Ok, I've avoided the spoiler talk from Alan Wake at the end of the show. I don't know if i want to throw 60 dollars at the game or not though. Is it really atmospheric? Is it a game that people typically not into games would be down to watch if they're into thriller/scary movies?
[quote name='bickle']So everyone should just shower praise over a title if its a AAA title? Regardless of whether or not the person enjoyed it?[/QUOTE]
No. And people shouldn't like something just because it's popular. I have an issue with the inconsistency. I'm not a RDR defender, but AAA titles are polished and in general are in a league above shit games. Ship sank a lot of hours & chose a 2nd play through of a shit game vs. playing a really good game. Maybe some of his bitterness comes from him buying RDR, while the turd he fell in love with was free.
[quote name='flamecannon']I found the RDR talk pretty disappointing. Cheapy can't seem to appreciate any story that isn't slowly and deliberately spoon-fed to him, and Shipwreck spends so much energy looking for the good parts of shitty games that actually good games seem to barely hold his interest, with a few exceptions for stuff like Mass Effect.
Seriously, Cheapy, you always go on about Japanese games like Metal Gear having stories that "nobody can possibly follow"...that's not really true, if you look at message boards, there are _thousands_ of people who can follow and discuss complicated storylines; the fact of the matter seems to be that you aren't very smart and any game that asks you to keep track of what's happening is lost on you. RDR is a similar situation-Marston's character is subtly developed over several hours of dialogue; for the ending to have the proper emotional impact you have to understand who he is, what doing everything he's done has meant to him, everything his son represents to him...overall, more thinking than you seem to prefer from your video games, which is fine, but try to realize that people don't just say it has mature storytelling just because there's swearing in it. And Alan Wake wasn't written by God Himself, the story there is quite good, but it isn't nearly as far ahead of other games as you seem to think. It's just told in a way that's easier to digest for someone like you.
Not trying to bash or anything, I'm a huge fan and have been for the past 110 or so shows, this is just something that bothers me whenever Cheapy starts talking about stories in games.[/QUOTE]
You do not know what you are talking about when it comes to John Marston as a character. He was a cool character that was pissed away due to a lack of development. 90% of his dialogue involved just being pissed about getting the run around or telling people he doesn't want to talk about his past. The only time in dialogue that John Marston stood out was when...
You are confronted by Dutch with that doctor and when when the doc asks him what he's gonna do, John replies that he is going to give him up and watch him get torn limb from limb and after the doctor whimpers, John tells him he is just joking and chuckles.
They should have ditched the honor system and told a fleshed out story, because things don't even mesh if you make John bad. Although I'm really not sure if Rock Star is capable. The over arcing narrative is really weak anyway. The story really only exists in the last part of the game when you get back to Blackwater. None of the characters you meet in Mexico or before the Fort Mercer assault even matter because they never show back up! The only character that was worth a damn was the Sheriff anyway, because he was memorable and at the same time normal.
That said, I was pretty satisfied with the end and how things played out, but I sure as wasn't blown away.The story was paced weird/poorly and the characters all in all were pretty lame. They were on to something with John Marston, but blew it.
As soon as I heard about this Mass Effect multiplayer business, the first thing that came to my mind was an MMO. It would be pretty cool if I can play as a Turian with a scouter like Garrus, but there's no real way of knowing what the multiplayer could be. I'm hopeful that it's a spinoff, so as to not to draw resources away from the single player of Mass Effect 3.
Anyway, I enjoyed this week's episode, but unfortunately I didn't hear the ending because I still haven't purchased Alan Wake. I was a little disappointed that there was no mention of this week's Modern Warfare 2 map pack (at least, I don't think there was). It would have been nice to have thrown criticisms of Activision for having a total of $30 for 10 maps when discussing how expensive Project Natal is rumored to be.
Great episode, dudes. Loved the AW talk. I pray that sells a lot, I want a sequel!
Really surprised with the lack of love for Red Dead, but meh. Different strokes I suppose.
As for multiplayer in Mass Effect, I hope it's something separate from ME 3. I'd hate to see any RPG/conversation aspects be dumbed down in order to make room for co-op, or to somehow balance a multiplayer mode.
[quote name='RichMeisterMan']You do not know what you are talking about when it comes to John Marston as a character. He was a cool character that was pissed away due to a lack of development.[/quote]
So anyone who thought he was a great character doesn't know what they're talking about? Interesting.
I got Red Dead Redemption a few weeks ago, and while I do enjoy the game, I must admit it has some flaws. John Marston can survive a shootout, but he dies instantly when he falls into the water because, apparently, cowboys can't swim, the auto aim is nice, but sometimes you'll end up killing the wrong people and your honor points will go down, and the horseback takes some time to get used to. The story is okay, nothing spectacular, but there are a lot of odd moments, especially during those "stranger" quests. It is a solid, fun game, one that I enjoy a lot more than GTA4, but i have to agree those ratings are ridiculous.
Also, thank you Wombat for bringing back the godaddy.com background music.
[quote name='rogueweapon']No. And people shouldn't like something just because it's popular. I have an issue with the inconsistency. I'm not a RDR defender, but AAA titles are polished and in general are in a league above shit games. Ship sank a lot of hours & chose a 2nd play through of a shit game vs. playing a really good game. Maybe some of his bitterness comes from him buying RDR, while the turd he fell in love with was free.[/QUOTE]
For the record, I was sent both Alpha Protocol and Red Dead Redemption so that has nothing to do with me preferring one game to the other.
[quote name='III MUZZA III']Cheapy please don't mention Australia & or New Zealand as weird. Other then that i enjoy your podcast, hope you make another 200 episodes.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, I think Australia & New Zealand were the only countries/ethnic group/religion/sexual orientation CheapyD hadn't managed to insult by this point.
I love RDR, but I understand why some people don't. It is very much a R* game. The mission structure, the tone of the dialogue, the open world jank is all there. So if you don't like that stuff, you may not love the game.
And the high scores may have something to do with it being a R* game, but that happens all the time. Look at Galaxy 2, it has a 98 on metacritic currently. A 98, for what most reviewers are calling a Galaxy expansion pack. If Galaxy 2 was Super Fred Galaxy 2, instead of Mario would the scores be anywhere near as high? I don't think so. But reviewers can't find it within themselves to score a Mario game below 95. It's impossible. For a Mario game, a score under 90 would be considered a complete pan and welcome the ire of grown men who love Mario.
It seems most reviewers have a score in mind before they begin playing AAA titles. That is why I appreciate Ship's reviews. He is honest and tries to be as objective as possible when he reviews games. As for his love of Alpha Protocol, I believe he said his recommended purchase price was $30, half its price. That should tell you that he enjoyed, but it is certainly flawed.
Love the show!
[quote name='usickenme']True but it goes beyond story... I think the Super Mario Galaxy 2 talk (last ep) made me realize that Cheapy is a " lazy" gamer. Any games that goes beyond point and shoot is seemingly no good. Which is fine but it does mean his credibility is nill with me.
We all have reviewers (or people who talk about games) that resonate more than others.[/QUOTE]
It's ironic that the head of this website and the main character on the podcast is so ignorant to the subject he is supposed to be knowledgeable in. He comes across as so crude & unlikable I can't see how anyone enjoys listening to him. He is definitely the weak point for this site's podcast.
It's too bad because wombat and shitwreck are entertaining and actually have great insight into games. Cheap has nothing to add but shit jokes and crap about his family, how he milks his sites members, and that he lives in Tokyo. Every time one of the guys starts going in depth about a game he always moves the conversation on. That's why I haven't listened to this crap in weeks and probably never will again. I mean, if he died and the show was just wombat and shitwreck I would, but you'd have to drop the spare tire first.
Although it makes perfect sense for you to be reading and writing about a show you don't enjoy, perhaps you can do it without involving my death? Stay classy.
[quote name='CheapyD']Although it makes perfect sense for you to be reading and writing about a show you don't enjoy, perhaps you can do it without involving my death? Stay classy.[/QUOTE]
Well, you don't necessarily have to die. I'd probably start listening again if you quit.
I noticed that the new CAGcast logo has one guy under each word "Cheap Ass Gamer". Right now, Ship is under "Cheap", Cheapy is under "Ass", and Wombat is under "Gamer".
Considering the three personalities, wouldn't it be more appropriate to have Ship and Wombat switch places? Wombat is always looking for a handout and Ship plays a ton of games. Keep Cheapy where he is since he is a self-described asshole
[quote name='retromufc']It's ironic that the head of this website and the main character on the podcast is so ignorant to the subject he is supposed to be knowledgeable in. He comes across as so crude & unlikable I can't see how anyone enjoys listening to him. He is definitely the weak point for this site's podcast.
.[/QUOTE]
I would actually disagree. Many of his insights have been spot on. When it comes to games, there is a difference in taste between him and myself.
By the way, just because someone doesn't like certain games doesn't mean they don't know anything.
[quote name='shipwreck']For the record, I was sent both Alpha Protocol and Red Dead Redemption so that has nothing to do with me preferring one game to the other.[/QUOTE]
aight, you got a free meal and you went for seconds of the big mac instead of going for the filet mignon . Personally, I like a filet or a porterhouse myself.
Eh not the best show ever, especially because i havent played alan wake so you kinda miss out on a lot of it... and am i the only one who was really disappointed that it wasnt a clip show...and does anyone else feel like cheapy is too lazy to go through with actually making one...Challenge extended cheapy, challenge extended
[quote name='Fjordson']
So anyone who thought he was a great character doesn't know what they're talking about? Interesting.[/QUOTE]
Please enlighten me as to what it was about John Marston that was so great. Despite tons of dialogue on his side he had little more personality than Gordon Freeman.
It's one thing to thing to like him but to call him awesome and go on about how the game "subtly" builds him over time in an attempt to make someone look like a lazy idiot is ridiculous.
* Computer terminals everywhere to access a multiplayer training simulator
* Option to play vs bots or players
* Experience gained in the multiplayer simulator affects your single player character
* Fame, weapon accuracy and awareness can be improved in multiplayer
* Reaching certain levels in multiplayer triggers special missions in single player
* Billboards/news in single player game show events that occurred in multiplayer
* You age slightly while playing multiplayer creating a risk/reward scenario
* Aging very slightly decreases run/walk speed, makes you less desirable (i.e. romance becomes more difficult) and increases your chance of ED (creating hilarious alternate romance results)
* Post game content in single player to give you a reason to keep playing
* Stats have an affect on a future game
All you need is a simple deathmatch mode with a couple maps to implement this. If it is successful you can build on it post launch.
I disagree with a lot of Wombat's beefs with the game. I don't think the endings of the subsequent episodes were necessarily worse than the first, I think that it was so new and different the first time, it was impossible for the rest of them to feel as special. I still enjoyed each episode ending and had a huge grin on my face at the end of each one. Having said that, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, so I won't say you're wrong. Even though you're wrong.
About the very end, Stucky is not in the parade. The first time I played the game, I thought the same thing. I thought everyone that had died was back, but it's not the case. Watch the ending video again.
Along those lines, I would recommend even playing the game a second time. There's so much that I missed the first time I played through that shed light on a lot of the things you might think went unanswered.
In the interest of keeping this short, I'll end there. I honestly feel like I could talk about this game for hours. It's now one of my favorite games of all time.
[quote name='RichMeisterMan']Please enlighten me as to what it was about John Marston that was so great.[/QUOTE]
Don't take my original post the wrong way. You said you didn't like him, so don't. I couldn't care less. I just thought it was unfair to say that people who thought he was a good character "don't know what they're talking about".
I liked his dialogue, the voice work, the small insights into his character that are in the game (like when he's approached by a hooker and mentions that he's married). I liked that he had a family and a whole background separate from the game. It was a nice change of pace from earlier GTA protagonists who weren't much more than generic gangsters at the start of the game. Niko in GTA IV was somewhat of an improvement on that, but the family aspect made me relate to John a lot more than Niko. I thought he was likable and seemed like an inherently good person underneath all of his past transgressions.
I liked his dialogue, the voice work, the small insights into his character that are in the game (like when he's approached by a hooker and mentions that he's married). I liked that he had a family and a whole background separate from the game. It was a nice change of pace from earlier GTA protagonists who weren't much more than generic gangsters at the start of the game. Niko in GTA IV was somewhat of an improvement on that, but the family aspect made me relate to John a lot more than Niko. I thought he was likable and seemed like an inherently good person underneath all of his past transgressions.
[/QUOTE]
I feel the same way about the John Marston character - he is very likable. He has qualities that I like. If he were real, I think he would be a cool person to know.
Now, in a literary sense, is he a well-written, fleshed-out character? I don't know, and I don't really give two shits. I enjoyed the Marston character and that's what makes him great to me.
Another awesome CAGCAST guys! Keep up the solid work!
[quote name='CaptNink']I feel the same way about the John Marston character - he is very likable. He has qualities that I like. If he were real, I think he would be a cool person to know.
Now, in a literary sense, is he a well-written, fleshed-out character? I don't know, and I don't really give two shits. I enjoyed the Marston character and that's what makes him great to me.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. There are definite flaws to the way R* tells a story and how they write their characters, but I still liked John /shrug
[quote name='Fjordson']Don't take my original post the wrong way. You said you didn't like him, so don't. I couldn't care less. I just thought it was unfair to say that people who thought he was a good character "don't know what they're talking about".
I liked his dialogue, the voice work, the small insights into his character that are in the game (like when he's approached by a hooker and mentions that he's married). I liked that he had a family and a whole background separate from the game. It was a nice change of pace from earlier GTA protagonists who weren't much more than generic gangsters at the start of the game. Niko in GTA IV was somewhat of an improvement on that, but the family aspect made me relate to John a lot more than Niko. I thought he was likable and seemed like an inherently good person underneath all of his past transgressions.
But that's just me.[/QUOTE]
Where did you get that I hate the character? My original post was directed at someone that tried to over exaggerate how well developed John Marston and the game's story was in an attempt to make Cheapy out to be an idiot.
I never said I didn't like John Marston, and I said that he was a good/cool character. He just wasn't as well put together as this clown was trying to say.
As I already said, I was completely content with the game, and I was down right giddy when...
I got to plug that asshole federal agent that did John in at the end. Cliche or not; I enjoyed the end.
[quote name='Fjordson']Agreed. There are definite flaws to the way R* tells a story and how they write their characters, but I still liked John /shrug[/QUOTE]
...this is exactly what I was getting at with that other guy.
@CheapyD Stern is off this week? Great opportunity to check out the Adam Carolla podcast/show. Teresa Strasser (kind of hot, new mom) and Bald Brian (recent cancer survivor, still slurs) are very funny sidekicks. Check out the one with the legendary Billy West.
You should almost expand your horizons from Stern if just to get yourself exposure on other podcasts/radio shows/whatever. Stern is great though.
Cheapy, I too am not a fan of the 'Galaxy' series and am just tired of Mario-based games. What is the last Mario-based game you enjoyed? I last enjoyed Mario Kart DS--though I didn't prefer to race as Mario.
I loved you guys clearly mixing up Night Springs and Bright Falls. Night Springs is the Outer Limits/Twilight Zone parodies that play on the TVs in the game. Bright Falls is the live action internet mini-series that is a prequel to the game.
I believe Cheapy was talking about Bright Falls but Wombat/Shipwreck were thinking about Night Springs.
Alright, here is what I'm trying to say about Shipwreck. He has a bias against bad/unpopular games. Not necessarily in the sense he will rate bad games higher (which sometimes might be the case), but when discussing a poor game over a good game he'll much rather bash a good game (excessively) over berating the bad one.
I'm sure Shipwreck will give RDR the same if not a higher score than Alpha Protocol. Yet when discussing RDR there is not one positive thing said, yet when it's time to talk about Alpha he's just beaming with excitement.
I just think Ship prides himself on playing EVERYTHING and liking the uncommon title. This is just an observation, nothing serious, no hard feelings. Love the show!
I still haven't gotten over Ships insane bashing of LBP...
On Episode 201 Cheapy read a comment from a first-time listener claiming he was turned off by "the poop jokes" and that it left a bad first-impression. Well, I had the exact opposite experience.
My first episode dates back to 150-something where Cheapy discusses a poop-test trip to a Japanese doctor's office. He lamented on the unwieldy size of the poop tube and how he even got some on the tiled floor. Was it a little nasty? Sure, but with Cheapy's account came a load of humor with a coat of the real prize: honesty.
Keep it up, Cheapy. Your honesty in all that you say about your business to the hole in your underpants is well-noted. And happy 200 to the whole crew. Eff keeping it classy; just keep it honest.
[quote name='Hoffer']I was ready to hit delete 5 seconds in when I heard clip show. Wombat's voice saved the day.
P.S. I hate clip shows. [/QUOTE]
Me too! I almost turned off the show! Im glad I didnt thou, I thought this was a great episode.
BTW, cheapy , I just so happen to have a pretty scandalous picture of the Major and none other then Jabba the hut himself. Surely you can use this to blackmail him to get wombat and ship into the conference.
Seems to me, Cheapy, that you should put a poll up before you do a clip show. I for one don't really care to have one either. And I am sure that you'd rather not waste your time with one if no one wants to listen to it.
This show seems rushed, but it was good nonetheless. Looks like you guys are more synchronized with each other now. Keep it up.
I think cheapy was kinda sad when Wombat almost didn't make it to E3 because he would not have his entourage.
Didn't shipwreck say he knew RDR was the "better" game? But he prefers Alpha Protocol.....big deal....I dont see why people are crying about it....Are you people buying games based on Ship's reviews? Without him agreeing with you, can you not sleep at night?
Great show but I heard you guys complain a lot about how Rockstar can't write good characters. Personally I think Niko Bellic and John Marston are some of the best adult video game characters because they seem like well round characters who have no qualms about killing people they would rather be doing something else. Where as most other "adult" characters just seem like a bunch of flat characters who are either kill happy (like Marcus from Gears) or whinny characters who cry every cut scene (like Dom from Gears). Which adult video game characters (i.e. no Mario, Link, or Sonic) do you think are the best?
This episode is suggesting that they do a clip show? That would be perfect Cheap could make one long episode out of all his awkward shit humor. Sounds like a winner.\\
As a die hard GTA fanboy I will have to agree with you about Rockstar's crappy main character's lacking character. The only int interesting main character has been Tommy Vercetti who was voices by Ray Liotta in GTA Vice city. I do suggest you give GTA IV another chance and try to finish it. I know Cheapy is a die hard Saints Row guy which is a game I tried very hard to get into but always found the controls and animations to be too boxy despite trying it on all 3 consoles it was available for including the PC version. I just can't deal with the free aim. Otherwise the game is awesome.
Also, do you guys find Red Dead Redemption to be really Buggy? I'm finding the game to have a lot of invisible walls, like when I shoot an animal near a tree and I can't skin it because it's "Out of reach" despite it laying at my feet.
I think it was terrible how you guys just dismissed Modnation racers due to the load times... I don't remember you guys being that hard on Metal Gear Solid 4.. now that game had load time issues. (I completed it once, I couldn't dare bring myself to go through that again - I think wombat beat it twice right?)
Congrats to Wombat for the promotion; how about some general advice for us hard working CAGs that's trying to make it to the top.
Hey Wombat, where is the love for Burn Notice? This time last year you where plugging the hell out of it and now the premiere was on Thursday and nothing....
Wombat was right, Alan Wake is not as good as Cheapy and Ship made it out to be. Maybe I should not have played Alone in the Dark because that left a bad taste in my mouth and parts of Alan Wake resembled that horrible game.
Just finished Alan Wake last night (I was a little LTTP because I had to 100% RDR first) and finished listening to the CAGcast this morning. I was pretty disappointed with the depth of discussion on the game. The Night Springs/Bright Falls confusion was painfully awkward. It was also funny to hear Wombat's complaints after obviously rushing through the game. Alan Wake is a game to be savored, not rushed through. There are so many little pieces done right that make the game amazing and most were barely touched upon.
The environments are significantly larger than any other linear game I've played this generation. It's a large risk for a developer to create tons of assets and design space that many players won't even experience but it adds so much to the believability of the world. The extra time and development resources definitely showed.
The atmosphere and pacing are awesome. The combination of music and the use of darkness effects builds a tension that is seldom seen in games. When the music gets going and the darkness is swirling around you, you want to move on as quickly as possible. When it is light out you want to explore the world.
The little nods to Twin Peaks are a great addition to fans of that show. I got a smile on my face when I saw the diner, Rose in uniform in her trailer, red chairs, the Light Lady and others.
The game handles risk/reward so well. Exploring the darkness is usually rewarded but it comes with a risk. I didn't dare to explore when the darkness was really swirling or I was low on supplies. If I was well stocked I would venture out but I would be nervous the entire time.
The manuscripts/TV's and radios all added to the game. I wanted to collect them all which is rare for me. Once I got into the story I listened to the full radio broadcast every time and watched every TV. I can't remember any other game including optional elements that add so much.
The balance in the weapons is so good. Using environmental light along with flashlights, flares and flashbangs in addition to normal gunplay creates a unique and varied experience. Every weapon has a use and it is extremely rewarding learning how to best use them all. The flare gun is as satisfying as any high powered weapon has ever been.
The games not perfect (I had issues with the combat and controls), but it definitely one of the best games I've ever played.
Some additional spoilered comments:
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The police radios in Ransom (episode 3) are awesome. You have to stop and listen to each one as you go. At one point the Sheriff makes fun of Alan's tweed jacket. I suspect Wombat didn't listen to these because there's no way Alan's outfit could bother you after he gets made fun of for it.
How could you not comment on the fact that it is possible that Alan Wake was created by Thomas Zane? Alan's age fits perfectly with this possibility and how else could Zane refer to him specifically in his writing?
Stopping during The Departure breaks up the pacing so that it doesn't seem like you're driving forever. I'd be interested to know if Wombat stopped at the motel and the brightly lit barn along the way.
Did Wombat not understand that the story had to be believable in order to be effective? It is mentioned multiples times. The better the story Alan was writing was the stronger it became. If he wrote in more help it would have been a worse story and given the darkness more power. There's also the point that the darkness was controlling him the majority of the time he was writing the story. He had to break free from the darkness's control to write his escape.
No Wombat, Stucky nor anyone else who died during the game (shrink, park ranger, etc.) is alive at the end. Everyone who died or was affected physically by the Dark Presence (Rose/Nightingale) stayed that way at the end as either being dead or changed by the Presence.
This is reinforced by reading the Alan Wake Chronicles book in the LE that talks about all the funerals for people they've given up searching for 1 year later and the town's/FBI refusal to talk about the events that happened the week before Deerfest.
Also it seems Barry and the sheriff will survive through the DLC. The sheriff gives the only live interview (very brief) to Clay (who compiled the info on the Chronicles 'book' ) and Barry sues Clay to stop Clay from trying to interview Barry about Alan Wake.
Also yeah as others said you guys got mixed up at the end. Cheapy was talking about the Bright Falls prequel series that was on the Web/XBox Marketplace and Wombat/Shipwreck were talking about the Night Springs episodes hidden throughout the game you could watch on the TV's hidden in-game.
Wombat/Shipwreck I think the one you discussed was the best one, although they all relate to what's happening in the story. Cheapy, watching Bright Falls before playing Alan Wake actually stopped me from playing the game at first (I started Red Dead first) because it was REALLY creepy and it just didn't make too much sense to me. I got both Red Dead and the Alan Wake CE at a Gamestop midnight launch and after watching all 6 Bright Falls episodes back-to-back after I got home I put Alan Wake on the shelf and didn't start playing it until you talked about it.
I knew the basic story of Alan Wake going in, but the prequel was such a different tone from the game that it actually discouraged me from playing it, although the series itself was very well done with great production values. The way that series tried to setup the losing consciousness/blocks of time for the writer and the something 'kidnapping/taking people' aspect just didn't draw me in.
Interesting theory regarding Thomas Zane. My thoughts are that Thomas Zane might be Alan's father. The Old Gods called Alan "Tom" in the game (something I didn't notice until my second playthrough. Also, it would explain how Zane knew about the clicker that Alan remembers getting from his mother when he was a child. The explanation would be that Zane wrote Alan and his Mom out of his own life to protect them from what was happening.
Just talking about this stuff gets me really excited for the DLC.
I'm not seeing the big appeal of Alan Wake. To me it plays very similar to the original Max Payne except you replace bullet time with forests. The novel pages feel like they were written by a high school kid. Alan's VO comes off like he's bored and reads a bit too quickly. The gameplay is very repetative and offers very little interactivity. The graphics just aren't that impressive. I will say it has great atmospheric effects and music but that's about it.
wasn't blown away.The story was paced weird/poorly and the characters all in all were pretty lame. They were on to something with John Marston, but blew it.
. Personally, I like a filet or a porterhouse myself.
