CAGcast #225: PS3 Blood Libel

[quote name='drew327']I'm guessing the drop in sales of Motorstorm is because when Motorstorm 1 came out, there was hardly anything available on the PS3, and the idea was fresh. When 2 came out there was a ton of other stuff out.[/QUOTE]

That and it came bundled with the console for a while -- that's how I got my copy anyway.
 
I'm about 45 minutes in so far and I agree pretty much with what you guys are saying about the PS3. I've really enjoyed some exclusive games on it (Uncharted, Uncharted 2, God of War 3, that first Ratchet game, etc.) but I almost never play it. It is a great blu-ray player though. Xbox Live is just better. Even the Netflix integration is horrible on PS3 - they couldn't even get that right. Never mind the fact that the continuous updates are annoying and take WAY too long to download and install... Also, the PS3 controller blows but I've never been a fan since the PS1 days...

Finally, I've been harping on this ever since the PS3 came out but the PS3 does not have an internal scaler for 1080i-only TVs. There are Sony branded "HDTVs" that won't display games in HD on the PS3. I want to play Hot Shots Golf, INfamous and a bunch of others but I can't play them in HD which is ridiculous. I never have to think about buying a game for the 360 but for the PS3 I have to do research to even find out of it will display properly. This is an unforgivable flaw, IMO. Some "true HD" system. What a joke.
 
Hey Wombat, what were you saying about the Ravens before Cheapy started talking over you?

I am a huge Ravens fan but I don't think they can beat the Steelers this week IN Pittsburgh. However if by some miracle they do manage to beat them they will easily go on to win the Superbowl.

My Superbowl pick right now is New England.

Great CAGcast as always!
 
I ask people why they bought a PS3 every once in awhile and their reasons are either "it has a blu-ray player," or "I like Playstation." meaning they are fans of the brand. Since Blu ray players are cheap now, I think Sony will have a hard time selling the $300 blu ray player that also plays Call of Duty games.
 
Man, some Sony fans sure are defensive (I've had one for 4 years, so save the fanboy accusations).

I liked Shipwrecks discussion regarding exclusives and have some observations of my own. I think Sony (and Nintendo) still subscribe to the old philosophy of relying on first and second-party exclusives to sell systems and the large number of exclusives already announced is testament to that.

By contrast, MS has taken a drastically different approach by successfully courting third-parties so that they'll lead development with 360 and possibly have timed DLC exclusives. MS uses their smaller internal development studios and exclusive partnerships primarily on differentiating, tent-pole titles; while Sony and Nintendo believe their first-party studios should fill all the genre check boxes and be the largest sellers in their library.

I think that is the real secret to 360's success this generation. Microsoft's overhead is significantly lower by having fewer studios, risks are lowered because they don't waste early development on titles that don't come together well and third-parties love 360 because they're not competing with first-party titles so much (this is particularly a problem with Wii). While there are certainly benefits as a gamer to Sony having such a large stable of first-party developers, it is hard to justify that economic model - particularly when you look at the time-management issues (delays/feature creep) they've suffered with SOE and Polyphony.

Finally, it's worth noting that Sony always announces titles very early (and then forgets to market them) while MS holds releases close to the vest and announces most just a few months before launch and advertises the hell out of them. At the beginning of every year people say MS doesn't have any good exclusives coming out that coming year and that this will be the year of the PS3 thanks to its exclusives and every year ends with MS exclusives outselling PS3 exclusives 2 or 3:1.
 
So Wombat you go out for cofee with who voices Archer? That is pretty cool, I just noticed that he voices Bob on Bob's Burger and hope he makes a good go of that show. I thought the first episode was pretty funny!

Anyway, I agree with everything CAG discussed about the PS3, I have both a PS3 and Xbox 360 and over and over it comes up short when it comes to convenience for the gamer. I mostly get 360 games so I don't have to wait for the downloads and patches to just be able to start up the game. I also buy movies from time to time to stream and just recently tried to use the Playstation network for a movie. First off the movie was soo choppy that I decided to wait for it to fully download. But by the time it downloaded and I had time to watch it the movie had already expired. I can't believe how slow a paid service is! Never had that problem with Xbox, pay for it, watch it streaming perfectly... I try giving Sony my money but they keep returning a mediocre experience.
 
PS3 has 20 exclusive games coming out this year. (Check PlayStation Blog for the games) meanwhile 360 has only Gears of Wars 3 and Forza Kinect. Get your facts straight guys
 
Cheapy's a little confused about what parts of Microsoft produce most of the company's income.

http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/a...bers-Beats-consensus-but-not-Apple/1288297586

For the the first quarter of Fiscal Year 2011, the Entertainment & Devices division is fourth out of their five divisions:

Q1 2011 Income by Division

  • Windows & Windows Live: $3.32 billion, up 124 percent from $1.5 billion a year earlier (20 percent growth when adding deferral).
  • Server & Tools: $1.63 billion, up 32 percent from $1.24 billion a year earlier.
  • Business: $3.39 billion, up 20 percent from $2.83 billion a year earlier.
  • Online Services Business: Loss of $560 million, up 17 percent from $477 million loss a year earlier.
  • Entertainment & Devices: $382 million, up 47 percent from $260 million a year earlier.
 
[quote name='Wombat'][quote name='Clarke']What have I been playing all this time on my computer if Mass Effect 2, Splinter Cell Conviction, and Metro 2033 are Xbox 360 exclusives?

Naw I'm just messin' with ya.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Oh Wombat.

Oh yeah Super Meat Boy is headed to Mac pretty soon.
 
Sad to hear that with the amazing exclusive lineup the PS3 has this year this CAG episode is just a lot of criticism on the console.
 
I've just started listening... I don't know if I would call LittleBigPlanet a niche title. It sold very well (over 4.5 million according to wikipedia), it's very popular, but it's just not for me. Personally, I prefer platformers like Prinny and Mega Man. The concept of building your own game is neat and I'm sure it's probably going to be very well received, but I'm just to lazy for that.

The demon girl in Prinny 2 is named Etna. I loved Prinny 1, so I can't wait to play the new one!
 
[quote name='shipwreck']Strong argument. Thank you for listening attentively.[/QUOTE]

sarcasm_detector.jpg
 
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I think that Microsoft delayed Gears of War 3 just so they have something else to talk about at E3 except Kinect. Do they have any exclusive for the hardcore fans in the first half of 2011?
 
[quote name='javeryh']It is a great blu-ray player though. Xbox Live is just better. Even the Netflix integration is horrible on PS3 - they couldn't even get that right.[/QUOTE]
Are you still using the disc for netflix? I find the PS3 netflix disc-less app completely usable and fine for playing netflix.

Of the 3 of you I would think Wombat would have most enjoyed Demon's Souls, though as I recall, he was the only one not to try it unfortunately.

edit:
Oh, and Archer S1 is quite a funny show, but it hasn't been available on netflix instant watch for awhile, DVD is out and onsale for $13.49 on amazon though.
 
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[quote name='grognard66']
....

I think that is the real secret to 360's success this generation. Microsoft's overhead is significantly lower by having fewer studios, risks are lowered because they don't waste early development on titles that don't come together well and third-parties love 360 because they're not competing with first-party titles so much (this is particularly a problem with Wii). While there are certainly benefits as a gamer to Sony having such a large stable of first-party developers, it is hard to justify that economic model - particularly when you look at the time-management issues (delays/feature creep) they've suffered with SOE and
Polyphony.

...

At the beginning of every year people say MS doesn't have any good exclusives coming out that coming year and that this will be the year of the PS3 thanks to its exclusives and every year ends with MS exclusives outselling PS3 exclusives 2 or 3:1.[/QUOTE]

Good point about the overheads. Not to mention Microsoft have got people paying for something (Xbox Live) that Sony do (not as well) for free! But with 3rd party developers beginning to release everything as multi-platform do you not think that long term Sony's in-house studios may help become the differentiator when it comes to late in this generation or the next generation?

Examples I would use to point this out are: Halo that has obviously been a MASSIVE success for the Xbox in terms of a console-seller (can't stand the game myself!) But with the release of Bungie from its contractual agreement with Microsoft it has decided to produce multi-platform games from now on. Also Bioware with Mass Effect 2 and the new "Metal Gear Solid" Raiden game-thing is multiplatform.

I'd balance up your argument that third party developers love the Xbox 360 because of less first party titles by pointing out that companies still develop the games for both Wii and PS3 and I think that your statement is more based on opinion that empirical evidence. And yes it is hard to compete with Nintendo's first party offerings but there are the games out there Just Dance etc. And the same also goes for the PS3. Another point is, it is much cheaper to develop for the Wii (causing this glut of shovel-ware) but third party companies must still make money because they carry producing them!

Also another point I would bring up is that of legacy and longevity that Nintendo have is almost all down to the fact that they have their in-house development. Mario sells games. And though Sony has nothing nearly as iconic as many of the Nintendo characters it still has its own stalwart sellers and resources that it can use. The launch of the Xbox 360 was obviously boosted by the fact that Halo had garnered a huge popularity for its gameplay and multiplayer on the original Xbox. Without a legacy system seller like that for the next incarnation of the Xbox will this effect sales? Because I don't think that a game like Gears or the hardware like Kinect has the popularity on its own to sell the next gen Xbox. I would never like to speculate on this for a few reasons. One is to never discount anyone because the next Xbox could sell well on the fact that its online is done fantastically. Another is that Nintendo could aim for a hardcore market with their next incarnation (they didn't have the money or resources to do it this generation BUT THEY SURE DO NOW!) Or even a Deus Ex Machina event like Apple bringing a console to market. The fun is in the speculation.

On a separate point:

(This next point because of most contributors and two of the CAG team being based in North America I guess. It is by no means meant to be an insult to anyone because all I'm trying to say is that geography makes a difference.)

In terms of the PS3 streaming services here in Britain we get the "Watch On Demand" content of our three biggest TV channels free on the PSN these aren't available on the Xbox 360 which only has Sky Player (which you have to pay extra for). I would equate Sky with ESPN in North America but it has movies and (poor quality) TV shows on top of sports coverage. My point here being that the PS3 service here in the UK is significantly better than the Xbox 360. Also the download times and online multiplayer quality has very little disparity between the two services.

Talking about sales figures as well it's easy to look at the North American market sales numbers. But I would like to point out that worldwide there's not the huge gap between the consoles and their exclusives. Though most podcasts and news stories focus on the North American sales figures obviously being based in North America. I'd also say I'm not trying to diminish the significance of the sales figures, it's obviously a bad thing that they are being outsold quite heavily in what is the largest videogame market in the world (North America).

The question I'd put forward to you and the rest of this forum is:

What would Sony have to change to make their system the more viable option when it comes to someone purchasing a console?

I've got my own ideas but I'm interested in what other people would do. Anyway great post, I love speculating about this kind of stuff and I don't really care what happens so long as it's a win for good videogames and good deal for us the consumers. :D

Now I'm going into a dark room to lie down and rest...
 
I don't get Shipwreck's praise of the current Xbox 360 dashboard, as it's a slow, clunky mess of a dashboard that makes it much harder to do anything than it should be. If that's an example of good UI, then Shipwreck has no clue what good UI is. I'd love to see an independent test be done with a random person being pulled off the street without any knowledge of either the Xbox 360 dashboard or XMB to see which interface they could navigate the easiest. I can see some improvements that can be made to the XMB with zero need for a redesign, but the Xbox 360 dashboard has a long way to go before it's a usable interface that accomplishes the things that Microsoft says its system can do. MS promises to fix all of the issues with every update, but usually makes them worse or does nothing at all. At least Wombat acknowledged this issue.

A few of the ads help let you know when there are sales and such, but they are placed on the dashboard in the most confusing places that makes no sense to me. The Deal of the Week is not listed on the Games Marketplace, but the very end of the Spotlight tab. Shouldn't the XBLA release(s) be listed near the front of the Games Marketplace tab and not the end? Though I'd agree that Zeit 2 wasn't exactly released with any advertising on Major Nelson's blog or from Ubisoft, but MS isn't helping their new releases get any attention. I've seen double ads showing up on the Games Marketplace tab and ads for older games that made me wonder whether there was a sale or not, so it can be very confusing to try to decipher why that stuff is where it is.

The XMB is a content-first interface that makes it easy to access my games and videos without hassle while the Xbox 360 dashboard is a service-first interface that puts more emphasis on making all parts of the Xbox Live service accessible to you even if you can't easily get to the content. When I boot up the Xbox 360, I'm taken to the Spotlight tab instead of My Xbox where all of your content is stored. Bring up the mini-dashboard and you see a quick service update of friends online, message, and all that. When I boot up the PS3, it brings me to the Games tab so I can jump right into whatever game is in the PS3 or a PSN game, which forces me to go to the right a few times to see what friends are or on whether I have messages or not. The ads are spread all over the dashboard on Xbox 360 while the ads are contained in the PS Store and the What's New icon under the PSN tab.

The biggest difference that I can tell between me and Cheapy, Shipwreck, and Wombat is that I don't have a friends list full of people that play the hot new multiplayer game all the time. I'd make a wager that on the busiest day that maybe a third or a quarter of the people that are online on my PSN or Xbox Live friends lists are playing the same game, which is usually the week of its release. Any given week, most of the people on either list are playing or doing very different things while online since I'd guess that many of them are autonomous players that don't rely on seeing what everybody else is playing to know what they want to play at that moment, which I can easily tell is what Cheapy is all about. So when I want to play BC2 online, I just play BC2 online without waiting for people to play with, so I don't ever use Live's party system or cross game chat and have no real need for it.

I'd be interested in seeing Microsoft overhaul their social networking features so that I can see everybody on my friends list who has played Bad Company 2 and sort by most recent, which would make it more likely to find people that still own and play it. Right now, I'd have to search every single person's profile individually to find suitable players and I'm not putting that kind of investment in just to find some people to play on the random night that I want to play Bad Company 2. I've fallen into a weird space where I'd have to find the corresponding thread here on CAG to find people to play with and that's kind of a failure for Xbox Live right there. The social networking aspects of Xbox Live are really lacking right now since I can't even pull up a Bad Company 2 page with the list of my friends that have played it, which I can do on Steam with a friends activity feed to what each person's played in the past two weeks along with a page for each game to see who's played the game and played it recently.

There is no one system seller for the PS3 at this point. It's the entire library of exclusives and a price drop that is more of a selling point than any single game could ever be. Each game can appeal to different groups of people, which makes it hard for any single title to be able to pull in everybody. Shipwreck just used an old trolling technique by seeing if each game by itself could be the sole savior of the PS3 rather than thinking that the collective group could be a selling point. If Shipwreck wants to pick a single game, it's more likely to be the likes of the next Call of Duty or Madden that would sell systems to the average person.

They have a ton of developers (Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica, Sony San Diego, Polyphony Digital, Team Ico, Sony Japan, Zipper Interactive, Media Molecule, Evolution Studios, Sony London, and Guerrilla Games), so of course they're going to work on the stuff they're good at and not just clones of what's hot right now. If you think they need to cut down on the variety and quantity of games, then they should just take a page out of MS's playbook and fire most of their developers because you can't have all of these teams on downtime or working for far too long on their games while waiting for their turn in the Sony release rotation that you think should only have two or three games a year. Microsoft only has a few developers (Lionhead, Rare, 343, and Turn10) and IPs since they've shut down or sold off the rest, so of course they would only have one or two big games a year that they can put all of their marketing money into.

I'm glad that Wombat can recognize that a random NIS America game won't get much marketing, because it's an NIS America game and they spend tons of money on marketing the next Disgaea game. They don't rely on their niche hardcore fans to get the game without much money being spent marketing to them, as they don't rely on posts on the PS Blog, Joystiq, Kotaku, and the many other gaming sites to spread word for them. Nope.

Cheapy has proven that he doesn't know anything about when the PSP2 is going to be revealed. He just says that the next big event is when it'll be revealed, according to his amazing sources, so that he'll eventually be right and can gloat about calling it. Add the XMB redesign rumor and he should never consult this Sony insider again since they've lied to him multiple times.

At least this show was more interesting than the boring game of the year show.
 
I just wanna say as a guy that owns both the ps3 and the 360 you guys are right for me there is really no real incentive for me to go out n buy a ps3 over a 360 one. But what you said about uncharted is also true for people like me who have both or people that are thinking about getting a ps3 this is the only game that really looks intresting to get. Other than that for games that come out on both the 360 seems to always be on top of the ps3 when it comes to how the game plays . And one more thing to say that the reason i got a ps3 in the first place was because i thought at the time the ps3 had better exclusive game but over the last couple of years this has become untrue and it has been sad to see
 
Wow. People sure don't pull punches when it comes to stuff like this do they? Great show guys, but I'm going to have to chip in my opinion about Shipwrecks thoughts on PS3 exclusives. But i'll do it in a way that only few have done so in this thread....without insults or rudeness in general.

First Shipwreck, I have to respectfully disagree with your thoughts on Sony's exclusives. I think Sony has tried, and I would argue they have tried more than Microsoft has. Three of the biggest franchises that the 360 has have similar games on the Sony. The Halo, Gears, and Forza each have their respective Killzone, Resistance, and Gran Turismo. Fable is different than anything with it's closest exclusive being Demons Souls, but in the same argument, I would say Microsoft has nothing like Demons Souls. And anyone that has played Demons Souls knows that a game like that is a huge risk considering how frustrating that game is.

Then there are other ones they tried. Infamous mirros Crackdown. Heavy Rain is like no other 360 exclusive, the 360 has no exclusive similar to God of War, no game like Little Big Planet or it's racing version Modnation Racers, and Uncharted is...well...it's Uncharted. The only thing that the 360 has in terms of being on the same level of that would have been Mass Effect, and that's no longer an exclusive. And the same works with Metal Gear Solid and it no longer being an exclusive for PS3 with Rising...eventually...coming to the 360.

So I'm just curious on what risk the 360 takes that would be on par with experiments like Demons Souls, Heavy Rain, or Little Big Planet. Those are niche's, but those are niche's that were never guaranteed successes. I don't see how you can argue that sony is just rehashing their same games but not complain about another Halo or Gears game. I think when some of these people call you out as 360 fanboys, it's because it doesn't appear that you compare them on similar levels.

As for putting out the same FPS's and whatnot, you can't really blame them. FPS's are probably the most popular genre out there. All they need is really one big hit and there's probably a better chance that with some marketing, a FPS is an easier sell than any genre. So with as many FPS fans there are, it's obvious both companies are going to put out more FPS games. 360 is guilty of this too with other games like FEAR, Prey, and Metro 2033.

Overall though, yes, there are a ton of rehashes. But if those games are great, I don't see why it's frowned upon. And unless you complain about the 360 doing the same with Gears, Halo, and others; you will continue to have the Sony fanboys come out of the woodworks and attack you.

As for the "system seller" talk, I would argue that the only system seller on either system would be Halo. PS3 has yet to find one IMO.

So that's probably the longest post I've ever made on this site, but hopefully it wasn't too terrible to read and you don't feel it as a blatant attack on your opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when you went off on that rant, it came off more as you were stating fact.

Just wanted to throw in my thoughts on that subject. Still love ya Ship!

EDIT: Some of the examples I listed may be wrong, but I was going off the top of my head. So if I was wrong when comparing games or saying one system didn't have something that they did, I apologize for my ignorance.
 
Great show, only now I feel like my ps3 is the VHS of interfaces when I use it, I was kinda happy being in the dark on that one having never used a 360 before.

Can we put big macs in wombats fudge, he seemed to be on a mcdonalds kick the whole show.
 
Great show as always, I really liked the PS3 argument. As of now my PS3 serves as my blu-ray player and Netflix and that's because of the HDMI. I've looked at the list of games coming out, and aside from 2 games (Uncharted and Twisted Metal and even that I'm a bit wary of) I just don't care about any of these exclusive.
 
Amazing to hear your disappointments about the PS3 on this episode. The only thing ps3 needs is cross game voice chat. The dashboard who cares, people mainly play games, and Netflix. Download speeds have improved drastically.
 
I got one.... Its a fucking console shut the fuck up fanboi's. Play what you like and who gives a shit. How in the hell do people get so enraged over the fact that the guys find the PS3 the little brother of this generation. Honeslty someone tell me how can, what I assume are, rational thinking people get pissed over a brand? I don't even defend the company I work for that much and fuck they pay me. Can anyone tell me how there life is adversely effected because Cheapy prefers his Xbox over the PS3? Guys they all are soul less corporations who don't give a crap about you, so why and the hell do you care about them like it was your fucking family. OK end rant!

Ship I agree, the PS 3 is just trying to win a check box war by saying we have 20 exclusives this year there for we must be the best hahahah.
 
I know no one will give two shits about my preference/opinion but I was souring on the cagcast for a while now and I think this one was the nail in the coffin. Moving on to Shacknews and their podcast which is superb. Thanks for the laughs over the two years+ I've listened but definitely time for me to move on to a different outlet.
 
Worst one ever...I thought last week was fine but thus week..blah! An irritable/irritated shipwreck is no good. Too much whinny bitching all around. This was the only show with out a spoiler at the end, that I ever stopped listening to before it was over.

btw does gamestop owe you money Cheapy?
 
Wombat, point of clarification:

They put the NES version of Ghosts n' Goblins back on the Virtual Console after a couple of days. Classic Capcom said, Nintendo said. They got caught.

Marvel vs Capcom 3's DLC is going to be characters, not costumes. A lot of characters, too. 2 of which are already confirmed to be on the disc that are part of the Special Edition.
 
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So all three of you "prefer" the 360 right? Is that the general consensus?

So unless you were trying otherwise, you automatically sound bias right?

I don't understand what's wrong with opinions. All the points make perfect sense.
 
Since Shipwrecks argument is strictly financial, i would like to add to the conversation. This is not about what consoles sell but as to why actually sells consoles

Shipwreck keeps telling us that none of the console exclusives are system sellers, which is true, but that is because most console exclusives, on any console, just by themselves aren't system sellers. looking through the NPD numbers for the past few years, there are only a handful of games that they themselves have caused a spike in system sales for that month, even less of those games are exclusives.

North American Console sales typically follow the same trend year after year, January and February starts off a bit higher than the following months, this is because after christmas, many video game buyers didnt get the console they wanted and instead have money, giftcards, etc. so they spend it on Video Games and consoles they didn't get during the holidays, this is the same for both consoles

Then after March the numbers shrink significantly until about September or October. Then the sales rise up again in Novermber and in December the sales Spike even more. Here we should note that many of the triple a titles come out during the last 3 or 4 months of the year and that also influences the spike, but since it is a bunch of games, no one game can really be statistically considered a system seller unless there is no doubt that one game caused the jump, not just the holiday season or motivation to buy.

Now to find what are real system sellers we need to see what bucks the trend and causes a significant spike where there should not be one. If it is a Console exclusive one would expect a jump in the sales of just one console and not both the 360 and the ps3.

At this point i would like to point out 2 titles that on a yearly basis can be considered somewhat system sellers because every year that month sees a sales jump for consoles. Those 2 games are Madden in the USA and Fifa Internationally.

OK so now lets examine the chart and see which games are system sellers

2007 September there is 527k xbox360s sold, double the previous months total, the reason is Halo 3, the first true system seller of the high def generation. PS3 in 2007 has no anomalies

2008 - Xbox follows the standard trend, June PS3 sells 405k becuase of MGS4, the second game to be a system seller. In April GTA4 comes out, but even though it is a huge hit it doesnt move consoles becuase April and May consoles sales dont spike, not a system seller. November GearsoW2 comes out, 360 sales do a bit more than double from the previous month, but ps3 sales almost double too with no real exclusive so Gears is a semi system seller, but i would attribute the holiday season being the reason why gears and consoles sold so well not that gears significantly drove up the sales of the console.

2009- September sony sells half a million, but that is due to no game, but rather the price cut. Same month ODST spikes 360 sales, November Modern warfare 2 comes out, and is 3rd and 4th legitimate system seller.

2010 - Febuary sells 100k more xboxs that January, is it becuase of ME2? no, because the Ps3 also sells 100k more than the previous month with no ME2 type release for it. March God of War 3 is the number 1 selling game but does not effect system sales. Red Dead drives sales for both consoles, 5th system seller. Halo reach is the 6th, And Black Ops is the 7th system seller. One might argue the kinect being a system seller but that would be a product of stellar marketing.

so to sum it up, with so many games coming out if we crunch the numbers, there are only 7 games that by themselves, without holidays and a season to buy can be considered system sellers. Of those there are 2 franchises that hold much of it and only one franchise is an exclusive system seller.

Halo - 3 Call of duty - 2 Red Dead 1 Mgs4 1


So out of the hundreds of games and the dozens of exclusives we can see that not that many games can move systems. So What does. 1 peers, 2 marketing. Think back to middle school or elementary. Why did you play whatever you played, genesis or SNes, ps1 or n64, etc. Mainly becuase your friends played them, that way your could identify with a group and feel good, an added plus was that you could borrow games or play each other at the house. some of you might remember that sick to the gut feeling when you got the wrong console, when all your freinds has the SNES and your mom got you a Genesis for your birthday, so you when you went to school and were ostrisized by your friends. Those same dynamics are what causes the sales of a certain console in a certain region, its why in japan nintendo and ps3 are on top, because everyone has it you need to have that too. Its the reason why Cheapy tells Wombat or Shipwreck to but the 360 version, so they can play online. If Live was 100 times better than the PSN but all of cheapy's friends were on the PSN for the majority of the time, cheapy would buy every online multiplat on the ps3. The same dynamic is why the iphone/ipod touch became so popular, first cheapy had one, then shipwreck, then they made fun of wombat's cheap verizon phone so much that he kinda got one when he got his wife an ipod touch.

My first point leads to my second. Marketing, you need good marketing to be able to get those first few million early adopters so they can tell their friends and their friends and so on. Microsoft did that great, first they got a year head start, and they knew how to cater to Americans, so until the dreamcast, they took advantage of the early lead. And now you see how after a video game commercial most of the time you see that white screen and then an animation that turns into the xbox logo, thats marketing. Its not just one game or two but seeing that animation during game commercials after game commercial builds brand recognition. Its like the SATs dog is to bark as video game is to xbox. That along with enhanced content in the games. Only recently has sony caught on, most notably with the AA joker add on, and the AC2 commercial with the PS3 logo at the end.


Lastly i would like to speak on behalf of the value of releasing these exclusives, Sony is not in dire needs to significantly ramp up ps3 sales to make money, but they are trying to sell the software, software sales are where the bulk of the profit is in the Video Game industry. Using a worldwide scope and the same VGchartz we can see that Marketshare worldwide between the xbox and ps3 hardware wise for the last couple of years is pretty even about a third each. So sony and microsoft are pretty much even hardware wise. So lets look as to why they are releasing these games, to sell software and make a profit.

First lets talk about the games like Ar tonelico Qoga: Knell of Ar Ciel, Hyperdimension Neptunia, and Yakuza these games are developed for japan, where they will be big hits, so since sony has already spent most of the development money on the game, it will cost a few hundred thousand to localize it, so even if the niche market for these games is as small as 50k to 100k throughout the lifetime of the game here in the USA, it still make a healthy profit vs. extra cost.

Second i would like to tell you why resistance 3 and sequels like this are planned even though the second games make less than the first. the first reason is becuase the games are easier to make the second time around, tweaking a game engine and programming code is much cheaper then buidling it from scratch. so development costs are signifganly reduced. Second, even though resistane 2 sold less, world wide it is still a 2 million seller. conserivately guessing each game sells for an average of 40 dollars after factoring in sales in store during the latter part of the game lifespan its still over 80 million gross. Also when a sequel comes out, many people who havent played the orignals also buy the previous ones so it boost sales again. So if you look at internationally it makes sense to release most of the sequels on the list.


lastly i would like to tell you why infamous 2 is being made, becuase the first one is a million seller in the US, and 2 million seller world wide, and because the game was awesome. :D

Source NPD Figures
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_2007_sales_figures
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_2008_sales_figures
http://vgsales.wikia.com/index.php?title=NPD_2009_sales_figures&oldid=11419
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_2010_sales_figures
http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/13108/infamous/
http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/15255/resistance-2/
 
I've not heard the podcast yet so I'll probably change this comment or something afterwards but being an owner of all 3 consoles this sudden view that the PS3's line-up for 2011 is bad is rather odd. I mean yes Killzone 3, Uncharted 3, Infamous 2, Little Big Planet 2, Resistance 3 and Motorstorm 3 are all just sequels but I can hardly see how complaining about sequels to such great games (minus Little Big Planet as the physics just ruin that one) is a bad thing.

I also don't see how a number added to the end stops the game from being a system seller. I know a few people who had no interest in Uncharted but had their heads turned by the sequel. And I seriously doubt people picked up Killzone 2 because they enjoyed the first one (which was god awful).

Not to mention that Twisted Metal and The Last Guardian are rolling out this year. In all honesty it was the 360 I had concerns for when it comes to 2011 exclusives and now I'm just confused...
 
You're overestimating the capacity for any game to be a "system seller". By the time a game comes out, any bump in hardware against the backdrop of the existing base is going to be negligible. The hardware was all bought previously and its difficult to parse out exactly what game in the library the system was bought for. Nearly every game ever sells predominantly to the existing base.

You only get a couple of runaway system sellers a generation. Monster Hunter series for PSP. Wii Sports. Dance Central in the case of Kinect.

I think you should consider the possibility that there is no changing course this cycle. No increase in the amount of hardware is going to change the development situation, even if/when they pull ahead of 360 marginally worldwide. The game or suites of games that you are looking for to salvage the PS3 does not exist. The foothold that Live has in the US nearly makes the titles irrelevant. You're going to buy the system that all your friends have so you can play with them.

The potential buyers for PS3 going forward may simply not exist. The people already in the gaming market likely have one or two machines from Sony's competitors. New people to the market are faced with two $200 options, one that is heavily focused on local multiplayer, and one that is heavily focused on online multiplayer - both cases they'll find that they'll have plenty of friends to play with that have already made the jump.

PS3 is essentially - doomed. I've always thought that there isnt room for 3 major hardware players in the marketplace. The development base as well as the userbase are too divided.

If they cant draw either existing users or future users away from either Wii or 360, then selling loads of software to the base isnt a bad deal. I'm sure PS3 owners dont mind one bit. Making money on software isnt a terrible way to pass time while prepping the next hardware cycle. Taking additional financial losses to get PS3 hardware out there on the cheap is just not worth it. Whether or not their respective install bases are growing, 360 and Wii userbases are also getting loads of software thats relevant to them. Gamers are doing pretty well, regardless of the financial health of the companies involved and the sustainability of the business model.
___________
Alternatively:

2012 IS THE YEAR OF THE PS3. 10 YEAR CYCLE
 
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[quote name='Zen Rukasu']So all three of you "prefer" the 360 right? Is that the general consensus?

So unless you were trying otherwise, you automatically sound bias right?

I don't understand what's wrong with opinions. All the points make perfect sense.[/QUOTE]


I'm just tired of hearing the same complaints year after year after year after year. I like the guys when they talk about what games they've been enjoying and why. Not when they try to diagnose and solve the industry's problems.
 
In the interest of equal time, please rundown the list of 360 exclusives. It should only take 5 minutes.

I would argue Kinect is the only exclusive 360 system seller at this point. It's a good one though.
 
[quote name='Wombat']I don't consider myself an Xbox fanboy, I have a preference, but that is different than outward hate. I have alsways said that I like the PS3, even in this show I said that. If anything the point I was trying to make over the last two shows, is how little it really matters as the best games lately have been multiplatform.[/QUOTE]

Wombat, I don't consider myself a PS3 fanboy either. I actually own both systems and see pros and cons in both consoles. I never claimed that you hate the PS3 system simply because Heavy Rain wasn't to your liking.

My frustration boiled over last Cagcast because I honestly couldn't recall one time outside Uncharted 2 that you guys praised a PS3 game. Exclusives are often ignored, not talked about, and you guys always play non-exclusives only on Xbox even if the game is superior on PS3 (Ex. Dragon Age) Then came the 2010 picks where finally the PS3 can get some recognition and it was only GOW3, a game that didn't blow Cheapy away.

I just want to see opinions balanced out more between the two consoles and at least play the PS3 exclusives. You guys did say the PS3 has great games so I'm satisfied now. :)
 
[quote name='MaskedPlague']In the interest of equal time, please rundown the list of 360 exclusives. It should only take 5 minutes.

I would argue Kinect is the only exclusive 360 system seller at this point. It's a good one though.[/QUOTE]

That isn't the point. The 360 has nothing to prove.
 
You guys were spot on with the Ps3. I love the Ps3 and hope it succeeds. IMO the initial price point tanks the ps3 future. At 500 - 600 dollars people expect more. They should have ditched the blue ray until it was more affordable and included a DVD.

At the affordable price point fans would have move over instead of take a wait and see. They would still be the king today. Sony has no one to blame but themselves and they blamed Ken Kutaragi for the collapse.

Years later does the inclusion of blue ray make that much of a difference in games besides storage capacity? The key words being that much.
 
[quote name='ZForce915']That isn't the point. The 360 has nothing to prove.[/QUOTE]

And the PS3 does? lol ok man...i didnt know the xbox was outselling EVERYTHING!!!! EVERYWHERE!!!!

The question has been asked before and nobody has answered it yet? What is 360s spectacular 2011 lineup? Kinect sports extreme? kinect cooking? kinect drawing? Maybe im overlooking an awesome 360 exclusive let me know. PS3 is fine in 2011, i just feel that this show included 3 360 fanboys(who dont usually sound like fanboys) ragging on a system. Maybe to get more listeners? Idk, I just didnt like it.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']I don't get Shipwreck's praise of the current Xbox 360 dashboard, as it's a slow, clunky mess of a dashboard that makes it much harder to do anything than it should be. If that's an example of good UI, then Shipwreck has no clue what good UI is. I'd love to see an independent test be done with a random person being pulled off the street without any knowledge of either the Xbox 360 dashboard or XMB to see which interface they could navigate the easiest. I can see some improvements that can be made to the XMB with zero need for a redesign, but the Xbox 360 dashboard has a long way to go before it's a usable interface that accomplishes the things that Microsoft says its system can do. MS promises to fix all of the issues with every update, but usually makes them worse or does nothing at all. At least Wombat acknowledged this issue.

A few of the ads help let you know when there are sales and such, but they are placed on the dashboard in the most confusing places that makes no sense to me. The Deal of the Week is not listed on the Games Marketplace, but the very end of the Spotlight tab. Shouldn't the XBLA release(s) be listed near the front of the Games Marketplace tab and not the end? Though I'd agree that Zeit 2 wasn't exactly released with any advertising on Major Nelson's blog or from Ubisoft, but MS isn't helping their new releases get any attention. I've seen double ads showing up on the Games Marketplace tab and ads for older games that made me wonder whether there was a sale or not, so it can be very confusing to try to decipher why that stuff is where it is.

The XMB is a content-first interface that makes it easy to access my games and videos without hassle while the Xbox 360 dashboard is a service-first interface that puts more emphasis on making all parts of the Xbox Live service accessible to you even if you can't easily get to the content. When I boot up the Xbox 360, I'm taken to the Spotlight tab instead of My Xbox where all of your content is stored. Bring up the mini-dashboard and you see a quick service update of friends online, message, and all that. When I boot up the PS3, it brings me to the Games tab so I can jump right into whatever game is in the PS3 or a PSN game, which forces me to go to the right a few times to see what friends are or on whether I have messages or not. The ads are spread all over the dashboard on Xbox 360 while the ads are contained in the PS Store and the What's New icon under the PSN tab.[/QUOTE]

Well said. :applause:

[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Cheapy has proven that he doesn't know anything about when the PSP2 is going to be revealed. He just says that the next big event is when it'll be revealed, according to his amazing sources, so that he'll eventually be right and can gloat about calling it. Add the XMB redesign rumor and he should never consult this Sony insider again since they've lied to him multiple times.[/QUOTE]

Ouch. :)
 
[quote name='HustlerKid']And the PS3 does? lol ok man...i didnt know the xbox was outselling EVERYTHING!!!! EVERYWHERE!!!!

The question has been asked before and nobody has answered it yet? What is 360s spectacular 2011 lineup? Kinect sports extreme? kinect cooking? kinect drawing? Maybe im overlooking an awesome 360 exclusive let me know. PS3 is fine in 2011, i just feel that this show included 3 360 fanboys(who dont usually sound like fanboys) ragging on a system. Maybe to get more listeners? Idk, I just didnt like it.[/QUOTE]They have Gears 3 and thats all I need :D
 
[quote name='HustlerKid']And the PS3 does? lol ok man...i didnt know the xbox was outselling EVERYTHING!!!! EVERYWHERE!!!!

The question has been asked before and nobody has answered it yet? What is 360s spectacular 2011 lineup? Kinect sports extreme? kinect cooking? kinect drawing? Maybe im overlooking an awesome 360 exclusive let me know. PS3 is fine in 2011, i just feel that this show included 3 360 fanboys(who dont usually sound like fanboys) ragging on a system. Maybe to get more listeners? Idk, I just didnt like it.[/QUOTE]

Classic deflection. This wasn't a discussion about the 360, it was one about the failings of the PS3. The PS3 needs work and lots of it. If you like and it is the console of your choice then more power to you. I just barely tolerate mine but keep it around because I don't want to be left out on Uncharted 3.
 
[quote name='ZForce915']Classic deflection. This wasn't a discussion about the 360, it was one about the failings of the PS3. The PS3 needs work and lots of it. If you like and it is the console of your choice then more power to you. I just barely tolerate mine but keep it around because I don't want to be left out on Uncharted 3.[/QUOTE]


Delfection? Nah, you said the 360 has nothing to prove and im saying it does. You avoided my question btw...

I just dont understand how people can create a whole show/discussion on whats wrong with the PS3 and just ignore the flaws and the shitty business tactics of MS and its 360. I have all 3 systems and i tolerate them all just fine, in fact i love em. If you can barely tolerate something then maybe you should get rid of it, that or hope U3 is an amazing game i guess...idk im high
 
As someone that started off with the Xbox and basically switched to PS3 I can tell you at least from my perspective why I think Xbox outsells PS3.

  • Release date. Xbox came out well before PS3 and so had that initially huge advantage.
  • Marketing/lack of games. Sony completely failed when they released the PS3 with no games and a ridiculously high price. That alone was their single biggest mistake. They could have realistically competed but failed out of the gate. It basically gave the Xbox another solid year on the PS3. There was nothing for the PS3 to justify that high price. Did I want Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, and MGS4? Of course, but it's hard to justify spending $4-$500 for a couple of good games. I've already got an Xbox at this point and the PS3 didnt even get Bioshock until much after the Xbox. That for me was the game to own and Xbox had it, PS3 did not.
  • Perception. Is the online on Xbox better than PS3s? Absolutely. Does that mean that online on PS3 is bad though? NO, it isn't and it's also free. But that doesn't matter, the perception is all that does. Also Sony has absolutely failed to address issues and continues to do so. For example something as stupid as cross game chat. Not a big deal normally, except that the Xbox has it and PS3 doesn't! That alone makes it a huge deal that should have been addressed simply so that it could not be used in the console wars.
Ok so fast forward to 2011. PS3 has the exclusives that people want whether or not the 3 of you think so. All of those quality exclusives coming up? People will want them.

They probably still cant compete though without a price drop. Sony needs to stop reacting and be more proactive. CUT THE PRICE. Then you'd have a system for the same $200 or $250 that the other consoles basically go for but with more and better upcoming games. People would buy that. Especially if they'd do it immediately. It's tax season. Many people will have a nice size check which they annually blow on crap they didnt really need. What they need to think they need is a PS3. Sony can make that happen, but they probably won't. Sigh..
 
[quote name='the_void']They have Gears 3 and thats all I need :D[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. Im actually really looking forward to that too, wish they didn't push it back
 
The PS3 games I'm interested in are basically all also available on Xbox 360. In the past 3 years, I've pretty much only used my PS3 as a media player, which it's awesome for. It will become a perfect media player once some homebrew software is released allowing region free Blu-ray and universal format compatibility. And speaking of which, now that PS3 security has been cracked open, everybody should be paying attention to the custom firmware and homebrew scene because not only will it exponentially increase the versatility of the PS3, it will sell systems. I guarantee it.
 
What's going on in this thread? So much rage!

I'm not business person, so I don't know whether Shipwreck's points would help or hurt Sony even more. They should have given up on the PSP by now, and the Marcus marketing campaign is annoying. One factor that will affect Sony's sales is whether or not the consumer has friends on specific platforms. A friend of mine bought a PS3 because of the peers he interacts with, but that's not something Sony can control.

Wombat was overreacting over last week's "Xbox exclusive" comments. Listeners may have been reiterating the same points, but it wasn't done intentionally to frustrate you guys, because some of us have not have read the previous comments. We're on page 8 of this topic, and I haven't read every single comment yet!
 
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So what if they are fan boys, anyways?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and you shouldn't accuse someone of being a fan boy, just because they prefer xbox 360 over ps 3.
Both systems are great. It's just an opinion on which is superior to them personally.
I don't know why it would piss you off, unless you are a fan boy yourself.
 
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