Do you think oil will hit $150 a barrel by July 4?
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[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Huh?
1. Couldn't each building have its own set of batteries? Then, you only need the solar cells to keep the batteries charged.[/quote]
There are buildings that require more power than a simple residence. We're talking about powering a major city. And you're still landfilling batteries per residence * residences every few years. I'm sure in a perfect world everyone will recycle but even with a mandatory program, with the high volume of batteries you're dealing with, you're still going to see a lot of heavy metals dumped into landfills.
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']2. Nuclear is cheap and reliable until the fuel runs out. How much is left? 50 years? 500 years? Gee, the Sun will be humming for the next 1-3 billion years.
3. Nuclear waste is not clean. It requires underground storage for decades if not centuries. Batteries? Lead acid (20 year old tech) is >90% recyclable and lasts 3-5 years. NiMH (10 year old tech) is 100% recyclable and lasts 10 years. Li-Ion (5 year old tech) isn't considered waste in small doses. Hell, shrinks feed Lithium to crazy people.
[/quote]
To answer both of those questions, as I've mentioned before, breeder reactors go a long way towards solving both problems. We'd have enough fuel to last ~200,000 years with them, or 2000 years with conventional reactors. Since these breeder reactors recycle spent fuel, waste is reduced, and the radioactivity of the waste is reduced in both intensity and duration. It would not be all that difficult to store it somewhere for the decades required. Japan and France use this for the vast majority of their power needs, and I haven't seen any green glowing surrender monkeys yet.
Also, reactors run 24/7/365. Solar panels run 8-12 hours a day under optimal (sunny) conditions. Even if there is a breakthrough in solar technology, you're still looking at hundreds of square miles of solar panels to equal one nuke plant.
1. Couldn't each building have its own set of batteries? Then, you only need the solar cells to keep the batteries charged.[/quote]
There are buildings that require more power than a simple residence. We're talking about powering a major city. And you're still landfilling batteries per residence * residences every few years. I'm sure in a perfect world everyone will recycle but even with a mandatory program, with the high volume of batteries you're dealing with, you're still going to see a lot of heavy metals dumped into landfills.
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']2. Nuclear is cheap and reliable until the fuel runs out. How much is left? 50 years? 500 years? Gee, the Sun will be humming for the next 1-3 billion years.
3. Nuclear waste is not clean. It requires underground storage for decades if not centuries. Batteries? Lead acid (20 year old tech) is >90% recyclable and lasts 3-5 years. NiMH (10 year old tech) is 100% recyclable and lasts 10 years. Li-Ion (5 year old tech) isn't considered waste in small doses. Hell, shrinks feed Lithium to crazy people.
[/quote]
To answer both of those questions, as I've mentioned before, breeder reactors go a long way towards solving both problems. We'd have enough fuel to last ~200,000 years with them, or 2000 years with conventional reactors. Since these breeder reactors recycle spent fuel, waste is reduced, and the radioactivity of the waste is reduced in both intensity and duration. It would not be all that difficult to store it somewhere for the decades required. Japan and France use this for the vast majority of their power needs, and I haven't seen any green glowing surrender monkeys yet.
Also, reactors run 24/7/365. Solar panels run 8-12 hours a day under optimal (sunny) conditions. Even if there is a breakthrough in solar technology, you're still looking at hundreds of square miles of solar panels to equal one nuke plant.
omgu8myrice
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[quote name='Razzuel']
We could just unanimously boycott gas but we are too disjointed as citizens of the U.S. that that wouldn't happen.
[/quote]
Dont attack my sense of national pride for no reason. NO country in the world is unified enough to boycott like that, its not just 'us citizens'
We could just unanimously boycott gas but we are too disjointed as citizens of the U.S. that that wouldn't happen.
[/quote]
Dont attack my sense of national pride for no reason. NO country in the world is unified enough to boycott like that, its not just 'us citizens'
HeadRusch
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[quote name='help1']What? Sorry, the Sun isn't going to disappear anytime soon.[/QUOTE]
Ya THINK??!
What about the batteries required to harness that energy for use...batteries dont last forever, in fact...batteries dont last very long at all. And they're chock full of all sorts of nasty chemicals.
No big deal when your biggest battery is the rechargable one you use to power your iPod , but what do you think happens when everyone is tooling around in high-voltage battery powered cars...with huge banks of toxic batteries....and every 3-5 years those batteries need to be replaced??
Where does all that stuff go? Landfills? The Ocean?
So you can't just jump from one energy source to another....you have to think about responsibly using the energy we have available to us.
And that appears to be happening...in April..or was it may....AAA said that Americans drove 4.8 BILLION less miles. So how many miles to a gallon on average.....we saved alot of gas. If we can keep that up...
PS: Boycott? That doesn't get us anywhere..it'll just put gas stations (which make almost no money on gasoline, they make all their profits on sodas, lottery tickets and hostess twinkies) out of business. If anything, just drive smarter. No unnecessary trips, plan ahead before you hop in the car.
Simple little thing...makes a big difference if everyone does it.
Ya THINK??!
What about the batteries required to harness that energy for use...batteries dont last forever, in fact...batteries dont last very long at all. And they're chock full of all sorts of nasty chemicals.
No big deal when your biggest battery is the rechargable one you use to power your iPod , but what do you think happens when everyone is tooling around in high-voltage battery powered cars...with huge banks of toxic batteries....and every 3-5 years those batteries need to be replaced??
Where does all that stuff go? Landfills? The Ocean?
So you can't just jump from one energy source to another....you have to think about responsibly using the energy we have available to us.
And that appears to be happening...in April..or was it may....AAA said that Americans drove 4.8 BILLION less miles. So how many miles to a gallon on average.....we saved alot of gas. If we can keep that up...
PS: Boycott? That doesn't get us anywhere..it'll just put gas stations (which make almost no money on gasoline, they make all their profits on sodas, lottery tickets and hostess twinkies) out of business. If anything, just drive smarter. No unnecessary trips, plan ahead before you hop in the car.
Simple little thing...makes a big difference if everyone does it.
HeadRusch
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[quote name='dafoomie']Also, reactors run 24/7/365. Solar panels run 8-12 hours a day under optimal (sunny) conditions. Even if there is a breakthrough in solar technology, you're still looking at hundreds of square miles of solar panels to equal one nuke plant.[/QUOTE]
And you're also talking about a major percentage of diminishing returns the further outside the equator belt you live. In the Northeast and Northwest for example, Solar wouldn't produce nearly the return on investment that it will in state like Nevada or Florida or....
And you're also talking about a major percentage of diminishing returns the further outside the equator belt you live. In the Northeast and Northwest for example, Solar wouldn't produce nearly the return on investment that it will in state like Nevada or Florida or....
VanillaGorilla
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So 
ing frustrating. OPEC says oil could reach $170, so oil goes up. Just like when Morgan Stanley said $150 by July 4th, and it goes up. It's such bullshit. I wonder if someone says "Oil will be down to $100 by the end of the year!", it would go down.
$150 by the 4th is a done deal.
ing frustrating. OPEC says oil could reach $170, so oil goes up. Just like when Morgan Stanley said $150 by July 4th, and it goes up. It's such bullshit. I wonder if someone says "Oil will be down to $100 by the end of the year!", it would go down.$150 by the 4th is a done deal.
JolietJake
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[quote name='magiic']I think oil is going to cost more than printer ink pretty soon.[/quote]So they'll sell the cars for next to nothing, but charge out the ass for the gas?
I can see it now, $99 cars, but $50 a gallon gasoline.:lol:
I can see it now, $99 cars, but $50 a gallon gasoline.:lol:
fatherofcaitlyn
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[quote name='dafoomie']There are buildings that require more power than a simple residence. We're talking about powering a major city. And you're still landfilling batteries per residence * residences every few years. I'm sure in a perfect world everyone will recycle but even with a mandatory program, with the high volume of batteries you're dealing with, you're still going to see a lot of heavy metals dumped into landfills. [/quote]
If we're talking about a 10 story apartment building or an energy intensive manufacturing business, you're right. A solar panel roof won't power much more than a 2-4 family residence. It depends on which is more likely.
Regarding the landfill waste, I'm just not seeing it. We're not talking camera batteries. The batteries necessary to store 14 KWh of power would weigh over 700 kg if we're talking lead acid. That's too heavy to toss out with the trash. If you put a decent core charge or make it illegal or very difficult to buy replacement batteries without an old battery, people won't dispose of the batteries improperly.
[quote name='dafoomie']
To answer both of those questions, as I've mentioned before, breeder reactors go a long way towards solving both problems. We'd have enough fuel to last ~200,000 years with them, or 2000 years with conventional reactors. Since these breeder reactors recycle spent fuel, waste is reduced, and the radioactivity of the waste is reduced in both intensity and duration. It would not be all that difficult to store it somewhere for the decades required. Japan and France use this for the vast majority of their power needs, and I haven't seen any green glowing surrender monkeys yet.
Also, reactors run 24/7/365. Solar panels run 8-12 hours a day under optimal (sunny) conditions. Even if there is a breakthrough in solar technology, you're still looking at hundreds of square miles of solar panels to equal one nuke plant.[/quote]
I don't know enough about breeder reactors, but I know a little more about others. If their power outputs are much greater than what I'm about to list, my example won't work.
http://www.ameren.com/aboutus/ADC_AU_CallawayGuide.asp
The nuclear plant above generates 1,200,000 kWh when running. That's 28,800,000 kWh per day.
A square meter of solar panel can collect 800 - 2400 Wh per day (10-20% efficiency and 8-12 hours of sunshine).
28,800,000,000 divided by 800 or 2400 is 36,000,000 or 12,000,000 square meters. That's a square with a side of ~3500-6000 meters or ~3.5-6km. I'm pretty sure that won't convert to hundreds of square miles, but it is one huge solar panel.
Of course, we don't have to have just one large solar panel.
Callaway provides power for at least 500,000 people.
28,800,000 kWh divided by 500,000 people is 57.6 kWh used per person per day.
Assuming these people live in homes families of 4, they would require 250 kWh per day to live comfortably. (As an aside, my highest electric bill for my family of four was 3000 kWh used in a month. Dead of a cold winter with baseboard heaters.)
250 kWh divided by 800 Wh per square meter per day equals 312.5 square meters of solar panels needed per day.
That's a square with an edge of ~17.7 meters or ~59 feet. That's a house with a ~3500 square foot roof. Way too big!
However, the 2400 Wh example reduces the size of the roof to less than 1200 square feet. (My last house was 1400 square feet.)
If we're talking about a 10 story apartment building or an energy intensive manufacturing business, you're right. A solar panel roof won't power much more than a 2-4 family residence. It depends on which is more likely.
Regarding the landfill waste, I'm just not seeing it. We're not talking camera batteries. The batteries necessary to store 14 KWh of power would weigh over 700 kg if we're talking lead acid. That's too heavy to toss out with the trash. If you put a decent core charge or make it illegal or very difficult to buy replacement batteries without an old battery, people won't dispose of the batteries improperly.
[quote name='dafoomie']
To answer both of those questions, as I've mentioned before, breeder reactors go a long way towards solving both problems. We'd have enough fuel to last ~200,000 years with them, or 2000 years with conventional reactors. Since these breeder reactors recycle spent fuel, waste is reduced, and the radioactivity of the waste is reduced in both intensity and duration. It would not be all that difficult to store it somewhere for the decades required. Japan and France use this for the vast majority of their power needs, and I haven't seen any green glowing surrender monkeys yet.
Also, reactors run 24/7/365. Solar panels run 8-12 hours a day under optimal (sunny) conditions. Even if there is a breakthrough in solar technology, you're still looking at hundreds of square miles of solar panels to equal one nuke plant.[/quote]
I don't know enough about breeder reactors, but I know a little more about others. If their power outputs are much greater than what I'm about to list, my example won't work.
http://www.ameren.com/aboutus/ADC_AU_CallawayGuide.asp
The nuclear plant above generates 1,200,000 kWh when running. That's 28,800,000 kWh per day.
A square meter of solar panel can collect 800 - 2400 Wh per day (10-20% efficiency and 8-12 hours of sunshine).
28,800,000,000 divided by 800 or 2400 is 36,000,000 or 12,000,000 square meters. That's a square with a side of ~3500-6000 meters or ~3.5-6km. I'm pretty sure that won't convert to hundreds of square miles, but it is one huge solar panel.
Of course, we don't have to have just one large solar panel.
Callaway provides power for at least 500,000 people.
28,800,000 kWh divided by 500,000 people is 57.6 kWh used per person per day.
Assuming these people live in homes families of 4, they would require 250 kWh per day to live comfortably. (As an aside, my highest electric bill for my family of four was 3000 kWh used in a month. Dead of a cold winter with baseboard heaters.)
250 kWh divided by 800 Wh per square meter per day equals 312.5 square meters of solar panels needed per day.
That's a square with an edge of ~17.7 meters or ~59 feet. That's a house with a ~3500 square foot roof. Way too big!
However, the 2400 Wh example reduces the size of the roof to less than 1200 square feet. (My last house was 1400 square feet.)
mykevermin
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/04/business/worldbusiness/04markets.html?hp
It's coming down to the wire, that's for sure.
It's coming down to the wire, that's for sure.
PenguinoMF
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At this moment its $143.94. I can't wait to see what happens when election time rolls around.
bigdaddy
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[quote name='Limpbizkit182521']At this moment its $143.94. I can't wait to see what happens when election time rolls around.[/quote]
The oil companies will go "Well now that McCain lost we can't get more oil", so they will increase the price to $200 a barrel.
Or they will go "McCain won, now we will get more oil and charge an even more insane price", the price goes to $200 a barrel.
And my mom and grandparents look into the heating oil prices, people areed. Some here are too stupid to realize that, but it's true. My mom's house is the family house, my grandfather used to live here. 65 years ago the house had wood stove in the basement to heat it, now it's oil, so yes people will freeze because it's 91 degrees outside right now and heating oil is $4.80 a gallon. What will it be by Christmas? $7? $8? $10?
The oil companies will go "Well now that McCain lost we can't get more oil", so they will increase the price to $200 a barrel.
Or they will go "McCain won, now we will get more oil and charge an even more insane price", the price goes to $200 a barrel.
And my mom and grandparents look into the heating oil prices, people are
ed. Some here are too stupid to realize that, but it's true. My mom's house is the family house, my grandfather used to live here. 65 years ago the house had wood stove in the basement to heat it, now it's oil, so yes people will freeze because it's 91 degrees outside right now and heating oil is $4.80 a gallon. What will it be by Christmas? $7? $8? $10?
HeadRusch
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The rest of the world, by and large, pays $8 bucks a gallon or more, and they have FOR A LONG TIME.
We are now simply having to play catch-up thanks to our recession and weakening dollar.
The answer?
1) Wear warmer clothes
2) Turn the thermostat down
3) Improve the insulation in your house
and of course
4) Drive less, and when you do drive, drive more responsibly. People seem to be doing this today, which is a good sign.
We are now simply having to play catch-up thanks to our recession and weakening dollar.
The answer?
1) Wear warmer clothes
2) Turn the thermostat down
3) Improve the insulation in your house
and of course
4) Drive less, and when you do drive, drive more responsibly. People seem to be doing this today, which is a good sign.
bigdaddy
Banned
Fun facts about Europe....
They pay $8 a gallon because of taxes.
They have a public transportation system that isn't a joke.
They don't spend trillions a year for an army, and can help people in need.
My mom sets the temp in her house to 60-62, what would you like it at? 40? I put up plastic on the windows, and extra doors last year, we sealed the windows, and added a little more insulation to the attic. The heating bill was still $1,800 (That I'm aware of, could have been more) and the price for this year doubled, and is still going up.
They pay $8 a gallon because of taxes.
They have a public transportation system that isn't a joke.
They don't spend trillions a year for an army, and can help people in need.
My mom sets the temp in her house to 60-62, what would you like it at? 40? I put up plastic on the windows, and extra doors last year, we sealed the windows, and added a little more insulation to the attic. The heating bill was still $1,800 (That I'm aware of, could have been more) and the price for this year doubled, and is still going up.
Dead of Knight
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[quote name='HeadRusch']
4) Drive less, and when you do drive, drive more responsibly. People seem to be doing this today, which is a good sign.[/QUOTE]
LOL, you haven't been to Ohio. People still drive their SUVs, minivans, and trucks on the highway at 70-85mph with a speed limit of 65. I was able to get a respectable 25mpg (the actual EPA upper limit for highway driving on my car that no one ever seems to reach) out of my V8 muscle car on the highway going a mere 65 on a trip to Cincy for work; I'm sure theseers got less than 10mpg. And then they drive 15 miles below the speed limit in a 45 mph zone, further reducing their mpg in slow areas. Ohio drivers are completely nonsensical. Everyone here complains about the gas prices, then they don't want to change their driving habits to accomodate. them. I don't have one bit of sympathy for people who don't at least TRY to change their driving or lifestyle habits, and then bitch about high gas, energy, and food prices. I would like to get a more fuel efficient car in the near future, but I am currently doing the best I can with the car I have; that's ALL I ask of people.
4) Drive less, and when you do drive, drive more responsibly. People seem to be doing this today, which is a good sign.[/QUOTE]
LOL, you haven't been to Ohio. People still drive their SUVs, minivans, and trucks on the highway at 70-85mph with a speed limit of 65. I was able to get a respectable 25mpg (the actual EPA upper limit for highway driving on my car that no one ever seems to reach) out of my V8 muscle car on the highway going a mere 65 on a trip to Cincy for work; I'm sure these
ers got less than 10mpg. And then they drive 15 miles below the speed limit in a 45 mph zone, further reducing their mpg in slow areas. Ohio drivers are completely nonsensical. Everyone here complains about the gas prices, then they don't want to change their driving habits to accomodate. them. I don't have one bit of sympathy for people who don't at least TRY to change their driving or lifestyle habits, and then bitch about high gas, energy, and food prices. I would like to get a more fuel efficient car in the near future, but I am currently doing the best I can with the car I have; that's ALL I ask of people.
HeadRusch
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[quote name='bigdaddy']Fun facts about Europe....
They pay $8 a gallon because of taxes.
They have a public transportation system that isn't a joke.
They don't spend trillions a year for an army, and can help people in need.
[/QUOTE]
Sounds like Europe is the place for you! Good Luck!
It sucks....but your only options are to wear a thicker sweater or move into a smaller house, or heat individual rooms. Supplement with a space-heater if that is convenient.
Here's the reality: We, in this country, have long been able to afford to live anywhere. In the middle of the frickin desert? No problem, get triple A/C units and pay the electric bill on time. In the freezing north? No sweat, pay the oil/gas bill on time. Energy was cheap and the world was happy...well, at least we were.
NOw, prices are going up...and the reality is that alot of people can't afford to LIVE in those same homes anymore...they can't afford to heat them, to cool them, etc.
What sort of answer are you looking for......prices are what they are. You do what you can to minimize impact. If the heating is that out of control, look into Solar Panels for the roof. Lower your electric bill and defer that money you save to budgeting for your oil/gas bill in the winter.
They pay $8 a gallon because of taxes.
They have a public transportation system that isn't a joke.
They don't spend trillions a year for an army, and can help people in need.
[/QUOTE]
Sounds like Europe is the place for you! Good Luck!
It sucks....but your only options are to wear a thicker sweater or move into a smaller house, or heat individual rooms. Supplement with a space-heater if that is convenient.
Here's the reality: We, in this country, have long been able to afford to live anywhere. In the middle of the frickin desert? No problem, get triple A/C units and pay the electric bill on time. In the freezing north? No sweat, pay the oil/gas bill on time. Energy was cheap and the world was happy...well, at least we were.
NOw, prices are going up...and the reality is that alot of people can't afford to LIVE in those same homes anymore...they can't afford to heat them, to cool them, etc.
What sort of answer are you looking for......prices are what they are. You do what you can to minimize impact. If the heating is that out of control, look into Solar Panels for the roof. Lower your electric bill and defer that money you save to budgeting for your oil/gas bill in the winter.
bread's done