Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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[quote name='rsigley']i can download and extract a 700 mb dvd rip in about 4 minutes if i download it off of newsgroups[/QUOTE]

That's about 3 minutes too long for me.

Plus, digital downloads are going to be full of DRM it will make current AACS, BD+ seem weak. They (the publishers, manufacturers, owners of the copyright, etc) might even be pushing for DIVX like model, where you have to pay to play or delete them selves after x number of hours or days. They will have much more control over the media then ever before.

With digital downloads, the consumers will lose a lot of the freedom they currently have with owning a physical copy. How are you going to bring that copy of whatever over to your friends house to play? BD+ may not be completely cracked now, but it will be. AACS already is.

Also, you internet speed is not typical of most. It will be a long time before middle America gets such speeds and with bandwidth caps starting to be considered an option for some providers digital downloads won't be taking off anytime soon.

Looking at the iTunes Store, it looks like most providers only want to sell at normal physical media price. With 720P 2.25 times less pixels, DRM, less control for the consumer, and no physical media, digital downloads are a rip off in more ways then one and being setup to fail from day 1.
 
[quote name='b3b0p']That's about 3 minutes too long for me.
[/QUOTE]

if i can download the entire movie in 4 minutes, i'm sure they'll be fine to stream instantly

every time i've rented a HD movie off of xbox live marketplace its ready to stream within a minute and i've never had to buffer

i have fios which is faster than most cable companies tho, i'm not sure how fast it is on cable
 
i found this pretty funny, saw it over at AVS. won't affect the majority of people, but its kind of a dick thing to do

before hd dvd died, fees were $0 to produce on blu ray

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=578999&Replies=5

now

"I got an email missive from Creative Planet today and it mentioned the license fees that would be required for creating Blu-Ray productions. $2500 licence fee for Industial and Non-Broadcast, $3000 One-time AACS license, and a $1585 per title fee."

probably won't be any smaller titles on blu ray for a while at those rates
 
[quote name='rsigley']

probably won't be any smaller titles on blu ray for a while at those rates[/QUOTE]



I highly doubt that. Actually, I'm looking forward to Artie Lange's Beer League coming in April. If you took a minute to check the release list at HDD you can easily see that there are an abundance of smaller titles coming very soon on Blu-ray.
 
[quote name='MadFlava']Digital downloads are way off, just to bittorrent a 700 MB DVD rip at a lower resolution still takes hours with a high speed internet connection. I can only imagine how much it would take to download a 25 Gig HD quality movie file. Let alone have the hard drive space to store several movies. Internet speeds need to increase dramatically for this to happen and by the time they do, BluRay will have run it's course.[/quote]

Like I said in another forum.

I believe that Digital Distribution will take over rentals. But I really doubt it will ever take over purchases.

For renting it's great! A new title comes out and you don't want to run to the store to rent it, so you just DL it, watch it. And if you liked it you can go out and purchase it, if you didn't then you didn't waste anything.

But as far as having your whole movie collection on one hard drive... well... I don't think that would be accepted.

Sorry but this is just a stupid comparison. Music downloads are faster. You can also pick the songs you like instead of having to pay full price just to get the 1 or 2 songs from an album.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Music downloads are successful because it makes it easier for you to carry it with you. Music is more of a personal experience then movies.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']I think many people will download digital media if given a convenient way to do it. look at Itunes napster(the original one) was out way before it and Itunes makes a good profit. The broad band rates will improve just like the adaption rate of HDTV is going to improve. I think most of the companies that have internet caps do so because of pressure from big media.[/quote]
Downloading a 5mb file is WAY WAY different than downloading a 5gb file. Plus, with Ipods and mp3 players it's convenient. There really is no convenient thing for downloading movies. And for Toshiba to say that is nothing but a cop out, they stopped supporting HD-DVD because retail and movie companies stopped supporting it. Simple as that.
 
[quote name='Chris in Cali']I highly doubt that. Actually, I'm looking forward to Artie Lange's Beer League coming in April. If you took a minute to check the release list at HDD you can easily see that there are an abundance of smaller titles coming very soon on Blu-ray.[/QUOTE]

yes these fees are new and those titles were announced before it, so checking the list at HDD is pointless
 
A35 at Amazon under TigerDirect's zShop for $169.99 new.

WTF will I see Japanese and Korean TV shows on Blu-Ray? I want "Cheer Dance", "Delightful Girl Choon Hyang" and "One Percent Of Anything" on it. Well whichever was shot on film or HD.
 
[quote name='rsigley']i found this pretty funny, saw it over at AVS. won't affect the majority of people, but its kind of a dick thing to do

before hd dvd died, fees were $0 to produce on blu ray

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=578999&Replies=5

now

"I got an email missive from Creative Planet today and it mentioned the license fees that would be required for creating Blu-Ray productions. $2500 licence fee for Industial and Non-Broadcast, $3000 One-time AACS license, and a $1585 per title fee."

probably won't be any smaller titles on blu ray for a while at those rates[/QUOTE]

hahahaha

I hope the next people to get a reality check is the studios. I can't wait to see what happens if Sony actually stops subsidizing disc replication now that they don't have to match HD-DVD's prices.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']hahahaha

I hope the next people to get a reality check is the studios. I can't wait to see what happens if Sony actually stops subsidizing disc replication now that they don't have to match HD-DVD's prices.[/QUOTE]

:cry:

I know. HDdvd was built for the people! Toshiba is not a business at all. :cry:
 
[quote name='Sporadic']hahahaha

I hope the next people to get a reality check is the studios. I can't wait to see what happens if Sony actually stops subsidizing disc replication now that they don't have to match HD-DVD's prices.[/QUOTE]

I hope the small studios still put out product on HD DVD. The problem might be finding a mastering tool or whatever to help them do it. Yeah Toshiba conceded but LG will still be making players with HD DVD support and they have those combo drives too.
I could see a bit of resurgence on HD DVD purchasing even after Toshiba's concession if some quality indie stuff hits it. I mean look at "The Lawless" which is HD DVD exclusive by virtue of cost I'm assuming. I wonder how long before that hits BR. I'd also like to see "Dark Remains" hit HD DVD or BR.
I'm also a Foreign films fan and haven't heard any big announcements from Palm, Magnolia or anyone else in regards to BR. I would love to pick up "Pulse" on HDM.
 
Did I say anything about prices (for the public) going up?

[quote name='Sporadic']hahahaha

I hope the next people to get a reality check is the studios. I can't wait to see what happens if Sony actually stops subsidizing disc replication now that they don't have to match HD-DVD's prices.[/QUOTE]

That means that I can't wait to see Sony/disc replication plants figure out "hold on, why are we eating the cost now that we are the only game in town and don't have to price match anybody/thing?" and pull back those subsidies which cut down the disc prices by half (if not more).

Studios can't put up the prices anymore ($27.95 is pretty much the max people will pay) and would be forced to eat up the extra cost.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Studios can't put up the prices anymore ($27.95 is pretty much the max people will pay) and would be forced to eat up the extra cost.[/quote]

Meh, if they can afford to churn out the garbage films most studios do they can afford this.

I don't think they're short of a few bucks.
 
[quote name='gokou36']Sorry but this is just a stupid comparison. Music downloads are faster. You can also pick the songs you like instead of having to pay full price just to get the 1 or 2 songs from an album.[/quote]
Sorry thats a stupid argument, as rsigley said he can start whatching his vids in one minute, and the point is you can watch somthing almost instantly rather than having to drive some where to buy or rent it.
Ya broadband speeds may not be great in the US yet, but if that dosen't improve in the next couple years, then there are much bigger problems than will media go digital or stay physical.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']Sorry thats a stupid argument, as rsigley said he can start whatching his vids in one minute, and the point is you can watch somthing almost instantly rather than having to drive some where to buy or rent it.
Ya broadband speeds may not be great in the US yet, but if that dosen't improve in the next couple years, then there are much bigger problems than will media go digital or stay physical.[/QUOTE]

How is it stupid compared to yours? I hate to tell you this but the whole world doesn't have FIOS like rsigley or broadband connection. Your comparison is stupid because you think digital download will take over physical media when it won't. The driving to rent or buy is also stupid because there's already a thing called On Demand and Pay Per View. Did those kill DVDs? No it didn't.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Did I say anything about prices (for the public) going up?[/QUOTE]

I was responding to Cornerstone's point. Christ - not everything is about you.

Also, Paramount's back in the Blu fold. Let's all cross our fingers and hope this means we'll see Sweeney Todd release at the same time or shortly after the HD DVD. I only have a fleeting interest in their other releases thus far (yes, including Transformers) - but ST is one I am clamoring for.
 
[quote name='rsigley']if i can download the entire movie in 4 minutes, i'm sure they'll be fine to stream instantly

every time i've rented a HD movie off of xbox live marketplace its ready to stream within a minute and i've never had to buffer

i have fios which is faster than most cable companies tho, i'm not sure how fast it is on cable[/QUOTE]

And how many times can you stream it for free? I doubt you can pay to stream it as many times as you want.
 
I think it's a universal basis in un-reality (both the unreality that HD DVD would win, and now, the unreality that DD will be the only way to get movies in several years).

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/technology/personaltech/21pogue.html?_r=1&8dpc&oref=slogin

A somewhat decent argument as to why it's years off. But don't tell the DD folks, because the internets will become 100% overhauled by next week, when we'll all have Xtream HD movie in our homes.

As the Times point out, with 50% of homes having broadband internet in the US, this just isn't a tenable argument in the least. That won't stop the HD DVD-cum-DD guys, which only furthers to reinforce my point in the first sentence in this point. ;)
 
[quote name='mykevermin']As the Times point out, with 50% of homes having broadband internet in the US, this just isn't a tenable argument in the least.[/quote]

Not to mention that "broadband" and "high-speed" are NOT interchangeable terms. I'd be willing to be the majority of the 50% that do have broadband access have less than 1Mbps. Lots of DSL and even many cable services have service in the 384-768kbps range.

Should only take a month or so to download a new release in HD....
 
Candidate for the most frightening newsbite of the entire format war:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23262620/

The article itself is pretty innocuous, if a bit alarmist. But the really scary part is:

There are good reasons to wait. Among them are the cost of the players, which range between $400 and $500 and are expected to remain at that level in the months ahead, said Rob Enderle, president of The Enderle Group research firm.
Click to expand...
That fucking douchebag has a RESEARCH FIRM?!?! :puke:
 
The point in the article (that Myke linked to) that makes most sense to me is that studio execs will screw DD before it even gets started by imposing stupid limits like only having a rental for 24 hours and other DRM nonsense.

The technology will come in time, but the attitude that "everyone is already stealing everything using the internet until we stop them" that is proliferated through some areas of the entertainment industry will be much more difficult to overcome.
 
[quote name='gokou36']How is it stupid compared to yours? I hate to tell you this but the whole world doesn't have FIOS like rsigley or broadband connection. Your comparison is stupid because you think digital download will take over physical media when it won't. The driving to rent or buy is also stupid because there's already a thing called On Demand and Pay Per View. Did those kill DVDs? No it didn't.[/quote]
very because it looks like you can't read. I never said it would kill physical media. Infact nothing has killed any physical media yet(although news paper are getting close). I was simply stating that there is a market. Ya I know the whole world dosn't have a connection like rsigley probably why I said as much, that doesn't mean there never going to get it and a it would be pathetic if a country like the US can't catch up in the next 5 years. Do I think physical media will be replaced, ya but soon enough to make much of a difference for blueray.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I was responding to Cornerstone's point. Christ - not everything is about you.

Also, Paramount's back in the Blu fold. Let's all cross our fingers and hope this means we'll see Sweeney Todd release at the same time or shortly after the HD DVD. I only have a fleeting interest in their other releases thus far (yes, including Transformers) - but ST is one I am clamoring for.[/QUOTE]

Personally I'd like to see previously released titles on Blu in Lossless, notably "Dreamgirls". I didn't buy EITHER version simply for that reason.
Regardless of the bitrate issue with "Shrek 3" I believe that could've had Lossless. Seriously using DTS-MA might easily have made it possible. Given the movies length there was obviously enough space on the disc to store it.
What else? Well "Face Off" is suppose to have it so I think I'll bag it. "Transformers" I'm think fuck no. I mean Optimus Prime saying "My bad.", wtf?! Here's an idea of what I want from Paramount/Dreamworks: "Anchorman: The Legend Of Ron Burgundy"(WITH extra movie), "Euro Trip", "Road Trip", "Milennium Actress", "Sabrina"(the old one) and Indy 1-3. Those are just the one's off the top of my head.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']very because it looks like you can't read. I never said it would kill physical media. Infact nothing has killed any physical media yet(although news paper are getting close). I was simply stating that there is a market. Ya I know the whole world dosn't have a connection like rsigley probably why I said as much, that doesn't mean there never going to get it and a it would be pathetic if a country like the US can't catch up in the next 5 years. Do I think physical media will be replaced, ya but soon enough to make much of a difference for blueray.[/QUOTE]

I don't need to because I know what you were implying and you just proved my point and contradicted yourself.
 
Sporadic, my point was now more companies will make blu-ray replication plants, which increases supply which decreases prices. and Sony isn't the only one who has a replication plant. Disney has one and there is another smaller company that has one in California that specifically makes them for indie companies and to be cheaper. And considering the fact now that Blu-ray diodes were shrunk so they are cheaper to produce and another company figured out how to make blu-ray's using organic die making them significantly cheaper to make and possible to upgrade a DVD plant to make them, I am not too worried about Blu-ray production prices going up significantly. And why would Sony start to increase the price as supply increases? That goes against every business theory ever. Blu-ray still has a long ways to go before anyone can get cocky.

And for those people who are saying DD will be the next greatest thing, try downloading a HD movie off of Xbox Live and tell me what you think of it. Because game demos that are 1gb take me 8+ hours.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Studios can't put up the prices anymore ($27.95 is pretty much the max people will pay) and would be forced to eat up the extra cost.[/quote]So what.
 
Even when DD comes into fruition, it will be small compared to the sales of physical media. Everyone totes the success of Itunes, but its just a small % of revenue compared to what physical CD's sales are (and Itunes has been around for how long?).
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Because game demos that are 1gb take me 8+ hours.[/quote]

Is that using a two tin cans and a piece of string connection ?

I kid, but 8 hours is crazy, I'm guessing that isn't broadband.
 
[quote name='geko29']That fucking douchebag has a RESEARCH FIRM?!?! :puke:[/QUOTE]

That's the media for you: Jack Thompson is an expert on video game violence, whatsername (the "pop psychologist" who is just a struggling and incomplete PhD student who brayed on FOX News about Mass Effect), and Rob Enderle is a credible research analyst.

The media can go for the gold cup of credibility-lacking analysts if they start to use Michael "Cover All the Bases" Pachter.

The loudest voices and most brazen personalities get air time - that's why we see Tucker Carlson on TV, and not Noam Chomsky or George Will.

[quote name='benjamouth']The point in the article (that Myke linked to) that makes most sense to me is that studio execs will screw DD before it even gets started by imposing stupid limits like only having a rental for 24 hours and other DRM nonsense.[/QUOTE]

The price by itself doesn't interest me on either iTunes or XBLM - but it wouldn't be so bad if the DRM weren't as restrictive as "this movie will self-destruct in 24 hours." As the article says, what would be the harm in 72 hours?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']That's the media for you: Jack Thompson is an expert on video game violence, whatsername (the "pop psychologist" who is just a struggling and incomplete PhD student who brayed on FOX News about Mass Effect), and Rob Enderle is a credible research analyst.

The media can go for the gold cup of credibility-lacking analysts if they start to use Michael "Cover All the Bases" Pachter.

The loudest voices and most brazen personalities get air time - that's why we see Tucker Carlson on TV, and not Noam Chomsky or George Will.



The price by itself doesn't interest me on either iTunes or XBLM - but it wouldn't be so bad if the DRM weren't as restrictive as "this movie will self-destruct in 24 hours." As the article says, what would be the harm in 72 hours?[/QUOTE]

Well I don't know if I'd feel comfortable knowing a Globalist like Chomsky got more airtime. He may want a World Government and I think it would be a terrible thing. You need to pay attention and see who the real disinfo agents are Myke. I suppose you might have heard of "Project Mockingbird"?
My issue is availability on XBLM. If there was a HD DVD or BR of Reincarnation I would buy it now after watching it on XBLM. I may have even bought it before watching it. As it stood on both formats there is a severe lack of foreign product on HDM over here and what you could import usually didn't have subs. is it that difficult to have subs for a film like "Pacchigi" that doesn't have a chance of getting over here and if so would still most likely hit a VERY small distributor. I mean "Shinobi" on HD DVD had no English subtitles but the DVD did? I don't understand why they aren't putting English subs in without a second thought like they do with DVD's. They seem to disregard regional rights otherwise or is this because BR has much less restrictive region coding?
 
[quote name='gokou36']I don't need to because I know what you were implying and you just proved my point and contradicted yourself.[/quote]

Obviously not and no. But as you seem to be addicted to being wrong and as logical as a chick on her period lets block eachother and save time. Here is a website you might want to check out www.starfall.com.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']Obviously not and no. But as you seem to be addicted to being wrong and as logical as a chick on her period lets block eachother and save time. Here is a website you might want to check out www.starfall.com.[/QUOTE]

Funny, i'm wrong because I proved you wrong and now you'll just take the easy route and block me right? Good decision though, that way you'll stop making a fool out of yourself.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Well I don't know if I'd feel comfortable knowing a Globalist like Chomsky got more airtime. He may want a World Government and I think it would be a terrible thing. You need to pay attention and see who the real disinfo agents are Myke. I suppose you might have heard of "Project Mockingbird"?[/QUOTE]

Take it to the vs thread, I was stating a fuckin' hypothetical.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']well...all remaning big studios went Blu...Paramount was the last...shall I stick a fork in this thread yet?[/quote]Do you think there should be a thread somewhere to just discuss HD movies/media?
 
[quote name='dallow']Do you think there should be a thread somewhere to just discuss HD movies/media?[/quote]

I think that we need a forum. I've asked CheapyD for it but nothing yet...If you want to create a thread go for it...I figured the Blu-Ray and HD DVD stickies on the PS3 and XBOX360 would suffice for now.
 
i think the problem with the ps3 thread is the guy who made it is banned so he can't update the OP or topic

i don't mind updating it weekly with new releases/deals unless someone else wants to do it
 
Was he perma-banned?

I can take over the BD thread if needed.
(oh wait, Rsigley might be better, let him do it)

You're right, I think the BD and HD DVD threads are enough.
 
i'm not sure if he's perma banned

but he hasn't been on since feb 11th and his thing above his avatar says banned

dunno what for, probably his signature where he was calling another member a fucking tool for accepting his apology
 
[quote name='rsigley']

dunno what for, probably his signature where he was calling another member a fucking tool for accepting his apology[/quote]

o yea.. that was funny... also a bit dickish ...
 
I think we should keep it open until the PORN Industry decides what to do. They must be upset right now that they weren't the behind the scenes force that helped choose a winner like they did in the DVD vs VHS war.
 
[quote name='dallow']Do you think there should be a thread somewhere to just discuss HD movies/media?[/QUOTE]

I also wouldn't mind having a list of HD imports that are still exclusive in terms of being out there that BR doesn't have yet. Basically we wait to update when this changes.
I'm thinking of "Renaissance" and "Brotherhood Of the Wolf" for one. Anyone want to list some others, preferably Lossless.
 
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