Bioshock 2 - General Discussion & Info (Game now released!)

[quote name='mykevermin']It wasn't entirely the content of the story, really. In part it was - the game felt like a phony attempt at "video game bipartisanship" in the sense that the entire story of Rapture was one of a quasi-Randian Objectivist dystopia - and in this game the cram in a story about the failures of a quasi-Communist in Elanor Lamb. That just seemed to tacked on to me.

But it could have worked well, again, it isn't just the content. Aesthetically the game felt like "Bioshock: Map Level Pack," and that contributed to the convoluted stories linking 1 and 2. Is this truly a failed Communist approach? Hard to tell, since Rapture looks like the same ruined city it was before.

The worst of the game's unforgivable SP sins, thought, came in the form of the final level. Should I spoiler this? Oh, I guess so:

I was stunned when the game ended. I can't remember the last time I finished a game and thought to myself "no way dude, there's gotta be 2-3 more levels! the story's not over! I didn't even fight a boss; WTF?" The problem is that good storytelling involves letting the reader/player know that the end of the arc is coming. I didn't get that feeling at all. I genuinely expected 2 or 3 more levels, a boss fight, some confrontation with Lamb, something. The way the game ended, it felt like more it just stopped than ended, if you can appreciate the distinction.

But the gameplay is indeed good (drill dash FTW!), so maybe I'll get more enjoyment in MP.[/QUOTE]

Bioshock 1 had the boss problem too. It was a total push over. I would have liked to face a boss, but I'm not sure what they could have done. Have Lamb go apeshit on Adam? They already did that in BS1. I enjoyed the ending better than the first game's. At least it was an actually ending, unlike
a bunch of Little Sisters laying around your bed.
. I wouldn't call it unforgivable though. I liked how
Delta was on his last leg, and desperately trying to escape with his "daughter". I did get the feeling that I was nearing the end. Lamb became more desperate, and Eleanor was getting weaker.
The story was good, but not as great as Bioshock 1.
I don't feel the Lamb angle was tacked on. I think it was a good opposite to Ryan, but ultimately the same ending. Power corrupts, etc.

I'll agree with you on the linking the two stories. If Lamb was so important (and an "equal" to Ryan), why was there zero mention of her in the first game? Not even a hint? It's sort of like Metal Gear Solid in that sense. I'm still confused as to the timeline and what the hell exactly happened.

Still, I did love the SP and exploring
the laboratories and such where the experiments took place, as well as learning more about the Big Daddies. I thought the choice of either saving or killing the 3 side characters was a nice touch too, as well Sinclair not turning out to be a dickwad Atlas style. I can't remember if Bioshock 1 had something similar.
 
The SP in this game IMO is just awesome , yea it just ended so what!!! You knew the end was about to happen , you don't necessarily need a boss fight at the end of every game. The reason why Sofia Lamb & her daughter wasn't mentioned in the 1st game was due to the fact that BS1 took place in the newest part of Rapture. BS2 takes place in the 'ghetto' part of Rapture , yea its more run down cuz it was built 1st . . so with that being said theres prob other parts of Rapture not yet explored??? Also think what if Ryan wasn't the only one to build a 'Rapture' hell there might be other underwater cities like it , people who tried to 1up Ryan. All in all this is turning out to be an awesome franchise . . . I just hope they keep it up:applause:
 
[quote name='ChibiJosh']I think Sophia Lamb was Ryan's prisoner during the events of Bioshock which is why we didn't hear about her.[/QUOTE]

This is correct... she was
in jail before Bioshock 1. And as a challenger to Ryan's throne and his ideology, I am sure anything to do with her was swept under the rug. It wasn't until after Bioshock 1 or perhaps during "the fall" that she escaped and started to control what was left of Rapture.

In other news, went from level 24 to level 30 today in a very successful MP day. Sorry, Sinistar. I missed your request until I was pretty much done, we have to set it up soon though! :D
 
[quote name='ninjalunchbox79']The SP in this game IMO is just awesome , yea it just ended so what!!! You knew the end was about to happen.[/QUOTE]

Woah. Stop right there. If you bothered to read the words I typed out above, you'll see that my very point was that I did not see the end forthcoming. The level ended and the credits rolled. If Spike Lee produced the game I'd expect that kind of ending. But I don't think he was involved with this project.

There are good moments (this is in terms of other posters' reactions, not your other stream-of-consciousness tripe) in the story indeed. I did appreciate the opportunity to decide the fate of so many characters - and using folks who just showed up for a moment in the first title via Accu-vox recordings helped accentuate the link between the two games (I guess, as if it really needed it - alternately, you might get the feeling that the population of Rapture was like 47). Additionally, you get to decide between "virtuous" or "vengeful" options, so to speak. Killing them wasn't always the "evil" way to do things, and the same can be said of letting them live. That was some very good complexity.

So, yes, absolutely, the smaller chapter narratives in the game were very good - truth be told, those shorter story arcs were far better than the overall arc w/ Sophia Lamb. I stand by my comments that the metastory was unpolished, but will concede that the per-chapter stories very good.

The game still stopped and didn't really end. Yeah, whatever, there was a denouement, but no climax whatsoever.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The game still stopped and didn't really end. Yeah, whatever, there was a denouement, but no climax whatsoever.[/QUOTE]

I personally found the final battle all over the level to be pretty fulfilling and climatic. Much more fulfilling compared to the end of Bioshock 1. But that is just me. I hated the boss battle in 1.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Woah. Stop right there. If you bothered to read the words I typed out above, you'll see that my very point was that I did not see the end forthcoming. [/QUOTE]
Given that
you were attempting to lauch an escape pod, I think the end's coming was somewhat flamboyant. I mean, there could've possibly been a boss fight on the escape pod, but I can't see how you could have thought there would be multiple levels left.
But, that's me.
 
I think that's a valid point indeed, hindsight being 20/20.

given all the traps set up to that point, it could have (a) led elsewhere in Rapture, (b) been a setup by Lamb, or (c) some other horribly contrived suggestion.

But that's enough of me and my soapbox. I'm standing by my story, and if y'all really liked the SP, more power to you. You feel like your money was better spent than I do, that's for certain.
 
[quote name='ninjalunchbox79']The reason why Sofia Lamb & her daughter wasn't mentioned in the 1st game was due to the fact that BS1 took place in the newest part of Rapture. BS2 takes place in the 'ghetto' part of Rapture , yea its more run down cuz it was built 1st [/QUOTE]

Thanks for the clarification. This makes things make more sense.

[quote name='Saint Noir']This is correct... she was
in jail before Bioshock 1. And as a challenger to Ryan's thrown and his ideology, I am sure anything to do with her was swept under the rug. It wasn't until after Bioshock 1 or perhaps during "the fall" that she escaped and started to control what was left of Rapture.

[/QUOTE]

You're right. In various tapes Ryan talks about Lamb being "taken care of". She must have broken out either during the civil war or after he was killed.

Where does the civil war fit into place? Does it go like this? Rapture built, some good years>Adam introduced>Fontaine gains power> Civil War> ?> Ryan's son kills him> Fontaine dead> Lamb rises and takes control. My timeline of events is somewhat shady.

myke, since you mentioned the strength of the small sub narratives, I remembered another cool part of BS2. I'm not sure how many recordings you collected, but
their was this one father going to Rapture to save his daughter (think her name was Cindy). You find various recordings of him documenting his findings. On the stage before the last, you actually fight a Big Daddy. Once you kill it, you get a recording and find out that Big Daddy you just killed was the father. He found his daughter, but it was already too late. Lamb offered him to be part of the Big Daddy program, and he accepts because he is finally reunited with his daughter and able to love and protect her "forever". Gil mentions in one recording how they are running out of Little Sisters due to death, kidnappings, sickness, failed experiments, etc and possibly needing to go to the surface for more girls. Hence the reason why he came from the surface to save his daughter.

I honestly can't think of too many games that explored the dynamics of a father-daughter relationship. None come immediately to mind. I enjoyed that so much more than Lamb's failed community utopia story and IMO is the truth strength of the story.
 
[quote name='Blackout']Thanks for the clarification. This makes things make more sense.



You're right. In various tapes Ryan talks about Lamb being "taken care of". She must have broken out either during the civil war or after he was killed.

Where does the civil war fit into place? Does it go like this? Rapture built, some good years>Adam introduced>Fontaine gains power> Civil War> ?> Ryan's son kills him> Fontaine dead> Lamb rises and takes control. My timeline of events is somewhat shady.

myke, since you mentioned the strength of the small sub narratives, I remembered another cool part of BS2. I'm not sure how many recordings you collected, but
their was this one father going to Rapture to save his daughter (think her name was Cindy). You find various recordings of him documenting his findings. On the stage before the last, you actually fight a Big Daddy. Once you kill it, you get a recording and find out that Big Daddy you just killed was the father. He found his daughter, but it was already too late. Lamb offered him to be part of the Big Daddy program, and he accepts because he is finally reunited with his daughter and able to love and protect her "forever". Gil mentions in one recording how they are running out of Little Sisters due to death, kidnappings, sickness, failed experiments, etc and possibly needing to go to the surface for more girls. Hence the reason why he came from the surface to save his daughter.

I honestly can't think of too many games that explored the dynamics of a father-daughter relationship. None come immediately to mind. I enjoyed that so much more than Lamb's failed community utopia story and IMO is the truth strength of the story.
[/QUOTE]
Mark was actually added late in the game development as fan service to followers of Somethinginthesea.com and Jordan Thomas himself said the sister with the big daddy Mark is his daughter Cindy.
 
[quote name='blissskr']
Mark was actually added late in the game development as fan service to followers of Somethinginthesea.com and Jordan Thomas himself said the sister with the big daddy Mark is his daughter Cindy.
[/QUOTE]

Heh. I didn't even know about that. Regardless, I thought it was really good. Yeah, I assumed the girl was his based off the recording.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']It wasn't entirely the content of the story, really. In part it was - the game felt like a phony attempt at "video game bipartisanship" in the sense that the entire story of Rapture was one of a quasi-Randian Objectivist dystopia - and in this game the cram in a story about the failures of a quasi-Communist in Elanor Lamb. That just seemed to tacked on to me.

But it could have worked well, again, it isn't just the content. Aesthetically the game felt like "Bioshock: Map Level Pack," and that contributed to the convoluted stories linking 1 and 2. Is this truly a failed Communist approach? Hard to tell, since Rapture looks like the same ruined city it was before.

The worst of the game's unforgivable SP sins, thought, came in the form of the final level. Should I spoiler this? Oh, I guess so:

I was stunned when the game ended. I can't remember the last time I finished a game and thought to myself "no way dude, there's gotta be 2-3 more levels! the story's not over! I didn't even fight a boss; WTF?" The problem is that good storytelling involves letting the reader/player know that the end of the arc is coming. I didn't get that feeling at all. I genuinely expected 2 or 3 more levels, a boss fight, some confrontation with Lamb, something. The way the game ended, it felt like more it just stopped than ended, if you can appreciate the distinction.

But the gameplay is indeed good (drill dash FTW!), so maybe I'll get more enjoyment in MP.[/QUOTE]
I can definitely see where you are coming from regarding the story and the anticlimactic ending.
I would have loved to put a spinning drill through Sophia Lambs forehead!
All in all the lead writer did a pretty damn good job IMO considering the act he had to follow. Disregarding BS1, BS2's story is not bad by video game standards.

SP is not bad either, it has pretty decent game play and a healthy does of whimsy.
 
[quote name='Saint Noir']8bit, did you play a particular mode to get that high? I noticed you average a good bit of Adam ever match. Curious if you had any secret. I know you put in the required time to get that high though. I am at about 24 or 25 I think.

Of course, I always collect the vials around the stage, research/hack, always go after the big daddy (killed on last night with a shotgun and wrench pretty much single handedly, felt awesome).[/QUOTE]

dont worry about trials for the most part. just use whatever set up works best for you. killstreaks get you more points than most trials anyway. most trials are completely random (like shock 3 people at once). you might do it, but itll be completely random. i did hack a lot and started to know where the vials were and was a complete photo whore as well. haha. all that stuff is just as important as killing someone.

although per game i had like an average of 750, a more accurate rate is how much you were getting per hour. for example, i reached level 40 in a little under 20 hours, where my friend reach it in 22 hours. he had an average of 825 where mine was 750. he played more capture the sister where i stuck to more death match.
 
[quote name='Blackout']Thanks for the clarification. This makes things make more sense.

Where does the civil war fit into place? Does it go like this? Rapture built, some good years>Adam introduced>Fontaine gains power> Civil War> ?> Ryan's son kills him> Fontaine dead> Lamb rises and takes control. My timeline of events is somewhat shady.
[/QUOTE]

From what I gather, here's how the Timeline works.
Prior to 1958 - Sofia Lamb comes to Rapture to help with depression. Is Jailed. Puts Eleanor under Grace's custody. Stanley Poole takes Eleanor, drops her off at an orphanage, where she becomes a Little Sister.

1958 - (As seen in the intro cinematic) Sofia Lamb is not in Jail for some reason. Lamb finds Delta with Eleanor, splicer Hypnotizes you, you shoot yourself.

New Year's Eve 1958 - Kashmir Restaurant is attacked by Splicers, Civil War officially begins.

1960 - Jack comes to Rapture, events in Bioshock 1 take place. Lamb is probably just hiding out, trying to rehabilitate Eleanor.

1968 - Delta is resurrected, Bioshock 2 takes place.
 
My game froze at the very end and won't start back up. Like right at the end. Something to do with pressing the select button, which causes the game to freeze. Dammit.
Anyways when is a patch coming out?
 
[quote name='Blackout']Is it just me or is the lobby wait unbearably long?[/QUOTE]

It's unbearably long, and compounded by the fact that it resets if the map gets vetoed.
 
I rarely have a long lobby wait, it has happened though, and it makes me try to stay with my group that much more.

[quote name='8bitArtist']dont worry about trials for the most part. just use whatever set up works best for you. killstreaks get you more points than most trials anyway. most trials are completely random (like shock 3 people at once). you might do it, but itll be completely random. i did hack a lot and started to know where the vials were and was a complete photo whore as well. haha. all that stuff is just as important as killing someone.

although per game i had like an average of 750, a more accurate rate is how much you were getting per hour. for example, i reached level 40 in a little under 20 hours, where my friend reach it in 22 hours. he had an average of 825 where mine was 750. he played more capture the sister where i stuck to more death match.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I figured this out after playing lots of capture the sister at first.... but every match is super long. I then switched to team death match which is a lot shorter of a match. I do go for trials, but in a somewhat passive way. I don't just go out and try to get them knocked out.

Yesterday, I completed my favorite trial... kill a splicer as a Big Daddy by landing on them. Was fighting in that one level with the 3 levels of walk ways, homes for the poor I think it is... and a guy went off the rail after I started shooting him. Just jumped right over onto him. Was great.
 
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Up to level 37... almost there. I would get it tomorrow, but I think I will play through GoW II to prepare for III.

Also still have a hard play through to do with this game as well...
 
Noir how many hours did that take you? I just finished my full playthrough (all audio diaries, all weapon upgrades, all research, etc. ) so I have to start multiplayer and my hard playthrough. I figure I'll just harvest all the sisters in my hard playthrough to make it go faster.
 
It took 8 Bit about 20-21 hours. I played a lot of low Adam matches early and also it took me awhile to get good (this is seriously my first online FPS I have played at length since Wolfenstein on original Xbox). That being said, I look like I will hit level 40 in about 22-23 hours (total time played online).

I decided to play today and am at 39. I am scared I will lose my rank (no merit to fear, just don't want it to happen), so I am busting this out first.


Here are tips...

HACK. RESEARCH. Know where the Adam vials are through levels... I usually get 100 Adam just from finding the vials about the level. I have more vials than hacks, and I hack a lot.

Kill Big Daddies. This nets you 100 Adam. Become Big Daddies... this will net you 50 Adam plus the benefit of kicking ass (it is frustrating at first, but once you know the suit spawn locations, you can get this fairly often). Get kill streaks... each one awards you 50 extra adam... you get a streak after 3 kills in a row (or about).

CHARGE your plasmids. If you use plasmids, charge them.
 
I know there hasn't been much talk here in a bit, but I'm really contemplating picking this game up. I really enjoyed the original BioShock, though I've heard this one can be a bit worse at parts.

Right now I'm trying to decide between the regular and the special edition. My only concern is that the SE might drop in price soon enough. I can get the SE for $50, or the regular for $30-35. Basically I'm looking for opinions about whether the SE contents are worth $15-20 more (preferably from those that own the SE).
 
If you're a Bioshock 2 Online fan and you've purchased the DLC Rapture Metro , you know the new maps aren't accessible unless the majority of the room has the new Map Pack.

i've decided to make this group, well, because i'd really like to play these new maps in this great Online multiplayer ! :D

- PSN: iwarboY

Please Add your name to this post, Bioshock 2 Online remains active and great fun!
 
for all who don't care about Bio 2 multiplayer..

i reached lvl 40 yesterday and there's a supercool cutscene adding on to Bioshock 1
^ which, Bioshock 2's multiplayer essentially is --> Bioshock 1 muliplayer . very cool.
 
[quote name='iwarboY']for all who don't care about Bio 2 multiplayer..

i reached lvl 40 yesterday and there's a supercool cutscene adding on to Bioshock 1
^ which, Bioshock 2's multiplayer essentially is --> Bioshock 1 muliplayer . very cool.[/QUOTE]

It was cute but I could have used a little more story.

That having been said I do enjoy the multiplayer.

By far the best DLC was the Minerva's Den. I wish Bioshock 2 had played more like Minerva's Den, it was by far a more cohesive and enjoyable experience.
 
If I don't care AT ALL about multiplayer, and am only in it for the sad lonely single player experience... which DLC add-on stuff would you guys recommend? (I don't want to pay for something only to find out that it's for the multi, and maybe I'm just old but I can't tell what's what from the descriptions). Thanks.
 
[quote name='Chronis']^^Minerva's Den is the only single player DLC, as far as I know... And apparently it's very very good.[/QUOTE]
Minerva's Den is really good, and pretty long for only $10 (assuming you explore every nook and cranny like I do).
I think the Protector Trials DLC is single player too. From the name, I assume you're just protecting little sisters for it.
 
[quote name='CENNY']Thanks for the input guys.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I'll say it again - Minerva's Den was awesome.

Multiplayer is fun too - you should try it once, you may be surprised.
 
[quote name='camoor']Yeah I'll say it again - Minerva's Den was awesome.

Multiplayer is fun too - you should try it once, you may be surprised.[/QUOTE]

Anyone know if the DLC is on PC? I ended up getting this on Steam when it was cheap during the last big Steam sale, , since I traded off the PS3 version a while back and never bought any of the DLC..
 
Hey quick question for those of you who played the first game as well:

If you kill little sisters, do they still help you on the way out of Andrew Ryan's office and after Tenenbaum revives you?
 
[quote name='willardhaven']Hey quick question for those of you who played the first game as well:

If you kill little sisters, do they still help you on the way out of Andrew Ryan's office and after Tenenbaum revives you?[/QUOTE]

Yes.
 
Protector Trials is a waste of cash I regret buying it, all you do is fight off hoards of splicers while a little sister harvests in different places with only certain weapons/plasmids. Minerva's Den is really good story wise and well worth the money though.
 
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