EGM september - Lair (and everything else) panned, Persona 3 gotm

Is Lair kinda supposed to be Rogue Squadron with dragons?

If so, I guess I can see how it could turn out bad -- on the flip side, I could see how it could sound so cool.

I would have loved to bought a new PS3 title. Guess I gotta wait.

Don't forget to take note that EGM's reviews are always... off. At least, in my opinion / experience.
 
Im not sure why this was ever considered one of PS3's best games coming out, since I always thought it was shit. You guys should forget about this one and start praising Heavenly Sword, because that game actually looks good.
 
Onoz, EGM gave bad ratings! Here's what it's boiled down to...

EGM MUST SUCK!

and

THOSE GAMES SUCK! NOT BUYING!

What are you guys, fucking robots? Have to like what others like and what not? Mediocre reviews aside, I will still be buying Blue Dragon. I will also still enjoy reading EGM as it's not GamePro and it's not a magazine dedicated to one brand nor being paid to like one company over the other.
 
:shock:

Wow. This thread is...

...

...

...

...just wow. Threads like this make me wonder how long it's going to be until some local news station has a report on two kids injuring each other after fighting over the inherent superiority of the PS3 or 360.

EDIT: Also, what Tsukento said.
 
i find it pretty funny that people are focused on how bad the Lair review and not how mediocre Blue Dragon turned out...
 
Do remember that Famitsu gave Blue Dragon a 37 out of 40 and that it's the highest selling 360 title, when the Japanese still hate the Xbox. Remember when IGN rated Zelda on Wii as 8.8 when others were giving it a 10 or 9?

It's all a matter of editorial opinion. Pretty much everything but NCAA Football and Persona 3 got mediocre reviews. Something is obviously wrong when a Football game is rated higher than everything else. And don't forget, if the magazine's already printed at this point and beginning to ship out, then obviously they haven't gotten final copies of ALL of their games reviewed. Sometimes they have to go with beta copies sent in that are near complete.
 
[quote name='Tsukento']Remember when IGN rated Zelda on Wii as 8.8 when others were giving it a 10 or 9?[/quote] You can't remember IGN doing that... since it was Gamespot that gave it a 8.8.
 
[quote name='Chibi_Kaji']You can't remember IGN doing that... since it was Gamespot that gave it a 8.8.[/QUOTE]

Oh, the wailing and gnashing of teeth over that score! :lol: I remember that.
 
[quote name='Magus8472']Wha, they're magazine reviews. Are all of you used to making decisions sight unseen based on what other people tell you to think?[/QUOTE]
QFT.

Play the games yourselves. Stop being drones. I'll be picking up DW Gundam and I'll love it like I love all the DW style games. Just because some guys you don't know don't like the game doesn't mean you won't. If one of those games looked great to you before you saw the score, then get it. You'll probably like it regardless of what some guy who gets paid to share his opinion with the world thinks.
 
[quote name='daroga']So, CoffeeEdge is Francis from Super Paper Mario? Arguing about games on the internet we've not played. That adds to the mental picture greatly. Awesome.[/QUOTE]


*swish*

Combine that with that one gif where the guy slams on his keyboard until he's dead and bloody and we have a perfect match.
 
These are legit reviews, in case anyone was unsure.

I wasn't going to bother with Persona 3, but after seeing this, and looking on GameRankings, it's getting phenomenal scores. So maybe I will grab it.

Lair, BD, and Luminous Arc are surprisingly low.

From NeoGAF:

Lair:
crispin says the combat system is confusing, and the sixaxis controls don't always work the way they should. lock-on system is also jacked.
greg ford says the camera is frustrating in ground combat. the wide open levels hold a lot of potential but ultimately don't deliver
garnett says it's a "frustrating disappointment" with a few bright spots
Click to expand...
Blue Dragon:
it has neither strong characters nor gripping storytelling, the battle system is "stellar" but unaccompanied by any sort of interesting plot to hang your hat on. bryan is a bit easier on the story than andrew fitch (who had the lead review), and ray called it "safe."
Click to expand...
 
Meh, I've hated EGM for quite a while. They've given most of the games I really like a bad review score. For an example, I really liked Samurai Warriors 2, and they gave it an average of 4.5. One reason I don't subscribe to the magazine or even take it if offered free because I think it's garbage. I absolutely love the demo to DW GUNDAM and that review isn't changing my mind about buying it. Blue Dragon was a game I badly wanted, until playing the demo (didn't like it), but I feel that review was too low. I remember EGM and others gave terrible reviews for Monster Hunter, yet the franchise is huge in Japan and there are many fans of the series here.

As for Lair, I'll just say I've been mixed about the game all along.
+The concept of the game sounds really cool and appealing to me, which is why I had some interests in it.
+I do like a pretty high percentage of the stuff SCE publishes.
-When SCE gets too quiet about a game, it usually doesn't mean good. They made no mention of Lair at Gamers Day in May, and didn't have any special showing of the game at E3 (they didn't even mention it during their press conference I believe).
-Never been a Factor 5 fan, but then again, they made Star Wars games and I highly dislike Star Wars in the first place (one reason I hated KOTOR badly, Star Wars just isn't for me).

Lair is just a game I want to play the demo of (or rent), and then I'll make a final judgement based on that. I probably wouldn't have bought VT3 and AC4 on my PS3 if it weren't for the demos. I might have held off longer on Formula One CE if I didn't play a demo.

Persona 3 is a game I want, but even if it got a bad score, I'd still buy it.
 
Another month, another reason to stick with my PS2 and more money for :beer:

Who was it trying to say that 360 could compete with PS2 in RPGs this year?
 
[quote name='happy']

Who was it trying to say that 360 could compete with PS2 in RPGs this year?[/QUOTE]



I believe that was.....everyone. The blue dragon demo sucked-- the long animations for attacks remind me of the in-battle load times in Magna Carta. oh, and though it's cliche to call stuff kiddy....the game is kiddy as hell :lol:
 
Honestly I was expecting mixed reviews for Persona 3 with some review places liking it and some places hating it, hopefully this helps sales and we get FES.
 
Before being too surprised about Lair, remember factor 5's last game, Rogue Squadron 2 was pretty shitty. Pretty graphics can't mask bad gameplay.

Dissapointed in Blue Dragon's scores though. Guess I can hold off on that for even longer.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Oh, the wailing and gnashing of teeth over that score! :lol: I remember that.[/quote] I think everyone remembers it.:lol:

[quote name='jer7583']Before being too surprised about Lair, remember factor 5's last game, Rogue Squadron 2 was pretty shitty. Pretty graphics can't mask bad gameplay.[/quote]
You mean Rogue Squadron 3 right?
 
First, it's pointless for anyone to listen to Coffee Edge. The guy bitches more then a tween PMSing.

Second, I'll wait and see with Lair. Play gave it a high score, while EGM gave it an average one (Yes, 5.0 to EGM is average).
 
[quote name='seanr1221']First, it's pointless for anyone to listen to Coffee Edge. The guy bitches more then a tween PMSing.

Second, I'll wait and see with Lair. Play gave it a high score, while EGM gave it an average one (Yes, 5.0 to EGM is average).[/QUOTE]

I think I'd trust Play over EGM. However, my trust in magazines is often incorrect.
 
Lair never looked good to me, I don't know why so many people had high hopes for it. The Blue Dragon demo sucked imo, so the game is a no go for me coupled with the lackluster reviews.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Dynasty Warriors Gundam? Please tell me that's a crossover.[/quote]
Horrid name choice I know. It's a Gundam game with the gameplay of Dynasty Warriors. It has nothing to do with ancient China.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Dynasty Warriors Gundam? Please tell me that's a crossover.
[/QUOTE]
DW Warriors GUNDAM happens to be one of the greatest games this year. IMO, should have just been called Gundam Warriors here.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']DW Warriors GUNDAM happens to be one of the greatest games this year. IMO, should have just been called Gundam Warriors here.[/QUOTE]



but it's the same game with robot models instead of whatever they usually have...
 
DW Gundam felt insanely unpolished when I played it. Probably the most mediocre game I've tried all year. The enemies just... didn't do anything.
 
[quote name='Apossum']but it's the same game with robot models instead of whatever they usually have...[/QUOTE]
Exactly why it'll be an awesome game. It's my second most wanted game this year after Mass Effect. My 3rd most wanted is Warriors Orochi, the Dynasty/Samurai Warriors crossover.
 
I can't say I'm surprised about Lair. Dragon riding videogames in the past haven't been AAA titles. I am surprised about the Guitar Hero Rock the 80's score. I guess they messed up with the song selection to garner such a low score. But yeah, EGM weren't holding back any on their bad scores this month.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']wow, egm was in a bad mood i guess, those are some pretty low scores for games i would have expected higher scores from.[/QUOTE]
EGM is always in a bad mood. These aren't low scores, these are average EGM scores. Plus they have their whole "we use the entire 10 point scale" thing which makes 5's average, whereas your IGN's or your Gamespots would give a 7.5 to an "average" game.
 
DW: Gundam (demo) is godawful.

Blue Dragon (demo) was boring and I didn't care for character art or clumsy menus.

Lair sounds like it's turning out pretty mediocre.

Persona 3 is the new hotness.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']fuck, Lair sucks. Damn.[/QUOTE]


How? Based on what EGM says?

Those guys lost credibility a long, long time ago. They have no clue and cannot be trusted with a review. Just look at the APF 2K8 scores, for the greatest playing football game ever released! Phooey. Wait on Lair some more.
 
Who the hell didn't see the Lair scores coming? Not only did Sony completly ignore it at E3, when they were hurting to show off PS3 exclusives, but nearly every preview I ever read forshadowed that it was going to be crap. when a preview has the phrase "________ is bad, but hopefully it'll get fixed in time for retail / developer promises to fix it by release" chances are very good that the game will be mediocre.

However, I'm not yet ready to write it off altogether. Part of me still wants Lair to be the awesome PS3 exclusive it was supposed to be. Guess I really am turning into a PS3 fan-boy :lol:
 
[quote name='Mook_Dawg']How? Based on what EGM says?

Those guys lost credibility a long, long time ago. They have no clue and cannot be trusted with a review. Just look at the APF 2K8 scores, for the greatest playing football game ever released! Phooey. Wait on Lair some more.[/QUOTE]

I don't see why rating a good game with a good score is untrustworthy, whether it be a football game or not.
 
[quote name='whitereflection']I don't see why rating a good game with a good score is untrustworthy, whether it be a football game or not.[/QUOTE]


pretty much everyone hates every gaming outlet because they didn't rate their favorite game the way they wanted. changes depending on who you ask.
 
[quote name='asianxcore']Still buying Lair and Blue Dragon.[/QUOTE]

I agree with the first game. I plan on buying LAIR to give me something other than playing Resistance.
 
Wow another patented "cheapassgamer rip on PS3" thread. Seriously guys since when is EGM the fucking king of reviews? There has been plenty of games I am sure we've all enjoyed and EGM reviewed terribly.

They gave Lair the same scores, infact they gave better scores to Dynasty Warriors Gundam. If that doesn't distort their reputation as actual legitimate reviewers than I dont know what does.

And for CoffeeEdge, that is a OLD build picture. The fire is an obvious old particle effect and the clouds in the background was Volumetric clouds you dumb dick.

This is just another example of how you fucking fanboy fucks will take anything negative and spin it as the PS3 is doomed. Tie a rope around your neck and run off a skyscraper.
 
[quote name='Maynard']Wow another patented "cheapassgamer rip on PS3" thread. Seriously guys since when is EGM the fucking king of reviews? There has been plenty of games I am sure we've all enjoyed and EGM reviewed terribly.

They gave Lair the same scores, infact they gave better scores to Dynasty Warriors Gundam. If that doesn't distort their reputation as actual legitimate reviewers than I dont know what does.

And for CoffeeEdge, that is a OLD build picture. The fire is an obvious old particle effect and the clouds in the background was Volumetric clouds you dumb dick.

This is just another example of how you fucking fanboy fucks will take anything negative and spin it as the PS3 is doomed. Tie a rope around your neck and run off a skyscraper.[/QUOTE]


someone has a sandy vagina...
 
[quote name='Maynard']
They gave Lair the same scores, infact they gave better scores to Dynasty Warriors Gundam. If that doesn't distort their reputation as actual legitimate reviewers than I dont know what does.

.[/quote]

Since you have played both of them you know that Lair is 100 times better, right? :roll:

As for EGM not being reputable reviewers, maybe it's just me because I tend to not be able to get into ANY sort of game unless it is really good, but I normally agree with most of their scores. Meaning, the 5s, 6s, and 7s I normally am not going to be able to get into because they are just average.

I for one am glad they are tough on the games, isn't that their job? To help us weed out the average games from the good ones?
 
I trust egm.. They had nothing but high hopes for this game going into it. People just like to discredit reviews that don't fit their ideas. Gotta respect egm for sticking to their opinions on such a highly praised game. They gave similar scores to Factor 5's last game, if I recall.

I'm more upset about Blue Dragon, myself. Have no plans on playing Persona 3.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']I knew it. I fucking KNEW Lair was a piece of shit. I said it a million times before, it looks like a generic piece of shit with awful graphics and gameplay. Drakengard was crap, too, why would moving it to the PS3 and a Western developer fix that?

God, I hope the other reviews and public reaction is as bad. It's a tentpole PS3 game, and I called it as a piece of shit. Awesome.[/quote]

ignore +1
 
[quote name='jer7583']People just like to discredit reviews that don't fit their ideas.[/QUOTE]

That's not limited to any single platform or time period, of course.

Now, I both agree and disagree with this statement. I'll rely on reviews (plural, and never singular - one review by itself indicates nothing IMO) before buying games. Reviews don't impact whether or not I like a game, typically.

So, before the fact (before playing a game), a review can help me decide on buying a game early, or if I can wait. The reviews (and general gamer consensus, also) on Enchanted Arms have made me pass on it, even though it is $20.

After a game has come out, reviews are meaningless to me; gamers' opinions are far more important in buying a game.

Ultimately, there are several things going on here:

1) PS3 haters (pardon the phrase) want to use this to act as if the PS3 is still DOA (and much like Mark Twain at the time, the rumors of its death have been vastly exaggerated) - a high profile and exclusive game isn't panning out to be what it was expected to be.

2) PS3 owners/defenders are genuinely afraid that this will keep people away from adopting the PS3, as it reinforces the "OMG PS3 HAZ NOE GAMESZ!!!" stereotype. With Warhawk coming out two weeks after Lair, I don't see much cause for concern with regards to my PS3 actually being used. That's not the point, however; PS3 owners were (strangely) trying to argue, at the same time, that (1) PS3 has great games already, and that (2) Lair would finally be a great game for the system (very incompatible arguments, to be sure). So, PS3 owners are trying to avoid a self-fulfilling prophecy by assuring others that Lair, and the PS3 as a result, are going to be just fine

3) Gamers are, like music or movie aficionados, putting too much stock into the numerically quantified version of some "expert" opinion (the review). Just like the Twilight Princess debacle mentioned earlier :)lol:), gamers make the mistake of thinking that these numbers are not arbitrarily given (within reason), and that they are somewhat meaningful and objective. Of course they aren't. If Gamespot says Twilight Princess is an 8.8, and you think it's a 10, then bully for you; you surely felt like you got your money's worth, then. If they say something is amazing and out of this world, and rate it a 9, but you hate it, you aren't necessarily wrong. You just don't agree with the review. It's not uncommon, and it doesn't signal the end of the universe.

PS3 will be just fine, Lair may turn out to be just fine (after all, it's really whether or not you as a gamer enjoy it - even, I regret to claim, Superman 64). The only thing that I'm not sure will be fine is CoffeeEdge; I think that he's suffered some severe personal trauma lately, as that would be the only justification for every post of his being a tantrum. I hope we can agree on that much.
 
The EGM guys aren't stupid. They know the message that a 5.5 score communicates to people who pay attention to reviews. That message is that lair does not matter and can be overlooked. They would not send that message without good reason.

Factor 5 is the problem here, folks, not the PS3 or Sony or EGM. Fool me once (and they did, with Rogue Squadron 3) shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Anyone who didn't approach lair with at least a little cautious optimism was fooling themselves. You can't have two big name expensive projects be rejected in a row and expect to still matter.

Of course, these could be fake, and in that case, EGM would be sending an entirely different message about the game.
 
Thanks for the post Apossum. I'm was actually intrested in a few games this month. And I'm glad to see P3 getting good reviews, and not just from EGM but everyone seems to love it, (unlike Blue Dragon.) I'm very sure I wont be disapointed and for once in a blue moon I'll be buying it brand new.

I was kinda looking forward to DW: Gundam but after hearing their will be no XBL, I think I'll pass. Beat em' ups like that really need to be online, their's no reason why it shouldn't.

Kinda expected Guitar Hero to get mediocore reviews. Until it drops to around $30, I'm not touching it.
 
Well, got the September issue and can confirm that the scores are real. The October cover story is on Silent Hill 5 & Silent Hill Origins.

As for Rumor Mill, here's what is mentioned:

- Bionic Commando might be getting a full console remake(not the PSN port like rumored).

- Level 5 is working on 4 new RPGs and a few of them are for the PSP & DS.

- Square Enix is taking their other big franchise, Dragon Quest, and giving it the Final Fantasy remake spin. The first one will be Dragon Quest IV & it'll be remade on the DS.

- Microsoft is putting the best parts they have into the Elite bundle.

- EA is working on another Def Jam because they feel Icon needed some work.

- IO Interactive(Hitman, Freedom Fighters) is working on a new franchise for kids.

- The next 007 game(being published by Activision) will use the Call of Duty 4 engine.

Mods, you can add the Rumor Mill stuff to the OP, if you want. That way everything for the mag is in the OP.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']God, I hope the other reviews and public reaction is as bad. It's a tentpole PS3 game, and I called it as a piece of shit. Awesome.[/QUOTE]

Everything you needed to know right there. He hopes a game is bad just because he wants the console to fail (and/or because he predicted it and wants validation).

Why would you ever want any game to be shitty? The more good games there are, the better off everyone is as a whole. I don't own a 360 (or any new-gen console) but I don't want any of its games to be bad. Geez.
 
Also, GH 80s probably got lower scores because it's pretty much GH2 with new songs, and only 30 songs at that. I'm still really enjoying it though.
 
[quote name='seanr1221']First, it's pointless for anyone to listen to Coffee Edge. The guy bitches more then a tween PMSing.[/QUOTE]

Agreed that is why he is on my ignore list. ;)
 
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