2011 MLB Discussion Thread

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Just saw on the ESPN ticker that the Cards have not offered 10 years--$220 million, but that the Marlin's are now out of the running in any case.
 
Pujols to the Angels, eh? That came out of nowhere. No trade clause and a 10 year contract. He'll probably retire as an Angel now. Crazy stuff.
 
This has to be a bittersweet year for the Cardinals, they win the World Series but lose their greatest player since Stan Musial.

Any Cardinal fans on here? What will you remember 2011 for, Series or losing Pujols?



Edit: Angels just signed CJ Wilson.
 
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[quote name='Beatofficer']This has to be a bittersweet year for the Cardinals, they win the World Series but lose their greatest player since Stan Musial.

Any Cardinal fans on here? What will you remember 2011 for, Series or losing Pujols?[/QUOTE]I'll remember it for both, though if $25M/year instead of $22M/year is what has someone from jumping ship to another team, then the Angels can enjoy him. Makes all the commentary about Pujols wanting to retire as a Cardinal pretty moot.

I'm sure Pujols will be their DH and never play first base every again, save interleague play, All-Star Game action or World Series play.
 
Wow, crazy, crazy shit. Where the hell did the Angels come from all of a sudden? Can they please sign Rollins too? I don't want to give him 5 years but it sounds like we are.
 
[quote name='tcrash247']Wow, crazy, crazy shit. Where the hell did the Angels come from all of a sudden? Can they please sign Rollins too? I don't want to give him 5 years but it sounds like we are.[/QUOTE]At the end of the season, it was rumored that they were interested in talking with Pujols, as were the Marlins. That's what the local news out here in St. Louis were reporting.

I guess the Angels were waiting out the back-and-forth with the Marlins and the Cardinals, saw what the sticking points were (no-trade clause) and upped the offer to be well above both offers and give the points that were issues with other teams.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']I'll remember it for both, though if $25M/year instead of $22M/year is what has someone from jumping ship to another team, then the Angels can enjoy him. [/QUOTE]

I can't imagine it was just the money. I'm guessing he was just wanting a change from St. Louis in general--if he was really happy living there then I don't think $3 million a year would have made a difference.

With the Marlins and Angels being the two teams he considered besides the Cards, maybe he just wanted to go somewhere with a larger Hispanic population. Or just better weather. *shrugs* Couldn't blame him personally, St. Louis seemed like a pretty miserable place the couple times I've been.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I can't imagine it was just the money. I'm guessing he was just wanting a change from St. Louis in general--if he was really happy living there then I don't think $3 million a year would have made a difference.

With the Marlins and Angels being the two teams he considered besides the Cards, maybe he just wanted to go somewhere with a larger Hispanic population. Or just better weather. *shrugs* Couldn't blame him personally, St. Louis seemed like a pretty miserable place the couple times I've been.[/QUOTE]He is active in charities here in St. Louis, he has quite the large house out here, as well as his restaurant. He's pretty beloved out here and has said repeatedly he wanted to finish out his career as a St. Louis Cardinal. As it seems to me, I think his agent decided to see how far he could run the money train and the Angels had the biggest wallet.

It was discussed that it was the possible Hispanic connection that had the Marlins and Angels looking at him for possible acquisition, since they do have pretty big Hispanic population and Pujols would help draw more fans to the games. I think that since the Angels took him, the appeal of being a DH might have had something to do with it.

Weather might be a factor, though you run into weather issues numerous places around the county besides St. Louis.

Sorry you had such bad experiences coming out this way. :lol:
 
Sure, weather sucks lots of places, but he was talking with two teams in places with great weather year round. :D

I'm sure St. Louis is a fine city, the downtown area around the arch etc. just sucks--and as I was there for work I didn't get a chance to venture out of that area much. I'm just not a fan of the midwest in general--nor the south where I'm stuck for work currently! Love the big northeast cities and the west coast and hope to move one way or the other when I find a good job opportunity.
 
Apparently the Marlins offered both Albert and CJ more money, but the Marlins' refusal to do no-trade clauses was a big thing leading them to take less money from the Angels.

Albert probably has a handful of good years left, after which time he's really going to need that DH spot, so an AL team makes sense.

As far as CJ goes, he's from Orange County and the Rangers' offer wasn't even close, so it made more sense for him to go home to the Angels for a lot of money than go to Miami for slightly more money but no no-trade clause.
 
[quote name='kodave']Apparently the Marlins offered both Albert and CJ more money, but the Marlins' refusal to do no-trade clauses was a big thing leading them to take less money from the Angels.

Albert probably has a handful of good years left, after which time he's really going to need that DH spot, so an AL team makes sense.

As far as CJ goes, he's from Orange County and the Rangers' offer wasn't even close, so it made more sense for him to go home to the Angels for a lot of money than go to Miami for slightly more money but no no-trade clause.[/QUOTE]

Marlins offered hima 10 year/275 contract
 
[quote name='shrike4242']He is active in charities here in St. Louis, he has quite the large house out here, as well as his restaurant. He's pretty beloved out here and has said repeatedly he wanted to finish out his career as a St. Louis Cardinal. As it seems to me, I think his agent decided to see how far he could run the money train and the Angels had the biggest wallet.

It was discussed that it was the possible Hispanic connection that had the Marlins and Angels looking at him for possible acquisition, since they do have pretty big Hispanic population and Pujols would help draw more fans to the games. I think that since the Angels took him, the appeal of being a DH might have had something to do with it.

Weather might be a factor, though you run into weather issues numerous places around the county besides St. Louis.

Sorry you had such bad experiences coming out this way. :lol:[/QUOTE]


I've been reading a few articles and watching ESPN, everyone is saying the Cardinals handled this poorly. They were emotionless in the fact that they were going to lose them and didn't want to give anymore money. Which, I guess he took as a lack of respect.

This makes me wonder now though, if the Cardinals might try to see if they can trade for Kendry Moralas since they have that hole at 1B or maybe even go after Fielder? Though no matter what, you can't replace the kind of production Pujols put out there.
 
[quote name='Beatofficer']I've been reading a few articles and watching ESPN, everyone is saying the Cardinals handled this poorly. They were emotionless in the fact that they were going to lose them and didn't want to give anymore money. Which, I guess he took as a lack of respect.

This makes me wonder now though, if the Cardinals might try to see if they can trade for Kendry Moralas since they have that hole at 1B or maybe even go after Fielder? Though no matter what, you can't replace the kind of production Pujols put out there.[/QUOTE]

They're going to slide Berkman to 1B next season.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']They're going to slide Berkman to 1B next season.[/QUOTE]

This. In this free agent market it'll be easier to acquire an OF, who can to hold the fort until Craig gets back.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I can't imagine it was just the money. I'm guessing he was just wanting a change from St. Louis in general--if he was really happy living there then I don't think $3 million a year would have made a difference.[/QUOTE]

That $3million a year adds up to $30 million over 10 years. In my book that's nothing to sneeze at. Plus, this is his last contract so why not take the money with the assurance of a no trade clause. I'm speculating here but it sounds as though Pujols was looking for a change of scenery.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']That $3million a year adds up to $30 million over 10 years. In my book that's nothing to sneeze at. Plus, this is his last contract so why not take the money with the assurance of a no trade clause. I'm speculating here but it sounds as though Pujols was looking for a change of scenery.[/QUOTE]He was saying repeatedly over the year when it was brought up that he wanted to remain a Cardinal, retire here, etc.

I guess the place of retirement can be changed with the addition of $30M into the mix.

I can only think that halfway into this contract, the Angels may be regretting their decision. As would the Cardinals, most likely.

It would be more than a bit or irony if he injured himself in spring training and was out for the year. I'm not saying it would happen though that's what happened to Adam Wainright and it was enough of an issue to change things up a bit for the Cardinals.

[quote name='kill3r7']This. In this free agent market it'll be easier to acquire an OF, who can to hold the fort until Craig gets back.[/QUOTE]Seemed to be the logical move when Pujols' exit was announced, as if they can find a good deal on an OF, it'll give them money to look for pitching.
 
I still can't believe that baseball continues to survive with these types of contracts, in this type of an economy. But, I guess people need their entertainment regardless of whether they have food on the table or not.

As for Albert, this is not surprising. There's no loyalty in the game, as the days of a guy spending his career with one team are long gone.
Sure, they all preach 'I want to be a Cardinal forever', but what they really mean is 'If the Cards pay me the right amount, I'll stay'.
Greed is what the game is about (owners and players), and I'm sure there'll be another lockout soon enough.
 
To be fair, that's true of everything thing, not just sports.

How many of us have loyalty to our employers and would stay if we got a big raise offer from another company?
 
[quote name='dragonjud']Greed is what the game is about (owners and players), and I'm sure there'll be another lockout soon enough.[/QUOTE]
They just renewed the CBA for 5 more years, the owners are making plenty of money.

Why is it incumbent on the player to take less? Most of the money they'll ever make in their lives comes from their playing careers. Why isn't the blame on the Cardinals for letting him walk over a measly 3.4 million dollars a year?

They probably offered the $220m/10 late in the game knowing that it was substantially less than the Angels offer and that he'd never take it. They're trying to save face, they probably didn't want to make such a commitment to an aging player, the last half of that deal could easily be an albatross. I respect that position, they're not a team that could overcome paying $25 million to an unproductive player. But I also respect Pujols's position, $34 million dollars is a lot of money.
 
Pujols fulfilled his contract with the Cardinals, was a perennial All-Star and MVP candidate, and helped bring them two World Series titles. I'm really surprised there are Cardinals fans who are bitter towards Pujols. This is the last big contract he'll ever sign, he should be able to go where he wants without people acting like he's LeBron James.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']That $3million a year adds up to $30 million over 10 years. In my book that's nothing to sneeze at. Plus, this is his last contract so why not take the money with the assurance of a no trade clause. I'm speculating here but it sounds as though Pujols was looking for a change of scenery.[/QUOTE]

For sure, it's still a lot of money.

But I'd think at some point that becomes less important than where you want to be. When you've made tons of money already and are signing a contract worth $200+ million over the next decade, and extra $30 million isn't as signficant as it is to someone who doesn't already have tens of millions (or hundred's of millions).

I mean how much money does one person really need to set themselves and multiple generations of their family up for life? :D

So I'm sure the extra money didn't hurt, but I think you're right that he ultimately wanted a change so scenery for whatever reason.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']
So I'm sure the extra money didn't hurt, but I think you're right that he ultimately wanted a change so scenery for whatever reason.[/QUOTE]

Southern California is pretty nice.
 
[quote name='kodave']Apparently the Marlins offered both Albert and CJ more money, but the Marlins' refusal to do no-trade clauses was a big thing leading them to take less money from the Angels.

Albert probably has a handful of good years left, after which time he's really going to need that DH spot, so an AL team makes sense.

As far as CJ goes, he's from Orange County and the Rangers' offer wasn't even close, so it made more sense for him to go home to the Angels for a lot of money than go to Miami for slightly more money but no no-trade clause.[/QUOTE]

The Marlins offer to Wilson was substantially more if the details are to be believed (an extra year and over 25 million were left on the table).

As a Rangers fan I still like their chances in the division. The Angels thought getting Vernon Wells and allowing the Rangers to get Mike Napoli was a good idea. The Angels have 2-3 years max as their window and the Rangers are still better. Tying 80 million dollars to four players is insane and a terrible way to run a ballclub when you don't have the money pouring in like a New York or Boston does.


Also the money for Pujols has always been a big thing. Anyone thinking otherwise has it twisted. He wanted an A-Rod contract because they got him cheap last time and he wants to be the highest paid superstar in the game. He wasn't going to be giving any hometown discounts because he did that last time and Albert was going to do Albert this time. When it blows up in his face Ken Griffey Jr. style I am going to laugh.
 
[quote name='dragonjud']I still can't believe that baseball continues to survive with these types of contracts, in this type of an economy. But, I guess people need their entertainment regardless of whether they have food on the table or not.

As for Albert, this is not surprising. There's no loyalty in the game, as the days of a guy spending his career with one team are long gone.
Sure, they all preach 'I want to be a Cardinal forever', but what they really mean is 'If the Cards pay me the right amount, I'll stay'.
Greed is what the game is about (owners and players), and I'm sure there'll be another lockout soon enough.[/QUOTE]

MLB revenue has continued to rise during recent years:

http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?...7-billion-in-2010&catid=30:mlb-news&Itemid=42
 
[quote name='shrike4242']
It would be more than a bit or irony if he injured himself in spring training and was out for the year. I'm not saying it would happen though that's what happened to Adam Wainright and it was enough of an issue to change things up a bit for the Cardinals.
[/QUOTE]

That would happen if Pujols signed with the Cubs
 
For a NL team they can't include a no trade cause since there is zero chance Albert is playing first base for the last few years of the contract. With the Angles at least they can DH him.

If the Angles can win 2 or 3 titles it will be a good deal. Other wise it will be horrible.
 
[quote name='62t']For a NL team they can't include a no trade cause since there is zero chance Albert is playing first base for the last few years of the contract. With the Angles at least they can DH him.

If the Angles can win 2 or 3 titles it will be a good deal. Other wise it will be horrible.[/QUOTE]

Huh? He doesn't need a no trade clause for the latter portion of the contract. The clause in this instance would be for protection in the first 5 years of the deal. He will acquire 10/5 trade rights long before he is limited to DH.
 
[quote name='paddlefoot']Huh? He doesn't need a no trade clause for the latter portion of the contract. The clause in this instance would be for protection in the first 5 years of the deal. He will acquire 10/5 trade rights long before he is limited to DH.[/QUOTE]

His no trade clause can be considered the $25 millon/year when he is in his 40's;)
 
[quote name='bvharris']Pujols fulfilled his contract with the Cardinals, was a perennial All-Star and MVP candidate, and helped bring them two World Series titles. I'm really surprised there are Cardinals fans who are bitter towards Pujols. This is the last big contract he'll ever sign, he should be able to go where he wants without people acting like he's LeBron James.[/QUOTE]

Then he shouldn't build a restaurant in St. Louis, advertise the hell out of it, and build a HUGE bronze statue of himself outside of it in the year before he leaves.
 
I always had it in the back of my mind that the Angels could be a player for Pujols in the spring. My list of teams was Angels, Cubs, White Sox, Cardinals. I figured it would be the Cubs to give the Godfather offer to Pujols, not the Angels and certainly not the Marlins.
 
Damn dude if true he STILL gonna get paid for those 50 games. Also mvp is vote by sportwriters so they might do a re vote. I recalled when Brian Cushing in Football got caughting using steriod the revoted the Rookie of the Year award(he still won though). Different voter/system but still it been done
 
[quote name='speedracer']Holy shit @ Braun. You'd think baseball would try to leak the story so he doesn't get the MVP.[/QUOTE]

If it's true that the positive test occurred during the playoffs, than the vote had already occurred by that point anyway.
 
Braun was supposed to be that "good guy" in baseball, class act, natural talent (though, he still does have natural talent). Sucks that he ended up using PEDs though I'd be a hypocrite if I was angry or well, thought any less of him being a Giants fan and everything.
 
I'm so depressed that the Yankees traded Montero. He was the first player I ever followed all the way through the minor leagues to the majors and now he's gone just like that. Sucks :(
 
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