CAGcast #225: PS3 Blood Libel

The point is Ships "analysis" was rambling and simply not well thought out.

the idea of system-sellers is out of date.


as to the "well everyone can be a fanboy/ have an opinion" argument. That is true, however, when you are the hosts a podcast about games and is supposed to be for gamers, the credibility takes a severe hit when you are one sided. No one is asking to you like everything but many times you guys aren't even informed about non-360 things.
 
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"Worldwide sales figures
Wii – 75.90 million as of 30 September 2010[8]
Xbox 360 – 50 million as of 6 January 2011[30]
PlayStation 3 – 41.6 million as of 30 September 2010[31]"

Source: Wikipedia that oh so reliable source.

People rage and argue about sales figures etc. But when it comes down to it does it really matter? I thought we were in this for the videogames people! I chose to buy a PS3 for Metal Gear Solid 4 and God of War 3.

Obviously no one is doing too poorly in terms of console sales; 41.6 million at the lowest?

The point that should have been emphasised in the podcast is the problem with poor exclusive games for this year. Another lot of paint-by-numbers first person shooters and middle of the road JRPGs. Great... Competition is meant to breed creativity and ingenuity but it seems that all that has been sucked out by design-by-committee and all we're left with is just more of the same. In the end it's gamers that should win out and it's sad that there really hasn't been that much diversity in the top games.
 
(before listening to this episode)
Ugh stop talking about the PS3 like you aren't 360 biased (especially Ship/Cheapy). Still listening to the last CAGcast and you guys act like PS3 had no exclusives and 360 was the REAL console w/ the exclusive games. When in reality they both had the same amount, maybe PS3 had a little more quality ones.

I havent been a PS3 fanboy in a long time - and every time I hear you guys talk about the PS3 I revert back.

The main thing is not the content of what they say (generally) it's that damn Shipwreck voice!!! Most of you know what I'm talking about. That slightly whiny, sarcastic tone when he talks about ANYTHING PS3 it feels. Even when he is giving praise it still sounds like he's surprised to be giving it praise and giving out charity love. And he talks like it's not an opinion it's 100% fact and he is the clear deciding person to be stating this info.
 
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Shipwreck makes spreadsheets.
Spreadsheets contain facts.
Therefore, Shipwreck is factually correct about the PS3.

Plus, he is the most qualified since he plays about eleventy thousand games a year.
 
360 is ahead because it was released a year early, had Halo and later GoW exclusives and was $200 cheaper at launch.

The $600 price hurt Sony obviously.

What also hurt Sony was the Wii. I think the PS3 lost quite a few mainstream customers the PS2 had to the Wii.

360 got some core PS gamers and some more pc gamers to booster its fanbase.

PS3 was helped by the shtty 360 hardware. OTherwise I think PS3 might have really tanked. AS it is I guess it has outsold the original Xbox so it's not a total loss.

Also for all the sky is falling PS3 talk, it is about even with the 360 in worldwide sales. And that's with it launching one year later. MOst likely it will pass the 360 is worldwide sales if it hasn't already.

That would leave the 360 in last place world wide.

Amongst the gaming press and core gamers though in the US it is seemingly #1.
 
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I went out and bought a PS3 after listening to this episode. My 360slim broke and Im bored out of my mind with no games to play. I picked up God of War 3 used at blockbuster for $14.99!
 
wow I have not listened to this but i am a total ps3 fan boy so im sure it will offend me 2. For shame cheapy wombat and shipwreck!

sometimes i wish you guys weren't so funny then i wouldn't have to listen to the xbox love.
 
[quote name='lokizz']aside from shipwreck you 2 (cheapy and wombat) do come off like microsoft fanboys. actually listen to the shit you say in your podcasts some thing you nitpick about with the ps3 console and ps4 games youll gloss over or ignore when it comes to xbox games and consooles. just own up to it already and stop denying it. btw cheapy its hard to take your opinion on games seriously anyway when you whine about how if a game is too much of a challenge you dont want to play it and you play most games on easy.

as far as wishing the ps3 was better cmon already i wish xbox had better games and more variety in games. the lack of variety and the instability of the system itself is why i never bought one.[/QUOTE]

I half agree with you...the "challenge" thing is silly. You don't have to like hard games or getting stuck in them to love games or be knowledgeable about them.

BUT...I was surprised by how silly all three people sounded regarding their Playstation complaints. I was expecting something substantial, and instead it was...

-the menu system? It's personal preference. I like the Playstation's menus a lot more. I liked the original Xbox menu system roughly the same, but the new one is just piles of ads and worthless features. I don't even start on the section I launch a game from. The first time I booted up the NXE I had to hunt all over the place to find anything. Sure I have it memorized now, but no way is that as good as the original tab interface or the XMB IMO.

-Slow downloads? Not for me, they've always been the same speed (and how often am I doing that anyway?)

-"all my friends are there"? Well sure, if your friends are on Xbox. That's nothing to do with the platform.

-"It's the same dash..." So? It needs arbitrary change? Being the same isn't a legitimate complaint.

What is it ACTUALLY missing? Cross game voice chat? Does it not do that? Is that it?

That comment last week on the thread I really didn't buy into...but after this? Yeah, I actually do...that stuff sounds like fanboy stuff.
 
Another thing...in terms of library, I think I liked the Xbox better overall somewhat, but I like the Playstation 3 better than the Playstation 2...I don't want it to get back to that level because I think it's better now (plus it's the most powerful system this time, and was on the lower half last time).

The main things I don't like about the PS3 are the lack of wired controllers and #1 the lack of backwards compatibility. I certainly don't mind having fewer adds and a more sensibly laid out dash.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']I half agree with you...the "challenge" thing is silly. You don't have to like hard games or getting stuck in them to love games or be knowledgeable about them.

BUT...I was surprised by how silly all three people sounded regarding their Playstation complaints. I was expecting something substantial, and instead it was...

-the menu system? It's personal preference. I like the Playstation's menus a lot more. I liked the original Xbox menu system roughly the same, but the new one is just piles of ads and worthless features. I don't even start on the section I launch a game from. The first time I booted up the NXE I had to hunt all over the place to find anything. Sure I have it memorized now, but no way is that as good as the original tab interface or the XMB IMO.

-Slow downloads? Not for me, they've always been the same speed (and how often am I doing that anyway?)

-"all my friends are there"? Well sure, if your friends are on Xbox. That's nothing to do with the platform.

-"It's the same dash..." So? It needs arbitrary change? Being the same isn't a legitimate complaint.

What is it ACTUALLY missing? Cross game voice chat? Does it not do that? Is that it?

That comment last week on the thread I really didn't buy into...but after this? Yeah, I actually do...that stuff sounds like fanboy stuff.[/QUOTE]


that cagcast was just a joke. i could imagine major nelson in the background giving them the thumbs up and cheering them on for their loyal service to microsoft. i dont care if someone is biased towards a console but admit it when you are and dont try to feign being open minded about it.

i dont really listen to their podcasts for gaming news anyway the site has plenty of informed and connected people who do way more to keep everyone informed on new things coming out i listen because sometimes theyre entertaining but a whole podcast of them circle jerking to the xbox is a bit much to handle.
 
Seriously, I love the podcast. I never miss an episode. But honestly, I found Shipwreck's argument against the PS3's 2011 line-up very weak.

First of all, just because these games are exclusive to the PS3, doesn't mean Sony has financed them in any way. Seven of those exclusives are not first party games. These are third party games that happen to be exclusive for PS3. Sony can not tell them what to make.

Secondly, you have to realize and recognize that no matter how hard you want them to be, Sony does not want to be Microsoft. Sony is going to support their system the best way they know how; by developing titles that bolster the line-up and make the console shine. No other console has an Ico, an LBP, or an MLB: The Show. Microsoft does not have a studio like Naughty Dog that can get things out of the 360, like ND can out of the PS3. And if you like arcade racers, not only can you get the better version of NFS: HP, you can also get the Motorstorm franchise.

And besides, I thought we were all gamers here. Don't you guys want to see another Alan Wake? Also MS should have given Crackdown and Fable 3 more time to incubate. Looking at their track record in games, it's quite possible these games would've been handled better under Sony. Microsoft would have never green lit Heavy Rain [quiet, Wombat :) ], MS does not have the DNA to create an LBP, or the talent to make a Shadow of the Colossus. You may not have liked these games, but they were good for the industry.

One final ironic point; On the games front, Sony is more of a global company than Microsoft. Just like you guys complain about the PS3 (much like other western podcasts), there is a Japanese, a German, and an Australian podcast steady second guessing Microsoft.

The die has been cast. The PS3 will not have "better online" than XBox, because that is not where Sony's strength lies. When you fire up these consoles, you know what you're gonna get. So, stop belly aching the three times you fire up your PS3. BTW, the Wii has good games; get out of comfort zone and play some.
 
There were a couple things that irked me.

One was the talk about the exclusives not being strong enough for PS3 (besides Uncharted and perhaps Killzone). Those are 2 huge games right there but even besides those there is Little Big Planet 2, Infamous 2, Twisted Metal, Resistance 3...and on and on. To pretend that that is part of the problem is ridiculous imo.

The only thing I could agree with there is that there is no exclusive accessible action RPG for PS3. There is no answer to Fable 3. There is of course 2 great RPG type games (Demon's Souls and Tales of Vesperia). Edit: Valkyria Chronicles.

The second thing that irked me with the exclusive talk is that there was no mention of the lack of exclusives for the Xbox. There is Gears and Forza announced so far for 2011. They delayed their biggest game of 2011 for months just to be able to compete in the holiday season. If it was PS3 doing this and only having 2 exclusives I think the 3 of you would be talking about it a lot and bashing the PS3 left and right. Am I wrong?

Anyway I dont care if you like Xbox better. That's fine and it's fine to say it. What isn't fine is to not put the same amount of criticism towards the Xbox for it's faults. That's why you come off as fan boys I think.
 
[quote name='Jamafrika']"Worldwide sales figures
Wii – 75.90 million as of 30 September 2010[8]
Xbox 360 – 50 million as of 6 January 2011[30]
PlayStation 3 – 41.6 million as of 30 September 2010[31]"

.[/QUOTE]

Of the 76 million Wiis how many are getting real play time vs how many are in pawn shops or collecting dust? I like the wii but 10 of my friends have it and they all rarely play it.

I think when it is all over it will be safe to say that the wii will go down in history as the most sold least played system ever to come out. IMO
 
Wombat, Don't know if this was mentioned in the other pages but I can explain why EA had their whole pre-order thing end in this month vs. closer to when the game comes out...

Basically with videogame retailers, they must make projections of what they are going to order months before the game is actually released. Typically this is 2-4 months before the game is released, sometimes with Nintendo it might be earlier just because of demand and limited availability.

What EA did was try to push as many pre-orders early so that they could pad up that number to be ordered by Gamestop and other retailers. They can say they have XXXXX number of games pre-ordered, so if you want to have more copies for your store you have to order a percentage from XXXXX vs. xxx because we have so many pre-orders in already and you will get even more before the game comes out.

Could this process be solved with easier order and fufilment measures? Yes. But it isn't likely. Because videogames cost so much more vs. say movies, they can't just ship out a display pallet with 100 copies because they know they will sell all of them. EA wants to put a bunch of pre-order marketing to get more buzz and actual numbers pre-ordered so they can tell everyone to order more games before the game is released.

Does this suck for most people. Yes. Is it rare to be sold out and cannot find the game anywhere, possibly. Typically it is for a game with not a bunch of marketing, from my own experience we had that issue with Borderlands where for a while everyone was sold out, including Gamestop because the game sold way better than people expected.

Now in turn, when Borderlands 2 (Borderworld) is released people are going to have high expectations for it and the game may not sell as high/fast as the first game which will lead people to say it is a failure. Same thing happened with Bioshock 2. The first game came from nowhere so it was a big surprise for most of the market. People knew Bioshock 2 was coming so it wasn't a surprise hence the lackluster sales. This can be several factors too such as Bioshock 2 being multiplatform which if you look at the sales, if the game was just on Xbox 360 and geared toward that market, it is possible that it would have done the same amount or better in sales than the first game.

But back to the point, pre-orders help retailers decide on quantities to order. It is why you see Epic Mickey having high sales because places like Target, Wal-Mart and especially Toys R Us saw many people pre-order and give the game high buzz because of what it could be and not what it was. Disney is riding a wave of having a hit game that people don't really like. Problem with this is it will be hard to develop a franchise or do ports to HD because it left a bad taste in people's mouth. Ironically best chance is to develop something for DS/3DS because the name would carry over but it is possible that people would rather accept that game/port vs. Epic Mickey 2.

Again, off topic but they want your order early no matter if you can buy it from Best Buy on the same day or after because it helps forecast and get them more money. Its like how now they are pushing Madden 12 just because they know someone would pre-order it and they want counts in by say May for a game coming out in August.
 
Personally my biggest gripe with the PS3 is the constant system updates - taking up to 40 minutes to play some games after system and game updates are first downloaded then installed is unacceptable. Of the three current gen consoles, my PS3 is played the least by far, hence the reason why there always seems to be a system update which adds to my frustration of even turning on the console.

My second complaint has to be PS3 exclusive titles. Although I purchased my PS3 within the first year of its release, the system seller for me was backwards compatibility (BC) and the future release of God of War. Four years into the consoles life cycle, BC is no longer a factor for me and God of War just hasn't innovated enough to hold my interest. Looking at the upcoming releases, Uncharted 3 is the only game that will have me opening my wallet at or near release.

If the PS3 was my lone console, I'm sure it would be acceptable given its offerings. However being fortunate enough to own an Xbox 360 and Wii, my PS3 is really the odd man out. I'll almost always purchase multi-platform games on the 360 because of the user interface (i.e. the controller and Xbox Live) and my interest in the Wii, and future Nintendo consoles, will continue to be fueled by first party Nintendo games, and a few innovative third party titles.
 
lol yeah man, PS3 fanboys get soo butt hurt about any negative comment made towards Sony. Its just 3 people telling us their opinions on which console they prefer and why. You cant tell people they're wrong for not liking a game like little big planet or whatever.
 
I don't see why firmware updates, installs, and download times are actually a good reason to dislike a platform. They really only take up a minuscule amount of time. At best they delay instant gratification a tad, but to judge an entire platform based on that is just kind of silly (especially when firmware updates occur in order to add features to the console, something that is in your favor).

I also don't understand complaints about the XMB. People say it's confusing to use: is it confusing because you owned Xbox 360 first and then got your PS3 so you're unfamiliar with one and familiar with the other (kind of like how it's always harder to learn a second language) or is it actually unwieldly? This is especially an especially noticeable issue with their criticism when you consider that people who think the Xbox 360 is superior use it more often so that's always going to seem more familiar and easy to use for them.

I can give you a whole lot of examples where the Dashboard and XMB differ and the XMB wins as well. I can find my billing information and delete it right there on the console without nothing anything, just by going to account management. It isn't even possible to delete billing information directly from your Xbox 360 (which is different from canceling subscriptions which is also buried in confusing places), they make you go online to do it on purpose to try and make it difficult for you to stop paying them.

Live is better for social features. Things like cross-game chat, and your ability to access information about your friends is much better implemented. But you also have to pay for live. Pretending that one is clearly better than the other is silly.

And lets ask a very basic question here. What does Xbox 360 have coming out this year as an exclusive? Gears of War 3 and Forza 4 are the only ones I know of. Torchlight and Breach are exclusive to XBLA.

Sony has Little Big Planet 2, Killzone 3, Resistance 2, Sorcery, Heroes on the Move, SOCOM 4, Uncharted 3, Motorstorm Apocalypse, Shadow of the Colossus/Ico collection, The Last Guardian, and that's just off the top of my head. We will also get access to Dead Space: Extraction, and PSN exclusives include: Modern Combat: Domination and Journey.

While I agree that XBLA and PSN releases are quite on par (the only reason I still have my 360 at this point is arcade games), retail is looking extremely anemic.

I haven't tried Kinetic, so I don't know if it's better than Move. Sales only indicate marketability, and I think it's pretty obvious that Kinetic wins that fight. Xbox 360 this year is basically hanging its hat on mass-market appeal, while leaving core gamers in the dust. That may make the 360 a more successful platform, but I don't play games in order to reward companies that are good at appealing to a wide audience and making money: I play games to have fun.

I'd contend that there Sony wins: Playstation 3 is better for the core demographic.
 
I heard two jews and a ginger were talking out of there asses about the ps3 had a feeling it was a cagcast just kidding guys. Though You were very negative against the ps3 you had your points, but some of boatcrashs points fell kinda flat like the argument on the exclusives. Other things like wombat suggesting that the ps3 maybe needing a fable like rpg I agree with,and sure you guys are biased some of you more than the others,but I enjoy your discussions and your biasness is what makes this the cagcast. keep up the good work guys.
 
This show was a trainwreck. This felt like a podcast from 2007, with the same tired arguments as to why the PS3 needs "saving". Shipwreck's entire analysis was just...dumb. It basically broke down that if X game isn't a bona fide system seller and outselling Call of Duty, Sony needs to immediately abandon X game and make some new IPs. Suggesting that a) In the system’s 5th year, Sony can or should just abandon its established exclusives on the PS3 and create/find entirely new ones, b) Sony should stop releasing any sort of game that can compete with Call of Duty and that c) If a PS3 game cannot sell more than the 12 million copies that Black Ops did, Sony needs to scrap it and make some new games, is downright stupid. A game like Socom is not competing with Call of Duty. It's not even the same type of game. For a guy that plays about 5,000 games per year, you’d think Shipwreck could tell the difference. They're two totally different markets. Resistance is also not competing with Call of Duty. If it’s competing with anything, it’s going against the sci-fi games like Halo and Gears. It’s getting its ass whooped in that fight, but it’s trying.

Why would Sony just abandon a flagship series like Resistance? That makes absolutely no sense. Resistance 2 didn't sell as well as it should have because in November 2008 when it released, it had to go up against Gears 2, and Call of Duty 4. What did Resistance 1 have to compete against? Genji? Sony released R2 at a terrible time. That's not an indication that Sony needs to scrap the Resistance series, but map out a better release schedule, and do better marketing. Shipwreck, you said that Microsoft has moved on from "numerous" games/series, and that's something that Sony needs to do. Now "numerous" implies a lot of games they did this for, yet you failed to name anything besides maybe Crackdown. I can't think of "numerous" games Microsoft left on the wayside. I can think of a few, but not "numerous". If you look at Sony's home consoles from the PS1 to the PS3, Sony has consistently put out new games, new franchises, and new exclusives. At least they make some attempt to put new games out there. I find it ironic that Shipwreck kept saying the PS3 needs fresh ideas, and then doesn't say anything when Wombat points out all the 360 has is Gears/Halo/Fable/Forza. Every E3, all Microsoft shows off is the above mentioned games, along with a Call of Duty map pack. It's beyond stale at this point, and quite frankly, boring. Don’t get me wrong. I love those games. But Microsoft seriously needs to start planning some new exclusives and franchises sooner rather than later. They need to start taking some chances on some new stuff, otherwise it’s going to bite them in the ass in a few years.

You guys said the PS3 has no game to match Fable. That’s true. However, both systems have something you won't be able to find on the other. The 360 has no game to match the Uncharted series, and it never will. I just can imagine seeing that type of game on the 360. The 360 also has no game to match the Ratchet and Clank series. I'm not saying that Ratchet is the be all end all, but the 360 has no platformers. Don’t say Banjo Nuts & Bolts, because that game is a joke. I only bring up this point because Microsoft purchased Rare, the king of platformers, and have failed to utilize them. What was the point of buying them? To make them develop shitty Kinect games? Rare has the ability to create 3-4 new platforming games/mascots for them, yet they haven't done so. It makes no sense. I really wish they would put out games like that, because they have the ability to do so. It's really disappointing. Microsoft has the ability to push new game titles, yet they continue to ride the Halo and Gears train. Alan Wake was a step in the right direction. Now, they need to continue in that direction.

The fact is, there are maybe 1 or 2 exclusive system sellers this generation, if even that. When you ask someone why they want a PS3 or 360, the answer is Call of Duty. 10/10 times, it's Call of Duty. Maybe Grand Theft Auto, but there hasn't been a new release for a few years now. Everything is about multiplatform now. People are buying new game systems for Call of Duty. Plain and simple. Microsoft has done the smart thing of marketing the game as a 360 title. Sony will not be able to undo the damage of the first few years of the system’s life. They fucked up badly, and quite frankly won’t be able to recover and relive the glory days of the PS1 or PS2.

The PS3 exclusives like Killzone 3, Resistance 3, Uncharted 3, Infamous 2, Little Big Planet 2, and Twisted Metal are their big games this year. The other stuff is supplementary, and I'm sure more games will be announced as 2011 rolls on. I'm not saying I'm buying each one of them, but that's a pretty damn good lineup. In fact, it’s a fantastic line up. Sony's problem is that they just don't know how to market their games properly. I completely disagree with Ship's assessment that Kevin Butler needs to go, etc. I think he's done a great job of revamping their image, and a lot of non-gamers that know I'm a gamer talk to me about the commercials. They love them. Sony’s image today is drastically more positive than it was around 2006-2008, due to the system relaunch and those Kevin Butler commercials. The games to sell the systems are there. There is no reason why system sales should be down, or why their games should’t be reaching 3-6 million sales each either. I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of their games. They're marketing department just completely sucks. Microsoft just seems to market everything better, especially their XBLA games. XBLA are one of the center pieces of the system, while PSN games are kind of just there. Sony needs to market their exclusives like they’re the second coming of Christ. Push it hard and long.

As far as the PS3's online capabilities go, you guys can stop using the lame argument that Xbox Live is so much better than PSN. It’s not. Xbox Live is no longer vastly superior to PSN. This isn't 2007 anymore. You guys should stop talking like PSN is still in the stone age, because it’s no longer there. I've been playing games online with the PS3 extensively since 2007. It was completely awful then. For a lot of games, you couldn’t even access your friends list or send invites properly. The difference between then and now is like night and day. I have to roll my eyes every time I hear someone drone on and on about how XBL is better in every way to PSN. At this point, they’re pretty close in terms of quality. I still can't wrap my head around how people justify paying that much money to play multiplayer games. Games are expensive enough. The fact that you need to pay additional money to access features on the disc is ridiculous.

I expect you guys to analyze the 360 and Wii over the next show or two with Ship's fancy spread sheets, but I doubt that's going to happen. I'm not sure why you guys singled out the PS3, unless you plan on doing the same thing for the other systems. I hope to see you guys as hard hitting on the 360 as you were on the PS3. Maybe you guys should just stick with what brought you to the dance (fart and weed jokes) and leave the serious industry analysis to other podcasts. Otherwise, we get episodes like this.
 
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You have to admit though, the numbers don't lie and they show that Nintendo is still making bank off of casuals and Microsoft was pretty smart to tap into that market with Kinect. I think the mistake that both companies are making however is in assuming that casuals are an infinite supply of consumerism that will reap them profits for a long while.

Casuals tend to lose interest in purchasing new products rather fast, they're impressed by new experiences that have that initial wow-factor, but they don't stick around for multiple sequels (as the music genre is starting to notice). Dance games will be the next big bubble to burst. Then what will Kinect and Wii have left?

The brilliance of Move is that it has the accuracy and functionality to be used in hardcore and mainstream titles while Kinect just doesn't have enough precision (plus would be downright silly to play a shooter with for example) and Wii just doesn't have the proper infrastructure (poor online support and graphical capabilities).

What remains to be seen is what Nintendo is going to do in terms of releasing another console, whether or not Microsoft is actually going to push hardcore titles for Kinect (and if those will actually be successful -- I think the technology has the potential, it just hasn't been utilized yet), and how the quality of Sony's software is going to pan out (will the exclusives be good, will they actually do a firmware update for the first time in months that adds across the board functionality of something for all users to further equalizing the experience between Xbox live and PSN).

The obvious way to success for Sony is to release a killer app for Move, add cross game chat to PSN+, and keep expanding the software base. I think they're hoping the sharpshooter attachment and move functionality in Killzone and SOCOM 4 will really sell Move to the hardcore crowd, they are working on crossgame chat (or at least that's what they always say), and they're succeeding in expanding the software base (a lot of games that were single-platform are now becoming multi with their latest sequels, such as Two Worlds 2, Mass Effect 3, Epic Mickey, Dead Space Extraction, No More Heroes etc.).

Interestingly, with the addition of Move Sony has wedged itself between Nintendo and Microsoft: PS3 is in a unique position to steal exclusives from both consoles because they have the power of Xbox 360 with a controller similar to the Wiimote (making ports quite easy).
 
Outside of hardware launch-windows, exclusive AAA games aren't really system sellers so much as they are tipping points.

And if you want to get down to the nitty gritty on hardware then I submit that the 360's ~50% failure rate was a gigantic deterrent to system sales just as was the PS3's $600 price-tag. Once the 360s stopped exploding and the PS3s weren't rivaling a new desktop in price then a shit-ton more people actually started to buy them.

In that light, the Wii was the only sure fire bet as the reliability and price were at a great level at launch and especially when coupled with a new Zelda and them fancy new fangled motion controls.
 
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[quote name='Fell Open Ian']Outside of hardware launch-windows, exclusive AAA games aren't really system sellers so much as they are tipping points.[/QUOTE]

I disagree I have seen people buy a current gen system just for a game. IMO Everything they said was the truth. This has nothing to do with bashing.

I love the ps3 but for years it sat on the shelf with limited play. The store interface was / is horrible. The past 1 1/2 year has been much better the titles & the downloading was much better but for the first 2 years the download time was rediculous.


Ms has stopped franchises like Mech assualt and I think crimson tide.
I like resistance. In the end we are all winners. I thimk sony needs to put out a controller like the 360 for fps players. IMO the only reason they don't is because of arrogance. Clearly same axis sticks are problematic.

That stops a lot of people from playing certian games on the Ps3.
 
With the whole PS3 debate, I don't know why someone is defending the PS3 when they didn't attack it at all. If you have listened to the CAGcast, they all own a PS3 and play games for the PS3. They were very honest about the PS3 experience and where they felt it should be after 5 years. Those gripes might not affect you but they do the three and three out of three means that their are odds that other people are going through the same thing. None of them have anything to gain from bashing the PS3 other than smiling as PS3 fanboys rush to it's defense.

What they are saying is that the PS3 should be on par with the Xbox 360 even if they just outright copy them. It is something they have not done period. Just like the 360 got a new relaunch, maybe it is time that the PS3 go through it's own dramatic update and don't just mean the size of the box.

It is like if everyone is saying you smell and you don't smell it... maybe there is something wrong with you? Look at the numbers, 360 is dominating in software sales typically 3/2 to 1. There is no doubt this has to do with Xbox Live. People would rather play multiplayer on that system because of the community and point, period. If it were just for the game itself, there is typically no real difference one way or another.

Could Sony fix this? Yes... will they? Nope. When it comes down to it, Sony is a Japanese company and just like Nintendo, are stuck in its ways of doing things. I bet if it were Sony USA designing the next system we would get more western features to match Xbox Live. Just on the same point, Japanese gamers are not fond of the 360 hence sales there suck. If anything maybe there needs to be two different systems for the different markets or at least a different UI for the different regions?
 
[quote name='gepet0']I disagree I have seen people buy a current gen system just for a game. IMO Everything they said was the truth. This has nothing to do with bashing.

I love the ps3 but for years it sat on the shelf with limited play. The store interface was / is horrible. The past 1 1/2 year has been much better the titles & the downloading was much better but for the first 2 years the download time was rediculous.


Ms has stopped franchises like Mech assualt and I think crimson tide.
I like resistance. In the end we are all winners. I thimk sony needs to put out a controller like the 360 for fps players. IMO the only reason they don't is because of arrogance. Clearly same axis sticks are problematic.

That stops a lot of people from playing certian games on the Ps3.[/QUOTE]
A deterrent yes but not as much as the price of the PS3.

Also I forgot to bitch before that half those extra Xbox sales are probably because people had to buy multiple consoles...In fact I think everyone I know besides one person has owned 2 or more Xboxes (not just because of RROD though, and it looks like they fixed that issue finally). I've even owned 2 and I barely play it.
 
[quote name='gepet0']I disagree I have seen people buy a current gen system just for a game. [/QUOTE]

Well we all buy systems for a game, or rather with a game, but how long does someone having only that game last outside of the hardware launch-window?

If you purchase a system at launch it's usually because you just have to play some game but those that purchase a console further into the cycle may pick-up a full-price release with their shiny new console but most of them quickly turn around and scoop up the now $20-30 other greats that any fence sitter gets to reap the benefits of.

Unless we are talking about the casuals who don't really buy that many games ever no matter when they buy the system.
 
[quote name='bingbangboom']With the whole PS3 debate, I don't know why someone is defending the PS3 when they didn't attack it at all. If you have listened to the CAGcast, they all own a PS3 and play games for the PS3. They were very honest about the PS3 experience and where they felt it should be after 5 years. Those gripes might not affect you but they do the three and three out of three means that their are odds that other people are going through the same thing. None of them have anything to gain from bashing the PS3 other than smiling as PS3 fanboys rush to it's defense.

What they are saying is that the PS3 should be on par with the Xbox 360 even if they just outright copy them. It is something they have not done period. Just like the 360 got a new relaunch, maybe it is time that the PS3 go through it's own dramatic update and don't just mean the size of the box.

It is like if everyone is saying you smell and you don't smell it... maybe there is something wrong with you? Look at the numbers, 360 is dominating in software sales typically 3/2 to 1. There is no doubt this has to do with Xbox Live. People would rather play multiplayer on that system because of the community and point, period. If it were just for the game itself, there is typically no real difference one way or another.

Could Sony fix this? Yes... will they? Nope. When it comes down to it, Sony is a Japanese company and just like Nintendo, are stuck in its ways of doing things. I bet if it were Sony USA designing the next system we would get more western features to match Xbox Live. Just on the same point, Japanese gamers are not fond of the 360 hence sales there suck. If anything maybe there needs to be two different systems for the different markets or at least a different UI for the different regions?[/QUOTE]

Sony will not copy Microsoft on the online front. Give that up. XBL is not the only way to do online. If that's the way you like it, fine. There is a place for you. But if you want to play something on the PS3, it has been five years into the console cycle; You know what to expect.

You said it yourself; Sony does it the way the Japanese like it. Why should they stop; For the US market? No, just do not buy a console, hoping it would be something it is not.

We are all more than aware of their host of complains. If they're not happy take it back. If they are simply holding on to the PS3 to give the appearance of being honest, then don't worry about it. Nobody cares. Their views on the PS3 is not why I listen. No one come here for breaking news. I come here because they funny as hell, I like to listen to different outlooks and opinions on video games. But Shipwreck is stretching this old argument thin and now it's going flat. I love the guys, but the topic this week was a rehash.
 
[quote name='ShockandAww']A deterrent yes but not as much as the price of the PS3.

Also I forgot to bitch before that half those extra Xbox sales are probably because people had to buy multiple consoles...In fact I think everyone I know besides one person has owned 2 or more Xboxes (not just because of RROD though, and it looks like they fixed that issue finally). I've even owned 2 and I barely play it.[/QUOTE]


I am convinced if the ps3 dropped at 299-399 the gameing landscape would look totally different. People would overlook the flaws and the developers would have been more committed to pumping out games.

I think we are all in agreement that sony chooseing to promote its blue ray over a cheaper ps3 clearly knocked them off as king of the consoles.


On another note. I was gonna buy Dc online until I heard of the monthly fee. I'll pass. 15 is alot of money. That is 180 a year.
 
You know it's funny I love Sony, but I couldn't find a reason this weekend to get my friend to buy a PS3...I don't think you guys are hating on the PS3 but just telling the truth.

The exclusives aren't there, and for me that wouldn't matter if the online was much better if not just on par with Xbox Live :/
 
Regardless if how you feel about the PS3 it's just not good fake radio to talk about the same issues over and over again. Ps3 fans don't want to hear it and 360/Wii fans don't care.
 
[quote name='Mujinator']Why is everyone hating just cuz they prefer the xbox just because its a better console as a whole[/QUOTE]

Because this is a podcast for gamers, not just Xbox gamers. I will go listen to OXM podcast if I want that. My opinion, and apparently a lot of people agree here, is that the PS3 doesn't get a fair shake from the podcast guys especially when they don't even bother to play the PS3 exclusives.
 
[quote name='SuxoR']You know it's funny I love Sony, but I couldn't find a reason this weekend to get my friend to buy a PS3...I don't think you guys are hating on the PS3 but just telling the truth.

The exclusives aren't there, and for me that wouldn't matter if the online was much better if not just on par with Xbox Live :/[/QUOTE]

I feel just the opposite, but I suspect that's because I love SRPGs, RPGs and Action/Adventure games while I really don't care about online games or shooters. Personally, I just don't see hardly any good Xbox 360 exclusives in 2011 and the $60 price tag for Xbox Live still irks me to no end. Of all of the consoles this generation, the Xbox 360 is the one that bothers me the most. Microsoft released a defective product and my launch system died 4-5 times before I finally had to replace it. I had no such problems with my launch PlayStation 3. Every year I have grown more and more disappointed in my Xbox 360 while I've become much more fond of my PlayStation 3.

Honestly, if it wasn't for me getting a free Xbox 360/Kinect from Burger King I probably wouldn't have replaced it and if it wasn't for the Kinect I probably wouldn't have kept it, but that's just me.

I'll pose this question since they went through 20 of PlayStation 3's 2011 Exclusives. What exclusive games are coming out for the Xbox 360 in 2011? I know of Gears of War 3, Forza 4 and Dance Central 2, but what else is there? Of Xbox360Achievement's 20 most anticipated Xbox 360 games 17 of them are available on the PlayStation 3 with an additional game also being available on PC (XCOM). http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news-1946-Our-20-Most-Anticipated-Games-of-2011.html

For 2011, the only Xbox 360 game that I really care about is Dance Central 2 and that's kinda sad. Microsoft needs more exclusive games that aren't shooters and Rare needs to release a new Kameo game or something that doesn't have to do with Avatars... This Avatar bs that they've been delegated to over the past couple of years is ridiculous.
 
There has never been a single episode of anything that has made me stop watching or listening to something that I previously liked, until now.
 
Hey guys

I just wanted to say that i enjoyed the show like every other week and how true your guys comments on the ps3 is

I love my ps3 and i bought it on lunch day and it is my only console, but it still has many many problems with it. (you guys covered them all) especially the install time. Over the years, i started to play less video games because of all the things i have to do to even get the game started.

I just wanted to say i totally agree with you guys on how the ps3 needs to be better. I love the show guys keep it up :D

p.s. looking through the comments of this show is ridiculous. Bashing on your guy's opinions.
 
[quote name='ThyDarkKnight']There has never been a single episode of anything that has made me stop watching or listening to something that I previously liked, until now.[/QUOTE]

Deal with it and move on.
 
Let me say this before anything ; I would have been just as pissed if you spent a whole show ranting about the 360 or the Wii. But here I go...

What the hell was that, guys? I was cool after the first 20 minute rant. The second 20 minute rant pushed it. By the time you starting ranting for the third time, I almost turned the show off. What was the point in all of this? To "critically evaluate" Sony? Bullshit. Sony is doing just fine. The have a solid standing in the US, and they have Japan in the palm of their hands.

By the end of the show, you were criticizing huge games like "Socom 4" and "Twisted Metal". "Why are they making these games", you ask. I can tell you why; because people want them. Trying to guess how well a game is going to sell based on the selling power of a game that came out at the beginning of the PS3 lifespan is just stupid (Socom). Or when the last game was released for the PS2 (Twisted Metal). Come on guys, you are better than this.

I have a theory on why you did this show - To fight back against the whiny PS3 fanboys who criticize you everytime you do not worship their big name releases. I understand, that WOULD get annoying. We all know you all prefer the Xbox, which is cool. You are entitled to your opinion, and labeling you as a "fanboy" just because you have a preference is foolish. But was it necessary to attack back with a full show of sounding like a bunch of PMS'ing ladies? A full spreadsheet, Shipwreck? Really?

Most of us listen to the show to hear about what games you like, mixed in with a little bit of what you don't like. Not a full show of bitching. This is the first show since Shipwreck came on that I can say I would not recommend to a friend.

You guys are still great, but I urge you, for the sake of your listeners, don't spend more than twenty minutes ranting during the next show.

Oh. And I think that this sums up the show quite nicely -

[quote name='Jazar']Regardless if how you feel about the PS3 it's just not good fake radio to talk about the same issues over and over again. Ps3 fans don't want to hear it and 360/Wii fans don't care.[/QUOTE]

Well said, Jazar.
 
In response to shipwreck thinking the PS3 would be bigger this year I'm another person still holding out. I don't need a blu-ray player since I have a roku box that streams HD netflix and even my Wii can stream SD netflix. Even if I did want a blu-ray player I could get an RCA one that streams netflix for under $100 this week. The price is still the killer. I can't justify $300 on a PS3 yet when an xbox is so much cheaper. The best deals are get a free game or $50 gift card but then the price is still $250. I think the sweet spot of $200 or some great bundle would have to make it worth it. It really is all about the $200 price in a bestbuy, target whatnot ad. The move bundle is nice for $400, but I don't want move if I have a Wii. While it is more precise I just want a PS3 for the multi-platform games and the exclusives. (Have you seen Metal Gear Solid 4! It's like $10 used at Gamestop.) So the games are not the problem to restate it really is that it just looks to expensive.

I'm not mad that you singled out the PS3 as well. I'm glad you talk about your opinions with as many fuck yous, poop jokes, spreadsheets that you want. Once again great show!

Side Question - What games are you still looking forward too that have been announced but not heard form for awhile like Beyond Good and Evil 2. Have you you ever played the original and if not do you plan to buy the HD version on Xbox Live?
 
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So when PS3 fans complain about your treatment of the PS3 they get two hours of you rationally discussing why you prefer the 360 and what Sony can do to fix it. When PC fans point out you don't even acknowledge our platform of choice exists we get told that the point has already been made now shut up.

Most of the time it's fun to listen to the cagcast for your great incite on the industry, and willingness to speak your mind. That illusion is broken when you stop to wallow in your own ignorance about PC games. For crying out loud, iPhone games get more coverage.
 
Actually, this thread wouldn't be so active if it wasn't for the fudge. Wombat, just give us fudge and we'll take our ball and go home. Fudge.
 
It's a good thing to criticize things that can be improved on the PS3... on all consoles even. If Sony only hears people say the PS3 is perfect, it becomes stagnant and gets left behind.
If people hadn't complained about the noisy 360s and their high failure rate, Microsoft wouldn't have re-evaluated their system and come out with the much-improved slim model.
The fact that these guys are complaining about the system shows their interest in it and its full potential, unlike the Wii which Cheapy and Wombat have just given up on.

But I'm happy with the PS3's lineup this year. It's really too late for "system sellers." But what they're doing is giving their customers what they want: sequels to hit games. That shows they cater to the audience that's already there. If I was outside looking in on that, I'd want to get a PS3 because they show they can do fan service.
 
[quote name='meager']It's a good thing to criticize things that can be improved on the PS3... on all consoles even. If Sony only hears people say the PS3 is perfect, it becomes stagnant and gets left behind.
[/QUOTE]

These are the same criticisms that have been stated on the CAGCast for literally years. Trust me Sony knows the complaints on the system. They even have a website dedicated to that: http://share.blog.us.playstation.com/
 
(all of this was written in a emotional state/early in the morning/lack of food - thank you):

I'm just in shock about the state of the cagcast now. I've been a listener since episode ~14 and I'm actually thinking of unsubscribing. Can't believe Ship is ranting about how the only reason a game should be created is if it sells tons like a CoD or a Halo. That's why the game industry has been great, is that it is not fully controlled by the # crunchers and the creative minds have a big say in what THEY want to make, even if it doesn't make CoD money.

-talking about sales # across consoles-

Also we all understand that Cheapy and Ship like 360 more than PS3 - but state they wish the PS3 could sell as much as the 360 can. So does that mean the Wii is the best console of them all? And the 360 has sold 51.3M worldwide and PS3 46.6m worldwide. Yea, PS3 needs to be SAVED because it's 5m behind... get real. Then the 360 really needs to be taken off the market because it's not selling the 85 million like the Wii is.

And it's only because we LIVE in America that 360 seems to be doing better, every where else the PS3 is the leader. Goddam CheapyD you live in Japan - it's not even close. And the 360 will win every time here because it's an american console and they know how to market to American customers - that's the ONLY reason it sells better in america. Not because the PS3 doesn't have Gears and Fable..

[quote name='collipop']Hey guys,

Just wanted to say something regarding the playstation 3 discussion. I have owned both ps3 and 360 from launch and completely agree with cheapy, wombat and ships opinions. When I launch my ps3 it feels completely soulless and everything is just convoluted. I still to this day don't understand where I go to just get demos. Compare this to the 360 and its simply night and day, the dashboard is always changing and feels alive.

Don't let other people stop you from saying what you think.[/QUOTE]
You don't understand where to get demo's? Click the store... and then maybe demo's?
 
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[quote name='collipop']I still to this day don't understand where I go to just get demos. Compare this to the 360 and its simply night and day, the dashboard is always changing and feels alive.[/QUOTE]

Unless there's something I'm missing...

When you first start up the PSN store....there's a button for "demos" right there. It's not hidden anywhere. Even less clicking then on the 360.
 
Great CAGcast as always.

I agree that the CAGcast doesn't have enough Playstation love but you know what? Who cares? They could be trashing every console known to man and it would still be an awesome podcast :D
 
Now I'm up to the Resistance bashing part of the show.

Random thoughts:
-who cares what these things sell?
-Stuff selling hundreds of thousands of copies in one country is generally a big success anyway...or at least it was last I paid much attention to this

Regarding Resistance specifically:
-The second one is in my backlog, but the first one was the most fun I'd had with a straight FPS in ages. Took Raven in the last year or two to do better IMO. The second one was supposed to have a worse story, and just generally worse single player. That's probably one reason it sold worse. The other, quite obvious reason is the first one has been out forever, and was the best launch title for the system. The second one is having to compete in a much more crowded market.

The series is easily my favorite thing Insomniac has ever done...I most certainly don't want them ending it. It's just sort of strange/a shame Sony didn't lock them up.

And then kind of the same thing about the Xbox...only having four series left or whatever isn't a great thing. I've been a little concerned by how Microsoft has been scaling things back over the last six years.

No more Crackdown isn't a good thing. The first one's a great game, and I want more. The second's in my backlog, and I expect to like it even despite it's apparent worse rehashing. They could do a great third that's a true story sequel to the first. I don't even need better/different gameplay, though that's fine.

It's still the only GTA style game I completely love, that doesn't just make me feel like the open world is pointless. Even Assassin's Creed, which in a lot of ways I feel like is the 'better' game, I still don't entirely like the open world.

Obviously I'm still excited to see how Infamous stacks up. It looks a lot better, and I kind of like how it has more specific super powers, but Crackdown's so good I'm still iffy. (Geez, am I getting up to 3 years behind on that now?)

And where the heck is Rare? They made so many good/solid games, left Nintendo with the IMO completely awesome Starfox Adventures, and then hardly did anything.

I want more platformers! I want more random weird stuff Rare is known for! I do NOT want them wasting time on Miis and Project Shitbox 'games'.

END RANDOM NOT WELL WRITTEN THOUGHTS
 
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