CAGcast #98: Penny Arcade Sucks

the whole concept of game reviews is pretty obsolete. you can look at video footage to see what the game looks and plays like and if you really need to get hands on you can rent games cheap enough to see whats what. add to that many gamess can be bought down the road on the cheap ( and with that many poorly reviewed games are pretty fun when you pay very little for them) theres really not much of a need for reviewers. not to mention all the rampant fanboy bullshit and scores being affected by money and why bother? hell any official magazine for any game console will always inflate games way more than they should. videos, rentals are the way to go.
 
[quote name='Strell']You know, it is extraordinarily easy for someone to use your little tactic. It takes no forethought, no planning, no anything. All you have to do is dismiss something you don't know anything about, and if anyone says otherwise, you can just as easily call that person a sheep. It's an old and tired tactic, but it gets used on the Internets quite a bit as if it were taken from Sun Tzu himself.

I hope you know that you're accomplishing nothing. Opening up yourself by making comments that are baseless in nature, and then not offering to listen to anyone who says otherwise makes you look like an ass.

And I'd rather be a "sheep" than an ass any day.

So continue to dismiss everything I could possibly have to say, perched atop your little superiority high horse all you want, ok junior?

I mean it would be one thing if you could back up any of your accusations. But you can't, which tells me that no one should listen to you, attempt to argue with you, or say anything further.[/QUOTE]

I don't really care about PA or IGN one way or the other, but you're getting awfully defensive over one sentence that you yourself discount as being utter nonsense. Better to just ignore him because that long retort to an inflammatory one-liner looks like someone trying to convince themself.
 
wow, that's awesome. Cheapy's brush with mainstream fame in that live test show, hee hee. she's a definite hottie. :)

btw Cheapy and Wombat, i agree that Mass Effect is awesome even with all the technical glitches. try putting on a Railgun attachment on your pistol. it sounds like a freakin cannon ^.^

welcome back boys. ^_^
 
I feel insulted that Cheapy was compelled to review a game in the cast after playing it for probably less than 5 minutes.

Good as a platform game?

I call for Cheapy to admit that he just doesn't GET certain games.
He says Drake's Fortune has "personality" but the only thing he can muster up about Mario is that Super Frank's Galaxy would be less popular because it's not Mario?

Drake's Fortune is great because it's "cinematic"... this is not the first time Cheapy has merited a game for being "cinematic"...

And of course Cheapy is concerned about the absence of blood in the game if you have a Japanese PS3... please Cheapy, just admit that you like the game because it reminds you of Indiana Jones, because it's violent and action-packed, and filled with alpha-male movie cliches, things that Cheapy GETS.

But Mario? Does Galaxy lack cinematic presentation? Is it a game without personality? Is it just a good platformer?

Please Cheapy, just admit that you are a very selective gamer who just doesn't GET games with the kind of style and presentation of Galaxy.
 
That interview was pretty amusing. She sounded pretty loaded too. Who was co-hosting with Cheapy?

As for my Question on the CAG GamerPics on XBL, I'd be willing to pony up if you have to charge for them. I always vowed I wouldn't pay for GamerPics but for CAG I'll break my rule.
 
I always look forward to the weekly CAGCast. There is one question that I have for Wombat. Did you say that your favorite Mario game was Super Mario Bros. 2? I can't say that I agree, but I'm interested in hearing why it is your favorite Mario game.

Cheapy, I'm going to be a new dad soon. I was wondering if you had any tips on how to still game and do the parent thing. I'm guessing I'll be cutting back my time on Halo 3 and other online games and playing more Live Arcade or single player games (which I don't mind).

Keep up the good work!

ObiBen8.png


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[quote name='ObiBen']

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fyi: you can't use images stored on you local hdd. upload it to photobucket or similar, then link it.
 
For paid xbox picks the cag could use the share of the profits for prizes, for the cags so the money goes back to the community. I would defintely buy picks no matter what. I've saved more than a dollar since I've become a cag.
 
[quote name='ObiBen']I always look forward to the weekly CAGCast. There is one question that I have for Wombat. Did you say that your favorite Mario game was Super Mario Bros. 2? I can't say that I agree, but I'm interested in hearing why it is your favorite Mario game.

Cheapy, I'm going to be a new dad soon. I was wondering if you had any tips on how to still game and do the parent thing. I'm guessing I'll be cutting back my time on Halo 3 and other online games and playing more Live Arcade or single player games (which I don't mind).

Keep up the good work!

ObiBen8.png


moz-screenshot.jpg
[/quote]

PM sent!
 
[quote name='ObiBen']I always look forward to the weekly CAGCast. There is one question that I have for Wombat. Did you say that your favorite Mario game was Super Mario Bros. 2? I can't say that I agree, but I'm interested in hearing why it is your favorite Mario game.[/quote]

Dollars to donuts he meant SMB3. They've confused SMB2 and 3 on the CAGcast before.

My favorite part of this episode? That the ad inserter felt that the most likely spot for the mid-show Navy ad was immediately following the Gabe/Tycho poop-eating digression. Nice. One load of shit deserves another, I guess. :roll:

Cheapy, I kind of understand others' frustration about you casually passing judgement on Galaxy with one star under your belt (and shame on Wombat for basically agreeing, saying that ridiculously brief playtime was enough to glean an accurate overall impression since "the gameplay doesn't change that much later on"). Excuse me? Meanwhile, Drake's Fortune and Mass Effect get starry-eyed, 15-minute discussions. I understand your play time is limited. As you pointed out, you have a stack of games and a new baby vying for your attention right now. But if that's the case, simply table discussion of the title until you actually get some legitimate playtime with it. Don't fart out a review simply to fill out the Nintendo segment.

Regarding the whole IGN/Penny Arcade controversy: I read PA and I also listen to some of IGN's podcasts (though not the PS3 or 360 ones). Given a choice, I'll trust PA over IGN any day of the week. The IGN guys are mildly amusing and occasionally hit upon a unique insight, but more often than not they seem to simply enjoy acting like and talking out of their asses. Frankly, Jeff's rant is just one in a series I've heard from them on their podcasts, though they usually reserve that kind of abuse/ridicule for their own readers. :roll:

Gabe and Tycho obviously had ties to AC, but they didn't hide them. To the contrary, they went out of their way to point them out. And if one or both of them generally liked the game, then they are entitled to address what they see as incorrect or unfair criticisms without being accused of doing so for financial gain. That said, I do think there is some ego involved, as this was a game they endorsed and advertised, and given their insistence only doing that for games they think are worth playing, they felt obligated to justify the game's worthiness.
 
[quote name='Strell']You must not know....anything about Penny Arcade.

At all.[/quote]

[quote name='Strell']You know, it is extraordinarily easy for someone to use your little tactic. It takes no forethought, no planning, no anything. All you have to do is dismiss something you don't know anything about, and if anyone says otherwise, you can just as easily call that person a sheep. It's an old and tired tactic, but it gets used on the Internets quite a bit as if it were taken from Sun Tzu himself.

I hope you know that you're accomplishing nothing. Opening up yourself by making comments that are baseless in nature, and then not offering to listen to anyone who says otherwise makes you look like an ass.

And I'd rather be a "sheep" than an ass any day.

So continue to dismiss everything I could possibly have to say, perched atop your little superiority high horse all you want, ok junior?

I mean it would be one thing if you could back up any of your accusations. But you can't, which tells me that no one should listen to you, attempt to argue with you, or say anything further.[/quote]

I'm choking on the irony. There really isn't enough bold on the internets to properly emphasize these posts.
 
I really like SMB2, the different characters and the secret doors. It was the first game that really sucked me. It's my fav, so sue me
 
[quote name='Wombat']I really like SMB2, the different characters and the secret doors. It was the first game that really sucked me. It's my fav, so sue me[/quote]

Huh...I stand corrected. Nothing wrong with liking whatcha like. Let your freak flag fly. ;)
 
I agree with Wombat on SMB2.

Also, am I the only one who thinks this Adrianne Curry character was stoned or incapacitated in some respect? At least I hope she was...
 
[quote name='Joon2324']great cagcast guys. is it my imagination or are both of you mispronouncing "mario." this comes as a shock after wombat called out cheapy on the last cagcast. every time you guys say mario it irks me because the game starts up with mario saying, "Super Mario Galaxy."

I'm too lazy to decipher you're pronunciations. Am i insane?[/quote]

Very.
 
[quote name='Wombat']I really like SMB2, the different characters and the secret doors. It was the first game that really sucked me. It's my fav, so sue me[/quote]

though not my favourite game, SMB2 was awesome. I wont sue you, but I can see CAG's posting pictures of pheonix wright saying OBJECTION before the day is over
 
[quote name='Wombat']I really like SMB2, the different characters and the secret doors. It was the first game that really sucked me. It's my fav, so sue me[/quote]

You'll be hearing from my lawyer and Good Taste Inc.

j/k, I liked that game too, but I still like a couple others better.
 
[quote name='Wombat']I really like SMB2, the different characters and the secret doors. It was the first game that really sucked me.[/quote]
I've been looking forever for a game that would suck me.
 
[quote name='chesspiece_face']the added irony regarding the penny arcade/ign dispute is that the Jeff guy that went on the rant for IGN wasn't even the person that reviewed Assassins Creed. Hilary Goldstein reviewed Assassins Creed for IGN.
[/QUOTE]

Hilary Goldstein wrote the review but Jeff Haynes added "Another Take" to the end of it, basically seconding Hilary's opinion.

Adrianne Curry sounded drunk.



 
1st off its "Mar-e-o, not "mare-e-o", you 2 drive me nuts on that... Thanks for keepin everything else Real that is what makes you special! Anyway... have either of you played TF2 on the PC and not just on the 360? IF you havent you are missing out! I own both versions of the orange box and TF2 fucking sucks on the 360, while on PC its one of the best Team FPS i have ever played. I know you like it on 360 and that Cheapy "last i heard" doesnt understand it... Thx keep up the good work!
 
[quote name='Tybee']Cheapy, I kind of understand others' frustration about you casually passing judgement on Galaxy with one star under your belt (and shame on Wombat for basically agreeing, saying that ridiculously brief playtime was enough to glean an accurate overall impression since "the gameplay doesn't change that much later on"). Excuse me? Meanwhile, Drake's Fortune and Mass Effect get starry-eyed, 15-minute discussions. I understand your play time is limited. As you pointed out, you have a stack of games and a new baby vying for your attention right now. But if that's the case, simply table discussion of the title until you actually get some legitimate playtime with it. Don't fart out a review simply to fill out the Nintendo segment.[/quote]

The fact that SMG isn't compelling enough for Cheapy to spend more time with it is actually a huge part of the "review." He's not a professional reviewer, so therefore he doesn't HAVE to spend time with it (although you'd htink he'd want to try and get his money's worth out of it). If the game gets a heck of a lot better later is meaningless if the beginning isn't compelling enough for him to stick with it, rather than jump ship to another game. It's like a movie that has an awesome ending... it won't matter if you're already asleep by the time it gets there.

So for Cheapy to say he's only competed the one level is a review in itself... to him it's definitely not the greatest game ever; it's not even the greatest game in his to-play pile.
 
All Cheapy said was he didn't think it was the greatest game ever as it's game rankings implied, I don't have any problem with what he said. He's not bashing the game, just stating that he doesn't think it deserves as much praise as it's been getting. And he even said "Hey, I only have one star, haven't played it much, but this is my impression so far." It's not like he reviewed it, just gave his first impression.

And the whole PA and IGN thing, both sides are wrong, IGN is wrong for going off, and PA is wrong for bringing attention to it. And IGN is more relevant than PA, right or wrong, it's true. It's probably the most well-known game website. While the actual reviewers aren't known, everyone always talks about when "IGN" reviews a game, not PA. And I am sure everyone would be upset if someone told us how to do our jobs, and it was wrong for Gabe to call out reviewers as if they didn't finish the entire game, when he had absolutely no idea. Either way, watching the Game Trailers video review was all i needed to convince me not to buy the game, but Cheapy's impressions and IGN reviews are also very helpful, as gamespot isn't trust worthy anymore, and who knows with the PA guys.

Heres what Tycho had to say, and he does it in a much better way. He just states his opinion on the game rather than stating what is wrong about the other reviewers and sort of bashes Gabe for how he did it.

Gabriel has apparently made an enemy, perhaps I should say another one, as he does every few months the site is in operation. The man in question can barely put one word after the other by the time he is done with his bizarre soliloquy, rage at my cohort had swallowed his intellect whole. Now he understands one tenth of what it's like to interact with Michael fucking Krahulik every day.
In essence, the post that started all the trouble asserts three things:
1. Game Reviewers Are Wrong
2. They Will Always Be Wrong

and the next one, the one that still brings out the sweat on their forehead,

3. Their Method For Reviewing Games Is Corrupt In An Imperceptible Way.

My partner in this enterprise is a base and vile aggressor, and I must often make peace, defend my honor, or assert my status as a unique being. This is actually a rare case where he and I actually agree on the game in question, unlike, say, Call of Duty 4 (whose merits I was never able to convince him of) or Mass Effect (which I essentially had to force him to play).
Some of the complaints I've read simply aren't factual - for example, the "one button" or "button mashing" combat is actually six button combat, built around two stances and few precise timing elements that should appeal to fans of fighting and rhythm games, of which we are both. As you progress, you're given these buttons and their functions one at a time. If you don't like the timing on a particular weapon, you're welcome to try the other two. Much of it is just taste, and I don't have such a high opinion of myself that I'm making declaratory statements about ludic law. If I had to state the difference between our approach and others, it's that we seem to understand that we are simply expressing an opinion. The age of the psychic reviewer shaman is over. You should never allow a meaningless, arbitrary integer promulgated by an arbitrary voice who came to power arbitrarily make decisions for you. That's essentially what Gabriel was trying to say, but he said it in a Gabriel way and it may be that the signal was lost.
The Investigations one must perform to reveal an assassination target are drawn from a limited pool of activities - much has been said about how repetitive this makes the game. There's really no argument there, a greater number of these might have ameliorated some of the complaints. If we didn't feel like doing a particular type of mission at that moment, we found another one we actually wanted to - there are several options per target, and at least half of them are optional. But for us, after we've taken a dynamic route to a place, being careful to look for clean lines we can traverse dramatically, dealt with rooftop guards, and then activated the investigation of our choice (hearing a completely custom conversation that reveals more about the game's personalities), we have experienced something unique. Sitting on a bench to overhear a conversation is not especially exciting, and we rarely chose to do it. But picking pockets or interrogating revealed a number of unique scenarios: the target must be robbed in in-between arches, while you are blocked from the view of the guards. The target immediately passes two guards on the way into a walled section of the city. The target's route passes by alert guards on his left roughly every four seconds down a long road, until there is a moment to snatch the document. This is all after interacting with one of the three bureau chiefs to get these missions, all of which have extremely distinct personalities and who relate to you differently as the game progresses.
Each assassination is also completely unique, and the later missions are as cinematic and tense as anything I have ever played in a videogame, but if you are not engaged by the story or are playing it for some other purpose than to play it may be that these things don't penetrate. If you don't understand how combat works at this point - after having it given to you button by button over the course of twelve hours - you will hate it. The ending of the game is, for lack of a better term, French. We liked the ability to discern elements about future games in the series, but then, we enjoyed this one. If you hated this game already, evidence of future torment was probably unwelcome.

(CW)TB out.
Click to expand...
And Podcast Beyond is awesome, it's always hilarious and the songs are always worth the listen. Especially Ryan Clements, he's awesome. His song with the Portal song was epic. BEYOWNED!
 
[quote name='Kosh']I know they have a lot of sheep.[/QUOTE]

Sheep nothing. You should keep your weak opinions to yourself.

[quote name='Tsiawd']1st off its "Mar-e-o, not "mare-e-o", you 2 drive me nuts on that...[/QUOTE]

I have to agree. I don't care where you're from, everybody knows how to pronounce Mario. C'mon Cheappy...
 
Good show, cheapy get that brown stuff off your nose. A grown man should never have their nose that far up some other guys butt.
 
Well I think Halo 3 isn't as good as the reviews say it is, I only played about the first level and I can already tell it's not compelling enough to stick with it. You know, if it was called "Gayo" instead of "Halo" it wouldn't get nearly as much praise.
 
[quote name='yukine']Well I think Halo 3 isn't as good as the reviews say it is, I only played about the first level and I can already tell it's not compelling enough to stick with it. You know, if it was called "Gayo" instead of "Halo" it wouldn't get nearly as much praise.[/QUOTE]

And you obviously haven't played it enough to make a decent judgment. Not to mention that the whole game has four-player co-op and there's also a huge VS. multiplayer component.
 
[quote name='eastx']And you obviously haven't played it enough to make a decent judgment. Not to mention that the whole game has four-player co-op and there's also a huge VS. multiplayer component.[/quote]
Exactly. Read the above posts to see where I'm going with this (specifically meager/H.Cornerstone's posts.)
 
well let's go to the source himself, mario. does he say "it's a me, mar-e-o," or does he say "it's a me, MARE-e-o?" i always thought it was the first one, but i could be wrong.
 
Does it really matter?

It's never bothered me, but I also don't go batshit insane when someone pronounces "toe-may-toe" as "toe-mah-toe" either.
 
[quote name='Wombat']

Listen closely for the pronunciation[/QUOTE]

1.) its an Atari commerical
2.) The Luigi in the commerical says it right
3.) Pretty much every game where mario speaks ever says "Mar-ee-oo"

Doesn't bother me per se, but you're wrong.
 
I'd just like to say that this is the first time I've listened in (after hearing that my saga was brought up) and I had a few good laughs.

Thanks for bringing up this ever-growing issue of game addiction, Cheapy.

EDIT: The whole narration of the post reminded me of Casey Kasem. I was waiting for a song dedication. :D
 
Those online games are really addicting. A friend of mine was hooked on Runescape a couple years ago. The guy couldn't stop playing for anything. He would sell his character's weapons or whatever was on there and steal other people's passwords to get their stuff (people he knew, not random online players). He would guard his password like a dog and constantly switch it so no one could hack his account. He wasn't a geeky guy or anything, or the typical sterotype of a person you would think would be sucked into these games. In fact he didn't play video games at all, so I don't know how he got hooked on it. When he played it was like he was in a trance. He finally got off of it though, which was good.
 
Your first mistake was caring about how New Yorkers say anything. They have a unique accent to say the least, thankfully not as annoying as the southern hick accent though.
 
Just my two cents, but how do you guys pronounce these other "mar" words?

Market
Mars
Marble
Martyr
Marginal
Mar
March
Del Mar
Marsh
Marshmellow
The only exception to this would be Mary, but that is just Merry misspelled so it doesn't count. ;) Plus, Mario derives from the Latin word "Marius" which is pronounced with the Mars saying. So if you want to go with the saying names like the country it oringates from then that would be correct, and seeing how we get 56% of our language from latin, thats the way it is said.
Are you guys wrong? No, it's where you grow up and New Yorkans can never say anything correctly. ;). But technically speaking, you are pronouncing it wrong.
 
I'm sure this has already been talked about, but I've only been listening to the CAGcast for a few months now. What training in radio/interviewing does Cheapy have? He somehow dragged an acceptable interview out of Curry during her drunken ramblings.
 
Great podcast, make sure you give us an update on the Cheapassgamer.com 2.0 renovations when possible!
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']All Cheapy said was he didn't think it was the greatest game ever as it's game rankings implied, I don't have any problem with what he said. He's not bashing the game, just stating that he doesn't think it deserves as much praise as it's been getting. And he even said "Hey, I only have one star, haven't played it much, but this is my impression so far." It's not like he reviewed it, just gave his first impression.

And the whole PA and IGN thing, both sides are wrong, IGN is wrong for going off, and PA is wrong for bringing attention to it. And IGN is more relevant than PA, right or wrong, it's true. It's probably the most well-known game website. While the actual reviewers aren't known, everyone always talks about when "IGN" reviews a game, not PA. And I am sure everyone would be upset if someone told us how to do our jobs, and it was wrong for Gabe to call out reviewers as if they didn't finish the entire game, when he had absolutely no idea. Either way, watching the Game Trailers video review was all i needed to convince me not to buy the game, but Cheapy's impressions and IGN reviews are also very helpful, as gamespot isn't trust worthy anymore, and who knows with the PA guys.

Heres what Tycho had to say, and he does it in a much better way. He just states his opinion on the game rather than stating what is wrong about the other reviewers and sort of bashes Gabe for how he did it.[/quote]

You make some good points. I was a little harsh on Cheapy. But I still strongly disagree with whoever said his lack of motivation to play Galaxy was, in effect, a review. Sorry, no.

And your assessment of the PA/IGN kerfuffle is probably the most sensible I've seen to this point.
 
cheaps that lady u had on in the end shes sounds like shes never played a game. and retarded if u ask me plz no more of that bitch please!
 
[quote name='tigerthecat']cheaps that lady u had on in the end shes sounds like shes never played a game. and retarded if u ask me plz no more of that bitch please![/quote]

not all people play games jackass. who cares if she never played a game! whats wrong with you? your two threads so far are jokes
 
Hey Cheapy While listening to some older podcasts I had a couple questions pop up. I was listening to number 42 where you had Jimmy Mac on the show and he asked if you were ever going to fix vbookie. You said you were after working out some server issues. What ever happened to that? It has been down forever. Also I wanted to point out that Wombat said the 360 vision camera would never be worth $40 and was useless. Here we are over a year later and he was right on the money with that one. Also you guys mentioned you thought there would be a third lego Star Wars with coop and they would milk the franchise for every penny. (again right on the mark). It appears you guys actually do know what you are talking about from time to time.
One last question, did you go back and add Navy commercials to older CAG casts? I noticed episode 43 has a Navy ad at the beginning and I don't remember you doing Navy ads until recently (the podcasts in the 90's maybe). I listened to these older ones when they first came out and I don't remember there being any ads. Are you still taking requests for favorite clips from past cag casts for episode 100? If so do we actually need to send you the clip or can we just tell you what episode and what time in the episode it starts? Thanks and keep up the great work!
 
I am behind IGN on this whole AC argument. Whoever said that PA is more relevant than IGN in the games world is straight up retarded. IGN is the most populated gaming website on the Internet. Their game reviews carry as much weight as any publication or website on the planet. These guys are paid to review games for a living, I will trust their viewpoint over a couple of douche bags who write comics for a living. People who think that IGN has a biased towards games but PA is completely non-biased for certain titles are kidding themselves. Everybody have motivations people.

And furthermore who gives a shit what an IGN editor says on an IGN podcast. They can say whatever the hell they want to say, its THEIR podcast. The rant was completely in line if not a little misguided. Damn one person rips on PA and the whole Internet goes up in flames.
 
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