier and didn't flop. Bad call but they knew it was a bad call when they called it.

I wouldn't look too much into Orlando's comeback. The Celtics took a big lead and coasted, as they often do. Orlando never made it a one possession game with the ball.

As was mentioned, not having to double team Howard is huge for the Celtics. Kendrick Perkins is criminally underrated.
 
Perkins is properly rated. He's given credit as being one of the best defensive centers in basketball, and rightly derided for bringing absolutely nothing else. He's kind of like Erick Dampier in the sense that he's a one trick pony, but replace Damp's crazy offensive rebounding ability with man to man defense.

My PG list:

1. Chris Paul
2.
3.
4.
5. Deron Williams
6. Russell Westbrook
7. John Wall
8. Rajon Rondo

Just missed the cut:

Tyreke Evans (worried about his lack of explosive athleticism and agility, which will hinder his defense), Rose (same concerns with lateral quickness), Curry (best utilized as a Brent Barry in Seattle role, with possibly a bit more volume)

I'm super high on Westbrook, not really sold on Rose. Ultimately, I see him ending up like Devin Harris. Pretty darn good, but not top flight. John Wall is who people are describing when they talk about Rose, if you ask me.
 
I see D. Rose as more of a combo guard than a pure PG. He doesn't have the court vision an elite PG should have and I personally think he shoots more than he should, dribbles way more than necessary, and doesn't make the plays that gets his teammates involved. Plus, his astonishingly low steal count per game and his lackluster defense will never cut it especially among the discussion of a TOP 5 point guard. BUT, this can be because he's playing for the Bulls right now and they expect him to be their AllStar.

I would have had Tyreke Evans as an honorable mention as well but I think he plays more like Guard Forward (which makes sense since his "natural" position was SF before being converted to a combo guard during college).
 
[quote name='jlarlee']so much for the magic not losing a playoff game. Also in what universe do you rate westbrook ahead of Rondo?[/QUOTE]

A universe in which the next five years will see Westbrook continuing to improve. The guy started playing point guard as an NBA rookie.

Rondo is what he is at this point. Unless he develops a three pointer or improves his free throw shooting, he won't get any better. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing (he's really good), but Westbrook's ceiling is really high.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Rondo is what he is at this point. Unless he develops a three pointer or improves his free throw shooting, he won't get any better. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing (he's really good), but Westbrook's ceiling is really high.[/QUOTE]
Are you serious? Westbrook is only a couple years younger than he is. He's younger than Paul and Williams.

Rondo is on the verge of becoming a superstar. Who peaks at 24? Theres a guy named Magic who came into the league without an outside shot. Jason Kidd had no outside shot when he came into the league. Have you seen how teams play Rondo now? They don't leave him open anymore. He's improved his shooting and his confidence in his shot enough that you have to respect it defensively.

Also, Perkins is not Ben Wallace. Theres more to his game than just elite defense. He's only 25 himself, by the way.
 
The Magic made a good adjustment in the 4th by driving to the hoop instead of going for 3's, but too little too late. Celtics let themselves get off their game plan in the 4th and try to run down the clock instead of keep doing what had worked. Celts need to make an adjustment on defense now to match Magic's new offensive strategy. Happy with the outcome but Celts gave Magic some momentum by trying to win the game the easy way, which almost backfired. Refs were ok, not too great, but the cries about bad calls in here are overstated.

Who's to say Rondo won't keep improving? Now that he's raised other parts of his game he can put a lot more work into his shooting game over the next few years. The little time he's had with Mark Price this post season is already paying off.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Are you serious? Westbrook is only a couple years younger than he is. He's younger than Paul and Williams.[/QUOTE]

Here's a statline from a month in the 09-10 season:

18.8 PPG
6.5 RPG
10.0 APG
2.4 STL
2.3 TO
46.2 FG%

That was Westbrook's February.

Here are some more numbers, a comparison of Rondo and Westbrook through their first two seasons:

http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=1&p1=westbru01&y1=2010&p2=rondora01&y2=2008

Westbrook has him beat almost across the board.

A comparison of Westbrook's 2010 (his second season) vs Rondo's 2010 (fourth season):

http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=0&p1=westbru01&y1=2010&p2=rondora01&y2=2010

Rondo's clearly the better player at this point, but Westbrook isn't chopped liver.

Here is a comparison of Rondo's second and fourth seasons, to show the growth he's undergone from his second season to now:

http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=0&p1=rondora01&y1=2008&p2=rondora01&y2=2010

Predicting that Westbrook will be better than Rondo over the next five years isn't an insult. I can pull up similar pages that compare Westbrook favorably to Deron Williams through two seasons, too. The only guy that is off limits for Westbrook is Chris Paul, who is far and away the best PG in today's NBA, and has put up three of the best seasons ever produced by a PG. Even then, I wouldn't be surprised if Westbrook puts up a month or two, maybe even a season, that compare to CP3's brilliance.

Rondo is on the verge of becoming a superstar. Who peaks at 24?
Click to expand...
I'd slot Rondo as a superstar already, but anyway.

Dave Berri over at Wages of Wins argues that the vast majority of NBA players peak at 24/25:

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/12/23/a-quick-note-on-aging-in-the-nba/

Theres a guy named Magic who came into the league without an outside shot. Jason Kidd had no outside shot when he came into the league. Have you seen how teams play Rondo now? They don't leave him open anymore. He's improved his shooting and his confidence in his shot enough that you have to respect it defensively.
Click to expand...
It's possible that Rondo will improve his 3PT and FT shooting, but Magic and Kidd were both better spot up and/or free throw shooters than Rondo early in their careers. History teaches Rondo won't turn into the excellent shooters those guys were/are (Kidd's an outlier), and if it does happen, it won't take place before his athleticism wanes.

Also, Perkins is not Ben Wallace.
Click to expand...
You're right. Ben Wallace had a run of 8 seasons where he was one of the elite defenders of all time, and was also among the league leaders in rebounding.

Perkins has zero such seasons.

Theres more to his game than just elite defense. He's only 25 himself, by the way.
Click to expand...
He's also played 442 regular season games, 56 postseason games, and is wrapping up his seventh season in the NBA. Take off the Boston blinders, man.
 
Do I need to have blinders to think there is still room for growth in a 25 year old's game?

You know where I was going with the Wallace comparison, he is not worthless in the offensive end.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Howard had his hands up in the faces of the guys guarding him all night and wasn't called much aside from that. Big Baby got that call because he got hit in his face a few seconds earlier and didn't flop. Bad call but they knew it was a bad call when they called it.

I wouldn't look too much into Orlando's comeback. The Celtics took a big lead and coasted, as they often do. Orlando never made it a one possession game with the ball.

As was mentioned, not having to double team Howard is huge for the Celtics. Kendrick Perkins is criminally underrated.[/QUOTE]

You are funny. Orlando shot poorly until the 4th... it was not because of Celtic defense. Pietrus and Lewis missed wide open shots. It doesn't help with the lackdaisical passes i.e. the TOs. The only person who could score in the first 3 quarters was really Vince (for the Magic). Also the lack of defense from actually both teams is why the announcers at one time said this looks like a JV game. The only two players I saw playing good defense was Howard and Rondo.

Kendrick Perkins is overrated. He is big and fills the lane. That's it... his defense is mediocre, not a great rebounder, can't hit wide open 5 foot jump shots, a TO liability, etc. Howard had a bunch of good looks that Bynum could have easily scored. He just missed them from trying to overpower the shot or using his left.

As for looking into the comeback... the game is behind them. They will tighten back up and hit their shots. The layoff plus the terrible Hawks caused them to be rusty. There is no way Pierce goes again for 6-8 shooting (he average somewhere around 35-40%). Remember the Magic won 3-1 regular season meetings.

My PG next 5 years list would be...
1. Deron Williams
2. Chris Paul
3. Brandon Jennings (surpised to see him not on anyone elses list)
4. Rajan Rondo
5. Jameer Nelson

Westbrook to me is not that good. He turns the ball over too much. Two games ago for him 8 TOs for 6 assists... pure ugly. Rondo leads the NBA in steals (2.3) and leads all PGs in Shooting % (50%). The fact that he gets his players open shots make him that much better. Since stats were brought up... Rondo posted 29pts, 18boards, 13 assists, 2 steals on a good Cavs team. Previous series, he posted 16pts, 8boards, 12 assists, 5 steals on a decent Miami team.
 
Jameer Nelson shouldn't be anywhere near a TOP 5 PG list.

As for Westbrook, you have to note that the dude started playing PG again after entering the NBA because at UCLA, Collison started at the 1 with Westbrook at the 2. Westbrook has a lot of raw talent, speed, and is a great play maker. He can penetrate the paint with ease and that's a necessity for a a great point guard. As for the TO's, the dude turns over the ball the same rate at all the other elite PG's at an average 3-4 per game (with the exception of CP3--he's a beast).

You're taking stats from a single game and justifying a player's greatness (or lack of). Any PG with a smidgen of talent can explode for a great game, but you gotta account of consistency.. which takes Jennings out of the running. The dude shoots like what--30% from the field? Also, his assists are quite low for a PG with a great big man on his team. Albeit, he's a rookie, but he played overseas last year and Euro ball is all flashy passes and layups.
 
[quote name='mis0']Jameer Nelson shouldn't be anywhere near a TOP 5 PG list.

As for Westbrook, you have to note that the dude started playing PG again after entering the NBA because at UCLA, Collison started at the 1 with Westbrook at the 2. Westbrook has a lot of raw talent, speed, and is a great play maker. He can penetrate the paint with ease and that's a necessity for a a great point guard. As for the TO's, the dude turns over the ball the same rate at all the other elite PG's at an average 3-4 per game (with the exception of CP3--he's a beast).

You're taking stats from a single game and justifying a player's greatness (or lack of). Any PG with a smidgen of talent can explode for a great game, but you gotta account of consistency.. which takes Jennings out of the running. The dude shoots like what--30% from the field? Also, his assists are quite low for a PG with a great big man on his team. Albeit, he's a rookie, but he played overseas last year and Euro ball is all flashy passes and layups.[/QUOTE]

I gotta say, Westbrook's shooting percentage isn't that much better then Jennings really. I really think Rondo will end up being better then Westbrook and Jennings in the long run.
 
I actually forgot about Jennings. That's what being on the Bucks gets you. I'd still have him outside my top five, but he'd probably be no lower than 8th on my list.

I want to see John Wall play in the pros before I make a final call on that one. He's got the skills, I just want to see the adjustment.

It's amazed me how many good young point guards there are out there now. It seems like at least half the teams out there have a good PG within the first five years of his career. It's really fun to watch, I think, no matter how we might each rank them. Of course, none of them are posting 42 pts, 15 rebs, 7 ast, and 3 steals while starting at center in place of Kareem to win the championship (and finals MVP) as a rookie *cough*bestplayerever*cough*
 
[quote name='lordopus99']Orlando shot poorly until the 4th... it was not because of Celtic defense.[/quote]
Sure it wasn't.

[quote name='lordopus99']Kendrick Perkins is overrated. He is big and fills the lane. That's it... his defense is mediocre, not a great rebounder, can't hit wide open 5 foot jump shots, a TO liability, etc. Howard had a bunch of good looks that Bynum could have easily scored. He just missed them from trying to overpower the shot or using his left.[/quote]
Thats why he was 2nd in the league in FG% this year, right? Perkins has always shut down Howard because he's a big mean motherfucker and a great low post defender.


[quote name='lordopus99']There is no way Pierce goes again for 6-8 shooting (he average somewhere around 35-40%).[/quote]
I bet he doesn't, the Celtics don't lean on one guy for offense anymore. One night its Pierce, one night its Allen, one night its KG or Rondo... I bet they don't keep the ball out of Rondo's hands so much in Game 2, either. And you know what, I bet KG doesn't go 4 for 14 again with 8 points.



[quote name='lordopus99']Remember the Magic won 3-1 regular season meetings.[/quote]
Regular season means nothing to the Celtics.
 
[quote name='mis0']Jameer Nelson shouldn't be anywhere near a TOP 5 PG list.

As for Westbrook, you have to note that the dude started playing PG again after entering the NBA because at UCLA, Collison started at the 1 with Westbrook at the 2. Westbrook has a lot of raw talent, speed, and is a great play maker. He can penetrate the paint with ease and that's a necessity for a a great point guard. As for the TO's, the dude turns over the ball the same rate at all the other elite PG's at an average 3-4 per game (with the exception of CP3--he's a beast).

You're taking stats from a single game and justifying a player's greatness (or lack of). Any PG with a smidgen of talent can explode for a great game, but you gotta account of consistency.. which takes Jennings out of the running. The dude shoots like what--30% from the field? Also, his assists are quite low for a PG with a great big man on his team. Albeit, he's a rookie, but he played overseas last year and Euro ball is all flashy passes and layups.[/QUOTE]

Jennings - He took a below average team and turned them into a playoff team while their star (michael redd) was injured on the season. :roll: Imagine what he could do if he had a Durant/Kobe/Lebron/etc on his team.

My reasons for Nelson is he is explosive and has good vision/passing. He can slash the lane and create open shots, hence why the Magic are the number 1 three point team.

Why bring up college for Westbrooks shortcomings? He has been a pro for 2 years. I personally don't see "playmaker" in his role from when I have watched thunder games. Last I checked, Durantula creates all the shots for the team. Raw talent - I think what westbrook is now is what westbrook will retire like. I don't see an upside to him. Yes he is speedy but so are plenty of other players. He would probably fall in my top 10.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']
Thats why he was 2nd in the league in FG% this year, right? Perkins has always shut down Howard because he's a big mean motherfucker and a great low post defender.
[/QUOTE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8OY8rlPEXY

Always shut down Howard you say... :lol:
Feb 9 - 16pts(4-9), 13boards, 2blocks while in foul trouble
Jan 29 - 19pts(8-12), 10boards, 4blocks
Nov 20 - 9pts (2-4), 15boards, 3blocks

Second in FG but no where close for Points (merger 10pts). During your games, he must never get the ball unless he is in dunking position (because his shot is ugly). Again, he is big and fills a lane. Thats all.

Thanks for playing!
 
I never said Jennings was horrible, just that he doesn't have the tools tp become a TOP 5 PG which is the topic we're discussing. The guy is good, but he won't be an ELITE point guard--there's too much talent at the 1 spot in the NBA right now and there are flaws to his game: an inconsistent shot and average passing skills. For the record, Jennings alone didn't make the Bucks a playoff team, it was Bogut's monster elevation in play (which unfortunately ended with an injury), and the midseason trades that made the Bucks into the playoff team that pushed the Hawks to 6 (or was it 7) games.

As for the Westbrook, I bring up college because he shifted from being a SG (which in my opinion, is a more natural position for him) to a PG. In two years, he's already among discussion of being a prospective TOP 5 PG and he's only going to get better. You can't tell me that the Thunder team is going to stay stagnant after this season, their team as a collective is going to get better and their two AllStars: Durant and Westbrook, are going to lead the way.

But yeah, if we extend this ranking to a TOP 10 PG in the next 5 years, I'd definitely have Jennings (and even Jameer) lingering on the lower end but as for a TOP 5, there's too many players than are better than them now, and will be better than them in the future. For the record: spots 5 through 10 in no particular order--Rose, Jennings, Jameer, Curry, Nash and/or Kidd (gotta have one of the older timers in here). :lol:
 
[quote name='lordopus99']Second in FG but no where close for Points (merger 10pts). During your games, he must never get the ball unless he is in dunking position (because his shot is ugly). Again, he is big and fills a lane. Thats all.

Thanks for playing![/QUOTE]
Didn't we just talk about the regular season? The Celtics don't care about the regular season.

Lets talk about playoffs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3-eavMSBnk

Perkins has held Howard to 16 points per game in the playoffs while playing him one on one. Last year, he averaged 25.8 against Philly and 24 against the Cavs. This year he averaged 21 points against Charlotte. The Lakers held Howard to 15.4, but they had to double him and live with more open 3's.

Perkins is holding him to below his season average in points while not having to double him, Orlando kills teams with that open man. As for your regular season stats, although they're not all that good anyway, Perkins only averaged 18 minutes a game against Orlando because of fouls. They're not calling those ticky tack fouls in the postseason.
 
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[quote name='lordopus99']You are funny. Orlando shot poorly until the 4th... it was not because of Celtic defense. Pietrus and Lewis missed wide open shots. It doesn't help with the lackdaisical passes i.e. the TOs. The only person who could score in the first 3 quarters was really Vince (for the Magic). Also the lack of defense from actually both teams is why the announcers at one time said this looks like a JV game. The only two players I saw playing good defense was Howard and Rondo.

Kendrick Perkins is overrated. He is big and fills the lane. That's it... his defense is mediocre, not a great rebounder, can't hit wide open 5 foot jump shots, a TO liability, etc. Howard had a bunch of good looks that Bynum could have easily scored. He just missed them from trying to overpower the shot or using his left.

As for looking into the comeback... the game is behind them. They will tighten back up and hit their shots. The layoff plus the terrible Hawks caused them to be rusty. There is no way Pierce goes again for 6-8 shooting (he average somewhere around 35-40%). Remember the Magic won 3-1 regular season meetings.

My PG next 5 years list would be...
1. Deron Williams
2. Chris Paul
3. Brandon Jennings (surpised to see him not on anyone elses list)
4. Rajan Rondo
5. Jameer Nelson

Westbrook to me is not that good. He turns the ball over too much. Two games ago for him 8 TOs for 6 assists... pure ugly. Rondo leads the NBA in steals (2.3) and leads all PGs in Shooting % (50%). The fact that he gets his players open shots make him that much better. Since stats were brought up... Rondo posted 29pts, 18boards, 13 assists, 2 steals on a good Cavs team. Previous series, he posted 16pts, 8boards, 12 assists, 5 steals on a decent Miami team.[/QUOTE]
I don't know what channel you were watching, but the announcers I heard made remarks about the Magic's defense being bad and the Celtics playing great defense. Pierce averages 47% this year, 45% career, 46% first round. Only in round 2 did he average what you say he does, when he played poorly and was in foul trouble. The Magic won 3-1 in reg season, but every game was decided by single digits, and Boston was not healthy. Celtics and Magic stats for regular season matchup:

Magic 88 PPG
Celtics 86.8 PPG

Celtics 41.3% FG
Magic 41% FG

Magic 42.5 RPG
Celtics 40.8 RPG

Celtics 21.3 APG
Magic 12.8 APG

[quote name='lordopus99']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8OY8rlPEXY

Always shut down Howard you say... :lol:
Feb 9 - 16pts(4-9), 13boards, 2blocks while in foul trouble
Jan 29 - 19pts(8-12), 10boards, 4blocks
Nov 20 - 9pts (2-4), 15boards, 3blocks

Second in FG but no where close for Points (merger 10pts). During your games, he must never get the ball unless he is in dunking position (because his shot is ugly). Again, he is big and fills a lane. Thats all.

Thanks for playing![/QUOTE]

Yes, blocks on defense count when deciding if that player was shut down on offense... Oh and...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T80RTP6VilQ
 
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[quote name='lordopus99']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8OY8rlPEXY

Always shut down Howard you say... :lol:
Feb 9 - 16pts(4-9), 13boards, 2blocks while in foul trouble
Jan 29 - 19pts(8-12), 10boards, 4blocks
Nov 20 - 9pts (2-4), 15boards, 3blocks

Second in FG but no where close for Points (merger 10pts). During your games, he must never get the ball unless he is in dunking position (because his shot is ugly). Again, he is big and fills a lane. Thats all.

Thanks for playing![/QUOTE]

Yes, blocks on defense count when deciding if that player was shut down on offense... Oh and...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T80RTP6VilQ
 
I've got the Lakers in 6. Not sure about the East. I'd like for Boston to win so we could have a rematch from 2008 (and 10 other Finals meetings). 40 minutes till game time.
 
[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']I don't see why they couldn't start this damn game by 8:30 at the latest. No need to wait until 9. Stupidass west coast.[/QUOTE]

I see your point, but the game is in L.A. If they started earlier, people wouldn't be off work... and you know how bad traffic is in downtown LA?
 
[quote name='Matt Young']I see your point, but the game is in L.A. If they started earlier, people wouldn't be off work... and you know how bad traffic is in downtown LA?[/QUOTE]

Lakers fans don't like to show up until the second quarter anyways, so why not start it at 8:30? :lol:
 
Haha, well, you have a point. But that is during the regular season, not the playoffs.

The Kings fans get there really early. Whenever I go to Kings games with a friend of mine, we show up at least an hour before game time.
 
Holy fuck, Shannon Brown just got up! That was old school Vince Carter height.

Also: Triple amputee Kobe on kidney dialysis: Still scores 30, you think?
 
Haha can't believe my friend took the Game 1 bet of $10. He thought the suns would be able to steal the first one in Staples. Only way the Suns are winning this series is if they somehow steal Game 5. (If it goes that long)
 
I dont know what the deal is but I lose interest more and more in the NBA every year. There is something about the games that just dont thrill me anymore.

The games dont have any flow to them and the lack of a hard nose defensive team just makes it boring. I guess I am just to much of a fan of the old NBA where games didnt average 40 plus fouls and every game was a fucking war. (thats a real stat by the way) and the fouls that did occur were Man sized fouls and none of this pussy "the offensive player had to adjust thats a foul."

I really hate Davids Sterns Nickelodeon Style NBA. Every interview is cookie cutter, every press conference is full of the same 3rd grade questions and half answers. And I feel like I watch free throws and huddles more than the actual game.

If someones head didnt just get taken off than its not a foul in the play offs.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']I dont know what the deal is but I lose interest more and more in the NBA every year. There is something about the games that just dont thrill me anymore.

The games dont have any flow to them and the lack of a hard nose defensive team just makes it boring. I guess I am just to much of a fan of the old NBA where games didnt average 40 plus fouls and every game was a fucking war. (thats a real stat by the way) and the fouls that did occur were Man sized fouls and none of this pussy "the offensive player had to adjust thats a foul."

I really hate Davids Sterns Nickelodeon Style NBA. Every interview is cookie cutter, every press conference is full of the same 3rd grade questions and half answers. And I feel like I watch free throws and huddles more than the actual game.

If someones head didnt just get taken off than its not a foul in the play offs.[/QUOTE]

While I don't agree with the losing interest, I do agree with missing the old style of play. There's no place for a Kurt Rambis, Charles Oakley or Rick Mahorn in today's game.
 
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