Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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[quote name='dallow']Well, glad it's a "large" niche dmaul.
Whatever that means.[/quote] I'd be ok with a large niche. It has a lot of benefits. First among them being the vast majority of the customer base would be people who actually care about movies. Ergo, video and audio quality are important, and there's little impetus to create foolscreen 16:9 pan & scan crops of scope content.

To put things into perspective, LaserDisc was a "medium" niche. It lasted 20 years, and had 41,000 movies available. Any changes to the format were all about improving the presentation, not pandering to the lowest common denominator. If something like that (albeit on a larger scale) is the future of HDM, I'm fine with it.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6525812.html?nid=3511

Aren't you a criminologist? Shouldn't you be the kind of person who hesitates to make claims in the absence of data? Well, if you aren't, you should be.[/quote]

Nice stats Myke, but wasn't Dmaul talking about disc sales, and you've quoted a bunch of numbers for hardware sales?

IMO until HD movies are the same price as DVD's, they're never going to be considered the "main stream format". That seems like common sense to me.

Unless someone has some stats on disc sale numbers that show HDM is making ground on DVD sales at the current price points.
 
[quote name='benjamouth']Unless someone has some stats on disc sale numbers that show HDM is making ground on DVD sales at the current price points.[/QUOTE]

DVD sales declined 3-5% in 2007, so unless BD/HD sold fewer discs in 2007 than 2006 (which we all know isn't true), then it's a logical necessity that they have gained ground. As for actual trends...that I can't help you with.
 
[quote name='dallow']
Well, glad it's a "large" niche dmaul.
Whatever that means.[/QUOTE]

Any thing that's not a major success in it's market I call niche. HDM is tiny compared to DVD.

Until it makes up a ton more ground I'll call it niche.

I think it will do well, but I don't think it will replace DVD. I'm pretty confident I'll be able to buy a plain DVD in 10 years if I wanted to. Just like I can still buy CDs 10 years later.

Though HDM will obviously do much better than SA-CDs or DVD-Audio did since those are both largely dead. HDM will likely have the market share lead sometime in the future, though the question is whether it will be Blu Ray or some kind of download service.

IMO whether BR is the one to take marketshare over DVD in the next decade depends on them getting their heads out of their asses and getting prices to DVD levels to bring in the people like myself who aren't willing to pay more for better A/V quality.

Price is the ultimate marketing tool.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6525812.html?nid=3511

Aren't you a criminologist? Shouldn't you be the kind of person who hesitates to make claims in the absence of data? Well, if you aren't, you should be.[/QUOTE]

I was talking software. The best selling DVD of 2007 outsold all high def movies combined, per an article I read.

Player sales are definitely picking up. Maybe that won't be the case next year, and I'll of course then have a different view of things.

Just calling it like I see it, as like I said, I really don't care about HDM one way or the other as I'm not a videophile. I'll keep buying DVDs as long as they're cheaper, when prices are comparble I'll take the plunge and start buying all new releases on Blu Ray and maybe up grade a handful of my favorites that are eye candy heavy and watched several times a year.

[quote name='mykevermin']DVD sales declined 3-5% in 2007, so unless BD/HD sold fewer discs in 2007 than 2006 (which we all know isn't true), then it's a logical necessity that they have gained ground. As for actual trends...that I can't help you with.[/QUOTE]

Like I said, they are gaining ground. But still got badly outsold in 2007 in terms of numbers of titles moved obviously given the huge number of DVD players in homes relative to HDM players.
 
Warner predicts HDM to be a billion dollar business this year, a major jump.





But seriously, if you don't even care about A/V quality, leave this thread.
That's the whole point of these movies.
 
[quote name='geko29']I'd be ok with a large niche. It has a lot of benefits. First among them being the vast majority of the customer base would be people who actually care about movies. Ergo, video and audio quality are important, and there's little impetus to create foolscreen 16:9 pan & scan crops of scope content.

To put things into perspective, LaserDisc was a "medium" niche. It lasted 20 years, and had 41,000 movies available. Any changes to the format were all about improving the presentation, not pandering to the lowest common denominator. If something like that (albeit on a larger scale) is the future of HDM, I'm fine with it.[/QUOTE]

Those are definitely true. Problem for me is that price is everything, and I take cheaper price with some lowest common denominator annoyances over paying a premium.

Though I'm starting to shift from that mattering as I'm really trying to not buy many movies anymore as I find I'm lucky if I watch 10-20 of my collection a year anymore as I tend to prefer watching something new from Netflix, or something on TV, rather than re-watching a movie I own.

So if that trend continues, then price becomes more moot if I move to a near total renting approach.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']


Just calling it like I see it, as like I said, I really don't care about HDM one way or the other as I'm not a videophile.



[/QUOTE]


Then why are you even in this thread?
 
[quote name='dallow']
But seriously, if you don't even care about A/V quality, leave this thread.
That's the whole point of these movies.[/QUOTE]

You misread. I care....to a degree. Just not enough to pay more than DVD prices.
I'm a film fan first, a/v enthusiast very, very distant second.

I read the thread to keep up on what studios are on which format (in the past anyway, seems all are BR or both now for the most part), price drops etc.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Then why are you even in this thread?[/QUOTE]

I meant I don't care about it in terms of having any investment or fanboy loyalty to it. i.e. I have no personal bias in whether it succeeds or fails.

They look great, and if it's clear it's going to be hear to stay and prices get in a range I like, I'll take the plunge.

I come in this thread for info to determine on how progress is going on these fronts, as I don't care enough to go to other sites to keep up on it vs. just checking this thread.
 
Alright, that's cool.
Feel free to keep checking the thread, however you shouldn't post.
We get that you're a cheap bastard and A/V quality isn't worth a premium. Stop beating us over the head with it.


I watched Taxi Driver last night on my 55" HDTV and and it damn nearly made me sick with all the blurry movement.
I want HDM.
 
I'll only jump in during discussions of the state of the HDM market, as that's my interest right now.

Would HDM help much with old movies or those with blurry movement? Seems like that's a flaw of the film and camera work. Kind of like how HD hasn't helped most people who get motion sickness from FPS games etc. People hoped they wouldn't get it with HD, but still do.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']IWould HDM help much with old movies or those with blurry movement? Seems like that's a flaw of the film and camera work.[/quote] It won't help with blurry movement, as that was captured on the film and can't be changed. Usually, it's intentional, like dallow said.

However, HD is HUGE in helping old movies look their best. Watching one of the classics like Casablanca, Robin Hood, or The Searchers in HD is almost a religious experience. It truly replicates the movie experience you would have gotten if you had seen these films in the grand old theatres they used to play in. For people born after 1940, this is the only chance we've ever had to see what these great films were meant to look like.
 
[quote name='dallow']It's blurry because it's compressed to hell.

I'm not talking about intentional blur.[/QUOTE]

I see. I watched Taxi Driver years ago and didn't like it (Scorsese is very hit or miss with me), so I couldn't remember if it was a film that had a lot of blur or jerky camera movement etc.
 
[quote name='geko29']
However, HD is HUGE in helping old movies look their best. Watching one of the classics like Casablanca, Robin Hood, or The Searchers in HD is almost a religious experience. It truly replicates the movie experience you would have gotten if you had seen these films in the grand old theatres they used to play in. For people born after 1940, this is the only chance we've ever had to see what these great films were meant to look like.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I know old movies look great in HD (have watched a few in HD on cable). I just meant it wouldn't solve problems like intentional blur, defects on the existing master of the film (scratches etc).
 
How I long for "A Face in the Crowd" in HD.
One of my top ten movies ever.

I hope they take care of it as it's the most underrated movie in American history.



When I say blurry movement, I'm talking about slight trails where there aren't supposed to be. I'm talking about just the general lack of detail every as the picture is fuzzy.
 
[quote name='dallow']I like to use that motion flow (aka auto motion plus) for TV programs.

It looks too smooth for movies though, I leave it off for films and keep it natrual.

Try turning it on high.
It looks wierd.[/quote]

i didnt even know it could be turned off. i honestly havent looked deeply into the settings..

i thought the whole point of the120hz was for movies though.. after seeing how smooth it looks, its hard to go back to the old framerate
 
[quote name='b3b0p']Zero difference if the player properly converts it to 1080i@60fps and the TV can detect the cadence and properly deinterlace it. It would be the same thing as 1080p@24fps.[/quote]

ok so does this mean that i wouldnt notice an improvement by switching to a native 1080p/24 player?
 
Motionflow stuff isn't 120Hz.
It's something else.

120Hz is to speed up the refresh rates on sets as LCDs and Plasmas still have slight lag.
Also allows for proper 24fps playback.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']ok so does this mean that i wouldnt notice an improvement by switching to a native 1080p/24 player?[/quote]

There would be no difference at all. Unless(!), your TV deinterlacer sucks (f.y.i. Most do).
 
Well it looks like I might be getting a Blu-Ray player in a week or two. Specifically I'll be getting a Japanese 20 gig. PS3. Had to sell my add-on to help cover the cost so I'll be BR exclusive for a little bit, not by complete preference or anything.
 
Welcome back everybody.
Over the CAG break many more companies were dropping HD DVD, yadda yadda yadda.

Including the premier authoring software, Sonic Stage and the biggest recordable media maker, Imation.

Effectively killing the "HD-DVD in computers" strategy Toshiba was/is touting.

[quote name='LinkinPrime']Did any of you notice that HighDefDigest.com forums are using the CAG :hd: and :br: icons? They are exactly the same.[/quote]Yeah..... I saw that too, I thought WSB made those for us?
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']Wasn't there suppose to be a HDDVD add during the super bowl?[/QUOTE]


Yeah I was waiting for it. I guess Toshiba figured it wasn't worth the money.

Edit: Some HD DVD fans on HDD are saying that it aired during halftime and that most affiliates aired local commercials instead. There is no HD DVD ad listed here though. http://www.myspace.com/superbowlads . Looks like another "saving grace" failed.
 
[quote name='rodeojones903']Yeah I was waiting for it. I guess Toshiba figured it wasn't worth the money.

Edit: Some HD DVD fans on HDD are saying that it aired during halftime and that most affiliates aired local commercials instead. There is no HD DVD ad listed here though. http://www.myspace.com/superbowlads . Looks like another "saving grace" failed.[/QUOTE]

It was, apparently, the old "what do adults do after watching the big football game in hi-def? They pop in an HD DVD of Shrek, of course!" ad, with a different ending ("starting as low as $149.99").

Ultimately, it's a meaningless gesture that wasn't seen by many. The Amazon sale on HD DVD this week will help more than that ad would.

Let's not forget the company who started the Super Bowl + commercials phenomenon. Apple computer, introducing the Macintosh in 1984 with a million-dollar, Ridley Scott directed ad. Even with all that, they didn't exactly set the computing world on fire, did they? ;)
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Let's not forget the company who started the Super Bowl + commercials phenomenon. Apple computer, introducing the Macintosh in 1984 with a million-dollar, Ridley Scott directed ad. Even with all that, they didn't exactly set the computing world on fire, did they? ;)[/QUOTE]

Apple marketing + mindless cattle = goldmine .
 
[quote name='Richlough']I think your sense of humor is in a coma .[/QUOTE]

Ohhh it was a joke? Next time remember you are posting on a forum and make it both funny and obvious. :D
 
[quote name='dallow']Welcome back everybody.
Over the CAG break many more companies were dropping HD DVD, yadda yadda yadda.

Including the premier authoring software, Sonic Stage and the biggest recordable media maker, Imation.

Effectively killing the "HD-DVD in computers" strategy Toshiba was/is touting.

Yeah..... I saw that too, I thought WSB made those for us?[/quote]

All other businesses leaving was minimal but losing Sonic Stage was another big blow. Toshiba still has the authoring tools and would need to go to a big player. For the record, I never heard of Sonic Stage until the announcement. I don't author disks really and guess that's why
 
As far as the SuperBowl... I heard they had as much as 5 commercials (2 pregame, 1 ingame, 2 postgame) and wasn't specifically looking out for it but it was on my radar. I was with a bunch of friends so having a social life always beats out any tech geekiness. I didn't catch any commericals though and then found out it was run on certain markets. Apparently it hit major cities but not, how did the guys put it? 'missed flyover states/cities'? They said it aired in the NYC/NJ area where I'm from but alas, missed it... Didn't care

HOW ABOUT THEM fuckING GIANTS?!!?! GO BLUE (and not format speak) :applause::applause::applause:
 
[quote name='dallow']They do that depending on current sales.
I've seen it fluctuate $2 up and down.[/QUOTE]

ah never noticed it before

had a couple movies on my wishlist for like 5 months now and they've been at 19.99 until recently
 
[quote name='dallow']Eli is a legend.

I'm so glad I saw that one play live, I shall always remember it.[/quote]
The dude pulled a Favre ;) and Tyree pulled a big one out of the air

I was amazed and excited. We all went nuts.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Sell out.[/QUOTE]

Did I say I sold all my HD DVD's as well? No. I plan on buying a HD DVD standalone in the near future just not immediately.
I'm just REALLY excited about playing my import PS2 games in HD under upscaling and watching most of those Sony Pictures Classics discs in HD.
Trust me that I will be getting a standalone again. I need to see "Volcano High" in HD period.
Dallow I was so happy when the Giants won. Another Yankee down. I can't understand how anyone can root for a team that in the last few years seemed to win as regular as a bowel movement. It takes some excitement out of it. Seriously if I was ever a New Yorker I think I'd be a Mets fan.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Did I say I sold all my HD DVD's as well? No. I plan on buying a HD DVD standalone in the near future just not immediately.
I'm just REALLY excited about playing my import PS2 games in HD under upscaling and watching most of those Sony Pictures Classics discs in HD.
Trust me that I will be getting a standalone again. I need to see "Volcano High" in HD period.
Dallow I was so happy when the Giants won. Another Yankee down. I can't understand how anyone can root for a team that in the last few years seemed to win as regular as a bowel movement. It takes some excitement out of it. Seriously if I was ever a New Yorker I think I'd be a Mets fan.[/QUOTE]


Don't come repping some format and then bail, but claim to be a supporter still. You sold out. You sold your HD player for a Blu Ray player. You didn't sell it to feed your kids or pay your bills, you sold it to buy the other format. Case closed.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Don't come repping some format and then bail, but claim to be a supporter still. You sold out. You sold your HD player for a Blu Ray player. You didn't sell it to feed your kids or pay your bills, you sold it to buy the other format. Case closed.[/QUOTE]

Boom! Ryback with a ferocious left hook!!

Anyway, looks like Best Buy has another HD-DVD B1G1 this weekend (limited selection). I'm always up for blowing my money on bullshit, but I'm kinda on-the-fence with this one... I don't wanna be the guy giving mouth-to-mouth to HD-DVD while it's twitching on the pavement, y'know? Might get tongued in a spastic fit, and that'd be kinda grody.

Any word on how the Toshiba Group is doing these days? Any execs commiting hara-kiri in the board room?
 
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