Amazon's warehouse/sweatshop.

cindersphere

cindersphere

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http://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-allentown-amazon-complaints-20110917,0,7937001,full.story


Workers said they were forced to endure brutal heat inside the sprawling warehouse and were pushed to work at a pace many could not sustain. Employees were frequently reprimanded regarding their productivity and threatened with termination, workers said. The consequences of not meeting work expectations were regularly on display, as employees lost their jobs and got escorted out of the warehouse. Such sights encouraged some workers to conceal pain and push through injury lest they get fired as well, workers said.
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Goris, the Allentown resident who worked as a permanent Amazon employee, said high temperatures were handled differently at other warehouses in which he worked. For instance, loading dock doors on opposite sides of those warehouses were left open to let fresh air circulate and reduce the temperature when it got too hot, he said. When Amazon workers asked in meetings why this wasn't done at the Amazon warehouse, managers said the company was worried about theft, Goris said.

"Imagine if it's 98 degrees outside and you're in a warehouse with every single dock door closed," Goris said.

Computers monitored the heat index in the building and Amazon employees received notification about the heat index by email. Goris said one day the heat index, a measure that considers humidity, exceeded 110 degrees on the third floor.

"I remember going up there to check the location of an item," Goris said. "I lasted two minutes, because I could not breathe up there."
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On July 21, Forney called OSHA to report that the heat index in the warehouse ranged between 108 and 112 degrees. Amazon initiated voluntary time off, allowing employees to go home if they wished and ice cream was available. On July 22, Forney told OSHA that Amazon again instituted voluntary time off and most workers left. They didn't have enough people to run the warehouse, so they may shut down until the temperature drops, Forney told OSHA.

On July 25, a security guard at the Amazon warehouse called OSHA and said the temperature exceeded 110 degrees. The guard reported seeing two pregnant women taken to nurses and that Amazon would not open garage doors to help air circulation.
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Just wondering what everyone's thoughts on this were? Is this acceptable and will this change your buying habits at all?
 
If only there was a way for workers to get together and demand that management make changes.

Maybe cynicism has gotten to me but I'm in a mood to tell blue collar America to go fuck itself. You've spent the last two decades supporting these assholes and their full frontal assault on workers' rights and regulations. Enjoy the freedom to work in a sweat shop you fucking ingrates.
 
[quote name='PohTayToez']I think the fact that they gave them ice cream makes it all better.[/QUOTE]

For the amount of money it cost to provide ice cream, Amazon could have easily had custom screens fabbed for the doors.
 
[quote name='speedracer']If only there was a way for workers to get together and demand that management make changes.

Maybe cynicism has gotten to me but I'm in a mood to tell blue collar America to go fuck itself. You've spent the last two decades supporting these assholes and their full frontal assault on workers' rights and regulations. Enjoy the freedom to work in a sweat shop you fucking ingrates.[/QUOTE]

It does seem that 'the people' are determined to learn things the hard way.
 
[quote name='cindersphere']Just wondering what everyone's thoughts on this were? Is this acceptable and will this change your buying habits at all?[/QUOTE]

I just wonder if any of the anti-Walmart people will now be anti-Amazon...
 
Definitely sucks. I've done some hot warehouse and saw mill work in the past, so I can sympathize with them. But at the same time that's why you got to do something with your life so you don't get stuck in those kind of shit ass jobs.

It won't change my buying habits right away, but it does lessen Amazon's esteem in my eyes some. But I never hold companies--even one's a shop at regularly like Amazon--in much esteem. They're big corporations and care about nothing making as much money as they can, and I care about little but giving them as little of my money as I can to get the products I want.

As for Wal-mart, I don't hate Wal-mart for their business practices so much as I hate them for all the awful shopping experiences I had over the years before I said the hell with them and stopped shopping their at all several years back.

I'm not really one of those social justice types like dohdough or other liberals on here. When it comes to things like shopping it's all about me. What gives me the best combination of convenience/decent shopping experience and price? Those are the places that get my business.
 
Change people's buying habits? Nope. Like anyone stopped buying Iphones/Ipads when Chinese people commited suicide at the factory due to working conditions.
 
Most likely the decision to keep doors shut and such comes from some middle management dickhead on a power trip and isn't an official Amazon Corporate decision. Things like this happen all the time. But instead of placing the blame where it belongs it's a lot more fun to blame it on vindictive corporate overlords who are masturbating to pictures of dead babies with a stock ticker rolling along the bottom.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']Do you really think Jeff Bezos wakes up and says "Kepp the doors closed in that hot warehouse so the employees work faster and harder."[/QUOTE]

Why do people always want to leap to the defense of CEOs in the face of labor law (and borderline human rights) violations? We have a very disturbing celebrity CEO culture.
 
There have actually been rumors about these types of conditions for years. I guarantee that Amazon isn't the only company in warehouse distribution that has labor violations like these. Unfortunately, stories about Amazon are so sparse that it's difficult to tell if it's a company-wide problem, but one thing's for certain: this is an industry-wide problem. Amazon promotes itself as being labor friendly and this is a pretty aggregious case. Personally, I'd like to hear some stories about Buy and Newegg.

As for Walmart, I don't shop there for how it treats it's labor and it's labor sentiment has been institutional since it's founding. I also don't shop at Whole Foods because the CEO is a huge libertarian and thinks that a $2000(night be higher, I forget...no that it really matters) healthcare deductible is a good policy for someone that makes $10 an hour, while also using prison labor to handle their seafood prep. Another thing I've stopped purchasing are tomatoes grown in the US because there's a high chance(33%) that they were picked using literal slave labor, like in the 1800's, to be picked. That said, I will be using my remaining credit with Amazon and then calling it a day with them. It's been a nice long relationship, but you gotta treat your workers right.

[quote name='dmaul1114']Definitely sucks. I've done some hot warehouse and saw mill work in the past, so I can sympathize with them. But at the same time that's why you got to do something with your life so you don't get stuck in those kind of shit ass jobs.[/quote]
These shit jobs will always be necessary. The least we can do is to ensure that they're made as bareable as possible with pay, benefits, and environment.

It won't change my buying habits right away, but it does lessen Amazon's esteem in my eyes some. But I never hold companies--even one's a shop at regularly like Amazon--in much esteem. They're big corporations and care about nothing making as much money as they can, and I care about little but giving them as little of my money as I can to get the products I want.
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Totally hear you on this one, but as a CAG, I'm sure you've also noticed that prices and deals aren't as good as they used to be. Unless you're just stopping at a local Gamestop or BestBuy to get your gaming fix. Being a CAG myself, I've been spending more time and money locally as b&m deals are getting better.

As for Wal-mart, I don't hate Wal-mart for their business practices so much as I hate them for all the awful shopping experiences I had over the years before I said the hell with them and stopped shopping their at all several years back.

I'm not really one of those social justice types like dohdough or other liberals on here. When it comes to things like shopping it's all about me. What gives me the best combination of convenience/decent shopping experience and price? Those are the places that get my business.
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Thanks for mentioning me! I'm unironically pleased that I'm seen as big on social justice.:lol:

SOLIDARITY bro. Having done those shit jobs, you should find some. An attack on them is an attack against us all. If bob, or any one of our crazy rightwing brothers/sisters had to strike, I'd stand right along with them despite how reprehensible I find most of their views. Being an academic, you should know how systems interact with eachother. Dissonance is not a good quality, my friend.;)
 
[quote name='nasum']Most likely the decision to keep doors shut and such comes from some middle management dickhead on a power trip and isn't an official Amazon Corporate decision. Things like this happen all the time. But instead of placing the blame where it belongs it's a lot more fun to blame it on vindictive corporate overlords who are masturbating to pictures of dead babies with a stock ticker rolling along the bottom.[/QUOTE]

At my job, being in charge means that you are held accountable for the actions of those working for you. What ever happened to responsibility, I swear the only way to get the executive class to temporarily act like decent human beings is a goddamn lawsuit. And a worker has to be horribly injured or killed before folks wake up to the fact that there is a serious problem.
 
[quote name='camoor']Why do people always want to leap to the defense of CEOs in the face of labor law (and borderline human rights) violations? We have a very disturbing celebrity CEO culture.[/QUOTE]

I'm not leaping to his defense.
I just figure he doesnt know or doesnt give a shit about what's going on down there.

Figured I should say something before people start calling for his resignation or calling him an inhumane monster, etc.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']I'm not leaping to his defense.
I just figure he doesnt know or doesnt give a shit about what's going on down there.

Figured I should say something before people start calling for his resignation or calling him an inhumane monster, etc.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that he actually DOES have an idea that shit like this goes on, but doesn't care to know for sure. Plausible deniability. You don't get to be CEO by not knowing what of shit goes down in your company/industry.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']I'm not leaping to his defense.
I just figure he doesnt know or doesnt give a shit about what's going on down there.

Figured I should say something before people start calling for his resignation or calling him an inhumane monster, etc.[/QUOTE]

Inhumane - Without compassion for misery or suffering; cruel

I'll wait to see what happens, but Jeff Bezos is probably inhumane. I've seen no action that demonstrates that he has any compassion for these workers, I think you're probably right that he "doesnt give a shit about what's going on down there"

Assuming that's true, Jeff is the very definition of inhumane.
 
[quote name='dohdough']
Totally hear you on this one, but as a CAG, I'm sure you've also noticed that prices and deals aren't as good as they used to be. Unless you're just stopping at a local Gamestop or BestBuy to get your gaming fix. Being a CAG myself, I've been spending more time and money locally as b&m deals are getting better.
[/QUOTE]

Haven't noticed it at all. Still tons of great sales on Amazon, lots of preorders with $20 credits for future game orders with preorder (like with Gears 3) etc.

I hate shopping locally though, so I'd keep ordering games and movies etc. online even if it cost a few bucks more. I'm not a true CAG in that sense as I care more about convenience than saving a few bucks. :D
 
[quote name='dohdough']These shit jobs will always be necessary. The least we can do is to ensure that they're made as bareable as possible with pay, benefits, and environment.[/QUOTE]

This right here captures the essence of liberalism in a nutshell.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']Change people's buying habits? Nope. Like anyone stopped buying Iphones/Ipads when Chinese people commited suicide at the factory due to working conditions.
[/QUOTE]

You'd think there'd be an app for that by now.
 
Amazon air conditions centers after criticism

Amazon.com Inc. AMZN +0.39% said it spent $2.4 million to install industrial air conditioning units in four of its distribution centers following a media report last week detailing sweltering conditions in a Pennsylvania warehouse.

The Allentown Call reported that current and former warehouse workers said temperatures soared in the facility on hot summer days, sometimes rising above 100 degrees during heat waves.

The Internet retailer said the air conditioners were online in late July and early August and noted air conditioning remains an unusual practice in warehouses.

The company also defended its practice of using temporary workers, which it says helps it manage seasonal demand and screen for good workers. The company said the Breinigsville, Pa., operation has 1,381 full-time employees and that 850 temporary employees there has been moved to full time since January.
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...
 
Bravo to Amazon on that. Sucks that the conditions were bad before, but at least the stepped up and fixed the problem quickly.

And I don't see a problem with temporary workers for a retail company. They're always going to need more employees around the holidays. That's no different than retail stores hiring seasonal employees for Oct/Nov through January.
 
Hey, all my stuff gets routed to the Allentown warehouse before it comes to me!! It's like an hour and a half away from me! Awesome! I know there's an OSHA office in Allentown, so they should be able to be over there right quick.
 
[quote name='dohdough']The problem is that he actually DOES have an idea that shit like this goes on, but doesn't care to know for sure. Plausible deniability. You don't get to be CEO by not knowing what of shit goes down in your company/industry.[/QUOTE]

Plausible Deniability? You guys must be on crack.

I have worked at plenty of places in which the district manager of any type had no idea what was going on. Let alone the god damn CEO. Give me a break.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Plausible Deniability? You guys must be on crack.

I have worked at plenty of places in which the district manager of any type had no idea what was going on. Let alone the god damn CEO. Give me a break.[/QUOTE]
So your comfortable with incompetent management?
 
dohdough what about Organic Tomatoes?! Even then?

See if I have a choice most of my food will be bought grown from here for the simple infantization factor. Some exceptions are food that's truly not grown here(Farro, Einkorn) and we likely don't have those conditions for the most part(pineapples, lychee, coconuts, Quinoa, etc.) I hope you're not foolish enough to overlook it.
 
[quote name='cindersphere']So your comfortable with incompetent management?[/QUOTE]

No I am not comfortable with incompetent management, but I believe incompetent management can be just that - incompetent management, not some vast corporate conspiracy to keep the working man down.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Plausible Deniability? You guys must be on crack.

I have worked at plenty of places in which the district manager of any type had no idea what was going on. Let alone the god damn CEO. Give me a break.[/QUOTE]
Do you think the CEO's of Nike, Sony, and Apple don't know that they use sweatshops?

[quote name='Sarang01']dohdough what about Organic Tomatoes?! Even then?

See if I have a choice most of my food will be bought grown from here for the simple infantization factor. Some exceptions are food that's truly not grown here(Farro, Einkorn) and we likely don't have those conditions for the most part(pineapples, lychee, coconuts, Quinoa, etc.) I hope you're not foolish enough to overlook it.[/QUOTE]
Ummm...I think infantization isn't the word you're looking for. Also, a lot of those fruits CAN be grown in the US, but agricultural corporations aren't in the business of producing for the public good, if you know what I mean. Not to mention that organic has become a marketing term and that local co-ops and farmshares are probably much better than imports and stuff bought at places like Trader Joe's and especially Whole Foods.

Organic tomatoes get that label by the way they're grown, not picked. Better for you doesn't mean better for someone else.
 
[quote name='Knoell']No I am not comfortable with incompetent management, but I believe incompetent management can be just that - incompetent management, not some vast corporate conspiracy to keep the working man down.[/QUOTE]

Noone alleged that this particular issue is part of a "vast corporate conspiracy", it's just the kind of faulty logic that a cheap amoral manager would use in an attempt to boost profits short-term.

But don't listen to me - by all means keep working for shitty managers in dead-end jobs.
 
I think both sides here are right. There is certainly plausible deniability with things like sweat shops as CEOs are going to be aware of things like that as they have to make decisions about outsourcing and so on.

But with huge corporations it's silly to expect execs to know everything that's going on in every location in the organization. No way a CEO can know what working conditions are in every store, warehouse etc. It doesn't have to be incompetent management from the top. With huge organizations issues at individual locations would be incompetent lower level management.

Especially for something like a warehouse lacking A/C. As the article notes, heating and cooling in warehouses is very unusual. It makes almost no sense from an energy efficiency standpoint as busy warehouses are going to have big loading dock doors open all the time as trucks are being loaded and unloaded. It's a job you don't take if you can't stand being hot as fuck in the summer and cold in the winter.

In any case, Amazon took care of it quickly and installed A/C. So it seems like this is a non-story now as the corporation did the right thing for once.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']In any case, Amazon took care of it quickly and installed A/C. So it seems like this is a non-story now as the corporation did the right thing for once.[/QUOTE]

...after nationwide media attention was given to the issue.

At that point, the tab for this expense shifted into the "Public Relations" column. :D
 
[quote name='UncleBob']...after nationwide media attention was given to the issue.

At that point, the tab for this expense shifted into the "Public Relations" column. :D[/QUOTE]
Hard to argue with this.
 
For sure. But it was taken care of, so who gives a shit about the motivation.

Plenty of other companies have sweat shops etc. exposed and just ignore it and go right on making millions.

At least Amazon cares about their image enough to spend the money to solve the problem even if PR is the motivation. Same reason their customer service is so good--they want that positive PR and keeping customers and potential customers happy.

As long as a company does things that are good for the works and/or customers, I couldn't care less if the reason behind it was PR.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Do you think the CEO's of Nike, Sony, and Apple don't know that they use sweatshops?


Ummm...I think infantization isn't the word you're looking for. Also, a lot of those fruits CAN be grown in the US, but agricultural corporations aren't in the business of producing for the public good, if you know what I mean. Not to mention that organic has become a marketing term and that local co-ops and farmshares are probably much better than imports and stuff bought at places like Trader Joe's and especially Whole Foods.

Organic tomatoes get that label by the way they're grown, not picked. Better for you doesn't mean better for someone else.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say it did but I'd rather buy something grown here then outside the U.S. By infantization I'm referring to the total deconstruction of the food supply, not growing anything here and importing all the food. This is part of it, all this Organic being grown overseas.

I am part of an Organic CSA.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Do you think the CEO's of Nike, Sony, and Apple don't know that they use sweatshops?

[/QUOTE]

Are you really comparing this to those sweatshops? Get a clue.

[quote name='camoor']Noone alleged that this particular issue is part of a "vast corporate conspiracy", it's just the kind of faulty logic that a cheap amoral manager would use in an attempt to boost profits short-term.

But don't listen to me - by all means keep working for shitty managers in dead-end jobs.[/QUOTE]

Dohdough is alleging exactly that. That the CEO of Amazon knew that people in these warehouses were working in 110 degree temperatures and said screw it, as long as I don't acknowledge it, I won't be responsible for it. Did Amazon do something wrong? Yes. Should the CEO be aware of such things going on? Yes. Is the CEO trying to "sweat" any kind of resolve out of their workers? Probably not.

Everyone has seen issues in prior workplaces but by all means assume you know anything about my current job, and how well my managers perform. It doesn't make you out to be a douchebag or anything. Actually it does. Sorry.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']For sure. But it was taken care of, so who gives a shit about the motivation.

Plenty of other companies have sweat shops etc. exposed and just ignore it and go right on making millions.

At least Amazon cares about their image enough to spend the money to solve the problem even if PR is the motivation. Same reason their customer service is so good--they want that positive PR and keeping customers and potential customers happy.

As long as a company does things that are good for the works and/or customers, I couldn't care less if the reason behind it was PR.[/QUOTE]
No doubt. I'm actually glad the exposure pressured them into improving work conditions. I just wish other companies would follow suit.

[quote name='Sarang01']I didn't say it did but I'd rather buy something grown here then outside the U.S. By infantization I'm referring to the total deconstruction of the food supply, not growing anything here and importing all the food. This is part of it, all this Organic being grown overseas.

I am part of an Organic CSA.[/QUOTE]
LOLZ...what? Aren't those a little too socialist for you?

Regardless of your politics, this is actually a very good model for consumption and contributing to local economies. Credit where credit is due.

[quote name='Knoell']Are you really comparing this to those sweatshops? Get a clue.[/quote]
When a warehouse has several ambulances on-call to take more than a handful of workers to the local hospital EVERY DAY, then yes. This is the classic example of a sweatshop. Just because they don't work piece-meal doesn't mean that there aren't ways around it.

Dohdough is alleging exactly that. That the CEO of Amazon knew that people in these warehouses were working in 110 degree temperatures and said screw it, as long as I don't acknowledge it, I won't be responsible for it.
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This is funny because I never said anything close to that. I mean fuck, it's only on the previous page of this thread. But hey, I actually have some scruples from being an outright dishonest asshole, unlike you.

Everyone has seen issues in prior workplaces but by all means assume you know anything about my current job, and how well my managers perform. It doesn't make you out to be a douchebag or anything. Actually it does. Sorry.
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LOLZ...you wouldn't know a douchebag if you saw one in the mirror.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Sorry I meant a share of an Organic CSA.[/QUOTE]
I know...I'm just pulling your chain for supporting communism.:lol:
 
[quote name='dohdough']I know...I'm just pulling your chain for supporting communism.:lol:[/QUOTE]

I have a share in a co-op too. If I can help a farmer make an actual living wage by buying a share of an Organic CSA, fuck yeah I'll do it. Plus the savings are excellent. Why shouldn't I cut out the middle man when a lot of grocery stores hose the farmer in the prices they pay them for their produce?

As for my co-op the prices on some of the things at times are great and make Whole Foods deals suck dick by comparison. How often do you see Rudy's Bread at $3 at Whole Foods? Very rarely while I see it in the Co-Op deals every couple of months. If you tell me the state you're at Dohdough I'll even tell you if you have one of these great deals going on around you.
edit: Let me add I've always been for employees making a living wage and they can have their piece of a company. I believe in the 30-30-40 model. The CEO controls 40% of the stock, the employees 30% and the shareholders 30%. If the employees wish they can buy majority share that way. I would put caveats like they couldn't put an innovation in that would be bound to put one of their fellow employees out of a job.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']I didn't say it did but I'd rather buy something grown here then outside the U.S. By infantization I'm referring to the total deconstruction of the food supply, not growing anything here and importing all the food. This is part of it, all this Organic being grown overseas.

I am part of an Organic CSA.[/QUOTE]

That's pretty awesome. I'm definately going to do that when my life settles down.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']I have a share in a co-op too. If I can help a farmer make an actual living wage by buying a share of an Organic CSA, fuck yeah I'll do it. Plus the savings are excellent. Why shouldn't I cut out the middle man when a lot of grocery stores hose the farmer in the prices they pay them for their produce?

As for my co-op the prices on some of the things at times are great and make Whole Foods deals suck dick by comparison. How often do you see Rudy's Bread at $3 at Whole Foods? Very rarely while I see it in the Co-Op deals every couple of months. If you tell me the state you're at Dohdough I'll even tell you if you have one of these great deals going on around you.
edit: Let me add I've always been for employees making a living wage and they can have their piece of a company. I believe in the 30-30-40 model. The CEO controls 40% of the stock, the employees 30% and the shareholders 30%. If the employees wish they can buy majority share that way. I would put caveats like they couldn't put an innovation in that would be bound to put one of their fellow employees out of a job.[/QUOTE]
We've actually been looking into a couple shares locally and are considering one that does meat and poultry as well. Luckily, they also do deliveries. Just need to pull the trigger on one. Thanks for the offer though.
 
[quote name='dohdough']No doubt. I'm actually glad the exposure pressured them into improving work conditions. I just wish other companies would follow suit.


LOLZ...what? Aren't those a little too socialist for you?

Regardless of your politics, this is actually a very good model for consumption and contributing to local economies. Credit where credit is due.


When a warehouse has several ambulances on-call to take more than a handful of workers to the local hospital EVERY DAY, then yes. This is the classic example of a sweatshop. Just because they don't work piece-meal doesn't mean that there aren't ways around it.


This is funny because I never said anything close to that. I mean fuck, it's only on the previous page of this thread. But hey, I actually have some scruples from being an outright dishonest asshole, unlike you.


LOLZ...you wouldn't know a douchebag if you saw one in the mirror.[/QUOTE]

1. You are an outright dishonest asshole.
2. I see douchebag in my signature each and every day.
3. You were making the argument that the CEO knows of such conditions, and doesn't care to change them. You compare it to sweatshops in foreign countries in which companies pay next to nothing, and make people work excessive amounts of time in unsafe conditions. When you put those two together, one can kind of take from it that you believe that this isn't a case of bad management but a corporation dead set on increasing profits but decreasing employee conditions and pay.

4. If 3. isnt true and honest, then I think we can both agree on my original statement that this is a case of poor management and not Amazon targeting employee working conditions for the sake of profit.
 
[quote name='Knoell']No I am not comfortable with incompetent management, but I believe incompetent management can be just that - incompetent management, not some vast corporate conspiracy to keep the working man down.[/QUOTE]

So you don't believe in corporate cultures can be a conspiracy?
 
[quote name='Knoell']3. You were making the argument that the CEO knows of such conditions, and doesn't care to change them. You compare it to sweatshops in foreign countries in which companies pay next to nothing, and make people work excessive amounts of time in unsafe conditions. When you put those two together, one can kind of take from it that you believe that this isn't a case of bad management but a corporation dead set on increasing profits but decreasing employee conditions and pay.[/QUOTE]

Of course. Duh.

How many mines have to collapse, how many oil rigs have to blow up, how many people have to die before you start to get it?
 
[quote name='Knoell']1. You are an outright dishonest asshole.
2. I see douchebag in my signature each and every day.
3. You were making the argument that the CEO knows of such conditions, and doesn't care to change them. You compare it to sweatshops in foreign countries in which companies pay next to nothing, and make people work excessive amounts of time in unsafe conditions. When you put those two together, one can kind of take from it that you believe that this isn't a case of bad management but a corporation dead set on increasing profits but decreasing employee conditions and pay.

4. If 3. isnt true and honest, then I think we can both agree on my original statement that this is a case of poor management and not Amazon targeting employee working conditions for the sake of profit.[/QUOTE]
1. Like usual, you provide no proof.
2. Says the person that quotes out of context and can't be bothered to to go back ONE PAGE to fact check.:roll:
3. In cases of gross neglect, it's usually both. Don't blame me because your lone brain cell is so twisted up that you can't connect the dots.
4. See #3.
 
So now that we've got inefficient air conditioners in an area of mostly open vertical space, when do we start complaining about the negative environmental impact of it all?
 
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