40gb PS3 $399, no bc - 11/2, $499 80gb, limited bc, now. 56,877 new skus rumored

[quote name='propeller_head']

they did it to get people to buy the more expensive console and get them to continue buying ps2s. pure & simple.[/QUOTE]


That's exactly right... cause Sony has plenty of backstock on the 80gb systems.
 
Yeah, I have the 80GB through that same CC deal, and when the PS2 drops in price I might get one if the software emulation halts; and just keep it under my bed incase my fat PS2 every dies.

But then again, I'm realistic, I rarely play my PS2 as is, I only played a few PSOne games on my PS2 so yeah, I think we're upset about the BC more becuase we got spoiled with it thusfar and the removal hurts more than if we never had it in the first place.
 
[quote name='propeller_head']credence my ass. it saved them all but $12 according to isuppli. and im guessing its cheaper now than it was when they priced the chips. chips get smaller, they still make an assload of ps2s, they have no licensing fees to pay any1.

they did it to get people to buy the more expensive console and get them to continue buying ps2s. pure & simple.[/QUOTE]

:lol: Yes, they're manufacturing a console using the exact same hardware as the 80GB and putting it on the market for $200 less, risking substantial losses, because they want people to buy the more expensive one. Sony's pretty dunderheaded, but not THAT much. You think they're willing to risk even MORE backlash against their business decisions, incur greater losses through a "trojan" console (based on your idea that the last thing Sony has in mind is to actually *sell* these 40GB consoles)...just to sell a $600 console that people weren't buying in the first place?

Feh...you just seem to have it in for any claim I make. I say that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Let's see how your penchant for arguing with my claims because of who said it, rather than what was said, reacts to that. :lol:
 
[quote name='propeller_head']
they did it to get people to buy the more expensive console and get them to continue buying ps2s. pure & simple.[/quote]

Makes no sense at all. If they wanted people to buy only the 80gb version they wouldnt carry a second SKU plain and simple. They did this to give people who could care less about BC (probably the majority of people) a cheaper option. Also these specs are for the European models as far as ive heard, we dont even know if the 40gb is coming out in north america, and if it does it may very well have the same BC as the 80gb(Remember European market never had full BC like North America/Japan even with the 60gb)

I know its not the same beast as the xbox didnt have nearly as many good games as the ps2 but since I bought my 360 last year I have popped in a regular xbox game exactly once (halo 2, in order to get into halo 3 beta). Fact is most people just dont care about BC.
 
From about 1000 posts ago:
[quote name='The Mana Knight'] Sony isn't hosed right now. Only in a Wii60 fanboy's wet dream they are. :lol:[/quote]Mana, you're getting too agitated and not reading what I wrote at all. I didn't say that Sony is hosed. I said this whole situation of a gazillion console versions is a hose job.

You also missed my point that Microsoft's bajillion SKUs doesn't thrill me either. My point was simply that overall there's less variance to confuse consumers with Microsoft's plan. Less, not none.

I do find it kinda funny that Nintendo, a company historically (and rightly) criticized for continually releasing minor hardware refreshes with their handhelds is the one player in the console race that sells one piece of hardware and one alone. They have yet to even change the pack-in with it (though I imagine that will change when Wii Fit hits).

All three companies should've just released a standard system and modified the free game (*gasp*!) that they pack in with the system. Microsoft should've had a harddrive in every unit; Sony should stop ripping core functionality out of their systems. This whole business model is a joke. One that at best confuses customers, and at worse, seeks to confuse them so that they are tricked into possibly buying more machine than they need or want.
 
I can't wait until Sony applies the same logic to their HDTV lineup:

"Here is a new Sony Bravia 46" 1080p TV: costs 300$ less but does not display SD signal - you should be perfectly happy with your old tube TV sitting next to the new one in case you want to watch all your old favorite shows"
 
[quote name='nadroj1485']Makes no sense at all. If they wanted people to buy only the 80gb version they wouldnt carry a second SKU plain and simple. They did this to give people who could care less about BC (probably the majority of people) a cheaper option. Also these specs are for the European models as far as ive heard, we dont even know if the 40gb is coming out in north america, and if it does it may very well have the same BC as the 80gb(Remember European market never had full BC like North America/Japan even with the 60gb)

I know its not the same beast as the xbox didnt have nearly as many good games as the ps2 but since I bought my 360 last year I have popped in a regular xbox game exactly once (halo 2, in order to get into halo 3 beta). Fact is most people just dont care about BC.[/quote]
it makes perfect sense, if you know any1 in marketing ask them. they will agree w/ me. humans are creatures of habit, & marketing is all about exploiting those habits. people dont like to have their freedom of choice limited. losing their ability to play ps2 games is limiting their freedom. that will make a good amount of people buy now rather than later & spend more rather than less. thats just how it works.

it screws the people who buy the 40gb model (i wish people would stop calling it a SKU, SKUs vary by stores.). but it increases their sales of higher profit consoles & ps2s (which have an insane profit margin now).

& lastly, just because YOU dont care about BC doesnt mean "people" in general dont. YOU are not Everybody.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']:lol: Yes, they're manufacturing a console using the exact same hardware as the 80GB and putting it on the market for $200 less, risking substantial losses, because they want people to buy the more expensive one. Sony's pretty dunderheaded, but not THAT much. You think they're willing to risk even MORE backlash against their business decisions, incur greater losses through a "trojan" console (based on your idea that the last thing Sony has in mind is to actually *sell* these 40GB consoles)...just to sell a $600 console that people weren't buying in the first place?

Feh...you just seem to have it in for any claim I make. I say that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Let's see how your penchant for arguing with my claims because of who said it, rather than what was said, reacts to that. :lol:[/quote]
more fluff from you. you draw out your posts as long as possible to convolute your response.

it makes perfect sense. youre just in denial.

they want to continue selling ps2s
they want to create an incentive to buy the more expensive console

its that simple, that's the reality of the matter.

btw, you flatter yourself thinking i give a hoot about arguing against you. i argue for reason & logic, you just happen to be on the other side in insanityland.
 
I just hope Sony knows how to advertise the differences between the 80gb and the 40gb now. If someone buys the 40gb and buys PS2 games for it, they'll be pretty dissapointed to learn the hard way.

Personally, I still play PS2 games on my old phat PS2 anyway.
 
Myke has mostly been pretty reasonable in this thread except his meltdown on PS3 naysayers about how we're spoiled brats and calling us out for "wanting our cake and eating it too"

I better fucking well get to eat my cake if I'm the customer here. Why should I have to gloss over things that disappoint me as the customer? If I'm going to give Sony money for one of their products, am I the badguy for wanting to be happy with my purchase? I'm happy with my 360, my Wii, my PS2, my PSP.. Did I do something wrong there? was I suppossed to just be somewhat happy?

As the customer of a purely entertainment centered, superflous, non-necessary device, I better get to have my cake, eat it, put ketchup on it, share it with a friend, take pictures of it, have sex with it, and then throw it at a wall afterwards. I don't understand this idea that you're just a whiny baby if you have a problem with the PS3. That doesn't solve my problem, and further promotes my near complete apathy towards the system this generation.

I wanted a cheaper system, well, it's getting there. I wanted better games, but that's not really happening. So 1 for 2, except now there's the issue that another main selling point of upscaling PS2 games is gone, unless I buy a more expensive unit, which negates another of my selling points, so whichever way, sony is still only 1 for 3 on my issues with the system. And thus I go on percieving this as a two system generation..*

*This in no way is a statement of doom for Sony as they will do fine this generation, rather as a statement of personal mindshare of which they have none.
 
BC was the reason why I picked up my 60GB for $500 now instead of waiting for the $400 or $450 model that I knew was coming within a year.
 
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=55108

"Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3."
Click to expand...
- Phil Harrison
 
[quote name='propeller_head']more fluff from you. you draw out your posts as long as possible to convolute your response.

it makes perfect sense. youre just in denial.

they want to continue selling ps2s
they want to create an incentive to buy the more expensive console

its that simple, that's the reality of the matter.

btw, you flatter yourself thinking i give a hoot about arguing against you. i argue for reason & logic, you just happen to be on the other side in insanityland.[/QUOTE]

:lol: Please. This, along with your "consumer dislike of limited freedom of choice" mantra is absurd, simply because it is refuted by the very same console we're talking about. The transition from the 60GB to 80GB found that the EE disappeared suddenly, yet this was in the MORE expensive model. So this same marketing truism you're trumpeting (you certainly like to juggle around absolutes that are anything but absolute, don't you?) was handled in the COMPLETE OPPOSITE way.

So, if your naive belief about this system being manufactured by Sony, but that they really don't have any intention of you BUYING one, is true, then why would the very same company offer a MORE EXPENSIVE CONSOLE earlier this year that has LESS FUNCTIONALITY than its cheaper (60GB) counterpart?

Now, you may come to several conclusions here, all of which are equally absurd, save one: cutting the cost of the console. So, if it's possible for Sony to find the need to cut the manufacturing cost of a $600 console, then it's bloody well goddamned reasonable to think that the same console, less 2 USB slots and card readers, and being sold at $400, is taking SUBSTANTIALLY LARGER losses. With that in mind, they're going to want to cut the cost of that console even more, now, won't they?

Right?
Right.
 
I have and enjoy my PS3 but at this point, not coming in 3rd is, in my opinion, out of reach. That's not to say there won't be a ton of good PS3 games but both the Wii and the 360 are wildly successful. At this point I think Sony should be focusing on finishing this generation with their reputation intact. Cutting out the BC takes a bite out of that.
 
[quote name='jer7583']I better fucking well get to eat my cake if I'm the customer here.[/QUOTE]

Quite true. But many people are making very unreasonable demands. But let's be clear here: it is *Sony* who is doing this to themselves. They caused problems by pricing themselves out of the market, and now they're causing themselves more problems by removing key features as the price of the console dropped $200 in 11 months.

My supposed "meltdown" is not because people want a PS3 with all the bells and whistles; it is because they want a PS3 with all the bells and whistles (EE/Full BC, DualShock, USB, wifi, Blu-Ray, yadda yadda yadda), and they want it **NOW**, and at the price they demand.

It simply can't work that way without doing Sony a great amount of damage in losses (which, again, they have done to themselves). If you want to have the duality that you both want a PS3 and claim they have no games :)lol:, what have you played on the PS3?), then they should have little incentive in getting one in your hands - after all, they won't recover the losses by selling you a console very quickly, seeing as how jaded you are about the console.

It's childish to cry and moan about how you (the royal "you," not you) aren't getting your way. If you want a PS3 now, then pay the going rate. If you want to pay less, then you're going to have to learn to develop the virtue known as patience. Imagine that.

That's as simply as I can put it. The PS3, like every console before it and every console to come after it, will eventually hit the pricepoint you, I, or anyone else will pay. They'll eventually be $15, collecting dust in the corner of a Goodwill somewhere. Just don't expect it to get there anytime soon; I find it unreasonable that people have to act so childish about it; it's as if many folks are collectively throwing a temper tantrum because they can't seem to get over the fact that, if they want what they want NOW, they have little bargaining room over price (save, say, Craigslist).

And I'd like to think I'm a reasonable person in general, though I'll be the first to admit I'm not particularly nice. I think those things are mutually exclusive. A reasonable person, but also a bastard. :lol:
 
[quote name='propeller_head']it makes perfect sense, if you know any1 in marketing ask them. they will agree w/ me. humans are creatures of habit, & marketing is all about exploiting those habits. people dont like to have their freedom of choice limited. losing their ability to play ps2 games is limiting their freedom. that will make a good amount of people buy now rather than later & spend more rather than less. thats just how it works.

it screws the people who buy the 40gb model (i wish people would stop calling it a SKU, SKUs vary by stores.). but it increases their sales of higher profit consoles & ps2s (which have an insane profit margin now).

& lastly, just because YOU dont care about BC doesnt mean "people" in general dont. YOU are not Everybody.[/quote]

Lol. This might make perfect sense to you but for the life of me I cant quite follow the logic...so adding an extra option actually limits your freedom of choice? They didnt take anything away by giving you this option(the 80gb is still going to be on shelves) they just provided an alternative for people who dont want BC but want a cheaper PS3.

And YOU dont know whether I care about BC or not (I did mention I never played any xbox games on my 360 but that was to show that not everyone really cares about BC). I in fact missed most of the great games (my ps2 messed up a long time ago) on ps2 which is one of the reasons I coughed up the extra $100 and bought a 60gb. That being said though I still believe the majority of people could care less about it. But those that do, guess what? they can still have BC with the 80gb.
 
this is madness!!!


hasnt even been announced for north america yet, lets just end this thread, sony reps need to read this thread, so they go go "dam we needa put BC in, raise the price by 0$"
 
[quote name='mykevermin']My supposed "meltdown" is not because people want a PS3 with all the bells and whistles; it is because they want a PS3 with all the bells and whistles (EE/Full BC, DualShock, USB, wifi, Blu-Ray, yadda yadda yadda), and they want it **NOW**, and at the price they demand.[/QUOTE]

Sony's biggest problem right now is that they have no idea what they want or what consumers want. It's safe to say that as of this moment, they're pretty unstable when it comes to their position on certain topics and features. While it's not unheard of a company to put out multiple SKUs (case in point, MS), it's just confusing to everyone because it's different SKUs for different regions. The US has had three different SKUs. Australia has different SKUs and so does Europe.

So when we read headlines talking about price drops in other regions, we automatically get this idea that it's going to affect us. And when it comes to internal hardware/software features and not bundled items, it most likely will, especially if they don't want to lose anymore money if they have to. With all of these different SKUs coming down the pipeline every other month, or so it seems, it just gets frustrating for everyone. It's especially frustrating to hear that they threw out an important feature for many to save money when they could have waited until a few months later to make the announcement but feasibly cut costs down to where they can keep it in.
 
[quote name='nadroj1485']Lol. This might make perfect sense to you but for the life of me I cant quite follow the logic...so adding an extra option actually limits your freedom of choice? They didnt take anything away by giving you this option(the 80gb is still going to be on shelves) they just provided an alternative for people who dont want BC but want a cheaper PS3.[/QUOTE]

Simple economics/business. By putting out a cheaper model that doesn't have standard software/hardware features that are attractive, but are included in more expensive models, consumers are more likely to move towards the one that has more features. Sony is hoping that they'll sell more of the expensive ones, since they lose less money on those. It's what MS did with the 360, offering the Core and Premium packages. Ask MS which 360 was their bestselling one and they'll tell you it was Premium. Ask Apple which iPhone sold more and they'll tell you and even show you figures that it was the 8GB model versus the 4GB one.
 
[quote name='orimental']Simple economics/business. By putting out a cheaper model that doesn't have standard software/hardware features that are attractive, but are included in more expensive models, consumers are more likely to move towards the one that has more features. Sony is hoping that they'll sell more of the expensive ones, since they lose less money on those. It's what MS did with the 360, offering the Core and Premium packages. Ask MS which 360 was their bestselling one and they'll tell you it was Premium. Ask Apple which iPhone sold more and they'll tell you and even show you figures that it was the 8GB model versus the 4GB one.[/QUOTE]

Where I don't think this applies is that the PS3 is struggling to keep up with the competition (it's selling, but it's guaranteed third place at this rate), and Sony knows they need to get people to buy it. The iPhone, OTOH, did sell, and continues to sell, remarkably well (not to mention Apple had intended the overpricing for early adopters along with a fast $200 price drop from the beginning). Sony, IMO, is doing it out of necessity to keep up.

As for other regions/other systems, the only hardware difference Iknow of is that all EU consoles have the same BC that the US 80GB does. Are there other differences?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Where I don't think this applies is that the PS3 is struggling to keep up with the competition (it's selling, but it's guaranteed third place at this rate), and Sony knows they need to get people to buy it. The iPhone, OTOH, did sell, and continues to sell, remarkably well (not to mention Apple had intended the overpricing for early adopters along with a fast $200 price drop from the beginning). Sony, IMO, is doing it out of necessity to keep up.

As for other regions/other systems, the only hardware difference Iknow of is that all EU consoles have the same BC that the US 80GB does. Are there other differences?[/QUOTE]

I think I know what you were going for with that last statement--- The differences in BC et all between US and UK.

It HAS to be that the GS is not going to come down in price at all, and that Sony (as of yet) cannot come up with a decent compatibility rate for software only BC (you know that they have to have some crack team working night and day on it). If UK variant BC was software only, this decision wouldn't had to have been made. There are always megaton PSN updates, however, and I do believe you may see 40 Gigs being able to play ps2 eventually....maybe...possibly.

I'm just glad that I got my ps3 when I did-- but I don't think it places the proverbial gun in mouth just yet. The last games we're going to see on the ps2 are games that no one here would even play.

fuck regardless, I didn't even want this to be an option for Sony--- BC was a great feature for the ps2, one I think that shouldn't be moved to the back of the bus.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Where I don't think this applies is that the PS3 is struggling to keep up with the competition (it's selling, but it's guaranteed third place at this rate), and Sony knows they need to get people to buy it. The iPhone, OTOH, did sell, and continues to sell, remarkably well (not to mention Apple had intended the overpricing for early adopters along with a fast $200 price drop from the beginning). Sony, IMO, is doing it out of necessity to keep up.

As for other regions/other systems, the only hardware difference Iknow of is that all EU consoles have the same BC that the US 80GB does. Are there other differences?[/QUOTE]

No, but their SKUs are obviously going to be different from ours. It's just that everyone groups all PS3 SKUs into one group and assume that it applies everywhere. So there's this odd idea that there are like a million PS3 SKUs, which just hurts our heads to even fathom. Look back and you see people already worrying about what SKU their replacement PS3 will be. It just gets confusing hearing about all of the SKUs out there.
 
[quote name='orimental']Simple economics/business. By putting out a cheaper model that doesn't have standard software/hardware features that are attractive, but are included in more expensive models, consumers are more likely to move towards the one that has more features. Sony is hoping that they'll sell more of the expensive ones, since they lose less money on those. It's what MS did with the 360, offering the Core and Premium packages. Ask MS which 360 was their bestselling one and they'll tell you it was Premium. Ask Apple which iPhone sold more and they'll tell you and even show you figures that it was the 8GB model versus the 4GB one.[/quote]

I'm not arguing that the 80gb wont sell morethan the 40gb model. His original statement was that the only reason they introduced the 40gb model is to get people to buy the 80gb model, why not just have no 40gb model at all? Then he said that somehow the 40gb limits peoples choices.

Having a 4gb iphone doesnt somehow magically make people want the 8gb iphone more than they would if there was no 4gb one to begin with.
 
I don't get how it doesn't AT LEAST have backwards compatability with what was already on the backwards compatability list. That makes no sense.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I don't get how it doesn't AT LEAST have backwards compatability with what was already on the backwards compatability list. That makes no sense.[/quote]
The way I understand it is that part of the backwards compatability was through hardware (gs+ee). In the 80gb version they removed the EE and used software emulation to replace it (which made it slightly less compatible with some games but most were fine). Then with this model they took out the other piece of hardware (gs) and at this time they dont know how to emulate both with software, hence no BC for ps2 games.

Since psone games were always emulated entirely with software they remain unaffected and will still work on the 40gb(although I doubt very many people care)

This is just what ive drawn by reading this thread and other articles, I could be wrong.
 
The rest of the world was clamoring for a price drop, while the few of us want to keep BC. Sony just made a call. Yes, it goes against prior statements, but times change.

I'd prefer a company that reacts to market demand the trends rather than a company that runs itself into the ground. They say insantity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. If Sony had continued with its higher price regardless of BC, they wouldn't have had enough market share to ensure the big name exclusives like MGS4, FF13 + VS, and probably some others.

That's not to say you should give Sony a break for saying one thing before then doing another much later. But when the market cries out for a price drop, and that the high price being the big glaring reason why your system isn't selling, something must be done.

Thankfully, you can still get BC in the other PS3 models.
 
I'm just... I'm just utterly baffled here.

In fact, if anything, I applaud Sony for finding new and interesting ways to baffle me daily.


Do they even realize how much they're undercutting their own consumer security with all of this? I'm almost convinced that they don't.
 
[quote name='nadroj1485']I'm not arguing that the 80gb wont sell morethan the 40gb model. His original statement was that the only reason they introduced the 40gb model is to get people to buy the 80gb model, why not just have no 40gb model at all? Then he said that somehow the 40gb limits peoples choices.

Having a 4gb iphone doesnt somehow magically make people want the 8gb iphone more than they would if there was no 4gb one to begin with.[/QUOTE]

He meant that the 40GB limits their ability to choose what games to play. But because it has no BC, they can't play PS2 games on it and thus alienates a certain consumer set. That is, unless they feel like shelling out cash for a new/used PS2, which negates the purpose of waiting for and buying the cheaper PS3. Instead of being able to consider the 40GB in your selection, you're relegated to looking for a 60GB or settling with the even more expensive 80GB.

Actually a lot of uninformed consumers are wowed at face value will see the model with more features as a bigger bargain or "more bang for your buck". So when they see the 4GB and 8GB models sitting there, they think to themselves "for $100 more, I can double the capacity!". In essence, they are more attracted to the 8GB model because it's there and because they have the ability of choice. If people were forced to choose from only one model, it would still sell well, but being able to choose makes consumers more likely to make such costly investments. They feel that they're making the right decision with going with the more expensive model that they can get more out of. If they're going to spend $500-600, why not get the one that will justify the cost? Psychology and business go hand in hand. I'm not saying that the primary purpose for introducing a SKU with a lower price and less features is to drive consumers to purchase the more expensive model, but it's a nice little psychological trick that businesses like.
 
[quote name='Vanigan']The rest of the world was clamoring for a price drop, while the few of us want to keep BC. Sony just made a call. Yes, it goes against prior statements, but times change.

I'd prefer a company that reacts to market demand the trends rather than a company that runs itself into the ground. They say insantity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. If Sony had continued with its higher price regardless of BC, they wouldn't have had enough market share to ensure the big name exclusives like MGS4, FF13 + VS, and probably some others.

That's not to say you should give Sony a break for saying one thing before then doing another much later. But when the market cries out for a price drop, and that the high price being the big glaring reason why your system isn't selling, something must be done.

Thankfully, you can still get BC in the other PS3 models.[/quote]Umm I don't know if you noticed but from everything I've been seeing the market most certainly did NOT ask for them to remove BC.

Also, Once the current 80 GB stock runs out in Europe you won't be able to buy a system with BC.
 
[quote name='orimental']He meant that the 40GB limits their ability to choose what games to play. But because it has no BC, they can't play PS2 games on it and thus alienates a certain consumer set. That is, unless they feel like shelling out cash for a new/used PS2, which negates the purpose of waiting for and buying the cheaper PS3. Instead of being able to consider the 40GB in your selection, you're relegated to looking for a 60GB or settling with the even more expensive 80GB.

Actually a lot of uninformed consumers are wowed at face value will see the model with more features as a bigger bargain or "more bang for your buck". So when they see the 4GB and 8GB models sitting there, they think to themselves "for $100 more, I can double the capacity!". In essence, they are more attracted to the 8GB model because it's there and because they have the ability of choice. If people were forced to choose from only one model, it would still sell well, but being able to choose makes consumers more likely to make such costly investments. They feel that they're making the right decision with going with the more expensive model that they can get more out of. If they're going to spend $500-600, why not get the one that will justify the cost? Psychology and business go hand in hand. I'm not saying that the primary purpose for introducing a SKU with a lower price and less features is to drive consumers to purchase the more expensive model, but it's a nice little psychological trick that businesses like.[/quote]


Yah guess I misread what he said in the second post, makes a little more sense now, but I still say his original assertion is wrong. You can give people all the choices in the world and unless they want something they arent going to buy it. If $600 was to much for them to pay for a system with BC today its going to be to much for them to pay for that same system tommorow. Introducing a 40gb system w/o BC isnt going to make anyone run out and buy the 80gb system for the same price they decided was to high before, they are just going to wait until the 80gb drops in price.

Price is more important to a lot of people than BC, sony isnt taking away BC from those who want it they are just giving those who dont a cheaper alternative.
 
After reading the arguments pro and con, I guess I agree with the people saying that it's not a huge deal, as you can always buy an 80gb if you want BC. It's a shame that there won't be a model with full hardware BC going forward, though, and it'd be a seriously stupid move if they were to kill BC altogether in the future.

I'll probably just end up buying a used 60gb later to get full BC. I'd get one now, but it's just not worth $500 to me.
 
[quote name='KwanzaaTimmy']I think I know what you were going for with that last statement--- The differences in BC et all between US and UK.

It HAS to be that the GS is not going to come down in price at all, and that Sony (as of yet) cannot come up with a decent compatibility rate for software only BC (you know that they have to have some crack team working night and day on it). If UK variant BC was software only, this decision wouldn't had to have been made. There are always megaton PSN updates, however, and I do believe you may see 40 Gigs being able to play ps2 eventually....maybe...possibly.
[/QUOTE]It's the GS that won't drop in price (Implementing blu-ray is even cheaper than using the GS or EE). The GS/EE have already reached their lowest point pretty much in manufacturing costs. It's like, if Sony were to continue to use them, it would always make PS3 at least $50 more. To remove the EE, at least makes the PS3 half as much more. Also, by containing all the components needed to the BC for PS2 games, it could keep the console from becoming as small as they'd like in the future. The initial PS2 models were 50% PS1 hardware BC, but the slim model was 100% software I believe (which is one reason the slim PS2 costs way cheaper to make).

When Sony mentioned downloadable PS2 games in the future, I seriously wouldn't be surprised to see them emulate a popular games and sell them off of PSN (or maybe make some games compatible).

Oh course the PS3 will play PS1 games, but that's because it costs nothing to implement it. If there was a PS2 emulator out there which could play PS2 games (not using the GS and EE) with very few issues (at least run 80% of the games), you better bet Sony would have included BC.

It's a matter of, they badly need a SKU to get to the mass market price, and continuing to include BC (unless there's a solution to where the EE/GS isn't needed. That's one reason MS has an advantage there) will keep the costs high (the only other price that may not drop much is the HDD, but the HDD is essential for the PS3 experience).
 
I just wonder why they took out BC versus the wifi. They're probably close in price and one was a system seller (when I bought a PS3 - now sold - I bought it because of the prospect of playing PS2 games now and PS3 games later) and the other just a convenience - and one that can be added externally later!
 
Anyone care to point me to a link that says the EE+GS are seperate in the PS3? As I mentioned earlier, I'm pretty sure they've been a single unit since 2003-ish.
 
sorta off topic but i was planning on picking up a ps3 this holiday season ( i just bought a ps2 slim a few months ago) My tv is a 1080i toshiba. i read a while back about issues with tvs that output in 1080i. Can anyone please explain what kinds of problems it has or kindly provide a link to some info, thanks.
 
Looks like the PS3 has always had the integrated EE+GS chip, but seems they have removed the EE part and reduced the size.

Comparing Japan/USA vs Euro PS3:
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/151
http://www.chipworks.com/blogs.aspx?id=3252&blogid=86

EE+GS mb:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_32.jpg

Euro mb:
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/PS3-motherboard-PAL/PS3_motherboard_9.JPG
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/PS3-motherboard-PAL/PS3_motherboard_12.JPG

You can see that the new CXD2972GB (GS only chip) is smaller than the Cell Processor and RSX. The EE+GS Combo was about same size.

Guess that GS chip is the one removed for this 40GB model, which also removed BC. So the Euro BC before was hardware+software solution.


I'm guessing they removed BC instead of WiFi is to support the other product they're trying to sell, the PSP. Think they were pushing that [SIZE=-1]Remote Play feature and think that needs WiFi to connect the PS3 + PSP. I guess you probably could do it with a non-WiFi PS3 + wireless router + PSP, but think that would be difficult for normal people to configure.

[/SIZE]
 
[quote name='SleepyBum']Looks like the PS3 has always had the integrated EE+GS chip, but seems they have removed the EE part and reduced the size.

Comparing Japan/USA vs Euro PS3:
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/151
http://www.chipworks.com/blogs.aspx?id=3252&blogid=86

EE+GS mb:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_32.jpg

Euro mb:
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/PS3-motherboard-PAL/PS3_motherboard_9.JPG
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/PS3-motherboard-PAL/PS3_motherboard_12.JPG

You can see that the new CXD2972GB (GS only chip) is smaller than the Cell Processor and RSX. The EE+GS Combo was about same size.

Guess that GS chip is the one removed for this 40GB model, which also removed BC. So the Euro BC before was hardware+software solution.


I'm guessing they removed BC instead of WiFi is to support the other product they're trying to sell, the PSP. Think they were pushing that [SIZE=-1]Remote Play feature and think that needs WiFi to connect the PS3 + PSP. I guess you probably could do it with a non-WiFi PS3 + wireless router + PSP, but think that would be difficult for normal people to configure.

[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
That clears it up, thanks.
 
Even though this 40GB doesn't have the EE, wouldn't they take the same approach as MS, and the PS3 in Europe and use software emulation?
 
[quote name='propeller_head']
They want people to buy the more expensive, much higher profit margin unit. because its such a "bargain"[/QUOTE]
I think a more accurate description would be "the unit that is less of a huge loss."

Why do multiple SKUs get people all verklempt? I don't see what the big deal is.
 
[quote name='carthitup']I'm just... I'm just utterly baffled here.

In fact, if anything, I applaud Sony for finding new and interesting ways to baffle me daily.


Do they even realize how much they're undercutting their own consumer security with all of this? I'm almost convinced that they don't.[/QUOTE]

It's a business decision...How are they undercutting their customer security? What the hell does that even mean...

Everyone, fanboys included need to realize these are business decisions...Who give's a shit if they have 10 sku's...There's competition out there this season, which is great for consumers...Let Sony, MS, and Nintendo worry about these issues, let's just play all the games and have fun.
 
[quote name='dserafin1986']It's a business decision...How are they undercutting their customer security? What the hell does that even mean...

Everyone, fanboys included need to realize these are business decisions...Who give's a shit if they have 10 sku's...There's competition out there this season, which is great for consumers...Let Sony, MS, and Nintendo worry about these issues, let's just play all the games and have fun.[/QUOTE]
I think "consumer security" means that people want to feel secure in the knowledge that their playstation investment won't be wasted if they decide to upgrade. With each iteration of the PS3, the PS2 BC has gotten poorer and poorer.

The SKU issue, in my mind, is somewhat overblown except in cases like this because the various SKUs have markedly different abilities and that's confusing to potential customers. Especially for gift-givers who may not know what's what - wives buying gifts for husbands, parents for kids, etc. - so they don't know what to get. So they buy a Wii because you can go wrong there. ;)
 
[quote name='pete5883']I think a more accurate description would be "the unit that is less of a huge loss."

Why do multiple SKUs get people all verklempt? I don't see what the big deal is.[/quote]
that's not the case anymore. the part that was costing them an arm & a leg (blu-ray) costs about 5% what it did when those inital cost reports were generated. cell has also gotten cheaper through production yields as well. i wouldnt be at all surprised if they've already broken even. if they are losing money its probably much closer to $50 than the original $240 estimate. and they're easily making that up on licencing from games & BD movies, not to mention the insane profit margin they'll have down the road. just like the PS2, (2.5 years after its release it had already made up for the initial loss, & was making about ¥125.4 billion ($1.053 billion) per fiscal quarter)
 
[quote name='SleepyBum']Looks like the PS3 has always had the integrated EE+GS chip, but seems they have removed the EE part and reduced the size.

Comparing Japan/USA vs Euro PS3:
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/151
http://www.chipworks.com/blogs.aspx?id=3252&blogid=86

EE+GS mb:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_32.jpg

Euro mb:
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/PS3-motherboard-PAL/PS3_motherboard_9.JPG
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/PS3-motherboard-PAL/PS3_motherboard_12.JPG

You can see that the new CXD2972GB (GS only chip) is smaller than the Cell Processor and RSX. The EE+GS Combo was about same size.

Guess that GS chip is the one removed for this 40GB model, which also removed BC. So the Euro BC before was hardware+software solution.


I'm guessing they removed BC instead of WiFi is to support the other product they're trying to sell, the PSP. Think they were pushing that [SIZE=-1]Remote Play feature and think that needs WiFi to connect the PS3 + PSP. I guess you probably could do it with a non-WiFi PS3 + wireless router + PSP, but think that would be difficult for normal people to configure.

[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

That makes sense. I just assumed the Euro and 80GB PS3s solely used software, which is why it seemed pointless to remove that, as it would not save any sort of costs.
 
The thing is, BC will be forgotten as long as Sony can get additional games. I just wish that BC could be dropped after we've already gotten many many PS3 games. In actuality we're almost there..... someone posted that between now and Chrismas Sony was supposed to have at least 65 games released.
 
[quote name='torifile']I think "consumer security" means that people want to feel secure in the knowledge that their playstation investment won't be wasted if they decide to upgrade. With each iteration of the PS3, the PS2 BC has gotten poorer and poorer.

The SKU issue, in my mind, is somewhat overblown except in cases like this because the various SKUs have markedly different abilities and that's confusing to potential customers. Especially for gift-givers who may not know what's what - wives buying gifts for husbands, parents for kids, etc. - so they don't know what to get. So they buy a Wii because you can go wrong there. ;)[/quote]


I don't really see the concern anymore about the BC for the PS2 those slims are so small you could easily keep one around with no hassles..and that might be what Sony is looking at.. Xbox made you DL the BC with the systems and not to many people cried about that, as for you saying with the Wii you cant go wrong there......


Hmm sure it is fully BC but you need G-cube memory cards which if your just buying G-cube stuff now due to buying a Wii those things can be hard to come by.
You need to use the Wii mote to select the channel then go back to a C-cube controller....

On top of that lol by next year people are going to have a whole closet full of Wii controllers and add on's for the Wii-motes...

My own opinion on the Wii was yeah it was great to be able to play older games but the little annoying hassle every time got to me along with trying to find memory cards.. To each his own though I had a Wii, and 360 and ended up getting rid of both and remain happy with my PS2..
 
I just meant there's only one SKU for people to pick so gift-givers can feel assured they're buying the "right" model.

Derrick - I forgot to respond to your PM but they're both gone. I'll update my list. :)
 
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