2010-2011 NBA Season Thread

The Sonics clearly had other pieces but you are comparing a team of glorified role players to a team that had two of the most dominant players of their era. That makes absolutely no sense. Also dirk averages like 30 in the playoffs. It is a total farce that he doesn't perform in the playoffs. He may not have the series wins since the finals but be always is good for at least one game in a series. No star player should be required to go for 40 just to get his team to advance and that is what has been required in recent years. Terry and kidd are the two that have been the biggest problem in the playoffs. The pas two years they have been terrible on both ends.
 
I'm not comparing the Sonics and Nuggets player-by-player. I said as teams they are alike in that their players are largely interchangeable and their ability to field multiple lineups. For several years, there were games where Kemp or Payton were on the bench at the end of games because Karl went with the hot hand, just as he is doing now. Later on, they were both fixtures (the year before and during their Finals run). I think this Nuggets team, if left intact or changed in small ways, can become almost as good as that Sonic team (except the year they went to the Finals).
 
[quote name='skinkrawl']I won't quote all the stuff I'm replying to, since there's many, but here goes:

The NBA MVP isn't just about stats. You can do that in baseball with no problem, but basketball is a game where a team relies so heavily upon its best player for things that you can't create a number for, i.e. defensive rotations and setting an overall tone. Players like Bird and Magic set the entire tone for their team, and if you look back, some years Magic won the MVP, his stats won't blow you away. He was simply the best, though, because he willed his team to never let up. Rose defines that for this year; he is the only person on his team who can get his own shot or create shots for others. Lebron, no matter how many stats you throw out, just doesn't impress because he plays with Wade, who can do the exact same things, thereby taking pressure off Lebron (and vise versa). Also, Lebron has never had the feel of a winner. For some reason, he doesn't push his team to the level of greatness that other "winners" have.

And the Nuggets don't remind me of the Pistons; they remind me of Karl's old Supersonic teams. Those teams had a ton of players who could play multiple positions, so they could field a lineup that matched up with any team they met. They also had a ton of scorers, so if a guy had an off-night, they just turned to the next man to get it done. Carmelo is a great one-on-one player, but as to fitting in to an offensive flow, he kills other people on the team. As stated, he's a terrible team defender. The Knicks and Heat had better hope some of the smaller market owners don't win out in the upcoming labor negotiation, because if they do, those two teams will be playing 2 or 3 on five for the next five years.[/QUOTE]

This is all that needs to be said:

Magic's three MVP seasons were the best statistical years of his career.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']This is all that needs to be said:

Magic's three MVP seasons were the best statistical years of his career.[/QUOTE]

And for some years that Jordan and Bird won, it wasn't their best statistical year. You can argue stats to the end of time. You could give someone the stats for ten players from a particular year and have them pick the MVP blind, and many years you'd end up with some guy who jacked up shots, went after stats, and his team went 45-37 and were bounced in the first round. As the NBA has added more and more teams, it's diluted what stats mean. Stats after the 90s expansion teams didn't mean nearly as much as they had before. You have some guys who end up with huge numbers by beating up on lesser teams and then stinking against the top competition.

My definition of the MVP/best player of the league is the guy who is able to impose his will on his team AND against other teams. He fashions his team in his mold and makes them better. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Thomas (even though he was only a Finals MVP), Duncan, and others did that. You look at their teams and how they won championships, and it was modeled after their game. This year, it's Rose. He's humble, plays hard, works on defense, and is able to impose his will on other teams whenever he wants.
 
[quote name='skinkrawl']And for some years that Jordan and Bird won, it wasn't their best statistical year. You can argue stats to the end of time. You could give someone the stats for ten players from a particular year and have them pick the MVP blind, and many years you'd end up with some guy who jacked up shots, went after stats, and his team went 45-37 and were bounced in the first round. As the NBA has added more and more teams, it's diluted what stats mean. Stats after the 90s expansion teams didn't mean nearly as much as they had before. You have some guys who end up with huge numbers by beating up on lesser teams and then stinking against the top competition.

My definition of the MVP/best player of the league is the guy who is able to impose his will on his team AND against other teams. He fashions his team in his mold and makes them better. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Thomas (even though he was only a Finals MVP), Duncan, and others did that. You look at their teams and how they won championships, and it was modeled after their game. This year, it's Rose. He's humble, plays hard, works on defense, and is able to impose his will on other teams whenever he wants.[/QUOTE]

No again. Bird was ridiculous in his three MVP seasons as well. He didn't win in 86-87 because Magic had a very similar season and won, and Jordan's 87-88 season was off the wall nuts. Otherwise, he may well have had five straight MVPs. Jordan's 97-98 MVP should have gone to Malone, and the previous year should have gone to Jordan. Jordan's other four MVP seasons were deserved. With guys who won multiple MVPs, you have to measure their performance against the rest of the league from that season, not against their own performance elsewhere.

You're just making stuff up at this point. Here's a list of players with the best statistical seasons of the last ____ seasons, by measure of a stat that favors usage rate (in short, shot-chucking stat compilers are rated more highly by this stat than in essentially every other advanced metric): http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_yearly.html

Here's another, that takes into account the player's production, his opponent's production, and his team's performance with the player on and off the court: http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG8.HTM

Here's another, similar stat measure (team performance weighted) with the league's leader for each season going back 40+ years: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_yearly.html

The Bulls are winning because their defense is the best in the NBA. They were outside the top ten last season (their offense was also extremely inefficient). The Bulls are nearly nine points per 100 possessions better defensively with Rose off the floor than on, and are +7.4 total points per 100 possessions with him off the floor, +8.7 with him on.

To break it down further, the Bulls give up 103.2 points per 100 possessions with Rose on the floor. Which is good - that'd put them 4th in the NBA this season, 4 points better than league average. With him off the floor? 94.8, 13 points better than league average. For a comparison, that would be the greatest defensive performance of all-time. No team even comes close. Not the Bad Boy Pistons, not the 90s Knicks or Heat, not the 00s Spurs or Pistons.

To use the "sets the tone of his team" argument, ie, how a team performs with him on versus off the floor, Luol Deng has better on/off splits than Rose, while playing more minutes. The Bulls are +5.4 points per 100 possessions better with Deng on the floor than off. Rose? +1.4.

Luol Deng, 2010-11 NBA MVP
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']No again. Bird was ridiculous in his three MVP seasons as well. He didn't win in 86-87 because Magic had a very similar season and won, and Jordan's 87-88 season was off the wall nuts. Otherwise, he may well have had five straight MVPs. Jordan's 97-98 MVP should have gone to Malone, and the previous year should have gone to Jordan. Jordan's other four MVP seasons were deserved. With guys who won multiple MVPs, you have to measure their performance against the rest of the league from that season, not against their own performance elsewhere.

You're just making stuff up at this point. Here's a list of players with the best statistical seasons of the last ____ seasons, by measure of a stat that favors usage rate (in short, shot-chucking stat compilers are rated more highly by this stat than in essentially every other advanced metric): http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_yearly.html

Here's another, that takes into account the player's production, his opponent's production, and his team's performance with the player on and off the court: http://www.82games.com/1011/ROLRTG8.HTM

Here's another, similar stat measure (team performance weighted) with the league's leader for each season going back 40+ years: http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_yearly.html

The Bulls are winning because their defense is the best in the NBA. They were outside the top ten last season (their offense was also extremely inefficient). The Bulls are nearly nine points per 100 possessions better defensively with Rose off the floor than on, and are +7.4 total points per 100 possessions with him off the floor, +8.7 with him on.

To break it down further, the Bulls give up 103.2 points per 100 possessions with Rose on the floor. Which is good - that'd put them 4th in the NBA this season, 4 points better than league average. With him off the floor? 94.8, 13 points better than league average. For a comparison, that would be the greatest defensive performance of all-time. No team even comes close. Not the Bad Boy Pistons, not the 90s Knicks or Heat, not the 00s Spurs or Pistons.

To use the "sets the tone of his team" argument, ie, how a team performs with him on versus off the floor, Luol Deng has better on/off splits than Rose, while playing more minutes. The Bulls are +5.4 points per 100 possessions better with Deng on the floor than off. Rose? +1.4.

Luol Deng, 2010-11 NBA MVP[/QUOTE]

Eh, I would argue that if they didn't have Rose, everyone else, primarily Deng, would have to pick up the scoring load, which would affect their defensive performance. That's something that really can't be effectively measured.
 
[quote name='docvinh']Eh, I would argue that if they didn't have Rose, everyone else, primarily Deng, would have to pick up the scoring load, which would affect their defensive performance. That's something that really can't be effectively measured.[/QUOTE]

It can, and is. I noted the Bulls' all-time defense prowess with Rose not on the court.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']It can, and is. I noted the Bulls' all-time defense prowess with Rose not on the court.[/QUOTE]

So the team is better off without Rose on the floor? I don't think anyone is buying that argument. We've seen when Luol Deng is the leader, and it ain't pretty.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Uhhh, I will not let the C's embarrassing 23 point loss to the Heat over the weekend not get mentioned.[/QUOTE]

The Celtics have problems. Big problems.
 
[quote name='docvinh']So the team is better off without Rose on the floor? I don't think anyone is buying that argument. We've seen when Luol Deng is the leader, and it ain't pretty.[/QUOTE]

Defensively, yes. By a mile. The Bulls are still 1.4 points per 100 possessions better with Rose on the floor than they are off, however.

Deng didn't have the current set of teammates or coaches that he and Rose now have when Deng was the Bulls' leader. Totally arbitrary comparison. I will say, though, that Deng had an excellent 06-07 season, another Bulls team that was great defensively and had some measure of success.

To put it bluntly, there just aren't statistical measures that support Rose's MVP candidacy.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Defensively, yes. By a mile. The Bulls are still 1.4 points per 100 possessions better with Rose on the floor than they are off, however.

Deng didn't have the current set of teammates or coaches that he and Rose now have when Deng was the Bulls' leader. Totally arbitrary comparison. I will say, though, that Deng had an excellent 06-07 season, another Bulls team that was great defensively and had some measure of success.

To put it bluntly, there just aren't statistical measures that support Rose's MVP candidacy.[/QUOTE]

Eh, we can agree to disagree.:) The statistics you quoted are nice, but I haven't really gone through the methodology to see if it really is valid or not. I agree Deng had one great season, but he's been living off of that season for quite a while now, I really haven't seen him progress to star status yet. He's more of a sidekick then anything.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']I like how dafoomie hasn't been running his cocksucker in here since the Celtics started their slide.[/QUOTE]
Take it easy... some people have other stuff to do that doesn't involve posting in a sports thread on a video game deal forum.
 
[quote name='yukine']Take it easy... some people have other stuff to do that doesn't involve posting in a sports thread on a video game deal forum.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Some people in this thread take shit too seriously.
 
[quote name='docvinh']The Celtics have problems. Big problems.[/QUOTE]

Word. With the east playoff matchups decided, I'd say the Celtics are the team with the best chance of being ousted by a lower seed.
 
[quote name='thirdrose']Word. With the east playoff matchups decided, I'd say the Celtics are the team with the best chance of being ousted by a lower seed.[/QUOTE]

Thats only because the Hawks aren't good enough to beat the Magic. The 76ers could give Miami a run for their money too. 6 games between the two isn't hard to think about. Knicks/Celtics will definitely go 7 games though.
 
The Bulls overcame a terrible first half defensively to go on a remarkable 3rd quarter run and halt the Amare-less Knicks' winning streak at 7. Now, if the Lakers can end their 5 game slide in this game against the Spurs (which I would be hoping for regardless) Chicago and San Antonio will be tied for the best record in the league.
 
Nice. Saw that Cleveland beat Detroit to move ahead of Minnesota for the worst record in the league. The Charlie Villanueva/Ryan Hollins fight was an interesting story especially what happened after leaving the court:

At one point, Villanueva left the Pistons locker room and raced toward the Cavaliers locker room in an attempt to confront Hollins, according to multiple witnesses.

"I’m going to kill that dude," Villanueva yelled at one point. "I don’t give a (expletive)."
Click to expand...
http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2011/04/pistons_charlie_villanueva_eje.html
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Nice. Saw that Cleveland beat Detroit to move ahead of Minnesota for the worst record in the league. The Charlie Villanueva/Ryan Hollins fight was an interesting story especially what happened after leaving the court:


http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2011/04/pistons_charlie_villanueva_eje.html[/QUOTE]

"At the end of the day, that’s something that happened on the court," Villanueva said. "It should stay on the court. I overreacted. He said some things that kind of got me upset."
Click to expand...

A complete 180 from earlier in the season.
 
Sad day for me and my city. It could be an end of an era and my love for basketball.

No matter how much campaigning and support it could all be for nothing.




EDIT:

Just a small update. Even an hour after the game ended about a third of the fans are sticking around to rally and chant. Many are in tears, even the announcers broke down as they were going off air and the Maloofs want no part of this.

Things have been so desperate that fans and local business have even pledged to donate to building a new arena with $400K already raised, but the Maloofs don't want to work things out. Chris Webber and a few major business owners even offered to buy the team, but the Maloofs don't want any part of it.

This isn't about losing a sports team. It's about losing a force in the community that has raised 19 million dollars over the years for non profit organizations, not to mention over $100 million in direct or indirect revenue for the city.

A lot of you can say, "maybe next year". For the city it might be "never again." These past couple months have been like watching a friend die a slow death.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='Mad D']Sad day for me and my city. It could be an end of an era and my love for basketball.

No matter how much campaigning and support it could all be for nothing.[/QUOTE]

very sad to see the maloofs being such idiots hopefully by some miracle something changes.


In other news Mavs continue to be the softest bunch of bitches wasting playoff space in the entire playoffs
 
The Bulls won and the Spurs lost, so the Bulls end up with the league's best record and home court advantage if the two teams meet in the NBA Finals. 62-20 is the same record the '97-98 Bulls had. That was Jordan's last year in Chicago and the last time the Bulls won the championship.
 
Glad to see a win for cleveland, and glad to see somewhat of a nightmare season come to a close. Hopefully it's time to turn the corner. Got those two draft picks so I'm hoping something good can come of that (Jimmer in the 2nd round maybe? lol I would buy a Jimmer cavs jersey so quick. Wishful thinking). But of course a lot of guys are staying in college with the impending lockout.. just our luck lol. But in all seriousness though I think the future is bright for the Cavs. Then again I'm a Cleveland fan and find myself saying those same words every season lol.

As far as the Kings, that's a really shitty situation. Wish they'd keep them there. Some of the most loyal fans in the league, tough losing them to a place that may or may not even want a franchise to begin with.
 
I hope you guys in Sacramento get to keep your team, it's really unfortunate considering the Kings have a bright future with the amount of young talent that they already have.

Loved watching the Suns defeat the Spurs, it's always a good day when the Spurs lose. However, if there is a lockout things are going to look really bleak for my Suns in the near future.
 
[quote name='renique46']In other news Mavs continue to be the softest bunch of bitches wasting playoff space in the entire playoffs[/QUOTE]

The Hornets and Pacers say hello.
 
First round playoff predictions:

Bulls over Pacers 4-0
Heat over Sixers 4-1
Celtics over Knicks 4-2
Magic over Hawks 4-2

Spurs over Grizzlies 4-2
Lakers over Hornets 4-0
Blazers over Mavericks 4-3
Thunder over Nuggets 4-2
 
Predictions.

Top 4 in the east advance.
Heat over Celtics in 7.
Magic over Bulls in 6.
Heat over Magic in 5.

In the West
Top 4 seeds advance.
Thunder over Spurs in 7.
Lakers over Mavericks in 5.
Thunder over Lakers in 6.

Heat over Thunder in 5.
 
Bulls over Pacers 4-0
Heat over Sixers 4-1
Knicks over Celtics 4-2
Magic over Hawks 4-1

Spurs over Grizzlies 4-3
Lakers over Hornets 4-0
Blazers over Mavericks 4-2
Thunder over Nuggets 4-1

Not too different than Matt
 
So i was at a Dodger's game last night.....:shock:

frqiv.jpg


I havnt washed my right hand yet.

Bulls over Pacers 4-1
Heat over Sixers 4-1
Celtics over Knicks 4-2
Magic over Hawks 4-1

Spurs over Grizzlies 4-2
Lakers over Hornets 4-1
Mavericks over Blazers 4-2
Thunder over Nuggets 4-2

Mavs / blazers and Thunder / Nuggets should be REALLY awesome. I cant pick upsets on those yet. Mav's id still give the edge cuse of experience. And thunder just have way better team chemistry than the nuggets and should be able to squeeze out those really close games.

At the begging of the season, i wanted Lakers VS Celtics finals once again, just to make it a best out of 3.;)

But now i want Lakers VS Bulls...I want revenge from 1991 :evil:, plus would make amazing storyline. Old star VS new Star. Phil last season as coach against his old franchise, Kobe going for 6 on MJ's own floor.:applause:
 
Bulls over Pacers 4-2
heats over 76ers 4-3
Celtics over Knicks 4-2
Hawks over Magic 4-3
Spurs over Grizzlies 4-1
Lakers over Hornets 4-2
Mavericks over Blazers 4-3
Thunder over Nuggets 4-3

Bulls over Hawks 4-2
Celtics over heats 4-3
Spurs over Thunder 4-2
Lakers over Mavricks 4-3

Bulls over Celtics 4-3
Spurs over Lakers 4-3

Bulls over Spurs 4-3
 
[quote name='thirdrose']I'm gonna go with the Nuggets winning it all. It's not something that I actually believe, but I think it'd be really cool if it happened.[/QUOTE]

Even if they make it out of the first round and the Knicks get swept, it'd still be real bad ass.
 
i like the music but one song i just can't remember the name of the song/artist/lyric just the beat...

edit:just found out it was Trillville- Some cut
 
[quote name='Prepster']Last time I checked a win is a win.[/QUOTE]

:applause: but wait welcome to the playoffs bulls people play harder even though you won LOL

rotf if heat have to have this much ref help in these playoffs then its gonna be a free ride to the finals
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='lordopus99']Welcome to the playoffs Bulls. People play harder there. ;)[/QUOTE]

I don't know if you've watched many bulls games this season but a lot of the games go to about the last couple minutes until Rose decides the game is over and he closes like a champion is supposed to.
 
[quote name='renique46']:applause: but wait welcome to the playoffs bulls people play harder even though you won LOL

rotf if heat have to have this much ref help in these playoffs then its gonna be a free ride to the finals[/QUOTE]

they'll get a free ride till at least the ECF showdown with the bulls. At that point, David Stern will tell the refs to call it fair.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top