Breaking Bad Appreciation Thread
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That scene. You know the scene. That scene was awesome.
I don't want to use another adjective to describe why it was awesome, because I don't want to ruin it in the slightest for anyone. But it was awesome.
I don't want to use another adjective to describe why it was awesome, because I don't want to ruin it in the slightest for anyone. But it was awesome.
The more I think on how Gus and Jesse stared at each other, the more I think Jesse's days are seriously numbered. More so than Walt with his cancer. That'll be the indicator, maybe, that Walt's gone completely "bad" and numb to it all, that he doesn't flinch at his complicity in Jesse's demise.
That's some serious bullshitting for now, we're quite a distance from that, it's just the exchange between Gus and Jesse was powerful. Like Jesse says, they all know where the other stands, and Gus has to know that all Jesse cares about is revenge, and offing those two dealers the Aztec way wasn't enough after the Gale incident.
That's some serious bullshitting for now, we're quite a distance from that, it's just the exchange between Gus and Jesse was powerful. Like Jesse says, they all know where the other stands, and Gus has to know that all Jesse cares about is revenge, and offing those two dealers the Aztec way wasn't enough after the Gale incident.
So no references at all to the Kenny Rogers shirts? In perfect Breaking Bad fashion with Walt still wearing the large sticker. hahahahahahah....I never thought they'd be able to inject levity in that whole episode but they 
ing did it.
"The Aztec way." hahahaha...This show makes me want to buy a Pontiac Aztek. I pulled up to one next to a traffic light just to see how much acceleration they had. Damn I needed Season 4 to start.
ing did it."The Aztec way." hahahaha...This show makes me want to buy a Pontiac Aztek. I pulled up to one next to a traffic light just to see how much acceleration they had. Damn I needed Season 4 to start.
ph33r m3
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[quote name='dothog']The more I think on how Gus and Jesse stared at each other, the more I think Jesse's days are seriously numbered. More so than Walt with his cancer. That'll be the indicator, maybe, that Walt's gone completely "bad" and numb to it all, that he doesn't flinch at his complicity in Jesse's demise.
That's some serious bullshitting for now, we're quite a distance from that, it's just the exchange between Gus and Jesse was powerful. Like Jesse says, they all know where the other stands, and Gus has to know that all Jesse cares about is revenge, and offing those two dealers the Aztec way wasn't enough after the Gale incident.[/QUOTE]
I actually think it's opposite for Jesse....I think he's in the driver's seat.
Just a hunch, but during the Denny's scene, Jesse explains why he think he's safe and so is Walt.
Gus wants someone who he can trust and won't rat. Walt signs off on Jesse, and Jesse who killed Gale is pigeon-holed for murder, so he couldn't leave even if he wanted to.
Just my .02
That's some serious bullshitting for now, we're quite a distance from that, it's just the exchange between Gus and Jesse was powerful. Like Jesse says, they all know where the other stands, and Gus has to know that all Jesse cares about is revenge, and offing those two dealers the Aztec way wasn't enough after the Gale incident.[/QUOTE]
I actually think it's opposite for Jesse....I think he's in the driver's seat.
Just a hunch, but during the Denny's scene, Jesse explains why he think he's safe and so is Walt.
Gus wants someone who he can trust and won't rat. Walt signs off on Jesse, and Jesse who killed Gale is pigeon-holed for murder, so he couldn't leave even if he wanted to.
Just my .02
Yeah, but what I'm wondering is if Jesse can live with the arrangement with Gus.
He wasn't just staring down Gus in that scene, he was realizing that Gus is the Real Deal. For instance, in that moment Jesse might've realized that Gus probably didn't just tolerate using kids to sell drugs, Gus *sanctioned* it and the two dealers were just carrying out orders.
It's a hypothetical, of course, but were something like that possible, I doubt Jesse would be satisfied being Gus's lacky. And I doubt Gus doesn't know that from the way Jesse looked at him during the scene.
He wasn't just staring down Gus in that scene, he was realizing that Gus is the Real Deal. For instance, in that moment Jesse might've realized that Gus probably didn't just tolerate using kids to sell drugs, Gus *sanctioned* it and the two dealers were just carrying out orders.
It's a hypothetical, of course, but were something like that possible, I doubt Jesse would be satisfied being Gus's lacky. And I doubt Gus doesn't know that from the way Jesse looked at him during the scene.
pinebarrens
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The only problem I had with the episode was that
Funniest line=
Jesse just sat in his car after killing Gale.
Funniest line=
"Trust us."
silentevil
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[quote name='ph33r m3']I actually think it's opposite for Jesse....I think he's in the driver's seat.
Just a hunch, but during the Denny's scene, Jesse explains why he think he's safe and so is Walt.
Gus wants someone who he can trust and won't rat. Walt signs off on Jesse, and Jesse who killed Gale is pigeon-holed for murder, so he couldn't leave even if he wanted to.
Just my .02[/QUOTE]
Jesse isn't worried about being turned in for the murder. He knows Gus won't go to the police. Gus killed Victor in front of Jesse and Walt. I think next season will be the last season. Walt has to die or get caught eventually.
I think this season Hank will try/get addicted to a drug of some kind. My guess would be the blue meth. Seeing his work effect his family I think Walt will start to regret making meth. Just my guess.
[quote name='strayfoxx']So no references at all to the Kenny Rogers shirts? In perfect Breaking Bad fashion with Walt still wearing the large sticker. hahahahahahah....I never thought they'd be able to inject levity in that whole episode but theying did it.
"The Aztec way." hahahaha...This show makes me want to buy a Pontiac Aztek. I pulled up to one next to a traffic light just to see how much acceleration they had. Damn I needed Season 4 to start.[/QUOTE]
I think the clothes will be addressed in a later episode. Walt and Jesse appeared to have on the same clothes. If not they were both wearing white pants and similar shirts.
Just a hunch, but during the Denny's scene, Jesse explains why he think he's safe and so is Walt.
Gus wants someone who he can trust and won't rat. Walt signs off on Jesse, and Jesse who killed Gale is pigeon-holed for murder, so he couldn't leave even if he wanted to.
Just my .02[/QUOTE]
Jesse isn't worried about being turned in for the murder. He knows Gus won't go to the police. Gus killed Victor in front of Jesse and Walt. I think next season will be the last season. Walt has to die or get caught eventually.
I think this season Hank will try/get addicted to a drug of some kind. My guess would be the blue meth. Seeing his work effect his family I think Walt will start to regret making meth. Just my guess.
[quote name='strayfoxx']So no references at all to the Kenny Rogers shirts? In perfect Breaking Bad fashion with Walt still wearing the large sticker. hahahahahahah....I never thought they'd be able to inject levity in that whole episode but they
ing did it."The Aztec way." hahahaha...This show makes me want to buy a Pontiac Aztek. I pulled up to one next to a traffic light just to see how much acceleration they had. Damn I needed Season 4 to start.[/QUOTE]
I think the clothes will be addressed in a later episode. Walt and Jesse appeared to have on the same clothes. If not they were both wearing white pants and similar shirts.
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silentevil
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[quote name='strayfoxx']So no references at all to the Kenny Rogers shirts? In perfect Breaking Bad fashion with Walt still wearing the large sticker. hahahahahahah....I never thought they'd be able to inject levity in that whole episode but they ing did it.
"The Aztec way." hahahaha...This show makes me want to buy a Pontiac Aztek. I pulled up to one next to a traffic light just to see how much acceleration they had. Damn I needed Season 4 to start.[/QUOTE]
I think the clothes will be addressed in a later episode. Walt and Jesse appeared to have on the same clothes. If not they were both wearing white pants and similar shirts.
ing did it."The Aztec way." hahahaha...This show makes me want to buy a Pontiac Aztek. I pulled up to one next to a traffic light just to see how much acceleration they had. Damn I needed Season 4 to start.[/QUOTE]
I think the clothes will be addressed in a later episode. Walt and Jesse appeared to have on the same clothes. If not they were both wearing white pants and similar shirts.
[quote name='silentevil']
I think this season Hank will try/get addicted to a drug of some kind. My guess would be the blue meth. Seeing his work effect his family I think Walt will start to regret making meth. Just my guess.[/QUOTE]
This is an interesting idea.
I'm surprised no one's chimed in on last night's episode. I was a bit relieved by Mike and Walt's big talk, because some of the cheerleaders for Walt/Mike v. Gus had me briefly convinced that the alliance would come about simply due to Victor. I was happy that Mike saw Walt's plan for what it is: self-involved and, more importantly, trouble.
And man, poor Jesse. I've probably repeated that at the conclusion of every other episode. That poor kid is getting screwed over so bad. Talk about getting in with the wrong sort.
I think this season Hank will try/get addicted to a drug of some kind. My guess would be the blue meth. Seeing his work effect his family I think Walt will start to regret making meth. Just my guess.[/QUOTE]
This is an interesting idea.
I'm surprised no one's chimed in on last night's episode. I was a bit relieved by Mike and Walt's big talk, because some of the cheerleaders for Walt/Mike v. Gus had me briefly convinced that the alliance would come about simply due to Victor. I was happy that Mike saw Walt's plan for what it is: self-involved and, more importantly, trouble.
And man, poor Jesse. I've probably repeated that at the conclusion of every other episode. That poor kid is getting screwed over so bad. Talk about getting in with the wrong sort.
ph33r m3
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[quote name='dothog']This is an interesting idea.
I'm surprised no one's chimed in on last night's episode. I was a bit relieved by Mike and Walt's big talk, because some of the cheerleaders for Walt/Mike v. Gus had me briefly convinced that the alliance would come about simply due to Victor. I was happy that Mike saw Walt's plan for what it is: self-involved and, more importantly, trouble.
And man, poor Jesse. I've probably repeated that at the conclusion of every other episode. That poor kid is getting screwed over so bad. Talk about getting in with the wrong sort.[/QUOTE]
Aaron Paul > Acting
I'm surprised no one's chimed in on last night's episode. I was a bit relieved by Mike and Walt's big talk, because some of the cheerleaders for Walt/Mike v. Gus had me briefly convinced that the alliance would come about simply due to Victor. I was happy that Mike saw Walt's plan for what it is: self-involved and, more importantly, trouble.
And man, poor Jesse. I've probably repeated that at the conclusion of every other episode. That poor kid is getting screwed over so bad. Talk about getting in with the wrong sort.[/QUOTE]
Aaron Paul > Acting
continuegaming
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favorite show ever...really it's just that good...
the writing on breaking bad always surprises me, i get tired of everything else where you see what is coming from miles away, here you never know what to expect from episode to episode.
and since it was mentioned earlier, the creator (vince gilligan) said it's going to end at the end of season 5... (he will have accomplished his goal of turning (walt) "mr. chips" into "scarface").
i know i am going to be wrong, but it's fun to speculate, so:
the mexican drug lords are going to be a much bigger presence this season, episode 4 on i think we are going to start seeing a full on drug war between gus and the mexican drug lords. (since they have been "probing for weakness")
as bad/tough as you think gus is (since "boxcutter") i think they will introduce some real tough mexican gangsters later this season... it'll be like deadwood, where the "bad guy" was "swearengen", then "tolliver" then "the leviathan" ("george hurst").
i'm still thinking there was more to walt's murder of gus's dealers, (why did gus go so apeshit over the loss of some low level local dealers with as big of an (multi-state) operation as he has). seems like he'd be able to replace those guys (relatively easy), and if they actually did kill that kid, what was the loss... i understand gus wants loyalty from his people, but he risked his whole operation (to take out walt) over the death of some low level dealers who killed an 11 year old kid. theres got to be more to that story than we know... (i mean if he's willing to kill victor like a dog, what was so special about those dealers walt killed?)
i think we'll learn more about that in the remainder of this season.
the writing on breaking bad always surprises me, i get tired of everything else where you see what is coming from miles away, here you never know what to expect from episode to episode.
and since it was mentioned earlier, the creator (vince gilligan) said it's going to end at the end of season 5... (he will have accomplished his goal of turning (walt) "mr. chips" into "scarface").
i know i am going to be wrong, but it's fun to speculate, so:
the mexican drug lords are going to be a much bigger presence this season, episode 4 on i think we are going to start seeing a full on drug war between gus and the mexican drug lords. (since they have been "probing for weakness")
as bad/tough as you think gus is (since "boxcutter") i think they will introduce some real tough mexican gangsters later this season... it'll be like deadwood, where the "bad guy" was "swearengen", then "tolliver" then "the leviathan" ("george hurst").
i'm still thinking there was more to walt's murder of gus's dealers, (why did gus go so apeshit over the loss of some low level local dealers with as big of an (multi-state) operation as he has). seems like he'd be able to replace those guys (relatively easy), and if they actually did kill that kid, what was the loss... i understand gus wants loyalty from his people, but he risked his whole operation (to take out walt) over the death of some low level dealers who killed an 11 year old kid. theres got to be more to that story than we know... (i mean if he's willing to kill victor like a dog, what was so special about those dealers walt killed?)
i think we'll learn more about that in the remainder of this season.
[quote name='continuegaming']as bad/tough as you think gus is (since "boxcutter") i think they will introduce some real tough mexican gangsters later this season... it'll be like deadwood, where the "bad guy" was "swearengen", then "tolliver" then "the leviathan" ("george hurst"). [/QUOTE]
Speaking of Deadwood, how about Ellsworth the small arms dealer?
As for the threat to Walt not ending at Gus, I can see that. However, I don't know that anyone's set up Gus as a Super Bad Villain -- or rather, any worse than any other bad guy we've run into. I think we all saw the writing on the wall for Victor, the question is why Gus insisted on that bit of theater. At first we think it's just to get people to get in line and STFU, but both Walt and Mike are starting to think there was more to it (each in his own way).
Where Walt's thinking on that theater, focusing on himself as usual, and seeing a threat to his own life, Mike might be slowly realizing what you're talking about. Sure, Mike definitely understands the point Walt makes, that Mike could be as disposable to Gus as Victor. But it's possible that Mike saw in Gus's display something in Gus, maybe he saw signs that Gus is threatened/unsettled by the competition and realized the influence that might have had on the bit of theater in the lab.
That's all conjecture on Mike's thoughts, but I think you're right that they won't have Gus be Walt's primary focus for much longer. I think the way Gus deals with them, by staying the hell away from them, is how it'll stay, I don't think there will be a scene with Gus and Walt in the same room anytime soon. (Or rather I hope not.) I think you're right that new threats will pop up to shift our focus from Walt v. Gus, and it'll give Walt an idea what *real* danger feels like -- it's not just hiding shiners from Skyler.
[quote name='continuegaming']
i'm still thinking there was more to walt's murder of gus's dealers. . .what was so special about those dealers walt killed?)
[/QUOTE]
This is the part I don't quite agree with. Not that it's necessarily "off," just that you may be working too hard at that point. I don't see how Gus risked his "whole operation" over those dealers. What was special about them was that Jesse wanted them dead, and they're Gus's guys, and if anyone gives the order for them to die, it'll be Gus, not Jesse. These 2 guys were part of Gus's operation, and he deals with them in his way, not Jesse's.
The fact that Jesse/Walt circumvented the process Gus has in place was what prompted his going after J/W. There wasn't much risk to it, he had Gale as a contingency. He just got outplayed on that point, it never occurred to him or Mike that Walt and Jesse were capable of murdering an innocent. It could be that the writers decide to make those 2 dealers somehow "connected," but for the time being, I think their murder is representative of the threat that Walter and Jesse's impulsiveness and frailty poses to Gus's operation. That's it. (For now.)
Speaking of Deadwood, how about Ellsworth the small arms dealer?
As for the threat to Walt not ending at Gus, I can see that. However, I don't know that anyone's set up Gus as a Super Bad Villain -- or rather, any worse than any other bad guy we've run into. I think we all saw the writing on the wall for Victor, the question is why Gus insisted on that bit of theater. At first we think it's just to get people to get in line and STFU, but both Walt and Mike are starting to think there was more to it (each in his own way).
Where Walt's thinking on that theater, focusing on himself as usual, and seeing a threat to his own life, Mike might be slowly realizing what you're talking about. Sure, Mike definitely understands the point Walt makes, that Mike could be as disposable to Gus as Victor. But it's possible that Mike saw in Gus's display something in Gus, maybe he saw signs that Gus is threatened/unsettled by the competition and realized the influence that might have had on the bit of theater in the lab.
That's all conjecture on Mike's thoughts, but I think you're right that they won't have Gus be Walt's primary focus for much longer. I think the way Gus deals with them, by staying the hell away from them, is how it'll stay, I don't think there will be a scene with Gus and Walt in the same room anytime soon. (Or rather I hope not.) I think you're right that new threats will pop up to shift our focus from Walt v. Gus, and it'll give Walt an idea what *real* danger feels like -- it's not just hiding shiners from Skyler.
[quote name='continuegaming']
i'm still thinking there was more to walt's murder of gus's dealers. . .what was so special about those dealers walt killed?)
[/QUOTE]
This is the part I don't quite agree with. Not that it's necessarily "off," just that you may be working too hard at that point. I don't see how Gus risked his "whole operation" over those dealers. What was special about them was that Jesse wanted them dead, and they're Gus's guys, and if anyone gives the order for them to die, it'll be Gus, not Jesse. These 2 guys were part of Gus's operation, and he deals with them in his way, not Jesse's.
The fact that Jesse/Walt circumvented the process Gus has in place was what prompted his going after J/W. There wasn't much risk to it, he had Gale as a contingency. He just got outplayed on that point, it never occurred to him or Mike that Walt and Jesse were capable of murdering an innocent. It could be that the writers decide to make those 2 dealers somehow "connected," but for the time being, I think their murder is representative of the threat that Walter and Jesse's impulsiveness and frailty poses to Gus's operation. That's it. (For now.)
continuegaming
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--yeah, that was neat.
--- i get the impression that gus is paranoid that his organization is showing any bit of weakness (victor was a loose end, so i get why he got killed). i think gus "plays" the smooth businessman, but underneath he's much more ruthless, and that act was one of frustration and dominance. (he doesn't like to be told the plays by walter and wants to show walter and mike that although he plays this businessman.. he himself is capable of violence (kinda like kaiser soze offing his own family in the usual suspects)
here's one thing i can't understand:
assuming gus is the smart guy we know him to be.
---why would he ever have gotten rid of gail (at walters behest) and bring in jesse?
this makes no sense... here's why:
---because he knows walt has cancer and (probably) only has months to live... doesnt make alot of sense knowing that your one chemist has terminal lung cancer, and given the millions in the investment why not just get rid of walter and stick with the less pure gail meth. (seems like the most logical smart move to me).
DestroVega
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^good plot hole most wouldn't be able to pick out
I don't think there's a hole there.
We got a flashback where we can see that Gus is pushing Gale to learn to understand and replicate Walt's cook. The message is that Gus had no intention of keeping Walt from the start -- it was exactly as Gale guessed, that Gus had the best facilities and wanted the best product (99% not 96%). The incident with Jesse and the 2 dealers made Gus want to ditch Walt and Jesse even more, he had every intention of having Gale be his laboratory rat.
Again, Gus just didn't plan on getting outfoxed by Walt, he didn't know Walt and Jesse would straight up murder someone in cold blood. Jesse did that shit.
We got a flashback where we can see that Gus is pushing Gale to learn to understand and replicate Walt's cook. The message is that Gus had no intention of keeping Walt from the start -- it was exactly as Gale guessed, that Gus had the best facilities and wanted the best product (99% not 96%). The incident with Jesse and the 2 dealers made Gus want to ditch Walt and Jesse even more, he had every intention of having Gale be his laboratory rat.
Again, Gus just didn't plan on getting outfoxed by Walt, he didn't know Walt and Jesse would straight up murder someone in cold blood. Jesse did that shit.
DestroVega
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^true, but Gus could have tried to stand his ground and keep Gale in there.
I'm not saying Gus wouldn't have done differently had he known how big a pain in the ass Walt is, but in context, Gus's decisions aren't unbelievable or out of character, nor is the writing contradictory. In allowing Jesse to replace Gale, Gus probably thought it was a small battle with a touchy high school teacher -- he's got enough to hold over Walt, the guy will croak eventually, so why push it? Just monitor him, let Gale observe his methods on the sly, and keep an eye on this Jesse kid.
His actions support this, as he accommodated the possibility of Walt being his master cook while keeping Gale on the payroll, and it worked out except for his miscalculation on how amazinglyed up Walter is. Gus should have confiscated the Black Hat and the Aztec from the start.
His actions support this, as he accommodated the possibility of Walt being his master cook while keeping Gale on the payroll, and it worked out except for his miscalculation on how amazingly
ed up Walter is. Gus should have confiscated the Black Hat and the Aztec from the start.
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well... (not trying to argue here) but think about it this way.
at the point walt is negotiating with gus to get rid of gale he's really negotiating from a point of weakness...gus knows that walts days are numbered and he has a long term business venture to think about (and walt is not a part of the long term venture given his condition).
if...
walt gets what he wants (no gale) gus will only get the 99% pure meth for a short period of time (until walt kicks the bucket). --- but at that point he's going to have loose ends (i.e. gales replacement, jesse, whom he already doesnt trust)
however, if...
walt is forced to work with gale, not only does gus get the 99% pure meth from walt, but also gale can learn the formula and gus's future is more safe. if gale doesnt get the formula, no loss, he's still got his original plan, gale.
from a pure business perspective, it just doesn't make sense for gus to get rid of gale... gus's negotiating tactic should be "gale or no deal"... since he's really got walt over a barrel (walt's only gonna live a short time)
at the point walt is negotiating with gus to get rid of gale he's really negotiating from a point of weakness...gus knows that walts days are numbered and he has a long term business venture to think about (and walt is not a part of the long term venture given his condition).
if...
walt gets what he wants (no gale) gus will only get the 99% pure meth for a short period of time (until walt kicks the bucket). --- but at that point he's going to have loose ends (i.e. gales replacement, jesse, whom he already doesnt trust)
however, if...
walt is forced to work with gale, not only does gus get the 99% pure meth from walt, but also gale can learn the formula and gus's future is more safe. if gale doesnt get the formula, no loss, he's still got his original plan, gale.
from a pure business perspective, it just doesn't make sense for gus to get rid of gale... gus's negotiating tactic should be "gale or no deal"... since he's really got walt over a barrel (walt's only gonna live a short time)
You're assuming he couldn't (and wouldn't) secretly monitor Walt and Jesse cooking. We know he did that from Victor. This isn't conjecture, we saw Victor successfully perform Walt's cook.
Gus couldn't have gotten that knowledge that if he tried to force his hand with Walt and make him accept Gale. He knew that Walt was too headstrong and sensitive, that he *didn't* have him over a barrel -- Walt had the strength in those negotiations. So he temporarily agreed to Walt's terms knowing that he could keep Gale on payroll, get access to Walt's cook through surreptitious means, and then eventually bring Gale back in the picture for genuine quality control/assurance on this new 99% process.
All of that is exactly what they were spelling out for us, it wasn't made secret at all. It's fine to question Gus's thinking -- he definitely underestimated Walt, and that's how it was written. But there's no hole in the writing there as far as Walt/Gale goes, it's pretty solid.
Gus couldn't have gotten that knowledge that if he tried to force his hand with Walt and make him accept Gale. He knew that Walt was too headstrong and sensitive, that he *didn't* have him over a barrel -- Walt had the strength in those negotiations. So he temporarily agreed to Walt's terms knowing that he could keep Gale on payroll, get access to Walt's cook through surreptitious means, and then eventually bring Gale back in the picture for genuine quality control/assurance on this new 99% process.
All of that is exactly what they were spelling out for us, it wasn't made secret at all. It's fine to question Gus's thinking -- he definitely underestimated Walt, and that's how it was written. But there's no hole in the writing there as far as Walt/Gale goes, it's pretty solid.
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...guess we'll have to agree to disagree, it's all good ... from one fan to another... i never said there was a "hole" in the writing btw, it's just those actions didnt jive to me in retrospect.
i'm not assuming anything, i'm saying at the point in which he allowed jesse to come cook he added a ton of risk only to keep walt happy, but the downside of that decision was not learning walts cook. that doesn't make sense to me from a business perspective...
also, if victor was the guy put in place by gus to monitor walt and learn his recipe killing him would be even less rational... (now noone (other than jesse) knows walts methods)
..and from a negotiating perspective:
gus knows walt needs cash to pay for his health, and he only has a short period of time to live...gus doesn't need walt...(hes already got a cook)
....walt on the other hand needs the money/job, and the clock is ticking giving his condition. (hence "over a barrel")
just my 2 cents...(feel free to disagree)
i'm not assuming anything, i'm saying at the point in which he allowed jesse to come cook he added a ton of risk only to keep walt happy, but the downside of that decision was not learning walts cook. that doesn't make sense to me from a business perspective...
also, if victor was the guy put in place by gus to monitor walt and learn his recipe killing him would be even less rational... (now noone (other than jesse) knows walts methods)
..and from a negotiating perspective:
gus knows walt needs cash to pay for his health, and he only has a short period of time to live...gus doesn't need walt...(hes already got a cook)
....walt on the other hand needs the money/job, and the clock is ticking giving his condition. (hence "over a barrel")
just my 2 cents...(feel free to disagree)
You're separating Gale and Victor, as if the two hands didn't know of the other. That wasn't so.
Gus allowing Jesse didn't prevent Gus from learning Walt's cook via Victor/Gale. Again, Victor proved that in his exhibition -- and it's clear from Walt's reaction that Victor learned the process cleanly. Everything Victor learned could and would have been closely monitored and checked by Gale (which we know via the Lab Notes and Gale's familiarity with Walt's process and product).
That was clearly Gus's plan, once he had the cook via Victor/Gale, he would gradually remove Walt or simply let Walt die off and have Gale return to his role as Lab Maestro. We got that through the flashbacks to Gus/Gale's sitdowns.
As for Jesse's involvement, Gus's allowing Jesse was a wrinkle in his plan, but in that context, it was a temporary way of placating a testy and terminally ill employee, it's as simple as that. I agree that the Gus that allowed Walt to retain Jesse was inconsistent with Box Cutter Gus, but it was written that way and to me, both versions of Gus are more than plausible, they're absolutely central to that character and his relationship with Walt as the series moves forward.
You're divorcing Gus's decision to allow Jesse in the lab from its context. In that moment, Gus had no idea what Walt was capable of. To Gus, Walt was just a gateway to 99%. Gus's only mistake in his plan was made at the outset: instead of treating Walt like a meth cooker he treated Walt like a high school teacher. Gus's instincts about Jesse were on target, but he was totally thrown off by Walt.
Now Gus knows who Walt is. He doesn't meet with him, and now he double checks the reported product weights where he used to have a gentleman's trust of Walt's methods.
I don't disagree with you at all that Gus is different, but to pose it as those it's an unintentioned contradiction in that character is wrong. That difference in Gus is very intentional, it is key to the development of that character. You can disagree with the choice the writers made, but it was clearly intentional.
Gus allowing Jesse didn't prevent Gus from learning Walt's cook via Victor/Gale. Again, Victor proved that in his exhibition -- and it's clear from Walt's reaction that Victor learned the process cleanly. Everything Victor learned could and would have been closely monitored and checked by Gale (which we know via the Lab Notes and Gale's familiarity with Walt's process and product).
That was clearly Gus's plan, once he had the cook via Victor/Gale, he would gradually remove Walt or simply let Walt die off and have Gale return to his role as Lab Maestro. We got that through the flashbacks to Gus/Gale's sitdowns.
As for Jesse's involvement, Gus's allowing Jesse was a wrinkle in his plan, but in that context, it was a temporary way of placating a testy and terminally ill employee, it's as simple as that. I agree that the Gus that allowed Walt to retain Jesse was inconsistent with Box Cutter Gus, but it was written that way and to me, both versions of Gus are more than plausible, they're absolutely central to that character and his relationship with Walt as the series moves forward.
You're divorcing Gus's decision to allow Jesse in the lab from its context. In that moment, Gus had no idea what Walt was capable of. To Gus, Walt was just a gateway to 99%. Gus's only mistake in his plan was made at the outset: instead of treating Walt like a meth cooker he treated Walt like a high school teacher. Gus's instincts about Jesse were on target, but he was totally thrown off by Walt.
Now Gus knows who Walt is. He doesn't meet with him, and now he double checks the reported product weights where he used to have a gentleman's trust of Walt's methods.
I don't disagree with you at all that Gus is different, but to pose it as those it's an unintentioned contradiction in that character is wrong. That difference in Gus is very intentional, it is key to the development of that character. You can disagree with the choice the writers made, but it was clearly intentional.
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Just saw last Sunday's episode. For the first time in a long time, I'm a little confused/disappointed by the show: the general direction Jesse is heading makes sense, but his house turning into a bum shack doesn't. If they see him clutching wads of cash, what's to prevent them from taking him out? Why just sit there and wait for him to try to shoot free throws with wadded bills into some fat guy's mouth? That whole scene is stupid.
I believe the go-kart track thing, I believe Jesse's despair, but his house is weird. I don't buy that at all. That was a bad writing decision IMO.
I believe the go-kart track thing, I believe Jesse's despair, but his house is weird. I don't buy that at all. That was a bad writing decision IMO.
[quote name='antlp89']Just saw episode 4.
My take on the ending:
[/QUOTE]
Hmm, I think capping him is a lot more likely than rehab. I would think that Gus/Mike know by now that Jesse is way past the point where behavior modification is possible. Mike's tour of Jesse's pad should've been evidence of that, it ends with Jesse emphatically stating that he doesn't give a shit about anything. Mike knows Jesse is in full-on self-destruct mode.
Knowing how this show is, and how they like to shoot the show, with lots of long shots and open spaces, I'm guessing that Mike isn't taking Jesse to Disneyland or anything even remotely populated. It'll be Bumble, NM, some big, semiarid desert expanse.
In addition, my personal hope is that Mike's time with Jesse will provide a little more detail on Mike's reaction to Gus in the premiere. We know that it's a matter of time before Mike "turns" somehow. I'm thankful he didn't do as some people wanted and "turn" in buddying up with Walt. (Mike's KO of Walt is my favorite scene so far of this season, his reaction just felt so right.)
However, I understand why people wanted the pairing up of Mike-Walt, they knew that the camera dwelled on Mike's reaction too long not for it to lead to something. I'm hoping Jesse does something to get Mike to chatting about it.
My take on the ending:
They're taking Jesse to a rehab clinic.
No way they kill him off.
No way they kill him off.
Hmm, I think capping him is a lot more likely than rehab. I would think that Gus/Mike know by now that Jesse is way past the point where behavior modification is possible. Mike's tour of Jesse's pad should've been evidence of that, it ends with Jesse emphatically stating that he doesn't give a shit about anything. Mike knows Jesse is in full-on self-destruct mode.
Knowing how this show is, and how they like to shoot the show, with lots of long shots and open spaces, I'm guessing that Mike isn't taking Jesse to Disneyland or anything even remotely populated. It'll be Bumble
, NM, some big, semiarid desert expanse.In addition, my personal hope is that Mike's time with Jesse will provide a little more detail on Mike's reaction to Gus in the premiere. We know that it's a matter of time before Mike "turns" somehow. I'm thankful he didn't do as some people wanted and "turn" in buddying up with Walt. (Mike's KO of Walt is my favorite scene so far of this season, his reaction just felt so right.)
However, I understand why people wanted the pairing up of Mike-Walt, they knew that the camera dwelled on Mike's reaction too long not for it to lead to something. I'm hoping Jesse does something to get Mike to chatting about it.
I just watched tonight's episode and even though the show is paced differently this season I still love it. I am having one HUGE "problem" with the show this season tho, Skyler is too fat... I don't want to sound like an asshole but the weght difference from the previous seasons just bothers me. I had the same problem with Quinn from Dexter. Every time I saw Quinn on the screen I couldn't help but think about the weight he has lost. I don't understand why in these two shows where their new seasons picked up right after the last one the people involved in the shows don't try to do something about it.
Eh, she's fat, she's skinny, I really couldn't give a shit. I don't think it takes away from the story at all. They could have a hand puppet playing Skylar for all I care.
I was happy to see that we did get some subtle elaboration on Mike's reaction to the box cutter. Gus knows all. It's got me wondering if maybe Mike's days are numbered. As in that number expiring this season.
We'll see. If he goes soon, I'm gonna miss him, he's an easy character to spend time with. He's like Peter Falk's Columbo that way, how relaxed he is in the scene, it's easy as a viewer to move and think with him.
I was happy to see that we did get some subtle elaboration on Mike's reaction to the box cutter. Gus knows all. It's got me wondering if maybe Mike's days are numbered. As in that number expiring this season.
We'll see. If he goes soon, I'm gonna miss him, he's an easy character to spend time with. He's like Peter Falk's Columbo that way, how relaxed he is in the scene, it's easy as a viewer to move and think with him.
[quote name='dothog']Eh, she's fat, she's skinny, I really couldn't give a shit. I don't think it takes away from the story at all. They could have a hand puppet playing Skylar for all I care.
I was happy to see that we did get some subtle elaboration on Mike's reaction to the box cutter. Gus knows all. It's got me wondering if maybe Mike's days are numbered. As in that number expiring this season.
We'll see. If he goes soon, I'm gonna miss him, he's an easy character to spend time with. He's like Peter Falk's Columbo that way, how relaxed he is in the scene, it's easy as a viewer to move and think with him.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't take from the story but every time I see her I can't help but think "hmm...she gained some weight"...
The box cutter scene was AMAZING!
Mike is one of the most interesting characters in the show. I liked the episode where they showed him going to visit his daughter. I will be sad to see him go but I think he is going to have to die and I know he will go out in some amazing scene.
I was happy to see that we did get some subtle elaboration on Mike's reaction to the box cutter. Gus knows all. It's got me wondering if maybe Mike's days are numbered. As in that number expiring this season.
We'll see. If he goes soon, I'm gonna miss him, he's an easy character to spend time with. He's like Peter Falk's Columbo that way, how relaxed he is in the scene, it's easy as a viewer to move and think with him.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't take from the story but every time I see her I can't help but think "hmm...she gained some weight"...
The box cutter scene was AMAZING!
Mike is one of the most interesting characters in the show. I liked the episode where they showed him going to visit his daughter. I will be sad to see him go but I think he is going to have to die and I know he will go out in some amazing scene.
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honestly (hate to say it) but i'm not liking whats going on here this season with the writing.
last week (end of episode) mike and jesse in the car... jesse is all quiet, doesn't know or care where he's going. mike asks him "don't you want to know where we are going"... jesse "nope".
this week jesse can't keep his blowhole shut, and mike suddenly is mum on what's going on.
last week walt is suggesting to saul that jesse is a loose end and he may need to do something to get rid of him.
this week, we are to believe walt is going to confront gus in broad daylight with a gun about jesse?
the whole thing where walter brazenly/drunkenly suggesting that "heisenburg" is alive to hank... seems completely out of character from last episode alone. drunk or not, he was shitting bricks about hank before.
the writing just seems less tight in general this season... still love the show, but... the characters actions and motivations don't match from episode to episode. (i'm all for having a character arc, but having characters change this dramatically for no apparent reason is what i'm not liking)
fwiw i'm glad the show is getting the attention it deserves for the last 3 seasons, but imho this season doesn't hold a candle to the last 3 which i'd consider the best tv ever made.
last week (end of episode) mike and jesse in the car... jesse is all quiet, doesn't know or care where he's going. mike asks him "don't you want to know where we are going"... jesse "nope".
this week jesse can't keep his blowhole shut, and mike suddenly is mum on what's going on.
last week walt is suggesting to saul that jesse is a loose end and he may need to do something to get rid of him.
this week, we are to believe walt is going to confront gus in broad daylight with a gun about jesse?
the whole thing where walter brazenly/drunkenly suggesting that "heisenburg" is alive to hank... seems completely out of character from last episode alone. drunk or not, he was shitting bricks about hank before.
the writing just seems less tight in general this season... still love the show, but... the characters actions and motivations don't match from episode to episode. (i'm all for having a character arc, but having characters change this dramatically for no apparent reason is what i'm not liking)
fwiw i'm glad the show is getting the attention it deserves for the last 3 seasons, but imho this season doesn't hold a candle to the last 3 which i'd consider the best tv ever made.
Breaking Bad has long been the best show on TV. Vince Gillian is the most brilliant director to ever grace cable TV! His music choices are always spot on, his cinematography is unrivaled... even by silver screen directors. His casting is brilliant, every character to grace that show spurs some sort emotion from you. I have been with this show since day one, and i will continue to watch religiously! But i didn't see it anywhere on here... there have been reports of next season being the last season... AMC says they can't afford to fund it any longer, if that really happens i will never watch another show on that station! Or wait, i don't watch any show but that on that channel...
This season has been fantastic so far... to anyone who thought they would kill off Jesse... you guys are truly stupid!!!!! Not only is he the character that most personally gravitate toward, he is a vital vital vital part to that show. Only way i could ever see this show ending would be for both Walt and Jesse to be killed, to leave it open ended would leave to much to hope for... if we only do get ONE more season, we will see a huge season cliff hanger this season with either Jesse being held at gun point.. or Walts family held at gun point. But anyway, the next time on Sundays episode made me feel really TB (Tight Butthole), for those of you who don't watch Workaholics.
This season has been fantastic so far... to anyone who thought they would kill off Jesse... you guys are truly stupid!!!!! Not only is he the character that most personally gravitate toward, he is a vital vital vital part to that show. Only way i could ever see this show ending would be for both Walt and Jesse to be killed, to leave it open ended would leave to much to hope for... if we only do get ONE more season, we will see a huge season cliff hanger this season with either Jesse being held at gun point.. or Walts family held at gun point. But anyway, the next time on Sundays episode made me feel really TB (Tight Butthole), for those of you who don't watch Workaholics.
[quote name='continuegaming']honestly (hate to say it) but i'm not liking whats going on here this season with the writing.
last week (end of episode) mike and jesse in the car... jesse is all quiet, doesn't know or care where he's going. mike asks him "don't you want to know where we are going"... jesse "nope".
this week jesse can't keep his blowhole shut, and mike suddenly is mum on what's going on.
last week walt is suggesting to saul that jesse is a loose end and he may need to do something to get rid of him.
this week, we are to believe walt is going to confront gus in broad daylight with a gun about jesse?
the whole thing where walter brazenly/drunkenly suggesting that "heisenburg" is alive to hank... seems completely out of character from last episode alone. drunk or not, he was shitting bricks about hank before.
the writing just seems less tight in general this season... still love the show, but... the characters actions and motivations don't match from episode to episode. (i'm all for having a character arc, but having characters change this dramatically for no apparent reason is what i'm not liking)
fwiw i'm glad the show is getting the attention it deserves for the last 3 seasons, but imho this season doesn't hold a candle to the last 3 which i'd consider the best tv ever made.[/QUOTE]
I think their actions are pretty in character actually. Walt has always had this "thing" where he hated that he was not given credit for his work. I think the writers made it very clear in Season 1 and 2 that Walter "loved" cooking meth. In previous seasons we have seen Walt and Jesse both do drastic things that seem to come out of nowhere. Remember
I think part of the show is all the irrational and complicated choices the different characters make, sometimes in an instant, for no apparent reason.
last week (end of episode) mike and jesse in the car... jesse is all quiet, doesn't know or care where he's going. mike asks him "don't you want to know where we are going"... jesse "nope".
this week jesse can't keep his blowhole shut, and mike suddenly is mum on what's going on.
last week walt is suggesting to saul that jesse is a loose end and he may need to do something to get rid of him.
this week, we are to believe walt is going to confront gus in broad daylight with a gun about jesse?
the whole thing where walter brazenly/drunkenly suggesting that "heisenburg" is alive to hank... seems completely out of character from last episode alone. drunk or not, he was shitting bricks about hank before.
the writing just seems less tight in general this season... still love the show, but... the characters actions and motivations don't match from episode to episode. (i'm all for having a character arc, but having characters change this dramatically for no apparent reason is what i'm not liking)
fwiw i'm glad the show is getting the attention it deserves for the last 3 seasons, but imho this season doesn't hold a candle to the last 3 which i'd consider the best tv ever made.[/QUOTE]
I think their actions are pretty in character actually. Walt has always had this "thing" where he hated that he was not given credit for his work. I think the writers made it very clear in Season 1 and 2 that Walter "loved" cooking meth. In previous seasons we have seen Walt and Jesse both do drastic things that seem to come out of nowhere. Remember
When Walt tried to solve the problem with Jesse and the guys that killed his friend and he ended up killing those two guys. After that he didn't want to kill Gale
[quote name='eliter1']I think their actions are pretty in character actually. Walt has always had this "thing" where he hated that he was not given credit for his work.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, I think of anything Walt's done, this is about as "in character" as it gets. Walt's a self-obsessed dickweed, that wine scene was spot on. The fact that continuegaming would call that scene out as being "off" is an indicator that maybe his other complaints are off.
Such as -- for starters -- Mike was "suddenly mum" around Jesse because he doesn't like the arrangement any more than Jesse does. Mike's still clearly sore about Victor's demise and then being told to allow Jesse to temporarily take Victor's place. He's in a similar position to Walt, where the job is to do as you're told by Gus, but Mike isn't a moron the way that Walt is.
I don't think it's fair to pass judgement on the writing in the way that continuegaming has when we're only midway through the season, give them a full 12 or 13 episodes before writing things off.
Again, the wine scene was exactly what this show is supposed to be, it was great. For as smart as he is, Walt will never learn.
Agreed, I think of anything Walt's done, this is about as "in character" as it gets. Walt's a self-obsessed dickweed, that wine scene was spot on. The fact that continuegaming would call that scene out as being "off" is an indicator that maybe his other complaints are off.
Such as -- for starters -- Mike was "suddenly mum" around Jesse because he doesn't like the arrangement any more than Jesse does. Mike's still clearly sore about Victor's demise and then being told to allow Jesse to temporarily take Victor's place. He's in a similar position to Walt, where the job is to do as you're told by Gus, but Mike isn't a moron the way that Walt is.
I don't think it's fair to pass judgement on the writing in the way that continuegaming has when we're only midway through the season, give them a full 12 or 13 episodes before writing things off.
Again, the wine scene was exactly what this show is supposed to be, it was great. For as smart as he is, Walt will never learn.
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dothog
metacritic has rated the season a 96 and the tv reviewers only get to watch the first 4 episodes...also, stop putting words in my mouth (again) i am referring to my impression of the writing this season so far... i never said i was evaluating or writing off the whole season.
that's just a dick comment. (no "facts" there)
if he doesn't like the arrangement why did mike ask jesse last episode "don't you want to know where we are going?"... it's about continuity.
slickkill77
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Just started watching this show recently. I love it.
I don't usually have problems with the writing, but one small detail that's cropped up this season is this big war between Gus and whatever cartel is lurking down south.
That cartel has figured out his means of distribution. Gus has acknowledged that he'll do a sit-down, which suggests that they know who he is. If they want to take him out, why not just inform on him to the DEA and let the gov't do their work for them?
Well, maybe they don't want to take him out completely, maybe they want to take over Gus's operation. That would give them his slick distribution operation and his cook and whatever else. That makes sense. But if they wanted to take over his operation, why would they leave that Pollo Hermanos bucket with Tucker & Friend where it could be potentially found out by cops? That would create yet another Pollo Bros/meth link, and that could risk and ruin the entire operation and the distribution and product that comes with it.
So the war doesn't make sense on either of those counts. Right now, I'm thinking either the writing is super lazy or this big cartel is just *really* stupid. (EDIT: Then again, I could be forgetting cartel info from last season. Maybe Gus has something on them to keep them from turning him over to the US gov't. I dunno. I still think leaving that bucket laying around with a couple methheads was a sloppy, risky way of making a point that was effectively made with the hit on Gus's truck that took a chunk off Mike's ear.)
As for the episode and other things BB, the pairing of Mike and Jesse is just too entertaining. Something bad's gotta happen to one or the other soon, it's too much fun to have my favorite characters in the show paired up this often.
That cartel has figured out his means of distribution. Gus has acknowledged that he'll do a sit-down, which suggests that they know who he is. If they want to take him out, why not just inform on him to the DEA and let the gov't do their work for them?
Well, maybe they don't want to take him out completely, maybe they want to take over Gus's operation. That would give them his slick distribution operation and his cook and whatever else. That makes sense. But if they wanted to take over his operation, why would they leave that Pollo Hermanos bucket with Tucker & Friend where it could be potentially found out by cops? That would create yet another Pollo Bros/meth link, and that could risk and ruin the entire operation and the distribution and product that comes with it.
So the war doesn't make sense on either of those counts. Right now, I'm thinking either the writing is super lazy or this big cartel is just *really* stupid. (EDIT: Then again, I could be forgetting cartel info from last season. Maybe Gus has something on them to keep them from turning him over to the US gov't. I dunno. I still think leaving that bucket laying around with a couple methheads was a sloppy, risky way of making a point that was effectively made with the hit on Gus's truck that took a chunk off Mike's ear.)
As for the episode and other things BB, the pairing of Mike and Jesse is just too entertaining. Something bad's gotta happen to one or the other soon, it's too much fun to have my favorite characters in the show paired up this often.
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[quote name='dothog']I don't usually have problems with the writing, but one small detail that's cropped up this season is this big war between Gus and whatever cartel is lurking down south.
That cartel has figured out his means of distribution. Gus has acknowledged that he'll do a sit-down, which suggests that they know who he is. If they want to take him out, why not just inform on him to the DEA and let the gov't do their work for them?
Well, maybe they don't want to take him out completely, maybe they want to take over Gus's operation. That would give them his slick distribution operation and his cook and whatever else. That makes sense. But if they wanted to take over his operation, why would they leave that Pollo Hermanos bucket with Tucker & Friend where it could be potentially found out by cops? That would create yet another Pollo Bros/meth link, and that could risk and ruin the entire operation and the distribution and product that comes with it.
So the war doesn't make sense on either of those counts. Right now, I'm thinking either the writing is super lazy or this big cartel is just *really* stupid.
As for the episode and other things BB, the pairing of Mike and Jesse is just too entertaining. Something bad's gotta happen to one or the other soon, it's too much fun to have my favorite characters in the show paired up this often.[/QUOTE]
There's also the "honor among thieves" aspect in that just because they have beef with Gus doesn't mean they're going to help American law enforcement in any way, shape, or form. Not only that but using American law enforcement to do their dirty work would make them look weak.
Mike is very similar to Walt in that you know you should hate him but for some reason he ends up being kind of likeable. This show is filled with those type of characters.
That cartel has figured out his means of distribution. Gus has acknowledged that he'll do a sit-down, which suggests that they know who he is. If they want to take him out, why not just inform on him to the DEA and let the gov't do their work for them?
Well, maybe they don't want to take him out completely, maybe they want to take over Gus's operation. That would give them his slick distribution operation and his cook and whatever else. That makes sense. But if they wanted to take over his operation, why would they leave that Pollo Hermanos bucket with Tucker & Friend where it could be potentially found out by cops? That would create yet another Pollo Bros/meth link, and that could risk and ruin the entire operation and the distribution and product that comes with it.
So the war doesn't make sense on either of those counts. Right now, I'm thinking either the writing is super lazy or this big cartel is just *really* stupid.
As for the episode and other things BB, the pairing of Mike and Jesse is just too entertaining. Something bad's gotta happen to one or the other soon, it's too much fun to have my favorite characters in the show paired up this often.[/QUOTE]
There's also the "honor among thieves" aspect in that just because they have beef with Gus doesn't mean they're going to help American law enforcement in any way, shape, or form. Not only that but using American law enforcement to do their dirty work would make them look weak.
Mike is very similar to Walt in that you know you should hate him but for some reason he ends up being kind of likeable. This show is filled with those type of characters.
[quote name='RedvsBlue']There's also the "honor among thieves" aspect in that just because they have beef with Gus doesn't mean they're going to help American law enforcement in any way, shape, or form. Not only that but using American law enforcement to do their dirty work would make them look weak.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's certainly possible. Leaving that bucket out like that still seems dumb then. I'll just have to let it go.
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Mike is very similar to Walt in that you know you should hate him but for some reason he ends up being kind of likeable. This show is filled with those type of characters.[/QUOTE]
The gray characters (as opposed to black/white) are a lot of fun. That's part of why I'm hoping that Gus becomes a bit grayer through this Mike/Jesse thing, because after that first episode Gus was clearly a "bad guy" (relative to Walt's position).
I've always been interested in Walt but I've never "liked" his character in the way I do Jesse, Saul, or Mike. I think the writers want that, they want me to squirm when Walt does the dipshit stuff he does. It's a great show. I'm really excited to see where this season goes.
Yeah, that's certainly possible. Leaving that bucket out like that still seems dumb then. I'll just have to let it go.
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Mike is very similar to Walt in that you know you should hate him but for some reason he ends up being kind of likeable. This show is filled with those type of characters.[/QUOTE]
The gray characters (as opposed to black/white) are a lot of fun. That's part of why I'm hoping that Gus becomes a bit grayer through this Mike/Jesse thing, because after that first episode Gus was clearly a "bad guy" (relative to Walt's position).
I've always been interested in Walt but I've never "liked" his character in the way I do Jesse, Saul, or Mike. I think the writers want that, they want me to squirm when Walt does the dipshit stuff he does. It's a great show. I'm really excited to see where this season goes.
bread's done