Cop tazes ten year-old girl.

[quote name='n8rockerasu']Ehh...I get what you're saying, but it's kind of a cop out. Shitty parents don't exist because there are laws preventing them from being good parents. It just takes effort.[/QUOTE]

I definitely agree with you. I'm just saying, it would be a lot easier to be a better parent if you were allowed to physically discipline your kid without fear of being arrested. Maybe it's just me, but I think that a lack of physical discipline just makes kids less likely to listen. ("Oh no! Not 5 minutes in the corner, mom. PLEEEEASE!" /sarcasm)
 
[quote name='Rocko']I would ask you to do the same, as you're acting like the use of a taser is the end of humanity when in reality it's a much better solution than the alternatives in a given situation.[/QUOTE]

I'm acting like it's the end of humanity because it's certainly the end of something. When tazers become the go-to tool for cops, there's something very wrong.
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']The one problem I see with your argument is that you seem to think kids are reasonable beings who are completely accountable for their actions. I agree 100% that a child SHOULD be well-behaved, but the fact that it was necessary for the mother to call the police for help really speaks more to the mother's problems than it does the child's. Many parenting methods that others have pointed out are great, and should work on child that has been raised with an ounce of respect.

[/QUOTE]

On the contrary, I know they are unreasonable and I never said they are completely accountable for their actions, although at ten you are expected to know right from wrong.

If a child has extreme behavioral disorders then all the good parenting in the world won't make a difference. There are plenty of parents with one really great kid and one kid that turns out to be an asshole. Ultimately the kid chooses to go along with what the parent says (for whatever reason) and ultimately some children can't be controlled and it is absurd to think bad parenting is always the reason for a bad kid. It is the contributing factor most of the time, but not all the time. Kids can be bi-polar, manic depressive, hyper-emotional and as illogically beligerent as any adult.
 
[quote name='Rocko']But you ignore the alternatives when you condemn tasers.[/QUOTE]

No, I don't. Remember when I said no, no, no, and no? You should. Because that's where I ranked those alternatives higher on the scale of acceptability than tazering.

Gotcha by the balls now! If I were a lesser man I would squeeze them like grapes till they popped, but since I'm a nice guy, I'm going to just smack them a bit.

Now, tazering as a replacement for guns is an idea I could get behind because it is less lethal than bullets, but it shouldn't be a replacement for anything else. I know there are problems with that idea such as limited ammunition and range and such, but it's worth consideration.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']On the contrary, I know they are unreasonable and I never said they are completely accountable for their actions, although at ten you are expected to know right from wrong.

If a child has extreme behavioral disorders then all the good parenting in the world won't make a difference. There are plenty of parents with one really great kid and one kid that turns out to be an asshole. Ultimately the kid chooses to go along with what the parent says (for whatever reason) and ultimately some children can't be controlled and it is absurd to think bad parenting is always the reason for a bad kid. It is the contributing factor most of the time, but not all the time. Kids can be bi-polar, manic depressive, hyper-emotional and as illogically beligerent as any adult.[/QUOTE]

Then let's get this kid signed up for therapy and really deal with her problems. I agree that at the age of ten, you SHOULD know right from wrong. But if you don't, whose fault is it? I'd most definitely say the parents. I've actually known people who have called the cops on their own kids before, and while those kids may have been difficult to handle, it doesn't excuse the parent from knowing how to deal with them.

I won't deny there are cases where children have diagnosed medical problems that prevent them from "acting right", and parents who go above and beyond the call of duty to "fix" that child. But in the vast majority of these cases, you'll find a parent on drugs, a parent who pays more attention to their career, a parent with wacky religious beliefs, or a parent who's just lazy. Hell, even with a diagnosed medical disorder, there's a strong chance the disorder was brought on BECAUSE of one of those factors.

These kinds of stories pop up all the time with kids going off the deep end and abusing/torturing/murdering their peers, and everybody is so quick to blame music, TV, video games, etc. But 99% of the time, it comes back to bad parenting. You argue that a child can easily be as illogically beligerant as any adult, but I have to ask, how do they become that way? Are we arguing nature vs nurture here?
 
It's probably been mentioned before, but over the risk of breaking the kid's arm or something, tazing was probably the "safer" alternative. Speaking as someone who's arm was broken as a child, children's bones break/dislocate easily, and a full-grown cop could do it quite unintentionally while handling an unruly child.

Regarding tazers killing people, I don't think I've heard of a situation where that's happened, with the possible exception of a complication involving a pacemaker. Heck, there were reporters who let themselves get tazed on television for their programs.

That being said, the cop should have just walked away, or even better yet, not been dispatched in the first place. One would hope they have better things to do than be a replacement parent for useless adults, (Sankaku complex scares me.) or deal with people who don't like their hotdog toppings.
 
[quote name='seanr1221']Hey ChuPlaysWithDolls, how do you feel about tranquilizers?[/QUOTE]

I don't know enough about them to have an educated opinion.
 
[quote name='Rasen']It's probably been mentioned before, but over the risk of breaking the kid's arm or something, tazing was probably the "safer" alternative. Speaking as someone who's arm was broken as a child, children's bones break/dislocate easily, and a full-grown cop could do it quite unintentionally while handling an unruly child.

Regarding tazers killing people, I don't think I've heard of a situation where that's happened, with the possible exception of a complication involving a pacemaker. Heck, there were reporters who let themselves get tazed on television for their programs.

That being said, the cop should have just walked away, or even better yet, not been dispatched in the first place. One would hope they have better things to do than be a replacement parent for useless adults, (Sankaku complex scares me.) or deal with people who don't like their hotdog toppings.[/QUOTE]

I never thought of that. And being only 65 pounds, it's not like the kid is a heavyweight, so she could have probably broken something pretty easy.

Regardless though, I doubt the kid will be doing anything like that again. I bet that tazer was a wake up call. (Well, technically she passed out, but whatever. :lol:)
 
[quote name='Chuplayer']I don't know enough about them to have an educated opinion.[/QUOTE]
Well you obviously don't know enough about tasers either.
 
[quote name='Access_Denied']I never thought of that. And being only 65 pounds, it's not like the kid is a heavyweight, so she could have probably broken something pretty easy.

Regardless though, I doubt the kid will be doing anything like that again. I bet that tazer was a wake up call. (Well, technically she passed out, but whatever. :lol:)[/QUOTE]
Tasers don't actually knock people out.
 
[quote name='GuyWithGun']Tasers don't actually knock people out.[/QUOTE]

It knocked out a guy in a Canadian airport...permanently. And a 5'6" and 140lb. kid the next town over from me...also permanently.
 
There was a good one in Portland recently where some 12 year little brat who was 5'8 and weighed 180 socked a cop in the face. They wrestled her to the ground, then one of the officers shot her with a bean bag in the leg. now Portland is up in arms claiming police brutality.

She's lucky she didn't got shot for real.

A beanbag followed by a bruise is a heck of a lot better than a .40 round to the spine followed by a wheel chair.
 
[quote name='GuyWithGun']Well you obviously don't know enough about tasers either.[/QUOTE]

Except that it's electricity going through somebody's body.

Ass.
 
[quote name='Chuplayer']Except that it's electricity going through somebody's body.

Ass.[/QUOTE]

Wait...I'm confused. What does a tazer send through people's bodies?
 
[quote name='Chuplayer']Except that it's electricity going through somebody's body.

Ass.[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone is contesting that fact.
 
[quote name='Rocko']I don't think anyone is contesting that fact.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I guess he missed the part where I said he doesn't know ENOUGH about Tasers.
 
What a lot of you fail to realize is you know nothing about law enforcement. There is a force continuum with officers present on one side and deadly force on the other. Officers HAVE to follow their department guidelines. People also fail to look at statistics officer and offender injuries have dropped dramatically since the introduction of the taser.

Most departments go something like this:

1. Officer Present
2. Verbal Commands
3. Taser
4. Pepper Spray
5. Hands on
6. Striking Weapons i.e. asp or pr-24
7. Deadly Force

Things like this take months to learn and if you are not in law enforcement you can never truly grasp the concept and the reasoning behind it.

Another thing to the people who complain the cop shouldn't have responded to the call. You HAVE to respond to EVERY call for assistance like it or not. If it is determined a parent or anyone for that matter calls 911 for a non-emergency they can be charged with a crime.

The taser has not been around for long. It is going through the same process pepper spray went through when it was introduced. People cried about it being inhumane and unfair treatment. I guess some of you don't realize take away all the other options your only left with a gun and handcuffs. The fleeing felon rule was done and over with long ago for a reason and without other options things would revert back to that.

And for the people claiming they know someone who was killed with a taser or someone the next town over was killed or another kid somewhere else was killed near by please post links. A taser has NEVER been the cause of death on any death certificate. Most people who die after being tased are high on cocaine or obese or both.
 
[quote name='silentevil']What a lot of you fail to realize is you know nothing about law enforcement. There is a force continuum with officers present on one side and deadly force on the other. Officers HAVE to follow their department guidelines. People also fail to look at statistics officer and offender injuries have dropped dramatically since the introduction of the taser.

Most departments go something like this:

1. Officer Present
2. Verbal Commands
3. Taser
4. Pepper Spray
5. Hands on
6. Striking Weapons i.e. asp or pr-24
7. Deadly Force

Things like this take months to learn and if you are not in law enforcement you can never truly grasp the concept and the reasoning behind it.

Another thing to the people who complain the cop shouldn't have responded to the call. You HAVE to respond to EVERY call for assistance like it or not. If it is determined a parent or anyone for that matter calls 911 for a non-emergency they can be charged with a crime.

The taser has not been around for long. It is going through the same process pepper spray went through when it was introduced. People cried about it being inhumane and unfair treatment. I guess some of you don't realize take away all the other options your only left with a gun and handcuffs. The fleeing felon rule was done and over with long ago for a reason and without other options things would revert back to that.

And for the people claiming they know someone who was killed with a taser or someone the next town over was killed or another kid somewhere else was killed near by please post links. A taser has NEVER been the cause of death on any death certificate. Most people who die after being tased are high on cocaine or obese or both.[/QUOTE]

Excellent post except for the conclusion.

Why isn't pepper spray used before a taser?

Is somebody high or obese more likely to die from pepper spray than a taser?

Given that every state has nearly 25% or greater obesity rates, isn't tasing a bad idea? http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.html
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']
Why isn't pepper spray used before a taser?
[/QUOTE]

I'm going to take a random stab and say 'for the sake of others nearby'. I went to a club a few weeks ago with some co-workers, and the bouncers pepper-sprayed some guy outside. I was next to the door when they let in 2 girls who were by him to get them into clean air... and those few seconds were enough myself and 3 others near the door to catch a whiff of it and start coughing. It wasn't pleasant.

Tasers are quick effect, quicker recovery, and don't take out half a dozen people who happened to be nearby.
 
[quote name='DuelLadyS']I'm going to take a random stab and say 'for the sake of others nearby'. I went to a club a few weeks ago with some co-workers, and the bouncers pepper-sprayed some guy outside. I was next to the door when they let in 2 girls who were by him to get them into clean air... and those few seconds were enough myself and 3 others near the door to catch a whiff of it and start coughing. It wasn't pleasant.

Tasers are quick effect, quicker recovery, and don't take out half a dozen people who happened to be nearby.[/QUOTE]

Excellent point.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Excellent post except for the conclusion.

Why isn't pepper spray used before a taser?

Is somebody high or obese more likely to die from pepper spray than a taser?

Given that every state has nearly 25% or greater obesity rates, isn't tasing a bad idea? http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.html[/QUOTE]

Pepper spray is used after tasers for multiple reasons. First some people are allergic to oleoresin capsicum. You will not go into anaphylactic shock from a taser. The biggest issue is officer safety. Pepper spray tends to blow back when it's used. Very rare for officers to spray someone and not get some themselves. If I pepper spray bad guy A and I blind myself too if there is a bad guy B I'm sol until I can get back up or the bad guy is not affected and I am things can get pretty bad from there. Pepper spray can not be delivered from 21 ft away a taser can. Pepper spray does not affect everyone the same way. Some people hyperventilate others it has no effect on. Tasers do the same thing to every person every time. And when I say obese I don't mean people who are 20lbs overweight I'm talking about people who weigh close to 300 lbs and are 5' 6''. And tasing someone who is overweight alone will not kill them. They have to have a preexisting medical condition or be on drugs that are already stressing out their heart. There has NEVER been an incident where a taser been the cause of death.

Also you like stats from the cdc so much look how many people have died from accidental falls around the house and compare that to people who die after being tased. You are more likely to trip over your ottoman and die than die from a taser. Maybe you should start a group to outlaw ottomans because they kill so many people every year. Tasers are not bad. People had the same complaining and bitching when officers started using pepper spray. People used to scream pepper spray was killing people when it was used. Now people would rather officers fight with people and use pepper spray risking injury to themselves than use a taser. Taser arguments are piratically nonexistent anymore. Most people are waking up and looking at the numbers. Some people get scared when police use technology they don't understand and will jump on anything to complain about the police.
 
[quote name='DuelLadyS']I'm going to take a random stab and say 'for the sake of others nearby'. I went to a club a few weeks ago with some co-workers, and the bouncers pepper-sprayed some guy outside. I was next to the door when they let in 2 girls who were by him to get them into clean air... and those few seconds were enough myself and 3 others near the door to catch a whiff of it and start coughing. It wasn't pleasant.

Tasers are quick effect, quicker recovery, and don't take out half a dozen people who happened to be nearby.[/QUOTE]

If the pepper sprayed guy had grabbed one of the lasses, how effective would a taser be?
 
[quote name='silentevil']Pepper spray is used after tasers for multiple reasons. First some people are allergic to oleoresin capsicum. You will not go into anaphylactic shock from a taser. [/QUOTE]

Very good reasoning. Is the allergy common or rare?

[quote name='silentevil']The biggest issue is officer safety. Pepper spray tends to blow back when it's used. Very rare for officers to spray someone and not get some themselves. If I pepper spray bad guy A and I blind myself too if there is a bad guy B I'm sol until I can get back up or the bad guy is not affected and I am things can get pretty bad from there. Pepper spray can not be delivered from 21 ft away a taser can. Pepper spray does not affect everyone the same way. Some people hyperventilate others it has no effect on. Tasers do the same thing to every person every time. And when I say obese I don't mean people who are 20lbs overweight I'm talking about people who weigh close to 300 lbs and are 5' 6''. [/QUOTE]

You could stop here. You've made some great points. Unless there is a need for flaming, I won't go over the rest of your response.
 
To clear up something real quick for my area: Taser, Pepper Spray, and Soft Empty Hand Control are all on the same level. So it's not like before you go hands on you HAVE to Tase them. Taser and Pepper Spray are considered part of Soft Empty hand control. Taser and Spray are officially at the same level but most prefer Taser before Spray for the reasons mentioned above. (This is at least the rule for this part of the country, not sure about everyone else)

Again, with pepper spray vs. taser, another huge factor in addition to cross contamination is decontamination. Taser is 5-seconds and you're done (unless they keep being stupid). Pepper spray is 2 second bursts of application, then up to a full hour or more of decontamination for all the effects to dissipate. (Even after that symptoms can still flair up depending on the decontamination process used)
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']If the pepper sprayed guy had grabbed one of the lasses, how effective would a taser be?[/QUOTE]
A common misconception is that if you touch a person being tasered anywhere on their body, you will also feel the effects, which is not 100% true. It all depends on where the taser probes land on the suspect and how you touch that person (or how he is grabbing the lass in this situation).

If he's hugging her, and you hit him in the back, more likely than not, she won't feel a thing.
 
[quote name='GuyWithGun']To clear up something real quick for my area: Taser, Pepper Spray, and Soft Empty Hand Control are all on the same level. So it's not like before you go hands on you HAVE to Tase them. Taser and Pepper Spray are considered part of Soft Empty hand control. Taser and Spray are officially at the same level but most prefer Taser before Spray for the reasons mentioned above. (This is at least the rule for this part of the country, not sure about everyone else)

Again, with pepper spray vs. taser, another huge factor in addition to cross contamination is decontamination. Taser is 5-seconds and you're done (unless they keep being stupid). Pepper spray is 2 second bursts of application, then up to a full hour or more of decontamination for all the effects to dissipate. (Even after that symptoms can still flair up depending on the decontamination process used)[/QUOTE]

The allergy is big enough for me. I would rather have a cop performing CPR on me after a taser hit caused excited delirium rather than the same cop trying to shove a needle of epinephrine in my heart or perform a tracheotomy after having an allergic reaction.
 
[quote name='GuyWithGun']A common misconception is that if you touch a person being tasered anywhere on their body, you will also feel the effects, which is not 100% true. It all depends on where the taser probes land on the suspect and how you touch that person (or how he is grabbing the lass in this situation).

If he's hugging her, and you hit him in the back, more likely than not, she won't feel a thing.[/QUOTE]

Does the low amperage render most of this video moot in terms of charge transference?

http://www.funny-videos.co.uk/videobrainiacelectricfrencetreatment.html
 
What ever happened to that military project that was supposed to replace tasers, pepper spray, etc.? It was like a green light that made everybody just get instantly ill and just stop whatever they were doing. They originally had them mounted on Humvees like spotlights and were going to eventually make them handheld units. The thing was initially for riot control, specifically the kind of mobs that show up at embassies with molotovs and AKs.
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']What ever happened to that military project that was supposed to replace tasers, pepper spray, etc.? It was like a green light that made everybody just get instantly ill and just stop whatever they were doing. They originally had them mounted on Humvees like spotlights and were going to eventually make them handheld units. The thing was initially for riot control, specifically the kind of mobs that show up at embassies with molotovs and AKs.[/QUOTE]

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Military_heat_ray_gun_zaps_60_0229.html

It'll most likely be overused by police in the next few years.

The heat ray probably wouldn't work as pinpoint as a taser and I'm sure you have to dial down the knob the closer you get to the ray.

I'm sure a few people will suffer the same fate as the wet cat in a microwave and coroners will make up new terms so that fellow government employees in law enforcement won't be sued into oblivion.

EDIT: BTW, what do you think happens when you put gasoline or ammo in a microwave? Same principle.
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']What ever happened to that military project that was supposed to replace tasers, pepper spray, etc.? It was like a green light that made everybody just get instantly ill and just stop whatever they were doing. They originally had them mounted on Humvees like spotlights and were going to eventually make them handheld units. The thing was initially for riot control, specifically the kind of mobs that show up at embassies with molotovs and AKs.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like Obadiah Stane in the Iron Man movie.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Does the low amperage render most of this video moot in terms of charge transference?

http://www.funny-videos.co.uk/videobrainiacelectricfrencetreatment.html[/QUOTE]
:lol:

Basically when someone shoots a taser, two metal probes shoot out and hit a person. Those probes use your body to complete a circuit, thus shocking you. Therefore anything in between those probes will probably feel a shock. Anything outside of those probes probably won't.

So if you're tasered and one probe hits your left bicep and the second hits your left hand, you will feel it in your left arm. However, if someone is holding your right hand, they won't feel it at all because they are nowhere near the middle of the circuit completion. Now to reference the video, if they are all holding hands, and the left person holds a probe and the right person holds a probe, then everyone will feel it.

Cops use this to get suspects under control during that 5-second window. So if someone gets tasered center mass, other cops can grab arms and start their handcuffing without feeling the taser, just as long as they don't touch the wires or anywhere inbetween the probes.
 
[quote name='darthbudge']She was assaulting another person, resisting arrest and then assaulting a police officer... doesn't really matter if you are 10 years old or not, those are still crimes. A little on the excessive side? Maybe, but the cop was still acting within reason.[/QUOTE]
Yea it does.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']If the pepper sprayed guy had grabbed one of the lasses, how effective would a taser be?[/QUOTE]

Considering how crappy the fumes made me feel, if he could take the spray full-on and still be fuctional enough to take a hostage, I'd say shoot the fucker.

(However, these were bouncers, not cops- I imagine they'd just beat the guy to a bloody pulp or something.)
 
[quote name='Mr_hockey66']
Your not going to taze me you stupid mother AGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/QUOTE]


LUL, as you were saying about not being tazed?
 
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