CAGcast #98: Penny Arcade Sucks

damnit....now i have to pay for contra 4.... Cheapy youve just joined the massive list of people who make my life hard by making me work and pay for things.... for shame.
 
Hey CheapyD and Wombat

Just wanted to say great show. One thing about the Pennyarcade vs. IGN issue, debate, or whatever you want to call it.

I think what is missing from this "debate" is the fact that no matter what, it is still the listeners responsibility in terms of what to do with the information. Personally, I enjoy visiting several game websites including Pennyarcade and the 1up site (and yours is the best of course). I read all the info, gather the data for my brain to analyze and then compare those opinions with my own style and wants and needs in terms of what I am looking for in the game, then make my purchase or rental choices. But when a review does not match my own personal view, I do not take it personally. I find Pennyarcade's reviews and info just as valuable as any others and it is ultimately up to me in terms of what to do with the information. Again yours is the most valuable because in this day of age where I have commute far to work and @#$%#$%$#%$# gas prices are ridiculous, I need to be a cheap ass gamer.

Looking forward to your next show guys.
 
If you ever do have the PA idiots on, give a warning please. I'll skip that show thanks. Nothing like listening to two arrogant assholes who think they're saving video games through their unfunny satire comics.
 
I don't see your complaints about the Rock Band DLC to be very valid. The downloads thenselves were packs of three. And each pack featured a different artist.

If you looked at the tracks in the game, each artist already had a song in the game. They'regiving the gamers an option to buy more tracks from these artists just incase is it one of their favorite bands.

I for one am glad that there wern't three more metallica songs in the game, cause now I won't be forced to play a mystery set and have to hear that ass hat singing the whole time.
 
CheapyD, I have never post or visit CAG, but I have been a listener of the CAG for a long time (for how long don't remeber but more than a year.)However I have to register on CAG (from a mobile phone no less) just tell you the ending of CA is really that bad. It's bad not not becuase its provided no closure: not because it was left wide open for sequels: its bad becuase it hides itself behind a bunch of completed unrelated mystical symbols. It's very pretentious and failed terrible.The sad thing is the gameplay is not going yo be compel enough for you to stick around to find out the ending yourself.(Apologize for any spelling error, I have to type this on a phone.)
 
What's CA?

Regardless--my, all these comments. Sigh. I wanted the spotlight.

I think you do read them all, though, Cheapy, even if it would be impossible to reply to them all, so I just want to let you know that I get irrationally excited every time a new CAGCast goes up. I adore you and Wombat. I'm new to CAG (joined up two weeks ago), and I love the site. It's perfect for me. I've been a cheap ass gamer for years upon years, and I finally found home.

I had a bit of trouble getting the CAGCast as well, surprisingly, but it does seem to be downloading fine onto my PSP now off RSS.

I haven't listened yet, but for what it's worth, I totally agree that Penny Arcade is being ridiculously obnoxious.

Sorry for the babbliness. I guess I'm taking advantage of the fact that you read all these. This is a pretty nice community, though. We've got a lot of intelligent people here, and it's nice not to see a ton of flaming, terrible grammar and stupidity like is prevalent on most boards.

Thanks for everything, Cheapy. You deserve this success, so please keep it up.
 
I (of course) haven't listened to the CAGcast yet, but one thing I do know about the IGN and Penny Arcade drama is that Penny Arcade comics are included with the limited edition version of Assassin's Creed. Kind of throws PA's opinions out the window.

Assassin's Creed Limited Edition includes!
  • Premium tin box packaging
  • Collectible 3-inch Altair figure
  • Mini strategy guide
  • Penny Arcade comics
  • Bonus disc including:
    - Finalists of Assassin’s Creed short film contest
    - Developer diaries
    - Trailers
    - Producer interview
 
[quote name='outlawmoogle']I (of course) haven't listened to the CAGcast yet, but one thing I do know about the IGN and Penny Arcade drama is that Penny Arcade comics are included with the limited edition version of Assassin's Creed. Kind of throws PA's opinions out the window.[/QUOTE]
That's a good point. Hadn't even thought of that!
 
[quote name='outlawmoogle']I (of course) haven't listened to the CAGcast yet, but one thing I do know about the IGN and Penny Arcade drama is that Penny Arcade comics are included with the limited edition version of Assassin's Creed. Kind of throws PA's opinions out the window.

Assassin's Creed Limited Edition includes!
  • Premium tin box packaging
  • Collectible 3-inch Altair figure
  • Mini strategy guide
  • Penny Arcade comics
  • Bonus disc including:
    - Finalists of Assassin’s Creed short film contest
    - Developer diaries
    - Trailers
    - Producer interview
[/quote]
They did a lot more than that for Assassin's Creed.
  • Penny Arcade took part in the AC ad sales and ad creation on their site
  • they've been raving about the game in their editorial content for a long while
  • they've done at least one comic about it
No matter how anyone spins it, Penny Arcade had a vested interest in Assassin's Creed and Ubisoft. The very same guys, Gabe and Tycho, who wrote/drew/talked glowingly about Assassin's Creed. The very same Gabe who attacked other reviewers' credibility to defend Assassin's Creed.

That being said, I still don't agree with how the IGN guy handled the situation.
 
[quote name='outlawmoogle']I (of course) haven't listened to the CAGcast yet, but one thing I do know about the IGN and Penny Arcade drama is that Penny Arcade comics are included with the limited edition version of Assassin's Creed. Kind of throws PA's opinions out the window.

Assassin's Creed Limited Edition includes!
  • Premium tin box packaging
  • Collectible 3-inch Altair figure
  • Mini strategy guide
  • Penny Arcade comics
  • Bonus disc including:
    - Finalists of Assassin’s Creed short film contest
    - Developer diaries
    - Trailers
    - Producer interview
[/quote]

Yes, I think most people that aren't rushing to judgement and making off-the-cuff remarks knew this when in the preface of the rant that offended IGN, "Gabe" used 498 words (four paragraphs) to explain their advertising strategy and past experiences with advertising with publishers/developers and how it relates to their association to Assassin's Creed.

You can still hold it against them if you want, but it's hardly some nefarious, hidden scandal.
 
who was that guest caller from black friday that you spliced on to the end of the podcast? all i could remember was that she was married to someone on the brady bunch.

great podcast once again. really gets me through a thursday at work!
 
About the whole Penny Arcade thing... I personally don't care what Gabe has to say. It's true Jeff may have been out of line on the IGN podcast (which I bet he'd admit eventually), but Jeff didn't even write the review, I don't think; it was Hilary as far as I know.

And they didn't even say Assassin's Creed was *bad*, you know. They gave it a 7.7. That's not that bad at all. It basically goes exactly along with what Cheapy said about the game. Pretty cool but really repetitive.

I listen to the IGN podcasts, not just the CAGCast (I listen to the 1up podcast as well, and I think they basically ignored Penny Arcade).

I tend to agree with IGN's assessment of the game, even Jeff's sentiments, although he probably got his emotion get the better of him. I don't think he was jealous, though. He likes his job. Most of those guys do.

And hey, I wanna hear more about the naked 17 year-old in--what game was that? Turok? ha, what the hell? That's funny. I'm gonna have to google it.
 
[quote name='outlawmoogle'] I (of course) haven't listened to the CAGcast yet, but one thing I do know about the IGN and Penny Arcade drama is that Penny Arcade comics are included with the limited edition version of Assassin's Creed. Kind of throws PA's opinions out the window.

Assassin's Creed Limited Edition includes!
  • Penny Arcade comics
[/quote] [quote name='Kosh']They did a lot more than that for Assassin's Creed.
  • Penny Arcade took part in the AC ad sales and ad creation on their site
  • they've been raving about the game in their editorial content for a long while
  • they've done at least one comic about it
No matter how anyone spins it, Penny Arcade had a vested interest in Assassin's Creed and Ubisoft. The very same guys, Gabe and Tycho, who wrote/drew/talked glowingly about Assassin's Creed. The very same Gabe who attacked other reviewers' credibility to defend Assassin's Creed.
[/quote]
This just got funny, nice catch you two. It's a shame that Jeff guy didn't catch on to this (or Wombat and Cheapy for that matter) it might have actually made his rant more interesting.

Cheapy said they're rich though and selling out is an easy way to make money, kind of ironic given some of the arguements the Penny Arcade guys have used against reviewers.
 
[quote name='swerv']This just got funny, nice catch you two. It's a shame that Jeff guy didn't catch on to this (or Wombat and Cheapy for that matter) it might have actually made his rant more interesting.

Cheapy said they're rich though and selling out is an easy way to make money, kind of ironic given some of the arguements the Penny Arcade guys have used against reviewers.[/quote]

As I said above, if you read the original post that got the IGN guy pissed, this was fully disclosed right at the start of the AC rant.

"Nice catch"? You sure give credit to odd things. "Way to breathe, eat, and sleep, you guys!"
 
Lovin' Mass Effect so far. Also in the Citadel like Wombat--good observation about the possible basis for ME, BTW Wombat. My character ended up looking like Gillian Anderson, but I ended up calling her Jennifer. Yay I'm not creative.

And lolz @ the self-absorbed retard @ IGN thinking the gaming world revolves around him/them. Very clever attacking Penny Arcade for ratings/page views. I was wondering about the odd Title of this week's CAGcast...
 
[quote name='yoinksta']who was that guest caller from black friday that you spliced on to the end of the podcast? all i could remember was that she was married to someone on the brady bunch.

great podcast once again. really gets me through a thursday at work![/quote]

Adrianne Curry.
 
I wanna know more about this sign-up-as-a-minor-and-get-no-ads-on-Xbox-Live. Are there any downsides to it? I'd give up my lame achievement point total if I could start over and have no ads.
 
the added irony regarding the penny arcade/ign dispute is that the Jeff guy that went on the rant for IGN wasn't even the person that reviewed Assassins Creed. Hilary Goldstein reviewed Assassins Creed for IGN.

Yeah, Jeff from IGN was way out of line. But Gabe really doesn't know what he's talking about in his retort either. Hilary on the other hand, seems content to just laugh about the whole thing and make fun of everyone involved...

Edit: BEAT'D!! My head asplode!
 
[quote name='swerv']This just got funny, nice catch you two. It's a shame that Jeff guy didn't catch on to this (or Wombat and Cheapy for that matter) it might have actually made his rant more interesting.
[/quote]
There is no "catch" since Gabe laid out their involvement with AC and Ubisoft in his rant post. This fact wasn't hidden from the public. The post in question is linked here. Their relationship with Ubisoft wasn't always rosy.

Some of the people here seem to not actually have read the rant post in question and just going off with what they heard on IGN and CAGs podcasts.
 
[quote name='outlawmoogle']I (of course) haven't listened to the CAGcast yet, but one thing I do know about the IGN and Penny Arcade drama is that Penny Arcade comics are included with the limited edition version of Assassin's Creed. Kind of throws PA's opinions out the window.

Assassin's Creed Limited Edition includes!
  • Premium tin box packaging
  • Collectible 3-inch Altair figure
  • Mini strategy guide
  • Penny Arcade comics
  • Bonus disc including:
    - Finalists of Assassin’s Creed short film contest
    - Developer diaries
    - Trailers
    - Producer interview
[/quote]
And that is why Gabe prefaced his defense of AC with this:

I want to talk about Assassins Creed but first I need to get something out of the way. I have a lot to say about the game and I want to talk about some of the bad reviews it's getting but I want to make sure everyone understands I'm not saying this because of the comic we did for them. So I'm going to link you to an old set of news posts about Prince of Persia 2. Feel free to read those and come back if you like.

Now I'm going to tell you how advertising on PA works. Every other game site out there takes ads for whatever game they can get. It doesn't matter if it's a pile of crap, if the publisher pays for the spot IGN or Gamespot or whoever will run the ad. That's fine but that's not how we do it and the news posts you just read are part of the reason why.

We were huge fans of the first Prince of Persia game so when Ubi came to us and wanted to run ads for the second we said yes. We had no idea they were going to completely fuck it over. So from then on we started demanding playable copies of games before we'd agree to advertising. No matter how early the build we tell the publishers that unless we can see it played in front of us or play it ourselves we won't run ads for it. Obviously a lot can still go wrong during development but we make the best decisions we can. We do not think of the ads you see on our page as ads. They are recommendations and we try extremely hard to insure that anything we put over there is worth your time. When Prince of Persia 2 came out and we saw that it was crap we said as much on the site. Ads for the game appeared right next to those news posts slamming it. Needless to say Ubi wasn't very happy and Robert got some angry phone calls but our loyalty is to our readers not the people paying the bills. We explained to Ubi that the reason our ads perform better than any other site out there is because our readers trust us and that means we have to admit when something we advertise doesn't turn out as good as we hoped. Obviously they understood because we're still advertising their games but like I said this isn't the way other sites operate. I actually give Ubi a lot of credit for not just telling us to fuck off and buying more ads on IGN and Gamespy with the extra money.

I'm telling you all this because I want you to understand that if Assassins Creed actually was a 7.0 game I'd tell you. I also want you to know that when I tell you it's fucking incredible I'm not bullshitting you because we're running ads for the game.

I can't really say much regarding this, since I haven't played AC yet. But I think Jeff (is that his name?) going off on Gabe was a bit ridiculous. All he was saying was that don't listen to reviewers like sheep and give the game a try. Not sure why he got all butthurt over it, he didn't specifically say "IGN" or "That douche at IGN named Jeff." I think the guy has mental issues or something.
 
Well, IGN had better watch out. Penny-Arcade might make a comic about the situation if they haven't already. That'll teach IGN.
 
Ef IGN. the only good things about ign are the girls, Hilary Goldstein, Fran Mirabella and Jessica Chobot, the three red rings podcast they have is really the only one worth listening to mostly thanks to Hilary.

yeah i know hilary and fran are dudes
 
[quote name='ckranger11']As I said above, if you read the original post that got the IGN guy pissed, this was fully disclosed right at the start of the AC rant.

"Nice catch"? You sure give credit to odd things. "Way to breathe, eat, and sleep, you guys!"[/quote]

Oh, right. So, you're saying the money Gabe recieved for all the work he did on this game didn't influence him in advocating the game? Why, just because he said so before ragging on the low score some reviewer gave the game? So, no matter what he says, it's absolutely true?

Of course, things like this are a huge problem in the video game media industry. Too many money hats changing hands.
 
[quote name='Kosh']Oh, right. So, you're saying the money he recieved for all the work he did on this game didn't influence him in advocating the game? Why, just because he said so before ragging on the low score some reviewer gave the game? So, no matter what he says, it's absolutely true?

Of course, things like this are a huge problem in the video game media industry. Too many money hats changing hands.[/QUOTE]

You must not know....anything about Penny Arcade.

At all.
 
All this shit about AC getting mixed reviews and the backlash is kind of funny.
Everyone is acting like there has never been a "love it or hate it" game before it. I love Animal Crossing but some gamers hate it. I hated Dead Rising but some people love it. AC is in the same boat.
 
I think you should try and set up an interview with Bill Murray & Dan Akroyd (though you'll probably just end up with Harold Ramis) about the Ghostbusters game. Do they really think one gun will sustain enough gameplay to make this thing decent? I have a feeling it is going to be a lot of looking around for crap and lame jumping puzzles.


I tuned in for about 20 seconds of Cheapy's live Thanksgiving show. Just long enough to hear this awkward exchange:

Cheapy: What's with that accent? Where you from, Boston?
Accent Guy: I'm from England.
Cheapy: Oh.

I didn't think it could get any better than that, so I left on that high note.


I don't have much of a problem with the downloadable content for Rock Band in general, I just wish there was different song selections. I want "No One Knows" which was on the first Guitar Hero, but never made it to any of the dl content for the other games. Instead, they put out a bunch of Queens of the Stone Age songs I don't know. They should already have the guitar parts to "No One Knows" so why can't they just throw together the drums and bass and go?
 
[quote name='Kosh']Oh, right. So, you're saying the money he recieved for all the work he did on this game didn't influence him in advocating the game? Why, just because he said so before ragging on the low score some reviewer gave the game? So, no matter what he says, it's absolutely true?

Of course, things like this are a huge problem in the video game media industry. Too many money hats changing hands.[/quote]
No, not at all. I've seen Penny-Arcade openly bash a game, even with fucking ads of the game right next to the article!

You rarely see it now, because as Gabe already stated: They don't do any work for a game (comics and what have you) or allow any ads on their site from a game they haven't played and enjoy. Besides, why would Tycho & Gabe risk their credibility over one game? It's not going to happen, they are not going to be utter fucking sellouts like the guys at IGN have proven to be in the past.
 
[quote name='thorbahn3']All this shit about AC getting mixed reviews and the backlash is kind of funny.
Everyone is acting like there has never been a "love it or hate it" game before it. I love Animal Crossing but some gamers hate it. I hated Dead Rising but some people love it. AC is in the same boat.[/QUOTE]

This is something I was thinking about last night after I made my post about Cheapy's "Super Frank Galaxy" comments (and how SMG didn't deserve the top spot which it doesn't have anyway at this point). The thing about Super Mario Galaxy is that it is a SOLID Mario game very accessible to a wide range of gamers so it is very unlikely to receive any "hate", unlike more controversial titles. So the very high average score is no surprise.

Though I don't want to call it a kids game, compare it to, say, a top-tier Pixar movie. According to Rotten Tomatoes, Toy Story 2 is the best movie of all time. (Actually, they have expanded their rankings quite a bit since the last time I looked - it shares 100% with MANY other movies, including many old ones but is on top because it has the highest number of reviews). But would any of us consider it THE best movie of all time? Probably not. But perhaps it is the best movie of all time in terms of general likeability. I think Mario Galaxy qualifies for that over things like Orange Box and Bioshock for sure.
 
[quote name='Strell']You must not know....anything about Penny Arcade.

At all.[/quote]

I know they have a lot of sheep.
 
[quote name='Kosh']I know they have a lot of sheep.[/QUOTE]

You know, it is extraordinarily easy for someone to use your little tactic. It takes no forethought, no planning, no anything. All you have to do is dismiss something you don't know anything about, and if anyone says otherwise, you can just as easily call that person a sheep. It's an old and tired tactic, but it gets used on the Internets quite a bit as if it were taken from Sun Tzu himself.

I hope you know that you're accomplishing nothing. Opening up yourself by making comments that are baseless in nature, and then not offering to listen to anyone who says otherwise makes you look like an ass.

And I'd rather be a "sheep" than an ass any day.

So continue to dismiss everything I could possibly have to say, perched atop your little superiority high horse all you want, ok junior?

I mean it would be one thing if you could back up any of your accusations. But you can't, which tells me that no one should listen to you, attempt to argue with you, or say anything further.
 
[quote name='Kosh']Oh, right. So, you're saying the money he recieved for all the work he did on this game didn't influence him in advocating the game? Why, just because he said so before ragging on the low score some reviewer gave the game? So, no matter what he says, it's absolutely true?

Of course, things like this are a huge problem in the video game media industry. Too many money hats changing hands.[/quote]

How did you get that out of what you quoted? I was simply pointing out that the guys who think they're unearthing some big scoop by saying UbiSoft and PA have a marketing agreement are completely clueless to the situation at hand.

Reading comprehension, much? Come to think of it, maybe that's why you don't like Penny Arcade.
 
[quote name='ckranger11']How did you get that out of what you quoted? I was simply pointing out that the guys who think they're unearthing some big scoop by saying UbiSoft and PA have a marketing agreement are completely clueless to the situation at hand.

Reading comprehension, much? Come to think of it, maybe that's why you don't like Penny Arcade.[/quote]


I don't think anyone thought they were unearthing some big scoop. Where did you get that idea? I was just pointing out the obvious and it wasn't brought up in the show. That's the only reason I pointed it out.

I think the only reason Gabe said that upfront was because he knew he was going to look bad. However, that still doesn't mean he couldn't have been lying and have an ulterior motive. Of course, his flock buys into everytime, just ask Strell, one of Gabe's sheep.
 
[quote name='Kosh']Of course, his flock buys into everytime, just ask Strell, one of Gabe's sheep.[/QUOTE]

You'll go far at McDonald's, kid.
 
I couldn't care less about their little pansy feud.

I do however care about this stupid DLC already on the disk, but you have to pay to download a 80KB file to unlock the stupid stuff. Companies need to stop that shit. People need to take those people to task. Do it CAGcast, do it.
 
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