Clover Studios is no more.

What the SHIT.

OK, so they produce a string of commercial and critical successes, and they get shut down? I don't understand the logic.

I hate this. I just fucking hate this. Clover was one of the most promising new studios in the past 5 years.

What's next? Treasure goes under? Shudder to think...
 
Well, it will be official @the end of March next year.

I think it's too early to say what kind of impact this has creatively on Capcom in general. A number of Clover's most recent games (including Okami) didn't do as well as the company hoped, so it's not entirely surprising.
 
The interview in the latest OPM made it sound like they still had a ways to go before something like this would happen. Didn't know that the Viewtiful Joe series and Okami amounted to losses of 400 million yen... and here I thought they were doing pretty good.
 
[quote name='gunm']Well, it will be official @the end of March next year.

I think it's too early to say what kind of impact this has creatively on Capcom in general. A number of Clover's most recent games (including Okami) didn't do as well as the company hoped, so it's not entirely surprising.[/QUOTE]


Okami did crappy in Japan, that's true. But the game is selling like gold-encrusted money cakes here. I've gone to a few gamestores locally and caught the employees bitching about how they can't keep it in stock.
 
They're probably being dissolved because they only released what? 2 or 3 sequels to Viewtiful Joe. And then they create an ORIGINAL game called Okami?!? That's got to be in violation of Capcom's corporate policy.

It's disrespectful to Capcom, really, that they haven't released Viewtiful Joe 8 and two remakes of the first Viewtiful Joe by now.
 
[quote name='"Chris Kohler"']UPDATE: A source who wishes to remain anonymous is telling me that the Clover gang actually wants to split from Capcom and form their own independent development studio. So the dissolution, then, would have been caused by the developers deciding to take off.

UPDATE 2: There's an English version of the press release up now.

Clover Studio, creators of Capcom titles like Viewtiful Joe and God Hand, has been dissolved, according to a press release that hit the publisher's web site this morning. The subsidiary was wholly owned by Capcom.

The liquidation will be formally concluded at the end of March, 2007, the close of the Japanese fiscal year. Again -- if I'm reading the release right, they'll announce a "special loss" on the balance sheets at that time of approximately 400 million yen (approx. $3,351,610.)[/quote]
http://blog.wired.com/games/2006/10/capcoms_clover_.html
 
The studio is doing well critically but the sales figures are not up to snuff. I don't think Okami sold very well in the USA thus far and Capcom shelled out a lot of marketting dollard advertising it in magazines and on websites. Godhand also looks like it's getting mixed reviews and probably runs the high risk of not selling well too.

I find it funny how Nintendo Fanboys are posting on Kotaku that Clover betrayed them and are glad they are gone.
 
[quote name='MadFlava']The studio is doing well critically but the sales figures are not up to snuff. I don't think Okami sold very well in the USA thus far and Capcom shelled out a lot of marketting dollard advertising it in magazines and on websites. Godhand also looks like it's getting mixed reviews and probably runs the high risk of not selling well too.

I find it funny how Nintendo Fanboys are posting on Kotaku that Clover betrayed them and are glad they are gone.[/quote]

nintendo fanboys are dumb beyond understanding nothing they do surprises me unless they openly admit to the gimmicky nature of nintendos products then id be surprised.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']Good job, morans. Keep making sure Mega Man Battle Network 16 releases instead.[/quote]

394104-morans.jpg


(it's morons, not morans.)
 
There's really no one to blame on this.

Capcom wasn't making money off of the games Clover was producing. None of the 4 Viewtiful Joe games exactly tore up the charts and all of them received quick price drops or were clearanced at stores. Okami didn't sell well in Japan and when all is said and done, I don't think it will sell well here in the U.S. either. Godhand is not going to sell many copies and Capcom even put it out as a budget title at $30.

Clover wants to make creative, interesting games. They should be allowed to do that, but Capcom isn't going to keep pumping money into them when the same money could be used on a sequel to a proven franchise that people will buy.

And finally, the consumers: the general gaming public is not going to buy these games. They buy sequels of well known franchises and for the most part, that's just about it. There is no changing this and I'm in no position to tell Joe Gamer what he is finding fun and spending his money on is wrong.
 
[quote name='spidey']The interview in the latest OPM made it sound like they still had a ways to go before something like this would happen. Didn't know that the Viewtiful Joe series and Okami amounted to losses of 400 million yen... and here I thought they were doing pretty good.[/quote]

I just read that story so this announcement really surprised me. Even if Capcom was losing money on Clover's products, at least Clover was doing something different.
 
I can understand why Nintendo fanboys are pissed about Viewtiful Joe getting ported. I think they're total morons for thinking that, but I can understand where they're coming from. In fairness, people should be pissed at Clover for Red Hot Rumble.

I liked Clover. I think Viewtiful Joe sold well in Japan, shitty every where else. Okami was the reverse situation. Ah well. Hopefully they'll bring some of their goodness to RE 5/Wii and maybe one of the new Mega Man franchises (or Mega Man 9/Legends 3, pleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease Capcom).

[quote name='lebowsky']I just read that story so this announcement really surprised me. Even if Capcom was losing money on Clover's products, at least Clover was doing something different.[/QUOTE]

It's sad that we've reached a day and age where hard 2D platformers are the exception rather then the rule.
 
fuck. that's awful news. I'm not surprised though. Capcom pushed them pretty hard and the team ended up putting out quantity over quality. VJ1 and Okami are great, but everything else wreaked of "capcom made me do this."


btw, in Capcom's financial report they put out earlier this year, they said Okami was selling well in japan. I don't think it failed like you all are saying. But it did take way too long to develop, which probably ended up in an inevitable loss.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']There's really no one to blame on this.

Capcom wasn't making money off of the games Clover was producing. None of the 4 Viewtiful Joe games exactly tore up the charts and all of them received quick price drops or were clearanced at stores. Okami didn't sell well in Japan and when all is said and done, I don't think it will sell well here in the U.S. either. Godhand is not going to sell many copies and Capcom even put it out as a budget title at $30.

Clover wants to make creative, interesting games. They should be allowed to do that, but Capcom isn't going to keep pumping money into them when the same money could be used on a sequel to a proven franchise that people will buy.

And finally, the consumers: the general gaming public is not going to buy these games. They buy sequels of well known franchises and for the most part, that's just about it. There is no changing this and I'm in no position to tell Joe Gamer what he is finding fun and spending his money on is wrong.[/QUOTE]

I agree on this, as Capcom is a franchise development company. The only way they'll support an original title in their business model is if it has franchise potential. Many companies have moved in this direction to minimize risk.

However, I think they've fucked Clover on this one too. They've done a poor job of marketing the game, and could have (and still could) promote it alot more than they have. I don't know how well they've promoted it overseas, but I haven't seen a commercial on it or anything here. Hell, even if you make a commercial on adult swim and air it a few times, I think they'd move more units.

I wonder if some of this has to do with market anticipation of next gen systems. This game is incredible, it's a shame that the mainstream market isn't giving it a chance. I believe that with a little more promotion and a slight price drop, they'd sell more copies.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']There's really no one to blame on this.

Capcom wasn't making money off of the games Clover was producing. None of the 4 Viewtiful Joe games exactly tore up the charts and all of them received quick price drops or were clearanced at stores. Okami didn't sell well in Japan and when all is said and done, I don't think it will sell well here in the U.S. either. Godhand is not going to sell many copies and Capcom even put it out as a budget title at $30.

Clover wants to make creative, interesting games. They should be allowed to do that, but Capcom isn't going to keep pumping money into them when the same money could be used on a sequel to a proven franchise that people will buy.

And finally, the consumers: the general gaming public is not going to buy these games. They buy sequels of well known franchises and for the most part, that's just about it. There is no changing this and I'm in no position to tell Joe Gamer what he is finding fun and spending his money on is wrong.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Capcom isn't at fault, they stuck with Clover for a long time when none of their games did well at all.

4 games later and not one of them has been a success financially, of course they are going to drop them. They more than got a fair chance at things.

For people saying "bitch bitch bitch Capcom sucks blah blah no original IP's", Dead Rising was a HUGE success and Lost Planet is another original IP. Capcom is one of the few developers who DO take a chance and DO put out original IP's, and sometimes this happens and none of them do well at all.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Exactly. Capcom isn't at fault, they stuck with Clover for a long time when none of their games did well at all.

4 games later and not one of them has been a success financially, of course they are going to drop them. They more than got a fair chance at things.

For people saying "bitch bitch bitch Capcom sucks blah blah no original IP's", Dead Rising was a HUGE success and Lost Planet is another original IP. Capcom is one of the few developers who DO take a chance and DO put out original IP's, and sometimes this happens and none of them do well at all.[/QUOTE]


Capcom is totally at fault. They're the ones who tell Clover what to develop-- and they wanted 10 sequels to Viewtiful Joe, a mascot who never caught on in the first place.
 
That suuuucks, I had just started to like Clover and now they're "dissolved" sounds so morbid. Freaking Capcom always releases a new game as a series to the one before that if it sold well, then they go on and make like 20000 a year until people finally get sick of them! I think the Clover people should just go to some other company and ask to be financed....they can still make the same games then.
 
Heh, here I thought that Capcom was happy with Clover but I guess not. Okami is a great game but I think most people are passing on it now because they're getting ready to purchase a next gen system and that is where their interest is at.
 
I just read this. That really sucks. I realize the games didn't sell all that well but their games were definitely original. I'm looking foward to getting Okami and God Hand. We need more studios like them not less. Ugh :(
 
[quote name='jkam']I just read this. That really sucks. I realize the games didn't sell all that well but their games were definitely original. I'm looking foward to getting Okami and God Hand. We need more studios like them not less. Ugh :([/quote]

Well just because Capcom is "dissolving" Clover doesn't mean that the Clover guys can't pack up and do their own thing. I'm sure that they can find a publisher other than Capcom. Nintendo, are you listening?
 
[quote name='Spades22']That suuuucks, I had just started to like Clover and now they're "dissolved" sounds so morbid. Freaking Capcom always releases a new game as a series to the one before that if it sold well, then they go on and make like 20000 a year until people finally get sick of them! I think the Clover people should just go to some other company and ask to be financed....they can still make the same games then.[/QUOTE]

Well at least they'll still be at Capcom. If they were a private company, they'd be in the red so much that they'd file for Chapter 11 Japan style and be scattered to the wind. Keeping them all at Capcom means that there'll be more Clover in a Capcom game now rather then if the latter situation happened.
 
Sucks, but Shipwreck said what must be said. I still have Okami in the shrinkwrap. Should I take it back for a pricedrop?
 
[quote name='Apossum']Capcom is totally at fault. They're the ones who tell Clover what to develop-- and they wanted 10 sequels to Viewtiful Joe, a mascot who never caught on in the first place.[/QUOTE]

Viewtiful Joe was always planned from the beginning as a trilogy, that was Clover's idea. It's written that way since the very first game.

I think the only time Capcom whored out Viewtiful Joe is for that shitty SSBM style game.

It was a good series, but I think VJ 2 didn't improve on the first one at all (was alot worse, imo), and that's Clover's fault. I never saw the appeal to the studio... Viewtiful Joe was ok, VJ 2 sucks, Okami is great, and apparently Godhand also sucks.

That's a horrible track record.

I wonder how many people here who went "Oh man, this blows" were the ones waiting for Okami to price drop instead of supporting it when it came out, because that contributed as much to this if anything. (For the record, I got it on release, same with all Clover games except for Godhand).
 
[quote name='Scorch']
394104-morans.jpg


(it's morons, not morans.)[/QUOTE]

I said "morans" intentionally in reference to that pic. Thanks for posting that, though. I haven't seen it in a while.
 
It's true. I'm buying them.

They are going to live in my backyard.

We're going to have the greatest tea parties.

They'll be all saying FEED US, PLEASE! in their moon language, and I'll just keep laaaaaaughing....
 
[quote name='Roufuss']Viewtiful Joe was always planned from the beginning as a trilogy, that was Clover's idea. It's written that way since the very first game.

I think the only time Capcom whored out Viewtiful Joe is for that shitty SSBM style game.

It was a good series, but I think VJ 2 didn't improve on the first one at all (was alot worse, imo), and that's Clover's fault. I never saw the appeal to the studio... Viewtiful Joe was ok, VJ 2 sucks, Okami is great, and apparently Godhand also sucks.

That's a horrible track record.

I wonder how many people here who went "Oh man, this blows" were the ones waiting for Okami to price drop instead of supporting it when it came out, because that contributed as much to this if anything. (For the record, I got it on release, same with all Clover games except for Godhand).[/QUOTE]

Their track record was horrible...I guess I shouldn't say who did what, because I have no idea about how their business arrangement works. Capcom could've been pressuring them to put out 5 games a year or they could've been too ambitious.

I'd love to see them start their own company and concentrate on single games at a time-- like 1 or 2 a year.

In any case, they gave us Okami and for that they'll go down in videogame history. that game is timeless and you could never look back and say the graphics are outdated. Unless of course, Okami 2 somehow makes it out :)


now, they dissolve in March 2007...sounds like they'll be putting out another game in that time.
 
[quote name='Scrubsy']That sucks. They were one of the few studios that actually make original games.[/QUOTE]

Make that; original games that DIDN'T suck.

I hope this doesn't mean no VJ3 or Okami 2 :(

BTW VJ2 wasn't horrible. Sure, it wasn't VJ1, but it was still pretty good. Can't speak for Godhand though.
 
[quote name='Apossum']Their track record was horrible...I guess I shouldn't say who did what, because I have no idea about how their business arrangement works. Capcom could've been pressuring them to put out 5 games a year or they could've been too ambitious.

I'd love to see them start their own company and concentrate on single games at a time-- like 1 or 2 a year.

In any case, they gave us Okami and for that they'll go down in videogame history. that game is timeless and you could never look back and say the graphics are outdated. Unless of course, Okami 2 somehow makes it out :)


now, they dissolve in March 2007...sounds like they'll be putting out another game in that time.[/QUOTE]

If Clover was their own company they would have filed bankruptcy by now, and I don't think that would change if they started a new company in March 2007.

They are better off getting dissolved into Capcom because at least they will have jobs.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']If Clover was their own company they would have filed bankruptcy by now, and I don't think that would change if they started a new company in March 2007.

They are better off getting dissolved into Capcom because at least they will have jobs.[/QUOTE]


not if they made more games like Okami :) and hey, Godhand was a good idea with poor execution, probably because it was rushed.
 
[quote name='Apossum']not if they made more games like Okami :) and hey, Godhand was a good idea with poor execution, probably because it was rushed.[/QUOTE]

According to other people in this thread, Okami bombed in Japan and probably isn't doing much better here (we would have to wait for the NPD numbers or whatever to find out).

So yea, they can make awesome games like Okami all they want, but if they don't sell, they are screwed, espically if they were their own company.

Interesting to think Dead Rising is selling more than Okami, that's something crazy right there.
 
McDonalidization, people, just McDonaldization taking course.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonaldization

The longer Capcom lets Clover do their own things, the more dangerous they become as potential competitors. This could be in the form of leaving Capcom (Clover subsidiary) to form their own company like Sakaguchi did with Mistwalker or leaving for another company. Economics is a science and science, unlike religion and ethics, is not concerned about right or wrong but is only concerned with efficiency.

Fortune 500 will soon becaome Fortune 50 or worse, Fortune 5! Where's the democracy and free market in that?!
 
[quote name='Roufuss']According to other people in this thread, Okami bombed in Japan and probably isn't doing much better here (we would have to wait for the NPD numbers or whatever to find out).

So yea, they can make awesome games like Okami all they want, but if they don't sell, they are screwed, espically if they were their own company.

Interesting to think Dead Rising is selling more than Okami, that's something crazy right there.[/QUOTE]



I know what people are saying, but they're wrong (no one pays attention to my posts :p ) The first week sales looked weak, but it must've picked up-- since Capcom highlighted it as a strong performer in their financial report this year. it doesn't have to sell 100,000 at once, it can sell steady at 10,000 a week and hit 100,000 in 2 months as word of mouth spreads. I could see that happening with this game (there and here.)

and Okami, iirc, moved about 30,000 copies in its first week, DR has only sold 20,000--which covers about all the people who own 360s in Japan :lol:
 
[quote name='62t']I wonder if Shinji Mikami is still working for Capcom.[/quote]

He's been long gone right after RE4 was finished for the GameCube. The reason? Actually, Mikami and a few others left because of some internal executive issue about releasing RE4 on the PS2. Simply put, Mikami and the others felt that RE4 shouldn't have been released on the PS2.

A true artist never sells a painting and then proceed to paint the same piece....
 
[quote name='Logain8955']Okami did crappy in Japan, that's true. But the game is selling like gold-encrusted money cakes here. I've gone to a few gamestores locally and caught the employees bitching about how they can't keep it in stock.[/quote]

Keep in mind the "gamestores" make up a small percentage of the market. Not to mention, we don't know how many games are being allocated per store. Check the NPDs and Wal-Mart's numbers, then get back to me.
 
[quote name='gunm']Keep in mind the "gamestores" make up a small percentage of the market. Not to mention, we don't know how many games are being allocated per store. Check the NPDs and Wal-Mart's numbers, then get back to me.[/quote]

The game won't sell well in the U.S.

I can't be the only one that can look at games prior to release and tell that they aren't going to sell... can I?

Things going against Okami selling well in the U.S.

1. The name Okami. This means nothing to Americans. It does not make one want to pick up the box, nor does it give one any idea what the game is about. (See also Otogi, Otogi 2, Odama)

2. The game looks cartoony. Cel shaded games do not sell in the States. Wind Waker gets a pass because people want to play Zelda, but even so, look at all the flack that game got due to it's art style. (See also Jet Set Radio Future, Viewtiful Joe, XIII)

3. It's a game where you fight as a wolf using caligraphy?!? This does not appeal to American audiences. I can't even come up with a see also here.

4. Bad timing. Everybody is getting ready for the big franchise releases just around the corner. To be honest, Okami actually probably couldn't have released at a much better time (maybe a little earlier in the summer would help), but if it was released any later it would have just gotten swallowed up by the big sellers for the holidays.


And this isn't the type of game that sells huge numbers at Wal-Mart. This is a video game for people that are really into video games (like people who visit this site), but it doesn't have crossover appeal outside of the people that care if a game is "critically acclaimed".


[Disclaimer - I own Okami and I am going to start playing it tomorrow. I got it for $15 out of pocket though, because I didn't want to wait until February when this drops to $20.]
 
Ya..what sells is crappy games where you shoot things and sport games that the casual gamer finds cool such as GTA and Madden...they aren't interested in these "wussy" games like Okami and stuff...gotta be mean and hardcore. (I play the "wussy" stuff, so don't think I like GTA)
 
[quote name='furyk']Hopefully they'll bring some of their goodness to RE 5/Wii and maybe one of the new Mega Man franchises (or Mega Man 9/Legends 3, pleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease Capcom).[/QUOTE]

Mega Man 9 already exists...it's called Rockman & Forte / Megaman & Bass. Maybe you meant 10?

Also, to people saying that Viewtiful Joe sold poorly: It became a Player's Choice on Gamecube, and spawned a TV show. It couldn't have done THAT badly.


And Shipwreck, just a couple more caveats: You forgot to mention Dragon Quest VIII, which is cel-shaded, but sold fantastically.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top