CAGcast #322: Press X to CAGcast

[quote name='Wombat']I read up a lot before we did the show and I understood the story. My opinion is just different than yours. Next time instead if discussing what I felt the game should have done or could have done I will read a synopsis of the plot. That seems to be what everyone wants.[/QUOTE]

Wombat, it's pretty clear that you did not fully grasp the everything that went down in Infinite. You didn't even catch why Elizabeth was called Anna. Your parachute argument also falls flat if you understood why DeWitt's mission was to 'get the girl to absolve your debt.' You didn't even mention the Luteces during the discussion. I'm offended that you found the story to be comprable to a 'summer popcorn flick.' It shows how much you missed.

I don't want a plot synopsis. I would have enjoyed a discussion on the theme of redemption, but that was entirely overlooked. A good spoiler section could have been about the two paths Comstock and DeWitt took to deal with the things they saw and did at Wounded Knee.

This being said, I don't listen to the CAGcast for an in-depth discussion on story. It was still entertaining to get all of your opinions, but I'm disappointed that you missed out on so much. This discussion and reaction reminds me of when you acted as though you understood RAM.

I am entertained, but frustrated.
 
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I don't really want to pile on because I think enough has already been said by many others, but that spoiler discussion was pretty bad. I don't mind really mind the content of the discussion, but if you think a game warrants a spoiler-cast portion please try to come up with an outline or something. If you did come up with an outline for it, then you did a really poor job. The discussion was just poor in general.

Onto a subject I actually have a disagreement with you all about, I don't get all the love for Tomb Raider. I enjoyed it just fine, but Shipwreck and Cheapy are really speaking about the game like it's one of the best games they've played in a long time and I just don't get it.
 
[quote name='Wombat']I read up a lot before we did the show and I understood the story. My opinion is just different than yours. Next time instead if discussing what I felt the game should have done or could have done I will read a synopsis of the plot. That seems to be what everyone wants.[/QUOTE]

Difference of opinion is fine. I'm not suggesting everyone must love this game. It has problems (some of which were raised.) There's a lot of suspension of disbelief to buy into what happens in that game, and some things are not adequately explained (Lady Comstock for instance.) There's a disconnect of the gamey parts of the game versus the seriousness of the story. That's a disconnect that's been around the whole series (eating food from garbage cans!), but is more glaring here with Elizabeth being with you the whole game. You did raise a good point why other people aren't using Vigors. Maybe there's a story reason, but they never explain that.

I'm sticking by my claim - you didn't understand the plot. Not fully anyway. You asked too many questions to prove it - questions that have answers. You may have understood the sequence of events, but during the show, you acted like you didn't understand the relevance of them. You didn't understand the multiverses (e.g. the post-credits sequence), what the tears were or how they were caused, the purpose of Columbia not wanting anything to do with the surface (you ask why aren't there rails going to the surface. Hoping you were trolling with that.) Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but if you did understand, it didn't come across in the discussion at all. The discussion boiled down to Cheapy being completely uninterested, Wombat asking questions about the plot, and Shipwreck somewhat answering them. Zero discussion of the major themes presented, if they were successful, things like that. Something beyond the surface-level plot elements. An example of what I was expecting was something like Ep. 159 of Weekend Confirmed.

[quote name='S0LIDARITY']This discussion and reaction reminds me of when you acted as though you understood RAM. [/QUOTE]

Pretty much.
 
[quote name='letsgetacid']Difference of opinion is fine. I'm not suggesting everyone must love this game. It has problems (some of which were raised.) There's a lot of suspension of disbelief to buy into what happens in that game, and some things are not adequately explained (Lady Comstock for instance.) There's a disconnect of the gamey parts of the game versus the seriousness of the story. That's a disconnect that's been around the whole series (eating food from garbage cans!), but is more glaring here with Elizabeth being with you the whole game. You did raise a good point why other people aren't using Vigors. Maybe there's a story reason, but they never explain that.

I'm sticking by my claim - you didn't understand the plot. Not fully anyway. You asked too many questions to prove it - questions that have answers. You may have understood the sequence of events, but during the show, you acted like you didn't understand the relevance of them. You didn't understand the multiverses (e.g. the post-credits sequence), what the tears were or how they were caused, the purpose of Columbia not wanting anything to do with the surface (you ask why aren't there rails going to the surface. Hoping you were trolling with that.) Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but if you did understand, it didn't come across in the discussion at all. The discussion boiled down to Cheapy being completely uninterested, Wombat asking questions about the plot, and Shipwreck somewhat answering them. Zero discussion of the major themes presented, if they were successful, things like that. Something beyond the surface-level plot elements. An example of what I was expecting was something like Ep. 159 of Weekend Confirmed.



Pretty much.[/QUOTE]

You are being too harsh, I understood all of it. It was just that I didn't find it all that compelling. Maybe I was overhyped which led to me being underwhelmed.
 
Great show as always guys. After listening to the last show I think Wombat should have his own section in the show where he rants about a game hes playing like he did with Bioshock Infinite, I really enjoyed wombats talk about Bioshock. On another note you guys mentioned about playing Halo 4 Spartan Ops together maybe you guys can have a contest where a CAG member can win a date with the gang and play Spartan Ops with you guys, also I wouldn't mind a 360 code for Poker night 2 thanks.
 
[quote name='Wombat']You are being too harsh, I understood all of it. It was just that I didn't find it all that compelling. Maybe I was overhyped which led to me being underwhelmed.[/QUOTE]You have a problem admitting when you're wrong. It's a near weekly occurrence on the show. letsgetacid was not being harsh, he was being honest.

I understand that you weren't compelled by this, but Shipwreck isn't compelled by the DC Universe. I didn't hear Shipwreck say that it's bad or poorly written. He admits that it doesn't appeal to him.

I honestly don't want to hear Bioshock Infinite discussion on the show again. Please move on next week and keep talking about the things you enjoy, I find it much more enjoyable.
 
[quote name='S0LIDARITY']You have a problem admitting when you're wrong. It's a near weekly occurrence on the show. letsgetacid was not being harsh, he was being honest.

I understand that you weren't compelled by this, but Shipwreck isn't compelled by the DC Universe. I didn't hear Shipwreck say that it's bad or poorly written. He admits that it doesn't appeal to him.

I honestly don't want to hear Bioshock Infinite discussion on the show again. Please move on next week and keep talking about the things you enjoy, I find it much more enjoyable.[/QUOTE]

I never said it was bad, I said many times I really like the game. I will be sure to discuss the game on every show moving forward. I'll call Wombat's Bioshock corner. Like some sort of infinite loop.
 
Wombat, you compared the plot to a summer popcorn movie. That's a pretty negative review of the story for me. Maybe you like summer popcorn movies a lot more than me. If you're going to do the Wombat Bioshock Corner please use various renditions of "Will the Circle be Unbroken" as a theme song.
 
Preface: I wouldn't mind getting a poker night code

Wow, absolutely loved the Bioshock discussion. The three of you each made points I strongly agreed with. Shipwreck is right in that the game is a 'success' simply because it warrants this kind of discussion. Wombat is right in that the story is totally over-written and ultimately needlessly complex. And Cheapy, I too felt the game dragged towards the end. I definitely didn't enjoy some if the fighting, especially the last major airship battle. I just wanted the game over at that point. I wouldn't define the game as necessarily enjoyable to play.

I think it's a good game, but like Wombat.... if this is the best we can hope for with modern video games (in terms of story) than it's ultimately kind of depressing. If it was a book or movie the reviews would be mediocre to poor.
 
[quote name='S0LIDARITY']Wombat, you compared the plot to a summer popcorn movie. That's a pretty negative review of the story for me. Maybe you like summer popcorn movies a lot more than me. If you're going to do the Wombat Bioshock Corner please use various renditions of "Will the Circle be Unbroken" as a theme song.[/QUOTE]

Avengers was my favorite movie if 2012 and it was a popcorn movie.
 
[quote name='Wombat']Avengers was my favorite movie if 2012 and it was a popcorn movie.[/QUOTE]
Good point, my dismay was a matter of perspective. Avengers as a story has a much broader appeal, it worked on several levels of interest. Infinite as a story really only works for those that were compelled to dig into it. Comparing the two tales beyond that gets convoluted very quickly, but I have a better understanding of your opinion now and I appreciate that.
 
I totally agree that the game fell apart once
you went thtought the first portal

I'm surprised at the number of people who are saying that the story was good,it was full of plot holes, contrivances, cliches,
too much foreshadowing, deus ex machina, and time paradoxes
.
It's totally in the popcorn movie category.

As far as the Vox populi, I wouldn't characterizes them as fighting for equal rights, rather as overthrowing an oppressor. Just look at something like the French revolution, the overthrowers can do a ton of evil.

I think that the farcry 3 is a good comparison. Both stories started of good then went to shit. But Farcry 3 carries you through it's bad story with good gameplay.
 
I'm glad Wombat decided to give Injustice a chance, it's a really fun game, even if one is not great at fighting games (like me!). I was originally not on board with Tomb Raider either, but ended up playing it and having a great time! ;)

Another quick note: I found the juxtaposition of Shipwreck enjoying Dead Island: Riptide and being confused about what Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen was rather strange. That, or maybe he just didn't like the original Dragon's Dogma and had no interest in this "new" title. But they seem like very similar products - taking a existing game, adding some new content, throwing it on a disk, and selling it at a slightly reduced price. I suppose Riptide is technically new, but seems so similar to the original that it's hardly a sequel.

Also, I would enjoy an XBLA Poker Night 2 code...if Wombat deems me worthy!
 
[quote name='iwannadie']Maybe it is more about keeping content intact. You wouldn't want the new star wars script out for voice over acting a year before the movie comes out would you? Imagine all the changes that might be mode during filming, you want to hold onto that content as long as possible.

Also, how about leaks? Imagine if the new Bioshock script was leaked a year ago and the story dissected, would you still be as excited to play it? Or imagine the newest awesome Kamen Rider story was spoiled by leaked translated scripts. It's not a huge deal if a story gets leaked when the game is already out in another country, not much you can do about it because fans could translate it as they play.

Instead, the best thing to do is hold onto all the scripts until the very last minute. I don't think they are finishing the game a year before the retail release and then just sitting on it. We all know how deadlines are, they are pushing deadlines right up until the game launch date.[/QUOTE]

If you re-read my post, then that month gap I mentioned would be the space in between the content being finished, and the content being translated. Not to mention, translated information sources, like magazines and web blogs from japan, would have already told us everything we would want to know BEFORE a North American Release.

Not to mention these are Nintendo's first party games we are talking about. Animal Crossing, Donkey Kong, and Luigi's Mansion are not game franchises known for deep plot development.

Now if we were talking about a JRPG, then yes, that would be relevant to your argument, but a majority of people buy Nintendo consoles for Mario, Zelda, Kirby etc.

But, outside of the point I'm making, Kamen Rider gets spoiled all the time, that's just the nature of the game, it's a giant toy commercial and they are advertising new toys whenever they can. Its how they build hype.

Also, I don't get spoiled by the games I want to play, because I don't go looking up information on them on a regular basis. I find out the little details, wait for the release date, read the pros and cons on a review, and then I make a conscious decision to if I want to drop the $40 on that game when amazon has a sale on it in 3 weeks from the release date.
 
[quote name='detectiveconan16']That's called piracy, and we don't allow it here on this site. Besides, unlike these quick and sloppy fansubbers, we have an expectation of localizers to give us the best possible product.[/QUOTE]

RE: Piracy
Oh bull, as if you never pirated anything before, besides, I watch the shows when they are posted to youtube or dailymotion. Can't exactly pirate something that I'm streaming can I?
Do you understand Japanese? I don't, and its not exactly like Japan is making these shows available for us either. But, they know these fan-subbers provide us with that content. Toei gets their money from American fans from toy imports. I can name at least 10 sites that sell out of Toku merchandise as soon as it is posted up for sale.

But besides that, The point im trying to make is if volunteer amateurs can sub that content in a day, why can't Nintendo PAY Professionals to translate their already finished games?

I honestly don't care how long it takes for a game to come out, I'm just agreeing with wombat.
Nintendo needs to sell software NOW if they want to survive, and right now, they are doing a poor job.
 
Fansubbing anime and localizing video games are completely different processes with vastly different levels of work required to do the job. There are also other reasons on the publishing side as to why there can be delays.
 
[quote name='beard_of_zeus']Another quick note: I found the juxtaposition of Shipwreck enjoying Dead Island: Riptide and being confused about what Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen was rather strange. That, or maybe he just didn't like the original Dragon's Dogma and had no interest in this "new" title. But they seem like very similar products - taking a existing game, adding some new content, throwing it on a disk, and selling it at a slightly reduced price. I suppose Riptide is technically new, but seems so similar to the original that it's hardly a sequel.[/QUOTE]

I had seen Riptide at PAX so I had a better idea what it was. I never got very deep into Dragon's Dogma when it came out originally, so I wasn't up to date on exactly what Dark Arisen was.
 
I feel like I want to buy Dragon Fantasy...but I feel it's a game that we'll eventually end up free on PSN...

Should I buy it now or should I wait???

You should do more spoiler cast like that

Also...if you see me fitted, I would appreciate the XBLA code for Poker night 2 :D
 
****Bioshock Inifite Spoilers****

Don’t know what Wombat is talking about in terms of plot holes, maybe he can elaborate in the forums or next podcast.

This is what I got from the story/plot when playing through the game and listening to most of the audiologs (voxophones):

Anna was born after the baptism. There's a split timeline when the baptism happened. Comstock (baptized) went off to build Columbia and accumulate massive amounts of money with his religious beliefs and Booker (not baptized) had Anna.

In one of the voxophones Comstock stated he was sterile from being in Columbia for so long so he went to another timeline through a tear (from the help of the Latteces) to purchase Anna from booker who was in major debt. The male Lattece later out of guilt decided to help booker get Anna back as a thought experiment to see how his memories worked compared to Booker during trans-dimensional travel. And thus your adventure begins as the Letteces row you to the light house.

In terms of racism: the setting is in the 1912. Comstock is an idealist and racism is prevalent in America at the time with much talk of the Aryan race and such

Comstock’s wife explained. Comstock being a religious figure killed his wife so no controversy will spread of Elizabeth being adopted. After killing her, Comstock explained to his people that such a fast birth was too much for Lady Comstock so she passed away. Lady Comstock is unable to pass on from the world having respected Comstock and became a wondering ghost

Hope this personal explanation is worthy of a Poker Night 2 Code
 
The game takes place in 1912. While you are correct that the racial attitudes displayed in the game were common during that time period, the view of Lincoln as a devil by non-southerns is nonsense. Northerns viewed Lincoln as a saint, within 10 years we would build the Lincoln Memorial. The racism stemmed more from our misguided view of Reconstruction after the Civil War from 1866-1876 (watch Birth of a Nation from 1914 to see this displayed) and growing migration of African-Americans from the south to the north to compete with ethnic whites for low skill industrial jobs.
 
[quote name='Ghetto Sithlord']I don't think the racism in BioShock Infinite was never intended to be the main focal point of the game. You have to remember that BioShock Infinite takes place in 1901, about 38 years removed from when The Emancipation Proclamation was put into effect so heavy racism would be a natural part of that time period and hence why Lincoln was portrayed as a villainous figure in Columbia.

As for there was no skyline towards the ground or lighthouse was because Columbia was constantly moving. You actually see Columbia's flight plan when you first enter the lighthouse at the beginning of the game. Also they can use the "tears" to travel. Which you actually saw happen at the end when they finally revealed when Elizabeth as a baby, was taken by Comstock. So its easy to imagine that they use "tears" to transport any supplies to and from Columbia.

The aspect of BioShock Infinite I wish you guys touched on was the future DLC for BioShock Infinite. Because of the DLC, is BioShock Infinite the complete story as we played it. What guesses you guys have on what the 3 campaign DLC will be about. I'm guessing one will at least be about the Vox revolution.

Also I would like a chance to win a Poker Night 2 code.[/QUOTE]

The game takes place in 1912. While you are correct that the racial attitudes displayed in the game were common during that time period, the view of Lincoln as a devil by non-southerns is nonsense. Northerns viewed Lincoln as a saint, within 10 years we would build the Lincoln Memorial. The racism stemmed more from our misguided view of Reconstruction after the Civil War from 1866-1876 (watch Birth of a Nation from 1914 to see this displayed) and growing migration of African-Americans from the south to the north to compete with ethnic whites for low skill industrial jobs.
 
I know Annabelle was your Dewitt's name for Elizabeth has been explained already, I just wanted add that's why Dewitt had "AD" branded into his hand for "Annabelle Dewitt". I agree with the CAG that this game has too much going on in it and should have cut somethings in order to provided a more coherent narrative. Most of the things I learned about this game was from websites or pobcasts and not from the actual game. I know some people like this "Lost" esque manner of vague story telling, I find it lazy and annoying. When at the end of a story I ask "what happened?" the story's failed. I you're interested in an in-depth conversation about Bioshock's story, check out the PC Gamer podcast: http://www.pcgamer.com/category/podcast/
 
I've been trying to stay out of this discussion, I really have, as I enjoyed Infinite and think that it surpasses the original in every possible way. I don't think the game does a bad job of explaining what is going on, I think that there's just a split camp of those who got it - the one's who give it all the praise, and those who didn't - who can admit it is a good game but don't think of it as GotY material.

Of course that's not to say everyone is either column A or B, but it seems that most fall into one or the other. At no parts during the game was I confused, and I never came across any point during the story in which I said to myself, "Oooh, plot hole.". If you spend enough time with the game and allow yourself to become immersed, everything explains itself in the end. From what I've read, just about every point the guys brought up during the Spoilercast has been explained/debunked here in the thread.

For instance, Wombat's early complaint about the in-game rendition of "God Only Knows" being played in 1912 - a full 54 years before the song would be written in actual time is explained(through both audiolog and a hidden area) in the game. I for one found it pretty awesome to stumble across familiar melodies/lyrics throughout the game("Everybody Wants To Rule The World" & "Girls Just Want To Have Fun" to name a couple more), I thought it just went to further add character to the world and put a smile on my face. Little intricacies like that in this game went a long way for me, and like many others, were part of something that presented Infinite as a neatly-wrapped package that eventually places itself at the pinnacle of gaming.

Also, I like Tomb Raider(My GotY before Infinite) & Far Cry 3 as much as the next guy, but to call them or their stories better than Infinite is indeed laughable.
 
[quote name='Mixer236']I've been trying to stay out of this discussion, I really have, as I enjoyed Infinite and think that it surpasses the original in every possible way. I don't think the game does a bad job of explaining what is going on, I think that there's just a split camp of those who got it - the one's who give it all the praise, and those who didn't - who can admit it is a good game but don't think of it as GotY material.

Of course that's not to say everyone is either column A or B, but it seems that most fall into one or the other. At no parts during the game was I confused, and I never came across any point during the story in which I said to myself, "Oooh, plot hole.". If you spend enough time with the game and allow yourself to become immersed, everything explains itself in the end. From what I've read, just about every point the guys brought up during the Spoilercast has been explained/debunked here in the thread.

For instance, Wombat's early complaint about the in-game rendition of "God Only Knows" being played in 1912 - a full 54 years before the song would be written in actual time is explained(through both audiolog and a hidden area) in the game. I for one found it pretty awesome to stumble across familiar melodies/lyrics throughout the game("Everybody Wants To Rule The World" & "Girls Just Want To Have Fun" to name a couple more), I thought it just went to further add character to the world and put a smile on my face. Little intricacies like that in this game went a long way for me, and like many others, were part of something that presented Infinite as a neatly-wrapped package that eventually places itself at the pinnacle of gaming.

Also, I like Tomb Raider(My GotY before Infinite) & Far Cry 3 as much as the next guy, but to call them or their stories better than Infinite is indeed laughable.[/QUOTE]

I think you are getting different CAGcast episodes confused. I don't think we even talked about the music in the game in this episode. Wombat made that comment a couple episodes back while he was still in the early portions of the game.
 
I found it hard to believe the guys were giving Wombat that hard of time for buying Halo 4 for $29.99 which is a great deal for a good game. I have not played Tomb Raider, but I am pretty sure Wombat will be able to get that game for $29.99 in a couple of months. It might also come at time when there aren't a lot of games to play.

I enjoyed the Bioshock discussion even though I have not played any of the games. Bioshock 1 did not appeal to me so I have sort of written off the franchise. I might have enjoyed Bioshock: Infinite based on the spoilers discussions I have listened to.

I wouldn't mind a Poker Night code.

PS

I have not heard this discussed, but has Shipwreck watched the Batman: The Animated Series cartoons from the 90s? Those are really excellent. I am a Marvel guy so I can sorta understand not liking DC, but the animated series since BTAS have been good.
 
[quote name='spid']I found it hard to believe the guys were giving Wombat that hard of time for buying Halo 4 for $29.99 which is a great deal for a good game. I have not played Tomb Raider, but I am pretty sure Wombat will be able to get that game for $29.99 in a couple of months. It might also come at time when there aren't a lot of games to play.

I enjoyed the Bioshock discussion even though I have not played any of the games. Bioshock 1 did not appeal to me so I have sort of written off the franchise. I might have enjoyed Bioshock: Infinite based on the spoilers discussions I have listened to.

I wouldn't mind a Poker Night code.

PS

I have not heard this discussed, but has Shipwreck watched the Batman: The Animated Series cartoons from the 90s? Those are really excellent. I am a Marvel guy so I can sorta understand not liking DC, but the animated series since BTAS have been good.[/QUOTE]

Yup, I watched that cartoon. It was a good show, but I just don't find Batman that appealing. I've seen and read a lot of Batman in my life and it's just not a character I ever get into. I don't hate Batman or anything, he's just not high on my list of entertainment options.
 
I'm in the same boat as spid, above. I tried to play the first Bioshock, but was infuriated at the respawn/checkpoint mechanic. Also, the game made me very dizzy but I'm not sure why, so basically I just didn't play the rest of the game or try the sequels. The idea of dying and having the same depleted amount of ammo as when I died was not what I expected. I haven't heard if this is different in the other games, but if it is, I would try the newer offerings.

Also I agree with some previous posters that the opening music was a tad over the top. I don't mind that much, but I can see why some of the people don't want to be blasting that in a house riddled with kids.

Ah, and it just so happens I have an Xbox 360 with over 60 gigs of free space on the HD that would love to be diminished by a Poker Night code. Groovy?
 
[quote name='e3vL']****Bioshock Inifite Spoilers****

Don’t know what Wombat is talking about in terms of plot holes, maybe he can elaborate in the forums or next podcast.

[/QUOTE]
The whole zepline fetch quest for one

[quote name='Mixer236']I've been trying to stay out of this discussion, I really have, as I enjoyed Infinite and think that it surpasses the original in every possible way. I don't think the game does a bad job of explaining what is going on, I think that there's just a split camp of those who got it - the one's who give it all the praise, and those who didn't - who can admit it is a good game but don't think of it as GotY material.[/QUOTE]
Actually I think it's the people who don't get it who like it. People who do get it realize the story is something you'd expect from a movie on the Scify network, but with more plot holes and paradoxes.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']Actually I think it's the people who don't get it who like it. People who do get it realize the story is something you'd expect from a movie on the Scify network, but with more plot holes and paradoxes.[/QUOTE]

Damn it your right..... All my video games and movies I enjoy should be based in reality. I should just stop watching Dr. Who also because of the pesky paradoxes on things that can't happen like time travel. No I highly enjoyed Bioshock and the story that came along with it, and I "got it". There are some plot holes, Deus Ex Mechina, maybe even a paradox or two but it was still fun and I, and many others, liked it. I admit I play games and watch tv/movies to escape real life not be reminded of how much BS is out there. Guess what dimension swapping plot holes did it for me.

Like I said before, and many have after me, Wombat got stuck on the Racism subplot and couldn't let it go. Cheapy checked out because it had alt dimensions and it wasn't a documentary based on assisted suicide in Oregon. Ship tried to move the discussion and got cut off, and makes a great point on hey it worked we are talking about it and it generated discussion just to be shot down.
 
I've just finished listening to the main part of the show & am just staring the BioShock spoiler territory. Though I'm pleased to hear from you guys (and multiple other outlets) that Injustice is a good game I just can't find myself- a DC fan- interested in playing a superhero fighting game despite any half-baked attempt to justify heroes versus heroes. That's not the game's fault of course. And someday when it's a $10 Gamefly sale deal I probably will check it out. I agree the costumes that I've seen are mostly ridiculous but then again a lot of the 'New 52' costume changes themselves are pretty damned stupid in a 'worst of the 1990s kind of way'.

Shipwreck- I am a 3DS owner who doesn't own a WiiU and have been enjoying Lego City Undercover 3DS. The draw-in rate is pretty bad but I imagine they had to do that so the character motion and gameplay quickness wouldn't be sacrificed. As much as I'd like to have the full game experience (WiiU version) there is no way I could rationalize to myself a WiiU purchase just to play it.

Cheapy- Star Trek? Ha ha- sucka! ;) But speaking of Steam games have any of you checked out the recently released 'Mars: War Logs' game on Steam? Looks pretty nice and I get sort of a Red Faction RPG feel based on the trailer so I'm considering trying it out.

And yes, if any of these comments are worthy enough, I'd love to be the recipient of a code for Poker Night 2. What an amazing roster of characters!
 
Infinite ending discussion

As for wombat's suggestion of 'why can it just be a guy looking for his daughter', well that's pretty much the story of Bioshock 2...While not related by blood, but rather by the pair bonding of the big daddy/little sister process, Bioshock 2 is a story of a man looking to find and rescue his 'daughter'.

Personally, I thought the vigors were the thing out of place in the story and that it seemed like, the developer said...'well, if we have bioshock on the front cover, I guess we need some game mechanism for the player to set enemies on fire'. I think the infinite story would have made more sense without them. The development of plasmids made sense in the context of world of bioshock 1 and 2 (Fontaine trying to subvert/overthrow Ryan...or at a minimum, they go out of their way to explain how they came to be)...The vigors make much less sense in the world of infinite...it isn't like the vox populi are the ones who developed the vigors....and they are dumped into the player's lap with pretty much no explanation at all.

I'd be up for a poker night code.
 
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[quote name='shipwreck']I think you are getting different CAGcast episodes confused. I don't think we even talked about the music in the game in this episode. Wombat made that comment a couple episodes back while he was still in the early portions of the game.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I know, I was just using that as an example because even we he first said that I just thought to myself,"But x happens and y explains it even more!". It was just something that nagged on me ever since and I went ahead and brought it up since it wasn't further addressed.

But yeah, opinions!
 
I think the show needs a guest host of Mrs Shipwreck as a throwback to cagforeplay.

Maybe further along the pregnancy to announce the baby's sex.

poker night? sure I hear glados is a heck of a good dealer, I'd love a code
 
Nice show guys, thanks.

It was refreshing to hear some of the negative aspects of Bioshock Infinite from gamers I tend to trust. I too thought Infinate was a decent shooter with unbelievable production value. And that makes for a great game. But I too found that I did not like the way the story progressed. I was also bothered by the fact that the vigors seemed to simply be a carry-over from the original Boishock but did not seem integral to the game world. As far as story, the original Bioshock has in no way been surpassed here.

I think you guys hit the nail on the head when you were talking about Ken simply having too many story ideas to put into this game and it all ended up being a bit of a mess. I am also getting a bit tired of the "multi-verse" plot line. Its hard to care about any consequences when each different decision could/does result in a different universe. While interesting and "smart" its tough to make that into a compelling story.

Another odd thing I thought of at the beginning of the game was that all that Elizabeth wanted was to go to Paris. So why did she just not escape through the tear she created right into Paris at the beginning of the game :)

Anyway, I still enjoyed the game quite a bit and thought the world and gameplay were very impressive. But other games this year, like Tomb Raider, deserve much more of the praise being directed toward Infinite. But Infinite is riding a bit on the great reputation of its predecessor and some great production.
 
The Bioshock talk was literally terrible. I feel like Shipwreck was trying to converse about these complicated topics with children. Many things that were nuanced or not blatantly, outright explained seemed to go zooming over Wombat's head. In fact, most of what Wombat said was extremely idiotic. If I, Shipwreck, and other people understood the majority of the game and its nuances just fine, is it the game's fault that you couldn't keep up?

I also love how he couldn't grasp the fact that the Vox could also be bad. They weren't necessarily fighting for equal rights for all. They were fighting for their own equal rights, which anyone who is oppressed would want. That doesn't mean that they're good people. It doesn't change human nature, which is what this is really about. Wombat has shown time and time again that he is a PC drone, but it's funny how these mindsets--which are extremely pervasive in the America of today, mind you--are actually hindering to his overall thought process. They wanted equal rights, but they are still humans. That's the point: human nature. Everyone has those types of things in them, and this is also showing that if the Vox were the ruling class, or the majority, they would do the same thing that the whites did. I think that is another extremely important point.

I am 110% for equality for every possible person. That means equality, though, and nothing else. America is not equal. Some stupid little thing with a black person makes national news, but we go buy tickets to movies and watch TV shows and stand up comics of black people talking shit about caucasian folk. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that (racial stereotypes of all races can be funny, including whites), but if that went the other way it would be an incident that makes national news. I think this game was really trying to remind us that the underlying thread is human nature, not the amount of melanin located in a person's epidermis.

Love the show, always entertaining, but God damn, Wombat is an oxygen thief.
 
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[quote name='Zaku77']The Bioshock talk was literally terrible. I feel like Shipwreck was trying to converse about these complicated topics with children. Many things that were nuanced or not blatantly, outright explained seemed to go zooming over Wombat's head. In fact, most of what Wombat said was extremely idiotic. If I, Shipwreck, and other people understood the majority of the game and its nuances just fine, is it the game's fault that you couldn't keep up?

I also love how he couldn't grasp the fact that the Vox could also be bad. They weren't necessarily fighting for equal rights for all. They were fighting for their own equal rights, which anyone who is oppressed would want. That doesn't mean they they're good people. It doesn't change human nature, which is what this is really about. Wombat has shown time and time again that he is a PC drone, but it's funny how these mindsets--which are extremely pervasive in the America of today, mind you--are actually hindering to his overall thought process. They wanted equal rights, but they are still humans. That's the point: human nature. Everyone has those types of things in them, and this is also showing that if the Vox were the ruling class, or the majority, they would do the same thing that the whites did. I think that is another extremely important point.

I am 110% for equality for every possible person. That means equality, though, and nothing else. America is not equal. Some stupid little thing with a black person makes national news, but we go buy tickets to movies and watch TV shows and stand up comics of black people talking shit about caucasian folk. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that (racial stereotypes of all races can be funny, including whites), but if that went the other way it would be an incident that makes national news. I think this game was really trying to remind us that the underlying thread is human nature, not the amount of melanin located in a person's epidermis.

Love the show, always entertaining, but God damn, Wombat is an oxygen thief.[/QUOTE]

I am about 99% sure you didn't understand a word I said. Also I am about 75% sure you are a racist.
 
[quote name='Kfoster1979']Damn it your right..... All my video games and movies I enjoy should be based in reality. I should just stop watching Dr. Who also because of the pesky paradoxes on things that can't happen like time travel. No I highly enjoyed Bioshock and the story that came along with it, and I "got it". There are some plot holes, Deus Ex Mechina, maybe even a paradox or two but it was still fun and I, and many others, liked it. I admit I play games and watch tv/movies to escape real life not be reminded of how much BS is out there. Guess what dimension swapping plot holes did it for me. [/QUOTE]
There is a difference between good Scifi movies and the crap movies that are on the Scify network. Bioshock is bad Scifi.

I'm guessing you didn't get it since you didn't understand the criticism and think timetravel = Paradox.
going back in time before you where born and basically killing your dad = Paradox.(And to clarify for people who are to simple to understand it other wise, Comstock turned Anna into Elizabeth, no Comstock = no Elizabeth.)


[quote name='Kfoster1979']
Like I said before, and many have after me, Wombat got stuck on the Racism subplot and couldn't let it go. Cheapy checked out because it had alt dimensions and it wasn't a documentary based on assisted suicide in Oregon. [/QUOTE]
That's because almost every story where you go jumping around the multiverse halfway through end up losing focus on the original plot and the consequences of actions losing meaning.
 
I think I agree with Zaku77's sentiment, in that I'm quite tired of the news trying to tell a story, and cram someone's race, religion, ethnicity, or gender down my throat as if there was some sort of conspiracy to discriminate against them. We are not sub-classes of people, we're people. and we're not victims, we can and should take control of our lives to better them, and better others. Don't get dragged down by silly, meaningless labels. No person is more or less important than you, even though they may act like it, or in the case of certain internet personalities, like they can't remove the corncob from their corncob compartment.
 
The Bioshock discussion was worthless. Wombat complaining about the lack of parachutes for 10 minutes was such a waste of time. It was like he played the game with excessive amounts of kids in the background, and didn't understand why everyone was talking about the game. We need a mute Wombat button to stop him from talking sometimes.
 
A few things here from me...

I've got mixed feelings on Dragon's Crown-I'm stoked for the game, as I'll buy nearly anything Atlus makes..but I'll be honest in saying I'll only play it when my wife is at work/not home. It'll save me the "why does she look like that/why are you playing a game with that in it?" talk, and everyone wins in the end! Really though-they coulda dialed it back. Can't recall an Atlus game that had 'things' to that extreme!

Speaking of my wife-she recently approached me and asked me why I hadn't bought a Wii U yet. She usually keeps me dialed back with game purchases, and was wondering why I hadn't been bugging her to get one...I told her that there wasn't really anything worth playing that I didn't have on another console already and she said "well, they really screwed up that release then, huh?" I've never been more proud of my wife!

Keep up the great work! Love listening to these on my ride into work. Oh, and toss my name in the hat for the Poker Night 2 code if still available!
 
[quote name='Wombat']I am about 99% sure you didn't understand a word I said. Also I am about 75% sure you are a racist.[/QUOTE]


I agree with Wombat; you are likely a racist.
 
[quote name='Hoarr']God, I'm looking forward to next week's CAGcast. :)[/QUOTE]

lol same here. Great show guys. Keep up the good work!
 
[quote name='Wombat']I read up a lot before we did the show and I understood the story. My opinion is just different than yours. Next time instead if discussing what I felt the game should have done or could have done I will read a synopsis of the plot. That seems to be what everyone wants.[/QUOTE]

You thought there was time travel until Ship explained what was going on.....

It was also obvious what was going to with the Vox revolution as Elizabeth mentioned the French Revolution several times.

Poker Night code please.
 
Totally agree with Ship about Dragon's Crown. Ridiculous and harmless. Nothing to be offended about. It's just a silly cartoony video game chick.
 
On Localization:

It isn't a matter of not wanting to wait Shipwreck. It's that this is another slap in the face to Western Audiences reminding us that Nintendo's number 1 priority is and always has been Japan. Gamers in North America are tired of being reminded that they are not Nintendo's core audience. Japan gets releases earlier, has features designed for them that most North Americans will never use (street pass), and even gets the occasional title we won't ever see over here.

For North American Nintendo fans, it's frustrating, and I bet Japanese Microsoft fans feel the same way. The difference is that the 360 proves that Microsoft can do well focusing heavily on North America whereas Nintendo's latest economic forecast shows that their Japan-centric vision isn't working.

The Dragon's Crown Controversy:

Having a woman with a huge chest isn't a huge deal on the whole, but look at the other female offerings available if you want to understand why some people are upset with the decision. The only women that the game allows us to play are sexualized in a blatant over the top fashion. Imagine if the opposite was true, and all the men were Edward Cullen looking pretty boys with monumental penises barely contained by tight leather pants. Would you want to play as one of these characters? Wouldn't you much rather feel like a badass by playing someone of your gender in a cool costume who exists as more than eye candy?

Women have a hard time finding avatars that they can relate with in a lot of games. Many don't even offer female playable characters, and it sucks.

We should want our fellow gamers, whether they are women or men, to be able to customize their experience into something they enjoy the way we can and do. It's good for the industry and it's good for us.

God knows enough men bitch about wanting a "gamer girlfriend." Wanting women to partake in your hobby while also wanting it to stay an arena that primarily caters to dudes is contradictory.
 
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