Could the PS3 Kill Sony?

[quote name='Cornfedwb']I'm afraid to post this given the fanboy responses.. but I thought this was an interesting read.

http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/entry/2100/could_the_playstation

And before I get somehow flamed for posting this, I enjoy all three of the current consoles and will probably own and enjoy each of the next generation.[/QUOTE]

First time I've ever seen you post something like this... I think that the Blue Ray is to expencive and if history has taught us anything, when sony makes hardware with propietary components and software it fails.

Beta, Minidisk...etc....etc.
 
I've thought about this but I never brought it up because I knew that I would be flamed. It's an intresting read. I hope it doesn't kill them.. competition is good.

But holy hell, what if they went the way of Sega and developed games for the 360.. I mean, I know it'd NEVER happen, but can you imagine that?
 
The only thing I think this article is forgetting is MS's total lack of Japan support, that alone could keep the PS3 afloat. Of course given what I've heard about the rapidly declining game market in Japan.. it could also crash the market there and hurt Sony even more.
 
[quote name='Cornfedwb']The only thing I think this article is forgetting is MS's total lack of Japan support, that alone could keep the PS3 afloat. Of course given what I've heard about the rapidly declining game market in Japan.. it could also crash the market there and hurt Sony even more.[/QUOTE]

I think people are just getting tired of the bullshit and flat-out lies. If the PS3 doesnt look exactly as good as the Killzone 2 trailer was...then I wont buy it, and I wont ever buy it. Games are getting to realistic and to over the top, and its killing the genre. I hate playing FPS(s), that are so realistic that I cant see where I'm getting shot from... and thats the future. Playing games like COD2, where you cant tell whos on your side or not cause they're both covered in mud.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I've said it before, I'll say it again: the PS3 will not ship with Blu-Ray. No way, no how.[/QUOTE]

You think Sony will really give up their chance to pimp the playstation to force Blu-Ray into people's homes?

I think they'll do whatever it takes to make it happen.. they've proven their shortsightedness with things like this before.
 
[quote name='Cornfedwb']You think Sony will really give up their chance to pimp the playstation to force Blu-Ray into people's homes?

I think they'll do whatever it takes to make it happen.. they've proven their shortsightedness with things like this before.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this, Sony has tried to monopolize the media market for +20 years... I dont think they would stop with this.
 
[quote name='Cornfedwb']You think Sony will really give up their chance to pimp the playstation to force Blu-Ray into people's homes?

I think they'll do whatever it takes to make it happen.. they've proven their shortsightedness with things like this before.[/QUOTE]

Well, given that the article points out load times as a detriment to the PS3, when they are well-documented on both the PS2 and PSP (not to mention PSX if you liked 2D fighters), I guess you have a point. Sony doesn't care what bullshit it gives to the public, since they'll buy it anyway.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Well, given that the article points out load times as a detriment to the PS3, when they are well-documented on both the PS2 and PSP (not to mention PSX if you liked 2D fighters), I guess you have a point. Sony doesn't care what bullshit it gives to the public, since they'll buy it anyway.[/QUOTE]

But if the Revolution has its $150-$200 price point as suggested and the 360 drops to $300-$350 when the PS3 comes out as suggested.. will people buy a $500 and up PS3 with poor loading times?
 
[quote name='Cornfedwb']But if the Revolution has its $150-$200 price point as suggested and the 360 drops to $300-$350 when the PS3 comes out as suggested.. will people buy a $500 and up PS3 with poor loading times?[/QUOTE]

Yep.
 
Yes people will still buy it. Most people that buy VG systems are morons. It's always been about the "In" thing.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Yep.[/QUOTE]

Not only will they buy one, but they'll buy another or get their original unit otherwise replaced, because of something that I'm going to christen, the "BR-DRE"

but seriously, there really has to be a price point at which you're going to see people actually consider NOT buying it.

They cant count on that many people buying it this time as a cheap Blu-Ray player like with DVDs.

My personal grudge against Sony is for treating NIS, Working Designs, and 2D sprite companies in general, very poorly. I hope they have their own personal Nintendo 64 where they have to sit in the corner for a while and think about what they've done.
 
I don't see it killing them but it could be a misstep on the level of the Nintendo 64.

The PS3 doesn't really fit into the equation for me. Im going to get a 360 for the online play and a Revolution for the single player (and hopefully some online) games. The PS3 just seems like alot of money for things I don't really need. Im sure i will miss out on some good games but I don;t think it will bother me that much.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']They cant count on that many people buying it this time as a cheap Blu-Ray player like with DVDs.[/QUOTE]

Blu-Ray players are expected to debut in the $1000+ range, the PS3 if it comes out at a $500 price point would still be a cheaper alternative.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']Thats what they said about the Sega Saturn.[/QUOTE]

That's a bad comparison in so many ways. If someone else wants to go into that, go ahead.

I'm no Sony fanboy, but I'm even less convinced by "consumers are rational actors" arguments.
 
[quote name='Vegan']Does this happen for every launch? So far all three new consoles have been predicted as company-killers.[/QUOTE]

You are correct. Google will buy all 3 companies within 5 years, only to launch their singular gaming platform, code named, the "G-Unit"

[quote name='Cornfedwb']Blu-Ray players are expected to debut in the $1000+ range, the PS3 if it comes out at a $500 price point would still be a cheaper alternative.[/QUOTE]

While this is true, the only potential customer base for this will be a much smaller subset of existing HDTV owners. Not everyone wants to rebuy their movie collection again just yet.
 
That article points out many of the reasons why I think Sony's lead will become marginal to the 360. I doubt it'll be the end of Sony though since they'll have many fans to fall back on and the PS2 will probably continue to sell.

Sony is just pushing the limits of basically telling people what they want rather then actually giving them an option.
 
I wonder if having a watered down blue ray player will not only have long load times, but cause issues when watching Blue ray movies?
 
I don't think we can assume anything, Sony knows loads times would be an issue, I doubt they would make a drive slower than 4x, did anyboday ever buy a 1x dvd rom for the pc? I think alot of the developers makeing noise, might be them wanting Sony to release enough info to make everybody make a decision on 360 or ps3 so they know where to spend there budget. Based on past experience of owning all major consoles except until a few weeks ago the PS2, I will buy a ps3 asap, I thought the Xbox was overall the biggest disappointement, it didn't know what it wanted to be ie (kid game/Adult game/online game) and online gameing is boring because to many people get online and become full of themselves because they have no real power in their real lives. even if teh first 2 years is kinda dull, Sony comes out winning when needed, I just hope the console market can slow its new found affection down for first person shooters, We have a good pc for FPS, we have consoles for everything else that pc gameing isn't as good at, ie Tomb Raider always controled better on Console, looked better on pc, but contolled better on console and control is key to fun.
 
[quote name='mercilessming'] I thought the Xbox was overall the biggest disappointement, it didn't know what it wanted to be ie (kid game/Adult game/online game) [/QUOTE]

That's ridiculous. You cater to everyone to make the most money. You obviously don't only realease kid games or Adult games.

I just think it is coming to the point where the only real upgrades you can have in a video game are graphical.

Look at the games for the 360. Absolutely nothing new. Im not paying $400 for a system that plays basically the exact same game (with minor upgrades) i can get for a hell of a lot less. Until somebody changes it up with a new style like GTA did, i think i will wait. I think that is a problem with a lot of people.

Why buy gun for $60 when you can get it for $30
Why buy DOA for $60 when you can get many similar games for half the price.
Why buy COD2 when you can get the exact same game play experience for cheaper on the xbox

Maybe it's just me but i doubt it. Something brand new (like the revolutions controller) is what is going to be needed to keep things moving forward.
 
[quote name='Scorch']I've thought about this but I never brought it up because I knew that I would be flamed. It's an intresting read. I hope it doesn't kill them.. competition is good.

But holy hell, what if they went the way of Sega and developed games for the 360.. I mean, I know it'd NEVER happen, but can you imagine that?[/QUOTE]

I think most of the must-have PS2 games are third party titles. What Sony exclusives are you envisioning coming out on other systems if they moved to software only? Sony doesn't have anything on the level of Sonic, and Sony doesn't seem to have Sega's game designing creativity either.

Dane.
 
[quote name='soonersfan60']I think most of the must-have PS2 games are third party titles. What Sony exclusives are you envisioning coming out on other systems if they moved to software only? Sony doesn't have anything on the level of Sonic, and Sony doesn't seem to have Sega's game designing creativity either.

Dane.[/QUOTE]

These games/series are 1st-party Sony:

Jak series
Gran Turismo series (and the upcoming motorcycle sim by the same dev)
ICO/Shadow of the Colossus
Ape Escape series
Wild Arms series
Twisted Metal series
Champions of Norrath series
Arc the Lad series

Those are just off the top of my head. Not that it matters tho. It boggles my mind how everyone envisions some mass-exodus of third-party Japanese developers to a console that is not selling in Japan. It's not going to happen. And I'm as excited about the Revolution as the next guy, but I see it as a companion system to my PS3, not a replacement. I'm pretty sure Nintendo is banking on the same thing, hence the low price point.

The only way the PS3 will kill Sony is if they happen to get crushed by all the $$ they make off of the thing.
 
But if I'm not mistaken, some (or many) of those are done by other developers with Sony just being the publisher. They are not developed by Sony themselves. I'm not saying the PS3 will tank, I'm just commenting on the other poster's desire to have "Sony" games available on Xbox 360. For some of those games, that would happen if Xbox 360 sells well enough--irrespective of whether or not Sony is in the hardware business. Look at the Crash games as one example of a once-exclusive Sony franchise going to other consoles. If the numbers make sense, some of these developers will find other publishers beyond Sony once their contracts run out. This is much different than the heated Sega vs. Nintendo rivalry before (Genesis vs. SNES) when there was no way Sonic would appear on a Nintendo console as long as Sega was in the console business. An in-house developed IP franchise would have no chance on another console as long as that console maker was in direct competition with a rival console. And most of the Sony titles you mentioned were not developed in-house, so I think that with few exceptions it is a matter of other consoles selling well enough (like in Japan) for the games to get ported to other systems, rather than a requirement that Sony be out of the console business (which is a stretch).

Dane.
 
[quote name='argyle']These games/series are 1st-party Sony:

Jak series
Gran Turismo series (and the upcoming motorcycle sim by the same dev)
ICO/Shadow of the Colossus
Ape Escape series
Wild Arms series
Twisted Metal series
Champions of Norrath series
Arc the Lad series

Those are just off the top of my head. Not that it matters tho. It boggles my mind how everyone envisions some mass-exodus of third-party Japanese developers to a console that is not selling in Japan. It's not going to happen. And I'm as excited about the Revolution as the next guy, but I see it as a companion system to my PS3, not a replacement. I'm pretty sure Nintendo is banking on the same thing, hence the low price point.

The only way the PS3 will kill Sony is if they happen to get crushed by all the $$ they make off of the thing.[/QUOTE]


God of War.
 
[quote name='soonersfan60']But if I'm not mistaken, some (or many) of those are done by other developers with Sony just being the publisher. [/QUOTE]


I was careful to only list games done by 1st-party Sony developers - hence the lack of Ratchet & Clank, Dark Cloud and others from my list. The only one of those that I'm not really sure is by a 1st-party dev is Wild Arms, but I believe it is.

God of War I didn't list for the same reason, I'm not sure the dev. is 1st-party Sony. They may be tho.
 
i think the concern over third party support comes from the crazy increase in development costs with developing for this new cell processor and the hd content all on a new media format...blu ray.
 
This thread is about as speculative as saying all the XBoxs are going to fry to a crisp at Bill (Satan) Gates command on 6-6-06.

I'm not flaming you guys. I respect your opinions. And I have many titles for all three systems and I enjoy them all.


But from my opinon, I live in a pretty large area with many gamers, and I only know one person who bought an XBOX 360, and it doesn't work. I'm not impressec. If the PS3 has even half as many bugs as the XBOX, I'll still be satisfied.
 
you might as well put Dark Cloud on the list as there is almost no chance of level 5 working for MS after what happen with True Fantasy Online.

Insomniac Games (R&C) and Media Vision (wild arms) have good relationship with sony, it is unlikely they will work for MS. Insomniac Games is currently working on a PS3 title. (Not sure if Sony owns those company, but it is very likely)
Sony went out and brought Naughty Dog (Jak)

Also should be on the list
Sccom
Sly
Hot Shot Golf
maybe Killzone

Sony owns the right to the games they publish, so even if the developer leaves Sony, Sony still owns the right.
 
Uggh....

Don't forget it is ALL ABOUT THE GAMES.

If Sony's initial line up of games are superior (and they will be) and the system is totally backwards compatible with the thousands of PS2 titles (as Xbox 360 is NOT with XBOX), and they do a better job of distribution/production then MS (they allways have in the past) then it will be another gaming system that is in trouble, not Sony.

TexTuna
 
[quote name='schuerm26']
I just think it is coming to the point where the only real upgrades you can have in a video game are graphical.

...

Maybe it's just me but i doubt it. Something brand new (like the revolutions controller) is what is going to be needed to keep things moving forward.[/QUOTE]

You're on the right track with what can be upgraded on a VG console. Graphics are something that can always be upgraded as technology improves. Hence every generation of consoles will be an improvement. Problem is, the improvements are getting smaller and smaller. The next big thing to look at when improving the console is how you interact with the game. That's why the Revolution is coming out with the new controller and it's also why the PS2 has so many different types of interactions (eye-toy, dance pads, controllers, etc.). Nintendo even tried to mess with the interaction part of gaming back with the NES when they came out with the Power Glove, the pad (for track and field), and even Virtual Boy. Unfortunately, so many people are dead set on using a regular controller that none of these types of new interactions really gets going. I think in order for a new console to truly be revolutionary, the base interaction needs to be something different. Unfortunately, like I pointed out earlier, Nintendo tried this and failed miserably with the Virtual Boy.

Besides the graphics and interaction, the only thing left to really mess with/upgrade is what the actual console itself can do. It's gone from just playing video games to now becoming a home entertainment system, and eventually will become an all in one home electronic control center which will even control your homes thermostat and alarm clocks.
 
[quote name='argyle']These games/series are 1st-party Sony:

Jak series
Gran Turismo series (and the upcoming motorcycle sim by the same dev)
ICO/Shadow of the Colossus
Ape Escape series
Wild Arms series
Twisted Metal series
Champions of Norrath series
Arc the Lad series

Those are just off the top of my head. Not that it matters tho. It boggles my mind how everyone envisions some mass-exodus of third-party Japanese developers to a console that is not selling in Japan. It's not going to happen. And I'm as excited about the Revolution as the next guy, but I see it as a companion system to my PS3, not a replacement. I'm pretty sure Nintendo is banking on the same thing, hence the low price point.

The only way the PS3 will kill Sony is if they happen to get crushed by all the $$ they make off of the thing.[/QUOTE]

God of War was created at SCEA Santa Monica, SOCOM from the recently acquired Zipper Interactive, Killzone from the recently acquired Guerrila Games.

I'm not sure if Sony owns Clap Hanz, the Hot Shots developer, though I know Sony owns the series itself.

There's the EyeToy series of games that continue to sell well, and are developed by the London branch of SCEE.

Also, there's the ATV Offroad Fury series of racing games that they own, but not the latest developer.
 
I don't think that PS3 will fail. I think the Japan market alone can sustain Sony and it's PS3 considering MS failed again to break into that market with the 360. As for Blu-Ray, really I don't see why Sony is pushing for the PS3 to come out the end of this year. It really should come out in 2007 when Blu-Ray will be cheaper. It's not like the 360 is a big graphical jump from the current generation of systems. I still think this current generation of systems still have a lot of life in them, I hate how it seems that the next generation feels like it's being force upon us too early.
 
^Too early??? Dreamcast came out in 1998, PS2 in 2000. Whichever you consider the start of past gen it still equals a long time. Its 2006 now and its time for something new.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']That's ridiculous. You cater to everyone to make the most money. You obviously don't only realease kid games or Adult games.

I just think it is coming to the point where the only real upgrades you can have in a video game are graphical.

Look at the games for the 360. Absolutely nothing new. Im not paying $400 for a system that plays basically the exact same game (with minor upgrades) i can get for a hell of a lot less. Until somebody changes it up with a new style like GTA did, i think i will wait. I think that is a problem with a lot of people.

Why buy gun for $60 when you can get it for $30
Why buy DOA for $60 when you can get many similar games for half the price.
Why buy COD2 when you can get the exact same game play experience for cheaper on the xbox

Maybe it's just me but i doubt it. Something brand new (like the revolutions controller) is what is going to be needed to keep things moving forward.[/QUOTE]


You've obviously never played Call of Duty 2 on the 360. While, on paper, it would seem to be like every other WWII FPS out there and would therefore offer the same gameplay experience but it doesn't. I've played plenty of FPS games (WWII and otherwise) and I've never experienced the same visceral feeling as I did when I played Call of Duty 2.

You argue that something new needs to be added to gaming to keep it going. What about NES to SNES? The controller added a couple buttons and other than that it just added graphics. The 2 biggest changes to gaming in the past 20 years have probably been the analog stick and a switch to optical based media to allow bigger games. Other than that the only thing that ever changes really is graphics.

Does the "new" revolution controller have the potential to change gaming? Yes. Is it necessary to keep gaming going? Nope. Now, not to turn this thread into fanboy rant but I want to discuss just how new the revolution controller is. It offers new and different peripherils? Look at all the different goofy controllers we've had this generation: a controller sword (failed), a bongo drum (pretty popular), a guitar (wildly popular), a dance mat (insanely popular), and so on. Basically this shows us that just because there is a fancy new peripheral doesn't mean it will be widely accepted. Beyond that what is so new about the revolution controller? I'm not trying to be a smartass about it but I honestly don't see what all the hype is about. Its a wireless controller that games may or may not support in-game pointing features is how I percieve it to be.
 
Anyone taking bets that the PS2 & games will still be the biggest seller for the 2006 xmas season?

This thread was D.O.A. Someone please put it out of its misery.
 
[quote name='Warner1281'] Nintendo even tried to mess with the interaction part of gaming back with the NES when they came out with the Power Glove, the pad (for track and field), and even Virtual Boy. Unfortunately, so many people are dead set on using a regular controller that none of these types of new interactions really gets going. .[/QUOTE]

how about they just sucked...if they were good they would have caught on..and if the revolution follows in the footsteps of those 2 things, then they are in trouble. Don't get me wrong i look forward to it, but I hear so many people talk about how great/innovative the ds is..but the majority of games on it, don't utlize the innovation of the system, and the ones that do, don't require much game time to finish

and how about in game characters ai, they still have a long way to go on that...playing cod2 on the 360, the enemy was a hell of a lot better then any other fps on the consoles...

I
 
The games will determine the console wars, I love the x box and the 360 for the graphical power they have. I love the Gamecube because of games like baten kaitos, resident evil 0,1 , 4, skies of arcadia legends. I still play my dreamcast , but the one i love the most is my ps2. When the 360 gets games like guitar hero, katamary damacy, grandia, God of war, then i'll change my mind. Yeah sony might screw us again with ps3 but if they keep getting all those games coming i wouldn't mind shelling out $ 500. X box live is cool but really if you put a list of great rpgs on the xbox to the ps2 who would win. I like the fact that the 360 is getting more RPG's but the lack of support in Japen IMO it will hurt them.
 
Ya, should have known better then to post this... although only about 50% fanboy rants is less then I expected.

However, to everyone who says PS3 will ROOL all! because they'll have the games.. read the section about the Cell chip and developers having problems writing for the system (if its too hard, they'll go to an easier system). I'd like to see all three systems in a relatively even race, but there are some interesting questions about Sony's chances brought up in the article.

Another article from the same site.. http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/entry/2128/hd-dvd_and_blu-ray Curious what that could mean to the PS3 release time.. if anything.
 
[quote name='Cornfedwb']
However, to everyone who says PS3 will ROOL all! because they'll have the games.. read the section about the Cell chip and developers having problems writing for the system (if its too hard, they'll go to an easier system). [/QUOTE]


See Also: Sega Saturn
 
Graphics from console to console are not going to change too much from the current gen to the next gen unless you have an HDTV. If you get any more realistic we are going to start having actual movies for videogames. This is why while Sony and Microsoft are taking huge losses on each console sold, I think Nintendo is going to come out the victor. Sure Sony and Microsoft might outsell it, but at what cost? A recent article I read on yahoo about the PS3 said it could potentially cost 900 dollars to make 1 system. Also, Microsoft and Sony are advertising their system as an all purpose media center.

I will say I will likely own all three at some point in the next 20 years after various price drops. But this winter when I walk into a store I am going to probably see this:

XBOX 360: 300 Dollars Premium
PS3: 400 Dollars
Revolution: 200 Dollars

Any idea what I'm going to buy?
 
[quote name='Deadpool']A Ps3?[/QUOTE]

Reading his post, I think he'll opt for a Revolution with 4 to 6 games at $50 a piece over a PS3 with NO games.
 
It can't kill them, even if it didn't move a single unit, which, of course, won't happen. There is a very good chance, though, that they won't win the console war, at least in america. It will be interesting to see if they will be willing to lose large sums of money to play second fiddle, or maybe even third, after leading for so long. It may lessen their focus on the video game industry, but japanese sales alone will almost certainly guarentee at least a PS4.
 
[quote name='mietha']It can't kill them, even if it didn't move a single unit[/QUOTE]

Considering Sony's profits over the past few years have been mainly from their console division, you may want to rethink that statement. If the PS3 fails horribly, it may start to lead Sony down the path of Sega, despite their other ventures.
 
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