Black Teen Shot, Killed By Neighborhood Watch

So... your big defense is an article where they talk about removing disruptive students from the class room for the exact purpose of not allowing them to disrupt the experience of the other students? Then, the article goes on to discuss how they're working on other methods to keep the disruptive students involved in school instead of suspending them so they can try to work with them and make them better students?

Okay then.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']So... your big defense is an article where they talk about removing disruptive students from the class room for the exact purpose of not allowing them to disrupt the experience of the other students? Then, the article goes on to discuss how they're working on other methods to keep the disruptive students involved in school instead of suspending them so they can try to work with them and make them better students?

Okay then.[/QUOTE]
My big defense? You were the one that had no idea I was talking about an article linked in the post. Don't blame me for not being able to follow my posts. Maybe you should go cry to a mod about it if you think I'm being too mean by pointing out that you had no idea what you were talking about.

[quote name='dohdough']IF anything, I've gone far out of the way to say many times that schools alone cannot solve our social ills or that blaming the parents is any better..[/QUOTE]
This means that even by segregating students, you're only fixing one aspect of their lives that affects their ability to be well adjusted students when there are countless big things and little things that also factor into the equation. But you already knew that right?:roll:
 
Students who follow the rules shouldn't have their learning experiences diminished by those who choose not to. Period.

If students - any students - are being extremely disruptive in the classroom, then the teacher has the responsibility to remove them from the classroom. Period.
 
This Trayvon Martin thing has crawled all the way under my skin. In part because it’s an absolute travesty, which I feel like is obvious to anyone with two eyes and half a brain. But really, it’s because I’ve heard this song over and over again, ever since I was a kid. “Say sir when speaking to authority figures, keep your hands out of your pockets, look directly into their eyes, be respectful, do everything you can to make sure that my firstborn son doesn’t come home in a pine box because people can and will hurt you for no reason past your skin color.”

One of the biggest tragedies in the Trayvon Martin case isn’t that he was hunted and murdered and his killer will probably get away scot-free. It’s that a mother and father lost their son for a senseless reason, and now their son is an idea. He’s a cautionary tale. He’s a prop for someone else’s argument, and will be until the end of time. He’s not even a statistic. At least with a statistic, it’s anonymous and eventually fades into nothing. An idea is inescapable. People are already taking that boy’s name in vain, using his photo and name however they wish and to prop up whatever point they have to make. I’m probably guilty of it myself, just by writing this paragraph.

There’s a lot of Brothers boys. My little brother is 22. My littlest brother turns four this year. I’ve got close boy cousins that range from 10 to 18 or so. I’m slimmer than most of ‘em, but we’re all pretty tall. Tall enough and black enough to be threatening by default, to know not to mouth off to the police, to know how many black people are in a room within seconds of walking in, to knowing exactly how angry we can get in public before we become a Problem. It is what it is.

None of us are innocent, despite what we might tell our parents. Stories like Trayvon Martin’s, or Sean Bell’s, or Kathryn Johnston’s, or Oscar Grant’s prove that the first thing people are going to do when I get shot is look at what I did to deserve it. Not even in a funny Richard Pryor, “It oughtta be against the law to make a motherfucker want to kill you,” sort of way, either. I mean people are going to go out and look for the things that I was involved in that make me less of an innocent, and therefore more worthy of being killed. He smokes weed? Probably a drug dealing thug. Oh dang, he has a tattoo in Swahili on his arm? Is that gang-related? Did he hate white people? Is he a radical black nationalist? Came from a single parent household, huh? Got up to hoodlum stuff while he was overseas? Let’s find some old girlfriends, what do they got to say? What’s with those scars up and down his arms? Have you seen his iTunes? Did he buy all this murder music? I made a joke the other day that my library is 1/4 drug dealing music, 1/4 drug using music, 1/4 murda muzik, and 1/4 love songs. Pick your proof. Build your picture of me.

Right now, Reuters (and the New York Times, and other outlets) is reporting that Martin was suspended from school for ten days because they found a baggie that might have at one point contained marijuana in his backpack. It didn’t have weed in it, mind. It might have. It’s irrelevant to the case, but there’s an intimation there, a hint that Martin wasn’t just black, he was black. Aggressive. Angry. Whatever stereotype you choose to fill-in to his blank so that you can make an informed decision on how to feel about him getting shot after buying candy and tea during the All-Star game. Since he had maybe smoked weed at seventeen years old, several weeks before he was tracked and murdered by a guy with a gun and an inflated sense of his own authority, he had maybe had it coming. After all, drugs, right? Something something gang banger something. Rap music.

This happens every time. It happened to Oscar Grant, it happened to Sean Bell, it happened to Kathryn Johnston (who was 92 years old when she was shot and killed and had officers plant drugs in her home), and it happened to Shem Walker. Remember that guy? He came home to his family’s house to find a suspicious stranger sitting on his stoop. Knowing good and well that nothing good will ever come of that, he told the stranger to move on. The stranger had earphones on and didn’t hear him somehow. Walker went to remove the man physically, for obvious reasons, they got into a fight, and then the stranger pulled a gun and shot him in the chest. The stranger, of course, was an undercover cop, waiting out a drug bust down the road. In the days and weeks after the shooting, we found out that Walker used to be a convict. Why? Because… because, man, just because. Because that somehow has something to do with him not wanting some suspicious dude on his mother’s porch. Son was 49 years old, I don’t know how old his mother was, and he was killed for doing exactly what he should have done in that situation. He was killed for being a good son. But he went to jail once you know? Never mind whether or not he was reformed. He was a convict.

Martin’s story — all of these stories — is a reminder. It’s a reminder that you have so little control over your life that who you are doesn’t actually matter. All that matters is what other people can make you into. You’re not a person, not in the end. You’re just a thing to be used and discarded, no matter how good of a guy you were, no matter how cute your daughter is, they’re going to find something on you and that’s going to be that. Sorry, but Mister Charlie needs grist for the mill.

It’s depressing. I’m depressed. I’ve had a hard March. I’ve been pretty much checked out, if we’re being totally honest with each other. It took me several days to realize that I almost actually died when I had my bicycle accident on 02/29. If the lady behind me hadn’t hit her brakes coming down that hill after I wiped out and savaged my knee, I’d be done. Zipped up in plastic, when it happens, that’s it. The month that followed has been positively absurd with the number of things going wrong, breaking, and whatever else. (The month isn’t over yet and there’s good odds I’m due one more poor turn, ha ha!) I’ve been bummed for weeks, running as fast as I can to stay ahead of the devil, and this Martin thing is like… it’s cold water to the face. It’s a “Welcome back!” from reality, where America chews up and spits out the ones who need it most, where life isn’t fair and you were stupid for thinking it was fair in the first place, where being black makes you a target to the people sworn to swerve and protect and a threat to everyone else. Reminds me of something Sarah Jones once said. “It is the thickest blood on this planet/ The blood that, sprays and spills in buckets/ soaks and stains the nightly news, but fuck it/ A colored life still ain’t worth but a few ducats.”

And it’s racism. All of it. It is unquestionably, objectively racism. It’s not some guy going out to lynch nigras for looking at white women, but that’s not the entirety of what racism is. Racism is a system. Racism is a way of thinking. Racism is subconscious. Racism is an entire country being trained to suspect an entire race of being shifty, lazy, or suspicious by default. I have to prove that I’m not a threat? How about I make America prove it doesn’t want to murder me, since there’s way more precedent for that than some skinny kid being a savage. If I have my hood up and I’m not smiling because I’m having a bad day, I’m a threat, someone to make you clutch your purse or hug your girl closer. I’m a thug? C’mon son. I’m just having a bad day in the big city. Get real. You’ve been trained to see brown skin and go to “Threat!” first instead of “Person!” You’ve been brainwashed.

The craziest part of this brainwashing is how a very basic situation has been twisted into something incredibly ugly. An unarmed child is shot and killed for doing nothing but walking home by a man with no authority who had been told to stand down by the police. This is cut and dry. You can look at this and go, “Oh, that’s a tragedy.” But because the kid was black, because everything is ultra-politicized, because racism is so ingrained in the DNA of the United States of America, this is somehow a controversy. I repeat: an unarmed child was shot dead by a grown man. This is one situation that everyone should be able to understand. It’s a nightmare scenario for every family ever. And yet… the news is telling us that the child may have possibly been a thug, a drug dealer, a hoodlum, a monster, as if any of that has anything to do with why he got shot. There are people out there actively digging up (incorrect) dirt on Trayvon Martin as if that matters at all. He’s a… I don’t even know, a point in a long-running argument, an abstraction about the evils of black youth.

The flip side of that coin is that “Black people are cool now.” Saving them, at least.

The past few weeks have been pretty bad for trend hopping. There was the Kony 2012 crew getting up on their white horse and riding into Uganda by way of Youtube so they could… make Joseph Kony famous? That guy is personally responsible for the dislocation of millions, the murder and rape of thousands of children, and worse. Guess what: he’s plenty famous already, and your idiotic, soundbite-ready youtubes aren’t a help except to people whose idea of activism is turning their location on Twitter to “Iran.” Trayvon Martin has given plenty of people a chance to beat their chest, including a bunch of Occupy Wall Streets advocating violence at a peaceful march. Geraldo is off somewhere telling black people how to live their lives. Everyone is all choked up at black men and women sharing their stories of racism and appalled at the world we live in. Everybody’s got a cause, everybody feels bad… I’m not without sin myself, this essay is proof positive, but I can’t tell you how depressing it is to see my white friends suddenly discover police brutality (hey there, occupy wall street), or racism, or realize that every single one of their black friends has a bunch of stories about times that their race negatively affected their lives. It’s so obvious to me, and it sucks and is unfair that even support sometimes feels like an attack. Where have you been that you didn’t notice this until now?

The experience of being black in America is one of being constantly reminded that you are black in America, with all the drama that comes from it. The preferred term online amongst… whoever for black people is People of Color, or POC. I hate it, because yo, first, everyone has color, and second, how about you don’t define me in opposition to somebody else? I feel like that should be a basic human right. The right to not be not-White. It’s basic things like that that are what I mean. I can’t escape the fact that I’m black and have built-in baggage, even if I wanted to.

A post-racial society is a myth, and everyone who claims to be color-blind is an idiot. Race is inextricable from our daily life, for better or for worse. That’s part of why so much of my comics-related writing has revolved around the intersection between black people and comics. It matters to me, on a deeply personal level, and I’m trying to figure out how to make that come across, from my first stumbling and clumsy steps to the targeted icepicks to the neck in blog form that I wish I was better at using today. I can’t not think about it, because almost every time I read a comic, I’m reminded of it.

I’m constantly being reminded of the fact that I’m black and how terrible being black can be almost every time I take in something. Music, movies, real life, love, friendship, whatever. It affects everything. You can’t be race-blind. Not when every movie with a black star is the tipping point for black cinema, or when the cool new way to say a woman has a nice butt online (“DAT ASS!”) is explicitly satirizing somebody’s fake idea of a black rapper (specifically Rich Boy), or when a discussion on white British soul singers somehow turns into a referendum on who “owns” a certain type of music. Not when, in America, white is always going to be treated as the default. There’s gonna be that twinge, that feeling of “Oh, this is talking about me or people like me,” and it’s stupid. It’s absolutely stupid.

And black is beautiful, man. I wouldn’t trade being black, being who I am, for the world. But, boy would I love to jettison some of the baggage associated with it. I don’t like looking at Trayvon Martin and seeing me and my brothers and my cousins. I don’t like talking to the homey Cheryl Lynn and having her point out that at a certain point, the light goes out in the eyes of little black boys, and then realizing that there’s a reason I stopped smiling in every picture I have of myself past a certain age. I don’t like realizing that every connection I made to a popular character comes via metaphor or inference, rather than actual fact. Real life is hard enough without that baggage.

With it… well, life goes on regardless. Trayvon Martin has graduated to being a symbol, rather than a person. He’s a chess piece to be used to show that black people are horrible, that police brutality exists, that kids these days are a problem, that the news media is broken and corrupt, that America eats its young. In death, as in life, he’s treated as something less than human. It’s incredibly unfair, and there’s no solution on the horizon.

http://4thletter.net/2012/03/thats-just-the-way-it-is/
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Students who follow the rules shouldn't have their learning experiences diminished by those who choose not to. Period.

If students - any students - are being extremely disruptive in the classroom, then the teacher has the responsibility to remove them from the classroom. Period.[/QUOTE]
Yup. Let's just solely place the blame on the children for bad behavior. They're just born that way and not influenced by anything at all. In matter of fact, this is why I previously suggested we get rid of the juvenile justice system because if we're going to assign personal responsibility, then we might as well try them all as adults. It's not like we don't do it already for some cases. Hell, we've even executed children upto 2005 when it was outlawed by the Supreme Court.

It's almost as if I jumped passed your pathetic arguments hours ago, yet you still insist on going through the motions as if you thought you had something to add that I haven't already acounted for. Pathetic.
 
[quote name='dohdough']edited out due to length
[/QUOTE]

and there it is folks...

hey man get some help. Seriously there is nothing wrong with seeking mental help...there is no shame in it. You are delusional and sound desperate and consulting a PROFESSIONAL should be your priority.

Everything will be fine but call a loved one and have them help you get the proper help or the hospital and they can help direct you.

Please
 
Except for the part where I never said the disruptive children are solely to blame for their behavior.

I said they need to be removed from where they'll do the most damage.

I don't blame a feral cat for scratching and biting... but if one gets in a playpen full of babies, I'm going to remove it.
 
dohdough Please take my advice and in the meantime do yourself another favor and turn off the computer and the news it is not helping you.

edit: also an internet forum is not a place for you right now or maybe ever.

Take Care and hang in there.
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']and there it is folks...

hey man get some help. Seriously there is nothing wrong with seeking mental help...there is no shame in it. You are delusional and sound desperate and consulting a PROFESSIONAL should be your priority.

Everything will be fine but call a loved one and have them help you get the proper help or the hospital and they can help direct you.

Please[/QUOTE]
Weren't you the one demanding nuanced debate? There were numerous issues regarding racism, the justice system, police action, etc, but you addressed absolutely nothing. Color me surprised.

[quote name='UncleBob']Except for the part where I never said the disruptive children are solely to blame for their behavior.

I said they need to be removed from where they'll do the most damage.

I don't blame a feral cat for scratching and biting... but if one gets in a playpen full of babies, I'm going to remove it.[/QUOTE]
You're only suggesting that you remove them, which only addresses the kids that were bystanders, and not the kids acting out, who are just as important as those that aren't. The fact that you decide to change misbehaving kids into feral cats is telling. I'm fucking talking about people; not goddamned rabid animals.

And you can cry to a mod about that too if you find the language too colorful.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Weren't you the one demanding nuanced debate? There were numerous issues regarding racism, the justice system, police action, etc, but you addressed absolutely nothing. Color me surprised.
.[/QUOTE]

Please Please Please read post 401 and 404 AGAIN.

Dude seriously I read the whole post and your other posts since I came on but that last one was especially insightful. You have some good points but mostly delusion and desperation.

I am seriously giving you good advice especially where you need to get off the internet and turn off the news..that is a minimum. After you really should seek professional help.

Please
 
[quote name='dohdough']You're only suggesting that you remove them,[/quote]

Wrong again, sir. Yes, I'm saying that you remove them. Allow the class to go on, uninterrupted. That should be the primary concern. Period.

If resources allow, THEN, you can work on helping this individual child in correcting his or her disruptive behavior.

Sadly, our schools are poorly ran and badly underfunded (with those funds being poorly allocated)... so if limited resources are to be put to the best use, focus on the non-problem children first, then help the problem children. If you allow one child to ruin the entire classroom, you get nothing.

And you can cry to a mod about that too if you find the language too colorful.

It really hurts your feelings when you get in trouble for not following the rules, eh?
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']Please Please Please read post 401 and 404 AGAIN.

Dude seriously I read the whole post and your other posts since I came on but that last one was especially insightful. You have some good points but mostly delusion and desperation.

I am seriously giving you good advice especially where you need to get off the internet and turn off the news..that is a minimum. After you really should seek professional help.

Please[/QUOTE]
I'm going to hold my comments on this until you figure out that once again, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.
 
I'm glad I deleted my post saying I like formal debate last night, that's for sure.

If the media is going to judge Zimmerman's character, using unflattering photos, eventually expect the same from the victim because they have to portray 'a fair and balanced' view of a story even though it's bullshit news coverage. I'm not saying this is a racist thing, but a media thing; it's clockwork to them to keep you, the viewer, enraged and tuned in.

If you think you're getting trapped by the media hype machine, turn it off.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Wrong again, sir. Yes, I'm saying that you remove them. Allow the class to go on, uninterrupted. That should be the primary concern. Period.

If resources allow, THEN, you can work on helping this individual child in correcting his or her disruptive behavior.

Sadly, our schools are poorly ran and badly underfunded (with those funds being poorly allocated)... so if limited resources are to be put to the best use, focus on the non-problem children first, then help the problem children. If you allow one child to ruin the entire classroom, you get nothing.[/QUOTE]
So what you're saying is that since we don't have the resourses, el-oh-el, and kids act out, then fuck'm cause we can't do a goddamn thing for them.

It's not like I've been saying that even if we had more resources directed to school, it still wouldn't solve the problem of having problem kids, right? Then that would mean your point doesn't matter.

edit: Which makes this even MORE redundant because I already addressed your point for probably the third or forth time with the rest of my post you butchered out.

It really hurts your feelings when you get in trouble for not following the rules, eh?
I didn't "get in trouble" for not following the rules. You reported my posts. If I was in trouble, I would've been suspended or banned. If those posts were problematic enough, then they would've been pulled. And frankly, I've said much worse than calling you and your playdate morons. The rules also call for mature discussion and you haven't followed that rule for a while and violate it more than I flame people.

edit: I actual feel some pity because you have to resort to lies and blatant dishonesty to defend your arguments.
 
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You really should consider attempting to have a conversation where, instead of deciding where the other person stands, arguing against where you think they stand, then twisting their replies to fit your narrow-minded, prejudiced idea of their POV, you actually read what they write, consider it, then reply based on the words they actually used. It would make our conversations much more sensible.

Having to have your posts edited by a moderator for the singular purpose of removing your words is typically considered a form of punishment.

And besides, I only reported one of your posts today.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']You really should consider attempting to have a conversation where, instead of deciding where the other person stands, arguing against where you think they stand, then twisting their replies to fit your narrow-minded, prejudiced idea of their POV, you actually read what they write, consider it, then reply based on the words they actually used. It would make our conversations much more sensible.

Having to have your posts edited by a moderator for the singular purpose of removing your words is typically considered a form of punishment.

And besides, I only reported one of your posts today.[/QUOTE]
In other words, I should take what you say at face value regardless of the implications that arise from what you posit/propose, as if there is no relation between a cause and it's effect. Or am I somehow misinterpreting what "based on the words they actually used."

So let's apply this scenario because it's exactly the kind of thing you don't want to happen. When Spokker says that black people are more prone to criminality because of black culture, we're supposed to assume he has a non-racist explanation that isn't because he didn't say he hated black people or has a bias against them?

And this hissy fit of yours is a result of not being able to follow an argument between me and someone else. It must've really cheesed you off that the post is still there that proves you had no idea what you were talking about. Did you think that the post would even come close to being pulled? Like I said, I'm not going to hold my breath for an apology, retraction, or concession on you being proved wrong.

Or maybe if you weren't such a dishonest troll, people wouldn't need to read between the lines of your posts. If you wanted a sensible conversation, you wouldn't be chopping up quotes the way you do.
 
lol. Oh, geeze. Having a conversation with you is like playing a game of telephone with one person. You tell them something and by the time they repeat it back, it's become something totally different.
 
I will admit, the threadcrappers are starting to get to me a bit.

They aren't waiting for the facts so much as they are screeching "$$$$er, $$$$er $$$$er $$$$er" and hope no one notices.
 
Looking forward to the apology from Spike Lee.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/2...ter-tweet-claims-killer-trayvon-miller-lives/

An elderly Florida couple have been forced to move into a hotel after their home address was wrongly tweeted as belonging to the man who shot teen Trayvon Martin.

The tweets were traced back to a man in California and the address was also reportedly retweeted by director Spike Lee to his almost 250,000 followers.

The couple, aged 70 and 72, have been harassed with hate mail, been hassled by media and had scared neighbors questioning them since the tweet, their son Chip Humble told the Orlando Sentinel.

Fearful for their safety, and hoping to escape the spotlight, the couple have temporarily moved to a hotel.

This is what people mean when they say that the media and certain advocacy groups are fanning the flames out there.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...e-george-zimmerman-twitter-controversy-304775

Spike Lee has been earning mostly positive accolades in Hollywood and the mainstream media for taking up the cause of Trayvon Martin, the Florida teenager killed by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman. A hasty retweet, though, has landed the activist-director in hot water, at least in some circles.
It would certainly seem like the correct thing to do, seeing as Spike Lee's net worth has been reported to be upwards of $40 million, would be for Mr. Lee to voluntarily reimburse the couple for their expenses related to the room rental and being denied the use of their home.

This would be far more productive than Lawrence O'Donnell yelling at an empty chair.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Oh and obviously, suspending black students even more will magically make them better students.[/quote]
No, my friend, the issue the instructor is trying to publicize is that the black students are not being disciplined out of some damn fool idea that has been summed up as "cultural misunderstanding." He doesn't want them suspended more but removed from the classroom when the conditions warrant it. He has even given the school board good ideas that don't involve suspension and the educator gets no consideration from worthless administrators.

We seem to forget that we have already seen the solutions in action. They've been implemented and have worked, with flying colors. The remedy in East Los Angeles was not touchy-feely bullshit but high standards and a take no shit attitude. Unfortunately, the man who was instrumental in implementing these things in a single school was run out of his profession. All I can do is put up my hands and shrug.

[quote name='UncleBob']If that's the case, judging by Obama's performance as President, he must be albino by now.[/QUOTE]He's Bush III.
 
[quote name='dohdough']When Spokker says that black people are more prone to criminality because of black culture[/QUOTE]
Well, if you really want to be technically accurate, it's young black males that are more prone to criminality relative to other racial and ethnic groups.

For all teenagers, accidents are the leading cause of death for those aged 12-19. For black males aged 12-19, the leading cause of death is homicide.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...e-leading-cause-death-among-young-black-males

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db37.htm#does

Many articles dance around naming the group that is predominantly killing young black males. The CDC is, of course, not interested in doing that as it is understandably out of their jurisdiction. They just count the dead bodies. The answer, though, is other young black males.

Despite having structural characteristics similar to and sometimes worse than blacks (income, education, poverty, etc.), Hispanic whites do not die or kill at nearly the same rate as young black men do, though young male Hispanic whites are more criminal on average than young male non-Hispanic whites. That ordinal ranking is generally sound.

It's a major, major problem for both groups and while the structural explanations are nowhere near without merit, they probably cannot explain all of the black-white gap in homicides. At some point you will have to look at culture as this study suggests: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~roos/Courses/grstat502/phillipssp802.pdf

The study finds that if Hispanics had all the structural characteristics of non-Hispanic whites, the homicide rate gap would completely disappear. But the same is not true for blacks as just over half the gap is erased. The authors hypothesize for future research that there is an interaction between structural and unmeasured cultural factors. Their example of possible race-specific measures of culture? Gang membership and gun ownership.
 
Hispanic gangs scared the hell out of me as equally as black gangs when I lived in L.A.

So why do young black males kill more, Spokker? Are there any underlying social reasons why black men feel desperate enough to kill or are we just animals?

You don't think we see that Hispanics can chill for a few generations and eventually become white while we can't scrub the blackness off our skin and become "more American"?
 
This whole thing is becoming and being made a circus. The media is doing their normal bs and flaming the fire every chance they get. The politicians are flaming the fires when as leaders they really should know better but hey whatever gets them the media attention. All of the radicals are grasping onto it with their weak little minds. Special interest groups are throwing in their gasoline to self-serve themselves. The kids are seeing all of this and getting misinformed and lead to groupthink like they are prone to.

Just another chapter in a 24 hr a day media and internet era that feeds the ignorant and a.d.d. The groupthink and gullibility of people today is sad.
For older people most know not to fall into all these trappings and if they don't know better well...another time...
but the younger people who are growing up with this and unless being taught by family how to look at all sides, theories, evidence, background culture and research it themselves fall prey to all the propaganda.

How far will this go? We will see.
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']This whole thing is becoming and being made a circus. The media is doing their normal bs and flaming the fire every chance they get. The politicians are flaming the fires when as leaders they really should know better but hey whatever gets them the media attention. All of the radicals are grasping onto it with their weak little minds. Special interest groups are throwing in their gasoline to self-serve themselves. The kids are seeing all of this and getting misinformed and lead to groupthink like they are prone to.

Just another chapter in a 24 hr a day media and internet era that feeds the ignorant and a.d.d. The groupthink and gullibility of people today is sad.
For older people most know not to fall into all these trappings and if they don't know better well...another time...
but the younger people who are growing up with this and unless being taught by family how to look at all sides, theories, evidence, background culture and research it themselves fall prey to all the propaganda.

How far will this go? We will see.[/QUOTE]

Get out of here, older people are just as prone to fall into the trap as young people are, if not even more so then younger people. Look at how many older people actually believe Obama is a Muslim.
 
[quote name='soulvengeance']Get out of here, older people are just as prone to fall into the trap as young people are, if not even more so then younger people. Look at how many older people actually believe Obama is a Muslim.[/QUOTE]


Older people are prone as well just not as much and that is what I said.

I love how out of all of that I said that is what you come back with. I didn't think what I said was negative or off base.

As far as the obama thing what the hell does that have to do with this? Besides that it is a silly question. Do you know how many people believe he is muslim? I know there are those who do but I don't know how many.

What a silly thing soulvengence.

Oh and no I will not "get out of here".

edit: You know what I can see how what I said can be offending. The youth part...I am sorry I should clarify I mean young young you know like 16 and below and even then there are some very smart and aware kids.
But yes we can all be victims of the media and internet culture today this is a new era with new and many traps and downnfalls. Everyone is susceptible but "kids" even more so by no fault of their own.
 
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[quote name='Pliskin101']This whole thing is becoming and being made a circus. The media is doing their normal bs and flaming the fire every chance they get. The politicians are flaming the fires when as leaders they really should know better but hey whatever gets them the media attention. All of the radicals are grasping onto it with their weak little minds. Special interest groups are throwing in their gasoline to self-serve themselves. The kids are seeing all of this and getting misinformed and lead to groupthink like they are prone to.

Just another chapter in a 24 hr a day media and internet era that feeds the ignorant and a.d.d. The groupthink and gullibility of people today is sad.
For older people most know not to fall into all these trappings and if they don't know better well...another time...
but the younger people who are growing up with this and unless being taught by family how to look at all sides, theories, evidence, background culture and research it themselves fall prey to all the propaganda.

How far will this go? We will see.[/QUOTE]

Only a circus in your head, because you can't understand why someone would stand up for a UNARMED kid over a ARMED fat thug cop wannabee.
 
[quote name='Spokker']Looking forward to the apology from Spike Lee.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/2...ter-tweet-claims-killer-trayvon-miller-lives/



This is what people mean when they say that the media and certain advocacy groups are fanning the flames out there.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/ne...e-george-zimmerman-twitter-controversy-304775


It would certainly seem like the correct thing to do, seeing as Spike Lee's net worth has been reported to be upwards of $40 million, would be for Mr. Lee to voluntarily reimburse the couple for their expenses related to the room rental and being denied the use of their home.[/QUOTE]
If only there was an organization that had the ability to enforce laws and investigate possible criminal actions...an organization that would thoroughly investigate the shooting of an unarmed minor by an armed adult that was stalking said minor...an organization with people that investigated things and didn't tamper with witness testimony. If only there was an organization that could effectively communicate with the public about the progression of the case. Kinda like the Sanford Police Department without all of it's history of racism and cronyism that didn't stonewall investigations that lead to the escalation of public hostility, the temporary removal of the police chief, and a federal investigation into the case and the department. But no, let's put the burden of the blame on Spike Lee because he wrongfully retweeted the incorrect address.

Take note that I said it was wrong.

This would be far more productive than Lawrence O'Donnell yelling at an empty chair.
Yeah, it's not like O'Donnell had no right to be upset after the show picked up Sonner, drove him to the door, and after getting out of the car, went back into the car, and told the driver to get him outta there. King of context, you are.

[quote name='Spokker']No, my friend, the issue the instructor is trying to publicize is that the black students are not being disciplined out of some damn fool idea that has been summed up as "cultural misunderstanding." He doesn't want them suspended more but removed from the classroom when the conditions warrant it. He has even given the school board good ideas that don't involve suspension and the educator gets no consideration from worthless administrators.

We seem to forget that we have already seen the solutions in action. They've been implemented and have worked, with flying colors. The remedy in East Los Angeles was not touchy-feely bullshit but high standards and a take no shit attitude. Unfortunately, the man who was instrumental in implementing these things in a single school was run out of his profession. All I can do is put up my hands and shrug.[/QUOTE]
If only I had addressed this 6 times already instead of 4, then maybe someone would take notice as to why answers similar to yours aren't a magical fix.

He's Bush III.
el-oh-el

[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']http://lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w251.html[/QUOTE]
I'm assuming that your point here is that the police have a habit of breaking laws they're supposed to be enforcing?



[quote name='ID2006']


Not much new here. I wonder what the testimony was, if they made appropriate points or not.​
[/QUOTE]
I actually agree that Zimmerman needs to be under protective custody, although, I bet he already is.

[quote name='Pliskin101']Here is one of those idiots like I was referring to in my post #421. I am so happy that some grown people in leadership roles are being so responsible and well...grown up...NOT.

Rep. Bobby Rush chided for wearing hoodie on House floor for Trayvon Martin

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rayvon-martin/2012/03/28/gIQAlf8WgS_blog.html[/QUOTE]
A hoodie is not a hat. Technicalities like that are used all the time.
 
[quote name='HaloSucks']Only a circus in your head, because you can't understand why someone would stand up for a UNARMED kid over a ARMED fat thug cop wannabee.[/QUOTE]

Do you even read for comprehension?

I didn't say that at all. One man killed a kid and wrongfully so. The circus that has insued since as I stated is absurd and disgusting.

The real question is...
Why don't you understand that?
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']Older people are prone as well just not as much and that is what I said.

I love how out of all of that I said that is what you come back with. I didn't think what I said was negative or off base.

As far as the obama thing what the hell does that have to do with this? Besides that it is a silly question. Do you know how many people believe he is muslim? I know there are those who do but I don't know how many.

What a silly thing soulvengence.

Oh and no I will not "get out of here".

edit: You know what I can see how what I said can be offending. The youth part...I am sorry I should clarify I mean young young you know like 16 and below and even then there are some very smart and aware kids.
But yes we can all be victims of the media and internet culture today this is a new era with new and many traps and downnfalls. Everyone is susceptible but "kids" even more so by no fault of their own.[/QUOTE]

Relax, I wasn't really attacking you, just a "get out of here" said in jest.:) I can see why you reacted a bit though due to the craziness that is happening in this thread. What I'm really saying is that people seem to think the youth are the only naive ones when it's clear the older set fall into this too. I guess it really falls to every individual to do a little more investigation of the sources.
 
[quote name='soulvengeance']Relax, I wasn't really attacking you, just a "get out of here" said in jest.:) I can see why you reacted a bit though due to the craziness that is happening in this thread. What I'm really saying is that people seem to think the youth are the only naive ones when it's clear the older set fall into this too. I guess it really falls to every individual to do a little more investigation of the sources.[/QUOTE]
I think there's an important distinction between reacting to and creating the craziness in this thread. He's clearly not the former.
 
[quote name='soulvengeance']Relax, I wasn't really attacking you, just a "get out of here" said in jest.:) I can see why you reacted a bit though due to the craziness that is happening in this thread. What I'm really saying is that people seem to think the youth are the only naive ones when it's clear the older set fall into this too. I guess it really falls to every individual to do a little more investigation of the sources.[/QUOTE]

:);)

Cool and I agree.
 
My whole problem with this is that it got turned into a "ZIMMERMAN MUST BE RACIST" and "Try to paint the Martin as _______"(even though it doesn't matter if he was "Blackout" (look at Soodmegs posts if you don't know who that is) or a straight A Harvard student) instead of talking about how tragic it is, and how freakin corrupt the police department in Sanford is.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']My whole problem with this is that it got turned into a "ZIMMERMAN MUST BE RACIST" and "Try to paint the Martin as _______"(even though it doesn't matter if he was "Blackout" (look at Soodmegs posts if you don't know who that is) or a straight A Harvard student) instead of talking about how tragic it is, and how freakin corrupt the police department in Sanford is.[/QUOTE]

What? If you are saying that this has blown way up, over a tragic event where ONE idiot man shot and killed a kid, and turned into Everyone is racist from the cops, to the entire police department, to the entire state, to the entire united states, to all the non-black people living in it, and all wrongfully so. Then okay.
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']What? If you are saying that this has blown way up, over a tragic event where ONE idiot man shot and killed a kid, and turned into Everyone is racist from the cops, to the entire police department, to the entire state, to the entire united states, to all the non-black people living in it, and all wrongfully so. Then okay.[/QUOTE]
As bad as the cops were. The law in Florida is fucking bizarre. Do you even know what you are arguing any mote?
 
[quote name='Msut77']As bad as the cops were. The law in Florida is fucking bizarre. Do you even know what you are arguing any mote?[/QUOTE]

what do you expect from those "southern states"....
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']My whole problem with this is that it got turned into a "ZIMMERMAN MUST BE RACIST" and "Try to paint the Martin as _______"(even though it doesn't matter if he was "Blackout" (look at Soodmegs posts if you don't know who that is) or a straight A Harvard student) instead of talking about how tragic it is, and how freakin corrupt the police department in Sanford is.[/QUOTE]
The problem with Zimmerman being a non-hood wearing racist and Martin being portrayed as a every black male stereotype is the lack of the ability of most of the country to understand racism beyond an elementary school level. The tragedy and corruption are real, but you can't strip the reality of race playing a huge part in why it makes what happened even worse.

Zimmerman's bias is an important factor, but systemic racism exasperates the problem by giving Zimmerman the benefit of every possible doubt while looking for every little excuse that would make Martin responsible for his death. Then you have the police shielding Zimmerman and not investigating the case with the rigor it deserves. And it goes even deeper than that.

Did you read the long post I posted a couple pages back? It explains a lot.
 
The police are shielding zimmerman is one of those idiotic statements that is just part of the circus and those falling victim to it or knowingly spout false stuff.
Also part of the circus is the statement most of the nation does not understand racism beyond an elementary level but those making those kind of statements are the ones making idiotic statements,lumping and making blanket statements that are utterly false. They are the ones that can't comprehend beyond an elementary level. Actually that isn't accurate because if they are knowingly doing so then they are not moral where children are generally moral in nature. Those making these statements are drawing absurd conclusions and being over all delusional.

The utter gibberish people are spouting out over this is disgusting.
 
[quote name='HaloSucks']funny wish there was such outrage when a foreign asian kid was gunned down ...

So much for equal protection FOR EVERYONE[/QUOTE]

This case is getting attention mainly because of the FL stand your ground law, which made it so the murderer still hasn't been arrested.
 
[quote name='IRHari']This case is getting attention mainly because of the FL stand your ground law, which made it so the murderer still hasn't been arrested.[/QUOTE]

Same with the excuse used for gunning down a unarmed asian kid too..

The "self-defense" laws down in the south are all problemetic.

People need to realize that many of these laws are based on the premise of racial stereotypes.
How many non-whites are killed because of the use of these laws, compared to whites.
 
[quote name='HaloSucks']Same with the excuse used for gunning down a unarmed asian kid too..

The "self-defense" laws down in the south are all problemetic.

People need to realize that many of these laws are based on the premise of racial stereotypes.
How any non-whites are killed because of the use of these laws, compared to whites.[/QUOTE]

You really should learn and think before you speak.

"People need to realize that many of these laws are based on the premise of racial stereotypes. "

Learn your legal history before spouting off such gibberish and joining the "circus". Seriously!!

So there are only whites and non-whites? I guess they never taught you about ethnicities and indivuals in school.
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']The police are shielding zimmerman is one of those idiotic statements that is just part of the circus and those falling victim to it or knowingly spout false stuff.[/quote]
I book-ended that statement with the reason why I feel that way. If you feel I'm wrong, then a proper response from you would be to outline why you think it's an idiotic statement.

Also part of the circus is the statement most of the nation does not understand racism beyond an elementary level but those making those kind of statements are the ones making idiotic statements,lumping and making blanket statements that are utterly false. They are the ones that can't comprehend beyond an elementary level.
I've outlined countless times how racism operates in this forum and probably at least a dozen time in this thread alone, which I'm sure you haven't read the entirety of. The only thing you've graced us with is vapid post after vapid post. You bitch about no one wanting a serious debate, yet you persist in not providing anything of value.

Actually that isn't accurate because if they are knowingly doing so then they are not moral where children are generally moral in nature. Those making these statements are drawing absurd conclusions and being over all delusional.
What does consciously saying something immoral have to do with children being moral in nature as if children aren't sponges that soak up everything they see?

Even then, what about is so absurd about those statements and delusional beyond you saying so, as if you've proven that you're any authority on anything beyond being a bad troll?

The utter gibberish people are spouting out over this is disgusting.
Frankly, I'm surprised that you didn't say "udder gibberish" considering the couple sentences that came before it.
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']You really should learn and think before you speak.

"People need to realize that many of these laws are based on the premise of racial stereotypes. "

Learn your legal history before spouting off such gibberish and joining the "circus". Seriously!!

So there are only whites and non-whites? I guess they never taught you about ethnicities and indivuals in school.[/QUOTE]

Really the only fool I see is you who continual refuse to accept that there are issues that continue to be swept under the rug.

Oh yea, and we all know that we live in a country were the laws treat everyone equally.. You sir, takes the cake for being a TOTALLY BLIND fool.:booty:
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']You really should learn and think before you speak.

"People need to realize that many of these laws are based on the premise of racial stereotypes. "

Learn your legal history before spouting off such gibberish and joining the "circus". Seriously!!

So there are only whites and non-whites? I guess they never taught you about ethnicities and indivuals in school.[/QUOTE]

It's not that he thinks there are only whites and non-whites. The enforcement of the law makes it seem that a white person can claim self-defense and get away with murder. We all

One other thing in the case bugs me. I wonder if the cops would've arrested Zimmerman if his last name was Rodriguez. Everyone seems to be pointing to the fact that he's Hispanic and that somehow proves that minorities are just as racist (if not more) than whites. Why?
 
[quote name='depascal22']One other thing in the case bugs me. I wonder if the cops would've arrested Zimmerman if his last name was Rodriguez.[/quote]
Now this would be an interesting wrench in the machine.

Everyone seems to be pointing to the fact that he's Hispanic and that somehow proves that minorities are just as racist (if not more) than whites. Why?
I think it has less to do with him being Hispanic, and therefore proving that minorities can be racist too, than about changing the narrative into "this isn't a racist killing because he's a minority too," as evidenced by Zimmerman's letter to the paper. Not that either eliminates the systemic racism that is evidence in how the investigation was conducted.
 
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