Accepting Paypal friends & family/gifting payments on CAG. (Updated 6/15/2016)

[quote name='saetia']So, yeah the timing on enforcing this Paypal UA is bullshit. Had I known that I would not be allowed to have buyers cover paypal fees, I would've probably just gone the Ebay route for my current auction.

Man, I am seriously thinking of ending my Lowball Auction. There is no way I am eating at least $60 in fees to accomodate a non-Paypal endorsed site. Shipping is already gonna kick my ass.[/QUOTE]

Ebay would still cost you more. A lot more.
 
[quote name='saetia']So, yeah the timing on enforcing this Paypal UA is bullshit. Had I known that I would not be allowed to have buyers cover paypal fees, I would've probably just gone the Ebay route for my current auction.

Man, I am seriously thinking of ending my Lowball Auction. There is no way I am eating at least $60 in fees to accomodate a non-Paypal endorsed site. Shipping is already gonna kick my ass.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='allyourblood']Ebay would still cost you more. A lot more.[/QUOTE]

I understand where he is coming from though. The heaviest impact of this does fall on people who are having lowball auctions, and since that currently includes me as well I'm not unsympathetic to what he's saying.

In my eyes, as long as I am providing other fee-free means by which a seller can pay for an item (Amazon Payments, Amazon GC, Concealed cash) then it's not unreasonable to ask the buyer to cover the fees if they choose to use paypal as a payment. I am not at all saying I'm going to ignore what shrike is saying, if this is the rule now than of course I am going to follow it.

In the end, I think this is going to cause more trouble than it solves. If there's any group of people who are going to get hot and bothered over who pays seventy five cents, it's CAGs. I don't envy saetia having to deal with people on that, especially since he is a relatively new trader having such a high-volume sale.
 
I'm willing to befriend anyone I trade with IRL so that I can send them a gift of money to celebrate "Happy Tuesday" and they can send me a videogame to celebrate "Happy Wednesday - Payment Received".

Kidding aside, I'm probably not going to proceed with the lowball auction I was planning now that other companies UA's are being enforced on the site. It would probably end up costing me money to have a lowball after shipping and the nickel and diming from Paypal.
 
First of all, resorting to name-calling is pretty childish. Surely you're more mature than that...?

Secondly, I have no respect for people that turn a blind eye to theft. If you support theft, that states a lot about you as a person.

Not only are you stealing from a company, you're cheating your fellow CAGs by making them pay what YOU should be paying (Paypal fees).

You don't have to worry about you and I trading...I don't trade with crooks :bouncy:



[quote name='DAWG26']There are lots of respected CAGs that ask you to cover the paypal fees. I dont do it but I understand those that do. You really make yourself sound like a jack ass by threatning to report people who do that. Please remind me to never trade with you if I ever send you a pm![/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='saetia']So, yeah the timing on enforcing this Paypal UA is bullshit. Had I known that I would not be allowed to have buyers cover paypal fees, I would've probably just gone the Ebay route for my current auction.

Man, I am seriously thinking of ending my Lowball Auction. There is no way I am eating at least $60 in fees to accomodate a non-Paypal endorsed site. Shipping is already gonna kick my ass.[/QUOTE]Enforcing Paypal's UA isn't something we have the direct control to make any changes on. What happens on Paypal is outside of CAG's control, as it's their site. What I'm trying to do is make sure we don't give Paypal a reason to question their loss of revenue on their fees which are spelled out in their UA.

[quote name='bvharris']I understand where he is coming from though. The heaviest impact of this does fall on people who are having lowball auctions, and since that currently includes me as well I'm not unsympathetic to what he's saying.

In my eyes, as long as I am providing other fee-free means by which a seller can pay for an item (Amazon Payments, Amazon GC, Concealed cash) then it's not unreasonable to ask the buyer to cover the fees if they choose to use paypal as a payment. I am not at all saying I'm going to ignore what shrike is saying, if this is the rule now than of course I am going to follow it.

In the end, I think this is going to cause more trouble than it solves. If there's any group of people who are going to get hot and bothered over who pays seventy five cents, it's CAGs. I don't envy saetia having to deal with people on that, especially since he is a relatively new trader having such a high-volume sale.[/QUOTE]There's always going to be someone that gets hot and bothered over $0.75 or other such fees. eBay and Amazon Marketplace easily charge more in fees for their items, and in the case of eBay, you're stuck using Paypal regardless if you want to do something else or not. I was going to list an item on Amazon Marketplace and they were going to take almost $17 off an item that was going to be $90, plus I was going to take a hit on shipping, since I was going to ship it media mail w/insurance and signature confirmation, due to its rarity. It ended up not being worth it. Here, I'd have listed it for less and not taken a bath on what I'd have made on it.

All I'm doing is pointing out policies stated in Paypal's UA and indicating that CAG won't ignore those policies in conducting our business on here. We're not getting anything from it, though CAG's size has put it on the map as a site for vendors to watch, as they did with the whole CC PS3 price drop scenario from a couple of years ago. If we have enough people passing payments through Paypal in avoidance of their policies, they could bring it up as an issue. I'm just trying to prevent any possible issue by making sure we stress what people have already agreed in Paypal's UA.

[quote name='Stoic Person Eater']I'm willing to befriend anyone I trade with IRL so that I can send them a gift of money to celebrate "Happy Tuesday" and they can send me a videogame to celebrate "Happy Wednesday - Payment Received".

Kidding aside, I'm probably not going to proceed with the lowball auction I was planning now that other companies UA's are being enforced on the site. It would probably end up costing me money to have a lowball after shipping and the nickel and diming from Paypal.[/QUOTE]There's other options out there besides Paypal. That's been said time and again. Lowball auctions are for clearing out items, not necessarily making a profit on them. There's been plenty of items I've seen go well below their "normal" value, though I don't see many lowball auctions be much in the way of money makers.
 
Wow...

So, if I'm buying something from someone and I want paypal protection, and I want the item to be shipped sooner, the seller has to pay for it? Sounds a little backwards to me.

Really, I think this is a "CYA" move on cheapassgamer.com's count... and a thread for "I told you so" if people use Personal Gift option and get scammed since paypal will not help the buyer out.

/edit/ All of which I understand considering the size of CAG now...
 
[quote name='GraftonWVDiskExchang']First of all, resorting to name-calling is pretty childish. Surely you're more mature than that...?

Secondly, I have no respect for people that turn a blind eye to theft. If you support theft, that states a lot about you as a person.

Not only are you stealing from a company, you're cheating your fellow CAGs by making them pay what YOU should be paying (Paypal fees).

You don't have to worry about you and I trading...I don't trade with crooks [/QUOTE]
You're calling me a crook? You just said resorting to name-calling is pretty childish. You childish hypocrite.

Get off your damn high horse, you don't know anything about me or my Paypal usage. I contribute PLENTY of fees to Paypal through other business I do. Trading on this site RARELY involves me using Paypal, but when I do, I'm not going to have a bunch of high-horse goody two shoes telling me what I can and can't do. I respect shrike for bringing this to light for people who exploit the system, but you're just being a bitch about the whole thing.

LOL @ cheating fellow CAG'er - You're pathetic. Go outside and play in traffic.
 
[quote name='Stoic Person Eater']You're calling me a crook? You just said resorting to name-calling is pretty childish. You childish hypocrite.

Get off your damn high horse, you don't know anything about me or my Paypal usage. I contribute PLENTY of fees to Paypal through other business I do. Trading on this site RARELY involves me using Paypal, but when I do, I'm not going to have a bunch of high-horse goody two shoes telling me what I can and can't do. I respect shrike for bringing this to light for people who exploit the system, but you're just being a bitch about the whole thing.

LOL @ cheating fellow CAG'er - You're pathetic. Go outside and play in traffic.[/QUOTE]

I don't think he was talking to you. ;) He just doesn't know how to use quotes properly. That said, you couldn't be more right. Go away new guy, a jackass is exactly what you're being and a sanctimonious jackass at that. I don't know where someone who's been on the trading forums for like 4 seconds gets the audacity to call traders here, especially honest ones, crooks for merely suggesting that buyers pay fees. You're a sad little man, proprietor (I'm assuming) of the DiskExchange in Grafton, WV and I shall NOT be frequenting your establishment next time my travels take me to Grafton, WV. Which will be never.
 
[quote name='bvharris']I don't think he was talking to you. ;) He just doesn't know how to use quotes properly. That said, you couldn't be more right. Go away new guy, a jackass is exactly what you're being and a sanctimonious jackass at that. I don't know where someone who's been on the trading forums for like 4 seconds gets the audacity to call traders here, especially honest ones, crooks for merely suggesting that buyers pay fees. You're a sad little man, proprietor (I'm assuming) of the DiskExchange in Grafton, WV and I shall NOT be frequenting your establishment next time my travels take me to Grafton, WV. Which will be never.[/QUOTE]
This.
 
[quote name='bvharris']I don't think he was talking to you. ;) He just doesn't know how to use quotes properly. That said, you couldn't be more right. Go away new guy, a jackass is exactly what you're being and a sanctimonious jackass at that. I don't know where someone who's been on the trading forums for like 4 seconds gets the audacity to call traders here, especially honest ones, crooks for merely suggesting that buyers pay fees. You're a sad little man, proprietor (I'm assuming) of the DiskExchange in Grafton, WV and I shall NOT be frequenting your establishment next time my travels take me to Grafton, WV. Which will be never.[/QUOTE]
This x2.
 
[quote name='phdeez']Wow...

So, if I'm buying something from someone and I want paypal protection, and I want the item to be shipped sooner, the seller has to pay for it? Sounds a little backwards to me.[/QUOTE]
Look at it from the opposite view, as a seller. Paypal allows you to sell something to a random person over the internet, where that buyer can pay using a credit card and feel secure that he's getting paypal protection. For that service, they charge a 2.9% fee. As a seller, you don't have to use Paypal, but using it severely increases the number of people you can sell to.

As the seller, if you arrange a trade, you can mail the game to the buyer before getting the money, and then the buyer can legally gift you the money once they get the game. Are you going to do that? No, because it offers you no protection, and you have no guarantee that you're going to get paid. If you want to see the money first, you use paypal, and you pay a fee.

Likewise, ebay will increase the number of people you can sell to, and also charges a higher fee, around 10% between itself and paypal. The item will have to sell for 8% more on ebay, to cover the increased fees.
 
honestly, the way paypal works is borderline criminal...

in an ebay example, if you were to sell a game, you get paid the money but do not have access to that money. the turn around is 17 days, or when you get a positive feedback from the buyer. what this means is that, at any given time, you could expect paypal to be holding onto millions of dollars on a given day that is not theirs. they get interest on money that doesn't belong to them, but since they are the middle man they are not only profiting from their fees, but also from this sizable interest.

you could argue against using paypal entirely, but its become a necessary evil
 
For anyone considering it, I just used Amazon payments successfully. Neither myself nor the buyer was asked at any point to pay a fee, and it was very easy. You can even pay by credit card.
 
[quote name='kurrptsenate']honestly, the way paypal works is borderline criminal...

in an ebay example, if you were to sell a game, you get paid the money but do not have access to that money. the turn around is 17 days, or when you get a positive feedback from the buyer. what this means is that, at any given time, you could expect paypal to be holding onto millions of dollars on a given day that is not theirs. they get interest on money that doesn't belong to them, but since they are the middle man they are not only profiting from their fees, but also from this sizable interest.

you could argue against using paypal entirely, but its become a necessary evil[/QUOTE]They're not the only game in town, as we've been discussing through the thread. See below, as well.

[quote name='bvharris']For anyone considering it, I just used Amazon payments successfully. Neither myself nor the buyer was asked at any point to pay a fee, and it was very easy. You can even pay by credit card.[/QUOTE]Good to hear they didn't charge any fees on either side of the transaction. I need to go over and look at their UA/TOU and see if that's the case for all transactions, or just sending money from person to person.
 
[quote name='kurrptsenate']honestly, the way paypal works is borderline criminal...

in an ebay example, if you were to sell a game, you get paid the money but do not have access to that money. the turn around is 17 days, or when you get a positive feedback from the buyer. what this means is that, at any given time, you could expect paypal to be holding onto millions of dollars on a given day that is not theirs. they get interest on money that doesn't belong to them, but since they are the middle man they are not only profiting from their fees, but also from this sizable interest.

you could argue against using paypal entirely, but its become a necessary evil[/QUOTE]
Exactly, my point. Hence why I don't think it's all that "great".

[quote name='bvharris']For anyone considering it, I just used Amazon payments successfully. Neither myself nor the buyer was asked at any point to pay a fee, and it was very easy. You can even pay by credit card.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the heads up bvharris. I wasn't too familiar with it so I was still unsure about it. But this settles it.
 
[quote name='kurrptsenate']
in an ebay example, if you were to sell a game, you get paid the money but do not have access to that money. the turn around is 17 days, or when you get a positive feedback from the buyer. what this means is that, at any given time, you could expect paypal to be holding onto millions of dollars on a given day that is not theirs. they get interest on money that doesn't belong to them, but since they are the middle man they are not only profiting from their fees, but also from this sizable interest.[/QUOTE]

This only applies to new sellers and rightly so; Paypal is making every effort to protect the buyer from the old "cut and run". I receive Paypal payments all the time and that money is available to me immediately. I can withdraw it or spend it right away as I see fit. Using a provision that only applies to a small set of users and not the majority isn't really a fair argument.

Also, I'd like to see some actual documentation to support the idea that the money that Paypal holds during these transactions is actually gaining them any profit from interest. I'm not saying you're wrong about this, I just don't want to assume that this is what's taking place without having some proof of it.
 
^They are giving me like .004% interest on my Paypal(Premier) balance. They do this to encourage people to leave more money on their accounts so PP can lend it out. I'm too lazy to find proof.

Anyway, eBay/PP wins since we here at CAG have to compete with the lowest eBay prices and if we have to account for fees also, why bother selling on CAG?
 
[quote name='bvharris']For anyone considering it, I just used Amazon payments successfully. Neither myself nor the buyer was asked at any point to pay a fee, and it was very easy. You can even pay by credit card.[/QUOTE]

It was my understanding that you were charged at the end of some cycle, be it each month or some other pre-determined date by Amazon. I don't recall reading that it was an instant charge.

If it's not the case though, then it would be a very nice option to paypal.
 
I understand that people want the choice of whether or not to follow Paypal's policy, but I feel like CAG is doing the right thing in at least not allowing people to skirt the policy publicly. shrike is interested in protecting CAG from scrutiny or even legal intervention from various entities, and that just makes sense. You might not like it, but at least understand that it's ultimately for the greater good, which is the preservation of this forum which we all frequent (for free, no less) and enjoy so much.

I do find it odd that so many people are quick to dispute the policy in the first place. It's something that you agree to abide by when you apply for a Paypal account, and yet people are taking issue with being held to it. Sure, CAG is not owned, supported, or governed by Paypal in any way, but if they're just helping to uphold a policy that each Paypal member agreed to anyway, what's the problem? Heck, CAG also doesn't make the law when it comes to piracy, but they uphold it where they can; this really isn't that different. It's still a legal issue (albeit not necesarily a criminal one), and CAG should be supported for trying reduce undue exposure or intervention from outside sources.

Lastly, If Paypal decided to start charging more for fees than what they've listed, or if they just deducted a few cents from folks' accounts at random, every member would be up in arms, threatening lawsuits and closing accounts. Why are we so accepting of the reverse?
 
Allyourblood, I was trying to say the same thing, albeit in a different way. It didn't come out sounding quite as nice as it did when you stated the same thing though.

Sure, I have only 1 trade feedback so far, but I did join this site to befriend other people and trade games also. Somebody ALWAYS brings up a sore subject, and manages to stir up a hornet's nest in the process. I'm usually that somebody :)

I have a tendency to put words down on paper the wrong way...which irks some people (as was well displayed previously in this thread LOL).

At least I know my writings get noticed and people do think about what I write. They may not agree with what I say, but oh well.

I'm just glad that I'm not the only one that agrees that if a person uses a company's services, that they should pay for them...whether you like the company or not.

I have seen Paypal completely shut off their services to companies/sites that they think aren't enforcing their policies. I would really hate for that to happen to CAG. Sure, people have a "right" to charge what they want to, but others have rights also (such as the right not to pay somebody else's fees), as do companies that have a right to profit from the products that they produce.
 
[quote name='allyourblood']This only applies to new sellers and rightly so; Paypal is making every effort to protect the buyer from the old "cut and run". [/QUOTE]

50 feedback and a member for 4 years, yea, you know what you're talking about :lol:


[quote name='allyourblood']
Also, I'd like to see some actual documentation to support the idea that the money that Paypal holds during these transactions is actually gaining them any profit from interest. I'm not saying you're wrong about this, I just don't want to assume that this is what's taking place without having some proof of it.[/QUOTE]

paypal operates like a bank. if you don't believe this, than you are pretty darn naive


and again, as I said before, it's a necessary evil to deal with this company. honestly though, it's impossible for me to be sympathetic to their "situation"
 
I actually never had a problem with Paypal freezing my funds, but I've heard about this countless of times. Where you either have to wait for the buyer to give you a positive feedback or wait 21 days. Many buyers don't even give feedback after they buy.

And it's quite flawed really, because these people can use the item, wait up to two weeks, and then finally decide they don't "like it" and go into a whole different route and say they want their money back for so and so reasons.

This is rather a bad example, but it's like if I went to Best Buy, bought some iPod and told them, "Look, you know what? I'll take it home, see if I like it, if I do I'll come back and pay." That money isn't YOURS until Paypal releases the funds to you.

From what I've read, as long as you meet certain requirements, such as 100 feedback rating, a higher than 4.8 DSR rating, or etc. Your funds do not get frozen and you can use them.

However, unlike a bank, Paypal is NOT covered by the FDIC. Something happens to the company, I believe you are screwed.
 
[quote name='kurrptsenate']50 feedback and a member for 4 years, yea, you know what you're talking about [/QUOTE]

I don't follow you. I haven't 50 feedback on any site. 39 here on CAG, and 600+ on Ebay (member since '99). Or were you talking about someone else? You have 3 more feedback than me here and joined only a few months later. What's your point?
 
I don't know; I found it confusing. You mentioned "50 feedback" and I wondered to what you were referring. If you're bowing out of the conversation, I guess it doesn't matter either way.
 
[quote name='kurrptsenate']i'm amazed at your inability to follow my previous post

either way, i'm done[/QUOTE]


Nice cover.

Also, before you pull the vet card, you should make certain they aren't in pretty much the same boat as you.
 
I send my money as goods and make the seller eat the fees.

That's what PayPal wants, so that's what I do.

If everyone did this, we wouldn't have this thread with all you complainers fighting back and forth over who's right and who's wrong.

Guess what? It doesn't matter and no one gives a darn.

PayPal is not a right. PayPal has rules to follow, if you do not follow these rules, as any rules set in place, there very well could be consequences. Due to this being a forum, everyone can be affected by one idiot, thus the mods have to do what they can to prevent this. If you do not understand this, I am sorry, there is no other way or easier way to explain it.

But back to my original point, suck it up and then we won't need this crap?

Here's a thought; your bank takes charges out just for hanging onto your money. I think that is far worse than this PayPal stuff. I can easily store my money and have EASIER access to it than at a bank, yet they charge me? At least PayPal is letting me transfer money anywhere in the world instantly.
 
Sigh... this whole thing just shows that corporates really have nothing else to do than going after small stuff.
One day ebay/paypal won't be able to play this monopoly game anymore, b/c some1 is going to step up. Getting really sick and tired of these raising fee crap and the favoring buyers shit they do. But until that day comes, I will try and follow their rule.
 
Whomever you heard all of this information from didn't really do you any favors.

(1) Paypal ONLY freezes your fees when you are a new user or when there is a problem somewhere along the way (such as you not being a 'verified' member). They don't just 'freeze' your funds for no reason. They freeze your funds when you are a new user in order to ensure that the other party (your buyer) actually does receive something in the mail. There used to be a time when people would open up Paypal accounts, sell thousands of dollars of items on Ebay, then never send anything out. By doing what Paypal does now (freeze funds in new accounts until positive feedback is received), they have pretty much put a stop to this. Again, it's not Paypal's fault that people rip other people off. At least they are trying to remedy the situation. You can always remind your buyer to leave you feedback...usually they do.

You don't need 100 positive ratings to have your funds "unfrozen". The DSR rating is something that Ebay uses, not Paypal. Once your buyer leaves positive feedback for you, your funds get unfrozen. Again, this is only valid when you are a new user and have proven yourself to be trustworthy.

You run the risk of a credit card chargeback EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU SELL SOMETHING. If a buyer decides that they don't like the item, they can file a complaint. As I stated previously, this is not Paypal's fault. They're not the ones that initiate refunds to buyers--the buyers do! Paypal is not in the business of selling/auctioning, they're just a payment processing center.

Why people keep blaming Paypal for things that buyers do is beyond my comprehension. Paypal is just a tool for people to send money to one another, they're not the ones that make people do the things that people do. If a buyer is going to screw you over, there's really not much anybody can do about it. If a buyer can't get his money back through Paypal, they WILL do a credit card reversal and they WILL get it--nothing you can do about it.

And finally, Paypal is FDIC-insured. They pass their funds through a bank that is FDIC insured, so, YES, they ARE FDIC-insured. Paypal will NEVER just "close their doors" and walk away with your money.

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/UserAgreement/general/FDIC

All it takes is a little research, folks. You can't always trust what your friends tell you as being the truth. If a person gets burned, of course their judgment is going to get biased.



[quote name='Aenzo']I actually never had a problem with Paypal freezing my funds, but I've heard about this countless of times. Where you either have to wait for the buyer to give you a positive feedback or wait 21 days. Many buyers don't even give feedback after they buy.

And it's quite flawed really, because these people can use the item, wait up to two weeks, and then finally decide they don't "like it" and go into a whole different route and say they want their money back for so and so reasons.

This is rather a bad example, but it's like if I went to Best Buy, bought some iPod and told them, "Look, you know what? I'll take it home, see if I like it, if I do I'll come back and pay." That money isn't YOURS until Paypal releases the funds to you.

From what I've read, as long as you meet certain requirements, such as 100 feedback rating, a higher than 4.8 DSR rating, or etc. Your funds do not get frozen and you can use them.

However, unlike a bank, Paypal is NOT covered by the FDIC. Something happens to the company, I believe you are screwed.[/QUOTE]
 
Well this is interesting. After a two month wait, I finally have $140 available for withdrawal from Bing cashback. They gave me the option of sending it to my PayPal account or through Amazon Payments. I'd like all of my "online funds" in one account but this is pretty tempting.

Being able to use it at Amazon's store is all I want but it looks like a number of merchants also hopped on the bandwagon like Buy and J&R.
 
[quote name='dinobot']Sigh... this whole thing just shows that corporates really have nothing else to do than going after small stuff.
One day ebay/paypal won't be able to play this monopoly game anymore, b/c some1 is going to step up. Getting really sick and tired of these raising fee crap and the favoring buyers *** they do. But until that day comes, I will try and follow their rule.[/QUOTE]

I'm looking forward to somebody else jumping into the fray as well. Amazon Payments is a great alternative that is available now. To push that further, auctions.amazon.com is a domain that will take you to a new login feature (which does not currently accept your existing Amazon information).
 
I've contacted both Paypal and Steam about the gift payment and gifting of games (Steam has a thing about extra copies not being able to be sold).

Paypal
Thank you for contacting PayPal.

Hi, my name is Sonny. I appreciate you sending us an email regarding
your concern and I will be happy to assist you with your questions. Let
me explain this further.

Since the payments are coming from your friends, it is perfectly fine to
receive Personal payments. As long as the sender initiates the Personal
payment, you do not have to worry about your account because there will
be no restrictions.

Thanks for sharing your concerns with us. We value what you have to say.
If you have time, you can learn more about using PayPal by visiting
www.paypal.com/101.

Sincerely,
Sonny
PayPal Consumer Support
PayPal, an eBay Company

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Form Message
customer subject: Does this qualify for use of personal payments?
customer message: Additional Information:
'I play lots of games on Steam and they have these 4-pack deals where you buy a game and it gives you one and 3 others to send to friends. I've been the one doing the up front purchase and they've been using Paypal Personal Payments to send the money they owe me for their part. Is that a use that qualifies for personal payments? I don't want to get my account or theirs locked out for improper use so before we do another one I wanted to get verification.'
Click to expand...

Steam

I finally got a reply back from Steam:

Hello Josh, Thank you for contacting Steam Support. This rule in the subscriber agreement is meant to prevent the abuse of this gifting system (i.e. user purchases a "copy" of left 4 dead from an online auction and instead gets a gift pass). We understand that friends or groups of people often go-in on four packs of subscriptions and will not automatically disable any of your accounts for it. If you have any further questions, please let us know - we will be happy to assist you.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you for taking the time to check with Paypal and Steam, jp0213. Good fact to know that they consider Steam 4-packs to be worthy of Personal payments for "repayment" of the purchaser's copies of the game.

I think gameshares would probably work the same way to Paypal, since it's the same analogy of the up-front purchase of an item and the "repayment" to cover the share of the item, like the "repayment of lunch debt" analogy Paypal themselves use.

[quote name='hero101']Well, this topic seems to discourage lowball sales in my mind.[/QUOTE]Paypal isn't the only payment method around. Other CAGs are starting to try out Amazon Payments and see how it'll work in comparison to Paypal.
 
[quote name='jp0213']I've contacted both Paypal and Steam about the gift payment and gifting of games (Steam has a thing about extra copies not being able to be sold).[/QUOTE]

I don't know anything about Steam so I have no comment on that, but your e-mail to Paypal didn't ever mention your friends sending the money to you as a gift payment, which is what's being questioned here. Don't the other personal payment options (like "payment owed") involve some sort of fee? If not, then ignore the following:

I think the vague wording may have resulted in the response you got, but heck, maybe Paypal really doesn't care (although that would surprise me). Calling the money you receive a "payment" is completely different from receiving a gift.

If Paypal really did sign off on gift payments though, that's great news.
 
I'm pretty sure all personal payments do not have a charge. From their site:

It is free to send a Personal Payment to someone in the United States if you use your bank or balance as the exclusive Payment Method*. All other Personal Payments include a fee as noted below.

Sending or Receiving Money Free
When Payment Method is exclusively:
-PayPal Balance, and/or
-Bank account

2.9% + $0.30 USD
When Payment Method is:
-Credit Card
-Debit Card
-PayPal Credit
-or partially funded by PayPal Balance or Bank account
Either the sender or recipient pays the fee. Not both. The sender decides who pays this fee
 
[quote name='bvharris']I understand where he is coming from though. The heaviest impact of this does fall on people who are having lowball auctions, and since that currently includes me as well I'm not unsympathetic to what he's saying.

In my eyes, as long as I am providing other fee-free means by which a seller can pay for an item (Amazon Payments, Amazon GC, Concealed cash) then it's not unreasonable to ask the buyer to cover the fees if they choose to use paypal as a payment. I am not at all saying I'm going to ignore what shrike is saying, if this is the rule now than of course I am going to follow it.

In the end, I think this is going to cause more trouble than it solves. If there's any group of people who are going to get hot and bothered over who pays seventy five cents, it's CAGs. I don't envy saetia having to deal with people on that, especially since he is a relatively new trader having such a high-volume sale.[/QUOTE]
For lowball seller's just put the cost in the shipping total. Unfortunately, as seller's paypal is a necessary evil. They provide a convenience and as such deserve a fee. The biggest amount of hate for paypal has come about since they were acquired by ebay.

[quote name='GraftonWVDiskExchang']Allyourblood, I was trying to say the same thing, albeit in a different way. It didn't come out sounding quite as nice as it did when you stated the same thing though.

Sure, I have only 1 trade feedback so far, but I did join this site to befriend other people and trade games also. Somebody ALWAYS brings up a sore subject, and manages to stir up a hornet's nest in the process. I'm usually that somebody :)

I have a tendency to put words down on paper the wrong way...which irks some people (as was well displayed previously in this thread LOL).

At least I know my writings get noticed and people do think about what I write. They may not agree with what I say, but oh well.

I'm just glad that I'm not the only one that agrees that if a person uses a company's services, that they should pay for them...whether you like the company or not.

I have seen Paypal completely shut off their services to companies/sites that they think aren't enforcing their policies. I would really hate for that to happen to CAG. Sure, people have a "right" to charge what they want to, but others have rights also (such as the right not to pay somebody else's fees), as do companies that have a right to profit from the products that they produce.[/QUOTE]

Seller's can include this cost in their price. They just can't discount for alternative payments. As buyer's we pay the fees. Some buyer's just don't realize what their payment covers.

[quote name='kurrptsenate']
paypal operates like a bank. if you don't believe this, than you are pretty darn naive[/QUOTE]
Exactly!

[quote name='kurrptsenate']
and again, as I said before, it's a necessary evil to deal with this company. honestly though, it's impossible for me to be sympathetic to their "situation"[/QUOTE]
Yea, their seller's protection pretty much sucks if the stories you read are true. Their buyer's protection is pretty damn good, really good for scammers!


Just realized a no fee method to move funds, Considering the demographics of this site it is probably safe to say many play online poker. If so you can send funds to other members on many of the sites. Just something to consider for those looking at alternatives.
 
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[quote name='rmb']Seller's can include this cost in their price. They just can't discount for alternative payments. As buyer's we pay the fees. Some buyer's just don't realize what their payment covers.[/QUOTE]
Actually I think specifically we're not supposed to do this. That's what most would call a surcharge. I like the idea of just bumping up the shipping price a dollar or two to help cover the fees (of course that means non-Paypal payers get burned too though).
 
I'm just asking - doesn't the wording in the PP UA suggest that asking the buyer to pay the PP fees is acceptable? I read it as though you cannot force them to pay the fees, which is obviously the case here. I don't take that to mean that I can't ask/request that the buyer pays, though. I just have to hope that they actually will.

Yes? No?
 
[quote name='PlayableMoogle']I'm just asking - doesn't the wording in the PP UA suggest that asking the buyer to pay the PP fees is acceptable? I read it as though you cannot force them to pay the fees, which is obviously the case here. I don't take that to mean that I can't ask/request that the buyer pays, though. I just have to hope that they actually will.

Yes? No?[/QUOTE]

no, it is the other way around.
you're NOT allowed to charge the buyer a fee for using paypal.
 
[quote name='PlayableMoogle']I'm just asking - doesn't the wording in the PP UA suggest that asking the buyer to pay the PP fees is acceptable? I read it as though you cannot force them to pay the fees, which is obviously the case here. I don't take that to mean that I can't ask/request that the buyer pays, though. I just have to hope that they actually will.

Yes? No?[/QUOTE]

Just charge accordingly for your games. Say you are looking over your games and decide you want to get a net sum of $20 for one, $30 for another, and $40 for the third game, for a total of $90. When you go to list the actual games, add up any fees and shipping charges that there will be, add that to what you want your net sum to be, and you have the price you will charge for your game. So you would actually charge ~$25 for the first one, ~$35 for the second one, and ~$45 for the third one if you are selling here, since the only fees are paypal and shipping. Obviously, you can also offer a discount for when people buy multiple items, since you will not have to pay full price for shipping 2 items in the same package.
 
[quote name='wbc1228']no, it is the other way around.
you're NOT allowed to charge the buyer a fee for using paypal.[/QUOTE]

No, I understand the gist of what it is saying.

I'm just saying that the way it is worded sounds like you just can't REQUIRE them to pay. You could still ask.
 
[quote name='Ryukahn']Just charge accordingly for your games. Say you are looking over your games and decide you want to get a net sum of $20 for one, $30 for another, and $40 for the third game, for a total of $90. When you go to list the actual games, add up any fees and shipping charges that there will be, add that to what you want your net sum to be, and you have the price you will charge for your game. So you would actually charge ~$25 for the first one, ~$35 for the second one, and ~$45 for the third one if you are selling here, since the only fees are paypal and shipping. Obviously, you can also offer a discount for when people buy multiple items, since you will not have to pay full price for shipping 2 items in the same package.[/QUOTE]

This obviously makes much sense, and is the least abrasive workaround, I guess. :)

I just want to try and circumvent their shoddy language.
 
[quote name='PlayableMoogle']No, I understand the gist of what it is saying.

I'm just saying that the way it is worded sounds like you just can't REQUIRE them to pay. You could still ask.[/QUOTE]

Paypal's position on this issue is crystal clear.

"You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment."
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/terms-outside#receiving_payments

What part of that sentence do you not understand?
The NOT part?
 
[quote name='wbc1228']Paypal's position on this issue is crystal clear.

"You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment."
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/terms-outside#receiving_payments

What part of that sentence do you not understand?
The NOT part?[/QUOTE]
Are you saying that as a seller, he shouldn't be able to set his pricing to whatever he wants? If he sells a game for $20, who's to say he is not really only charging $18 for the game, but $2 to cover fees? Will you be able to understand his intentions? No, stop acting like it.

Most of us are competent enough to automatically include any fees or shipping or packaging costs; along with our perceived value of the item when selling on here. Economics 101 or Common Sense 101, either way, most of us have taken the course.

Get off your high horses and post somewhere else. You can't control anyone else but yourself, stop trying to by posting in a forum.

Boom.
 
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