2009-2010 NBA Thread

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[quote name='Matt Young']The Bulls just beat the Bobcats 96-88. Chicago led by 7-9 points for most of the game before going down 6 to Charlotte to start the 4th. But they came right back and regained the lead, beating the 7 seed and keeping their playoff hopes alive. Are the Bulls even still trying to make the playoffs, though?[/QUOTE]

absolutely
 
Holy fuck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex2ryik9j9g

Edit:

"Amare is a stinking louse. That scum bag cheater should be banned from
the game and charged with assault. This effectively ends the Bucks season.
Just because a cheating skunk playing for a cheating team and he ends the
Bucks season. It's time for the police to press charges on a play like this. If
I pushed you down on the street and you were injured I'd be arrested. That
dirtbag Amare Should be arrested."

Bucks fans are retarded.
 
[quote name='yukine']Holy fuck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex2ryik9j9g

Edit:

"Amare is a stinking louse. That scum bag cheater should be banned from
the game and charged with assault. This effectively ends the Bucks season.
Just because a cheating skunk playing for a cheating team and he ends the
Bucks season. It's time for the police to press charges on a play like this. If
I pushed you down on the street and you were injured I'd be arrested. That
dirtbag Amare Should be arrested."

Bucks fans are retarded.[/QUOTE]

I cringed watching that play.
 
[quote name='yukine']"Amare is a stinking louse. That scum bag cheater should be banned from
the game and charged with assault. This effectively ends the Bucks season.
Just because a cheating skunk playing for a cheating team and he ends the
Bucks season. It's time for the police to press charges on a play like this. If
I pushed you down on the street and you were injured I'd be arrested. That
dirtbag Amare Should be arrested."

Bucks fans are retarded.[/QUOTE]

It's just karma catching up with the Bucks for Brandon Jennings spending the season acting ticked off that the rest of the world does not happen to consider him to be Jesus.
 
[quote name='yukine']Holy fuck:

Edit:

"Amare is a stinking louse. That scum bag cheater should be banned from
the game and charged with assault. This effectively ends the Bucks season.
Just because a cheating skunk playing for a cheating team and he ends the
Bucks season. It's time for the police to press charges on a play like this. If
I pushed you down on the street and you were injured I'd be arrested. That
dirtbag Amare Should be arrested."

Bucks fans are retarded.[/QUOTE]

I can understand being upset that he got injured, but looking at that play multiple times, Amare barely touched the back of Bogut's jersey. There was no separate forward motion of Amare's arm. Bogut just had too much momentum. It's amazing how absurd people can be.
 
[quote name='Drclaw411']Is it rediculous that I honestly and truly believe the single biggest factor in deciding where the star free agents will go is the girls of Miami? That will be everybodies first choice because of the bikinis and extremley small shorts.[/QUOTE]

It has nothing to do with that. These are NBA players... they get ass in any NBA city.

Most of these players have homes in South Florida. In addition, it has to do with salary caps and playing with players/coaches they want to play with. It has been pretty obvious that Wade and Bosh are great friends. This is why I say all signs point to him moving to Miami in the offseason (if he leaves Toronto).

As for Bogut, the foul was barely there. The injury was due to momentum. Most players going down the court that fast hang on the rim for the momentum to catch up with them, which wasn't the case for Bogut who released his grip.
 
[quote name='lordopus99']As for Bogut, the foul was barely there. The injury was due to momentum. Most players going down the court that fast hang on the rim for the momentum to catch up with them, which wasn't the case for Bogut who released his grip.[/QUOTE]

I think he was just distracted by Amare, but when the ball hit him in the face he let go of the rim.
 
That Bogut play was cringe worthy but had nothing to do with Amare what so ever. When people dunk two hands they have to remember to hang on and swing back before letting ago.

I always find it funny when people complain about fouls now a days. I am a firm fan of the Bad Boy Pistons (and that level of defense) when they would body slam people in the air to prevent a bucket. It was a mistake he will get over it.
 
Amare didn't even touch him.
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Chicago Bulls > Bill Laimbeer > Bill Laimbeer's Combat Basketball > Charles Barkley.

Just kidding. You can put Charles in front of Bill despite his hating of the Celtics. modern Celtics.
 
I was at the Cleveland/Toronto game. I got to my seat 3 minutes after tip-off and wondered why there was a time out so early in the game. It turns out it was for Bosh; I never saw what happened.
 
Best players in the NBA in no particular order:

LeBitch James
Dwayne Wade
Dwight Howard
Kevin Durant
John Salmons
Kobe Bryant
Carmelo Anthony

Seriously.......why did Salmons become jesors after getting traded to the Bucks? He is the single biggest reason the Bulls are missing the playoffs.
 
Nah, the Bulls' lack of healthy rotation players in the second half of the season is the reason they aren't making the postseason. Noah is one of the better defensive and rebounding centers in basketball, and Deng, while marginally above average offensively, is solid defensively.

Salmons should be replaced by Chris Paul in your list, anyway. And TIMMAH, Dirk, Deron Williams or Pau Gasol are more deserving than Carmelo to be on that list. Heck, per possession, Manu outperforms both Kobe and Carmelo, and Bogut and Gerald Wallace have much better ORtg/DRtg splits as well.
 
Besides the health problems to the Bulls, you can also note the loss of one of their top scorers Ben Gordon to the Pistons.

As for the list of players, it is a joke without Steve Nash and/or Deron Williams listed. Nobody is a better point guard in the league than those two guys. They turn everyone around them into great players. The only other one of your list that does that is Lebron. Kobe couldn't get it done without Shaq or Pau, Dwayne can't get it done without Shaq, etc. Melo is far from a good player.
 
[quote name='Drclaw411']Best players in the NBA in no particular order:

LeBitch James
Dwayne Wade
Dwight Howard
Kevin Durant
John Salmons
Kobe Bryant
Carmelo Anthony

Seriously.......why did Salmons become jesors after getting traded to the Bucks? He is the single biggest reason the Bulls are missing the playoffs.[/QUOTE]


Contract year. Salmons has an out clause this year.


Earl Barron is the best D League player that nobody even looked at. Guy just put up 18 points, 17 rebounds from center for the Knicks against the Celtics.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Contract year. Salmons has an out clause this year. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, but when Salmons was with the Bulls, he was completely sucking it up there. That Jennings kid makes his team better.... when he plays minutes

It's such BS that Durant didn't get that last call against the Jazz. Such BS.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']
Earl Barron is the best D League player that nobody even looked at. Guy just put up 18 points, 17 rebounds from center for the Knicks against the Celtics.[/QUOTE]

People have looked at him... he rode the bench in Miami for a reason.

[quote name='kilm']It's such BS that Durant didn't get that last call against the Jazz. Such BS. [/QUOTE]
I didn't watch the game but I can tell you based on the game I watch with OKC vs Celts... he gets a lot of bogus calls his way... the same way Kobe gets them... you know phantom fouls. It the one thing I hate most about the NBA.
 
[quote name='lordopus99']People have looked at him... he rode the bench in Miami for a reason.


I didn't watch the game but I can tell you based on the game I watch with OKC vs Celts... he gets a lot of bogus calls his way... the same way Kobe gets them... you know phantom fouls. It the one thing I hate most about the NBA.[/QUOTE]

No doubt Superstars get special treatment, but CJ Miles hit his arm pretty hard on that one, refs just swallowed the whistle.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Nah, the Bulls' lack of healthy rotation players in the second half of the season is the reason they aren't making the postseason. Noah is one of the better defensive and rebounding centers in basketball, and Deng, while marginally above average offensively, is solid defensively.

Salmons should be replaced by Chris Paul in your list, anyway. And TIMMAH, Dirk, Deron Williams or Pau Gasol are more deserving than Carmelo to be on that list. Heck, per possession, Manu outperforms both Kobe and Carmelo, and Bogut and Gerald Wallace have much better ORtg/DRtg splits as well.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='lordopus99']Besides the health problems to the Bulls, you can also note the loss of one of their top scorers Ben Gordon to the Pistons.

As for the list of players, it is a joke without Steve Nash and/or Deron Williams listed. Nobody is a better point guard in the league than those two guys. They turn everyone around them into great players. The only other one of your list that does that is Lebron. Kobe couldn't get it done without Shaq or Pau, Dwayne can't get it done without Shaq, etc. Melo is far from a good player.[/QUOTE]

I wasnt trying to make an official list. I was just trying to point out that Salmons decided to be effective as soon as he got traded. Especially since he beat the Bulls single handedly last night, the entire time playing with and "i'll show you!" swagger. Seriously they Bulls wouldn't have traded him if he was doing in Chicago what he's done in Milwakuee. I'm pretty sure they have only lost 4 games since the trading deadline 2 months ago.

As for Ben Gordon, i'm not sure he really would have helped this year. He's having the worst year of his career and shooting absolutley terribly.
 
[quote name='lordopus99']People have looked at him... he rode the bench in Miami for a reason.


I didn't watch the game but I can tell you based on the game I watch with OKC vs Celts... he gets a lot of bogus calls his way... the same way Kobe gets them... you know phantom fouls. It the one thing I hate most about the NBA.[/QUOTE]

I think the worst call situation i've ever seen was last year in the Bulls-Celtics playoff series. Game 5 in the closing seconds, Brad Miller has a clear lane for an easy layup to tie the game. So Rajon Rondo (off topic...i fucking hate when people say rondo > rose. switch those two guys. with rose the celtics would still be dominant and the Bulls would be nowhere near the playoffs last year or this year) goes up, makes absolutely no play on the ball and clobbers Miller's face. Hard. Miller goes to the ground, he has a cut under his eye, his nose is bleeding, and one of his teeth is caught in his lip (which is obviously also bleeding). It should have been a flagrant 2, which the guys on nba fastbreak and tnt both agreed, but instead they call a normal foul. Miller has to go to the line still bleeding all over the place because if they take him out, he can't re enter the game (rule put in place so awful free throw shooters like shaq and ben wallace cant pretend to be hurt to get out of late free throws, thus sending their respective team's 3-point sharp shooter to the free throw line, and just checking right back in after). He only makes one of 2, and that's game. Miller then went to the locker room and got over 15 total stiches put in various parts of his face.

Vinny Del Negro, who is an awful coach btw, complained that it should have been a flagrant, and got fined for it. To be honest it was a smart play by Rondo. In a split second he had to think in his head "ok I can't make a play on this ball...he's about to send it into overtime and they've won every overtime game in this series. I need to foul him hard so he misses this and hope they don't call a flagrant and he misses at least 1 free throw. If they call a flagrant, he still has to make both free throws or they have to hit a shot with .7 left or we win". It worked out for him.
 
[quote name='Drclaw411']I wasnt trying to make an official list. I was just trying to point out that Salmons decided to be effective as soon as he got traded. Especially since he beat the Bulls single handedly last night, the entire time playing with and "i'll show you!" swagger. Seriously they Bulls wouldn't have traded him if he was doing in Chicago what he's done in Milwakuee. I'm pretty sure they have only lost 4 games since the trading deadline 2 months ago.

As for Ben Gordon, i'm not sure he really would have helped this year. He's having the worst year of his career and shooting absolutley terribly.[/QUOTE]

His play this year is really not Ben's fault. He only averages 27 minutes (vs 37 last year) and still has around the same FG%. Villenueva is also having the worst year of his career. I blame the coaching staff and the system in Detroit for how their play is. The Pistons lack a true point guard (Stuckey IMO is a SG), which the Bulls have two (Rose and Hinrich). I think his play would have help you guys since your team lacks offense, which is what he does. The only guy who plays consistently offensively is Rose. The other weakness for you guys is your bench (outside of Brad Miller, the rest are terrible).
 
[quote name='lordopus99']His play this year is really not Ben's fault. He only averages 27 minutes (vs 37 last year) and still has around the same FG%. Villenueva is also having the worst year of his career. I blame the coaching staff and the system in Detroit for how their play is. The Pistons lack a true point guard (Stuckey IMO is a SG), which the Bulls have two (Rose and Hinrich). I think his play would have help you guys since your team lacks offense, which is what he does. The only guy who plays consistently offensively is Rose. The other weakness for you guys is your bench (outside of Brad Miller, the rest are terrible).[/QUOTE]

Preaching to the choir about the bench. When Rose, Noah, and Deng all went down within 2 days of each other, we lost 10 in a row. We usually get 2 decent performances off the bench, one being Brad Miller, and then either Warrick, Murray, or Johnson will do at least some error free play, but beyond that...ehh. And what the hell team has Jannero Pargo as a rotation player? Vinny is really stupid sometimes.

The other day against Milwakuee we were on a 7-0 run, and they turned the ball over twice in a row, so he decided to call a time out before we could proceed with a fast break.

As for Ben, what the general consensus has been is this: Ben Gordon coming back would have made us a 2nd-3rd round exit for years to come. But not bringing him back gives us the capspace to at least try to land Bosh (no, I don't think Wade/LeBitch are leaving their cities, and Kobe already resigned with LA). If we don't get him, we can always use that money to get a guy who does the same things Gordon did (maybe Anthony Morrow). It just made sense to at least try to get Bosh.
 
I would take Rondo over Rose. Rondo is doing comparable to Nash this year.

Rondo
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 BOS 76 76 36.5 0.511 0.213 0.622 1.2 3.2 4.4 9.8 2.4 0.1 3.0 2.4 13.6

Nash
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 PHX 76 76 33.0 0.505 0.423 0.934 0.4 2.9 3.4 11.0 0.5 0.1 3.7 1.3 16.6

Rose
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 CHI 73 73 36.4 0.484 0.265 0.774 0.8 2.9 3.7 5.9 0.7 0.3 2.7 1.2 20.2
 
[quote name='Drclaw411']Best players in the NBA in no particular order:

LeBitch James
Dwayne Wade
Dwight Howard
Kevin Durant
John Salmons
Kobe Bryant
Carmelo Anthony

Seriously.......why did Salmons become jesors after getting traded to the Bucks? He is the single biggest reason the Bulls are missing the playoffs.[/QUOTE]
The person who says John Salmons in one of the best player in the NBA also calls Lebron "Lebitch", do you know anything NBA? Salmons is good but BEST NBA player???
 
[quote name='J7.']I would take Rondo over Rose. Rondo is doing comparable to Nash this year.

Rondo
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 BOS 76 76 36.5 0.511 0.213 0.622 1.2 3.2 4.4 9.8 2.4 0.1 3.0 2.4 13.6

Nash
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 PHX 76 76 33.0 0.505 0.423 0.934 0.4 2.9 3.4 11.0 0.5 0.1 3.7 1.3 16.6

Rose
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 CHI 73 73 36.4 0.484 0.265 0.774 0.8 2.9 3.7 5.9 0.7 0.3 2.7 1.2 20.2[/QUOTE]
This shows me that you aren't paying much attention to the two players individually in regaurd to their situations. Derrick Rose is a much better player than Rajon Rondo (don't even get me started on the world's John Wall fetish). Does Rondo have more assits? Yes, but dude, watch a Bulls game. If the rest of the team could knock down a shot or had enough sense to go to the hoop when he gave it to them and they had an open lane, he'd be averageing 9-12 assists per game. He shoots a lower percentage, but he also has to take much more shots because he is the only guy on his team who can do anything at the end of games, or when the other team goes on a run. Rondo has the ego (and yes, skill) of KG to pass to, the 3 point shooting in Allen, the superstar in Paul Pierce, and they're a deep team beyond that.

Bottom line: Would the Bulls have any shot at the playoffs this year, or made the playoffs last year if they had Rondo instead of Rose? No. Would the Celtics has a much better chance to best the Cleveland LeBrons and get to the finals with Rose at the point? Yes.

[quote name='sighrex']The person who says John Salmons in one of the best player in the NBA also calls Lebron "Lebitch", do you know anything NBA? Salmons is good but BEST NBA player???[/QUOTE]

Dude, read the post. It was a humorous exageration because of how he turned it on as soon as he got traded.
 
[quote name='Drclaw411']This shows me that you aren't paying much attention to the two players individually in regaurd to their situations....

Rondo has the ego (and yes, skill) of KG to pass to, the 3 point shooting in Allen, the superstar in Paul Pierce, and they're a deep team beyond that.[/QUOTE]
This shows me that you aren't paying much attention to the Boston Celtics.

Do you remember the playoff series last year when they went head to head? Rose was good, but Rondo almost averaged a triple double. Hell, he was 0.2 rebounds and 0.3 assists away from averaging a triple double in his entire postseason. He was their best player, he carried them. Rondo's a much more efficient scorer, and in that series where he had to take more shots, he proved he could shoot more and maintain that efficiency.

Rondo's also a much better defender than Rose and a much better distributor.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']This shows me that you aren't paying much attention to the Boston Celtics.

Do you remember the playoff series last year when they went head to head? Rose was good, but Rondo almost averaged a triple double. Hell, he was 0.2 rebounds and 0.3 assists away from averaging a triple double in his entire postseason. He was their best player, he carried them. Rondo's a much more efficient scorer, and in that series where he had to take more shots, he proved he could shoot more and maintain that efficiency.

Rondo's also a much better defender than Rose and a much better distributor.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree at this point Rondo is a better player overall then Rose, except for his shooting. His free throw percentage is terrible for a point guard.
 
[quote name='Drclaw411']This shows me that you aren't paying much attention to the two players individually in regaurd to their situations. Derrick Rose is a much better player than Rajon Rondo (don't even get me started on the world's John Wall fetish). Does Rondo have more assits? Yes, but dude, watch a Bulls game. If the rest of the team could knock down a shot or had enough sense to go to the hoop when he gave it to them and they had an open lane, he'd be averageing 9-12 assists per game. He shoots a lower percentage, but he also has to take much more shots because he is the only guy on his team who can do anything at the end of games, or when the other team goes on a run. Rondo has the ego (and yes, skill) of KG to pass to, the 3 point shooting in Allen, the superstar in Paul Pierce, and they're a deep team beyond that.

Bottom line: Would the Bulls have any shot at the playoffs this year, or made the playoffs last year if they had Rondo instead of Rose? No. Would the Celtics has a much better chance to best the Cleveland LeBrons and get to the finals with Rose at the point? Yes.
[/QUOTE]
That is a lot of what-ifs. I gotta take Rondo's ability to move the ball, create plays, and his defense and heart over Rose's ability to score and make plays for himself.
 
Rose's ability to make plays for himself? You act like he's Steve Francis. Rose is one of the most unselfish players in the league. I'm sorry. Derrick Rose is a better player thant Rondo, reguardless of how big of a boner the media has for Boston.
 
[quote name='Drclaw411']Rose's ability to make plays for himself? You act like he's Steve Francis. Rose is one of the most unselfish players in the league. I'm sorry. Derrick Rose is a better player thant Rondo, reguardless of how big of a boner the media has for Boston.[/QUOTE]

Well it's 3 against 1 so far, and Rondo has improved quite a bit this year.
 
Man... watching the Bulls and Raptors try to out-suck each other is painful. It's like neither team is trying, and both have given up on the season, despite the fact that one of them has to make the playoffs.

I'm pretty sure no one on the Bulls even wants to make the playoffs, aside from Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah. The team gave up once they traded away Salmons and Thomas (Salmons being the more significant loss by far) for peanuts. The team was in 6th in the East- an even better position than they were in last year. Yet they traded one of their top scorers to a division rival and threw in the towel. It reminded me of the White Sox in the mid-late 90's.

It seems like every time the Raptors lose, the Bulls make it a point to lose, too. The Bulls lost to the fucking Nets tonight. The NETS! They of 12 wins.

Toronto has the advantage in the season series and thus they own the tiebreaker. The Bulls have a harder schedule in their last 3 games, but Toronto also doesn't have Chris Bosh. The two teams next play on Sunday, against each other. That one's on NBA TV. Should be... interesting.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']Man... watching the Bulls and Raptors try to out-suck each other is painful. It's like neither team is trying, and both have given up on the season, despite the fact that one of them has to make the playoffs.

I'm pretty sure no one on the Bulls even wants to make the playoffs, aside from Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah. The team gave up once they traded away Salmons and Thomas (Salmons being the more significant loss by far) for peanuts. The team was in 6th in the East- an even better position than they were in last year. Yet they traded one of their top scorers to a division rival and threw in the towel. It reminded me of the White Sox in the mid-late 90's.

It seems like every time the Raptors lose, the Bulls make it a point to lose, too. The Bulls lost to the fucking Nets tonight. The NETS! They of 12 wins.

Toronto has the advantage in the season series and thus they own the tiebreaker. The Bulls have a harder schedule in their last 3 games, but Toronto also doesn't have Chris Bosh. The two teams next play on Sunday, against each other. That one's on NBA TV. Should be... interesting.[/QUOTE]

What is sad is the Nets actually are still playing... they don't want to be recognized as the worst team so they started to play harder than they did at the beginning of the season.
 
[quote name='J7.']Well it's 3 against 1 so far, and Rondo has improved quite a bit this year.[/QUOTE]

And Rose hasn't? And nice "3 against 1" comment. You know, since everybody who has ever watched an NBA basketball game is the 4 people who commented on this. You sir, are an ass.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']Man... watching the Bulls and Raptors try to out-suck each other is painful. It's like neither team is trying, and both have given up on the season, despite the fact that one of them has to make the playoffs.

I'm pretty sure no one on the Bulls even wants to make the playoffs, aside from Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah. The team gave up once they traded away Salmons and Thomas (Salmons being the more significant loss by far) for peanuts. The team was in 6th in the East- an even better position than they were in last year. Yet they traded one of their top scorers to a division rival and threw in the towel. It reminded me of the White Sox in the mid-late 90's.

It seems like every time the Raptors lose, the Bulls make it a point to lose, too. The Bulls lost to the fucking Nets tonight. The NETS! They of 12 wins.

Toronto has the advantage in the season series and thus they own the tiebreaker. The Bulls have a harder schedule in their last 3 games, but Toronto also doesn't have Chris Bosh. The two teams next play on Sunday, against each other. That one's on NBA TV. Should be... interesting.[/QUOTE]

ESPN says refs cost the Bulls the game: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/po...y-calls-favor-nets-in-crushing-loss-for-bulls
 
[quote name='Drclaw411']And Rose hasn't? And nice "3 against 1" comment. You know, since everybody who has ever watched an NBA basketball game is the 4 people who commented on this. You sir, are an ass.[/QUOTE]

I'm just pointing out that we don't agree with you. You keep posting what ifs and blaming the media as your defense of Rose. I posted stats. I don't see how posting things that show Rondo is better and saying others back me up on that makes me an ass. I should call you names for calling me names because you're mad I don't agree with you. And looking at the stats again they show that Rondo has improved more than Rose this year. So he outplayed him directly in the playoffs last year & has improved more & his overall stats are better.

Rose
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 CHI 75 75 36.6 0.485 0.264 0.759 0.8 3.0 3.8 6.0 0.7 0.3 2.8 1.3 20.4
Career 156 155 36.8 0.480 0.240 0.772 1.0 2.8 3.8 6.2 0.8 0.3 2.6 1.4 18.5

Rondo
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
09-10 BOS 78 78 36.6 0.514 0.224 0.622 1.2 3.2 4.4 9.8 2.4 0.1 3.0 2.4 13.7
Career 313 260 30.8 0.490 0.250 0.631 1.1 3.3 4.4 6.7 1.9 0.1 2.3 2.4 10.7
 
[quote name='Drclaw411']And Rose hasn't? And nice "3 against 1" comment. You know, since everybody who has ever watched an NBA basketball game is the 4 people who commented on this. You sir, are an ass.[/QUOTE]
It's not just limited to CAG, a lot of sports journalists think Rondo is the better overall player as well.

And they are correct, I love Rose but Rondo is the better player.
 
Eh... you can make strong argument for either guy. Rose scores almost twice as many points as Rondo. Their rebound average is almost the same. Rondo gets a lot more assists, but that's only because he has KG, Allen, and Pierce to pass to. Who does Rose have? Pretty much nobody, since Salmons was traded.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']Eh... you can make strong argument for either guy. Rose scores almost twice as many points as Rondo. Their rebound average is almost the same. Rondo gets a lot more assists, but that's only because he has KG, Allen, and Pierce to pass to. Who does Rose have? Pretty much nobody, since Salmons was traded.[/QUOTE]

This. So very much this.
 
Yes Rondo has more people to pass to but let's not forget that the Bulls also have some capable shooters (Hinrich, Deng, Miller). Yes at times they can get streaky but so can Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. If you put anyone else at guard for Boston, you wouldn't get the same result. When Rondo came into the league, I personally thought he would be a bust since he stunk it up at Kentucky. But the one thing stats can't show is how much of a defensive presense he is. That is where I think he makes the difference compared to Rose.
 
Time will tell Rose v Rondo. We'll see what happens to Rondo when KG, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen are gone. We'll also see what happens to Rose if the Bulls get all-star in free agency this summer. There hasn't been enough time to really compare the two yet.
 
[quote name='lordopus99']Yes Rondo has more people to pass to but let's not forget that the Bulls also have some capable shooters (Hinrich, Deng, Miller). Yes at times they can get streaky but so can Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. If you put anyone else at guard for Boston, you wouldn't get the same result. When Rondo came into the league, I personally thought he would be a bust since he stunk it up at Kentucky. But the one thing stats can't show is how much of a defensive presense he is. That is where I think he makes the difference compared to Rose.[/QUOTE]

If you put anybody else at gaurd for Boston you get a different result? Umm, well you'd get a better result with Nash, Kidd, Rose, Williams, or Paul...so I guess better is different...

And Rondo makes the difference for Boston? Listen I don't challenge that Rondo is a very good player. But he is not as good as Rose. Honestly, with Rose in Boston they would be better and with Rondo in Chicago they would be worse. And on a side note, I really don't normally get in debates about this guy vs this guy. But I truly believe Rose is and will be the better player (by far, actually), and because Rondo is an extrodinarily cocky player, i'm going to defend Rose over him.

I absolutley can't stand the cockyness and "we'z gon win" attitude of Rondo/LeBitch/KG/Shaq/Vince Carter/Jose Calderon/Brian Scalebrine. Some of those guy's aren't even stars, but what all of those guys have in common is they way they are cocky. I'm a Bulls fan and Michael Jordan was one of the most cocky guys in the league, but he did it with his play and winning the game was his celebration. The group I listed loves to endzone dance and seems to get just as much (if not more) veryexcite out of showing up the other team and rubbing it in (especially when facing an inferior opponent who may play a perfect game yet lose by 25). LeBitch dancing in front of the other team's bench and dunking with 1 hand behind an ear, Scalabrine saying "I want to keep winning championships" as if he had anything to do with the one he has, Shaq calling himself "MDE: Most Dominant Ever", KG puckering his lips and pounding his chest in the face of opponents, Vince Carter playing his hardest against teams that have specific players he doesn't like (Kings wont beat the Magic until Nocinoni isn't on the Kings or Carter isn't on the Magic)....im rambling but I just hate that stuff with the white hot passion of a thousand suns.
 
[quote name='Matt Young']Eh... you can make strong argument for either guy. Rose scores almost twice as many points as Rondo. Their rebound average is almost the same. Rondo gets a lot more assists, but that's only because he has KG, Allen, and Pierce to pass to. Who does Rose have? Pretty much nobody, since Salmons was traded.[/QUOTE]

Well, if you want to really look at the stats then here is a real comparison:

Rose
FG% 101% - improvement
3pt% 110% - improvement
FT% 98% - worse
RPG -------- same
APG 96.8% - worse
SPG 87.5% - worse
BPG -------- same
TO 108% - worse
PPG 110% - improvement

- Minimal improvement to FG%, decent improvement to 3PT%, decent improvement to PPG.
- Worse FT%, Assists, Steals, turnovers.

Rondo

FG% 104% - improvement
3pt% 88.8% - worse
FT% 98.6% - worse
RPG -------- same
APG 144% - improvement
SPG 126% - improvement
BPG -------- same
TO 135% - worse
PPG 128% - improvement

- Decent improvement to FG%, huge improvement in Assists and Steals, considerable improvement to PPG.
- Worse at 3pt% which can be a streaky stat, worse FT%, considerably more turnovers.

Next I'll compare %'s between Rose and Rondo.
 
[quote name='Drclaw411']If you put anybody else at gaurd for Boston you get a different result? Umm, well you'd get a better result with Nash, Kidd, Rose, Williams, or Paul...so I guess better is different...

And Rondo makes the difference for Boston? Listen I don't challenge that Rondo is a very good player. But he is not as good as Rose. Honestly, with Rose in Boston they would be better and with Rondo in Chicago they would be worse. And on a side note, I really don't normally get in debates about this guy vs this guy. But I truly believe Rose is and will be the better player (by far, actually), and because Rondo is an extrodinarily cocky player, i'm going to defend Rose over him.

I absolutley can't stand the cockyness and "we'z gon win" attitude of Rondo/LeBitch/KG/Shaq/Vince Carter/Jose Calderon/Brian Scalebrine. Some of those guy's aren't even stars, but what all of those guys have in common is they way they are cocky. I'm a Bulls fan and Michael Jordan was one of the most cocky guys in the league, but he did it with his play and winning the game was his celebration. The group I listed loves to endzone dance and seems to get just as much (if not more) veryexcite out of showing up the other team and rubbing it in (especially when facing an inferior opponent who may play a perfect game yet lose by 25). LeBitch dancing in front of the other team's bench and dunking with 1 hand behind an ear, Scalabrine saying "I want to keep winning championships" as if he had anything to do with the one he has, Shaq calling himself "MDE: Most Dominant Ever", KG puckering his lips and pounding his chest in the face of opponents, Vince Carter playing his hardest against teams that have specific players he doesn't like (Kings wont beat the Magic until Nocinoni isn't on the Kings or Carter isn't on the Magic)....im rambling but I just hate that stuff with the white hot passion of a thousand suns.[/QUOTE]

I think Rondo is a better fit for Boston than Rose. Boston doesn't need someone to score points, they need someone to distribute well. I will give you this - Rose has the potential to be better than Rondo at some point in his career - even next year, but right now Rondo is the better player. Something not mentioned is that Rondo has come through in the clutch consistently this year.
 
[quote name='J7.']I think Rondo is a better fit for Boston than Rose. Boston doesn't need someone to score points, they need someone to distribute well. I will give you this - Rose has the potential to be better than Rondo at some point in his career - even next year, but right now Rondo is the better player. Something not mentioned is that Rondo has come through in the clutch consistently this year.[/QUOTE]

Rose has been very clutch for the Bulls as well this year. I can off the top of my head think of 7 times in which he was single handedly brought the Bulls back to win a game and/or took and hit a game winner.
 
Actually you wont get the same result. Rose plays and acts like a SG. Having another shooter doesn't help the Celts. They need someone to dish the ball. This is where Rondo comes into play. Rondo is 4th in NBA in Assists. 1st in Steals. Shoots over 50% from the Field (#1 guard shooting percentage). He outstats him in the categories that matter. And you think he isn't as good as Rose currently... come on. I hate certain players as well but I give up to the ones that actually back it up, which Rondo does.

Would Rondo or Rose be as good somewhere else... who knows... not everyone is great... some examples of recent past... Hedo Turkalou looked like a stud last year but this year he has been a joke... John Salmons was a bench warmer in Sac before he became the scorer he is today... I could go on about players that switch teams only to be busts or get better. It's the players that are around players that make players great.

As for your listing, Shaq in his hayday was the most dominant player. Nobody could stop him one-on-one. He was like Jordan in the fact he made everyone around him better. He took Kobe from being unknown to a third time champion. He took an unknown Marquette player to an NBA Champion. Both players have struggled to get back to the same spot they once shared with him (granted Kobe finally got it done with Pau, Odom, and Ariza).
 
The Bulls handily defeated the Bosh-less Raptors, which I expected. They still might blow it, though, since their remaining 2 games are against playoff teams- Boston and Charlotte- while the raptors play the awful Knicks and Pistons.
 
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