BIOSHOCK - Gen. Discussion & Info

[quote name='jughead']I'm on normal and finding the combat very difficult. This game is awesome![/QUOTE]
Just a little update. After getting a few more power ups and getting to know the enemies a bit better I would say the combat has gotten easier. I can finally take down a Big Daddy without dying. I think that should be an achievement.
 
[quote name='A Happy Panda']Admittedly, I'm not very far in the game, but 10/10 scores? Way too high.[/QUOTE]
10/10 seems right to me, considering the stuff they give 9.5/10's.


But then again, considering the stuff they give 7/10's....


I think the lesson for everyone here is "reviews are bullshit, BioShock rules, the end."
 
Finally beat it.

Ending made me tear a little, I'm such a sob :D


ULTIMATE SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO HAVNEN'T RESCUED ALL LITTLE SISTERS AND BEATEN THE GAME
Those little sisters jumping on Fontaine, stabbing him to death, that was so elating and fulfilling. One of the happiest moments in all of videogaming right there.
 
In case it hasn't been posted yet, BioShock has an official gamerankings ranking now:

Number 4 videogame of all time, just below Metroid Prime and just about Resident Evil 4.


Half-Life 2 has been bumped off the top ten. I guess there's not room enough in this town for two wrench-toting FPS's.



Yeah... the list sucks, btw. Proves my point again: reviews are bullshit.
 
[quote name='A Happy Panda']So are people coming off of their Bioshock high?

Admittedly, I'm not very far in the game, but 10/10 scores? Way too high.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely not. I beat it, and plan to play it again. I'd peg it between a 9.5 and a 10. The atmosphere and story make up for some technical issues - This game sucked me in even more than RE4, which is the last game I can remember losing large swaths of time to.
 
So I just arrived at
Hephaestus
. Any idea how many hours I have left?

Normally I wouldn't ask, but I want to start Blue Dragon ASAP this week.
 
Just beat it and love the game. I still think the game deserves the praise and scores that it got.

That was it? Sure I played on easy, but the ending was so so. I don't see myself getting rid of the game, but the ending seemed kinda half baked. Well it was straight and to the point. I guess that is how the game should end. This was a no bullshit, don't fuck around, in your face game. I can't wait to play it again in a couple months.
 
[quote name='A Happy Panda']So are people coming off of their Bioshock high?

Admittedly, I'm not very far in the game, but 10/10 scores? Way too high.[/quote]

It's not a 10, it's not the best game ever, and it's not going to be game of the year. The game's good, but all this fanboy shit is crazy.

It's a solid 8.5 or 9.
 
[quote name='Trakan']It's not a 10, it's not the best game ever, and it's not going to be game of the year.[/QUOTE]
What's your call for Game of the Year?
 
[quote name='Trakan']It's not a 10, it's not the best game ever, and it's not going to be game of the year. The game's good, but all this fanboy shit is crazy.

It's a solid 8.5 or 9.[/quote]

Your opinion is different from mine, you must be a n00b or a hater or troll. GTFO! ;) :D
 
[quote name='Trakan']It's not a 10, it's not the best game ever, and it's not going to be game of the year. The game's good, but all this fanboy shit is crazy.

It's a solid 8.5 or 9.[/QUOTE]So no if you enjoy a game you are a "fanboy"? :roll:



Funny how 34 highly respected game reviewing outlets unanimously disagree with you (and 14 of them say it is, in fact, a 10).
 
[quote name='asianxcore']So I just arrived at
Hephaestus
. Any idea how many hours I have left?

Normally I wouldn't ask, but I want to start Blue Dragon ASAP this week.[/QUOTE]
Depending on how fanatical you are about searching for every little thing, I'd say about 6-8 hours.

Finished my hard game last night, and got the rest of the achievements! Whoo, that 1000/1000 looks beautiful. :)
 
With all the other crap that gets perfect scores from the press, this is a 10/10 easily.

I expected more from the spiritual successor to System Shock 2, but this is good enough.
 
I'm so angry!! I preordered this game from bestbuy online a few weeks ago, thinking it would come in the mail 2 or 3 days later, but I STILL haven't gotten it yet!!! How frustrating. Now all I have to keep me satisfied is the orchestral soundtrack, which is really very well done.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']So no if you enjoy a game you are a "fanboy"? :roll:



Funny how 34 highly respected game reviewing outlets unanimously disagree with you (and 14 of them say it is, in fact, a 10).[/QUOTE]

=/

Weren't you the one that said reviews don't mean shit?

I'd agree with Trakan. 8.5 or a 9. The complaint I read about in the GS review is one that will bother me a lot when I get further in the game I think. He talked about the weapons just seemingly do less damage, or the enemies have a lot more damage, with no difference in appearance. That kind of sucks. why would the enemies, that have looked exactly the same in the past few hours, suddenly not succumb to my shotgun in their face like they have been before.

Story so far is ok. A lot of the audiotapes just seem superfluous.

Graphics are fantastic to look at, and the plasmids are fun. Hacking is already getting tedious.

And sorry if you think an 8.5 or a 9 is suddenly a "bad score"

If you ask me, I'd say GoW II is my GOTY. Sadly though, since it's on the PS2 and was released in the first quarter of the year, it will get overlooked.
 
[quote name='Jedi1979']what is so bad about the enemies getting harder as you get further along regardless of apearance?...wouldnt that be a good thing?[/QUOTE]

? People who have zero armor should die when I shoot them in the chest point blank with a shotgun. They do it now where I'm currently at in the game. Did they become bulletproof suddenly later on? Those are just my thoughts. To me, a 10/10 score warrants perfection. A detail like that, that is overlooked, does not warrant perfection. To others, 10/10 simply means this game is above the rest.
 
[quote name='A Happy Panda']? People who have zero armor should die when I shoot them in the chest point blank with a shotgun. They do it now where I'm currently at in the game. Did they become bulletproof suddenly later on?[/quote]

as you get more powerful later one why shouldnt they...this game would suck if it was just that easy...i actually had a harder time fighting some of those houdini splicers then the big daddys late in the game
 
[quote name='A Happy Panda']? People who have zero armor should die when I shoot them in the chest point blank with a shotgun. They do it now where I'm currently at in the game. Did they become bulletproof suddenly later on? Those are just my thoughts. To me, a 10/10 score warrants perfection. A detail like that, that is overlooked, does not warrant perfection. To others, 10/10 simply means this game is above the rest.[/quote]

i wouldnt give the game a 10 but it is a very good and enjoyable game that sets itself aside from the rest of the pack...if it had multiplayer then it might have been a 10...i would love to fight against other people using plasmids against each other
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']So no if you enjoy a game you are a "fanboy"? :roll:



Funny how 34 highly respected game reviewing outlets unanimously disagree with you (and 14 of them say it is, in fact, a 10).[/quote]

[quote name='PyroGamer']Proves my point again: reviews are bullshit.[/quote]

You're a hypocrite, kid. You rag on reviewers and then you bring them in and try to prove your point.

Look, I said the game is good. I'd go as far as to call it great. It's not perfect. It's not a 10. When I said fanboy crazy, I was referring to the people calling it the best game ever, or the best looking 360 game. Those people are delusional.
 
[quote name='Jedi1979']as you get more powerful later one why shouldnt they...this game would suck if it was just that easy...i actually had a harder time fighting some of those houdini splicers then the big daddys late in the game[/QUOTE]

I agree, it would suck. But couldn't they signify a difference in their appearance? Or even have one line from Atlas saying like "The splicers have started enhancing their health, or started taking the bulletproof whatever tonic" I would be happy.

Don't get me wrong, I fully enjoy the game. I just find the yells of "Gaming perfection or "10/10" are unfounded, and frankly, blind to some of the game's imperfections.

Also I agree, MP would've been SO awesome with the plasmids. Can you imagine having a guy huck a grenade at you, only to throw it back with telekenesis? Man.
 
It what's on the inside that counts.

If this game is not above a 9/10 then every other game rating needs points deducted from it.
 
I'm almost 75-80% through the game (I think, I just
did not kill Sander Cohen
), and for everything that's good about the game, I really, really feel let down that there's little incentive for me to use anything but the Electro Bolt/Wrench combo, unless I'm fighting Big Daddies. The wrench is *WAY* too strong in this game, IMO. I am looking forward to trying this on hard, though. A FPS must be good if I'll play through it twice.

It's a damned good game, but not perfect.
 
[quote name='porieux']It what's on the inside that counts.

If this game is not above a 9/10 then every other game rating needs points deducted from it.[/QUOTE]
Just finished the game and could not have said it better myself. No, the game isn't perfect. The problem is that it's far better than most games that get 9s.
 
[quote name='zewone']It's not a 10.
And it's not GOTY.
It's not even Game of the Month.[/QUOTE]
Is it cool to be so full of hate? Will they let you shop at Hot Topic now?

Seriously, how stupid is it to call people "fanboys" then spout shit like that. Not liking the game is one thing, people just don't care for games sometimes. I know I've not cared for my fair share of "Games of the Year". But to denigrate the game is just stupid. You not liking it doesn't make it any less superb of a game.

Here are the games for August:
http://www.metacritic.com/search/pr...=9/1/2007&x=29&y=11&metascore_s=&metascore_e=

Tell me what's there that comes close? Only MC3: Corruption is even in the ballpark.

These are the games for the year so far:
http://www.metacritic.com/search/pr...=9/1/2007&x=27&y=14&metascore_s=&metascore_e=

Bioshock may not be "OMG Game of the Year!!!11!" guaranteed, but it's a strong contender. I would say nothing yet this year tops it, and we'll have to see how some big releases coming up pan out.

To pretend otherwise is just well, fanboyish, honestly.
 
[quote name='Damian']Is it cool to be so full of hate? Will they let you shop at Hot Topic now?

Seriously, how stupid is it to call people "fanboys" then spout shit like that. Not liking the game is one thing, people just don't care for games sometimes. I know I've not cared for my fair share of "Games of the Year". But to denigrate the game is just stupid. You not liking it doesn't make it any less superb of a game.

Here are the games for August:
http://www.metacritic.com/search/pr...=9/1/2007&x=29&y=11&metascore_s=&metascore_e=

Tell me what's there that comes close? Only MC3: Corruption is even in the ballpark.

These are the games for the year so far:
http://www.metacritic.com/search/pr...=9/1/2007&x=27&y=14&metascore_s=&metascore_e=

Bioshock may not be "OMG Game of the Year!!!11!" guaranteed, but it's a strong contender. I would say nothing yet this year tops it, and we'll have to see how some big releases coming up pan out.

To pretend otherwise is just well, fanboyish, honestly.[/QUOTE]

When did I say I hate it? You're being very presumptuous.

I'd give the game a 8.5 or a 9.

I could care less what review sites/mags score games.

It's not game of the year because Halo 3, Mass Effect, or God of War 2 will get that title from me.

It's not game of the month, because I much more enjoyed Persona 3.

So, can you go got that polo from Banana Republic now? Don't forget to pop your collar.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'm almost 75-80% through the game (I think, I just
did not kill Sander Cohen
), and for everything that's good about the game, I really, really feel let down that there's little incentive for me to use anything but the Electro Bolt/Wrench combo, unless I'm fighting Big Daddies. The wrench is *WAY* too strong in this game, IMO. I am looking forward to trying this on hard, though. A FPS must be good if I'll play through it twice.

It's a damned good game, but not perfect.[/quote]
I actually worked with the wrench/electro for a while, but then started really getting into other strategies. I did
incinerate-run to water- electro, started using all the chem thrower stuff, and used both the crossbow and shotgun secondary fires pretty often
. I can definitely see people not liking the combat in the game, and also the complaint about the easiness due to revival is valid, but (and I hate to parrot Ken Levine) I really found the strength of the combat to lie in the number of viable options I had.

I can also see the problem some may have with the whole diary system; at first they seemed disparate, but once I started picking up more of them, they both fleshed out Rapture and came together to explain just what the hell was going on.
 
[quote name='Trakan']Look, I said the game is good. I'd go as far as to call it great. It's not perfect. It's not a 10. When I said fanboy crazy, I was referring to the people calling it the best game ever, or the best looking 360 game. Those people are delusional.[/QUOTE]
How does having an opinion different from yours make me a fanboy? BioShock is easily in the top 3 for me, and I absolutely think it's the best looking 360 game. It's not a technical marvel, but the art and design are simply stunning.

How am I a fanboy exactly? I wasn't even planning to buy the game until I played the demo.
 
[quote name='SilverPaw750']How does having an opinion different from yours make me a fanboy? BioShock is easily in the top 3 for me, and I absolutely think it's the best looking 360 game. It's not a technical marvel, but the art and design are simply stunning.

How am I a fanboy exactly? I wasn't even planning to buy the game until I played the demo.[/QUOTE]

? He never called you specifically a fanboy.

Better looking than Gears? Ehh. The water is a lot better of course, but the textures, and character models? I'd disagree.
 
[quote name='A Happy Panda']? He never called you specifically a fanboy.

Better looking than Gears? Ehh. The water is a lot better of course, but the textures, and character models? I'd disagree.[/QUOTE]
I specifically said it's not a technical marvel, but the art and design are far superior to any other game, in my opinion.
 
[quote name='A Happy Panda']? He never called you specifically a fanboy.[/quote]

Exactly. I never called out him or Pyro, yet they both responded like I did.

Makes me think twice about it.
 
[quote name='zewone']When did I say I hate it? You're being very presumptuous.[/quote]
Your dismissive tone and declarative statements were enough.
I'd give the game a 8.5 or a 9.
I could care less what review sites/mags score games.
It's not game of the year because Halo 3, Mass Effect, or God of War 2 will get that title from me
It's not game of the month, because I much more enjoyed Persona 3.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I wasn't aware that you defined the game industry.

Up until you enlightened me I was under the impression that Game of the Year refers to the games that are widely acclaimed as superb examples of game design.

What you (or I, for that matter) like isn't relevant. Our individual opinions just don't matter. Like I said, I've disliked plenty of Games of the Year. That doesn't mean they weren't superb games. When you start throwing around terms like Game of the Year you need to either heavily qualify that you're talking about your personal favorite release, or be prepared to back up what you said with something more that your personal opinion on a game.
 
[quote name='Trakan']You're a hypocrite, kid. You rag on reviewers and then you bring them in and try to prove your point.[/quote]
Wrong.

My point holds up perfectly.

I agree reviews are bullshit, that doesn't change the fact that people who think this game is a 10/10 are not just "fanboys". This game is universally held in high regard, and it's not just "fanboy bullshit".

If you're calling every single game reviewing outlet in the known universe "fanboys", then I'd like to show you to the door.

Look, I said the game is good. I'd go as far as to call it great. It's not perfect. It's not a 10. When I said fanboy crazy, I was referring to the people calling it the best game ever, or the best looking 360 game. Those people are delusional.
Click to expand...
Well aparently I'm delusional because I think it can well be well argued that this game is the best looking game on the 360. The only thing competing for its place is Gears, and Gears' art-design is entirely different, making objective comparisons difficult at best.

Maybe there's games that technically run better or look crisper, but the beauty of this game is far-reaching.


As for best game ever. No, I don't think so. The game uses some tired game-design clichés that it suffers a bit from. Even the art-design gets a bit bland after 20 hours.

It's still an absolutely amazing game the type of which we've never seen before. Its storyline is a powerful and intellectual masterpiece I'd say is near unrivaled in the gaming world. And its spliced-up gameplay, even if most of it has been done before, is an absolute blast.


If any game deserves to get a score higher than a 9, it's this game.

[quote name='A Happy Panda']? He never called you specifically a fanboy.

Better looking than Gears? Ehh. The water is a lot better of course, but the textures, and character models? I'd disagree.[/QUOTE]
If you want to start counting texture resolution, be my guest. But if you want me to compare the awesomeness of a Big Daddy and Little Sister combo to the bland borring of a GoW drone... I'm going to have to say you're fucking crazy.




EDIT: I also completely agree wtih Damian's post.
 
[quote name='Damian']Your dismissive tone and declarative statements were enough.[/quote]

Enough for you to presume? Still doesn't make it the truth.
[quote name='Damian']

Sorry, I wasn't aware that you defined the game industry.

Up until you enlightened me I was under the impression that Game of the Year refers to the games that are widely acclaimed as superb examples of game design.

What you (or I, for that matter) like isn't relevant. Our individual opinions just don't matter. Like I said, I've disliked plenty of Games of the Year. That doesn't mean they weren't superb games. When you start throwing around terms like Game of the Year you need to either heavily qualify that you're talking about your personal favorite release, or be prepared to back up what you said with something more that your personal opinion on a game.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I wasn't aware that I defined the game industry either. I was just stating my personal opinion. I thought that would be easy to pick up on, since I had posted nothing to back up my claims otherwise.

Oh, and for the record, reviews are just the reviewers opinions. Who's to say whose opinion matters more?

And to Pyro Gamer, the story was okay. I would recommend you play more games if you think Bioshock's story is a masterpiece. You'll be pleasantly surprised. As far the gameplay, it is quite solid and does a lot of cool stuff, but as you said, lots of cliches and things I've seen elsewhere.

If this game was set up more as an RPG like Deus Ex or Oblivion, and less FPS I think it would definitely have been a 10.
 
[quote name='zewone']Oh, and for the record, reviews are just the reviewers opinions. Who's to say whose opinion matters more?[/quote]No they are not. They are supposed to be objective gauges on the actual quality of the work. You can't really come off with much more than opinions, but the idea is to agonize over your opinions perfecting your critique and review of the work.

Most reviewers just do hack jobs, but that's not the point of a review, nor should it be the norm.

Anyone can say "I liked that game" and give it a 1-10 score shooting from the hip, but a reviewer's job is supposed to be agonizing over their decision and critically thinking through the piece and its qualities. They also have the job of uplifting and defending new advances in the craft they critique, but that is secondary (at least secondary in terms of common-ness).

And to Pyro Gamer, the story was okay. I would recommend you play more games if you think Bioshock's story is a masterpiece. You'll be pleasantly surprised. As far the gameplay, it is quite solid and does a lot of cool stuff, but as you said, lots of cliches and things I've seen elsewhere.

If this game was set up more as an RPG like Deus Ex or Oblivion, and less FPS I think it would definitely have been a 10.
Click to expand...
I can mostly agree with all of this but the last part, which I think is utterly riddiculous. What worked in this game was not for an RPG, it was a very linear story that worked precisely the way it was made. I do think perhaps the ending of the game actual lended itself a bit too much to RPG, perhaps. But endings are tricky things.

If you wanted this game to be an RPG, I think you just couldn't appreciate the beauty of it. I find that dissapointing, but I suppose it's your loss.


I also think you don't really appreciate how great the story was, especially in the way it was told. The way this wonderful story was told is something entirely new that we haven't seen in any other game, no matter how many I decide to go play.


I think if there was any problem with the story it was utterly undeveloped characters. At first I thought there were too many characters
fontaine, atlas, ryan, the german lady
, but the more I think of it, the more I realize they were just woefully undeveloped. But the problem is, spending any more time developing them and the gameplay starts getting tired.
 
I was more worried about the gameplay and not the story.

The gameplay would have greatly benefited from more RPG-ish situations.

The way it was told? With in game graphics and diaries? It's been done.
 
[quote name='Trakan']Exactly. I never called out him or Pyro, yet they both responded like I did.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='Trakan']Look, I said the game is good. I'd go as far as to call it great. It's not perfect. It's not a 10. When I said fanboy crazy, I was referring to the people calling it the best game ever, or the best looking 360 game. Those people are delusional.[/QUOTE]
I think it has the best art direction of any game I've played, and it's in my top 5 games ever at the VERY least (top 3, probably). Therefore, according to you, I am "fanboy crazy" and "delusional". You didn't call me out specifically, but I was still part of your generalization.

And yes, I'd give it around a 9.7, or, depending on the criteria of the specific grading scale, maybe a 10. Does that make me delusional? No, it's just my opinion. And obviously it's the opinion of the gaming press - I have to agree with Pyro on this one...
[quote name='PyroGamer']They are supposed to be objective gauges on the actual quality of the work. You can't really come off with much more than opinions, but the idea is to agonize over your opinions perfecting your critique and review of the work.[/QUOTE]
So just because you don't like a game, doesn't mean it isn't absolutely spectacular, and isn't a contender for GOTY. For God sakes, Bioshock is the highest rated game so far this year, so it's obviously in the running for GOTY.
[quote name='Damian']What you (or I, for that matter) like isn't relevant. Our individual opinions just don't matter. Like I said, I've disliked plenty of Games of the Year. That doesn't mean they weren't superb games. When you start throwing around terms like Game of the Year you need to either heavily qualify that you're talking about your personal favorite release, or be prepared to back up what you said with something more that your personal opinion on a game.[/QUOTE]
I ABSOLUTELY agree. I have despised many GOTY's. Even Gears of War is an 8/10 for me, but I recognize that it's a great game (single player was repetitive, multi-player sucked). Just because you have specific gripes with a game doesn't mean it isn't spectacular. For instance:
[quote name='zewone']If this game was set up more as an RPG like Deus Ex or Oblivion, and less FPS I think it would definitely have been a 10.[/QUOTE]
I hated Deus Ex. In my opinion, it's a boring and glitchy shooter. That doesn't mean I don't agree that it's a spectacular game - I understand its achievements and the acclaim for it, it's just not my type of game. I probably would have enjoyed it more if it were more like Bioshock. So I don't run around insisting it isn't good, or calling other people who like it insane, i just say I don't like it.

Point is, maybe you have some problems with Bioshock. But that doesn't mean it isn't absolutely spectacular, or GOTY material. The most objective viewpoint we have on whether a game is any good or not is GameRankings or MetaCritic, and they both support the GOTY predictions. Hell, LoZ: OoT is the highest rated game at GR, and I thought that game was "meh", but I still realize that it's one of the greatest games ever - how can 32 professional critics be that wrong?

And you can say "bawwwww, I don't agree with reviewers" - that's why you look at metacritic/gamerankings instead of one review site. Theoretically, the average of all the scores is the best way to place a game.
 
[quote name='paz9x']wow battle of the internetz[/quote]

BUAHAHAHAHA what a fantastic and succinct way to summarize this thread.
 
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