40gb PS3 $399, no bc - 11/2, $499 80gb, limited bc, now. 56,877 new skus rumored

[quote name='dpatel']I agree that the majority of gamers are not going to care. People on gaming message boards represent such a small portion of the entire gaming population. The majority of the population is represented by the casuals who probably could not care less about BC and would prefer cheaper models (as evidenced by the uproar regarding MSs shoddy BC when the competition, at the time, was offering perfect or near perfect. While it was an unpopular move at the time, it does not seem to have hindered them too much). I am part of the minority that is against the removal of BC, but, from a business standpoint, and can totally see why they did do this and why it will help them more than hurt them.[/QUOTE]

I can agree that most hard core gamers will not care. They know the 40GB has no BC and they will either buy it, or pass for a different configuration. The problem comes from the average joe who buys the 40GB expecting it to be BC like his PS2 was. When he finds out its not...its gonna cause issues.
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Can't wait to see how an average Target salesperson handles these questions when I send my girlfriend to ask. :lol:[/QUOTE]

You have too much free time :p
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']I can agree that most hard core gamers will not care. They know the 40GB has no BC and they will either buy it, or pass for a different configuration. The problem comes from the average joe who buys the 40GB expecting it to be BC like his PS2 was. When he finds out its not...its gonna cause issues.[/QUOTE]

Agree, but I believe that the majority of 'average joes' out there don't care about BC. There is no doubt that plenty will get screwed over thinking their model will be the same as other models out there (as far as BC is concerned), but not enough to make severely impact Sony and their profit, which, unfortunately, is all a company cares about.

I'm wondering how many of these 'average joes' actually knows that Sony promised 100% BC. I remember some article stating that about 40% don't know about its BD capabilities (something Sony has pushed from the start, and something clearly labeled on the box), so I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of 'average joes' won't ever know they are being gypped (sp?) on BC.
 
how are they saving money by removing software enable bc? hardware I can understand but software based? that doesn't make a lick of sense?
 
The answer is that the BC wasnt entirely hardware based before. Even without the Emotion Engine, the Graphics Synthesizer was there, and now its not. Something like that anyway.

They could develop a true software only BC, but they dont want to. They've stated that they want to put that money to use elsewhere.
 
[quote name='sparklecopy']how are they saving money by removing software enable bc? hardware I can understand but software based? that doesn't make a lick of sense?[/quote]
You have to pay extremely skilled developers a shit load of money to engineer, write, and continually support and update it.

It's cheaper to include the hardware, I promise.
 
[quote name='b3b0p']You have to pay extremely skilled developers a shit load of money to engineer, write, and continually support and update it.

It's cheaper to include the hardware, I promise.[/quote]

It seems with the 80GB and all the Euro versions of the PS3 that the GS chip is enough to support alot of games. I wonder if they'll still support that kind of BC, it seems the PS3 is more than able to emulate the EE Chip.
 
[quote name='b3b0p']You have to pay extremely skilled developers a shit load of money to engineer, write, and continually support and update it.

It's cheaper to include the hardware, I promise.[/QUOTE]


but they've already spent the larger chunk of change getting much of the PS2's library up and running in software form.
 
Ongoing update on the domestic U.S. release ...

For $399.99 you will receive:
- PS3 System w/ 40gb HDD
- 2 USB ports (downgraded from 4)
- No multi-slot flash card reader
- No backward compatibility for PS1 or PS2 titles
- Black casing w/ silver trim finish (identical to the 60gb version)
- 1 Regular SIXAXIS controller (rumble DS3 won't be out til Spring '08)
- Spiderman 3 movie on blu-ray
- 5 select blu-ray titles via mail-in promotion
- Arrival date: Nov. 2, 2007


More details will be forthcoming as the 40gb version will roll out in Europe this week (Oct.10, 2007), hopefully. Time to save my pennies.
 
Same deal with PSone. The PS1 games from the PSN store were designed specifically for PS3/PSP, so no change there.

Why spend any effort or money to make free BC, when they can just sell it on PSN. It also means PS2s can continue to sit in people's homes and Sony can continue to sell the hardware which still generates a per unit profit. Unlike PS3s.
 
I heard the 40GB is still almost 100% compatible with PS1 games (disc based and from PSN). Not sure if that is true.
 
Actually, I've heard the same thing. I think it could be because the PS1 is such an old system that it's possible to emulate the whole system on a much higher level and still have it run well. Meanwhile, trying to emulate the PS2 at a high level just doesn't yield acceptable performance.

So, instead they'd have to emulate it on a low level, game by game basis, and that's a huge library of games to emulate.

On the other hand, while I know petitions don't work, perhaps we can start some sort of campaign to get Sony to dedicate a small team to doing full emulation on some classic PS2 games. It could be something simple like gettings gaming news sites that cover the PS3 to post polls to see if people want Sony to do purely software based emulation.

They could start out small, just take the code from some PS2 emulator online and start there with a small list of confirmed games that work fine.
 
White PS3 am here....

http://high-scoreonline.com/2007/10/08/japan-40gb-ps3-dual-shock-3-tidbits/

ps303.jpg
 
:rofl:

Wow, I'm extremely happy with my purchase of a 20 GB system with EE now.

I just read the details on this hack job of a system. WTF is the point of buying this? It's a total bust. Why not just dry fuck customers up the ass and make them pay $400 for it? These new systems Sony is trolling out SUCK. I thought as a system matures, then its abilities should actually IMPROVE. Both MS & Nintendo have a pretty decent grasp on this concept.

I thought Sony couldn't do any worse with their mismanagement this generation, but I was wrong. For every mistake MS makes, Sony makes about at least a dozen. Even The King of WTF, Nintendo, is laughing at this.

I can only hope some decent games come out by the end of the year. I only have four games taking permanent residence in my PS3 library, and I have gotten bored or completed them. I think I might try Folklore out. Back to playing MP:p3 for the Wii and Bioshock on 360 :)

[quote name='b3b0p']You have to pay extremely skilled developers a shit load of money to engineer, write, and continually support and update it.

It's cheaper to include the hardware, I promise.[/QUOTE]

I mentioned this in another thread too. By removing the EE in the first place, Sony had to change assembly processes, which has its own costs. Sony's strategy has gotten worse in the last year, which I didn't think was possible. I don't even know what their strategy is anymore.
 
I like my electronics to be black (waiting on that black wii!), but I am glad to see they are offering something new in Japan with this version. I've seen that Sony gives local folks power to do what they want in terms of the systems after they give them the specs to better cater to their region. I wonder how this'll play out there.
 
[quote name='opportunity777']I just read the details on this hack job of a system. WTF is the point of buying this? It's a total bust. Why not just dry fuck customers up the ass and make them pay $400 for it? These new systems Sony is trolling out SUCK. I thought as a system matures, then its abilities should actually IMPROVE. Both MS & Nintendo have a pretty decent grasp on this concept.

I thought Sony couldn't do any worse with their mismanagement this generation, but I was wrong. For every mistake MS makes, Sony makes about at least a dozen. Even The King of WTF, Nintendo, is laughing at this.

I mentioned this in another thread too. By removing the EE in the first place, Sony had to change assembly processes, which has its own costs. Sony's strategy has gotten worse in the last year, which I didn't think was possible. I don't even know what their strategy is anymore.[/quote]

The system Sony is currently selling for $500 is selling at a loss--a rather large one at that. With consumers clearly not backing the high pricing tier Sony expected them to, who can blame them for wanting to streamline the console and change manufacturing in a way that will allow them to produce cheaper systems in both the short and long term? I don't think whatever costs are associated with taking the EE and the PS2 graphics chip out are more than what they will save by not having to put that shit in there, either.

The way I see it, Sony got rid of the things that were less "necessary" like the multiformat memory card slots and extra USB ports (while nice to have, most games aren't four player, and you can always add on the extra ports/memory slots via some add-on device later), and kept things they think consumers want like the wireless networking, so they can put more consoles into peoples' homes and stop losing so much money in the process. There's nothing absurd or ill-conceived about that. I dare say it's good stategy.

Microsoft is in a different boat. They had to change shit because their shit is broke...or will break sooner than intended. Also, they are in more direct competition with Sony due to their support of HD graphics and HD media (hence the addition of HDMI). Regardless of Sony's difficulties, it'd be daft of MS to leave their console the way it launched.

I don't see Nintendo doing anything to improve the Wii at this time.
 
[quote name='gunm']The system Sony...[/QUOTE]

I would say the multi-card reader was useless. The Pro Duo format and a PS2 mem card reader would have been sufficient.

I would say the strategy has been awful from beginning to now.

The Bluray was an unfortunate unnecessary extra. They could have put out the Bluray format, see how it faired and then incorporated in the following generation.

Or ... Sony could have waited until this year to bring their product to market and had an exclusive window for launch. The system would have been cheaper to manufacture. Developers would have another year with the already difficult SDK for the system. Instead, Sony created an overly expensive product to compete against the lower price Wii and the superior libray of the 360. Sony felt "booming" sales and "exclusive" rights on certain game licenses would cover any loss they had anticipated by bringing out such an expensive piece of hardware. The name would sell itself. It did not.

I think taking an already expensive product and turning into ass is a step backward. Also, the PS1 and PS2 game libraries helped extend the puny PS3 library. It is funny how a Sony spokesman / corporate employee flat out said consumers do not respond to multiple SKU, but now they decide to release a new SKU in Nov.

Also, Sony has already shown they are incapable of accurately (within a certain amount of basis points) of predicting their costs and revenues for this generation. I do not trust their estimates, as far as, how much in costs they will save by shelving a bunch of their features. Secondly, if they are going to continue BC with the software emulation on the 80 GB, then it's another cost they are running simultaneously to changes in their assembly process. The whole thing is a bunch of crap. I wish I could see the financials for myself.

Either way, I don't care if they turn it around because I have no intention on selling the PS3 at this time. I play my 360 and Wii (which I hadn't played in months, thank you for Paper Mario, Metroid Prime 3, etc.) enough right now. I just hope the wait for quality PS3 games is worth it.
 
[quote name='opportunity777']Secondly, if they are going to continue BC with the software emulation on the 80 GB, then it's another cost they are running simultaneously to changes in their assembly process.[/quote]

Actually, there is word Sony my want to save on the costs to have their teams work on making sure games with with the BC and scrape it all together.
 
400 is still way too much for me since I already got the 360 and Wii.

Sony, make it worth 300 dollars and then we'll talk. Maybe I'll be able to snag it for less than that used without all the accessories somewhere though....

As far as BC goes, I'm not that lazy that I can't get my ps2 out...although it still kinda sucks.

Even though I have a 360, the ps3 actually seems a lot better to me based on its future releases. It stuns me that people are ignoring IMO the vastly superior titles on the ps3 because of the price.

I thought everyone hated Halo...ah well...I'll never get gamers!
 
-you really can live without the memory card slots... I bet you can use a flash stick for a memory card.
-the usb slots, you only need to charge the controllers.. so if you have 4 then you may need a charger. But playing wise.. you can stil hook up 7 controllers via bluetooth.
-BC - not really needed if you have one that's working(ps2) I don't believe that people are playing that much PS2 once they buy PS3...

-

-
 
[quote name='Thomas96']I don't believe that people are playing that much PS2 once they buy PS3.[/quote]Actually, a large number of people are playing PS2 games on their PS3. The upscaling looks tons better on my HDTV, and I was able to move my PS2 to the other room. There weren't any games I wanted at the time of my purchase (not much has changed since I bought it =\ ), but when they announced they were discontinuing the 60GB with the EE, I ran out and bought it. Had Sony never removed the PS2 chips, I would've waited a long ass time to buy a PS3.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']-you really can live without the memory card slots... I bet you can use a flash stick for a memory card.
-the usb slots, you only need to charge the controllers.. so if you have 4 then you may need a charger. But playing wise.. you can stil hook up 7 controllers via bluetooth.
-BC - not really needed if you have one that's working. I don't believe that people are playing that much PS2 once they buy PS3...

-

-[/QUOTE]Yeah, I use USB flash on my PS3.

As for USB slots, I no longer use my PS3 to charge controllers. I find it easier just using my PC instead (while I'm on it) and do other things while it charges (charges quicker too).

Well, I'll admit I used BC a lot early on, but that was because I owned very few PS3 games and had an SDTV. Once I got an HDTV and more PS3 games, I just can't go back to PS2 anymore. Every PS2 game I buy (except for DDR SuperNOVA 2) goes unplayed.
 
I don't think the introduction of the 40GB system is an indicator that BC is dead. I also don't think that it's wise to buy the 40GB system if you think you'll want BC at some point in the future.

It's pretty clear, folks. None of you are the average dumbass consumer. You all know the following:

1) The 60GB system has full BC, but is being discontinued
2) The 80GB system has 50-55% BC, with titles being added incrementally
3) The 40GB system has NO BC, and it doesn't look like it ever will

You, as a consumer, are armed with knowledge. If you demand BC, but are waiting for a PS3 price drop before buying, guess what? You're gonna wait longer. If you can live without BC, or never planned on getting rid of your PS2, guess what? You can dive right into the 40GB for a good price. If you insist on full BC, then you're part of a few people whose consumer hands are TRULY tied right now, since quantities are finite and will disappear at some point.

Use your knowledge to select a PS3 you want, or shaddup and wait for another price drop. There is NO indication that BC will ever disappear from the expensive model of the PS3, and its foolish to think they will.
 
[quote name='NamPaehc']Actually, there is word Sony my want to save on the costs to have their teams work on making sure games with with the BC and scrape it all together.[/QUOTE]

I have seen this rumor as well. They will still have to keep some sort of development / software engineer team for emulation of PSN titles, so BC won't be completely scrapped from their costs.

Maybe Sony should put out a DVD-only version of the PS3 for $199 and have it only play PS2 & PS1 games with a built-in harddrive. :roll:

I apparently had to edit the last statement with an eyeroll.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
2) The 80GB system has 50-55% BC, with titles being added incrementally
[/QUOTE]It's actually 80-85% BC actually. Some newer games may not work and there's still some games out there that don't work. Still, it's not a bad number, but far from being as complete as the 60GB. I'm thinking it will be 90% BC in the future.
[quote name='opportunity777']I have seen this rumor as well. They will still have to keep some sort of development / software engineer team for emulation of PSN titles, so BC won't be completely scrapped from their costs.

Maybe Sony should put out a DVD-only version of the PS3 for $199 and have it only play PS2 & PS1 games with a built-in harddrive. :)[/QUOTE]Blu-ray only costs Sony an extra $8. It's the Cell and RSX that costs a lot. Using a HDD isn't exactly cheap either.
 
well, the upside for this (sorry, I don't like the idea of the 40gb...) is that it makes a $99 PS2 more plausible, I think.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']Blu-ray only costs Sony an extra $8. It's the Cell and RSX that costs a lot. Using a HDD isn't exactly cheap either.[/quote]

Think he was making a joke ManaKnight.
 
THe problem is, he was using sarcasm, and sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet. Also considering his previous posts he established himself as someone who would seriously consider this.

Don't bother using the smiley defense either, if you can't communicate what you're really saying through the written word, a smiley will just confuse things.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I don't think the introduction of the 40GB system is an indicator that BC is dead. I also don't think that it's wise to buy the 40GB system if you think you'll want BC at some point in the future.

It's pretty clear, folks. None of you are the average dumbass consumer. You all know the following:

1) The 60GB system has full BC, but is being discontinued
2) The 80GB system has 50-55% BC, with titles being added incrementally
3) The 40GB system has NO BC, and it doesn't look like it ever will

You, as a consumer, are armed with knowledge. If you demand BC, but are waiting for a PS3 price drop before buying, guess what? You're gonna wait longer. If you can live without BC, or never planned on getting rid of your PS2, guess what? You can dive right into the 40GB for a good price. If you insist on full BC, then you're part of a few people whose consumer hands are TRULY tied right now, since quantities are finite and will disappear at some point.

Use your knowledge to select a PS3 you want, or shaddup and wait for another price drop. There is NO indication that BC will ever disappear from the expensive model of the PS3, and its foolish to think they will.[/QUOTE]

you know you're right.. because this is not a matter of BC can't be done.. emulation wise... its just a matter of Sony trying to pool their resources to remedy the most common complaint... lack of games.
Plus avg joe consumer is going to buy the PS3 40gb before they even realize that it doesn't do BC...

One thing is that Sony needs to watch what it says.. because, instead of saying that "they have no plans to do BC w/ the 40gb console" howabout saying something like... "oh its a possibility if the fans want it" - meaning if people buy buy buy PS3... or "right now we're going to focus on some new PS3 IPs" say something that at least makes people think you're going to support it.. at least for this holiday season you don't lose potential sales, just because you told people in a nut shell that there's no chance we're going to do it.

But with that, I still think that BC is going to be big... because PS2 games are still coming out.. and selling software is good, whether its PS3, or PS2.
 
[quote name='Punk_Raven']can 80 gigs play newer PS2 games?[/QUOTE]Some may run while some may not initially. I heard someone at GAF couldn't get GGX2: Accent Core to play. There will probably be an update to fix that though.
 
The Japanese 40GB is priced too fuckin' HOT, man. I don't know if it's Sony's aggressive pricing strategy, the weak dollar, or a combination of the two (most likely), but the white PS3 is US$340, converting from the Yen.

:hot:
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The Japanese 40GB is priced too fuckin' HOT, man. I don't know if it's Sony's aggressive pricing strategy, the weak dollar, or a combination of the two (most likely), but the white PS3 is US$340, converting from the Yen.

:hot:[/QUOTE]Well, a 20GB PS3 was priced at $430 at launch, so that doesn't surprise me (compared to $500 here).

Sony losing Monster Hunter 3 to Wii, I'm not sure if it will help.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']Well, a 20GB PS3 was priced at $430 at launch, so that doesn't surprise me (compared to $500 here).

Sony losing Monster Hunter 3 to Wii, I'm not sure if it will help.[/QUOTE]


omg, when did sony lose Monster Hunter 3?
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']There will probably be an update to fix that though.[/QUOTE]
I think "probably" might be optimistic. I don't think Sony hasn't updated the BC yet, and I don't think they've made any indication that they're going to.
 
[quote name='pete5883']I think "probably" might be optimistic. I don't think Sony hasn't updated the BC yet, and I don't think they've made any indication that they're going to.[/quote]Every FW update since the one that enabled software emulation of PS2 games (1.6 I believe) has brought BC updates.

Sony just doesn't mention them.
 
[quote name='anarchyburger']http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/679874/Japan_Gets_40GB_PlayStation_3.html

ok guys read that article, does anyone think the 60gb model will go down further in price? maybe like $50 lower like the arrticle suggests. if they're doing it in Japan, they might do it here...

so i might have to wait a little bit longer to pick up a 60gb ps3[/quote]
Since the 60 GB's on its way out once the stock's gone, I doubt it. It's more likely that the 80 GB will get a price drop to $500 when the 40 GB comes out.
 
I really want BC, so the 40gb is a no-go for me =\

Any idea on how long until the 60gb versions will be completely gone? I want one, but I'm trying to wait it out.
 
[quote name='illmatic21']I really want BC, so the 40gb is a no-go for me =\

Any idea on how long until the 60gb versions will be completely gone? I want one, but I'm trying to wait it out.[/quote]
All the 60 GB's out there on shelves are all there is left. Sony's shipped them all out of the warehouses as of about a month ago.
 
[quote name='dallow']Every FW update since the one that enabled software emulation of PS2 games (1.6 I believe) has brought BC updates.

Sony just doesn't mention them.[/QUOTE]
There were a few updates for the models with the Emotion Engine, but there's been 1 firmware update since the release of the 80GB model.

No FW update enabled software emulation, perhaps you mean 1.8 which enabled upscaling. But like I said, there's been 1 FW update since then. If you care to name any games which have been updated, I'd love to be wrong.
 
[quote name='pete5883']There were a few updates for the models with the Emotion Engine, but there's been 1 firmware update since the release of the 80GB model.

No FW update enabled software emulation, perhaps you mean 1.8 which enabled upscaling. But like I said, there's been 1 FW update since then. If you care to name any games which have been updated, I'd love to be wrong.[/quote]You forget that the PS3 has been Emotion Engine-less in Europe since launch there.

It started at 1.6 with BC then.
 
Yeah if you want a 60GB version you'll have to act soon. You should use the Bestbuy, Circuit City, etc. websites and keep track on availability of the 60GB version in your area. Some websites like Target, Costco, Sonystyle, etc. no longer have 60GB listed I think. Amazon.com and Walmart.com still have it though. Safe to assume the holidays will wipe out the last ones so you really only have a couple of months or so at the most to wait.

I'm just holding out at this point for the odd chance that a store will put them on sale when the 40GB arrives. I assume an official price drop won't happen since sony supposedly has cleared them out. I'll make a move in about a month I think.
 
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