ECA Discussion Thread - WARNING: Some CAGs Who Cancelled Are Being Auto-Renewed

[quote name='Siterath']I'd suggest that we don't allow our big box to remove our focus from the issues that forced us to cancel in the first place. For instance, as just one of many examples, the continued failure of the ECA to notify its members of the TOS change related to cancellations.

So yes, my name was in the big box, and I am going to be glad to be rid of them, but it doesn't change what they did in the first place that led me to this point. And I think we should keep a focus on that until they rectify it, by keeping in touch with online news orgs and ECA partners, and making sure those who have reported on it, continue to do so until the situation is resolved.[/QUOTE]
I have little faith it will ever be resolved. Hal has been silent on that point. They claim they're going to notify people going forward, by using the newsletter that not everyone gets. :roll: I guess I'll just be glad to get rid of them, once my cancellation is processed.
 
[quote name='maximumzero']Well what the hell how was I supposed to know?[/QUOTE]
There was a really long period of time where it didn't go a few posts without being mentioned. Regardless, it wasn't official; it was just two CAGs who put 700-some names together and shipped it. If you really want or need to cancel now, it would probably be more efficient to send a letter on your own.

[quote name='arcane93']Ok, but so few of those news organizations and partners have taken it seriously. Most have bought into Hal's explanation of the situation without question, no matter how convoluted and obviously incorrect it is. Do you really think that pounding these people with the same thing over and over again, if they chose to ignore it the first (and second, and third, etc.) time around, is really going to make a difference? I'm not saying to let it die, but if you're going to keep going with it, you need to find another angle of approach.[/QUOTE]
I have to agree. As much as I commend anyone for continuing this, the same group of people sending the same message over and over is not getting us anywhere. Especially since the majority of us already canceled.
 
Aww man I missed the box cancellation :( anyone doing it again?

Edit: I was still trying to catch up in the original thread only got as far as page 62 today. If anyone doing mass cancellation again can you toss me in too? Let me know what info you need.
 
I sent out a Google postcard and my info was #1 on the GoogleDoc. I can still login, so I'm sure they have not touched the box yet.
 
Back in the old thread I wondered where the ECA was on issues that actually affected gamers as consumers, and brought up that they appear to have no stance on paying for a game with extra content on the disc, then having to pay more to "unlock" that extra content as "DLC."

While posting in the Newegg thread about their deceptive business practice of re-selling games that have been opened and possibly used as "new" made me wonder - where is the ECA on this issue? This is an especially notorious problem with GameStop, a company that plays a big role in game consumption.

Here's an article from Kotaku about what GameStop is/was doing:

http://kotaku.com/5254827/gamestop-class-action-attorney-investigating-latest-used-as-new-claims

You'd think maybe the ECA would step up and demand GameStop and other retailers to stop that practice.

But when Hal Halpin has already been in bed with the retailers - as the founder of the video game industry's retail trade association Interactive Entertainment Merchants Association (IEMA) that merged with Video Software Dealers Association (VSDA) to form Entertainment Merchants Association (EMA) - perhaps he and the ECA aren't going to be too quick to condemn any unfriendly and illegal retail practices.
 
You'd think maybe the ECA would step up and demand GameStop and other retailers to stop that practice.
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I was amazed at the ECA staff blitzkrieg on the forums and the interviews on the various game sites. This is when I knew the ECA was just an organization out to waste our time. All that effort they expended to save face. Imagine if they used that energy to fight these corporations.
 
[quote name='CrankyFrank']I was amazed at the ECA staff blitzkrieg on the forums and the interviews on the various game sites. This is when I knew the ECA was just an organization out to waste our time. All that effort they expended to save face. Imagine if they used that energy to fight these corporations.[/QUOTE]

Eh, they really just sent out one form letter to everyone. As far as I saw, there were no interviews other than Hal's fake "interview" on the GameCulture site. Really, the near complete lack of response to the whole issue from the ECA just exemplifies for me the utter laziness of the organization. If they're willing to devote so little effort to dealing with their own internal problems, I can only imagine how little actual energy they give to "advocacy" work.
 
[quote name='CrankyFrank']I was amazed at the ECA staff blitzkrieg on the forums and the interviews on the various game sites. This is when I knew the ECA was just an organization out to waste our time. All that effort they expended to save face. Imagine if they used that energy to fight these corporations.[/QUOTE]

You do know that when you can't find work or can't start your own business.. the next thing to do is to start an NPO, so you can earn some income. Based on Hal and his staffs actions/comments, I can honestly say that this is the case.

Most people doesn't know that Non-Profit Organization (NPO), still need to make "profit" to pay for its employess. Let's say you donate $1, probably only 20% goes to the actual cause, while 80% is spent on salary, marketing material, travelling, etc. There is some guidelines from government about salary cap, etc but not sure if they're doing a good job of auditing.

IMO, most NPO is just wasting our time and/or money. I normally just donate through my company charity event or volunteering at shelters.
 
700 names + others that people had submitted themselves are a big list to go through, ECA will probably needs some time to go through everyone on the list. Not to mention it's the holiday season, so probably not everyone is in the office to go thought the cancelation notice.
 
so I thought split reason was pulling their support, but I just saw an add for them in a ECA newsletter. Anyone know if they went through with pulling their support?
 
[quote name='manumana10']so I thought split reason was pulling their support, but I just saw an add for them in a ECA newsletter. Anyone know if they went through with pulling their support?[/QUOTE]

Entering the promo code still works, so apparently they haven't.

I think they're split.
 
Lots of good discussion here. My two cents, and it's been said in part before, that the ECA wants to be done with "us," the vocal minority. Once they weed out the people who are dissatisfied they can go back to business as usual. Like gi60 said, non-profit or not, their goal is to still make a profit. Let's do some quick math. CheapyD had said that he estimated 1,000-3,000 people signed up during the free promo. It was on Slickdeals as well (that forum had 642 responses), so that could be much higher.

Let's assume 3,000 new members just on these new subscriptions. (Which I believe to be a very conservative number)
1,000 leave because they actually followed this whole thing and just didn't blindly sign up and forget about it.
$20 next year in renewal fees x 2,000 members (who may or may not notice the auto renewal)
$40,000 in new renewal fees.

Are they going to get rich off of it? No, but as has been stated, what exactly are they doing for Gamers? What is their overhead besides staff? They didn't pay for those Amazon codes, a lot of these partnerships are mutual and there to drum up business and build awareness for these sites, so their out of pocket is zero or very minimal. I did hear that Hal wrote a sternly worded letter to Fox one time. $40,000 for a letter, not too bad in my book.

Again, these are really just conservative numbers, and yes, it takes more than $40K a year to run a business, but the Crest Group's mission is to run a non-profit like a for-profit and I believe that was Hal's whole idea with this promotion in the first place - Get as many people to sign up for this free service, then charge them a $20 renewal fee every year until the end of time and hope they don't notice.

$40,000 isn't much now, but after 10 years $400,000 is.
 
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I just got an email confirming my snail mail letter made it there under normal circumstances and they have processed my request for cancellation along with removing my information. I mailed my letter on 12/08. Checking the website I'm unable to login so it seems to be over and done with for me. I do hope everyone else gets processed soon.
 
[quote name='Loonknight']I just got an email confirming my snail mail letter made it there under normal circumstances and they have processed my request for cancellation along with removing my information. I mailed my letter on 12/08. Checking the website I'm unable to login so it seems to be over and done with for me. I do hope everyone else gets processed soon.[/QUOTE]

BOOOOOOO...

It looks like they're really making no effort to tackle the CAG Cancellation box.

Good for you Loonknight. It looks like some CAG's are finally able to wash their hands of this horrendous NPO.
 
[quote name='blk00civicsi']BOOOOOOO...

It looks like they're really making no effort to tackle the CAG Cancellation box.

Good for you Loonknight. It looks like some CAG's are finally able to wash their hands of this horrendous NPO.[/QUOTE]

Well, or you could look at it as . . . He mailed his letter on 12/8, and the CAG box was also mailed on 12/8. Assuming that they've been doing them in the order received, that means that we should start to see some movement on the box soon.

Of course that's a guess, assuming that they are doing them in the order received, but it's reasonable.
 
Just tried to log in and failed. I was part of the big box and I also did the gmail postcard thing. Regardless I am now, officially, done with the ECA. If they try and charge me next year, I'll dispute.
 
[quote name='Angelwatch']Just tried to log in and failed. I was part of the big box and I also did the gmail postcard thing. Regardless I am now, officially, done with the ECA. If they try and charge me next year, I'll dispute.[/QUOTE]
Ditto here.
 
[quote name='Outinthedark']I was part of the box as well. Tried to log in and could not. Thanks again CAG :D[/QUOTE]

Me too!:applause:

I was only part of the CAG box. I was gonna send an individual letter after new years if I wasn't canceled by then, but now it looks like I won't have to.

Thanks to everyone who was involved with creating & sending the mass cancellation letters.:D
 
I just got an e-mail from the ECA confirming my cancellation. Tried to log-in and was denied. Woo-hoo!

And I'm glad that the mass cancellation letter worked/is working. Glad to help! And thanks to simmias for sending them out!
 
I thought my felllow CAGS would like to know that we are still being heard.


Today I got confirmation from the GM of marketing for AAFES.com

I had emailed them when this all started about having them remove their eca membership cards that they sell and that were advertised on theeca.com page as carrying them.

He told me the cards will be removed right away and thanked me for my info that i had provided.

AAFES.com is a website that sells merchandise to military members and fully investigated this issue.


1 less site carrying theeca cards is a good thing.
 
[quote name='Loonknight']I just got an email confirming my snail mail letter made it there under normal circumstances and they have processed my request for cancellation along with removing my information. I mailed my letter on 12/08. Checking the website I'm unable to login so it seems to be over and done with for me. I do hope everyone else gets processed soon.[/QUOTE]

I got one of these as well, I don't know if it's from the Google Xmas card I sent them or from the CAG box. :lol:
 
[quote name='LuisRM']Lots of good discussion here. My two cents, and it's been said in part before, that the ECA wants to be done with "us," the vocal minority. Once they weed out the people who are dissatisfied they can go back to business as usual. Like gi60 said, non-profit or not, their goal is to still make a profit. Let's do some quick math. CheapyD had said that he estimated 1,000-3,000 people signed up during the free promo. It was on Slickdeals as well (that forum had 642 responses), so that could be much higher.

Let's assume 3,000 new members just on these new subscriptions. (Which I believe to be a very conservative number)
1,000 leave because they actually followed this whole thing and just didn't blindly sign up and forget about it.
$20 next year in renewal fees x 2,000 members (who may or may not notice the auto renewal)
$40,000 in new renewal fees.

Are they going to get rich off of it? No, but as has been stated, what exactly are they doing for Gamers? What is their overhead besides staff? They didn't pay for those Amazon codes, a lot of these partnerships are mutual and there to drum up business and build awareness for these sites, so their out of pocket is zero or very minimal. I did hear that Hal wrote a sternly worded letter to Fox one time. $40,000 for a letter, not too bad in my book.

Again, these are really just conservative numbers, and yes, it takes more than $40K a year to run a business, but the Crest Group's mission is to run a non-profit like a for-profit and I believe that was Hal's whole idea with this promotion in the first place - Get as many people to sign up for this free service, then charge them a $20 renewal fee every year until the end of time and hope they don't notice.

$40,000 isn't much now, but after 10 years $400,000 is.[/QUOTE]

I've said this before.
Theeca doesnt care about the actual money from membership fees.
Look at their taxes
They reported around 6,900 in" membership fees" in 2007
We are still waiting for 2008 taxes to show up online.
Thats not a whole lot of money from membership.

They (Hal,hisdad,1 or 2 emploees) make their money in "management fees"
As shown in taxes of around 1.5million dollars.

You get more sponsors by showing an increase in membership year over year.
This is the single reason why imo they gave out a free code before the end of this year. To fudge their number of members that have supporting them.

Sort of like myspace claiming over 120million members (when probably 20% never logged in since creating their myspace profile,20-30% are fake/madeup profiles etc etc)

Sponsors want "eyeballs" how many eyeballs do you have?
The more you have or can claim you have the more sponsors are willing to work with you.


Also take a look at their forums (if they are up) their userbase on the forums is freaking TINY.
Its a joke when you compare CAG users to eca users. Or pretty much ANY active forums on the internets.
 
Just got my cancellation email in as well.

I can't say I'm 100% satisfied, as the ECA hasn't really shown any real action to the rest of our concerns. I suppose it's 3 steps backwards, and 1 step forward.
 
Yeah, it is still a shame that the ECA seems to be completely incompetent. I'll be sending in my cancellation in a couple weeks. Maybe the one employee will be done with the CAG box by then. Hal is probably popping champagne with his industry buddies, enjoying his million bucks in management fees.
 
Yess!!!
thank you for your letter requesting to terminate your membership with the entertainment consumers association (eca). This notice is confirmation that your request has been processed and your membership in the organization, cancelled.
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Still haven't gotten canceled either and was part of the big box. I'll give it a few more days. Never thought about what Ivanhoe said up above about them just trying to boost their numbers but it makes sense. Also, is anyone else wondering why the cancellation button STILL isn't up? Wouldn't this save them a ton of time and effort?
 
I just got an email confirming my account got cancelled, I sent a google postcard and was #45 on the list. I can't log into my account anymore :applause::applause::applause:

Thanks again Reira and Simmias!

Thank you for your letter requesting to terminate your membership with the Entertainment Consumers Association (ECA). This notice is confirmation that your request has been processed and your membership in the organization, cancelled.

All credit card information relevant to processing your dues has been removed, so if you wish to re-join the association going forward new/updated payment information will need to be manually re-entered.

To re-join the ECA, please visit http://www.theeca.com.

Thank you.
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Well my account is still active, but its not a big deal as it's clear they are moving down the cancellation list ... so they'll get to me soon enough.

However when it comes to some other updates, I should note, that the forum is still down, but Maingear has now been removed from the membership benefits page.
 
my cancellation went through, got the email, and cant log in. sent a google post card, and signed the big list. i was like number 18 or so. glad i saw this thread
 
[quote name='garfep']Got a letter from them in the mail today confirming my cancellation. Glad to be done with this.

[/QUOTE]

Just curious, did that have a regular stamp, generic bulk stamp or something different?

[quote name='Ivanhoe']I've said this before.
Theeca doesnt care about the actual money from membership fees.
Look at their taxes
They reported around 6,900 in" membership fees" in 2007
We are still waiting for 2008 taxes to show up online.
Thats not a whole lot of money from membership.

They (Hal,hisdad,1 or 2 emploees) make their money in "management fees"
As shown in taxes of around 1.5million dollars.

You get more sponsors by showing an increase in membership year over year.
This is the single reason why imo they gave out a free code before the end of this year. To fudge their number of members that have supporting them.

Sort of like myspace claiming over 120million members (when probably 20% never logged in since creating their myspace profile,20-30% are fake/madeup profiles etc etc)

Sponsors want "eyeballs" how many eyeballs do you have?
The more you have or can claim you have the more sponsors are willing to work with you.


Also take a look at their forums (if they are up) their userbase on the forums is freaking TINY.
Its a joke when you compare CAG users to eca users. Or pretty much ANY active forums on the internets.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, I was repeating a lot of what other people said in various posts. You're right on the money though with the whole pumped up numbers = more money angle.
 
[quote name='LuisRM']Just curious, did that have a regular stamp, generic bulk stamp or something different?[/QUOTE]

Looks like they printed it. Here's the postmark:

 
Just received an email:

Thank you for your letter requesting to terminate your membership with the Entertainment Consumers Association (ECA). This notice is confirmation that your request has been processed and your membership in the organization, cancelled.

All credit card information relevant to processing your dues has been removed, so if you wish to re-join the association going forward new/updated payment information will need to be manually re-entered.

To re-join the ECA, please visit http://www.theeca.com.


Thank you.
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I hope they sent a hard copy in the mail as well.
 
[quote name='garfep']Got a letter from them in the mail today confirming my cancellation. Glad to be done with this.

[/QUOTE]

Funny how the letter isn't even personally addressed to you, nor does it appear dated in any way, or make any mention of your account or membership number. If you had to, you couldn't even tell your credit card company what date they supposedly canceled your account if you got re-billed, nor could you even prove that the letter is even directed to you (assuming you threw out the envelope).

Just more shoddy half assed work by the ECA, but that's no shock. I sort of feel bad for the person who has to sit there and process all the cancellations and stuff all the envelopes with these letters, but you'd think someone would tell this person how to do it professionally.

I'm guessing they didn't hand write your name and address on that envelope, so they could have easily created a mail merge in Word to personalize the letters. Then again, maybe all their "technical" resources are hard at work at "fixing" their website so they didn't know how to do this.
 
Glad to hear the mass cancellation seems to be coming through for your folks!

Does anyone know of another mass mailing that is being set up, for those of us who missed this one?
 
Just got my email overnight. Was actually getting a little concerned that I wouldn't receive a confirmation just in case I do need to dispute next year.

I've still got a lot of concerns with them as a consumer advocacy group but my part in the fight is over. I'm now just walking away from the whole situation.
 
[quote name='kodave']Funny how the letter isn't even personally addressed to you, nor does it appear dated in any way, or make any mention of your account or membership number. If you had to, you couldn't even tell your credit card company what date they supposedly canceled your account if you got re-billed, nor could you even prove that the letter is even directed to you (assuming you threw out the envelope).

Just more shoddy half assed work by the ECA, but that's no shock. I sort of feel bad for the person who has to sit there and process all the cancellations and stuff all the envelopes with these letters, but you'd think someone would tell this person how to do it professionally.

I'm guessing they didn't hand write your name and address on that envelope, so they could have easily created a mail merge in Word to personalize the letters. Then again, maybe all their "technical" resources are hard at work at "fixing" their website so they didn't know how to do this.[/QUOTE]

I actually kept the envelope for that exact reason, just to have some proof of when it was sent, at least. And yeah, the address is just a label stuck to the front, so I'm guessing they stuffed a few hundred of these generic letters into envelopes and now they're just taking time to stick labels to all of them and get them sent out.
 
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