Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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Make that June like Warner.

How does Gamespot get the scoop?

Variety reports that Universal Studios has ended its HD DVD exclusivity deal, though it will continue to only support the format until its current arrangement with Toshiba ends May 31. The report did not indicate whether Universal will exclusively support Sony's Blu-ray format after that date. Speaking to GameSpot, a Universal Studios representative confirmed that, for the time being, the studio will continue to support HD DVD, though they would not say whether Blu-ray support is also on the agenda.
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[quote name='geko29']As Myke and I predicted, Disney has started demanding advance returns on the POTC disc replacement program, due to thieving douches. At least one of whom (Markn951) is from this very forum.

Makes me sad panda. :([/quote]

Clarification please
 
what i don't understand is why would paramount even want to get out of their contract with HD DVD if they really got 150 million.

there's no way they'll make 150 million from blu ray sales in 18 months (supposed length of contract)

and instead they get to get hi def masters of the majority of their movies and some sales, probably not enough to cover the costs, but not lose a lot of money. Then they can just use the masters to make blu ray once the exclusivity is up and by then they'll be a lot more blu ray players in houses
 
[quote name='dallow']How does Gamespot get the scoop?[/QUOTE]

They've recently shown that they're industry friendly, I reckon.

[quote name='geko29']As Myke and I predicted, Disney has started demanding advance returns on the POTC disc replacement program, due to thieving douches. At least one of whom (Markn951) is from this very forumhttp://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/member.php?u=108808.

Makes me sad panda. :([/QUOTE]

Well, at least people won't be able to exploit it in the future. 'Twas inevitable.

[quote name='KingBroly']Clarification please[/QUOTE]

In the Blu-Ray of the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie, about 8 minutes of footage was misframed, so Commodore whats-his-name's head (or the better part of it) was cut off by the top of the screen. Disney took a few months to fix it, but they offered free discs if you filled out the information (more or less your name, address, and the SKU on the disc - which is identical on every one of them). With the proper info, then, you could get a free POTC disc sent to you. No case, and only one disc (all 3 movies are 2-disc sets, and Disney only mailed out the disc with the movie on it), but hey, a "free" BD if you want to scam it.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Clarification please[/quote] Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl has a framing problem. 7 minutes towards the beginning of the movie have actor's heads cut off.

Disney has re-framed, transferred, compressed, and printed new discs, and are offering free replacements.

When the program was first initiated (in November, I think), they simply required you to enter a number from the front of the disc, back of the disc, and the jacket, along with your shipping address, and they sent you a new disc in a few days.

Enter internet douchebags such as the one I linked in my previous post, taking advantage of Disney's good customer service, and ordering a "replacement" disc even though they don't own the title.

As a result, Disney is now sending out prepaid mailers to people who register for the replacement. They must package and send out their existing disc in the mailer, and upon receiving the bad disc, Disney will send out the good one. 1-2 weeks, I'd guess. Still pretty quick, but you're without your movie.

Bottom line, Disney has had to add an annoyance to their process and knock their customer service down a notch from exemplary to very very good because of a bunch of thieving fuckwads. But I guess that's how we reward companies for stepping up and doing the right thing. :roll:

Edit: looks like Myke beat me to it. :)
 
I've got to get a job as an analyst/op-ed writer.

I have no fuckin' IDEA how guys like Enderle, Michael Pachter, and (on the political side) Bill Kristol get things so *monumentally* fuckin' wrong on every occasion, and yet remain not just employed, but well employed. Shit, Kristol just became a columnist for the NY Times.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I've got to get a job as an analyst/op-ed writer.

I have no fuckin' IDEA how guys like Enderle, Michael Pachter, and (on the political side) Bill Kristol get things so *monumentally* fuckin' wrong on every occasion, and yet remain not just employed, but well employed. Shit, Kristol just became a columnist for the NY Times.[/QUOTE]

No shit. In that article above the author first says:

"What I was trying to point out was that the cost of the battle was too high for Sony and the company should not have entered it."

Well that seems like good advice given that their gamble seems to have paid off and they're on the eve of victory. Its a bit of a stretch on his part in attempting to avoid saying "I was wrong." Then again, it does get better...

"Second, Toshiba should have worked with Nintendo to ensure it could fulfill Wii demand, holding down PS3 sales."

I really have to doubt if he is being serious with his article at this point. I mean he's just flat out grasping at straws.
 
His writing reminds me of the scandal involving Armstrong Williams, when the US Dept. of Education paid him $241,000 to write glowing reviews of whatever dumbass policy it was.

It's the complete denial of reality of Enderle's. That people who couldn't find a Wii bought a PS3, that PS3's 4Q sales gap over HD DVD (which was the same bloody ratio it had been in all of 2007) was what helped WB decide, and that had Nintendo kept up demand, HD DVD could have won.

His inability to (1) blame MS or Toshiba for failing to make critical steps to ensure the success of HD DVD, combined with (2) his refusal to praise Sony and the BDA for doing what they did that helped make BD a success, as well as his (3) well-documented history of predicting the demise of Apple (more than once claiming the Zune would render the iPod to the dustbin) show, quite clearly, who signs his paychecks.

Just can't trust anyone anymore.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']His writing reminds me of the scandal involving Armstrong Williams, when the US Dept. of Education paid him $241,000 to write glowing reviews of whatever dumbass policy it was.

It's the complete denial of reality of Enderle's. That people who couldn't find a Wii bought a PS3, that PS3's 4Q sales gap over HD DVD (which was the same bloody ratio it had been in all of 2007) was what helped WB decide, and that had Nintendo kept up demand, HD DVD could have won.

His inability to (1) blame MS or Toshiba for failing to make critical steps to ensure the success of HD DVD, combined with (2) his refusal to praise Sony and the BDA for doing what they did that helped make BD a success, as well as his (3) well-documented history of predicting the demise of Apple (more than once claiming the Zune would render the iPod to the dustbin) show, quite clearly, who signs his paychecks.

Just can't trust anyone anymore.[/quote]

One might be able to make the argument when the 40gb PS3 came out as if someone couldn't find a Wii they might bite the bullet and buy the 150$ PS3. but paying twice as much or 350$ more? No way. And anyone who thought the Zune would do better than the Ipod is clearly an Idiot. Ipod has such a stranglehold on hte MP3 player market it's not even funny. Blu-ray won because instead of spending money on luring an exclusive studio over, they spent money on advertising and BOGO.
 
Disclaimer: I am NOT defending Enderlie. He's a tool.
[quote name='RedvsBlue']No shit. In that article above the author first says:

"What I was trying to point out was that the cost of the battle was too high for Sony and the company should not have entered it."

Well that seems like good advice given that their gamble seems to have paid off and they're on the eve of victory.[/quote] Eve of victory (in the format war), yes. However, it's too soon to tell if the cost was too high.

Sony has spent at least $3 Billion, sold off numerous profitible divisions and possibly saddled itself with last place in the console race this generation, all to win the format war. And for what? Total DVD royalties over the past 11 years add up to $6 Billion. Unless Blu-Ray COMPLETELY replaces SD DVD, which seems to me unlikely (some people just won't care), they'll be lucky to get back what they put in.

In terms of achieving the basic end result they set out to do, I guess you could say they've been successful. But it looks like it may wind up being a pyrrhic victory.
 
As a result of Nintendo’s inability to address demand PS3 ramped more strongly than it would and allowed Sony to maintain its lead in the 4th pushing Warner to Blu-Ray.
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There has to be like 34 missing premises in this argument.
 
I agree hiccupleftovers that your thread probably could have stayed unlocked, but since the format war will be over soon, they probably don't want tons of BR/HDDVD posts popping up.

I think a key factor in BR ultimately dominating HDDVD was promotion and pricing. I can remember tons of BR ads, both print and on tv, but hardly any HDDVD ads. In terms of pricing, despite HDDVD's far less expensive players, the discs themselves were not (combo discs anyone?) In addition, BR seemed to have far more special offers (B1G1, etc.) than HDDVD.

However, the real deciding factor was the movie studios. More studios simply felt BR was better and supported it exclusively. HDDVD never really could counter that initial handicap.

For me personally, I have an HDDVD player mainly for upconverting standard DVDs and Transformers. I'll probably buy a BR player when the prices come down (or a PS3 when the price comes down).
 
[quote name='bmOptimus']I agree hiccupleftovers that your thread probably could have stayed unlocked, but since the format war will be over soon, they probably don't want tons of BR/HDDVD posts popping up.

I think a key factor in BR ultimately dominating HDDVD was promotion and pricing. I can remember tons of BR ads, both print and on tv, but hardly any HDDVD ads. In terms of pricing, despite HDDVD's far less expensive players, the discs themselves were not (combo discs anyone?) In addition, BR seemed to have far more special offers (B1G1, etc.) than HDDVD.

However, the real deciding factor was the movie studios. More studios simply felt BR was better and supported it exclusively. HDDVD never really could counter that initial handicap.

For me personally, I have an HDDVD player mainly for upconverting standard DVDs and Transformers. I'll probably buy a BR player when the prices come down (or a PS3 when the price comes down).[/quote]
This was the type of post/discussion that I was after when I made that thread. I would PM a mod to reopen it, but Cheapy made an executive decision and I'm not sure that a mod could usurp or oppose his decision to have it locked.

Interesting point on the ad argument. I had never really thought about it from that end, but I hardly remember seeing any HDDVD ads as well. I do remember some HD ads on sites like CNET, little flash blurbs or banner ads, but nothing other than that. No commercials, and I can't seem to recall any magazine placements.

Right now I use the PS3 sometimes for BD if I rent or otherwise, but mostly just as an upconverter (since it rocks at that) and for Tekken DR. I have the 360 HD add-on and I would use that for upconverting since I mostly use my 360 anyhow, but I heard the upconverting on it isn't that good. Anybody have any confirmation on this? I'll probably just test it out.

Edit: Oh yeah, I can agree that the pricing structure and lack of deals at the onset of HD is what probably hurt it the most. The prices were certainly too high for movies, especially after we had gotten complacent to the $20 movie - with $25 being the max for double disc editions. I think I'm in the minority, but I really liked combo HD discs. It allowed me to buy or rent in HD, and then pass the disc to a friend to watch in their standard player.
 
What really sucks now is that I can't afford any form of a blu ray player. Going HD DVD allowed me to finally view HD movies at a reasonable price. Got the 360 extension off amazon back when it was dirt cheap.

I wouldnt mind going blu, but why can't sony put out a budget player? So many people tell others to go blu, but how can they when is so damn expensive?

I also liked the fact that there was competition between the two formats. It had to of helped drive prices down. Now sony will just become the ruler...

I have nothing against blu ray movies and the quality, its just that im soon going to be stuck with a useless hd dvd player that I bought because I was able to afford it. Now I must wait for price drops and that doesnt seem like its coming anytime soon...even more so with no competition...
 
[quote name='Supernova']Lots of nice games coming for ps3 this year!

WOOT![/quote]

Do you mean blurays..or are you purposely trying to go off topic?:roll:
 
[quote name='dallow']Anybody read Enderle's new column?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I love this quote:


Nintendo Caused Blu-Ray's Victory[/QUOTE]
Well, he's gotta find some unique angle to justify a story.

Personally, I think it had more to do with the half a billion dollars from the BDA and News Corp's refusal to go neutral. If BD does become the next VHS, it's only because of BD+. Sony used console brand loyalty to trojan horse their format & wooed studios w/ the promise of uncopyable movies. It was a good strategy, but I have my reservations as to how it will benefit the consumer in the long run (especially since they're looking at what benefits the media companies, themselves included, and not the consumer).

Sony/BMG didn't exactly gain my trust when they started putting rootkits on their music; and they made matters worse with their unapologetic attitude. They had to be sued just to admit they were at fault. That hostile attitude towards consumers is why I favored & still favor HD DVD. The more control of a market they gain the more arrogant their policies seem to become.
 
[quote name='Nelo Ice']^same i wish i could find a 60 gig ps3 for cheap
damn the high price and discontinuing 60 gigs[/QUOTE]

Can't have your cake and eat it too. Sony revised their hardware in order to accommodate a market that said "no thanks" to a $600 console. It dropped $200 in the first 12 months, and the most significant thing it lost is BC. Another version is $100 cheaper, and has well-functioning (from all reports) BC, plus 20GB HD space over the launch 60GB.

This is business, not wish granting. They responded to a market that insisted upon a lower pricepoint, and cut corners in order to drop that price so quickly (both in terms of percentage - 33% in one year - and in raw dollars - $200).

IMO, I doubt you'll be unhappy with the 80GB. 70%+ PS2 titles are BC with the system, which is a good bloody deal higher than any iteration of the 360. I'm not trying to start a PS3/360 debate, but many people who get bent out of shape over the BC of the 80GB seem to forget that most everybody has forgiven (or, more likely, entered into a passive stage of resigned acceptance) of the 360's BC efforts.

You can have a PS3 will all the bells and whistles. You can have a PS3 cheap. You can't have both. Why blame Sony for that?

[quote name='TURBO']I think it had more to do with the half a billion dollars[/QUOTE]

Prove it. Look, I'm sure there are payouts/incentives of some sort, but any attempt to attach a specific number is pure conjecture.
 
[quote name='dallow']Anybody read Enderle's new column?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I love this quote:


Nintendo Caused Blu-Ray's Victory[/quote]

Umm, is this guy actually retarded? Toshiba has nothing to do with Nintendo and Nintendo wanted it that way. They don't use DVD drives, they don't use DVD's. They are Wii Optical discs so Nintendo can stay in control over it to a) attempt to lessen piracy and b) not pay anything out to the DVD forum in an attempt to maximize profit.

Secondly, Nintendo isn't going to have Toshiba make the actual Wii console in factories (forget that that undertaking would be a huge switch, cost to much money and time to make it even remotely worthwhile).


Thirdly, Wii sales aren't going to stop sales of the PS3 or 360, because they really aren't stealing much of their crowd. If anything the Wii will just be the second console as most people buy two consoles now of days, and the very casual crowd that makes up the large market of the Wii will still probably purchase a PS3 or 360 when they hit around $100-150 for various reasons.



How does that person have a job?
 
[quote name='kevzik']What really sucks now is that I can't afford any form of a blu ray player. Going HD DVD allowed me to finally view HD movies at a reasonable price. Got the 360 extension off amazon back when it was dirt cheap.

I wouldnt mind going blu, but why can't sony put out a budget player? So many people tell others to go blu, but how can they when is so damn expensive?

I also liked the fact that there was competition between the two formats. It had to of helped drive prices down. Now sony will just become the ruler...

I have nothing against blu ray movies and the quality, its just that im soon going to be stuck with a useless hd dvd player that I bought because I was able to afford it. Now I must wait for price drops and that doesnt seem like its coming anytime soon...even more so with no competition...[/quote]Think about the total cost of ownership.

Sure your player was probably reasonably priced, but there were almost no deals on HD DVDs for 90% of 2007.

9 out of 10 of my movies were from BOGOs that I bought for 9.99 on average.
I think I paid less in the long run, depending on how many movies we own.

[quote name='myke']Prove it. Look, I'm sure there are payouts/incentives of some sort, but any attempt to attach a specific number is pure conjecture.
[/QUOTE]I like how he says it as if Toshiba are saints and offered nothing.
 
[quote name='geko29']Disclaimer: I am NOT defending Enderlie. He's a tool.
Eve of victory (in the format war), yes. However, it's too soon to tell if the cost was too high.

Sony has spent at least $3 Billion, sold off numerous profitible divisions and possibly saddled itself with last place in the console race this generation, all to win the format war. And for what? Total DVD royalties over the past 11 years add up to $6 Billion. Unless Blu-Ray COMPLETELY replaces SD DVD, which seems to me unlikely (some people just won't care), they'll be lucky to get back what they put in.

In terms of achieving the basic end result they set out to do, I guess you could say they've been successful. But it looks like it may wind up being a pyrrhic victory.[/QUOTE]

Are you talking DVD movie royalties or total DVD media royalties? Cause make no mistake, the high def movie format will very likely guide the video game industry to using it as their media standard for future consoles.
 
[quote name='dallow']I like how he says it as if Toshiba are saints and offered nothing.[/QUOTE]

There's also the "trojan horse" argument, as if I was too dense to see the giant Blu-Ray logo on the box, read about it before hand, or neglect to discover the Blu-Ray movie in the box.

Some people don't know that it's a BD player, but some people can't read a book, either.

Now, a genuine trojan horse would be if the PS3 was also like a fuckin' roomba or something (a foreman grill! HAW HAW!) that we didn't know about for well over a year before it was released. If you missed the news that the PS3 was a BD player, how in the world can you blame Sony? (fervent "I just want to be against Sony to be against Sony" bias notwithstanding.)

Trojan horse: finding out your husband or wife of six years is post-op transsexual.
Not trojan horse: finding out before you decide whether or not to go on a date with them.

Not the most apt analogy, but it gets the point across.
 
[quote name='SuppaMan']


come on sony, my ps3 can help try to cure cancer but it cant clean my room?[/QUOTE]


Well you could used that 500 dollars and hired a maid to clean your room for you instead of buying a video game system.


When the PS3 is credited for curing cancer or making first contact with alien life, I am chopping me balls off.
 
Main point is, finally Sony found a way to make their left and right hands work together. I rather by a 2 in 1 product rather than trying to buy a blu ray player and PS3. But for the first time, Sony is playing towards it stregths, how embarrassing that XBL had sony content (movies or videos) for sale and there were none on PSN. You know the PS3 is starting off a little bit like the PS2... I mean, PS2 had to compete in a format war... though its role wasn't as significant as PS3 role in the HD format war. Since the format war is over, the PS3 can start gaining ground in the console war.
 
[quote name='josemp81']All i Have to say is that im going to have alot of fun buying Cheap Ass HD DVD movies![/quote]

Good fucking point...sure we all may go blu ray eventually, but for now, bring on $5 hd dvds!
 
[quote name='mykevermin']There's also the "trojan horse" argument, as if I was too dense to see the giant Blu-Ray logo on the box, read about it before hand, or neglect to discover the Blu-Ray movie in the box.

Some people don't know that it's a BD player, but some people can't read a book, either.

Now, a genuine trojan horse would be if the PS3 was also like a fuckin' roomba or something (a foreman grill! HAW HAW!) that we didn't know about for well over a year before it was released. If you missed the news that the PS3 was a BD player, how in the world can you blame Sony? (fervent "I just want to be against Sony to be against Sony" bias notwithstanding.)

Trojan horse: finding out your husband or wife of six years is post-op transsexual.
Not trojan horse: finding out before you decide whether or not to go on a date with them.

Not the most apt analogy, but it gets the point across.[/quote]
In that case, there really wouldnt be such a thing as a trojan horse when it comes to consumer electronics. Products are designed to do a certain thing, and nothing else. The manufacturer wont ever discover that the machine they designed does something else entirely on top of the functions it was designed for.

The phrase when used in the industry doesnt necessarily imply complete covertness. It can be used whenever something new or foreign piggybacks on the design of a product for its own agenda outside of the product, regardless of if adds some value to the primary function of the base product or not.

This is different from simply having a proprietary format, if the limits of the format are just the one machine, because there is no alternative agenda being pushed.

If when Roombas were first introduced, they were built standard into all new.....lets say....standalone wastebaskets.

Even if its clearly marked on the box, the consumer of NEW standalone wastebaskets has no choice in the matter, and is having to participate in this agenda beyond the bounds of the singular product they want to buy. There is a standalone roomba sure, and its competing with the new Oreck Quantum model. Does the Roomba function make the wastebasket better? Some argue it that way, as it walks around and picks up things for you, but its also raises the floor price on wastebaskets just to try to edge out the Oreck in marketshare, something that the wastebasket consumer doesnt give a damn about.

Thats the invasion that the trojan horse concept is about, not that its being done without our knowledge.
 
Not that it matters anymore, but here's the weekly stats:

Week ended 1/6: 65/35
YTD: 65/35
SI: 62/38

Code: 
Top 10 by SKU:

1.  Resident Evil: Extinction                100
2.  War                            75.71
3.  Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End        65.59
4.  Resident Evil: The High-Definition Trilogy        52.29
5.  Shoot 'Em Up                    48.42
6.  Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix BR    43.89
7.  Ratatouille                        43.63
8.  The Bourne Ultimatum                41.72
9.  Spider-Man 3                    37.35
10. 300 BR                        36.70

xx. The Kingdom                        36.47
xx. Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire HD        26.18
xx. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban HD        24.81
xx. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets HD        23.95
xx. Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix HD    19.68
xx. 300 HD                        6.94

Top 10 by Title:

1.  Resident Evil: Extinction                100
2.  War                            75.71
3.  Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End        65.59
4.  Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix        63.57
5.  Blade Runner: Collector's Edition            52.43
6.  Resident Evil: The High-Definition Trilogy        52.29
7.  Shoot 'Em Up                    48.42
8.  300                            43.64
9.  Ratatouille                        43.63
10. The Bourne Ultimatum                41.72

xx. Spider-Man 3                    37.35


Top 5 Blu-Ray:

1.  Resident Evil: Extinction                100
2.  War                            75.71
3.  Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End        65.59
4.  Resident Evil: The High-Definition Trilogy        52.29
5.  Shoot 'Em Up                    48.42
6.  Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix        43.89
7.  Ratatouille                        43.63
8.  Spider-Man 3                    37.35
9.  300                            36.70

Top 5 HD DVD:

1.  The Bourne Ultimatum                100
2.  The Kingdom                        87.42
3.  Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire            62.77
4.  Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban        59.47
5.  Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets        57.40
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']In that case, there really wouldnt be such a thing as a trojan horse when it comes to consumer electronics. Products are designed to do a certain thing, and nothing else. The manufacturer wont ever discover that the machine they designed does something else entirely on top of the functions it was designed for.

The phrase when used in the industry doesnt necessarily imply complete covertness. It can be used whenever something new or foreign piggybacks on the design of a product for its own agenda outside of the product, regardless of if adds some value to the primary function of the base product or not.

This is different from simply having a proprietary format, if the limits of the format are just the one machine, because there is no alternative agenda being pushed.

If when Roombas were first introduced, they were built standard into all new.....lets say....standalone wastebaskets.

Even if its clearly marked on the box, the consumer of NEW standalone wastebaskets has no choice in the matter, and is having to participate in this agenda beyond the bounds of the singular product they want to buy. There is a standalone roomba sure, and its competing with the new Oreck Quantum model. Does the Roomba function make the wastebasket better? Some argue it that way, as it walks around and picks up things for you, but its also raises the floor price on wastebaskets just to try to edge out the Oreck in marketshare, something that the wastebasket consumer doesnt give a damn about.

Thats the invasion that the trojan horse concept is about, not that its being done without our knowledge.[/quote]

PS3 owners did have a choice in the matter. No one forced them to buy Blu-ray movies. They all chose to.
 
But they have to pay for the ability whether they want it or not because its integrated into the main function of the system - Games.

Whether it makes games better is irrelevant. The point is that them buying the PS3 hardware pushes the Bluray movie agenda, even if they never buy a single movie.

Let me draw a distinction. If the Wii could play DVDs, it is not a trojan horse for DVDs. Why? Because its an existing standard and not something that wants to become the next standard. DVD is no longer competing with anything such that you would quote Wii sales as DVD players to studios to push an agenda. There is no invasion because it is ubiquitous. When there is a BR in as many households as DVDs, and the transition is complete, the PS5's inclusion of a BR player IS NOT a trojan horse, but Microsoft's competing system, should it choose to try to supplant BR with some magical jesus drive, IS a trojan horse for it.

Timing and position makes the difference.

Let me draw an even more extreme work of fiction:

8 years into the 10 year cycle of the PS3, the takeover of every household of by Bluray is complete.

Someone then buys a PS3 in this fictional reality in 2015. THAT PS3 is not a trojan horse for Bluray. Hell, that guy probably already owns two other bluray playing devices. A standalone that he got for Christmas that was purchased on Black Friday from Walmart for $50, and an internal drive in his computer.

In this scenario the same hardware can both be and not be a Trojan horse.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']But they have to pay for the ability whether they want it or not because its integrated into the main function of the system - Games.

Whether it makes games better is irrelevant. The point is that them buying the PS3 hardware pushes the Bluray movie agenda, even if they never buy a single movie.

Let me draw a distinction. If the Wii could play DVDs, it is not a trojan horse for DVDs. Why? Because its an existing standard and not something that wants to become the next standard. DVD is no longer competing with anything such that you would quote Wii sales as DVD players to studios to push an agenda. There is no invasion because it is ubiquitous. When there is a BR in as many households as DVDs, and the transition is complete, the PS5's inclusion of a BR player IS NOT a trojan horse, but Microsoft's competing system, should it choose to try to supplant BR with some magical jesus drive, IS a trojan horse for it.

Timing and position makes the difference.

Let me draw an even more extreme work of fiction:

8 years into the 10 year cycle of the PS3, the takeover of every household of by Bluray is complete.

Someone then buys a PS3 in this fictional reality in 2015. THAT PS3 is not a trojan horse for Bluray. Hell, that guy probably already owns two other bluray playing devices. A standalone that he got for Christmas that was purchased on Black Friday from Walmart for $50, and an internal drive in his computer.

In this scenario the same hardware can both be and not be a Trojan horse.[/quote]

How about instead of trojan horse we call it a feature which is what it is. Back when I had to pick between a ps2 and an xbox I picked a ps2 because I wouldn't need to buy that stupid remote to play dvds, and it has been my only dvd player (other than computers) since. When I pick between a 360 and ps3 this feature will again impact my decision. If the difference is $50 I will probably take the one with the BR player.

A trojan horse is sending a machine that will break over and overuntil people give in and buy the newer model because they're sick of sending it in and waiting.

The difference is between something useful you are aware of (a feature) and something you would never expect and is damaging (a trojan horse)
 
looks like that sales ratio was going to be a lot worse if it wasn't for the amazon B1G1 with potter titles

only one HD in top 10 ouch

how did war sell so much
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']But they have to pay for the ability whether they want it or not because its integrated into the main function of the system - Games.

Whether it makes games better is irrelevant.[/QUOTE]

I was somewhat with you until that point. It the technology's impact on the game is irrelevant, then we can draw an infinite number of lines at which we can identify companies' consoles, and the technology that's "trojan horse'd" into our living rooms.

As far as I'm concerned, the logical extreme of this argument is that we should all still be playing the 2600 or homemade "Pong" machine, because any subsequent generation is just trojan horsing technology into our homes.

I don't buy that argument, of course, but once you get into a "you have to pay for ____ whether you want it or not," there are some interesting points to be made about that.

1) See what happens when you change that to "you don't have to pay for ____ if you don't want it," in the case of the 360 Core and the 40GB PS3. In the former, some folks lament the inability of their non-Core consoles to cache data in the HDD because of the need of software to work on the core. In the case of the PS3, well, (as typical), people were outraged, and began to suspect that all BC in future versions of the PS3 would be stricken. So offering consumers multiple tiers causes them to panic and speculate wildly. If you want a system where, if you don't want to pay for _____, you don't have to, buy a PC.
2) You give the consumer too little power. Looking at PS3 sales, they are clearly affected by the pricepoint of the system. If they really don't want a Blu-Ray player, then they don't have to buy one.
 
Theres definitely a value judgement happening when you evaluate a feature to be for good or ill. Thats going to vary from person to person.

You can have non-gaming features without pushing a side in a format war by implementing ubiquitous, established standards:

You can play CDs, DVDs, web surfing, for example.
 
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