Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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This is all academic to me, so I'm a bit unfocused here.

It certainly wouldve been better for everyone for the 360 and PS3 to have one SKU from the start. This is what our vision is, take it or leave it. That way there is no least common denominator effecting the people in the upper tiers. I do think many 360 owners probably appreciate having the option in retrospect to not have had to buy a HD-DVD player.

I just prefer to stay far behind the curve, so that any added costs for adding unnecessary features are kept to a minimum. I dont mind that the PS2 played DVDs. I didnt use the thing for that purpose, but the price point didnt leave me feeling like I was wasting very much money on functions I wouldnt use.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']But they have to pay for the ability whether they want it or not because its integrated into the main function of the system - Games.
[/QUOTE]

Yep. And that's why I went Wii60. I don't have interest in getting into HD movies until the format war is over and disc prices are MUCH closer to DVD prices (i.e. $15-20 at launch, $5-10 within a year in normal sales).

Thus I had no reason to pay the premium for a PS3. Of course, the fact that Sony's exclusive games don't excite me much was a driving factor as well. It's less of a factor now after the price drop, but now I have no need for a 3rd console given I have no where near the time to play everything that interests me on the two that I have!

But that was Sony's call. They were more interested in making Blu Ray the winner (which it looks more and more like is going to happen) rather than focus on winning the console war again.

I don't begrudge them for it. If the PS4 launches at a reasonable price and gets better exclusives on board, it may well find a place in my home.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']But they have to pay for the ability whether they want it or not because its integrated into the main function of the system - Games.[/QUOTE]

I guess everyone has there opinions, but I have to disagree.

You could argue the same for going from Playstation, a CD based system, to Playstation 2, a DVD based system.

The Playstation 3 is an upgrade from a Playstation 2. What did you expect them to use?

Was this also your opinion when Playstation 2 came out?

You do realize that the games are in Blu-ray also? Would you rather have them not include the feature to play Blu-ray movies also? Would you still have the same statement if there was not format war and it was either Blu-ray or HD DVD? And saying DVD was an option is ridiculous. DVD was broken from day one. Seriously 480x720 resolution? Wtf were they thinking? 9 Gigabytes is not what it used to be.

And like all technology items, they come down in price over time. If you can't afford it now, wait.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I just prefer to stay far behind the curve, so that any added costs for adding unnecessary features are kept to a minimum. I dont mind that the PS2 played DVDs. I didnt use the thing for that purpose, but the price point didnt leave me feeling like I was wasting very much money on functions I wouldnt use.[/QUOTE]

But movie playback and disc capacity are tied to the same technology. You may have not watched movies on your PS2, but you surely used it to play games on DVD (barring the unlikely scenario where all your PS2 games were on CD-ROM).

You don't have to use BD movie playback at all, and you'll still benefit from BD capacity on the PS3. Not to mention, anymore the price gap is more about perception than reality - but I'll surely concede that perception matters a great deal.

I can see your argument about trojan horses in computer technology; MSIE being integrated into Windows (XP? I forget) as a means of killing off Netscape is one example. Sony's rootkits on CDs are another (quite literally as well!). I don't see it, though, in the case of the Blu-Ray.

EDIT: Regrettably, the LCD argument you made about creating titles that work across different SKUs on the same platform may be what hinders BD to a degree - when multiplatform publishers want an "identical" experience across platforms as well, this means they'll cater to the LCD between platforms. It's not to say that BD is useless or irrelevant, than, but that the need to make a similar experience work on a DVD-ROM renders the BD capacity irrelevant.
 
[quote name='b3b0p']
And like all technology items, they come down in price over time. If you can't afford it now, wait.[/QUOTE]

Problem with game consoles is that they become obsolete. It's easy to wait for price drops on stand alone HD-DVD or Blu Ray players. They'll play all the movies when it falls into your price range, and they'll still be making movies for them.

If someone's waiting for the PS3 to hit $250 or something, the generation will probably be nearly over by then, and the PS4 right on the horizon.

So buy launching at $500-600 Sony made it so that many people just went with the cheaper competition so they could enjoy next gen competition at the peak of this gen, when games are coming out, lots of people are playing them online etc.
 
[quote name='b3b0p']I guess everyone has there opinions, but I have to disagree.

You could argue the same for going from Playstation, a CD based system, to Playstation 2, a DVD based system.

The Playstation 3 is an upgrade from a Playstation 2. What did you expect them to use?

Was this also your opinion when Playstation 2 came out?

You do realize that the games are in Blu-ray also? Would you rather have them not include the feature to play Blu-ray movies also? Would you still have the same statement if there was not format war and it was either Blu-ray or HD DVD? And saying DVD was an option is ridiculous. DVD was broken from day one. Seriously 480x720 resolution? Wtf were they thinking? 9 Gigabytes is not what it used to be.

And like all technology items, they come down in price over time. If you can't afford it now, wait.[/QUOTE]

He hates high def and has proclaimed that he will never own an HDTV. Yall are wasting your time arguing with him over high def media.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']He hates high def and has proclaimed that he will never own an HDTV. Yall are wasting your time arguing with him over high def media.[/QUOTE]

That is sad, but true. Hates online gaming as well. Thinks both are "ruining" gaming.

I'm surprised he has the internet in that rock he's living under.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']That is sad, but true. Hates online gaming as well. Thinks both are "ruining" gaming.

I'm surprised he has the internet in that rock he's living under.[/quote]

Nah, he's probably posting from a public library or such with free online access over computers.
 
[quote name='happy']How about instead of trojan horse we call it a feature which is what it is. Back when I had to pick between a ps2 and an xbox I picked a ps2 because I wouldn't need to buy that stupid remote to play dvds, and it has been my only dvd player (other than computers) since. When I pick between a 360 and ps3 this feature will again impact my decision. If the difference is $50 I will probably take the one with the BR player.

A trojan horse is sending a machine that will break over and overuntil people give in and buy the newer model because they're sick of sending it in and waiting.

The difference is between something useful you are aware of (a feature) and something you would never expect and is damaging (a trojan horse)[/QUOTE]

Well I guess you're lucky your PS2 still works . :lol:
 
[quote name='happy']Back when I had to pick between a ps2 and an xbox I picked a ps2 because I wouldn't need to buy that stupid remote to play dvds, and it has been my only dvd player (other than computers) since.[/quote]
You poor, poor man. I wouldn't wish the PS2 as a DVD player on ANYBODY. It's 100x worse than any $19 piece of shit I've ever seen. I had to use mine once on a business trip (with the remote I borrowed from a friend), and it made me want to kill infants.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0421082/companycredits

Looking at this, does production or distribution matter more? All the production companies seem relatively small-time, so there's little chance of seeing it on HDM. On the distribution front, the US has Weinstein at the helm, so there's a fraction of a fraction of a chance of it coming to HD DVD. Can someone more in the know clarify?[/quote]
They don't list Home Video rights, which is odd. But given that Weinstein has theatrical rights and nobody recognizable is listed in the production credits (that would have likely retained HV rights), I'm going to make a WAG that Weinstein will be doing the home video distribution. At the moment that would mean it's exclusive to SD DVD, but there's been talk of Weinstein joining the BDA, so we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Not related to the format war but:

Any of you guys seen Pan's Labyrinth? I have it DVR'd on my TV, but the few people I've talked to said it was an extremely good movie, and I'm wondering if it's one of those movies I should watch on Blu-ray. The one I have DVR'd is gonna be fullscreen (which I hate) and it'll be in SD (don't have a hi-def reciever). Not a huge deal if the movie isn't that visually impressive, but it seems like something that would benefit greatly from Hi-def.
 
I don't see it happening at all, I guess, then. Weinstein's been reluctant to release anything at all - and they have far more salable films to release in HDM (Kill Bill, Grindhouse, 1408 at far too frequently mentioned) than an arthouse biopic on Ian Curtis. Having them aboard the BDA (or HDG, really) is akin to having MGM on board. ;)

Shame, really, since we both really want to see this - but I have an aversion to buying SD DVDs anymore unless it's something like WWE wrestling, which was never filmed in HD to begin with (something about using TV cameras, I reckon).
 
ot.

so in my ongoing string of bad luck.. my westy crapped out on me today. It refuses to turn on now.

This tv has been pissing me off because of some contrast ratio prob. I have the bb warranty plan and im wondering what they will let me do. I really dont want the same tv anymore.
 
If you have the BB replacement plan, they'll basically let you "return" it for credit (what you paid) and let you "buy" something new with that "money".

I have a friend that did the same thing with a 17" monitor he'd bought that died. Returned it and got a 22" widescreen.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Not related to the format war but:

Any of you guys seen Pan's Labyrinth? I have it DVR'd on my TV, but the few people I've talked to said it was an extremely good movie, and I'm wondering if it's one of those movies I should watch on Blu-ray. The one I have DVR'd is gonna be fullscreen (which I hate) and it'll be in SD (don't have a hi-def reciever). Not a huge deal if the movie isn't that visually impressive, but it seems like something that would benefit greatly from Hi-def.[/quote]

IIRC, it did have some good, but low budget special effect with the mystical stuff....It was an ok movie imo while it will probably look good on a blu ray, I don't think I would spend money extra money on it if you have it on your dvr. That is just my opinion. Like I said, it was good and entertained me somewhat. Some of the people on this and other message boards highly overrated it IMO.
 
I think, on products over a certain dollar amount, they switch from PRP (what geko describes) to a "Product Service Plan" - meaning they only give you the time-of-purchase-price credit if it needs 4 repairs (!!!)

I had my Acquos, about a year ago, need repairs - and waited for 4 weeks before they told me they couldn't get a new LCD (probably just too costly, and they were dragging ass) - so I got it in one repair. But check to see if it's a PSP or PRP first.
 
[quote name='geko29']If you have the BB replacement plan, they'll basically let you "return" it for credit (what you paid) and let you "buy" something new with that "money".

I have a friend that did the same thing with a 17" monitor he'd bought that died. Returned it and got a 22" widescreen.[/quote]

I seriously hope that is the case..i dont want a "replacement" of the the same set.. im betting though they will try to force that on me though..

i am sooo pissed as this is really annoying..

i wonder if i should take the set back and wait for superbowl week? taking it to bb is a hassle on its own..

and also i wonder if they will give me a hard time since i bought online with instore pickup

EDIT- crap just noticed that the receipt says PSP...:(


should i email bb. based on my receipt i think its treating it like an online order
 
Call an agent and talk them through it. Worst case scenario, you'll have to schedule a service and drop it off...and wait...and wait...and wait. Good luck, I hope you get what you want.
 
CDs and DVDs were significantly more established by the time their playstation counterparts came along, and subsequently, did not raise the price of the machine high enough for the consumer to even notice.

While the gaming part is tied to the same technology, we saw from xbox1 and now with the Wii that you can use DVD tech for your games without the out of the box capability to play DVD movies. Its quite an extreme thing for them to do though, I have to admit. I wonder how much it saves them per machine.

I have no beef with BR being included in consoles when it is actually established and the prices have come down so that new LAUNCH consoles are priced like game consoles instead of high end consumer electronics.

I think the timing was poor to include them so early, and Microsoft seems to agree.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']CDs and DVDs were significantly more established by the time their playstation counterparts came along, and subsequently, did not raise the price of the machine high enough for the consumer to even notice.

While the gaming part is tied to the same technology, we saw from xbox1 and now with the Wii that you can use DVD tech for your games without the out of the box capability to play DVD movies. Its quite an extreme thing for them to do though, I have to admit. I wonder how much it saves them per machine.

I have no beef with BR being included in consoles when it is actually established and the prices have come down so that new LAUNCH consoles are priced like game consoles instead of high end consumer electronics.

I think the timing was poor to include them so early, and Microsoft seems to agree.[/quote]
You do realize that Sony has said time and time again that they want a 10 year life cycle with the PS3 and that they tried to futureproof is as much as possible? All of Sony's exclusive games ALREADY use more than 9gb and that's within the first year. Most of that is audio, but better audio is next-gen and therefore I am glad we are able to have it. If you think the Blu-ray isn't being used in games you are sorely mistaken as the higher res textures and higher res audio and everything takes up extra space. Yes, companies can make games fit on dvd 9 on the 360, but they have to make sacrificies which has been said many times by Multi-platform developers, including Ubisoft and Rockstar. And don't bring the Wii into this. Of course they can make the games fit on DVD-9, all of it's graphics are still 480p and they still use Dolby Pro-Logic II which take up considerably less space and what Last gen consoles were able to do.

And the PS2 was used by many people (including myself) as a DVD player and was seen as a pretty big feature back then as well.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Not related to the format war but:

Any of you guys seen Pan's Labyrinth? I have it DVR'd on my TV, but the few people I've talked to said it was an extremely good movie, and I'm wondering if it's one of those movies I should watch on Blu-ray. The one I have DVR'd is gonna be fullscreen (which I hate) and it'll be in SD (don't have a hi-def reciever). Not a huge deal if the movie isn't that visually impressive, but it seems like something that would benefit greatly from Hi-def.[/QUOTE]
I haven't seen the Blu-ray version but I'd recommend it if you have the opportunity. High-Def Digest gave it high marks on the video and it is a visually arresting movie. It's also one of the best movies of the decade, don't waste your time on a hacked up TV version.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']You do realize that Sony has said time and time again that they want a 10 year life cycle with the PS3 and that they tried to futureproof is as much as possible? All of Sony's exclusive games ALREADY use more than 9gb and that's within the first year. Most of that is audio, but better audio is next-gen and therefore I am glad we are able to have it. If you think the Blu-ray isn't being used in games you are sorely mistaken as the higher res textures and higher res audio and everything takes up extra space. Yes, companies can make games fit on dvd 9 on the 360, but they have to make sacrificies which has been said many times by Multi-platform developers, including Ubisoft and Rockstar. And don't bring the Wii into this. Of course they can make the games fit on DVD-9, all of it's graphics are still 480p and they still use Dolby Pro-Logic II which take up considerably less space and what Last gen consoles were able to do.

And the PS2 was used by many people (including myself) as a DVD player and was seen as a pretty big feature back then as well.[/quote]
I absolutely know about Sony and the 10 year strategy. Its something I ridicule them for a few times a week at least.

Sony doesnt decide what the lifespan of a console is. Neither does Nintendo or Microsoft. The market does.

Future proofing is a fictional concept. Theres no reason to believe it can extend the lifespan of a console beyond that of a normal generation.

Historically, its the exact OPPOSITE of this. The weaker of the competitors last the longest, while the most powerful dont.

I also absolutely recognize the benefits of BR to gaming. I've stated several times over my last few posts that its not relevant to my argument, which is that its being pushed on the consumer with a non-gaming agenda in mind, and its raising the price for those that just want to play games.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I absolutely know about Sony and the 10 year strategy. Its something I ridicule them for a few times a week at least.

Sony doesnt decide what the lifespan of a console is. Neither does Nintendo or Microsoft. The market does.

Future proofing is a fictional concept. Theres no reason to believe it can extend the lifespan of a console beyond that of a normal generation.

Historically, its the exact OPPOSITE of this. The weaker of the competitors last the longest, while the most powerful dont.

I also absolutely recognize the benefits of BR to gaming. I've stated several times over my last few posts that its not relevant to my argument, which is that its being pushed on the consumer with a non-gaming agenda in mind, and its raising the price for those that just want to play games.[/quote]
The weaker competitors last the longest? Last time i checked, the PSX and PS2 destroyed it's competition and lasted a lot longer. In fact, for most of the year the PS2 was the top selling console, out of ANY console. Did Sony put blu-ray in order to try to win the format war? You bet. Are there no benefits to gaming? No. Were people forced to support Blu-ray? Nope. Are people being forced to buy an overpriced console because of it? Not any more, the cost of a the blu-ray laser has substantially gone down and does not drive up the price that much anymore. Plus, considering how the 40gb is only 50$ more and you get a high def player, bigger hard drive, and wireless internet built in, I would definitaly say it's a great value.

Future proofing is a fictional concept? Say that to all the Xbox owners who want HDMI now who have to buy a new console in order to get it. Or ask blu-ray player owners who want more audio support. Ask that to PS2 PHat owners who couldn't play DL DVD's. Future proofing is a good concept and one I wish more companies would get involved in.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']The weaker competitors last the longest? Last time i checked, the PSX and PS2 destroyed it's competition and lasted a lot longer. In fact, for most of the year the PS2 was the top selling console, out of ANY console.[/QUOTE]

The PS2 was last generation's weakest console .

What did you think he meant by 'weak' ?
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Are people being forced to buy an overpriced console because of it? Not any more...[/QUOTE]

No one's ever forced to buy anything. But many were forced to pass on the PS3 for it's first year.

But I'm glad. If it had been $300-400 I probably would have bought one, and I'd be sorely disappointed in it as it has the fewest must play exclusive games for me of any of the three consoles.

It remains to be seen how many were like me--former Sony fans who will pass on them this gen as the high initial price drove them to the competition, and who have no plans on buying a PS3 since the competition has their gaming needs more than satisfied.
 
I got a great deal on a Sony BDP-S300 today. One was returned brand new to the best buy I work at, opened but never used (customer got it as a present and exchanged it for the 40gb PS3). I got it for $199.99 with the 5 free movies instore and 5 free movies by mail. Finally have a BD player for my bedroom now. :D
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']CDs and DVDs were significantly more established by the time their playstation counterparts came along, and subsequently, did not raise the price of the machine high enough for the consumer to even notice.

While the gaming part is tied to the same technology, we saw from xbox1 and now with the Wii that you can use DVD tech for your games without the out of the box capability to play DVD movies. Its quite an extreme thing for them to do though, I have to admit. I wonder how much it saves them per machine.

I have no beef with BR being included in consoles when it is actually established and the prices have come down so that new LAUNCH consoles are priced like game consoles instead of high end consumer electronics.

I think the timing was poor to include them so early, and Microsoft seems to agree.[/quote]

Really, because I can't recall CD's knocking cassette tapes out of existance in 94, for all purposes as the by far consumer mainstream audio playback format (they were around and by far the most established out of the different mediums being discussed here, but it wasnt some super stranglehold on the market, it was a continued shift from previous years).


However, DVD's were NOT by any means established in 2000. The adoption rate and issues early on were much worse for DVD than BR/HD-DVD. The PS2 did help push DVD as a format in all applications.


The stupid thing here was greed. Where as Sony and Phillips consented to DVD (it had a different name but whatever) which had the most backers, though thankfully as long as they had one thing put into it (better disc protection), Toshiba didn't want to relent with Blu-Ray. BR clearly was more technologically advanced, and clearly had much more manufacturer and studio support from the beginning. However Toshiba didn't want to relent the power they gained from DVD (along with the others in power they first wanted to compress HD data on a DVD disc to maintain there stranglehold on the market), and eventually thanks to some backing from Microsoft broke out on there own to attempt another format. And again when they all sat down, the biggest thing keeping them all apart from making concessions and going to one format was Microsoft. It's all closed door, behind the back deals, backstabbing, all over power and money.




In the end, this all happened mainly with two fingers to point at, one being Toshiba, the other being Microsoft. It's the truth, if you don't like it, then don't deal with it and live in world outside the realm of reality.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Historically, its the exact OPPOSITE of this.[/QUOTE]

Which is only true, except when it isn't (meaning it's irrelevant). BD is more technologically advanced than HD DVD, yet we all see where that's led. Moreover, it's temporally based, otherwise, VHS should have trounced DVD, no? And divx disks, when released in stores, died quite quickly compared with DVD, despite being cheaper and of lower quality all around (which, in your theory, should have assured them victory, no?

[quote name='Richlough']The PS2 was last generation's weakest console .

What did you think he meant by 'weak' ?[/QUOTE]

It certainly handled Splinter Cell far better than the GC did, that's for certain.

[quote name='H.Cornerstone']The weaker competitors last the longest? Last time i checked, the PSX and PS2 destroyed it's competition and lasted a lot longer.[/QUOTE]

The Xbox was far more advanced than the PS2, and the GC's memory limitations made it technically weaker than the PS2. It was in the middle as far as I'm concerned.

And my Guitar Hero 1 and 2 player PS2 fat (which is a working launch console, mind you) handled everything thrown at it perfectly fine, DL or not, thankyouverymuch.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
It certainly handled Splinter Cell far better than the GC did, that's for certain.


The Xbox was far more advanced than the PS2, and the GC's memory limitations made it technically weaker than the PS2. It was in the middle as far as I'm concerned.

And my Guitar Hero 1 and 2 player PS2 fat (which is a working launch console, mind you) handled everything thrown at it perfectly fine, DL or not, thankyouverymuch.[/QUOTE]

The GC's 24 MB vs PS2's 4 MB , are you sure ?

I remember reading that the GC Splinter Cell had some parts better than ther Xbox's .

[quote name='Gamespot']One of the most popular, most successful, and best looking games for Microsoft's Xbox is now on the GameCube, and in some respects it's better than the original.[/quote]

Plus the Gamecube could do hardware bump-mapping .

It was definitely in the middle but not evenly spaced between the other 2 .

No blue disc problems with your PS2 ? You are lucky if that's true .
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Can't have your cake and eat it too. Sony revised their hardware in order to accommodate a market that said "no thanks" to a $600 console. It dropped $200 in the first 12 months, and the most significant thing it lost is BC. Another version is $100 cheaper, and has well-functioning (from all reports) BC, plus 20GB HD space over the launch 60GB.

This is business, not wish granting. They responded to a market that insisted upon a lower pricepoint, and cut corners in order to drop that price so quickly (both in terms of percentage - 33% in one year - and in raw dollars - $200).

IMO, I doubt you'll be unhappy with the 80GB. 70%+ PS2 titles are BC with the system, which is a good bloody deal higher than any iteration of the 360. I'm not trying to start a PS3/360 debate, but many people who get bent out of shape over the BC of the 80GB seem to forget that most everybody has forgiven (or, more likely, entered into a passive stage of resigned acceptance) of the 360's BC efforts.

You can have a PS3 will all the bells and whistles. You can have a PS3 cheap. You can't have both. Why blame Sony for that?



Prove it. Look, I'm sure there are payouts/incentives of some sort, but any attempt to attach a specific number is pure conjecture.[/QUOTE]

Anyone got the Japanese list for bc on the 60 and 80 gig.?
 
[quote name='SuppaMan']The stupid thing here was greed. Where as Sony and Phillips consented to DVD (it had a different name but whatever) which had the most backers, though thankfully as long as they had one thing put into it (better disc protection), Toshiba didn't want to relent with Blu-Ray. BR clearly was more technologically advanced, and clearly had much more manufacturer and studio support from the beginning. However Toshiba didn't want to relent the power they gained from DVD (along with the others in power they first wanted to compress HD data on a DVD disc to maintain there stranglehold on the market), and eventually thanks to some backing from Microsoft broke out on there own to attempt another format. And again when they all sat down, the biggest thing keeping them all apart from making concessions and going to one format was Microsoft. It's all closed door, behind the back deals, backstabbing, all over power and money.

In the end, this all happened mainly with two fingers to point at, one being Toshiba, the other being Microsoft. It's the truth, if you don't like it, then don't deal with it and live in world outside the realm of reality.[/QUOTE]

Really, what fucking dream world are you living in?

What's your definition of technologically advanced? How much data it can hold?

Funny how you say it's Toshiba who wanted to compress HD data on a DVD disc when it was actually a Warner Bros lead group that was really pushing it.

And Microsoft was the thing keeping both them both apart? Last time I checked BDA could have easily voted to go with HDi (you know like their technical committee voted earlier) but they refused to select HDi unless Microsoft joined the BDA first (which they refused to get bullied into joining without their stuff getting picked first).

The real/main thing holding them back from settling was royalties and who was getting what. Both sides were greedy fuckers and wanted it all.

Really, there was "closed door, behind the back deals, backstabbing, all over power and money" on both sides but the largest percentage falls solely into Sony's camp.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Really, what fucking dream world are you living in?

What's your definition of technologically advanced? How much data it can hold?

Funny how you say it's Toshiba who wanted to compress HD data on a DVD disc when it was actually a Warner Bros lead group that was really pushing it.

And Microsoft was the thing keeping both them both apart? Last time I checked BDA could have easily voted to go with HDi (you know like their technical committee voted earlier) but they refused to select HDi unless Microsoft joined the BDA first (which they refused to get bullied into joining without their stuff getting picked first).

The real/main thing holding them back from settling was royalties and who was getting what. Both sides were greedy fuckers and wanted it all.

Really, there was "closed door, behind the back deals, backstabbing, all over power and money" on both sides but the largest percentage falls solely into Sony's camp.[/QUOTE]

Now that BR's won we'll never stop seeing Sony make programming nightmares of consoles in the vg industry. They'd do us all a favor by leaning or pulling their heads out of their asses. Why should I be surprised though? It's not like Sony is pretty much a sole vg company like Sega or Nintendo hence they repeat their stupid mistake twice.
 
I took "weaker" to mean the worst product that didn't have the most to offer. Not how much power it had inside.

And yes, technologically advanced means how much data it can hold, how much information can be transfered at once, better scratch protection, etc.

And yes, Suppaman, it was a dick move by Toshiba when Phillips and Sony consented with all odds against them last time to not do the same this time around if you ask me.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Really, what fucking dream world are you living in?

What's your definition of technologically advanced? How much data it can hold?

Funny how you say it's Toshiba who wanted to compress HD data on a DVD disc when it was actually a Warner Bros lead group that was really pushing it.

And Microsoft was the thing keeping both them both apart? Last time I checked BDA could have easily voted to go with HDi (you know like their technical committee voted earlier) but they refused to select HDi unless Microsoft joined the BDA first (which they refused to get bullied into joining without their stuff getting picked first).

The real/main thing holding them back from settling was royalties and who was getting what. Both sides were greedy fuckers and wanted it all.

Really, there was "closed door, behind the back deals, backstabbing, all over power and money" on both sides but the largest percentage falls solely into Sony's camp.[/QUOTE]

Didn't I call your dumbass out earlier? Stop trying to blame Sony when its clearly Toshiba and Microsoft that keeps this stupid war going.
 
[quote name='SuppaMan']However, DVD's were NOT by any means established in 2000. The adoption rate and issues early on were much worse for DVD than BR/HD-DVD. The PS2 did help push DVD as a format in all applications.[/quote]

Wrong on ALL counts. DVD was already the "most successful new CE product in history" LONG before the PS2 came out. At the PS2's launch, there were already 14 million DVD players in US homes. This despite the fact that, adjusted for inflation, players were still much more expensive than today's HD DVD and Blu-Ray players, and that the format war had barely been over for a year.

Additionally, software was already being distributed on DVDs (including games), and Microsoft had already announced a sunset on the CD versions of TechNet and MSDN. They went DVD-only in 2001.

Finally, I have no idea what "issues" you're referring to. My first player--a Pioneer DV-500 that I bought for $600 on launch day--still works to this day. In fact, it has some features (10-title resume, 50-title settings memory) I haven't seen on any players since, and had the best remote of any CE device I've ever owned to boot. The only problem it ever had was lip synching in the Matrix (which came out more than a year before the PS2 and was the first DVD to sell a million copies), which was an authoring issue with the disc that some players handled better than others. The only reason I got rid of it was because it (like most early players) didn't support DTS. I upgraded my entire setup (DVD player, Receiver, TV) in anticipation of Saving Private Ryan. More than a year before the PS2 came out. And THAT player still works perfectly with every disc it's ever gotten.
 
You guys think it's annoying arguing with some people here, try doing it with a clueless consumer. Last night at the bar, I got into an argument with this one guy (and he was still sober mind you) over HDM. He made some of the most stupid points I've heard yet.

- You need an HD tv that Blu-ray compatible

- Blu-ray isn't close to winning, consumers are going to buy HDdvd because of the name, who knows what a Blu-ray is.

- The only good thing Blu-ray did was get Sony movies on its side.

- If Blu-ray hypothetically does win, then a new format will just pop up and they will continue the high-def war.

- That new format will be made by Apple.

- It doesn't matter how many companies support one format exclusively.

Yes...it went on and on like that. When our neutral friend tells us to stop, he tells me I'm like arguing with a bull :roll: No sorry, I just hate when people say things with nothing to back them up.
 
[quote name='Richlough']The GC's 24 MB vs PS2's 4 MB , are you sure ?

I remember reading that the GC Splinter Cell had some parts better than ther Xbox's .[/quote]

I recall reading that some game levels were shortened/chopped up on the GC due to "technical limitations." Beats me.

No blue disc problems with your PS2 ? You are lucky if that's true .
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm not joking. Got it launch morning and it still has had zero problems. I'm sure many people had problems with their PS2 (DRE and the like), but I would imagine a far less likely person to meet on the street would be the one who has a working launch 360.

EDIT: Now, to be fair, I haven't really used it very much since November 2006 - only for Guitar Hero games and some Japanese imports (King of Colosseum II FTW!). In those cases, I run everything off the HDD, so the only time the disc was used in the past 13 months had been to boot the console and that's it.

[quote name='Sarang01']Now that BR's won we'll never stop seeing Sony make programming nightmares of consoles in the vg industry. They'd do us all a favor by leaning or pulling their heads out of their asses. Why should I be surprised though? It's not like Sony is pretty much a sole vg company like Sega or Nintendo hence they repeat their stupid mistake twice.[/QUOTE]

Animosity is a strange creature. I don't quite grasp a few things:
1) Why, if you want to pull the "I'm sick of unreliable hardware from Sony" card out, that you would instead purchase the on-the-damn-record-with-a-1-billion-dollar-replacement-program single most unreliable piece of hardware in video game history. Unreliable hardware is unreliable hardware, irrespective of who makes it.
2) Why "programming nightmares" matter to the gamer. What didn't come out on the PS2 because it was incredibly hard to program for? It's a red herring argument.

[quote name='seanr1221']You guys think it's annoying arguing with some people here, try doing it with a clueless consumer. Last night at the bar, I got into an argument with this one guy (and he was still sober mind you) over HDM. He made some of the most stupid points I've heard yet.

- You need an HD tv that Blu-ray compatible

- Blu-ray isn't close to winning, consumers are going to buy HDdvd because of the name, who knows what a Blu-ray is.

- The only good thing Blu-ray did was get Sony movies on its side.

- If Blu-ray hypothetically does win, then a new format will just pop up and they will continue the high-def war.

- That new format will be made by Apple.

- It doesn't matter how many companies support one format exclusively.

Yes...it went on and on like that. When our neutral friend tells us to stop, he tells me I'm like arguing with a bull :roll: No sorry, I just hate when people say things with nothing to back them up.[/QUOTE]

Not that I would prefer the above argument, but I experienced the single creepiest motherfuckin' bathroom attendant (and let's not fool ourselves: y'ever meet one that *wasn't* at least slightly creepy?) in my whole life. I'll spare you the details, but suffice to say, between him and hearing a house remix of "Welcome to the Jungle," I'm amazed I can still say I enjoyed myself last night.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
Not that I would prefer the above argument, but I experienced the single creepiest motherfuckin' bathroom attendant (and let's not fool ourselves: y'ever meet one that *wasn't* at least slightly creepy?) in my whole life. I'll spare you the details, but suffice to say, between him and hearing a house remix of "Welcome to the Jungle," I'm amazed I can still say I enjoyed myself last night.[/QUOTE]

:lol: That's much worse than what I had to deal with in the bathroom: A huge pile of vomit. Guess someone was upset about the Jaguars ;)

But anyway, during the argument I kept thinking....where the hell do people come up with these things. I mean seriously, a Blu-ray compatible HDtv?? What!?
 
[quote name='Ugamer_X']I haven't seen the Blu-ray version but I'd recommend it if you have the opportunity. High-Def Digest gave it high marks on the video and it is a visually arresting movie. It's also one of the best movies of the decade, don't waste your time on a hacked up TV version.[/quote]

Yea, I really want the bluray version.
 
I guess this as good of a place as any to ask.

Whats everyones feeling on ISF calibration of their HDTV sets? I got a guy from AVS forums that will be up my way in Feb, I am fairly confident that I want to get it done, but some outside AVS forums input would be nice.
 
its rear projection

and i'd want the bravia just because its a little thinner, but now that i think about it thats probably not a huge deal. plus no tax from vanns.

i saw the 60 inch in the sony style store and its not that wide, dunno why they're doing away with rear projection

i figure this TV should last me 3 years until those OLED TV's become cheaper
 
right well im just looking around in case i get the option of purchasing another tv. i dont want to cheap out anymore and i want a 120hz set

it would have to be at bestbuy instore so im looking at 46in samsungs and sony.

that 52in is actually priced less than the 46in xbr. so thats why i looked at it. it is probably too big for my bedroom anyways but the price stood out.


Sucks having this dead tv in my room, might have to bring out my old trinitron tube to atleast watch football in sd! ahh :(
 
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