2010-2011 NBA Season Thread

As a Bulls fan this loss hits me pretty damn hard, up by that much at home in a must win and can't close.....tough one to swallow. Derrick did not play well in this series no doubt but I'm not giving up on him like so many others are. He's a 22 year old MVP (deserving BTW), a 1st team all NBA'er, and a humble kid who appears to be a good leader for a team. Yeah I think I will take my chances on that for the future.

Oh and people who say he shouldn't be MVP are basketball stupid. His team had the best record in basketball, dealing with key injuries the majority of the season to key players. There is no way the Bulls have as much talent as the Lakers/Heat/Celtics/Mavs and yet they were the best defensive team in the league with the best record. He played great the majority of the season. What you do in the playoffs doesn't validate/invalidate your regular season award, it just doesn't. When LeBron won the MVP last year and then basically quit in the playoffs against Boston I don't remember a sweeping backlash declaring he was a fraud MVP, maybe I just missed it. The best player in basketball doesn't win the MVP every year, just ask Kobe and Shaq about that.

One more thing too, people need to get the fuck off of three peoples backs a little bit. One being Rose, on which I already stated my feelings. Two and three are Westbrook and Durant. All this shit being said about Westbrook is a joke, like Rose he is a 3rd year player 22 YEARS OLD!!!! Seriously, these guys are 22 YEARS OLD!!!! Are their careers over? Have they no reason to play basketball anymore, should they not even bother coming into the gym to practice, is it all over for them? That shit is ridiculous, about both of them. Trade Westbrook MY ASS!!! I would take him or Rose in a heartbeat if I was starting a team up in this league. And as for Durant, what is his career done too? I mean he is a whopping, oh wait what's that, oh ok he is also 22 YEARS OLD!!! Well shit he couldn't get it done in the WCF I guess him and the extremely young, athletic, talented Thunder are done lol!

Seriously people are so quick in the Internet age to declare someone one thing or another too quickly. These are kids still! How many all-time great players have won a title at 22 years old? Seriously I want a list.

Ok sorry about the ranting but I hate this broad sweeping declarative crap that goes on nowadays. The Bulls and Thunder aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They will be perennial contenders for the next 5+ years. The Lakers, Celtics, and Mavs are all getting old before our eyes. The way is clearing for these young teams to compete/win titles over the next 5+ years. And teams like the Knicks/whoever gets Paul and Howard will be there too.

I'm a Bulls fan, Rose is my favorite player, I'm glad he's on my team, we will be contenders for long time (as will OKC), look forward to future battles with the Heat, ect. Haha trying to quickly sum it all up. :lol:
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Title at 22 = Kobe Bryant.[/QUOTE]

OK, that's one player who wasn't even the best player on his team. Shaq was THE MAN in the Lakers three-peat and if you dispute that you don't know basketball.
 
@cgarb, I completely agree. Derrick Rose deserved to be the MVP of the NBA this year. Being a Heat fan I obviously want to see the heat win the title. Being a non-lebron fan is hard. I can't stand him, yet he is so damn nasty. Being a fan of basketball and seeing how much a ring can put a stamp on a guys career, I would love to see J.Kidd one of the all time pg greats and Dirk get a ring this year.
 
I think basketball has the highest percentage of what I like to call "Basketcenter" fans. These are the people who calls themselves NBA fans but in reality they really just watch sportcenter all day and their views and opinion can be directly linked to show topics for the day.

If Jon Barry says D Rose isnt a MVP on Tuesday by Wednesday you will have all these people coming out of the woodwork claiming they also dont think he is a MVP with basically a summary of what he said to back up their claim.

Now there are tons of people who really follow basketball and can make a valid claim as to why Rose isnt a MVP, why Westbrook should be cut, how KD apparently is nothing but a flash in the pan......but you wont find them in a crowd.
 
[quote name='DT778']Flopping is terrible for the game. It was a fucking shame when Reggie Miller was all over James nuts when he flopped today. Enough with announcer praising floppers. It going to get out of hand and turn into soccer soon.

[/QUOTE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhEb7TcHLAE

I agree. I fucking hate flopping. OKC flopped the whole series and I was glad that eventually the refs stopped giving them as many bullshit calls as they were trying to get. I didn't mind that Dirk didn't get some calls because they weren't calling all the bullshit OKC did, even though OKC did get the benefit of the doubt on a lot of them.

Also that rip move that Durant did needs to be called as an offensive foul. Hopefully the league looks into that in the offseason.
 
[quote name='Blackout']
Many people in Chicago will throw Rose under the bus, but I'm sticking by him. He's my guy. It's only his 3rd year. The future looks bright for the team. Rose is a class act, and will only keep getting better. This will make him even hungrier, and I think this experience will be good for him.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, he had a bad series, they need to get him some help. Once the Heat figured out he was going to be the number one option, you could see they were constantly double teaming him. We need to find someone who can create their own shot, maybe we should get J-Rich since Orlando has no clue how to use the guy.:) Don't get me started on Boozer.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Title at 22 = Kobe Bryant.[/QUOTE]

You named the one guy who happened to have one of the best centers of all time playing with him.
 
[quote name='Gentlegamer']Title at 20, MVP of the Finals = Magic Johnson[/QUOTE]

Playing with a top 5 all-time player in Kareem. Magic himself may be the 2nd greatest player in NBA history too. I don't think Durant/Westbrook/Rose are going to end up top 5 greatest ever to play. Magic is an extremely unique player and was in a very unique situation. If him and Kobe are the list then that helps validate my point. It is extremely rare and they both had top 10 all-time players playing with them.
 
The age thing is kind of beside the point here.

NOONE, of any age, that I can think of has won a title as the sole star on their team.

It's a team sport, it takes more than one start to win a title. Jordan wouldn't have won shit without Pippen and the great role players those Bull's teams had.

The Bull's didn't lose because Rose is too young. They lost because he's the only super star caliber player on the team, and there was no one else to pick up the slack when he hit a shooting slump. They have a good supporting cast, but need a second star player to score--be it a big time scoring big man, or a two guard who can light it up.
 
[quote name='cgarb84']

I'm a Bulls fan, Rose is my favorite player, I'm glad he's on my team, we will be contenders for long time (as will OKC), look forward to future battles with the Heat, ect. Haha trying to quickly sum it all up. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Definitely. Bulls are in it for the long run. Rose won't forget this and I think this will push him even harder during the off season. The dude is only 22 years old...he has plenty of time to get back and whup some ass for a title.

I was thinking that Noah reminds me of Rodman, Asik reminds me of a Luke Longly type guy. Now the Bulls just need a Scottie Pippen for Rose.

They tried to make Korver a Steve Kerr type guy but he can't score. He was pretty disappointing too.
 
[quote name='Gentlegamer']Hakeem Olajuwon, 1994[/QUOTE]

Good example, since he didn't have Drexler that year. But even that required Jordan's retirement.

A counterpoint would be Patrick Ewing who never really had a 2nd super star (other than maybe arguably Allan Houston, and that was late in his career) and thus never won a title. Same with Charles Barkely I suppose.

You look at title winning teams, they tended to have at least 2 clear star players, along with great role players.

Lakers: Shaq and Kobe, then Kobe and Gasol. 80s it was Magic and Kareem

Bulls: Jordan and Pippen

Celtics: Pierce, Garnett, Allen--80s it was Bird and McHale et al.

Pistons-Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars, the 2004 had a collection of 2nd tier stars in Hamilton, Billups, Wallace, and Prince

Spurs--Duncan, Robinson, Parker, Ginobli

Heat: Wade and Shaq

So other than that one Rockets team, I can't think of any other title winners in my lifetime (well since the late 80s when I was 10 or so and old enough to care and pay attention to sports) that didn't have at least two stars and a good supporting cast.

If the Bulls want a title, they need another star to put with Rose. Similarly, if my team the Magic want a title they need a star 2 guard to pair with Howard--and not a washed up one like Vince Carter or a B-lister like Jason Richardson.
 
[quote name='cgarb84']Playing with a top 5 all-time player in Kareem.[/quote]True, but the deciding Game 6 Kareem was injured, and Magic started at center . . . 42 points, 15 boards, 7 assists, 3 steals, 1 block. The deciding game of the series was dominated by the 20 year old rookie Magic Johnson, without Kareem, on the road in Philly. A truly hall of fame performance.
Magic himself may be the 2nd greatest player in NBA history too.
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I personally put him #1, at least in front of Jordan (BLASPHEMY!).
I don't think Durant/Westbrook/Rose are going to end up top 5 greatest ever to play. Magic is an extremely unique player and was in a very unique situation. If him and Kobe are the list then that helps validate my point. It is extremely rare and they both had top 10 all-time players playing with them.
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I agree, they are young and are making the most of their particular situations in the playing era they inhabit. We haven't seen the last of those three deep into the playoffs. I have no fear for the legacy or success of any of them. I *wish* my team (Rockets) had at least one young player of their calibur.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Good example, since he didn't have Drexler that year. But even that required Jordan's retirement.[/quote]Do. Not. Even. Go. There. :booty:

So other than that one Rockets team, I can't think of any other title winners in my lifetime (well since the late 80s when I was 10 or so and old enough to care and pay attention to sports) that didn't have at least two stars and a good supporting cast.
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This is pretty much true, though those 2004 Pistons you mention deserve high praise. They definitely didn't have a bona fide super star at all, and crushed the LA Yankees in the Finals.
If the Bulls want a title, they need another star to put with Rose.
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I don't know if star is the right word. Just someone who's "got your back" and leaves it all on the court, elevating play during playoffs. That can be a role-player. On the other hand, if Loozer had played to his supposed capabilities, I think the Bulls would have been just fine (still no guarantee of winning series).
Similarly, if my team the Magic want a title they need a star 2 guard to pair with Howard--and not a washed up one like Vince Carter or a B-lister like Jason Richardson.
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Maybe, but in my book, Howard needs to work night and day on his offense, and if nothing else on his free throws.
 
[quote name='Gentlegamer']Title at 20, MVP of the Finals = Magic Johnson[/QUOTE]

I was going to mention Magic, he's up there with Jordan, but not above him.:)
 
[quote name='Gentlegamer']
Maybe, but in my book, Howard needs to work night and day on his offense, and if nothing else on his free throws.[/QUOTE]

He's never going to be a 30ppg center like Shaq or Kareem. He doesn't have the size of Shaq to just muscle his way to the basket at will, and will never have the skills of centers like Kareem or Hakeem or Ewing as that's just not his game.

He'll give you 20-25 a game on hook shots, dunks/lay ups and foul shots and dominate defensively. But yest, he needs to work on the foul shooting as he can up his scoring just by getting that up 10-15%.

He should be the 2nd leading score on a title team. He needs a perimeter player that's putting up 25 a game and is the first option on offense to win a title IMO.

That or just a really good set of role players and an offense designed to get a lot more from them than just spotting up for 3's on kickouts like Van Gundy runs!


Anyway, I think it's going to be hard for teams like the 2004 Pistons to win in this era of teams stocking up on stars. A team of b list stars and role players isn't going to beat a team like the Heat, or even a team like the Mavs with Dirk, Kidd, Terry and Marion etc. barring just getting on a hell of a role and playing their A+ game all series long.
 
[quote name='Gentlegamer']Do. Not. Even. Go. There. :booty:

This is pretty much true, though those 2004 Pistons you mention deserve high praise. They definitely didn't have a bona fide super star at all, and crushed the LA Yankees in the Finals.
I don't know if star is the right word. Just someone who's "got your back" and leaves it all on the court, elevating play during playoffs. That can be a role-player. On the other hand, if Loozer had played to his supposed capabilities, I think the Bulls would have been just fine (still no guarantee of winning series).
Maybe, but in my book, Howard needs to work night and day on his offense, and if nothing else on his free throws.[/QUOTE]

Eh, free throws are overrated for centers. There are a bunch of guys at that position who can't shoot free throws and are still great. He needs to develop a bit more of a post up game. He got better this year, so his work with Ewing is working.
 
[quote name='docvinh']Eh, free throws are overrated for centers. There are a bunch of guys at that position who can't shoot free throws and are still great. He needs to develop a bit more of a post up game. He got better this year, so his work with Ewing is working.[/QUOTE]

He averaged 22.9 ppg, which isn't very good for being the number 1 option and getting so many touches. But that was up from the 18.3 the year before--though that was kind of a blip as he'd averaged 20 a game each of the two years before that.

I just don't seem him ever doing better than 25ppg. Which is good, but isn't wining a title with out a perimeter player averaging at least 20ppg. Jason Richardson was 2nd on the team in scoring at 13.9ppg last year.

They've got to find someone at pg or sg who can give them 20ppg.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']He averaged 22.9 ppg, which isn't very good for being the number 1 option and getting so many touches. But that was up from the 18.3 the year before--though that was kind of a blip as he'd averaged 20 a game each of the two years before that.

I just don't seem him ever doing better than 25ppg. Which is good, but isn't wining a title with out a perimeter player averaging at least 20ppg. Jason Richardson was 2nd on the team in scoring at 13.9ppg last year.

They've got to find someone at pg or sg who can give them 20ppg.[/QUOTE]
Someone like Kevin Martin would probably be a great fit.
 
[quote name='pitfallharry219']Why does it seem like almost every discussion in this thread eventually leads to Orlando or Dwight Howard?[/QUOTE]

A few of us regulars are Magic fans. :D When it comes to sports I have tunnel vision, I don't follow much other than my teams. :D

[quote name='Gentlegamer']Someone like Kevin Martin would probably be a great fit.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. He would be a great fit. Though Van Gundy would still need to run a different offense to get him more shots and more opportunities to create for himself.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']
Exactly. He would be a great fit. Though Van Gundy would still need to run a different offense to get him more shots and more opportunities to create for himself.[/QUOTE]Kevin Martin is a super efficient scorer. He can score 30 points on like 10 shots and 20 free throws, so not many plays for him need to be run. However, he's a liability on defense.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']He averaged 22.9 ppg, which isn't very good for being the number 1 option and getting so many touches. But that was up from the 18.3 the year before--though that was kind of a blip as he'd averaged 20 a game each of the two years before that.

I just don't seem him ever doing better than 25ppg. Which is good, but isn't wining a title with out a perimeter player averaging at least 20ppg. Jason Richardson was 2nd on the team in scoring at 13.9ppg last year.

They've got to find someone at pg or sg who can give them 20ppg.[/QUOTE]

I'd argue he's not getting enough touches. He barely shot over 1000 fgs for the season, if you look at some of the top guys, they shoot a lot more.
 
[quote name='docvinh']I'd argue he's not getting enough touches. He barely shot over 1000 fgs for the season, if you look at some of the top guys, they shoot a lot more.[/QUOTE]

Because his offensive game sucks. He dunks/lays it in, or spins for a hook shot. That's it. Sometimes he gets fouled, which isn't ideal since he stinks at free throws.

No way he needs more touches. That would just foul him out of more games (he gets a lot of offensive fouls). It would up turnovers as he often has the ball knocked way trying to spend through double teams. And it would just be more forced hook shots and missed free throws.

He needs plays ran for him for sure, but he should mainly be getting points in the flow of the offense with the bulk of the scoring focus being Nelson and Richardson attacking the basket and all their outstanding shooters knocking down shots off of screens, pick and rolls etc.

Van Gundy doesn't take advantage of the talent on the roster. Look how deadly Bass is with that Horace Grant-esque mid range jumper. Yet they only run a play to get him that shot 2 or 3 times most games. Not to mention how few screens they run for guys like Redick or Anderson.

As much as it's blasphemous to say--and I hope it doesn't happen--if they refuse to fire Van Gundy for whatever reason, the team would probably win more games next year if Howard demands a trade and thus they had no choice but to run a different offense that took advantage of the guards and shooters. Hopefully he stays and Van Gundy gets some new assistant to run a new offensive scheme. But likely it will be the same old story and same old playoff exit again next year.
 
Dwight had a career high usage rate, right around 27.0. A step below the elite players, but still in primary option range (17th in the NBA, between Blake Griffin, Brook Lopez, and Danny Granger). If he cut down on his turnovers a little he'd have more shot attempts. His shot totals are also depressed thanks to the numerous fouls he receives.

Also, if Dwight Howard left the Magic, that team would resemble the Cavaliers. He's the best defender in basketball, and it's not even close.

There's one guy in the NBA who had a better Win Shares per 48 minutes than Dwight Howard this season (LeBron). Dwight's also swept all the defensive metrics for the past few years.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Dwight had a career high usage rate, right around 27.0. A step below the elite players, but still in primary option range. If he cut down on his turnovers a little he'd have more shot attempts. His shot totals are also depressed thanks to the numerous fouls he receives.[/QUOTE]

I was going to say that he has a decent amount of turnovers, and he sometimes sits for a while because he gets too many fouls.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']I worded it awkwardly, but I meant that because he is fouled so often, he is frequently shooting free throws instead of getting off a shot attempt.[/QUOTE]

No, I know what you meant, I meant that he also collects a lot of fouls.
 
[quote name='yukine']
LENyT.png


Stay classy, Bulls fans.

I'm rooting for the Mavs, I want to see Kidd, Marion, and Dirk get a ring.[/QUOTE]

Mana wants me dead.. lol It was all good during the those 3 regular season games.... lol
 
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

Jordan had a longer sustained run of super elite level playing, but LeBron's peak is certainly comparable to MJ's. If LeBron turns in a couple more 30ish PER seasons, he'll have as many 30+ PER seasons as MJ, and his playoff run in 08-09 was beyond anything ever seen in basketball.

Age 24 season, MJ and LeBron:

http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=0&p1=jordami01&y1=1988&p2=jamesle01&y2=2009

Age 25 season, MJ and LeBron:

http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=0&p1=jordami01&y1=1989&p2=jamesle01&y2=2010

The similarities are uncanny. LeBron even has him beat in a few areas.

It is a joke that Kobe, and not LeBron, has been compared to MJ for so long. This is Bonds/Griffey in the 90s redux, with the lesser player (Kobe, Griffey) getting the majority of press and praise while the vastly more dominant player (LeBron, Bonds) is criticized and overlooked.
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']
Exactly. He would be a great fit. Though Van Gundy would still need to run a different offense to get him more shots and more opportunities to create for himself.[/QUOTE]

Though under the Van Gundy system all players revert to 3 point shooters i.e. Kevin Martin would not work. Jason Richardson, while he is old, is still an effective scorer. The difference is he turned into a 3 point shooter like everyone before him i.e. Lewis, Carter, Anderson, Hedo, etc.

[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Also, if Dwight Howard left the Magic, that team would resemble the Cavaliers. He's the best defender in basketball, and it's not even close.[/quote]

I agree. Though more on the offensive end. Most of our plays are dump to Howard, who then either makes a move to score or pass to a 3 point shooter. Without that piece, how will Van Gundy system work at all since all these players changed their games to this 3point mentality?

Though, my gut says he stays with us so that is what I pray for. I hope this offseason we try to secure a backup for Howard.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']

It is a joke that Kobe, and not LeBron, has been compared to MJ for so long. This is Bonds/Griffey in the 90s redux, with the lesser player (Kobe, Griffey) getting the majority of press and praise while the vastly more dominant player (LeBron, Bonds) is criticized and overlooked.[/QUOTE]

I wonder what else Bonds/LeBron have in common that they don't have in common with Kobe/Griffey? :lol:
 
[quote name='advanced']I wonder what else Bonds/LeBron have in common that they don't have in common with Kobe/Griffey? :lol:[/QUOTE]

I see what you did there LOL
 
Dallas shot terribly and got worked on the glass way too hard tonight. Still, I don't expect Barea to shoot like this again and I would expect some of the other pieces to step up as the series goes on.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Dallas shot terribly and got worked on the glass way too hard tonight. Still, I don't expect Barea to shoot like this again and I would expect some of the other pieces to step up as the series goes on.[/QUOTE]

You forgot to mention the refs calling bs calls against them.
 
Wow Dirk is getting some soft ass calls.

Thats one of the things I hate but anyone who is a fan should love. Dirk is a 7fter but he isnt classified as one when it comes to fouls. Guys like T-Chan, KG, Ibaka...etc...it takes a good swipe to get a foul as it should because your god damn 7ft tall. Dirk? You blow on this guy and it causes a foul.

I am not anti Dirk...he is HOF for sure he just gets some soft calls.


But the calls were fair on both sides Dallas just doesnt have Wade and Bron and Bosh. The big three are playing really well and no one can stop them.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Wow Dirk is getting some soft ass calls.

Thats one of the things I hate but anyone who is a fan should love. Dirk is a 7fter but he isnt classified as one when it comes to fouls. Guys like T-Chan, KG, Ibaka...etc...it takes a good swipe to get a foul as it should because your god damn 7ft tall. Dirk? You blow on this guy and it causes a foul.

I am not anti Dirk...he is HOF for sure he just gets some soft calls.


But the calls were fair on both sides Dallas just doesnt have Wade and Bron and Bosh. The big three are playing really well and no one can stop them.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? He might get them every once and a while, but he was getting mauled later in the OKC series and still wasn't getting any calls.
 
lol barea is garbage

[quote name='Soodmeg']Wow Dirk is getting some soft ass calls.

Thats one of the things I hate but anyone who is a fan should love. Dirk is a 7fter but he int classified as one when it comes to fouls. Guys like T-Chan, KG, Ibaka...etc...it takes a good swipe to get a foul as it should because your god damn 7ft tall. Dirk? You blow on this guy and it causes a foul.

I am not anti Dirk...he is HOF for sure he just gets some soft calls.


But the calls were fair on both sides Dallas just doesnt have Wade and Bron and Bosh. The big three are playing really well and no one can stop them.[/QUOTE]

This has been known for awhile now soodmeg its just that noone wants to admit it and they would rather focus on the calls durant bron wade celtics etc get
 
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