2010-2011 NBA Season Thread

[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Seriously, stop with the nonsense about the NBA hating Dwight Howard. You sound silly. The NBA is a business. Dwight Howard makes the NBA money. They don't hate him. Anytime anyone uses the "x professional league hates my team/player" excuse, it just sounds lame. Do you think they sit around in a dimly lit room and conspire on ways to screw Dwight Howard? Does that really sound like a realistic situation? Or could it just be that referees are human, they make bad calls all the time, and you simply posted a few videos of the bad calls they made against Dwight Howard? Sorry, but no one that shoots as many free throws as Howard can be hated by the league.

As far as the whole LeBron and the Cavaliers argument goes, this Cleveland team is clearly not the same one that surrounded James. If some people cannot see that, I really don't know what to tell them. Would that Cavalier team been good without LeBron? No, but they certainly wouldn't have been the debacle this one has been. Is James a great player? Clearly. Does he add 40 wins by just being on a team? Clearly not.[/QUOTE]


2006 finals. They did sit around in a room and fuck over the Mavs so you can't say that it is implausible.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Seriously, stop with the nonsense about the NBA hating Dwight Howard. You sound silly. The NBA is a business. Dwight Howard makes the NBA money. They don't hate him. Anytime anyone uses the "x professional league hates my team/player" excuse, it just sounds lame. Do you think they sit around in a dimly lit room and conspire on ways to screw Dwight Howard? Does that really sound like a realistic situation? Or could it just be that referees are human, they make bad calls all the time, and you simply posted a few videos of the bad calls they made against Dwight Howard? Sorry, but no one that shoots as many free throws as Howard can be hated by the league.

As far as the whole LeBron and the Cavaliers argument goes, this Cleveland team is clearly not the same one that surrounded James. If some people cannot see that, I really don't know what to tell them. Would that Cavalier team been good without LeBron? No, but they certainly wouldn't have been the debacle this one has been. Is James a great player? Clearly. Does he add 40 wins by just being on a team? Clearly not.[/QUOTE]

Maybe not 40, but Dave Berri's calculations put LeBron as being responsible for 26.5 wins last season. Sans LeBron, they were projected by that same system to win around 30 games this season. Varejao's injury cost them around 8 wins by those projections, and Mo Williams' disastrous play, Sessions' and Moon' lack of PT made most of the rest.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Wow...[/QUOTE]

I don't know what is shocking, this isn't some nutjob philosophy. Scoop Jackson, Marc Stein, and Bill Simmons have all talked about it. Bill Simmons had D Wade much farther down in his pyramid in his hardcover because of how bad the series was. Anyone who watched that series can attest to Stern and Jackson sitting in a room and screwing over the Mavs. Cuban got a 100K fine and still won't talk about the series because of how Mavs fans were robbed.

Chris Kaman gets wacked in the balls and the offender gets fined. Jason Terry his Micheal Finley in the balls while in a scrum for the ball and gets suspended (in the conference semi's but Stu Jackson clearly didn't want them to win and wanted the series to go longer).

Jerry Stackhouse goes up for a hard foul on Shaq and gets suspended in the finals. Anyone who says this wasn't the most blatant worst suspension ever in a pivotal series is beyond insane.

Game 3 ends on a Miami winner when the officials ignore the blatant over and back on the inbounds.

D Wade goes to the foul line with such frequency that being in his vicinity yields a trip to the line.
 
Oh yeah, that doesn't sound insane at all. You know, we never went to the moon, either. Sorry, but if you honestly think the league "was out to get your team," why would you watch the sport anymore? It's fixed, isn't it? At the very least, you wouldn't watch it and give it any credibility. It would be like wrestling, then. If you still watch it and think it's legitimate, then obviously no one conspired against your favorite team. There's a difference between bad breaks and bad officiating and a professional sports league conspiring to screw one of its own teams.
 
Mavs suck but I gotta agree with CaseyRyback. The 2006 NBA finals were a joke, the Heat were spoon fed that shit.

Also.. the Lakers should have won 3-peated last season. :D
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Oh yeah, that doesn't sound insane at all. You know, we never went to the moon, either. Sorry, but if you honestly think the league "was out to get your team," why would you watch the sport anymore? It's fixed, isn't it? At the very least, you wouldn't watch it and give it any credibility. It would be like wrestling, then. If you still watch it and think it's legitimate, then obviously no one conspired against your favorite team. There's a difference between bad breaks and bad officiating and a professional sports league conspiring to screw one of its own teams.[/QUOTE]

This is the same league that just went through a scandal over a ref fucking with games to try and beat and cover spreads. Do you really think he is the only person to ever do something like this?

Donaghy admitted that he knew that the Mavs were fucked and bet against them since he knew it was easy money.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4664280/donaghy-confirms-anti-cuban-bias



Phil Jackson certainly believes it was rigged and he fucking hates Cuban and the Mavs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=6211182


As far as not watching the NBA, I basically took a five year break before getting back into it this year. That is how bad that series was.
 
[quote name='MillerTime2523']Are we even arguing the same thing? :lol:

All I'm saying is "Cleveland + Lebron = 60+ wins, Cleveland - Lebron = 14 WINS!!! LEBRON JAMES BEST PLAYER TO EVER TOUCH A BASKETBALL!!!! MVP!!!!!!" all that shit is nonsense. They didn't just lose Lebron. And while they aren't going to be playoff contenders even if they did have those "role players," you honestly can't tell me that 1) Lebron would win 60+ with today's starters, or 2) this makes a legitimate claim for Lebron winning an MVP award.

I don't know what basically your argument about Cleveland being a horrible franchise has anything to do with that. :roll:[/QUOTE]

Maybe we are talking about two different points then.

My point is not even about LeBron its about the fact that the Cavs are shitty because they bad horrid choices for about 8 years. I am just sick of Cavs fans pretending that its all LeBrons fault or at the very least not even recognizing that most of the blame goes to the simply god awful decisions they have made leading up to this point.


On the other points, the NBA is definitely catering more to offensive players, hell there only a handful of defensive guys in the league to begin with. I think the style of play that Howard is going for is frowned upon and so thus seems like the NBA is going against him. Howard is one of like 3 remaining PURE Centers in the league. They have been phasing out his position for years now. If Mutumbo (not even going to look it up) was still playing he too would be fouling out each game.

EDIT: Do you guys remember when Shaq was allowed to do anything less of stab a guy on the court? Thats when the NBA loved the Center style of play...back then guards were allowed to really be punched in the face when going down the lane. Its just a style change.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Maybe we are talking about two different points then.

My point is not even about LeBron its about the fact that the Cavs are shitty because they bad horrid choices for about 8 years. I am just sick of Cavs fans pretending that its all LeBrons fault or at the very least not even recognizing that most of the blame goes to the simply god awful decisions they have made leading up to this point.[/QUOTE]
Nobody's saying it's Lebron's fault, as it's the fault of the management for selling out the future of the franchise while trying to appease Lebron for their short term title chances. Add some bad luck and that is what has caused what's happened this season.

The only things that have been said is that the 2011 Cavs aren't the 2010 Cavs minus Lebron. They lost their big men (leaving Varejao and then Hickson to take over at C) along with Lebron and had no real means of filling any holes in the off-season, so they were a shallow team that had no room for injuries to do okay at best this season.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']This is the same league that just went through a scandal over a ref fucking with games to try and beat and cover spreads. Do you really think he is the only person to ever do something like this?

Donaghy admitted that he knew that the Mavs were fucked and bet against them since he knew it was easy money.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4664280/donaghy-confirms-anti-cuban-bias



Phil Jackson certainly believes it was rigged and he fucking hates Cuban and the Mavs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=6211182


As far as not watching the NBA, I basically took a five year break before getting back into it this year. That is how bad that series was.[/QUOTE]

Wow...wow...wow. Your proof is a ref with a gambling problem and a coach that has butted heads with the league for decades and loves to cause controversy with the things he says? Seriously? Really? The only point I will give you is that it is not unlikely there have been other officials that may or may not have attempted to fix games. But sorry. I am not buying that the league conspired to screw the Mavs or any other team. Never happened.

And you took five years off? Why bother coming back at all? The league is fixed, but they don't admit it. Your Mavs are never gonna win anything, because the league hates Cuban. I would never come back. At least, not until Stern retires. Sorry, but you cannot have it both ways. You can't say the league is fixed, but then come back and watch it. That makes zero sense.
 
lol mavs is all that needs to be said glad they got exposed like a bunch of a soft ass bitches that they are. j terry should be lucky hes even on the court day in and day out without refs calling a technical foul on him for having that big ass head obstruct the view of half the opposing team.


and mavs fans are still butthurt over 2006? hate to break it to all of you and i know fans will never admit it but all this bitching about how the refs screwed you and were out to get the mavs etc is a crock of shit when your entire postseason was extended off a ref no call against T Duncan when he got hacked worse than dwight howard by 3 defenders in the final seconds of game 7 (whether or not he makes the free throws or not is a diff story but still should have gone to the line as much as i hate to say it) to even force overtime so be glad you even made it to the WCF let alone the finals off someones else dime.
 
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[quote name='lordopus99']Guard league comment extends more beyond MVP. Who is on the foul line majority of games... yep that's right guards and Bron/Durant. Why you ask... any pussy foul gets called in a guards favor. Big guys have to get damn right taken to the ground in order to get a call unless you are Dwight Howard (a complete other discussion). This is why the NBA is a guard league.



Dwight Howard and gang can only do so much with a terrible offensive coach. Let's all game run pick in rolls at the top of the key or play dish into Howard and have him score or dish out to a 3pt shot. Seriously, the play calling doesn't go any further beyond. Also factor in these big changes... starting lineup rehauled midseason including shipping off Howard's backup, a good player in Gortat. In addition, some key injuries (Bass and Redick). With all that, we are only 6 games back from the leader.

As for Howard and the fouls, here are a few quick youtube search to backup the point. Howard is the only big guy that gets called for this shit. Again, the NBA hates him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36nT2osudy0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwtIe_TmyV8
See 1:09 foul. No other center gets caled for handchecks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIWxNQ6iFm0[/QUOTE]

Well, you obviously know LeBron and Durant aren't guards, so I'm not really sure why you're arguing about that. Looking at the stats, it looks like Howard averages 3 more free throw attempts per game then Durant, I mean, how much more do you want? In fact, he's the league leader in free throw attempts! I do have to agree that the coaching is suspect, I mean, they bring in Richardson to just bomb threes, wtf is that about. I really can't buy the excuses about the injuries, the Bulls were without Noah and Boozer for extended periods of time, and still have no shooting guard, and yet they're still on top. At some point, you can't keep making excuses about how it's someone elses' fault and look at yourself in the mirror. Not you specifically, the Magic team.:)
 
[quote name='docvinh']Well, you obviously know LeBron and Durant aren't guards, so I'm not really sure why you're arguing about that. Looking at the stats, it looks like Howard averages 3 more free throw attempts per game then Durant, I mean, how much more do you want? In fact, he's the league leader in free throw attempts! I do have to agree that the coaching is suspect, I mean, they bring in Richardson to just bomb threes, wtf is that about. I really can't buy the excuses about the injuries, the Bulls were without Noah and Boozer for extended periods of time, and still have no shooting guard, and yet they're still on top. At some point, you can't keep making excuses about how it's someone elses' fault and look at yourself in the mirror. Not you specifically, the Magic team.:)[/QUOTE]

How does shooting free throws have anything to do with the fouls called on him? The majority of his fouls are on the defensive end for things like "hand checks" and "clean blocks" as seen in youtube clips I posted.

As for the non-Chicago two teams above us, both have been struggling. Boston since their trade of Perkins have been very hit or miss. Miami goes on streaks of wins and losses. The gap between us and those two will close up. But yes, Chicago looks like the one to beat in the East. Lets see if they live up to hype.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']God, ESPN has got to me the most annoying network to listen to for anything about sports.[/QUOTE]

Radio, tv or both?
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Keith Bogans, the oft-derided SG on the Bulls ("they have no SG"):

TS%: .548
eFG%: .540

Derrick Rose:

TS%: .541
eFG%: .478

Just sayin'.[/QUOTE]

Hey, I'm a Bulls fan and I'm saying Bogans is a backup player that's starting. I'm not sure where you're pulling those stats, but I see Bogans shooting under 40 percent from the field and 63 percent from the free throw line. That's terrible by any standard.:)
 
[quote name='lordopus99']How does shooting free throws have anything to do with the fouls called on him? The majority of his fouls are on the defensive end for things like "hand checks" and "clean blocks" as seen in youtube clips I posted.

As for the non-Chicago two teams above us, both have been struggling. Boston since their trade of Perkins have been very hit or miss. Miami goes on streaks of wins and losses. The gap between us and those two will close up. But yes, Chicago looks like the one to beat in the East. Lets see if they live up to hype.[/QUOTE]

I'll give you the blocks thing, but that seems to happen a lot nowadays, I think different refs call things differently. As far as the hand checks, I've definitely seen Noah get called a lot for that since he hand checks quite a bit. I really think if Orlando utilized Richardson better, they could be a real contender.
 
[quote name='docvinh']Hey, I'm a Bulls fan and I'm saying Bogans is a backup player that's starting. I'm not sure where you're pulling those stats, but I see Bogans shooting under 40 percent from the field and 63 percent from the free throw line. That's terrible by any standard.:)[/QUOTE]

The majority of Bogans' attempts are from 3PT, which is why he measures better in True Shooting Percentage and Effective Field Goal Percentage than Rose. In contrast to Bogans, Billups is an example of a higher-usage efficient scorer with a relatively low FG% (in his case, because shoots quite a few 3s at a high rate, and gets to the FT line).
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']The majority of Bogans' attempts are from 3PT, which is why he measures better in True Shooting Percentage and Effective Field Goal Percentage than Rose. In contrast to Bogans, Billups is an example of a higher-usage efficient scorer with a relatively low FG% (in his case, because shoots quite a few 3s at a high rate, and gets to the FT line).[/QUOTE]

I can at least see it with Billups, but I think Bogans stats would be worse if he got more playing time, and certainly wouldn't approach Roses' production even if he was given the chance.
 
My argument wasn't that Bogans is a great player, it's that Rose is seventh on his team in TS%, on a team allegedly loaded with a bunch of low-level offensive players. The narrative built around Rose and the Bulls just doesn't match up with reality. Even this past offseason, the thought was that they'd be an instant title contender if LeBron or Wade signed with them. They didn't get Wade or LeBron, but they did get a low post scorer (their biggest hole) in Boozer, and Rose and Noah have further improved their games.

If there's any award Rose should have a death grip on, it should be Most Improved Player.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Wow...wow...wow. Your proof is a ref with a gambling problem and a coach that has butted heads with the league for decades and loves to cause controversy with the things he says? Seriously? Really? The only point I will give you is that it is not unlikely there have been other officials that may or may not have attempted to fix games. But sorry. I am not buying that the league conspired to screw the Mavs or any other team. Never happened.

And you took five years off? Why bother coming back at all? The league is fixed, but they don't admit it. Your Mavs are never gonna win anything, because the league hates Cuban. I would never come back. At least, not until Stern retires. Sorry, but you cannot have it both ways. You can't say the league is fixed, but then come back and watch it. That makes zero sense.[/QUOTE]


I believe I listed three writers, a referee who goes back to jail if he lies, and Phillip.

As far as asking why I finally came back, it is like anyone who loves something. How many times have there been scandals in college basketball for point shaving? Does that taint everything that happens in the sport? Stu Jackson hasn't been seen since he worked over the Mavs and after a time you just have to let things go and enjoy things for what they are. This is a league full of infamous games and series so it isn't like this was the first or last time it happens. I just have to accept that this is one sport where the league has the most direct impact on events that transpire on the court.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']My argument wasn't that Bogans is a great player, it's that Rose is seventh on his team in TS%, on a team allegedly loaded with a bunch of low-level offensive players. The narrative built around Rose and the Bulls just doesn't match up with reality. Even this past offseason, the thought was that they'd be an instant title contender if LeBron or Wade signed with them. They didn't get Wade or LeBron, but they did get a low post scorer (their biggest hole) in Boozer, and Rose and Noah have further improved their games.

If there's any award Rose should have a death grip on, it should be Most Improved Player.[/QUOTE]

Ahhh, gotcha. Definitely agree that Rose is the most improved player, although Dorrell Wright would have a strong case too.
 
The NBA needs to show the public, which they probably never will, how these people vote for MVP.

Is it:
The best player on the best team?
The player who has the best stats?
The player who has great stats and uses his time most effectively on the court?
The player who couldn't be replaced by another player at his position without devastating effects?
The most popular player in the media?

There are more questions everyone can think of for sure, but those first 4 should all go into the voting. I think Bill Simmons has a good point in that, the award voting process should be made public and they should have to defend their pick. A case could be made for a ton of guys this year and I would be really interested to see what some of these people say about their picks.
 
Except that Most Improve Player is a shitty award that no one cares about and is basically a insult to how Rose is playing. Thamaster, as I have stated just a few post ago I agree. The voting system simply makes no sense most of the time.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Except that Most Improve Player is a shitty award that no one cares about and is basically a insult to how Rose is playing. Thamaster, as I have stated just a few post ago I agree. The voting system simply makes no sense most of the time.[/QUOTE]

Oh wow sorry man, somehow didn't see it. I basically quoted you hahaha.

Well the 6,7, and 8 seeds for the west are now in complete and utter chaos mode. Possibly the 5th seed but I don't think Denver's going to give it up.

Edit:
5. Denver (46-29) has 7 games left, 4 against .500 teams or better
6. Portland (44-32) has 6 games left, 3 against .500 teams or better (MEM)
7. New Orleans (43-33) has 6 games left, 3 against .500 teams or better (HOU, MEM)
8. Memphis (43-33)has 6 games left, 2 against .500 teams or better (POR, NOH)
9. Houston (40-36) has 6 games left, 3 against .500 teams or better (NOH)

To clarify, I think 5-8 are certainly going to be in. I think the Rockets with only 6 games left simply have too big of a gap to make up. But things could definitely shift 6-8 as well as 1-2 (maybe 1-3).
 
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[quote name='thamaster24']Oh wow sorry man, somehow didn't see it. I basically quoted you hahaha.

Well the 6,7, and 8 seeds for the west are now in complete and utter chaos mode. Possibly the 5th seed but I don't think Denver's going to give it up.[/QUOTE]


portland is currently in 6th place and i don't see new orleans overtaken them and with rudy gay out for memphis portland gonna take the 6th seed. that way we the la lakers can avoid going to portland
 
[quote name='lordopus99']How does shooting free throws have anything to do with the fouls called on him?[/QUOTE]

It has nothing at all to do with fouls that are called on him. It has a lot to do, though, with debunking the myth that he's hated by the league, and the referees are out to get him. You're not shooting that many free throws if the league hates you.

Oh, and can someone remind me again who got the better end of the Nugget/Knick deal?
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']It has nothing at all to do with fouls that are called on him. It has a lot to do, though, with debunking the myth that he's hated by the league, and the referees are out to get him. You're not shooting that many free throws if the league hates you.

Oh, and can someone remind me again who got the better end of the Nugget/Knick deal?[/QUOTE]

Knicks. :lol:
 
LeBron's shooting 58% since the All-Star break. 28 points, 8 boards, over 6 assists a game. #1 in PER, #1 in offensive Win Shares, #1 in total Win Shares, #2 in Win Shares/48 (right behind Chris Paul - if LeBron keeps shooting 58%, he'll end the season #1).

Just sayin'.

bigdaddybruce:

Nuggets. As much as I rag on Kobe or Rose, Carmelo is more overrated than them. I think he'll be properly rated by this time next season, though. His reputation is already taking a hit. Getting Lawson more time also created an addition by subtraction situation with Billups, too.
 
I've been saying since day one the Nuggets are going to be a great team. Going to be interesting come playoff time though. I feel like the average players do well in the regular season but you need a star to win a title. They're playing great though, it's going to be interesting to see them take on a legitimate team in a 7 game series.
 
[quote name='MillerTime2523']I've been saying since day one the Nuggets are going to be a great team. Going to be interesting come playoff time though. I feel like the average players do well in the regular season but you need a star to win a title. They're playing great though, it's going to be interesting to see them take on a legitimate team in a 7 game series.[/QUOTE]

They remind me of that Pistons team, '04?, with Billups on it. None of the guys were huge stars, but they won it. If they can get past the Thunder in the first round, a big if, I can see them being absolute hell for whatever team in the second round. That kind of team basketball they're playing is rare in the league today, and its nice to see them getting some big wins.

I can't believe that Odom just let K-Mart run over him at the end of that game. No way should he have been that close to the rim, let alone able to jump up for the tip in. Crazy.
 
fuck yeah Bulls beat the Celtics 97-81. Rose goes for 30 pts and 8 ast. Now the Bulls lead both Boston and Miami by 4 games for 1st place in the East with 4 games left to play. Bulls remaining schedule.

Tomorrow April 8th @ Cle
Sunday April 10th @ Magic
Tuesday April 12th @ Knicks
Wednesday April 13th Vs. Nets

Damn I'm jacked for the playoffs to come to see what the Bulls can do!
 
Yeah, so Rose kicks the shit out of the team that the NBA wants you to still believe is apparently the best in the world.

Again, the MVP race is closed....period. Its Rose. He has taken down the best of the nba single handed...what more does the guy have to do. At this point the only people who argue that he is not are the ones that just prefer that their favorite player win. This includes all the ESPN "analyst" who seem to just throw random names in the discussion just so they can bring in chris broussard to argue it.


D-Howard gets consideration, Kevin Durant gets a consideration, if either of those get it than I wouldnt bat an eye but it clearly needs to go to Rose.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']It has nothing at all to do with fouls that are called on him. It has a lot to do, though, with debunking the myth that he's hated by the league, and the referees are out to get him. You're not shooting that many free throws if the league hates you.

Oh, and can someone remind me again who got the better end of the Nugget/Knick deal?[/QUOTE]

[quote name='advanced']Knicks. :lol:[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']LeBron's shooting 58% since the All-Star break. 28 points, 8 boards, over 6 assists a game. #1 in PER, #1 in offensive Win Shares, #1 in total Win Shares, #2 in Win Shares/48 (right behind Chris Paul - if LeBron keeps shooting 58%, he'll end the season #1).

Just sayin'.

bigdaddybruce:

Nuggets. As much as I rag on Kobe or Rose, Carmelo is more overrated than them. I think he'll be properly rated by this time next season, though. His reputation is already taking a hit. Getting Lawson more time also created an addition by subtraction situation with Billups, too.[/QUOTE]

This isnt a comment at any one of you guys just an overall comment. Why do people continue to believe that the Knicks "broke up the band," and I have heard that reference to 04 pistons a couple times. Did we all just forget that the same group of people where below .500 when they were in NY? They are 6th in the East...so they went from what....5th to 6th? :roll: It actually proves my point that it was the most even trade of all time. Denver gelled much quicker than anyone excepted and are playing better than the Knicks but lets not get carried away here.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']This isnt a comment at any one of you guys just an overall comment. Why do people continue to believe that the Knicks "broke up the band," and I have heard that reference to 04 pistons a couple times. Did we all just forget that the same group of people where below .500 when they were in NY? They are 6th in the East...so they went from what....5th to 6th? :roll: It actually proves my point that it was the most even trade of all time. Denver gelled much quicker than anyone excepted and are playing better than the Knicks but lets not get carried away here.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say they broke up the band, but I would say that they threw a huge wrench named Carmelo into their gears for this season. The Knicks before the trade were all about ball movement and transition. Carmelo likes to set up on the wing and take his guy 1 on 1. At first he didn't buy in, but he slowly is. When he fully does, it'll be great, but he hasn't yet.

If 'Melo and STAT can gel better than they have this season, with a training camp under their belts, they'll be a fierce two-headed dragon with a decent team behind them. They'll be one and done in the playoffs this season though (which is what this thread is about).
 
They were called a one and done team before the trade, which is a huge improvement for a team that has been terrible for so long. They just need to do a good job in the off-season to build around the core they have and they can make a bigger splash next year.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the off-season goes for the Cavs now that they'll have draft picks that help them fill in the holes they couldn't touch last summer. JJ Hickson is probably the brightest young player they have right now, so they need to get a center to let him go back to PF.
 
Once again, the problems with the Melo trade are numerous.

For one, Melo, like Amare, is not a good defender. So now, you have two awful defenders that are playing 35+ minutes a game. You can hide one bad defender that's in your starting rotations in the NBA. You cannot hide two. Plus, when your two biggest stars do not play defense, it's kind of hard to tell everyone that it's their job.

Then, Melo and Amare are two very similar offensive players. Both like to get the ball and play isolation. That means, you're going to have a LOT of possessions where the ball goes into them, and the offense just stops moving. When those guys are scoring, it's not a big deal. When they aren't, though, it's hard to suddenly get the offense flowing and moving again.

Before the deal, the Knicks needed things, especially a defensive center, to be a legitimate contender. Now, they still do need things. At least before, though, they had pieces they could move to actually acquire what they needed. With even less draft picks than before, they have to rely solely on the free agent.
 
Its getting embarrassing now when people try to argue this. It reminds me of that friend everyone has who constantly bitches about being alone but will go out of his way to find any problems with prospective girls no matter how ridiculous. "Shes nice..but I cant be with someone who has nobbie knees." Then he spends all of his time talking about his ex and how great they were together even though in reality all they did was argue and fight.


Knicks fans and critics are vastly overrating the cast of people that left (I seriously dont know how many fucking times you have to mention that they were a BELOW .500 TEAM and have been for many years) and now they want to just go out of their way to pick part the new cast.

And for the love of god enough with the "1 or 2 pieces away," game. Fans of the Detroit Lions have believed they were just 1 or 2 players away from a Superbowl for years. Clippers fans think they are just 1 or 2 guys away. People bring this up when they want throw all facts out of the window. It doesnt matter that the Knicks have been shit since 0 fucking 3 (thats 8 years by the way) but hey their only 1 or 2 players away from a god damn dynasty right?
 
I won't quote all the stuff I'm replying to, since there's many, but here goes:

The NBA MVP isn't just about stats. You can do that in baseball with no problem, but basketball is a game where a team relies so heavily upon its best player for things that you can't create a number for, i.e. defensive rotations and setting an overall tone. Players like Bird and Magic set the entire tone for their team, and if you look back, some years Magic won the MVP, his stats won't blow you away. He was simply the best, though, because he willed his team to never let up. Rose defines that for this year; he is the only person on his team who can get his own shot or create shots for others. Lebron, no matter how many stats you throw out, just doesn't impress because he plays with Wade, who can do the exact same things, thereby taking pressure off Lebron (and vise versa). Also, Lebron has never had the feel of a winner. For some reason, he doesn't push his team to the level of greatness that other "winners" have.

And the Nuggets don't remind me of the Pistons; they remind me of Karl's old Supersonic teams. Those teams had a ton of players who could play multiple positions, so they could field a lineup that matched up with any team they met. They also had a ton of scorers, so if a guy had an off-night, they just turned to the next man to get it done. Carmelo is a great one-on-one player, but as to fitting in to an offensive flow, he kills other people on the team. As stated, he's a terrible team defender. The Knicks and Heat had better hope some of the smaller market owners don't win out in the upcoming labor negotiation, because if they do, those two teams will be playing 2 or 3 on five for the next five years.
 
I would say Dirk carried him team more than Rose. Dirk's second best player won't make the Bulls starting five.
 
I like Dirk, but he reminds me of Patrick Ewing: at the end of important games, he takes bad fallaway jumpers rather than going to the hole.
 
[quote name='skinkrawl']I like Dirk, but he reminds me of Patrick Ewing: at the end of important games, he takes bad fallaway jumpers rather than going to the hole.[/QUOTE]

He has the highest FG percentage in the league at the end of games. Dude literally plays with no one else on his team that can create his own shot. Everyone knows he is getting the ball and yet he still delivers. You can talk shit about him not dominating the boards or doing other big men things, but don't knock his scoring at the end of games.
 
I love Dirk but it just proves my previous point. The guy cant rebound or bang like other PF but is a top player and brings a lot to the table.

So why is it different for Melo or STAT? Its not. If someone is top at their position you adjust to them.
 
[quote name='skinkrawl']I won't quote all the stuff I'm replying to, since there's many, but here goes:

The NBA MVP isn't just about stats. You can do that in baseball with no problem, but basketball is a game where a team relies so heavily upon its best player for things that you can't create a number for, i.e. defensive rotations and setting an overall tone. Players like Bird and Magic set the entire tone for their team, and if you look back, some years Magic won the MVP, his stats won't blow you away. He was simply the best, though, because he willed his team to never let up. Rose defines that for this year; he is the only person on his team who can get his own shot or create shots for others. Lebron, no matter how many stats you throw out, just doesn't impress because he plays with Wade, who can do the exact same things, thereby taking pressure off Lebron (and vise versa). Also, Lebron has never had the feel of a winner. For some reason, he doesn't push his team to the level of greatness that other "winners" have.

And the Nuggets don't remind me of the Pistons; they remind me of Karl's old Supersonic teams. Those teams had a ton of players who could play multiple positions, so they could field a lineup that matched up with any team they met. They also had a ton of scorers, so if a guy had an off-night, they just turned to the next man to get it done. Carmelo is a great one-on-one player, but as to fitting in to an offensive flow, he kills other people on the team. As stated, he's a terrible team defender. The Knicks and Heat had better hope some of the smaller market owners don't win out in the upcoming labor negotiation, because if they do, those two teams will be playing 2 or 3 on five for the next five years.[/QUOTE]


You are crazy. I didn't fully read your post earlier, but the fact that you compared Karl's Super Sonics to this Nuggets team is absolutely crazy. Ty Lawson and Ray Felton combined couldn't hold The Glove's jock. GP was one of the best point guards ever and he played with a fucking freak of nature. When the Rain Man was right he was one of the most dominant players in the game. They had some decent players around them, but that was a two man show. To even compare the Nuggets with the skill guys on that team is crazy.


Also to Soodmeg, though his totals may be below most other elite PF's Dirk isn't someone who can't rebound. His numbers are down because of his knee's this year, but he usually averages about 8 a season. That isn't enough for someone in his position, but it isn't terrible either. Doesn't dominate and can't rebound are totally different statements. Melo wishes his team would be 50-15 this season with him healthy.
 
[quote name='skinkrawl']I like Dirk, but he reminds me of Patrick Ewing: at the end of important games, he takes bad fallaway jumpers rather than going to the hole.[/QUOTE]

This is easily the dumbest shit I've ever read.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']This is easily the dumbest shit I've ever read.[/QUOTE]

This isn't just in reply to you, but to the other post about Dirk as well. Fully aware that Dirk has the highest field goal percentage at the end of games, but what has he done in the playoffs when it counts? That's one of the reasons you can't rely on stats for basketball; some guys can fill it up and kill during the regular season, but in the playoffs, when defenses tighten and the game slows, they can't get it done. Same can be said for a lot of guys who were incredible NBA players.

And the Nuggets are similar to Karl's Sonics. I'm not comparing player by player, I meant as a team. They are interchangeable and have multiple scorers. You must not have been paying attention to those Sonics teams, because they had way more than Payton and Kemp. Ricky Pierce, Detlef, and Eddie Johnson could light it up on any night, and they had bangers like Michael Cage who did the dirty work. That's what the Nuggets have now, a lot of firepower as well as some guys who aren't stat machines but do important things. If they are able to keep that team together for awhile and let them gel, they could be really good.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Knicks fans and critics are vastly overrating the cast of people that left (I seriously dont know how many fucking times you have to mention that they were a BELOW .500 TEAM and have been for many years) and now they want to just go out of their way to pick part the new cast.

And for the love of god enough with the "1 or 2 pieces away," game. Fans of the Detroit Lions have believed they were just 1 or 2 players away from a Superbowl for years. Clippers fans think they are just 1 or 2 guys away. People bring this up when they want throw all facts out of the window. It doesnt matter that the Knicks have been shit since 0 fucking 3 (thats 8 years by the way) but hey their only 1 or 2 players away from a god damn dynasty right?[/QUOTE]

Well, for one, they weren't under .500. Facts are usually a good thing to have. They were actually a couple of games over, just about the same record they are now with Melo. So, absolutely no difference. Thus, not a good move in the short-term. As far as them being under .500 for years, that's pretty much irrelevant, seeing as they had a different team this year. They could have been under .500 for three decades. They brought in new players and weren't under .500 anymore.

No one said they were a player or two away from a dynasty, but they are not any closer to one now, either. But they are minus draft picks and popular players and people who fit into the system. So, a bad move in the long-term, as well.

This team is almost guaranteed to be bounced in the first round in five games. And next year, unless a miracle happens, and some people fall into their laps that actually play defense, they will win about 44 games and get bounced from the first around again.
 
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