Game of Thrones discussion thread - Season 5 debuts April 12th

Great episode. I wonder how they're going to top that next week.  So was what Ramsey said to Sansa supposed to mean something? Pretty interesting there.

 
Even when Sansa does something right she still does it wrong.

I'm really hoping that the theories about her being a master schemer are correct.

 
Indignate said:
Even when Sansa does something right she still does it wrong.
Click to expand...
She looks smart for the short term, but really she just allied herself with a biggest monster who has long term planning skills.

Littlefinger is the villain. He killed Jon Arryn to start the whole "Game of Thrones" and then told Catelyn and the Starks that it was the Lannisters so that Ned could find out about Cersei and Jamie's kids. That got everything rolling.

He then said that the knife used to attack Bran belonged to Tyrion.

He turned on Ned and pretty much got him killed. Ned even said something like, "Thanks Petyr. You are a true friend". Littlefinger pretty much screws him over right then, and says something like "I said don't trust anybody".

When Roz was super upset after seeing the Baratheon baby slaughtered, Petyr pretty much said take a day off but if you need two I'm going to to sell you to some crazy people who abuse you, break you, and make you hook up with animals, and maybe then kill you. (Which was I think the first time in the show that it showed Littlefinger is the true villain).

He then gave Roz to Joffrey to rape, torture and kill as a gift to the young king.

Threw Lysa through the moon door.

Gave Sansa to Ramsey.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well I marathoned the season so far.

I was kinda right about Jon. It was cool to see the hound back though both were spoiled for me via yahoo.

I found the battle to actually be tense. I have an intense personality so I usually don't find anything intense, but even I was worried once the phalanx was set up. All I could think when the young stark was running is  "zig-zags mutherfucker!" I was also trying to figure out why Sansa wouldn't use littlefinger's army when they were getting ready for war.

I teared up a little when Jorah said goodbye to Dany

As far as what Ramsey meant, I took it more as he is trying to torture her to the very end by basically saying that she will always be his victim even after he is gone. But the more obvious interpretation would be that she is pregnant.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
pacifickarma said:
Most people have been suspecting that Sansa's pregnant by Ramsey for some time.
Click to expand...
While the show might do that because that's how the show is, why would Ramsay know that she is pregnant before she does? I took it as he fucked up her mind so bad that he will always be a part of her psyche.

 
Well I don't think she is but she could be pregnant and just keeping it a secret from Jon and the rest. So yes Ramsay could have known given there time at Winterfell.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
slowdive21 said:
Well I marathoned the season so far.

I was kinda right about Jon. It was cool to see the hound back though both were spoiled for me via yahoo.

I found the battle to actually be tense. I have an intense personality so I usually don't find anything intense, but even I was worried once the phalanx was set up. All I could think when the young stark was running is "zig-zags mutherfucker!" I was also trying to figure out why Sansa wouldn't use littlefinger's army when they were getting ready for war.

I teared up a little when Jorah said goodbye to Dany

As far as what Ramsey meant, I took it more as he is trying to torture her to the very end by basically saying that she will always be his victim even after he is gone. But the more obvious interpretation would be that she is pregnant.
Click to expand...
Exactly! At that distance with only one person shooting at you it should be near impossible to be hit by an arrow if you have any common sense.

But then again, the Starks aren't exactly strong in that department...

 
Dokstarr said:
She looks smart for the short term, but really she just allied herself with a biggest monster who has long term planning skills.

Littlefinger is the villain. He killed Jon Arryn to start the whole "Game of Thrones" and then told Catelyn and the Starks that it was the Lannisters so that Ned could find out about Cersei and Jamie's kids. That got everything rolling.

He then said that the knife used to attack Bran belonged to Tyrion.

He turned on Ned and pretty much got him killed. Ned even said something like, "Thanks Petyr. You are a true friend". Littlefinger pretty much screws him over right then, and says something like "I said don't trust anybody".

When Roz was super upset after seeing the Baratheon baby slaughtered, Petyr pretty much said take a day off but if you need two I'm going to to sell you to some crazy people who abuse you, break you, and make you hook up with animals, and maybe then kill you. (Which was I think the first time in the show that it showed Littlefinger is the true villain).

He then gave Roz to Joffrey to rape, torture and kill as a gift to the young king.

Threw Lysa through the moon door.

Gave Sansa to Ramsey.
Click to expand...
I think she knows what kind of monster Littlefinger really is, it was pretty apparent in her meeting with him earlier this season. Granted, she doesn't know the true depth of what he's done but she knows he's not to be trusted.

I'm thinking there's a chance he's the one being played this time. He's always ahead of the curve but I'm hoping this time he's the one who gets blindsided and by Sansa of all people.

Also, it wasn't just Littlefinger who threw the whole Game of Thrones into play. Varys also created instability by backing Viserys (and later Daenarys) pact with the Dothraki. It's not explicitly stated (in the show anyway) but it's entirely possible that Illyrio even received the dragon eggs to give to Daenarys from Varys.

That led to the initial conflict between Ned and Robert because Robert wanted Daenarys assassinated and Ned wouldn't do it. They patched things up from there but nevertheless Varys was working behind the scenes to undermine Robert.

Also, is it just me or are things looking really, really bad for the Lannisters now? I mean, be prepared for Cersei and Jamie to be dead next season at the latest, bad. If they make it through this High Sparrow business, they've still got a laundry list of enemies to deal with. There's the Starks who are now back in control of the North, there's Elaria Sand in control of House Martell now, you've got the joined armies of Daenarys and Yara Greyjoy, and their alliance with House Tyrell continues to deteriorate. They are basically against the whole kingdom at this point. Oh, and then there's those White Walkers...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
RedvsBlue said:
I think she knows what kind of monster Littlefinger really is, it was pretty apparent in her meeting with him earlier this season. Granted, she doesn't know the true depth of what he's done but she knows he's not to be trusted.

I'm thinking there's a chance he's the one being played this time. He's always ahead of the curve but I'm hoping this time he's the one who gets blindsided and by Sansa of all people.

Also, it wasn't just Littlefinger who threw the whole Game of Thrones into play. Varys also created instability by backing Viserys (and later Daenarys) pact with the Dothraki. It's not explicitly stated (in the show anyway) but it's entirely possible that Illyrio even received the dragon eggs to give to Daenarys from Varys.

That led to the initial conflict between Ned and Robert because Robert wanted Daenarys assassinated and Ned wouldn't do it. They patched things up from there but nevertheless Varys was working behind the scenes to undermine Robert.

Also, is it just me or are things looking really, really bad for the Lannisters now? I mean, be prepared for Cersei and Jamie to be dead next season at the latest, bad. If they make it through this High Sparrow business, they've still got a laundry list of enemies to deal with. There's the Starks who are now back in control of the North, there's Elaria Sand in control of House Martell now, you've got the joined armies of Daenarys and Yara Greyjoy, and their alliance with House Tyrell continues to deteriorate. They are basically against the whole kingdom at this point. Oh, and then there's those White Walkers...
Click to expand...
Sansa know Littlefinger really wants her and she knows how to use it against him. How far she's going to take it remains to be seen as well. How much he gets played also remains to be seen.

Littlefinger and Varys were responsible for the whole goings-on since Day 1, though they were doing it from different angles to the same end. Varys is always working for "what's best for the realm", which in his mind wasn't Robert on the throne. Next best option would be putting Viserys or Daenerys on the throne, which is why he worked to get them safe into Essos via Illyrio's work. That's one thing that was excluded from the books was Tyrion's meeting with Ilyrio in Pentos and his way to Valyria. Gives some nice background on that part of the story.

I think Cersei has something she's working on with Qyburn as an alternate plan since she can't use trial by combat any longer. If next week's episode doesn't end up with
the Great Sept of Baelor burned to the ground or blown up due to wildfire
, I'll be surprised.

There's a LOT to try and work out by the end of the last episode and they're going to take 69 minutes to do it, since we have a super-supersized episode as a finale.

 
Um so yeah that one reveal in the last 10 minutes that the one person came from that other person was uhhh ... an atom bomb of a reveal to say the least.  I'm still trying to wrap my head around what this means.  It's confusing because a lot of it was mentioned back in the beginning so I'm searching online to understand the reverberating implications.  But wow....

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I kind of knew about it but the reveal was still emotional and powerful. So how did 
Varys get to Dorne and back so quick? Also King in the North!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The short episode-to-episode travel times were a bit irritating, though the thing is, Iron Islands to Mereen is a much longer distance than Dorne to Mereen, as Dorne is one of the most southern points of Westeros.

Mereen to Dorne is a straight west travel, where Iron Islands to Mereen involved sailing south down most of the north-south distance of Westeros. 

 
Best season since the first one. All the pieces came together finally and every storyline paid off. That big reveal will send shockwaves once it's fully realized but for now only the audience and one person know about it. Meanwhile, winter is here and epic battles are going to break out soon, but who and when? This is getting intense!

 
I thought it was kinda meh. They basically wrapped up/set up things. I haven't read the books, but the only surprise was

potential show and book spoiler:

The baby Snow's origin. As a person who only watched the show I had to look up who the father could be. So basically his father was a Targarian/mother a stark, so he should be the true king and have a partial fire immunity.

I need to figure out who the actress was that was arya's alter ego.

Sad to see Margaery go though.

 
slowdive21 said:
I thought it was kinda meh. They basically wrapped up/set up things. I haven't read the books, but the only surprise was
potential show and book spoiler:

The baby Snow's origin. As a person who only watched the show I had to look up who the father could be. So basically his father was a Targarian/mother a stark, so he should be the true king and have a partial fire immunity.

I need to figure out who the actress was that was arya's alter ego.

Sad to see Margaery go though.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily,
While it is true he would have a superior claim to the throne than Daenerys, that's washed out by virtue of the fact that he'd still be a bastard.

His father is likely Rhaegar Targaryn who would have been king when Jaime killed his father (and Jon's grandfather) The Mad King. Therein lies the problem, at the time Jon was born, Rhaegar was married to Elia Martell and therefore those 2 children (the ones the Mountain killed) were his true born heirs.

So, for that fact, despite the fact Jon is a male heir of the Targaryn bloodline, he was still born a bastard and therefore not in line of succession. Then again, that didn't stop him from being de facto Lord of Winterfell/King in the North...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
RedvsBlue said:
Not necessarily,
While it is true he would have a superior claim to the throne than Daenerys, that's washed out by virtue of the fact that he'd still be a bastard.

His father is likely Rhaegar Targaryn who would have been king when Jaime killed his father (and Jon's grandfather) The Mad King. Therein lies the problem, at the time Jon was born, Rhaegar was married to Elia Martell and therefore those 2 children (the ones the Mountain killed) were his true born heirs.

So, for that fact, despite the fact Jon is a male heir of the Targaryn bloodline, he was still born a bastard and therefore not in line of succession. Then again, that didn't stop him from being de facto Lord of Winterfell/King in the North...
Click to expand...
I also read that:

Targarians can have multiple wives, so it is possible Rhaegar and the stark woman were also married and that he isn't a bastard.

 
slowdive21 said:
I also read that:

Targarians can have multiple wives, so it is possible Rhaegar and the stark woman were also married and that he isn't a bastard.
Click to expand...
That's the current thought of what happened.

Claims to the Iron Throne are stronger to children of heirs than siblings of heirs. If Jon is Rhaegar's legitimate son, then he would have a stronger claim to the Iron Throne over Daenerys, since she's Rhaegar's sibling, as well as a woman.

The whole "fire immunity" thing is something that is much more played up in the books, since in the books, it's one and done for the whole fire immunity thing, as it's thought that the dragon eggs absorbed the heat from the fire that spawned them more than Daenerys being immune to fire as a Targ.

 
shrike4242 said:
That's the current thought of what happened.

Claims to the Iron Throne are stronger to children of heirs than siblings of heirs. If Jon is Rhaegar's legitimate son, then he would have a stronger claim to the Iron Throne over Daenerys, since she's Rhaegar's sibling, as well as a woman.

The whole "fire immunity" thing is something that is much more played up in the books, since in the books, it's one and done for the whole fire immunity thing, as it's thought that the dragon eggs absorbed the heat from the fire that spawned them more than Daenerys being immune to fire as a Targ.
Click to expand...
But didn't Rhaegar die before his father was killed by Jamie? Therefore the line of succession would have never gone to Rhaegar's bloodline but would have stayed with the Rhaegar/Viserys/Daenerys level? Therefore meaning Darnerys has the stronger claim?

I feel like we'll never know for sure though as I'm betting either one of them is killed or renounces the throne before it becomes an issue anyway.
 
RedvsBlue said:
But didn't Rhaegar die before his father was killed by Jamie? Therefore the line of succession would have never gone to Rhaegar's bloodline but would have stayed with the Rhaegar/Viserys/Daenerys level? Therefore meaning Darnerys has the stronger claim?

I feel like we'll never know for sure though as I'm betting either one of them is killed or renounces the throne before it becomes an issue anyway.
Click to expand...
Rhaeger died at the battle of The Trident, where he did die before Aerys II. Once Robert killed Rhaegar there, he marched on King's Landing and seized the throne. I believe when it was all said and done with Robert's Rebellion, Ned came back to Winterfell with Jon Snow with him, so it's a little murky to where Jon was from the discovery at the Tower Of Joy to going back to Winterfell.

The way it works in GOT is that succession always goes down to children before it goes sideways to siblings, even if it's after the fact. I'm sure we'll hear about it more as Jon's parentage gets to be semi-public knowledge.

 
I think I rewatched episode 9 about 5 times and the season finale 3 times already. This season was so good that when there's nothing to watch I just go straight to episode 9.

 
Donut2922 said:
Ok so can somebody please disclose
who is the rightful heir?
Click to expand...
Jon's claim is stronger than Daenerys since he's the son of Rhaegar. That's if he wants the Iron throne and mostly likely he doesn't. The one thing I know for sure is that it's going suck to be a Cersei or Jamie Lannister next season.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
shrike4242 said:
The short episode-to-episode travel times were a bit irritating, though the thing is, Iron Islands to Mereen is a much longer distance than Dorne to Mereen, as Dorne is one of the most southern points of Westeros.

Mereen to Dorne is a straight west travel, where Iron Islands to Mereen involved sailing south down most of the north-south distance of Westeros.
Click to expand...
That make sense.
My brother in-law also noticed there were some green Tyrell flags in Daenery's fleet of ships as they sailed to Westeros. So I guessed Varys meet up with them at sea or something.

I thought this was pretty neat too:

4221ef9742b1d3247d9403038af0ffae.jpg


I am not sure if they mentioned in the show but in the book they said that Ned thinks Arya resembles Lyanna in appearance. Pretty good casting.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
shrike4242 said:
That's the current thought of what happened.

Claims to the Iron Throne are stronger to children of heirs than siblings of heirs. If Jon is Rhaegar's legitimate son, then he would have a stronger claim to the Iron Throne over Daenerys, since she's Rhaegar's sibling, as well as a woman.

The whole "fire immunity" thing is something that is much more played up in the books, since in the books, it's one and done for the whole fire immunity thing, as it's thought that the dragon eggs absorbed the heat from the fire that spawned them more than Daenerys being immune to fire as a Targ.
Click to expand...
I recall Jon grabbing a lantern and throwing it at a white walker while at the wall to catch it on fire. In doing so he burnt his hand. If he pops up with fire immunity how would that be explained?

 
Indignate said:
Claims don't mean anything. Its the person with the bigger army.

Dany wins.
Click to expand...
That is pretty much the world of GoT. The Targs conquered everyone and became the rulers. Then Robert got pissed and conquered everything. And now Dany is pissed and wants to conquer it back.

 
Indignate said:
Claims don't mean anything. Its the person with the bigger army.

Dany wins.
Click to expand...
Dany has no battlefield experience other than overwhelming other armies or simply using her dragons. At least one of her dragons will fall in an upcoming battle and it will shatter her army's confidence. She is also nothing without Tyrion to guide her at this point, so who is really in charge there? That said, I doubt Jon even wants the throne at this point but is more than willing to join forces to defeat the whitewalkers.

Regardless, of the three contesting the throne at this point, Jon would be the best fit as he's the most well-rounded and experienced to rule. Cersi is too bitter and cold now to rule fairly, Dany too ignorant and in constant need of men's council to lead, but Jon has always just bit the bullet and done what was needed. He is a natural leader, one the seven kingdoms need.

 
Jodou said:
Dany has no battlefield experience other than overwhelming other armies or simply using her dragons. At least one of her dragons will fall in an upcoming battle and it will shatter her army's confidence. She is also nothing without Tyrion to guide her at this point, so who is really in charge there? That said, I doubt Jon even wants the throne at this point but is more than willing to join forces to defeat the whitewalkers.

Regardless, of the three contesting the throne at this point, Jon would be the best fit as he's the most well-rounded and experienced to rule. Cersi is too bitter and cold now to rule fairly, Dany too ignorant and in constant need of men's council to lead, but Jon has always just bit the bullet and done what was needed. He is a natural leader, one the seven kingdoms need.
Click to expand...
Except Jon isn't that great of a leader. He ignores advice from those who were close with the enemy (Sansa) and acts too much on emotions, as the Battle of the Bastards clearly illustrated. Ramsey played him like a fiddle and Jon's irrational actions cost him the battle, if it weren't for Sansa going behind his back and bringing in backup.

I think the Leeroy Jenkins video pretty much sums it up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0dA9eUP85s

To his credit, he knows how to rally his troops, but how long will that last when he just keeps marching his men into certain death?

 
I respect someone that takes risks over assured victory by numbers. He fought regardless the odds. That's the mark of a warrior.

 
He foolishly ran out into battle when he should have been commanding his men.  Had he held back, then yes, backup may have not been necessary, but instead he ran out to try to save his brother (whom Sansa already said Ramsey would not let survive).  He tried to be a hero on all fronts, instead of sticking to the plan, and ended up looking like a buffoon.  And if not for Sansa, he'd be a dead one.

There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity, and sometimes they occupy the same space.

 
sp00ge said:
He foolishly ran out into battle when he should have been commanding his men. Had he held back, then yes, backup may have not been necessary, but instead he ran out to try to save his brother (whom Sansa already said Ramsey would not let survive). He tried to be a hero on all fronts, instead of sticking to the plan, and ended up looking like a buffoon. And if not for Sansa, he'd be a dead one.

There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity, and sometimes they occupy the same space.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I couldn't believe that he went and did that.

But... talk about one hell of a season. A real nail biter right up to the end.

 
Surprised this thread hasn't been resurrected. I don't remember writing my comments last year. This season seems rushed.

I have some questions from the last episode that I don't see being discussed anywhere. I'll spoiler it as well as some general comments about the episode

If they can capture a white, won't it just blow up as soon as they try to get it over or through the wall because of the ancient spells? I know the characters don't know that, but I assume that will be what happens or there is a big plot hole.

If they have a war hammer, why not just keep breaking the ice closet to their island to keep the whites away? It looks like they are on solid ground/an island

Once they started killing the whites, why didn't they light them on fire as it kills them? (but not the white walker/leaders) They could have made a protective barrier on one side and concentrated on the ones climbing.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm excited for the next episode. I'm interested to see if the Night King will be able to control his new pet

 
I feel like the twists that have happened lately were all too obvious and I agree the show is rushing to the end now. Thought this season was supposed to be 8 episodes long so caught me by surprise when the finale hit. I kind of feel like things are being played too safe now as well when you're constantly bracing for who might die next and that has also stalled. I will say that this has been the biggest payoff season after six years of waiting for everything to come together though. Some of the situations and confrontations have been brilliant, so despite any complaints it is still by far the best show I've ever seen.

It will be sad saying goodbye next year as nothing will ever replace it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top