CAG PSN Gaming Group [ ]

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[quote name='The Mana Knight']CoD4/GTAIV (multi-platform games most 360 owners probably avoided the PS3 version on) will be Wednesday.
[/quote]

:whistle2:#
Seriously... what did you do with TMK?
First, Wipeout only once a month, now you're saying the 360 is superior!
fainting.gif
 
[quote name='mguiddy']:whistle2:#
Seriously... what did you do with TMK?
First, Wipeout only once a month, now you're saying the 360 is superior!
fainting.gif
[/QUOTE]

:lol:
 
I didn't want to bog down the COD4 thread with a post that seems more fitting in the PSN gaming group thread. So, I post this here. :mrgreen:

[quote name='Kandal']I'm grabbing COD: WAW for PS3 due to my dedication solely to Playstation 3 only. I can't really compare the two platform but, I can sure suggest you GET the PS3 version instead. Why you may ask? So we can play together =)[/quote]


Hehehe... ;) I am thinking about spreading out what titles I play on which consoles.

Considering the 360's built out of wafers, I may just get 360 exclusive titles (Gears 2, Fable 2, Left 4 Dead), and pick up everything else on the PS3 (Fallout 3, World at War, Legendary, Mirror's Edge, Far Cry 2, etc.). :whistle2:k

I may end up skipping Gears 2 because Resistance 2 is released days before and, outside of some aspects of the multiplayer, I didn't particularly enjoy the first title.

And really, let's face it, the remainder of 2008 will be filled with a lot of games, and if I am gaming that often, I'd rather do it on a stable, reliable console.

Plus, Killzone 2, DC Universe Online, and what-ever-title-is-finalized-for-MAG all appeal to my tastes. :drool:

I guess what I'm saying is that I look forward to spending more time with the PS3 and you all in the future. :wave:

This Wednesday, when I will finally get a PS3, cannot come soon enough.
 
[quote name='mguiddy']:whistle2:#
Seriously... what did you do with TMK?
First, Wipeout only once a month, now you're saying the 360 is superior!
fainting.gif
[/QUOTE]I sent you a PSN message explaining. ;)

[quote name='Chase']

Hehehe... ;) I am thinking about spreading out what titles I play on which consoles.

Considering the 360's built out of wafers, I may just get 360 exclusive titles (Gears 2, Fable 2, Left 4 Dead), and pick up everything else on the PS3 (Fallout 3, World at War, Legendary, Mirror's Edge, Far Cry 2, etc.). :whistle2:k

I may end up skipping Gears 2 because Resistance 2 is released days before and, outside of some aspects of the multiplayer, I didn't particularly enjoy the first title.

And really, let's face it, the remainder of 2008 will be filled with a lot of games, and if I am gaming that often, I'd rather do it on a stable, reliable console.

Plus, Killzone 2, DC Universe Online, and what-ever-title-is-finalized-for-MAG all appeal to my tastes. :drool:

I guess what I'm saying is that I look forward to spending more time with the PS3 and you all in the future. :wave:

This Wednesday, when I will finally get a PS3, cannot come soon enough.[/QUOTE]TBH, I would think Fallout 3 would be a game you probably wouldn't want to get the PS3 version for, but the rest seem fine (mostly because it seems that its devs are giving it crap support already).

Anyway, definitely sign up for CAG PSN gaming once you get your PS3 and multi-player games. ;)
 
[quote name='Chase']Ah! Thanks for the note about Fallout 3. I hadn't heard. :whistle2:k

Thanks! :mrgreen:[/quote]

I believe the 360 was the lead platform for fallout3
 
Most of my online gaming is with the 360 and the voice chat always works. I just assumed that the PS3 versions were just as good. I only play Warhawk, and SOCOM on the PS3 online although I do seem to remember voice chat working in both GTA IV (PS3) and MGO.
 
[quote name='Zyzomys']Most of my online gaming is with the 360 and the voice chat always works. I just assumed that the PS3 versions were just as good. I only play Warhawk, and SOCOM on the PS3 online although I do seem to remember voice chat working in both GTA IV (PS3) and MGO.[/QUOTE]Well, the thing is on 360, MS already provides the code for developers when it comes to voicechat. On PS3, developers have to write the code themselves to implement it. That sometimes explains why results vary and why some games may not have it in its first installment (some early PS3 games lacked it).

Anyway, I'll also let everyone know that I'm very tempted to buy a basketball game, because basketball is my favorite sport and I tend to play the demos a lot. If I do, I might start an NBA league, but we'll see. However, I have absolutely no idea whether I'm going with NBA 2k9 (usually I prefer 2k basketball, definitely last year), NBA Live 09 (I like the demo on PS3 and I was an NBA Live fan at one point), or NBA 09 The Inside (It's finally having the life mode along with having a bunch of PS3 specific features like trophies; however, I didn't like NBA 08 (but liked 07 more despite some issues)).

Update:

Schedule
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------​
Sunday
Grand Theft Auto IV @ 9pm EST
-Fat Princess (if it comes this year)

Monday
Unreal Tournament 3 @ 9pm EST

Tuesday
Burnout Paradise @ 9pm EST (Even days)
Wipeout HD @ 9pm EST (Odd days)
MotorStorm: Pacific Rift @ 9pm EST (We'll see how the other two games do first, if one decreases big time, it replaces one or both. If Burnout and Wipeout are successes, I'll move MotorStorm 2 to Sunday or Monday)

Wednesday
Call of Duty 4 or World At War @ 8pm EST (Even days)

Thursday
Resistance 2 @ 9pm or 10pm EST (if Gears 2 is Wednesday, I might swap for Thursday. Or it might even be Saturday)

Friday
Warhawk @ 10pm EST (Main night. We'll have another Warhawk night mixed in most likely)

Saturday
SOCOM: Confrontation @ 8pm EST (Can be earlier or later. Might be swapped with R2)
-Warhawk (2nd night) 10pm EST

Individual Games:
Buzz Quiz TV
Guitar Hero: World Tour
Little Big Planet
Madden NFL 09 (taken care of)
Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe
NBA Basketball (either 2k9, Live 09, or 09 The Inside)
NHL 09 (taken care of)
Rock Band 2
Saints Row 2
Soccer League (if there is interests)
Soul Calibur IV

I decided to make it a rule that in order for a game to have a main CAG night, it has to be at least 8 player multi-player. Games which support 4 players or less online, or even sports games will be on a small group basis. Match making threads are definitely allowed to match people, but there won't be main CAG nights for them, I decided. If people want to object, just let me know (if Saint's Row 2 supports more people and people want it, I can bump it to the main list). I will either do match making for smaller games one of three ways:
-Keep it on an individual game cases (not including sports here, but have a separate thread for each game)
-Have one main match making thread.
-Keep match making in this thread, but put a link to my post keeping track of it in this thread (I'd tell people what they need to do for each game).
 
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To let everyone know, here's the current schedule this week:

Schedule
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------​
Sunday
Grand Theft Auto IV @ 9pm EST

Monday
Unreal Tournament 3 @ 9pm EST

Tuesday
Burnout Paradise @ 9pm EST
Wipeout HD @ 9pm EST (For Those who can play)

Wednesday
Call of Duty 4 @ 8pm EST (Even days)

Thursday
Burnout Paradise @ 9pm EST
Wipeout HD @ 9pm EST (For Those who can play)

Friday
Warhawk @ 10pm EST

Saturday
Warhawk @ 10pm EST

Since I own Buzz and many others, we can maybe see about doing something; however, since it supports only 4 people at once I believe, it might be best to schedule with friends instead.

Wipeout HD is in StrandedBrit's hands, but we may not have official CAG nights until a patch is released.
 
Seeing as I know a lot of people who have Wipeout HD and Burnout Paradise to those people want to keep it as it is or maybe have them staggered like one @ 9 and one at 10?
 
[quote name='StrandedBrit']Seeing as I know a lot of people who have Wipeout HD and Burnout Paradise to those people want to keep it as it is or maybe have them staggered like one @ 9 and one at 10?[/QUOTE]I just want to let people pick and choose for now. Normally, it would be Wipeout one night, and Burnout the other, but due to SOME people not being able to play Wipeout at all right logged in their PSN account (like me), I just went ahead and put both. I understand most have both games, but I decided to have both of them up and running. However, the times I have them start at are not final at all (only place holders).

And since both games only hold 8 at a time (to a point we may need more than one host), I'll just try to split people up that way.
 
PSN Name: JAlbertL
CAG Name: jalopez86
Nickname: Albert
Headset: YES
Keyboard: No
USB Camera: Yes
Play Style: Recreation
Time Zone: Central
Days, Time Available: Any day after 10 p.m.
PS3 Online Multi-player Games Owned: Burnout, SCIV, UTIII, Hot Shots, Warhawk, FIFA 08, PES 2008, GTA
Current Favorite Multi-player Game: Burnout, SCIV, Hot Shots
Most Anticipated Multi-player Game in 2008: FIFA 09, PES 2009
Favorite genres to play online: Sports and racing

Thanks.
 
I got the list updated.

And well, I'm finally going to reveal, I created the CAG PSN Gaming Group on Facebook several months ago, but only told a few people. If people want to be a member (who are CAG members and CAG PSN members), feel free to join. Those who are administrators of games, I'll make you an officer of the group and say you are the coordinator of a particular game. If people rather I not do that so they aren't known, that's fine, I understand (I will only do it at a request). I must manually approve of you joining the group, to let people know (I did this only because I know who most are, and I want to protect against some who really aren't CAG members jumping in).

Wipeout HD is this Thursday. CoD4, not sure if it will happen tonight, TBH.
 
PSN Name: captnstryker
CAG Name: Romis
Nickname: Captn, Captain, Cap, Stryker
Headset: No
Keyboard: No
USB Camera: No
Play Style: Recreation
Time Zone: Eastern
Days, Time Available: Time & Day Varies, pretty flexible schedule
PS3 Online Multi-player Games Owned:
1. Warhawk
2. Crash Commando
3. Unreal Tournament II
4. Burnout Paradise
5. GTA IV
6. Saints Row 2
7. Mercenaries 2
8. Metal Gear Solid 4
9. Call of Duty 3
10. Age of Booty
Current Favorite Multi-player Game: Warhawk, Crash Commando, Saints Row 2
Most Anticipated Multi-player Game in 2009:
Battlefielf: IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey, Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising, Free Realms,
Favorite genres to play online: FPS, Military Themed
 
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To let everyone know, the schedule has updated. Like I said before, there is a Facebook group for CAG PSN Gaming, open to CAG members.

GTAIV is now Wednesday and so is CoD4. Wipeout HD is Thursday, Burnout Paradise is Tuesday. Sunday night will kind of be our odd night, where we'll mix various games for now that need an extra night. If people would be interested in playing Buzz!, we can maybe try to work something out.


Schedule
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------​
Sunday

Monday
Unreal Tournament 3 @ 9:30pm EST

Tuesday
Burnout Paradise @ 9pm EST

Wednesday
Call of Duty 4 @ 8pm EST
Grand Theft Auto IV @ 10pm EST

Thursday
Wipeout HD @ 9pm EST (For Those who can play)

Friday
Warhawk @ 10pm EST

Saturday
Warhawk @ 10pm EST
 
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aight. i work tues. but can start coming back to burnout this winter when ill only be working every 3rd tues. should be good for various warhawk night and wipeout. cya all then.
 
Hey Mana, we've been starting GTA an hour later on Wednesdays, so 10PM Eastern. And I should add, a little GTA4 every week is just what you need to get a perfect score on your driving test!
It is actually the opposite.
 
[quote name='smiggity']Whats up with Socom yo?[/QUOTE]Right now I have it as a place holder for Saturday. Starting at anywhere from 8-9pm EST. Warhawk will move if it needs to. If people rather play on Sunday, I can move it. I will not get the game at launch (but will get it within a month or two), so I cannot really organize anything (it will be up to Nam and Smog).
 
I hope to try and join a Warhawk match this Friday or Saturday if there are still people playing around 11pm CST and hopefully someone can show a noob the ropes ;-)
 
Greetings everyone,

All right, to let everyone know, I decided it might be best to do a survey so I can see what to do with CAG PSN Gaming in the future. I want to know what games I should still keep CAG nights for, what games people will be buying in the future, and other games people are interested in playing. My goal is to improve CAG PSN Gaming and make it better than ever for the future.

I will get around to sending PMs, and such, but I'd greatly prefer people contact me by one of the following methods:
  • Send me a private message back.
  • Send me an email at CAGPSNGaming [at] gmail.com (that's my CAG PSN Gaming email, it gets checked often). I would somewhat prefer email since my PM box may get full at times. Tell me what your CAG User name is too in the email.
  • I would prefer these questions to NOT be answered in this thread (It's for CAG PSN Gaming Info).
Here are the questions I want to ask

1. What PS3 Online games do you plan to purchase from the beginning of October 2008 until the end of March 2009? Do NOT mention games you will be buying on 360 over PS3. If you are undecided on version, that's fine to list it on PS3.

2. What PS3 games are you currently playing online? Does not have to be everyday, but occasionally (meaning you are still interested)

3. What PS3 Online games would you like to play with CAG Members, which came out any time before October 2008.

4. Any other comments or concerns? Such as would you prefer certain games to be on certain nights, certain times, and other things you'd like to see? If there's something you really like about CAG PSN Gaming, you can say it here.

I would greatly appreciate it if people answered these. Those who do not send me a PM/email/PSN Message me, I will contact you via PM sometime.
-ManaKnight
 
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I already sent out surveys, mostly to CAG PSN members who tend to be around the most. Also, people can still sign up in this thread (I know there hasn't been a post in a while). Based on some feedback so far, I might put Resistance 2 on Saturday and SOCOM on Sunday or a weekday, but I'll let everyone know. The main purpose of the survey is so I know what games to schedule in soon, and know what games to not worry about initially. I care very much about getting people involved. :)
 
Hehe, realized I haven't done this yet. So here goes. O yeah I sent you a PM on the survey Mana.

PSN Name:
Synical
CAG Name: psykodelik
Nickname: syn or psy
Headset: Yes
Keyboard: Yes
USB Camera: Yes
Play Style: varies on the mood I'm in
Time Zone: Pacific
Days, Time Available: As of now, late afternoon to late evening, any day I'm on
PS3 Online Multi-player Games Owned: burnout:paradise, Battlefield:BC, Warhawk, Soul Calibur IV, Resistance, R6:Vegas 1
Current Favorite Multi-player Game: Burnout:paradise and Battlefield:BC
Most Anticipated Multi-player Game in 2008: LBP and Resistance 2
Favorite genres to play online: fps, racing and fighting
 
[quote name='primetime']I just picked up Burnout. How do game nights work?[/QUOTE]As long as you are on the buddy list of someone who plays (there are many who play), you can get in. I believe you are friends with StrandedBrit and he usually plays.
 
PSN Name: DarthEmoPuma
CAG Name: DarthPuma
Nickname: You can call me taylor, or puma, or darth. Whatever really.
Headset: Yes
Keyboard: No
USB Camera: No
Play Style: Recreation
Time Zone: Central
Days, Time Available: Evenings, weekends
PS3 Online Multi-player Games Owned: Soul Calibur 4, Bionic Commando, Rock Band, getting Tekken shortly, MGS4, can steal Warhawk from my stepdad, Burnout Paradise, Wipeout HD
Current Favorite Multi-player Game: Soul Calibur 4
Most Anticipated Multi-player Game in 2008: Is Fat Princess out this year?
Favorite genres to play online: Fighter's, FPS, arcade racers, anything really
 
Anyone who doesn't have me and plays anything online or w/e, just throw me a request, it's Inf_Shini

I'll be picking up LBP and Resistance 2 on or close to their launch days.
I also roam scoreboards so if you wanna compare add me for that too ;)
 
PSN Name: Phoenix_Azure
CAG Name: Ecofreak
Nickname: N/A
Headset: Yes
Keyboard: Yes, but it's got a really short cord so I don't use it much
USB Camera: No
Play Style: Recreational
Time Zone: Eastern
Days, Time Available: Most weekday evenings until 11:00 PM EST
PS3 Online Multi-player Games Owned: Warhawk, WipeoutHD, Resistance 2, Metal Gear Solid 4
Current Favorite Multi-player Game: Resistance 2
Most Anticipated Multi-player Game in 2008: That's it for now till Killzone 2
Favorite genres to play online: FPS
 
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[quote name='Inf^Shini']Anyone who doesn't have me and plays anything online or w/e, just throw me a request, it's Inf_Shini

I'll be picking up LBP and Resistance 2 on or close to their launch days.
I also roam scoreboards so if you wanna compare add me for that too ;)[/QUOTE]You are already on my buddy list. ;) I'm looking forward to playing Resistance 2 with you again (like the old days with Resistance).

Anyway, I updated the master list again. I want to thank everyone who sent me back emails and PMs about the survey. It is helping me a lot in the future schedule. I really hope to have an idea by next week.

To let everyone know, if no one else does take it, I'll probably head Resistance 2 night I decided. I just feel I might be the most capable in running a large game like that, so I may just do it.
 
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[quote name='The Mana Knight']You are already on my buddy list. ;) I'm looking forward to playing Resistance 2 with you again (like the old days with Resistance).

Anyway, I updated the master list again. I want to thank everyone who sent me back emails and PMs about the survey. It is helping me a lot in the future schedule. I really hope to have an idea by next week.

To let everyone know, if no one else does take it, I'll probably head Resistance 2 night I decided. I just feel I might be the most capable in running a large game like that, so I may just do it. [/quote]
Oh yea, I know that, just thought I'd give a shoutout :p

I might consider running the Resistance 2 team, I enjoyed leading the pack in the first one, and you know, FPS' are my thing :twoguns:

I've been deprived of CS Source for awhile, so I'm also desperate for some online action :D
 
All right, here is the new schedule I currently have planned


Schedule
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------​
Sunday
SOCOM Confrontation @ TBA (can move to Monday or Wednesday if people want it)
-smaller games

Monday
Unreal Tournament 3 @ 9:30pm EST
-Smaller games too maybe,

Tuesday
Burnout Paradise @ 9pm EST
MotorStorm: Pacific Rift @ TBA (either Tuesday or Thursday, probably alternate it each week)

Wednesday
Resistance 2 or SOCOM @ TBA
Grand Theft Auto IV @ 10pm EST
-smaller games

Thursday
Wipeout HD @ 9:30pm EST
MotorStorm: Pacific Rift @ TBA (either Tuesday or Thursday, probably alternate it each week)

Friday
Warhawk @ 10pm EST
-smaller games

Saturday
Resistance 2 @ TBA
Warhawk @ TBA

Smaller games is for games that support 4 players or less. We'll fill that stuff in on various days. I'm just trying to get the main stuff down. So far based on surveys, only two plan to buy CoD: WAW and one plans to get Far Cry 2. SOCOM and Resistance 2 made up the majority. LBP and RB2 were pretty big also, but I'll figure out a way to handle those games once I get the big games in.
 
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[quote name='Inf^Shini']Those are good days for me for Resistance 2[/QUOTE]The time would be completely up to you. Most likely, Resistance 2 will be twice a week, since most want to play on a Saturday (from surveys I received), but there are some who just cannot play on a Fri/Sat., so that's why I need a weekday.

I put SOCOM on Sunday (to let everyone else know) because I had no request from anyone to make it a weekend game (my original plan). Based on the size, I'm thinking it's best to put it on Sunday or a weekday. I prefer not to do Tuesday/Thursday for large PS3 online games since that's the 360 Halo 3 and CoD4 night. SOCOM can be played on one of those days if people want it (I'll just move one racer day to Sunday or something). Warhawk stays on Friday, no doubt.

LBP will not have some sort of main CAG night. It will just be left up to PSN friends of yours to play together. To find LBP players, I just recommend people checking the LBP thread when the game comes out and check the 2nd post of the CAG PSN gaming.

Speaking of updating, Anyone who has NOT updated their information in post #2, click the :ps3: icon to bring up your profile and PLEASE update, especially if you haven't since July 2008.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']The time would be completely up to you. Most likely, Resistance 2 will be twice a week, since most want to play on a Saturday (from surveys I received), but there are some who just cannot play on a Fri/Sat., so that's why I need a weekday.[/quote]
On Wednesday, any time from 6 PM or after would be feasible for me.

Saturday is just any time after 12 PM.
 
Is there anybody who plays on the CAG nights much later than the scheduled times? I usually can't get online until around 10:30pm CST.

Here are the games I have:
WipeoutHD
Warhawk
MGO
Resistance

Games I'll have as soon as they come out:
SOCOM
LBP
 
With the new High Velocity patch allowing online play, a true league night would be great. Anyone have experience with real league bowling and how scoring works week to week?
 
[quote name='woodcan']Is there anybody who plays on the CAG nights much later than the scheduled times? I usually can't get online until around 10:30pm CST.

Here are the games I have:
WipeoutHD
Warhawk
MGO
Resistance

Games I'll have as soon as they come out:
SOCOM
LBP[/QUOTE]I understand your problem and will look into doing something. LBP and maybe Wipeout HD, I think we can do it later (for people who can't get on until late due to their smaller nature). SOCOM and Warhawk may be a bit difficult. Don't worry, I definitely got your email and trying to see who I could pair you with.
[quote name='Dr. Strangepork']With the new High Velocity patch allowing online play, a true league night would be great. Anyone have experience with real league bowling and how scoring works week to week?[/QUOTE]
Holy crap I just saw the news. I gotta figure out how to handle it first.
 
PSN Name: XxL337pyr0xX
CAG Name: l337m4573rpyr0
Nickname: pyro
Headset: yes
Keyboard: No
USB Camera: No
Play Style: Recreation
Time Zone: Eastern
Days, Time Available: Evenings after 9pm EST, varied times sat. and sun.
PS3 Online Multi-player Games Owned: Warhawk, MGS Online, LBP (Wipeout HD, SOCOM Confrontation coming soon)
Current Favorite Multi-player Game: LBP
Most Anticipated Multi-player Game in 2008: SOCOM
Favorite genres to play online: Shooters, action, sim, RTS.
 
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[quote name='woodcan']Is there anybody who plays on the CAG nights much later than the scheduled times? I usually can't get online until around 10:30pm CST.[/quote]


Me. :wave:
 
PSN Name: Bigd663
CAG Name: BigD63
Nickname: BigD or Daniel
Headset: No
Keyboard: No
USB Camera: No
Play Style: Recreation
Time Zone: Central UTC/GMT -6 hours
Days, Time Available: Weekends
PS3 Online Multi-player Games Owned: Resistance, MGS4
Current Favorite Multi-player Game: none, LBP when it comes out
Most Anticipated Multi-player Game in 2008: LBP
Favorite genres to play online: Shooters, Platformers
 
PSN Name: Elite_Panda
CAG Name: AleetPanda
Nickname: Panda?
Headset: Yes
Keyboard: No
USB Camera: No
Play Style: Casual/Hardcore
Time Zone: Eastern Time Zone
Days, Time Available: Weekends
PS3 Online Multi-player Games Owned: Warhawk, GTA4, MGS4
Current Favorite Multi-player Game: Warhawk
Most Anticipated Multi-player Game in 2008: SOCOM
Favorite genres to play online: Action/Adventure, FPS
 
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All right, I updated the master list.

I added SOCOM to the schedule for 10:30pm EST, as requested by SmogItUp (CAG Smiggity). I'll get more info on how to join SOCOM (for new guys wanted to play with CAG). If you prefer a another time on Sunday to play, talk to him and the SOCOM group. He's the clan leader and CAG SOCOM coordinator.

Resistance 2 will be lead by Inf^Shini at CAG, as the clan leader and sets up the game nights, for Saturday and Wednesday at times.

LBP will be handled by friends. Just add people you like at CAG to play with, and play with them during your own time. It's not really a game you can have a main CAG night for, but it's best to play with friends during times that work out best for you (such as if there's a game night to a game you don't play on a particular day, that may be a good time to play LBP).

Most likely, I will do the same for Rock Band 2, but it might help if we have some sort of match making thread, grouping people together (the experienced and not so experienced, the ones who like various instruments so not everyone playing only knows guitar).

I want to thank everyone for taking the survey. It really helped me a lot to schedule games. It's STILL not too late to take the survey. I just removed it from the thread title due to other important matters.

Lastly, I updated the 2nd post where it now says in yellow who didn't update their profile in a while. I will go through the list, and anyone who hasn't updated their info since March 2008, will get a notice next to their name. I'll give a time table to when they have to do it. If they do not, they will face deletion from the master list since I'm going to assume they are no longer active (those who signed up in Feb. 2008 and before, have the greatest risk of being removed). Not trying to be mean, but I want people who join to add active people to their list, and if someone doesn't seem to care anymore about people know what games they have, than I assume they rather not play online with us anymore.
 
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