2012 Election Thread

Who is this "You" and "they". My dad was fighting in Vietnam after being drafted and then he work in a factory all his life so I could have an opportunity to not have to do the same thing. When you make blanket statements about people you are the person who looks bad.

Also, this idea that being a white racist has no stigma is crazy. My comparison does hold true. Hating a group of people now for what a group of people did then is racist. I am not even going to touch the rest of your stuff because you take hyperbole to a new level.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Are you serious with this? First I said virtually none, I know this because you can get elected to congress being a self proclaimed KKK member. Which has happened many times ( I do like how I named several people and you skipped right over them) explained to me how exactly is there a stigma if you can easily attained high offices of power while being associated with a hate group? Also the pic I posted about happens ever where you go. Hell at least the KKK hid their faces from the public, now people walk around with racist painted on their chest and no one cares.

Also, your dad fought in the war? Well I guess that means he earned everything in his life right? Because no other minorities ever fought in wars and then had to come back to American and still deal with racism right? You are making my point my friend.

Also, I am not making blanket statements, I am talking about America as a whole and how racism is viewed. Again, its super easy to discuss this topic with other white like minded people...try talking bout it with some minorities. You will get a completely different view of the whole situation.

Lastly your comparison does not make any sense because you were a self proclaimed nazi you would be denied many services because people in general do not like nazis....on the other hand...YOU CAN be a white supremacist and be denied virtually nothing.[/QUOTE]


You are not even worth arguing with. I love how you turn around every statement I make. My father DID earn everything he has. He has worked harder than anyone I know. You make it sound like every white person just has it good because they are white. No work required.

The fact you somehow twisted around my example of my Dad and being drafted into some sort of racism thing only shows your self centered view of this. He was not denying blacks loans like you were saying, he was struggling like many people did, regardless of race. You say you are not making blanket statements yet say America "as a whole" in the same sentence. Do you even read what you write?
 
[quote name='cancerman1120']Who is this "You" and "they". My dad was fighting in Vietnam after being drafted and then he work in a factory all his life so I could have an opportunity to not have to do the same thing. When you make blanket statements about people you are the person who looks bad.

Also, this idea that being a white racist has no stigma is crazy. My comparison does hold true. Hating a group of people now for what a group of people did then is racist. I am not even going to touch the rest of your stuff because you take hyperbole to a new level.[/QUOTE]
The stigma depends on your peer group. Here in the south it's practically expected that everybody is racist to some extent, especially the older population. There is little to no stigma amongst the older southern population of this country, they'll be openly racist with people much of the time.
 
[quote name='Clak']The stigma depends on your peer group. Here in the south it's practically expected that everybody is racist to some extent, especially the older population. There is little to no stigma amongst the older southern population of this country, they'll be openly racist with people much of the time.[/QUOTE]


This is pretty much the case at the places where I've lived in the South. Basically, it seems like for any one person speaking in racist tones, whether overt or covert, there's always someone in earshot who agrees.

It's especially obvious if you happen to hear them talk about politics.

Edit: It's also never been more obvious in my time than since the 2008 election. These disturbingly widespread religious and birth certificate conspiracies, for instance, would never have garnered attention if it wasn't for Obama's name and skin color.
 
Oh hell no, if he had a German sounding name I guarantee we wouldn't hear about how he was really born in Munich.
 
cancerman1120,

No one is saying that your father didn't work hard or whatever, but you have to realize that some of the opportunities he was afforded and preferential treatment he was given is not universal no matter how hard he had it. Even trivial things like how you're treated at a restaurant or in a store would be radically different if you were black. A black man that was drafted didn't even have the same educational opportunities from the GI Bill due to the US being a literal apartheid state, muchless subsidized home loans and employment opportunities.

To use a dictionary to define something as complex as racism is simply fallacious. Would you use a dictionary to to describe the nuances of cancer? Of course not. So to say that Soodmeg's mom is racist, and I disagree with him saying it too, is reductio ad absurdum to the point of racism being meaningless and a non-issue in people's lives. We all know that isn't true either.

Here's another example that might make it easier for you to understand: We all know that women have it harder than men socially, economically, and politically. To put it simply, we live in a sexist society and this can be seen throughout the spectrums I listed above. If a woman is oppressed by men and hate them for it, would you call them sexist knowing that as a group, women have fewer opportunities than men due to societal discrimination? To push it even further, would you call a slave racist for hating white people if whites were the ones doing the enslaving?
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']Did I call your dad a racist? No, I was simply pointing out the fact that he wasnt the only person that served now was he? Using your father service was a desperate attempt to avoid my point in the first place. Your father as well as many other fathers of ever race served in the military...that doesnt change anything involving race. Again, this is my point....anything at all to not talk about your own family history right.

Well my father fought in a war...so clearly that means racism didnt exist in my family right? Seriously...what does that even mean?[/QUOTE]

Ok after walking away a bit hopefully I can express what my problem was with your first statement and maybe I am reading/interpreting it wrong. I do not deny in the slightest racism exists and that in many parts of the country it is pretty much a tolerated way of life. I will never actually be able to fully understand racism in the context of how it exists in this country because being white does not carry the same preconceived baggage. What I was taking exception to is this idea that since racism took place in the past, whether directly through my family or someone else's family that it makes me responsible for that. This idea I have to come to grips with the fact my grandpa may have been a racist. I am not sure what this accomplishes for me or for you? I am not a racist. That is what matters between me and you. I cannot change how someone treated your mother. I can apologize and feel bad about it but it was not me that did it. It just seems like you are punishing people for others bad behavior.

The point I was trying to make with my Father was not to hand wave. It was an attempt to say he got what he did in life because of his hard work not because of racism. I never meant to say racism did not exist because my father fought in a war. Did he have advantage being white? Yes but he still had to work hard. Anyway that is off-topic really.

I really mean no hard feelings.

Edit: reading what you just wrote clears things up for me a bit more. I will need to think about it more. I think that race was never that huge of a topic in my house so maybe this is why I took exception. I do recall my grand parents saying some racist things when I was young and they have stuck with me. I remember being very confused about why they would say certain things.
 
white-privilege-domination-slavery.png


denial_is_so_white.png


 
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Well what I think I said was the best I could do is not be a racist. Isn't that exactly what you are asking me to do? If I am not a racist then the field becomes more level? The more people that are not racist then the closer we become to a level field. You say you do not want a "sandwich" from me but rather "work to create more understanding and a fairer playing field for all races". If racism is the sole cause for my advantages then not being racist is the solution right? You are not articulating what you want in any specific terms. I am white, it has helped me I am sure at some point in my life. I try to treat everyone as equal. Ok now what?
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Enough of this race discussion. Who's watching the final debate tonight? Topic is foreign affairs.[/QUOTE]


I'll be watching it, but I expect it to be really boring and full of China and Libya talk. Romney will have a chip on his shoulder from the last debate and the 'transcript' moment.

Here's a template:

Romney: Obama is weak on ; I won't be. War war war. UN is bad. Russia, China, enemies. Iran, Israel, nukes.

Obama: What Romney said is simply not true; he wants war, I'll go NEARLY as far as war, but not quite. Work together, UN is good. Crippling sanctions, etc. No Iran nukes. Israel is cool.

Ok, I'm probably wrong. Still expect it to be boring.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']
U of Michigan Law school has a 24 percent minority rate....meaning 2.5 out of every 10 students is white. So as a white person you have a 7.5 out of 10 chance to get in and has a non white student you have a 2.5 chance. Yet somehow you are the one getting discriminated against.
[/QUOTE]

Faulty math there since that only holds if there were equal numbers of white and non-white applicants.

And there obviously isn't since the US is still majority white for the time being, and applicant pools for law school, grad school etc. are pretty heavily white (lower rates of minorities going to and graduating from college--especially with high GPAs and test scores) due to all that concentrated disadvantage stuff discussed in this thread.

College is one place where affirmative action does work as most schools/programs value having diversity so we do sometimes take minorities into our graduate program over whites with same (or slightly better) records. For us that's really just for borderline admits though as our program doesn't get a ton of applicants anyway, so pretty much everyone with good GPA/GRE scores is getting in and getting assistantships anyway.

That said, having some preferencer in college admissions does little to level the playing field given all the concentrated disadvantage throughout early stages of life that lead to fewer minorities being qualified for good colleges, much less good law schools and graduate programs.
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']Enough of this race discussion. Who's watching the final debate tonight? Topic is foreign affairs.[/QUOTE]
I'll be watching it. I wonder how many times Romney will go Kanye on Obama again.:lol:

[quote name='cancerman1120']Well what I think I said was the best I could do is not be a racist. Isn't that exactly what you are asking me to do? If I am not a racist then the field becomes more level? The more people that are not racist then the closer we become to a level field. You say you do not want a "sandwich" from me but rather "work to create more understanding and a fairer playing field for all races". If racism is the sole cause for my advantages then not being racist is the solution right? You are not articulating what you want in any specific terms. I am white, it has helped me I am sure at some point in my life. I try to treat everyone as equal. Ok now what?[/QUOTE]
You treating everyone "equally" is not a solution. Figuring out how society and our institutions create an environment to give you advantages over others due to race is merely the first step. Solutions come later.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Enough of this race discussion. Who's watching the final debate tonight? Topic is foreign affairs.[/QUOTE]

I'll be tuning in, though I don't expect it to be as good as the last one.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']I disagree. Racism is racism. Yes, I fully understand why my mother to this day still has a problem with white people (its far done down now...seeing as I have a white wife) but to hate the entire group for the actions of a few is still wrong. I get it...I just dont agree.

There were indeed white people fighting against racism even back then. Hate the ones that commit the crime or let the crimes happen....its part of my personality.
Now, to my point and you have hinted and plainly yelled it many of times. My problem is how often the topic of race comes up but no one takes claim to their own families and friends. How can you discuss the plight of blacks and other minorities yet you dont even acknowledge of your own family doings or wrong doings.

Again, in my personal experience white people will talk all day about racism as long as its about the black fight and white people in black and white photos...but if you try to bring up what role their families or their friends families played all of a sudden its too personal for them to handle. Which means you at the very core can not even discuss racism properly because you are living in a fantasy land in which the only real racist are obvious neo-nazis.

I know what my mom was doing during the movement but if I polled all of my white friends (and I have done this) seemingly no one even remembers or "it wasnt like that in my town, city, school." So apparently my mother was either fighting ghosts that all vanished like a Boo from fucking Mario brother or you guys do not do enough to learn your own family history. EVEN though the shit just happened only a mere 60 years ago.


There are MANY MANY MANY white people that I have met who really do get it but most do not. Most seem to focus solely on the over the top racist neo-nazi while letting their fairly racist banker father continue to deny minorities loans. I do not remember who said it but it was someone on this board but it was but in the best why possible. "You may think that your dad is not racist but let your sister come home with a black guy and see how he flips out."

My wife (who is Mexican and German) grew up in a private school bubble. Private elementary, middle and high school. We then met in a private college. She grew up with the same people from 2nd grade to college. She had like 25 friends....do you know how many she lost when they found out she was dating a black guy? About 10. The others said and I quote because they said this to me..."well its ok to date one but we would probably have a problem if you got married." When we announced are engagement she lost another 10.

THAT is the racism white people should focus on instead of debating god damn Sharpton and Jackson. I am talking about bank workers, accounts, the guy who works at the plant...those people are the most dangerous and they are everywhere, yet somehow no one ever talks about them. One of the things that pisses me off the most is the fact that my Mother who was in the Black Panthers and my Father who was a cop in Memphis can tell me story after story about what it was like. Yet not white person ever can remember what happened.[/QUOTE]
If I was black my fiance's father would have had a fucking meltdown when he met me. i hate to even say that because otherwise he's a great guy, but damn if he doesn't fall right into that old white southern racist category I mentioned earlier.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Some people really love the "sins of the father" idea.[/QUOTE]
Tell us more about how history doesn't matter. I'm dying to hear it.
 
From the wiki : "A corollary to this hypothesis is that food aid to developing nations will only exacerbate overpopulation."
What do you guys think of this theory? Make sense or a clear cut case of Eugenics?

Anyone ever read Daniel Quinn?
 
[quote name='slidecage']debate or wwe


at least you know both of them will have sweaty men lying about something


:)[/QUOTE]

Im watching Superman The Animated Series. Not sure I can make it through another debate.

But ill expect the same debate banter from everyone to know whats going on.
 
[quote name='EdRyder']From the wiki : "A corollary to this hypothesis is that food aid to developing nations will only exacerbate overpopulation."
What do you guys think of this theory? Make sense or a clear cut case of Eugenics?

Anyone ever read Daniel Quinn?[/QUOTE]
I don't know if I'd call it eugenics because that's putting it way too mildly. At the very least, it'll help foreign business interests exercise more control over those areas far more than they already do. We're really talking about places that have been raped of their resources for hundreds of years, so yeah, it'll just make things worse. Either way, trying to control population growth of a foreign country won't really "fix" overpopulatoin when it isn't a population problem, but a consumption problem. 100k random people in the US use far more resources than 100k random people in one of those countries that we give food aid too.
 
Almost more interested in baseball and I don't know how to do pip with my tv

Oh goodie, thanking bs once again
 
funny thing about xbox polls. During the debate it's heavily in favour of Obama but the daily polls tend to be fairly even if not in favour of Romney. So, people who aren't engaged favour the GOP candidate. Go figure.
 
Romney is straining himself to differentiate from Obama on the issue of Syria.

"I really, really, really want Assad to go, but, yeah, what he said."
 
HAHAHA...yeah, I caught that too...started hearing the Team America song in my head at that point.

Missile defense in Poland? Who's going to attack Poland? The Bolsheviks? Who gives a shit about missile defense in Poland?
 
[quote name='EdRyder']From the wiki : "A corollary to this hypothesis is that food aid to developing nations will only exacerbate overpopulation."
What do you guys think of this theory? Make sense or a clear cut case of Eugenics?

Anyone ever read Daniel Quinn?[/QUOTE]

I think there are more just ways of controlling population growth than letting people starve, that's what I think. If a certain group controlled by an old white guy in a funny hat would stop interfering, that would help.
 
[quote name='ID2006']"Nukes and the largest... everything... aren't enough! We need a bigger military."[/QUOTE]

But the military has nothing to do with that debt he keeps harping on right. :D
 
Yeah wtf was that about Poland? I was reading another thread and only 75% listening.

A wrong and reckless future?
 
I will say this is a pretty sleepy debate. If the best Romney can do on a debate about foreign policy is to keep harping on domestic issues you know he does not have much to say.
 
Wait just a minute, we need a system that puts teachers first, but the unions got to go? Wtf is he smoking?
 
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