Fans boycotting Left4Dead 2

But Tsu, here's the difference. Half-Life 2: Ep1 was $20 at release. L4D is 2.5 times that. But I'll give you that Episode one was one of Valve's weaker titles.

Episode 2 on the other hand is a whole different story. Alone it was either 20 or 30 (10 with the Orange Box) I can't remember. However, it overhauled the source engine with motion blur, soft particles, dynamic lighting, the third iteration of their face modeler, and one hell of a single player experience.
 
I posted this on the 360 board:

Even if Valve continued to support L4D1, all the attention will be on L4D2. The simple fact that it's a sequel means it's better than the first one (weather effects, more weapons, new SI, new game mode), and who wants to play an inferior, older game? Yes it may still retain the hardcore community ala CS 1.6/CoD2/etc., but L4D is not a "hard" game by any means (it's really random), and when you only have expert players on L4D1, that drives away new players.

So unless you love the original four or want to spend a lot of time with mods, then yes L4D1 will continue to thrive. Otherwise, everyone's jumping to L4D2 come November.
 
[quote name='Lone_Prodigy']I posted this on the 360 board:

Even if Valve continued to support L4D1, all the attention will be on L4D2. The simple fact that it's a sequel means it's better than the first one (weather effects, more weapons, new SI, new game mode), and who wants to play an inferior, older game? Yes it may still retain the hardcore community ala CS 1.6/CoD2/etc., but L4D is not a "hard" game by any means (it's really random), and when you only have expert players on L4D1, that drives away new players.

So unless you love the original four or want to spend a lot of time with mods, then yes L4D1 will continue to thrive. Otherwise, everyone's jumping to L4D2 come November.[/QUOTE]


I think what we got here is a seperation of PC vs Console.

the above post references CS and COD2... while I think the rest of the crowd is mainly bitching on the Console side of things.

I think if they are really throwing that much into it, L4D2 will be better than L4D, thus we'd WANT to go that way anyways.

Again sucks for everyone that didn't get it cheap... but hey... you obviously justified the payment.

L4D is a new IP and should be treated differently, not comparing it to TF2.

I think we can look at UT04 as a great example of everlasting, even now it's trumping UT3 which has been re-released.

Why? because of the home user created content, by what? Epics/Atari's SDK that's easy to create maps.

I think if we can get an SDK, that works on both console and PC, then alot of the bitching will end.

Afterall, I think of L4D as Map/Users/AI Director... that's it. Otherwise it's just a FPS.
 
[quote name='xycury']Again sucks for everyone that didn't get it cheap... but hey... you obviously justified the payment.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, I'm laughing at the people paying for the Game of the Year editions. You're actually paying $10 more for what's basically free DLC with the normal versions.

Regular L4D on PC - $29.99
Regular L4D on 360 - $49.99

GotY L4D on PC - $39.99
GotY L4D on 360 - $59.99

Seriously, the only things in the GotY editions that aren't in the regular ones are all of the updated gameplay and Survival mode; all of which can easily be obtained by patching and downloading.
 
Reality's Fringe;5942177]So let's recap: Valve takes a long time to produce games said:
Topic should have been closed right after that. I never really got into L4D, but damn, I know people have sunk a ton of time into it. That should be the end of the discussion. They released a game that kept people entertained for a long, long time, but now the "fans" (my ass) want the sequel to be free? Go fuck yourself.
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[quote name='guinaevere']If it gives you motion sickness and you can't play it, why would you be interested in sequals?[/QUOTE]

Was referring other Valve follow ups or sequels in general.
 
Bunch of crybabies.

I'll be playing the updated L4D, enjoying it while the " whinny fans" are sitting there crying about it. :p

Deals are always online, it'll be $40 on the net somewhere, and that's worth it for me.
 
I'll be playing the original. I'll get the second one when it's cheap. It's not worth full price to me.
 
[quote name='xycury']I think what we got here is a seperation of PC vs Console.[/QUOTE]

This is the issue here. I'm willing to bet a large number of people okay with this change play it on the 360, where their no stranger to the yearly sequel. However, put on your PC hats for a moment. In the PC-World, this type of stuff has never flown. For smaller additions (and even some big ones), we're quite accustomed to free content packs. For larger ones, that's what expansion packs were designed for. Entirely new games? That is just a ludicrous concept. Can anyone really name any other PC games that follow a new game after one year concept?

Now, I can understand why they need to do a Left 4 Dead 2 on the 360. With the filesize limits on both DLC and Patches, it would be near-impossible. On the PC-side of things, what's preventing them from doing limited content patches and/or an expansion pack? That's all I really want to know.
 
i remember the good old days when people would protest with their wallets and not with their mouths.
 
[quote name='kainzero']i remember the good old days when people would protest with their wallets and not with their mouths.[/QUOTE]

:applause:
 
It seems like a lot of people have misguided expectations.

I can understand the concerns over splitting the community, but I don't understand peoples expectation that Valve is somehow obligated to continue providing free content, or the implication that it was somehow part of the deal when they bought the first game. Purchase games at the price you feel is fair for the content available at the time of purchase (with obvious exceptions for games based on user generated content like Little Big Planet)
 
[quote name='xycury']They also released an SDK for TF2... have they done that for L4D?

Maps are free, not content specific, because of the SDK.

Class upgrades they could have charged for, but didn't, still, a minor upgrade.

And achivements?!? You gotta be friggin kidding....


I would guess that the AI Director is nothing then? I'd assume that Vavle had already tried to see if they could roll this out? couldn't so scraped it for L4D2?

Benefit of the doubt would be helpful.... it's not even out yet, nor near any release of notes by Vavle themselves.

I would cry foul for no SDK, but maybe it won't work for L4D2 which will be stupid.

Plus what's the argument here...people paid $50, didn't think they got $50 worth, bitch and moan because Valve is making another $50 product.

That little piggy went whaa whaa whaa all the way home.

Personally I wanted L4D, but waited till it dropped to $25, it was easly worth that, and the release of the rest of the campaings vs, and survival mode completes it, now only if they can get an SDK, we'd be all set.


Final Thought... or question then thought: Are we seeing this on the console side or PC? It might be the fact that there is a console side that they could be releasing a sequel. Far easier to incorporate new things to a solid medium. I don't own one so I will stop there, but maybe we'd see a different path for L4D2 if the console version did not exist.[/QUOTE]

They released the SDK last month - http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Authoring_Tools/SDK_(Left_4_Dead)

As for the argument about it being to soon or to much or a money grab, it is to late now, make your decision by purchasing or not purchasing, the game is coming either way.
 
I'm still going to buy it ... a new Left 4 Dead is a new Left 4 Dead. I can see why people are upset, but they're going to buy it anyway.
 
Pretty sad that once again gamers are the one making themselves look foolish, instead of praising Valve for making a great game and rewarding them by purchasing their games

they boycott them and make them think twice about their "fans"

sad man...stop complaining and buy the damn game OR don't simple
 
[quote name='Salamando3000'] Can anyone really name any other PC games that follow a new game after one year concept?[/QUOTE]
Call of Duty: World at War came out a year after Call of Duty 4. While not technically the same game, still a sequel to the CoD series that's on the PC. There's also Crysis being released in '07, with Crysis Warhead in '08, and this year we were shown Crysis 2.

[quote name='SuxoR']Pretty sad that once again gamers are the one making themselves look foolish, instead of praising Valve for making a great game and rewarding them by purchasing their games

they boycott them and make them think twice about their "fans"

sad man...stop complaining and buy the damn game OR don't simple[/QUOTE]
What's funny is how these people are bitching and moaning as if Valve has a history of this and pretend the company's never gone above and beyond for the fanbase before.
 
[quote name='xycury']I think what we got here is a seperation of PC vs Console.

the above post references CS and COD2... while I think the rest of the crowd is mainly bitching on the Console side of things.[/QUOTE] 17,000 users in a Steam community, you know, Valve's online distribution system for PC games, probably aren't all that concerned about the console side of things.


Again sucks for everyone that didn't get it cheap... but hey... you obviously justified the payment.
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Again, many people purchased the game, justifying it by Valve's past track record of game updates and the promises that were made of long-term support for Left 4 Dead.

L4D is a new IP and should be treated differently, not comparing it to TF2.
Click to expand...
TFC, the last game in the "series" came out 10 years ago and really doesn't have a ton in common with TF2. You can pretty much treat it as a new IP as well.

I think we can look at UT04 as a great example of everlasting, even now it's trumping UT3 which has been re-released.

Why? because of the home user created content, by what? Epics/Atari's SDK that's easy to create maps.
Click to expand...
UT2k4 is also the better game... UT3 received middling reviews, to say the least.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='kainzero']i remember the good old days when people would protest with their wallets and not with their mouths.[/quote]Kind of hard to do when the game isn't out yet, and with so many developers blaming lowered sales on piracy or the economy without actually stopping to think about it, it's good to let them know why you aren't buying their game. I know I'll be protesting with both my wallet and my mouth.
 
You forget that the internet is full of entitlement driven assholes. Next they will start an uproar that they should be able to download any copyrighted work off of the internet for free....oh wait.

Has Valve actually said they will stop supporting L4D1? Maybe they did or didn't, I'm actually asking.
I did enjoy the single player of L4D, so I'm looking forward to 2, and I do not regret the purchase at full price with or without multiplayer.

[quote name='msdmoney']It seems like a lot of people have misguided expectations.

I can understand the concerns over splitting the community, but I don't understand peoples expectation that Valve is somehow obligated to continue providing free content, or the implication that it was somehow part of the deal when they bought the first game. Purchase games at the price you feel is fair for the content available at the time of purchase (with obvious exceptions for games based on user generated content like Little Big Planet)[/QUOTE]
 
fuck them. I'm boycotting it because it's nots being called Left5Dead like the true sequel should be.

Also, it took like 8 or more years for TF2 to come out. Do you really want to wait that long in between games?
 
crying-baby-party-56800676.jpg
 
[quote name='Tsukento']Call of Duty: World at War came out a year after Call of Duty 4. While not technically the same game, still a sequel to the CoD series that's on the PC. There's also Crysis being released in '07, with Crysis Warhead in '08, and this year we were shown Crysis 2.

What's funny is how these people are bitching and moaning as if Valve has a history of this and pretend the company's never gone above and beyond for the fanbase before.[/QUOTE]

World at War and Call of Duty 4 were sequels, but each was done by a different development studio and had different people involved. Crysis Warhead, from everything I can find about it, retailed at launch for 30 bucks. So, while I'll yield that this concept isn't that ludicrous, I still maintain that yearly installments of games is something that is still fairly uncommon to PC gaming.

And for all those people who say people should shut up and protest by not buying, what kind of bend-over-and-take-it mentality is that? If we protest then, it will be too late to change how the game gets released. All that would do is cause them to ask "if you had such a problem with it before, why not bring it up?" We complain now, there's still a chance they can change something, or do something, or explain something, such that all who want to play the game don't have to protest.
 
Some people just like the idea of a good protest.

Maybe Valve will team up with Blizzard, that make everybody happy? You will get to play the sequel about the time you collect SS.
 
[quote name='kainzero']i remember the good old days when people would protest with their wallets and not with their mouths.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. If this game sells anywhere close to the estimated 2 million copies the first sold (just on XBox 360 alone, Valve would have a better idea of PC sales) then this boycott is just as pointless. Actually even if it gets over 200k sigs you have to factor in that some people are most likely angry PS3 owners who won't see this on their system at all.

I'm guessing for every 2-3 Modern Warfare 2s that are sold a L4D2 will be sold.

Maybe Valve will be nice and lower the price to $40 to tempt the naysayers.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']This is the issue here. I'm willing to bet a large number of people okay with this change play it on the 360, where their no stranger to the yearly sequel. However, put on your PC hats for a moment. In the PC-World, this type of stuff has never flown. For smaller additions (and even some big ones), we're quite accustomed to free content packs. For larger ones, that's what expansion packs were designed for. Entirely new games? That is just a ludicrous concept. Can anyone really name any other PC games that follow a new game after one year concept?

Now, I can understand why they need to do a Left 4 Dead 2 on the 360. With the filesize limits on both DLC and Patches, it would be near-impossible. On the PC-side of things, what's preventing them from doing limited content patches and/or an expansion pack? That's all I really want to know.[/QUOTE]

Totally agreed with this. I'm both a console and PC gamer but 80% PC, 20% 360 if not more on the PC side. But even though the 360 has limits what's stopping them from doing a L&tD or an oblivion type expansion for 20-30 and also releasing it in stores? Seemingly nothing as this still runs on what appears to be an unchanged Source Engine (4?)

Regardless, arguing this here is of no benefit because Valve won't see this and I'm obviously not going to change minds. I'm really surprised though, I wouldn't imagine CAGs of all people to accept this.
 
[quote name='Hydro2Oxide']I'm really surprised though, I wouldn't imagine CAGs of all people to accept this.[/QUOTE]
You're too focused on the principle rather than the bottom line.

At the end of the day, a CAG is interested in getting the content (ie. game, l4d 2) at a low price. This may be a few months down the line, when steam holds their 75%, or 50% off sale, but its pretty much a sure thing if you wait longer enough. All your complaining about the principle or having to pay full retail at launch means absolutely nothing, because we simply won't buy it until it becomes cheap.

That sends the exact same message as boycotting the game does, without going to the stupid extremes of saying, "I will not buy this game, period." It tells Valve that whatever their initial price is (assuming its near retail) is too high for the majority of customers.

Maybe I'm supporting Valve doing this sort of thing by buying it, even at a severely discounted price, but I don't give a shit. I'll be getting it anyway and getting it cheap.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']You're too focused on the principle rather than the bottom line.

At the end of the day, a CAG is interested in getting the content (ie. game, l4d 2) at a low price. This may be a few months down the line, when steam holds their 75%, or 50% off sale, but its pretty much a sure thing if you wait longer enough. All your complaining about the principle or having to pay full retail at launch means absolutely nothing, because we simply won't buy it until it becomes cheap.

That sends the exact same message as boycotting the game does, without going to the stupid extremes of saying, "I will not buy this game, period." It tells Valve that whatever their initial price is (assuming its near retail) is too high for the majority of customers.

Maybe I'm supporting Valve doing this sort of thing by buying it, even at a severely discounted price, but I don't give a shit. I'll be getting it anyway and getting it cheap.[/QUOTE]

Even Valve knows this too. They had a very deep dicussion and study on game pricing soon after L4D released.

I'd love to see the numbers of who bought what and when... that first time Amazon was selling it, I missed out, that was near Jan or so, but then they came out again on a Steam special for half off.

Quickly I did buy it then.

I think if Valve puts out as much effort as they say thay are in L4D2, then everyone needs to quit bitching and accept it that you're getting a sequel.
 
[quote name='TC']Was referring other Valve follow ups or sequels in general.[/QUOTE]Ah, thank you for clarifying.

[quote name='kainzero']i remember the good old days when people would protest with their wallets and not with their mouths.[/QUOTE]You mean, do something effective?!? What a silly notion.

[quote name='Sparta Omni'][/QUOTE]That picture made me laugh. =)
 
I was playing L4D1 last night. Hunter hitboxes were off, Boomer vomit wouldn't hit, and I discovered a new corner to camp in DA3 crescendo. Now I know every game at launch has its glitches and bugs (hence why I rarely ever buy a game at launch anymore), but a little part in the back of my mind wonders whether these problems would still exist had Valve fully committed itself to L4D1 rather than secretly start work on L4D2. The Survival pack was nice, but DA and DT really needed more tweaking to be balanced Versus maps, and Survival was pretty bugged at first.

Maybe we would already have the SDK. Maybe the game would be better balanced and more fun to play. Maybe the matchmaking would already be better. Who knows what L4D1 would be like if L4D2 wasn't already in the works. IMO it's this knowledge that has disappointed me.

On a slightly related note, I think it would be nice if the Charger was patched into L4D1.
 
I wouldn't expect a huge expansion for L4D without having to pay for it. I don't mind paying for a decent sized expansion that I know will be good since it's from Valve. What I don't want is a sequel to be released with content that would be better delivered in an expansion. Granted, we have not seen alot of what the new game is going to be like, but I'm sure most of it would be better off added on to the original. I mean, what new content did they actually add in that ONE mini-expansion? They made two maps playable in versus that should already have been playable in versus at launch. They added a new game mode that I don't play a whole lot, nor does anyone I know. And they added that Last Stand map which, let's be honest, is pretty small and probably didn't take that long to create. Don't get me wrong though, I will be buying Valve games for years. The games they release are ALWAYS good and they keep new content flowing to the community that supports them. They are the exact opposite of EA. EA games lose their playability in less than a year; in a few weeks for some. Valve on the other hand, releases games that go for YEARS due to the new content and just the fact that the games are fun. I don't agree with the decision to release a sequel to a game that hasn't run it's Valve-lengthed course yet and I think this boycott from the Steam Community will help keep Valve sharp.
 
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